View Full Version : Fighting knife
finallyME
09-09-2016, 10:39 AM
I am looking for a fighting knife to put on my web gear. "Why do you need that" you might ask. I don't have a reason. I will probably never use my web gear with magazine pouches. I am out of the Army. But, hey, why not?
So here are the specifications. This is a fighting knife, not a bushcraft/survival knife. It's main purpose is to stick someone who wants to hurt me. It needs a hand guard. It needs to be a decent size. It can't break when it hits bone. I have to be able to hold it with one hand with blood or sweat or rain or mud or all of those on my hands. I am not a fancy martial arts knife fighter.
I kinda narrowed my choices down to 2. Most all other choices are going to fall into these two catagories.
1. Traditional K-Bar.
2. M9 Bayonet.
There are other brands similar to the K-bar. 1095 steel.
The main difference between it and the M9 bayonet is the steel. The M9 is predominantly 420 SS. Although, OKC makes ones for the Marines that is 1095.
For fighting (or just sticking) would the 420 SS be a better steel? Will both perform about the same? Is 1095 more brittle and more prone to breaking?
Once we get away from the fighting requirement... A 1095 blade would be better at ... anything else knife related. The bayonet has a wire cutter, never really ran into that problem. The 1095 bayonet doesn't have a wire cutter. I can't mount a K-bar on an AR-15.
What are your guy's thoughts?
M118LR
09-09-2016, 11:34 AM
The OKC3S would, as you said, be better than the 420 SS M9 at all tasks that required an edge. It would still mount on your AR, but it won't mount on a Mossberg 590. Wire cutting aside, if the only intended purpose was use as a Bayonet, the M9 better fit's the description. While I love the MK-2 (Traditional K-Bar) it's rat tang makes it inferior to the OKC3S as a fighting knife and it can't be mounted as a bayonet. So your choice should be between the M9 and OKC3S. JMHO.
http://www.foundry35.com/products/ontario-knife-co-okc3s-marine-bayonet-knife?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=googlepla&variant=7346608001&gclid=COmO6cPMgs8CFQyFaQodJwUNUw
finallyME
09-09-2016, 12:06 PM
Doesn't the OKC3S have a rat-tail tang? What kind of tang do the standard issue M9s have?
A cheaper option I thought of was to take a bar of 1095 and with some grinding and heat treatment, I could make even a crude full tang knife with a big hand guard and scales. But, that is besides the point. This discussion is really about someone who wants to buy something available on the market.
I guess a question that must be answered is how important is it to have a bayonet function? For my carbine length gas system on my AR, I have a bayonet lug, but it doesn't fit correctly, like it would if it were a full length M16. So, I would have to do some type of modification... which there are options for.
If I ignored the bayonet mounting option and just looked at durability as a fighting knife (in the crude definition of the term as I have described), how much does the type of steel matter? And, in the same vein, how much does a rat tail make a difference. The K-bar has proven itself as a fighting knife. As far as I know, there aren't a lot of broken k-bar stories where the rat tail broke. Most bowie knives have a rat tail as well.
finallyME
09-09-2016, 12:17 PM
I guess this answers one of my questions.
http://board.trekkingthai.com/board/upload/photo/2012-09/1b588dfc6878b24655811cf8f4a1be22.jpg
DSJohnson
09-09-2016, 01:50 PM
K-Bar. Kind'a like a 1911, M14 or an F150 or for that matter a real GI pup tent They just work...they have and they will..Are they perfect? Nope not by a long shot...do they work...every stinking time...
You started out saying a "fighting Knife" and then added the bayonet requirement after that. Bayonets are not "fighting knives" they are a device used to turn your long arm into a pike/spear when it is time for it. It is the most primitive level of weapon there is, past a rock, and, if it doesn't sound too arrogant, or come across as being a smart a$$, I would ask of you. Create a plausible scenario for you to ever need/use a bayonet. I totally understand that there is a possibility of using one but I am looking for a plausible scenario for using one. By the way I have like, probably 15 different bayonets. Every thing from a "plug" bayonet you place in the bore of your .75 caliber Flintlock to an M-9. I just bought an OKC3S about two weeks ago off of a former Marine who had an extra from his last deployment.
So..for a "fighting knife" K-Bar
Just my two cents worth since you asked us.
kyratshooter
09-09-2016, 03:51 PM
I have read the specifications/requirements for the K-Bar and the knife was intended to stand up to anything a Marine could do to it. the testing was intense and severe.
And it is still issued to the Marines 70+ years after it was adopted. There is a reason for that. Like the pup tent and canteen cup they got that one right the first time and never had need to change it radically.
However, the American soldier has had a tradition of using privately made custom and commercial knives tied, strapped, taped and lashed to their web gear from the time of the Revolutionary War. I think I saw one of about everything made in the 1970s attached to web gear at one time or another, from dime store knives with the handles held on by masking tape to Randals. We were not Marines and they did not give us K-bars. They didn't give us bayonets either for that matter!
finallyME
09-09-2016, 04:00 PM
K-Bar. Kind'a like a 1911, M14 or an F150 or for that matter a real GI pup tent They just work...they have and they will..Are they perfect? Nope not by a long shot...do they work...every stinking time...
You started out saying a "fighting Knife" and then added the bayonet requirement after that. Bayonets are not "fighting knives" they are a device used to turn your long arm into a pike/spear when it is time for it. It is the most primitive level of weapon there is, past a rock, and, if it doesn't sound too arrogant, or come across as being a smart a$$, I would ask of you. Create a plausible scenario for you to ever need/use a bayonet. I totally understand that there is a possibility of using one but I am looking for a plausible scenario for using one. By the way I have like, probably 15 different bayonets. Every thing from a "plug" bayonet you place in the bore of your .75 caliber Flintlock to an M-9. I just bought an OKC3S about two weeks ago off of a former Marine who had an extra from his last deployment.
So..for a "fighting knife" K-Bar
Just my two cents worth since you asked us.
I asked for your opinion and welcome it! Thanks!
