Hunting Ultracation with neighbor

[jim Glass]

Another wild hog hunting adventure. This morning myself a 2 buddies are setting up a tree stand in a new location within my leased property. We had just entered the jungle when I could hear someone from the highway saying something to us. I ventured back out to the highway to find a man in a pickup truck swearing and threatening me. He told me I was on private property
and was trespassing. I tried to explain I had a hunting lease on the property. He said I did not have a lease and if I continued to disagree with him he was going to kick my ***. I told him to just call the Sherriff. He continued to threaten me so one of my buddies called the Sherriff. Finally the encounter heated up and the neighbor exited his truck and approached me with his fist clutched and drawn back. I was reaching for my conceal carry weapon and remembered my conceal carry class. I held up my hands and said, "look, I don't want any trouble" then went for my gun. The assailant finally stopped his advance. The gun never came out. After a few more threats and more swearing he goes home a hundred or so yards down the road.

A Sherriff deputy shows up and we began discussing the encounter. Next we hear 4 shots fired from the assailants home. The Sherriff deputy takes off running at full sprint towards the assailants home. I yelled at the officer, "better call for backup". Seconds later police cars are coming from both directions. 4 more shots are fired. The recently arrived officers are pulling
AR-15's from the trunk of their cars and running toward the assailant home.

Finally, one by one the officers leave and the last one approached myself and my 2 buddies. The officer sayed, "as far as I'm concerned, you fellas are okay hunting here". It told the officer we are not hunting where we are not welcome. I told the officer I was conceal carrying and was ready draw my gun when the assailant finally stopped the assault. All the office said was,
"the assailant is lucky not to be shot". The officer never asked for my name or anything, he just left. Never hear what happened to the assailant.

So how has your day been so far. Jim

[hunter63]

That's kinda exciting.....had a few of those over the years.......Never fun.
This is one reason I ask and get permission in writing '''every year"....and not assume.

Don't have any leases.....and have had problems with people that didn't own the land.

Even had the Game Warden....face down some property developers sales people.... that decided that they owned the flowage.......
Guess they didn't like us shooting ducks while they were trying to sell the river bank...(500ft public easement and permission for the development owner)

You are correct...Sound like y'all handled it well.......Calling the Sheriff was the right thing to do....

Ever get any information of what the shooting was all about ?

[kyratshooter]

The shooting was the redneck trying to make his point, stopping just short of aggravated assault. He just had not counted on a deputy being present when he fired his warning shots.

Welcome to sunny Florida!

Why do you think they film so many episodes of COPS down there? You can not go for a night without filling a full episode.

[jim Glass]

The shooting was the redneck trying to make his point, stopping just short of aggravated assault. He just had not counted on a deputy being present when he fired his warning shots.
Welcome to sunny Florida!


Exactly!!! The redneck was lucky I kept my cool. Probably waited to long to pull the gun out though but at least he had nothing to say about me to the officer.

I'm quite certain the redneck was on some kind of drugs. He was to far gone to be on alcohol. This was all at 9:30 AM..

After lunch a local bank got robbed.

[kyratshooter]

See, right there you have 15 minutes of programming just with your hog hunting and the bank robbery!

Just add one 5 minute high speed chase of tattooed skinny guys with no shirts and episode 7,461 is in the can.

[hunter63]

I noticed that?......
Why do all the bad guys on COPS not wear shirts?

[Rick]

Show off their physique. After all, they are on TV.

I liked the one of the guy that was wearing the fancy shoes that flash every time you take a step. Had a real hard problem trying to outrun the cops. They were with him at every turn. Go figure.

[jim Glass]

Do I have any protection with "hunter harassment" laws??

[hunter63]

That would have to be a Florida lawyer question.......?

[canid]

Sadly, with property leases and easements you tend to inherit any existing land disputes with them, well founded or otherwise.

Hunter; some of them do. I saw a few work shirts from a company I used to work for feature in a few episodes.

[hunter63]

We had on case in Milwaukee here a while back......shop lifter with pants down on his butt..took off running.
Security ran him down, pulled his pants down and sat on him till LEO's showed up.

That would have made "stupid animal tricks"....on you tube for sure.

[kyratshooter]

That would have to be a Florida lawyer question.......?

Do Florida lawyers wear shirts or just the ties?

[hunter63]

Check this out.....
http://goodhunt.blogs.theledger.com/19394/floridas-hunter-harassment-laws/

This subject of hunter-harassment was actually cover in our Hunter Safety Class....

[jim Glass]

For me to threaten another redneck attack with a hunter harassment suit may ward off future ultracations without the need to call the police.

Thinking back I'm wondering if the redneck was more concerned with us hunting on his personal honey hole. I told him I had a lease and him thinking he didn't have a lease. I did find a tree stand already on the property
that I planed on using. I'm considering hunting the property in spite of todays ultracation. I'm not the type to run off with my tail between my legs.