Now to press more out of you. :) Why is a bayonet not a fighting knife? I am not challenging your insight, I am asking for it and want to learn more. The uninitiated will look at a K-bar and an M9 bayonet and see the same thing. What makes a K-bar a fighting knife and a bayonet not one?
I had one day of bayonet training in Basic at Fort Benning, and half of that was getting smoked because we didn't follow instructions just so. :)
finallyME
09-09-2016, 04:06 PM
I have read the specifications/requirements for the K-Bar and the knife was intended to stand up to anything a Marine could do to it. the testing was intense and severe.
And it is still issued to the Marines 70+ years after it was adopted. There is a reason for that. Like the pup tent and canteen cup they got that one right the first time and never had need to change it radically.
This is the main reason I can't ignore the K-bar. It is battle tested.
However, the American soldier has had a tradition of using privately made custom and commercial knives tied, strapped, taped and lashed to their web gear from the time of the Revolutionary War. I think I saw one of about everything made in the 1970s attached to web gear at one time or another, from dime store knives with the handles held on by masking tape to Randals. We were not Marines and they did not give us K-bars. They didn't give us bayonets either for that matter!
When I got to Iraq, early in 2003, that one girl (US Army Mechanic) was taken hostage. That made me think at the time that I needed something for when I ran out of ammo. Being a REMF, I was not issued anything with a sharp edge, or even a dull edge. I went to the PX and bought a Cold Steel SRK. I strapped it to my Interceptor Body armour with zip ties. I used it for cutting open MREs and breaking up ice blocks in our coolers. I think it is a great knife, but it doesn't really have a hand guard. For a fighting knife, I want a hand guard.
finallyME
09-09-2016, 04:10 PM
Here are some pictures of the K-bar construction.
http://www.kabar.com/images/howknivesaremade_grinding.jpg
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r4/Littlelebowskiurbanacheiver/SSPX0309.jpg
The broken picture comes from someone who was batoning it. Which brings up back to the beginning. I am not looking for a knife that can be batoned, or used for chopping.
NightSG
09-09-2016, 04:16 PM
https://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/Primary/961/961789.jpg
kyratshooter
09-09-2016, 08:06 PM
I asked for your opinion and welcome it! Thanks!
Now to press more out of you. :) Why is a bayonet not a fighting knife? I am not challenging your insight, I am asking for it and want to learn more. The uninitiated will look at a K-bar and an M9 bayonet and see the same thing. What makes a K-bar a fighting knife and a bayonet not one?
I had one day of bayonet training in Basic at Fort Benning, and half of that was getting smoked because we didn't follow instructions just so. :)
For one thing, a bayonet is not supposed to be sharpened. If sharpened it is prone to sticking in the ribs or when it strikes bone. The lack of a sharp edge makes it about worthless as an all purpose knife. As DS stated, it is an extension of the body carrying a pointed instrument used for the same thing the Greeks used their spears for at Marathon or the Zulu at Rorkes Drift. Even after WW2 the British had a spike bayonet, so did the French and there is the ever famous MN spike bayonet.
A "fighting knife" is not a defined term. Different techniques require a different knife and all of them basically require an extremely sharp edge to perform as intended. In WW2 the Americans adopted that K-bar style, which is based on the traditional and ancient English butcher knife. The British adopted the Sykes Fairbun style stiletto. Army Rangers had their own pattern too.
If you only had one session of bayonet training I am sure you had zero instruction on knife fighting!
On top of that the preferred fighting styles change with time. I did not get the same instruction that was given in WW2 and Korea and I am sure the advanced training has changed since the '70s when I was in. Our training incorporated a thrust and slash technique that was intended to induce massive blood loss, not a walking dead head stab or lunge to bury the blade in the body.
We were actually encouraged to use other weapons if they were available, entrenching tools, shovels, broken rifles as clubs, any body parts lying about....
But that brings another aspect to the discussion. The first sentence I heard when our instructor opened his mouth was; "The winner of gunfight may walk away with out a wound, but be certain that even the winner of a knife fight is going to intensive care!"
So, for attachment to the web gear I would go one of two ways. If you never intend to use the web gear get a real cool knife that looks good hanging there on the rig cause it doesn't matter if it works. Or by a good utility blade if you might have to grab it and run someday.
BTW I made the combat knife I carried while in service (still have it +44 years), and I also carried an Air Force Pilots survival knife as a backup, and a 4 blade issue camp knife. We did not have the wide variety of military knives that are available today and even the military knives were only slightly modified commercial models.
I sent 4 knives to Iraq with sons #2 and #3 in care packages at their request. 2 of them Gerber multi-tools, one Gerber LMF and one of those WW1 brass knuckle trench knives (who knows why , they were Marines!).
crashdive123
09-09-2016, 09:22 PM
In lieu of a Crashblade, I'd go with the K-Bar. For the price you will not be disappointed.
M118LR
09-09-2016, 10:03 PM
As the discussion of fighting knife would take pages to unravel, here is a link: http://ontarioknife.com/fixed-blades
If a fighting style knife on a budget (that looks cool and actually works) I'd start here: http://ontarioknife.com/fixed-blades/spec-plus-series2013-09-03-16-58-57/sp15-lsa-nsn-1095-01-515-9893-detail
If you are K-Bar bound, I'd suggest the D2 Extreme. http://www.kabar.com/knives/detail/246
I own/have owned and have used the knives that I suggested. As you have not described a need for salt water corrosion as a prerequisite, the always in need of sharpening MK3 Mod 0 dive knife need not be considered. http://ontarioknife.com/fixed-blades/mk-3-navy-knife-nsn-1095-00-391-1056-detail
If the traditional K-Bar is just unavoidable: http://ontarioknife.com/fixed-blades/498-marine-combat-knife-nsn-1095-00-392-4102-detail can save you a few dollars.
Hope you notice that all the Ontario Knives have NSN's.
ps: almost forgot, DSJohnson My 12 gauge 590 has an M-9 that mounts on it, it is quite useful for close encounters.
Take a look at these:
OKC Fighting Knife: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ontario-Knife-Co-Mark-III-Trench-Knife-8155-/191923457021?hash=item2caf878bfd
Ka-Bar Dog's Head: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ka-Bar-1317-Dogs-Head-Utility-Knife-12-Inches-Fixed-Blade-Knife-1317-/351404585799?hash=item51d1587347
Those are good prices on both knives with free shipping.
DSJohnson
09-10-2016, 12:29 AM
Now to press more out of you. :) Why is a bayonet not a fighting knife? I am not challenging your insight, I am asking for it and want to learn more. The uninitiated will look at a K-bar and an M9 bayonet and see the same thing. What makes a K-bar a fighting knife and a bayonet not one?
I had one day of bayonet training in Basic at Fort Benning, and half of that was getting smoked because we didn't follow instructions just so. :)
Finally Me,
You have me beat as far as formal real bayonet training goes. I went to boot camp at RTC San Diego in July of 1974. The only bayonets I saw had been chrome plated and permanently mounted to a status board hung on the bulkhead(wall) at the Quarterdeck of the training regiment I was in. However, in my opinion, most of the modern bayonets are actually more utility tool than bayonet. I agree that structurally and visually there is truly very little real difference between a M-9 and an issue K-Bar. So in the big picture considering a modern bayonet there is not much difference.
While I was assigned to the Armory (W-6 Division) on the AS-19, the USS Proteus I started wearing a MK1 made by Camillus that a BM1 gave me. He made Chief and said that CPOs did not need or use such tools. I wore it almost every day for about 9 months and never used it for anything except cutting boxes and a coupe of pieces of rope. I am not a "Swiss Army Knife/Multi tool" kinda guy so I usually do not pick a combo tool. You asked about fighting knives and to me when I hear bayonet it is not a fighting knife. Since you asked me the difference I have been trying to sort that out.
At the time I was thinking of an affordable, dependable, proven knife that I could recommend and say without a doubt this is a fighting knife first and then a "whatever" you need it to be tool next. In my world, the men I know/knew who had actually used a knife in true hand to hand combat had a very high regard for Randall No. 1s and K-Bars, but like Kyrats has said, "In the field/at sea" I have seen just about every kind of belt knife ever made being worn or carried in some fashion.
Okay so I have tried to address/answer your question, now tell me again when you will need the bayonet function? :dissolve:
Thank you for taking the time to explain your thinking on the whole fighting knife deal by the way. Good thread!
kyratshooter
09-10-2016, 11:23 AM
The only tactical use of the bayonet I have seen in recent doctrine has been associated with "house searches" where the use of the device is geared toward the intimidation of the occupants of a house being searched more than as a combat tool.
The instructions being to offer them a look at you bayonet a few inches from their face and the women, children and old men will usually comply.
The sequence of events being rip away the courtyard gates, kill the dogs, blow off the door, throw in a concussion grenade, flood the room with troops, shove your bayonet in their face, if anyone moves stick them or shoot them and yell CLEAR!
The military version of "making friends and influencing people" and what to expect in the up-coming searches of American homes for firearms.
When I was in the order to "fix bayonets" would have struck terror in most troops. It meant your unit was out of ammo, or the enemy was about to rush you with overwhelming force to the point that you were not going to have time to change magazines. Or you were about to do the same to them. A salvation experience was had by one and all along with the offering up of intense prayers and specific deals made with the Creator.
No matter which choice you got a bunch of people were about to die in a very close, violent and messy manner, because that kind of combat never follows the pattern one is taught. It turns into a frenzied melee reminiscent of what one would expect when grabbing the tail of a Tasmanian Devil.
BTW, the most produced bayonet in modern times is probably that used on the AK rifle. If you ever examine one you will find that they have NO USEFUL CUTTING EDGE. There is a chisel grind on one side only that goes down to a dull edge like that found on a butter knife. The spine of the blade has a toothed edge for sawing rope. It looks like a knife, but is not really usable as one. Additionally, it is mounted upside down on the rifle, not in the edge down condition we are familiar with.
Seniorman
09-10-2016, 02:38 PM
I think that in a real knife fight or "encounter," the attitude and intent of the knife user is much more important than the style and manufacturer of the knife. Whatever happens is going to happen very fast and very brutally. I know of an incident in Los Angeles at Marina Del Rey where a police officer was literally decapitated by an insane man who was off his meds after being released from the insane asylum at Camarillo. The insane man used a standard, folding Buck Hunter 110. Worked for him due to his intent.
In another incident, in the following video, I seriously doubt the knifeman had any knowledge of the steel or the maker of his knife. Nevertheless, it performed very efficiently for him due to his intent.
This happened in Honduras and was filmed by a news team. If "graphic" bothers you, best to avoid this video.
https://www.full30.com/video/9030f86490b70a13d01f3244842a91c2
Goes to show what a man with a knife and "intent" can do to a person who is armed with a gun.
Enjoy.
S.M.
M118LR
09-10-2016, 10:12 PM
A long, long, long,long time ago, on continents far, far away; Frogmen armed only with MK-2's ventured into the hostile territory of aggressors armed with full-automatic assault rifles.
The object in an armed conflict isn't to allow the enemy a fighting chance. The object of a knife attack is immediate cessation of hostilities. Ambush, total surprise attach, etc instantaneous overwhelming and incontestable force is the only method that allows the attacker to survive with minimum incapacitation. The concept of a fighting knife is foreign to the lessons learned during combat survival. Fighting knives are those knives used to gain advantage during H2H combat, and H2H combat is used only as a last desperate resort. Each and every H2H training discipline has a different style of blade that optimisms the maneuvers particular to the H2H training discipline. So I would suggest that you choose a knife for your web gear that is of high utility for the intended cutting purposes that you utilize most often.
Take a look at the Gerber Strong arm: https://www.amazon.com/Gerber-StrongArm-Fixed-Blade-30-001038/dp/B00U0ILXGC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1473559826&sr=8-1&keywords=gerber+strong+arm
or other such simple and utility style of knife.
Professional Grade:
http://www.knifecenter.com/item/CRKGB/chris-reeve-green-beret-combat-knife-fixed-7-s35vn-blade-micarta-handles-coyote-brown-sheath
http://www.gerbergear.com/Knives/Fixed/Silver-Trident-Knife_06995
These would be part of the search should you really be serious in your quest.