[hunter63]

If he gives you bad just put 911 on your speed dial.....or contact the warden.

In the past ....Had a warden call a guy to tell him he had to come out to cut the chain off his gate across an easement road to a property I was hunting......

Warden aren't against you as a sportsman...just violators.

[jim Glass]

A little follow up on this story. Another guy at the RV resort told me about a conceal carry class held at a local gun shop so I decided to attend even though I already hold a Florida conceal carry permit. Always good to have a refresher course. I told the instructor about my ultracation with the neighbor and he said
me shooting him was not justified because the neighbor did not have a weapon and I had the option of running away. I was with 2 other men so it would have been a 3:1 struggle, but what if I had been alone?

I also contacted my Illinois conceal carry instructor, a police officer, and he also said a shooting was not justified but the use of mace, pepper stray or wand would have been justified. I have pepper stray but don't always carry it.

I have read the Florida "stand your ground" law several times but it is not perfectly clear to me what it is.

One conclusion I have come to is, if you conceal carry, you better carry the liability insurance. Jim

[madmax]

Yes. Insurance. There are 2 orgs that will cover exactly what you want. And, from how I understand it from a recent FL gun law seminar, you were not justified in drawing. You acted exactly how you should have. But I can understand you getting real antsy about a strung out nut cussing and threatening.

[hunter63]

Always good advice....
Remember, 99% of all those that talk about 'CCW ballistic, and argue 9mm vs 45....have never shot anyone nor will they.

[WalkingTree]

Man...I was very confused. I thought this was about ultra something-or-other. And I couldn't figure out what cation was that it was ultra. Thought it was some fantastic vacation experience, so reading op just messed my mind up.

Ok, so altercation then.


he said me shooting him was not justified

I can understand you getting real antsy about a strung out nut cussing and threatening
I feel that folks should be able to carry arms. But I also feel that with firearms comes responsibility and discipline. Though a person might not be familiar with the ways, there are plenty of ways to safely disable a person without using a firearm. I was kinda wondering about your quickness to go right to thinking of your firearm. Don't be mad at me Jim, I'm not just trying to make a mean critical statement...but don't be so quick to just think of your gun anytime somebody is yelling and acting a fool. With some people, legally having a firearm seems to make them feel too powerful and justified and that gun becomes their go-to response instead of being able to deal with things in other ways. Don't be that guy.

[crashdive123]

Show off their physique. After all, they are on TV.

I liked the one of the guy that was wearing the fancy shoes that flash every time you take a step. Had a real hard problem trying to outrun the cops. They were with him at every turn. Go figure.

My favorites are when the perps with saggy pants start running and then within a half a block their pants fall down around their ankles and they fall flat on their faces. I LMAO every time.

[madmax]

LOL. I'm watching "Cops" right now. Great comedy show.

[jim Glass]

Man...I was very confused. I thought this was about ultra something-or-other. And I couldn't figure out what cation was that it was ultra. Thought it was some fantastic vacation experience, so reading op just messed my mind up.

Ok, so altercation then.

Thanks, I wondered why my spelling got red flagged. I tried different spelling, never got it right.

[WalkingTree]

Heh...not trying to be a grammar or spelling Nazi on you, I was just really mind-boggled though in quite a comical way.

[hunter63]

Thanks, I wondered why my spelling got red flagged. I tried different spelling, never got it right.

My spell checker is a... Dumas as well....Doesn't know what I "meant"
Sheeesh....Doesn't even know how to spell Ship....comes out ****

[Batch]

Jim, I also was thinking why would you shoot this person under these circumstances?

Would a cop shooting this guy be justified because he was verbally abusive and had his empty hand cocked back?

In every altercation you have the opportunity to have no reaction, escalate, or de-escalate. Reaching for a firearm during a verbal conflict is definitely escalating things to a lethal force situation.

If you completely disregard the value of the man's life. Not saying it has no value, just saying take it out of the equation.

If you leave and let the sheriff and the property owner sort it out. You lose what? One day of hunting most likely.

If you shoot the guy and the officers at the scene determine it is a good shoot. You will probably be taken down to the station for questioning.

My neighbor was sitting in his car after fueling up at a gas station in Okeechobee, Fl. A man ripped open the drivers side door and Jason drew his CCW and shot the man in the chest 3 times. Under Florida's law the castle doctrine definitely extends to your car and an unarmed person reaching through an open window has repeatedly been shown as justification for lethal response.

Jason was taken to the station and interviewed for over 8 hours. Did he know the guy? Did he have any prior encounters leading up to the shooting? Why did he think the guy opened his door? Did the guy have a weapon?

At the end of the interview they asked him again if he saw any weapons. He said no and then they showed him a knife the guy dropped when he was shot. It had gone just under the car a bit.