For instructional information on the use of the MK-2, search for Michael D. Echanis. Hwa Rang Do discipline. Author of Military instructional manuals. Quite useful for use of MK-2 (K-Bar type Fighting/Utility Knife.) Your Welcome.
finallyME
09-12-2016, 10:08 AM
My grandpa was a frogman. There are a lot of things he didn't tell me. One of them was what type of knife he had. He did tell me he was the det-cord guy. His team would ride in an inflatable until they were about 2 miles from shore. Then he would sling the wraps of det-cord over his shoulder and swim in the 2 miles with only a mask, fins and swim trunks. I am 100% sure he had a knife. Someone would set the charges in the reef, and he would hook up the cord. Then they would swim out and blow up the reef so the Marine's could land. He did this on Okinawa and I am sure other places he never told me about.
finallyME
09-12-2016, 10:43 AM
For one thing, a bayonet is not supposed to be sharpened. If sharpened it is prone to sticking in the ribs or when it strikes bone. The lack of a sharp edge makes it about worthless as an all purpose knife. As DS stated, it is an extension of the body carrying a pointed instrument used for the same thing the Greeks used their spears for at Marathon or the Zulu at Rorkes Drift. Even after WW2 the British had a spike bayonet, so did the French and there is the ever famous MN spike bayonet.
I definitely never thought about this. I guess, if you really want a bayonet, then a spike would serve better in this role.
A "fighting knife" is not a defined term. Different techniques require a different knife and all of them basically require an extremely sharp edge to perform as intended. In WW2 the Americans adopted that K-bar style, which is based on the traditional and ancient English butcher knife. The British adopted the Sykes Fairbun style stiletto. Army Rangers had their own pattern too.
Yep, this is why I tried to define it in my own terms at the beginning. Since you are correct in how much knife fighting instruction I received in the military, I doubt to ever do any actual "knife fighting" where two guys stand off from each other, each with a knife, and they try and stab each other. For me, it is more "I have no ammo, they are overrunning my position, they have ammo, what do I do".
M118LR
09-12-2016, 10:43 AM
Sounds like he is a Good Man finallyME.
If you are curious?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underwater_Demolition_Team
http://www.navyfrogmen.com/WWII%20UDT.html
https://www.navysealmuseum.org/
Most WWII Frogmen were issued the Navy Utility Knife Mark II (MK2) which is commonly called a K-Bar today.
http://www.quanonline.com/military/military_reference/fighting_knives/kabarhistory.php
Just a little about H2H and frogman training during my time in service.
"Echanis developed a two-week hand-to-hand Instructor combat course sponsored by the United States Army John F. Kennedy Center for Military Assistance (USAJFKCENMA) at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. The program was authorized in December 1975 and Echanis was formally appointed the "Senior Instructor and Advisor to the USAJFKCENMA Hand to Hand Combat/Special Weapons School for Instructors" in a Memorandum For Record signed by Major Jerry C. Williams, then Chief, PSD, at the JFK Center. Six courses were presented in 1976. Echanis' combatives program was titled the "Hwarangdo Hand to Hand and Special Weapons Program".[8]
The USAJFKCENMA, then commanded by Major General Robert C. Kingston, issued formal Certificates of Participation in the "Hwarang Do/Hand to Hand Combat School" to include the Instructor Course the participant attended. Both MG Kingston and Colonel Timothy G Cannon, Chief of Staff, signed the certificates. Joo Bang Lee, founder and then leader of the World Hwa Rang Do Association affixed his personal seal to each certificate which conferred Black Belt ranking on the participant.
Echanis then moved on to Little Creek, Virginia and A.P. Hill where, courtesy of Richard Marcinko, then the commanding officer of SEAL Team 2, he taught three 2-week H2H courses for the SEALs. These courses, titled "SEAL TEAM TWO Hwarang Do Hand to Hand Combat/Special Weapons and Special Tactics School for Instructors" were attested to in a memorandum signed by LT Commander Bruce Van Heertum, United States Navy. Van Heertum took over command of SEAL Team TWO upon Marcinko moving to his next assignment in Washington DC. Van Heertum designated Echanis as being appointed "...the permanent senior advisor and head instructor for the SEAL Team TWO Hand to Hand Combat/Special Weapons/Tactics School for Instructors."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Echanis
https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Michael-Echanis-Collection-Hand/dp/0897501977
Your affection for the MK2 makes more sense since Grandpa probably was issued one during his service. If he is still with US, please pass along my Thank You for his service.
finallyME
09-12-2016, 12:18 PM
Your affection for the MK2 makes more sense since Grandpa probably was issued one during his service. If he is still with US, please pass along my Thank You for his service.
Unfortunately, he is not with us anymore. I was able to "interview" him with a camcorder a few years before he passed. I was able to then get a little more out of him. He said that before he was a frogman, he was doing guard duty on a boat in the middle of the night. Up until that point, all he and most everyone else wanted to do was "kill the Japs". While he was doing guard, he saw what looked like a torpedo go directly towards him and then it appeared to hit the hull. He thought he was done for. Then nothing happened and he realized it was probably a dolphin. After that, he said he didn't want to get the Japs... he just wanted to go home. So what does he do.... he volunteers for UDT. He wanted more control of his fate.
My dad told me that as a kid, they were never allowed to use fireworks. My grandpa would take them to a fireworks show, but they never used them at home. My dad said that my grandpa was terrified of any type of explosives. I think he figured he had used all of his luck up.
M118LR
09-12-2016, 12:35 PM
Sounds like a common failing of the frogman type? On my way back from passing the Presidential Directed physical entry examination, I stopped at the Navy Recruiters Office. Guess you could say that was taking more control of my fate. But I have a family lineage of reckless special operations volunteers, so perhaps it's just a family tradition?
Hope you took the time to peruse the H2H literature, should you decide to purchase a fighting knife it may behoove you to also include one of the training manuals on how to best utilize it. JMHO.
ps. I strongly advise that you learn to transition from and to, the reverse grip, with the sheath on the knife. Do not remove until after the first thousand successful attempts.
1120711208
Lamewolf
09-12-2016, 05:19 PM
Cold Steel ODA, and better if you can find one of the older ones with the Carbon V steel !
Lamewolf
09-12-2016, 05:21 PM
Doesn't the OKC3S have a rat-tail tang?.
So does the old reliable Kabar that folks are so crazy about !
Lamewolf
09-12-2016, 05:26 PM
I have read the specifications/requirements for the K-Bar and the knife was intended to stand up to anything a Marine could do to it. the testing was intense and severe.
!
The one I had broke at the tang right where it meets the handle while batoning some firewood for camp. It was a Vietnam era K-bar my uncle gave me when he came home from the Marines.
M118LR
09-13-2016, 10:59 PM
The one I had broke at the tang right where it meets the handle while batoning some firewood for camp. It was a Vietnam era K-bar my uncle gave me when he came home from the Marines.
I was just wondering how you felt about that piece of memorabilia being destroyed Lamewolf?
The weakness of the MKII's rat tang was further pronounced once it was subjected to salt water. Perhaps removing and replacing the leather washer grip, drying & oiling after every salt water immersion would have been better maintenance, but they were plentiful and easily replaced.
Boker also makes an M3 fighting knife and Glock makes the 78 and 81 that the Austrian Army uses.
finallyME
09-14-2016, 09:47 AM
Finally Me,
Okay so I have tried to address/answer your question, now tell me again when you will need the bayonet function? :dissolve:
I don't really know. The chance of me needing a bayonet is probably magnitudes less than needing a fighting knife. And, after consideration, I probably don't want a knife as one, more like a long spike. I can see a real need if you use a muzzle loader. Even hunting with a muzzle loader, you might have to finish the kill and not have time to reload. But, that isn't in my scope here. So, yeah, good question!
Dang it, FM. You are to blame. You! All this talk of fighting knives rekindled the urge I have suppressed for a long time. An M3 Trench knife and a Ka-Bar. I didn't have either one but broke down and called the brown trunk to deliver both. I picked up a Boker M3. It came with an M8A1 sheath and I ordered a Ka-Bar Dog's Head and a Kydex sheath. The M3 is the bees knees. I'm like a little kid at Christmas. The Ka-Bar is a fine knife. It did not quite fit the Kydex sheath so a little work with a file and a heat gun and I'm happy as a lark.
I have no idea what I will do with either of them. But! I do have a couple of grand sons that might serve one day so they can have some quality knives for their tenure if they do.
Your fault. All yours.
crashdive123
09-16-2016, 08:43 PM
Yep. You've got it bad.
M118LR
09-16-2016, 09:59 PM
Just a friendly reminder, don't attempt to transition your fighting knife too and from the reverse position without the sheath attached for the first thousand successful attempts! I'm not going to be there to transport Y'all to the emergency room if you don't heed my repeated warnings. Just because it might look so easy in the hands of a near cripple, that doesn't mean that Y'all ain't gonna be cut during your fledgling attempts. JMHO.
Wait, wait, wait. If you have a thousand successful attempts how can you NOT attempt it? As for the emergency room. First name basis with those folks. One more trip won't matter much.
kyratshooter
09-17-2016, 10:03 AM
Transitioning practice???
ER trips???
Somewhere down the line did someone forget to buy ammo?
I though we were talking about a decorator series here, something to hang on the pack to show off !!
hunter63
09-17-2016, 01:17 PM
Got a K-Bar around here some where.....Not sure or model, or tang, was a gift.....so if I get in a knife fight....I have to call "Time out" so I can go find it.
Got an old stiletto knife switch blade , made in Milano, Italy.
But..........Last time I actually had a knife in my hand for possible self protection, was my clip knife.....when a guy was trying to lure me into his car......
Don't know why....just was odd and when he reached for my hand ...I just backed away....he peeled out and left. ....Didn't have to display it...but was in my other hand.
Interesting thread though.......seems I missed out on a lot of details.
DSJohnson
09-17-2016, 01:50 PM
I have to tell you...if it comes down to a friggin' knife fight for me it is gonna go very badly for me. I am way too old, fat and slow. Too many" hitches in my getalong" to seriously even contemplate a "knife fight" I guess if I could sneak up or sucker stab someone out of the blue I might live through it. My knives are strictly tools. if it looks like I may be in a knife fight I would use my knife to cut and make a pike or spear. But that would be after I am all out of ammo, arrows and rocks.
I will run, hide and then get in the car and roll the window up before I chose to pull a knife on someone who has a knife in their had already. Seriouly I think I would rather take on someone with a staff or stick or even a baseball bat than wade in with a blade. Dang........
M118LR
09-17-2016, 05:35 PM
Now I understand how the decoration thing starts out, but when you include the knife fighting manual......man there just isn't anyway to avoid the temptation. So in the name of safety, just like any other disclaimer, leave the sheath on until you have mastered the move. Lol.
The essence of wilderness manliness is the art of accessorizing. I may not know the difference between a morel and a motoscooter but dang do I look good with the M3 Trench Knife strapped to the pack. Well, as good as I can look.
Seniorman
09-19-2016, 01:44 PM
" ... Somewhere down the line did someone forget to buy ammo? ... "
That brings to mind a night in 1959 when I was going through Basic Training at Fort Chaffee, Arkansas. We had been having bayonet training with our M1 Garands, plus knife fighting, etc. This was a three day "course" if I remember correctly. That night in the barracks, we were polishing boots and brass, cleaning rifles, etc., etc.
Our platoon sergeant came in and was talking with a bunch of us as we worked. He was "career Army," and had the CIB from Europe and Korea, twice wounded, etc. As he came by my bunk, I asked him, "Sgt. Moore, do you really think all this bayonet training is necessary?"
He said, "Well, the United States Army says you're gonna have bayonet training so you're gonna have bayonet training." Then a very slight smile came on his face and he added, "As for me, when those mother_____ers got close enough for me to stick 'em, I shot 'em."
That seemed like a plan to me. I don't get into knife fights.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v473/Leanwolf/LWcomm.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Leanwolf/media/LWcomm.jpg.html)
S.M.
crashdive123
09-19-2016, 05:58 PM
Sounds like a well devised plan.
finallyME
09-20-2016, 10:07 AM
I though we were talking about a decorator series here, something to hang on the pack to show off !!