In the end it cost Jason next to nothing. He was heading home (a 2 hour commute) after a shift as a firefighter. Now he has been up another 8 hours +. But, if the officers doing the interview believed anything different, he could have been detained for arraignment. If the arraigning judge and prosecutor want to TEST the law. Well, his life would have forever been different.

Either way, his case was pretty cut and dry and he lost what would have been you day of hunting. Yours involves and altercation on the side of the road with someone who could have had as much right to be on that property as you had. The immunity from prosecution under Florida Law is for residence, dwelling or occupied vehicle. And the shooter has the burden of proof by a preponderance of evidence as recently upheld in Bretherick vs State.

As I was told many years ago when I went for my CCW. If you pull the trigger, even if it is a justified shooting. You may lose your house and all of your savings defending yourself in court. If it is questionable, a jury will decide. So, you pull the trigger because you truly believe that there is nothing else you can do.

I am just saying everybody who carries should really spend some good time pondering the consequences.

A good book to buy regarding Florida laws can be found here http://www.floridafirearmslaw.com/.

[madmax]

+1 Batch. In FL you have to prove justifiable. That always takes attorneys outside home or vehicle. That's for the criminal court. Then you have the civil court which is inevitable. Big bucks to defend yourself. Buy that book he recommends.

Here's one of the weird quirks in FL CC law. You can shoot a dog attacking your dog. You can't shoot a dog attacking you.

[hunter63]

Batch...excellent post......Thanks.
Rep sent

[jim Glass]

Yes, great post Batch

Did you hear about the theater shooting in Florida 3 years ago. A retired police detective objected to a theater patron talking on his cellphone, before the show started. The detective was struck in the face with the cellphone so the patron was shot and killed by the detective. Went to court last month and I heard yesterday the stand your ground defense didn't hold up. The detective lost, now he goes on trial for murder next.

I also heard striking a senior citizen (anyone over 65) is a felony offense in Florida. Jim

[madmax]

You're in a sticker patch with gun law. Just remember, of those 12 jurors, most will view a handgun like a poisonous snake that you carry anticipating a fight. Sad but true.

[Graf]

Exactly why I carry a copy of permission with me when I hunt someone else's land

[Batch]

Exactly why I carry a copy of permission with me when I hunt someone else's land

Exactly what my brother and I talked about today. Carry the permission in writing.

[hunter63]

Funny you should mention that.....I always ask every year even though I have had permission for 25 years.

Was hunting with the land owner....sitting in a tree line....
Different guy walks up to me with an attitude....say "Hey, I going to hunt here today....You have to get out of here"
So told him I had permission....

He says ....Yeah, but the owner told me I had it to himself.

About that time the owner who was about 100 yards away, come walking up...
Says "What's going on?'

I said to the owner...."This guy says he knows the owner and is the only one that has permission to hunt here"
Owner says "I that so?...What's the owner name?

Guy does have the correct name...and was standing there all bristling .....
The owner says..."Just a second"...
Pulled out his cell, called the Sheriff Deputy....Then said...Dispatch, You waht to send Sonny out here to the north side of my ridge field and haul this trespassing a-whole way?.

Guy took off......But Ed gave him the leinse number...so he was stopped by the Deputy and officially warned.

Sad part was,... owner saw him coming...and if the guy would have just walked on by...there was 600 acres to hunt in....No big deal
But when the guy started giving me a bad time....he came over.....You should have seen his face.

Anyway ...Point is:...
Permission a valuable thing, don't take lightly, writing with owners phone number even better
Oh....and don't lie and be an a-whole.

[jim Glass]

Funny thing is I gave a hunting buddy my original copy of the lease so he could copy it. I didn't have it with me that day. Next year I should provide copies of the lease to all those that will be hunting, only 5 or 6 people. Then everyone, me included, will be armed with a copy of the lease. I'll also lay down new rules, No smoking or drinking on the property.

Waving a copy of the lease in front of the neighbor may have avoided calling the police altogether. If the neighbor was a reasonable person we probably could have worked out some kind of deal. Something like he could hunt the property if I could use one of his 3 tree stands that are already on the property. Maybe I'll try talking to him next year. I seem to readily warm up to the local people down there. There was One local that was somewhat of an adversary. I talked to him on the phone a few times then suggested we meet up sometime. So we would meet up once a week and have a couple of beers. He was rather sad when I told him it was time for me to go back to Illinois but would resume our meetings next year. Jim

[crashdive123]

Maybe I'll try talking to him next year. I

Be careful with that. Depending on what transpired with law enforcement, he may hold a grudge for a long, long time.