Well, I was. I don't know about the rest of these guys.
pgvoutdoors
09-20-2016, 01:02 PM
During my ten years in the USMC the fighting knife of choice was the Gerber Mark II. This was carried on the H-harness shoulder strap and was used for a fighting knife only, NOT a utility knife. The K-Bar was used as the utility knife or more commonly the US military Camillus pocket knife that we would acquire from our engineer kits.
kyratshooter
09-20-2016, 01:33 PM
Well, I was. I don't know about the rest of these guys.
For pure display and intimidation on the harness i still favor the WW1 standard trench knife. Very cost effective too!
http://www.chkadels.com/Trench-Knife-WWI-1918-Replica-1088
PVG the Gerber combat knife had just hit the market when I was in Service. One of my buddies in a training cycle bought one and we all soon realized that it had no redeeming value outside direct combat use. You could not even make fuzz sticks with that thing! On top of that the blade on the first models was tilted about 11 degrees from the handle so it would slide under the ribs and sternum easier with a direct thrust.
We did manage to kill and skin a snake with it, which made all the other people on the Group W Bench move away from us, which at the time we considered a benefit.
pgvoutdoors
09-20-2016, 02:16 PM
The Gerber Mark II is strictly a stabbing & slicing fighting knife.
I remember one time not long after I got married I came home and found my young wife using it in the kitchen, I went through the roof! Which is a bit funny now because all I use it for these days is to cut a cake on the Marine Corps birthday.
DSJohnson
09-20-2016, 04:03 PM
For pure display and intimidation on the harness i still favor the WW1 standard trench knife. Very cost effective too!
http://www.chkadels.com/Trench-Knife-WWI-1918-Replica-1088
We did manage to kill and skin a snake with it, which made all the other people on the Group W Bench move away from us, which at the time we considered a benefit.
So Kyrats. You are a real snake eater then? I know a couple other snake eaters. Thank you, again for your service Kyrats.
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M118LR
09-20-2016, 06:14 PM
Not going to say that I agree, but perhaps you might want to read: https://www.thrillist.com/gear/10-knives-special-forces-use-military-knives-for-survival
Just remember, I don't believe that there is a fighting knife, I have no intentions of giving the other guy any chance to respond to my knife attack. Now Rambo had a very impressive decorative knife, it's just a matter of how you would like to be viewed by others.
kyratshooter
09-20-2016, 09:19 PM
Not going to do it! Nope, not tonight!
Must control, must control..
DSJohnson
09-20-2016, 09:23 PM
[emoji4][emoji4][emoji4][emoji4][emoji4][emoji4][emoji4]
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finallyME
09-21-2016, 01:13 PM
For pure display and intimidation on the harness i still favor the WW1 standard trench knife. Very cost effective too!
Knuckle dusters with a blade! I have thought about brass knuckles. I doubt I would be able to have the clear mind to put them on when I really needed them though.
I like the thinner bladed issue knife that Rick mentioned, the M3. At least that profile might be a better option. The M3 definitely speaks to me more than the Gerber Mark 2.
kyratshooter
09-21-2016, 02:53 PM
So Kyrats. You are a real snake eater then? I know a couple other snake eaters.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Nope I was not an official "snake eater", I just ate a snake one time while on a training cycle at Ft. Benning. I blame it on the guys I was in the buddy team with. They were both from freekin' Florida!
I do not take the label seriously. At that moment in time I was being trained by the "snake eaters" and some of them gagged and puked a little when we cleaned the snake.
They preferred their comfort level. They managed to have every objective on a hill with road access and when our patrol ended it would just happen to be meal time and there would be a big green truck with hot food sitting on the objective.
We learned real quick that we could send a recon team out of sight and they could climb a tree, spot the food truck, and never look at a compass for the rest of the patrol. Our training score increased dramatically, especially in land navigation.
M118LR
09-21-2016, 06:48 PM
I got to be candid, when the Navy sent me to USMC land navigation school in California we ate anything we could lay our hands upon. But they took all our implements of destruction away prior to sending us afield. The only time I got to raid the the food ambulance was during SERE training, and the folks that got caught with the peoples instant chocolate milk in thier canteens got a little special treatment. I was still hoping to get your unvarnished opinion from post #47. LOL.
@ FinallyMe - The Boker M3 is a very comfortable knife to me. The weight is well balanced. I actually like it much better than the Ka-Bar and I like the Ka-Bar. The M8A1 sheath is a great quality sheath. I was impressed to no end with it considering the cheapo nylon sheathes so many knives come with. The knife/sheath combo is about twice the weight of the Ka-Bar. But then the Ka-Bar is in a Kydex sheath, too.
finallyME
09-22-2016, 10:35 AM
@ FinallyMe - The Boker M3 is a very comfortable knife to me. The weight is well balanced. I actually like it much better than the Ka-Bar and I like the Ka-Bar. The M8A1 sheath is a great quality sheath. I was impressed to no end with it considering the cheapo nylon sheathes so many knives come with. The knife/sheath combo is about twice the weight of the Ka-Bar. But then the Ka-Bar is in a Kydex sheath, too.
I definitely need to buy one...just for the sake of owning a piece of history.....along with a K-Bar....and an M1 Garand....and an MK-2........and an .....
Just don't tell my wife!
It doesn't matter if we tell her or not. Women buy on the principle that we might think about buying something, which is justification for them actually buying it. Besides, it's always on sale.
M118LR
09-22-2016, 06:21 PM
@ FinallyMe - The Boker M3 is a very comfortable knife to me. The weight is well balanced. I actually like it much better than the Ka-Bar and I like the Ka-Bar. The M8A1 sheath is a great quality sheath. I was impressed to no end with it considering the cheapo nylon sheathes so many knives come with. The knife/sheath combo is about twice the weight of the Ka-Bar. But then the Ka-Bar is in a Kydex sheath, too.