[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

�айт (http://audiobookkeeper.ru)�айт (http://cottagenet.ru)�айт (http://eyesvision.ru)�айт (http://eyesvisions.com)�айт (http://factoringfee.ru)�айт (http://filmzones.ru)�айт (http://gadwall.ru)�айт (http://gaffertape.ru)�айт (http://gageboard.ru)�айт (http://gagrule.ru)�айт (http://gallduct.ru)�айт (http://galvanometric.ru)�айт (http://gangforeman.ru)�айт (http://gangwayplatform.ru)�айт (http://garbagechute.ru)
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[yellowcab]

�айт (http://laterevent.ru)�айт (http://latrinesergeant.ru)�айт (http://layabout.ru)�айт (http://leadcoating.ru)�айт (http://leadingfirm.ru)�айт (http://learningcurve.ru)�айт (http://leaveword.ru)�айт (http://machinesensible.ru)�айт (http://magneticequator.ru)�айт (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru)�айт (http://mailinghouse.ru)�айт (http://majorconcern.ru)�айт (http://mammasdarling.ru)�айт (http://managerialstaff.ru)�айт (http://manipulatinghand.ru)
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[yellowcab]

у�ло (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/4284)164.9 (http://cottagenet.ru/plan/776)прел (http://eyesvision.ru)Bett (http://eyesvisions.com)печа (http://factoringfee.ru/t/299457)Март (http://filmzones.ru/t/129650)Noth (http://gadwall.ru/t/129982)Piet (http://gaffertape.ru/t/334482)XVII (http://gageboard.ru/t/297605)Moan (http://gagrule.ru/t/193289)Autu (http://gallduct.ru/t/228269)мини (http://galvanometric.ru/t/167272)Majo (http://gangforeman.ru/t/134397)Rote (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/140698)Соде (http://garbagechute.ru/t/668780)
Dolc (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/136192)Robe (http://gascautery.ru/t/241555)Flam (http://gashbucket.ru/t/97158)Григ (http://gasreturn.ru/t/281527)John (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/294172)Dave (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/664661)Dona (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/662357)14ZB (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/397633)Соло (http://geartreating.ru/t/565651)Andr (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/296368)Omeg (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/450353)Poin (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/558354)GQPR (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/137676)Diad (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/138286)Oral (http://getthebounce.ru/t/137347)
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Laca (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/137039)Caro (http://hangonpart.ru/t/16818)Bang (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/168152)Nint (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/164469)Unde (http://hardasiron.ru/t/158444)Than (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/286331)авто (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/267135)Push (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/140128)Cerr (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/157012)Revi (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/155533)silv (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/155098)Macb (http://headregulator.ru/t/155345)молн (http://heartofgold.ru/t/156415)Alle (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/132308)XVII (http://heatinggas.ru/t/279521)
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Stan (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/280835)Anne (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/278326)Сьюз (http://kentishglory.ru/t/280381)Wind (http://kerbweight.ru/t/182097)долж (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/297195)Gran (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/163960)Futu (http://keyserum.ru/t/168954)diam (http://kickplate.ru/t/156656)Arts (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/601716)Бави (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/264233)XVII (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/297603)поко (http://kinozones.ru/film/6732)Arts (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/601784)о�но (http://kneejoint.ru/t/293712)Бубн (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/294813)
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[yellowcab]

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имен (http://scarcecommodity.ru/shop/1493269)Sims (http://scrapermat.ru/shop/1480329)Мака (http://screwingunit.ru/shop/1494861)Кузн (http://seawaterpump.ru/shop/1555994)Only (http://secondaryblock.ru/shop/1417333)КибÑ� (http://secularclergy.ru/shop/1488143)фант (http://seismicefficiency.ru/shop/338511)Тара (http://selectivediffuser.ru/shop/400510)книг (http://semiasphalticflux.ru/shop/402067)Ð*онь (http://semifinishmachining.ru/shop/1687174)меÑ�Ñ� (http://spicetrade.ru/spice_zakaz/536)меÑ�Ñ� (http://spysale.ru/spy_zakaz/536)меÑ�Ñ� (http://stungun.ru/stun_zakaz/536)возр (http://tacticaldiameter.ru/shop/483560)217- (http://tailstockcenter.ru/shop/491068)
рабо (http://tamecurve.ru/shop/498986)Vice (http://tapecorrection.ru/shop/483810)Дет� (http://tappingchuck.ru/shop/488371)Соро (http://taskreasoning.ru/shop/499775)авто (http://technicalgrade.ru/shop/1822510)Медв (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru/shop/1880993)Cust (http://telescopicdamper.ru/shop/1902040)Jujj (http://temperateclimate.ru/shop/783549)Соло (http://temperedmeasure.ru/shop/402039)худо (http://tenementbuilding.ru/shop/981287)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)Бо�о (http://ultramaficrock.ru/shop/981746)XVII (http://ultraviolettesting.ru/shop/483892)