Found an old knifehog review on the Boker M3 (made in Germany ironically). Link: http://www.knifehog.com/wp/khblog/boker-m3-trench-knife-review/
The Ka-bar & the Navy MKII are basically the same knife with a different name finallyMe. You can even purchase a KA-BAR full-sized U S Navy knife. https://www.kabar.com/knives/detail/29
What KA-BAR has to say about thier most famous knife: https://www.kabar.com/most-famous-knife
WalkingTree
09-23-2016, 04:56 AM
https://www.full30.com/video/9030f86490b70a13d01f3244842a91c2
I'm late with this comment, only just now looking at this thread.
What I see in this vid are that the officers are very tactically inept. Lots of mistakes. And they weren't "ready" anyway psychologically for a conflict. Really sucks, but they practically deserved being whooped by one guy with a knife even though they had the numbers and the guns and had him 'surrounded'.
Don't just throw a uniform on just anyone and think that's all you need. Don't be a bunch of kids playing with a rattlesnake or a wolverine. Yer gonna git bit if you don't know what yer doin.
Seniorman
09-23-2016, 12:48 PM
During my ten years in the USMC the fighting knife of choice was the Gerber Mark II. This was carried on the H-harness shoulder strap and was used for a fighting knife only, NOT a utility knife. The K-Bar was used as the utility knife or more commonly the US military Camillus pocket knife that we would acquire from our engineer kits.
I have a good friend who was a Navy SEAL, Team One, who served in Vietnam. Those listed by pgvoutdoors are exactly what my friend told me he carried in Vietnam. He said that a couple of men who collected memorabilia from Vietnam vets offered him a big batch of $$$ for the Gerber and the K-Bar but he refused to sell them. Said they were "old and dear friends" and he'd never get rid of them. :thumbup:
M118LR
09-23-2016, 06:18 PM
I have a good friend who was a Navy SEAL, Team One, who served in Vietnam. Those listed by pgvoutdoors are exactly what my friend told me he carried in Vietnam. He said that a couple of men who collected memorabilia from Vietnam vets offered him a big batch of $$$ for the Gerber and the K-Bar but he refused to sell them. Said they were "old and dear friends" and he'd never get rid of them. :thumbup:
Sure that Navy guy didn't refer to it as a Navy MK II instead of a Ka-bar? Got to be careful what state you are in if your toting the Gerber Mark II.
Seniorman
09-23-2016, 07:44 PM
Sure that Navy guy didn't refer to it as a Navy MK II instead of a Ka-bar? Got to be careful what state you are in if your toting the Gerber Mark II.
Yes, it was the Gerber Mark II with the slightly curved handle. My friend showed it to me once along with his K-Bar. Both looked used, but both were razor sharp. He was not carrying it around after he got out of the Navy. He kept it in a drawer at home. Yeah, California doesn't allow a "dagger or dirk" to be carried, but does not forbid ownership. I don't imagine my friend worried too much about what knife he was carrying while in Vietnam. :laugh::thumbs_up:
S.M.
I'm usually in a state of euphoria so I should be good.
DSJohnson
09-23-2016, 08:35 PM
I tend to change states from time to time. That gas to liquid phase can be very vexing
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crashdive123
09-23-2016, 08:56 PM
I'm usually in a state of euphoria so I should be good.
That beats my state of confusion.
Wow, DS. I can actually be solid, liquid and gas all at the same time. Mostly gas, though.
hunter63
09-24-2016, 11:59 AM
Usually the gas to liquid state is followed by a hardy........ "Oh Ship!"
All this knife fight stuff give me the willie's....
The term "fight" is the catch...as it involves 2 or more people....and as has been pointed out....the "winner" seems to be the "Less of a loser"?
Unless of course it would involve the practice of flipping it around, with out the sheath as also stated.....so for me.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mur-c5IiWJI
M118LR
09-24-2016, 02:50 PM
Perhaps the State of Intoxication?
The reference to the U.S.N. MARK2 was about the "KA-BAR".
1. http://www.quanonline.com/military/military_reference/fighting_knives/mk2.html
2. http://www.quanonline.com/military/military_reference/fighting_knives/camillus.html
3. http://ontarioknife.com/fixed-blades/498-marine-combat-knife-nsn-1095-00-392-4102-detail
4. https://www.kabar.com/most-famous-knife
The Gerber MARK II is double-edged and they also where Government Issued. (a little history)
1. http://www.gerbergear.com/Knives/Fixed/Mark-II-Knife_22-01874
2. http://militarycarryknives.com/DateInfo.htm
Opps: forgot the current NSN/Issue version of the Gerber MARK II, the Ontario SP-15 LSA: http://ontarioknife.com/fixed-blades/sp15-lsa-nsn-1095-01-515-9893-detail
kyratshooter
09-24-2016, 10:32 PM
Why would anyone read all that when the Indy video says everything needed?
M118LR
09-25-2016, 05:57 PM
Perhaps it was due to this thread being posted in the blade/knife section instead of the N-frame S&W section? So here is a little reading for the video generation: http://www.indygear.com/igguns.html
kyratshooter
09-26-2016, 12:33 PM
The longer I remain on computer forums the more I understand why the leaders in WW1 kept sending men armed with bayonets "over the top" into machine-gun fire.
M118LR
09-26-2016, 01:30 PM
If you got an hour or so to kill on a rainy afternoon, the US Army developed a bayonet training film in 1938: https://archive.org/details/TF-25
kyratshooter
09-26-2016, 02:08 PM
It IS a rainy afternoon.
So I am using my time wisely and casting buckshot.
DSJohnson
09-26-2016, 02:16 PM
Kyrats,
What do you use your buckshot for mostly? Oklahoma will not let me use it for any hunting, even on wild pigs.
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kyratshooter
09-26-2016, 02:36 PM
Kyrats,
What do you use your buckshot for mostly? Oklahoma will not let me use it for any hunting, even on wild pigs.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Mostly against guys with knives!
TBH I have lately been training several new shooters using home defense shotguns. Firing some buckshot at known ranges, and duplicating the ranges inside their homes is very enlightening in a "mythbuster" sort of way.
Most of the shooting is using #8 Walmart loads, but I also like for them to pattern their shotguns at known yardage using buckshot since that is what most of them intend to use in emergencies. You use it up quick when firing 20-30 shells at a time, and commercial rounds are expensive.
I load a lot of #4 buckshot (24 caliber) for my own use and it is small enough to pattern really well out to 30-40 yards for small game out of a full or modified choke. It is much like throwing an entire 17 round tube magazine of .22lr at the poor critter in one shot.
Works great on 'yotes and other big varmints at "out to the corner of the yard" range with less residual damage than a rifle round.
#4 buckshot is what I keep stuffed in the magazine of whatever I have by the door.
With this #00 mold I may try a mixed load of 6 #00 and a dozen #4, but that will take some range work to finalize.
M118LR
09-27-2016, 01:06 PM
Mostly against guys with knives!
Perhaps a picture is worth a thousand words?
Batch
09-27-2016, 06:28 PM
My 590 has a bayonet lug. Not an accessory I use though.
Seniorman
09-28-2016, 12:41 PM
My Ruger GB Mini-14 has a bayonet lug so I can do a drive-by bayoneting. (Maybe I should buy a bayonet??? :devil2: )
S.M.
hunter63
09-28-2016, 01:19 PM
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/hunter63/dazy-1.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/hunter63/media/dazy-1.jpg.html)
M118LR
09-28-2016, 06:45 PM
Y'all got me feeling sorry for poor finallyMe, takes the time to create a post in the General Knives & Blades section and at best it ends up as what bayonet hangs on what shotgun.
Anyone recall where he asked for a decorative blade to hang on his backpack, and look cool?
kyratshooter
09-28-2016, 06:56 PM
Hey! Hunters offering has every cool thing you can hang on a gun present, plus a bayonet!
He wins on points alone.
I sure hope that thing isn't imported. It would never pass the 922r regs.
Desert Rat!
09-28-2016, 08:25 PM
Thats what I want on my red ryder, but I think I'd need more laser's and a bigger flashlight!
hunter63
09-28-2016, 09:45 PM
Y'all got me feeling sorry for poor finallyMe, takes the time to create a post in the General Knives & Blades section and at best it ends up as what bayonet hangs on what shotgun.
Anyone recall where he asked for a decorative blade to hang on his backpack, and look cool?
He will be OK......He knows how this all works....and probably making a sandwich while the rest of us chuck and jive......then get back into the fray, after a bit....
Right FM?
kyratshooter
09-29-2016, 12:52 AM
It's past 10pm, FM is in bed asleep, he has to get up and work tomorrow!
He will be back after a while.
I have to know. Do you go to bed late or get up early? 12:52 a.m.?
madmax
09-29-2016, 06:13 AM
I'm amazed this subject went 5 pages.
Lamewolf
09-29-2016, 07:16 AM
I was just wondering how you felt about that piece of memorabilia being destroyed Lamewolf?
The weakness of the MKII's rat tang was further pronounced once it was subjected to salt water. Perhaps removing and replacing the leather washer grip, drying & oiling after every salt water immersion would have been better maintenance, but they were plentiful and easily replaced.
Sure made me wish I had just put it away to keep, but a knife is no good collecting dust !
finallyME
09-29-2016, 09:42 AM
It's past 10pm, FM is in bed asleep, he has to get up and work tomorrow!
He will be back after a while.
Yeah! I have to actually work in the morning...... or read this forum instead of working.
finallyME
09-29-2016, 09:43 AM
I'm amazed this subject went 5 pages.
A long time ago, I changed my setting to show more posts in a thread on one page. This is page three for me.
finallyME
09-29-2016, 09:59 AM
Y'all got me feeling sorry for poor finallyMe, takes the time to create a post in the General Knives & Blades section and at best it ends up as what bayonet hangs on what shotgun.
Anyone recall where he asked for a decorative blade to hang on his backpack, and look cool?
I wouldn't worry too much. I have been here long enough. Plus, I have derailed many threads myself. I am happy that I got a lot of great information for the most part from many of you. Now I have a great place to either research, or just make a decision. Every gear choice is a compromise, and even then, it will change over time.
M118LR, feel free to make jokes and have fun on this thread.
Anyone recall where he asked for a decorative blade to hang on his backpack, and look cool?
No, I didn't specifically ask this. However, I do understand the reality. When I went to Iraq, I wasn't given any knife. I thought I needed one, so off to the PX. I bought a Cold Steel SRK. I strapped it to my Interceptor and carried it everywhere. I used it to break up ice blocks and cut open MREs. It was mostly a decoration on my body armor. Now, I am not even in a war time scenario. This is a survival forum, so I am in the process (it is a long process, taking years) of putting together a "fighting load" for my AR15. You know, just in case the zombies come, or there is civil unrest, or some other reason. Not only am I making one for me, but for my kids too. I have 2 teenagers, and 4 more kids that will be teenagers. I figure my kids can help defend the homestead as much as I can. So, whatever I choose as far as a fighting knife, will probably be a decoration on a belt, at least I hope so. Of course, there is the small probability that I will actually have to use it in a fighting role, hence the thread. Ultimately I would like to get one that will do the job, if it ever had to. My solution will probably be that I make my own. It will be a lot cheaper to buy a bar of 1095 and cut out 10 blanks, put a hand guard on them and some scales. They don't have to be pretty, just functional. However, design is critical. That is where this thread comes in.
Another reason I made the thread is for others. I might not be going to war, but there are people that will be, and might find this thread in their research for the best fighting knife. I think everyone here has made some great contributions to the discussion.
At ease, carry on!
tjwilhelm
09-29-2016, 10:30 AM
LOL! Yup, 5 pages, and I guess I'll go next to keep it growing.
IMHO, the best post in this thread was kyratshooter's comments, back on page 1. As he sensibly stated, the winner of a knife fight will likely end up in the ER. Thus, it seems to me, the best time to use a fighting knife is against an unarmed assailant. If I need to defend against someone who has a knife, I want to keep them at a distance. Thus, for knife fighting, I'd choose a katana, or a machete, with a 2' fighting stick in the other hand.
kyratshooter
09-29-2016, 11:17 AM
I have to know. Do you go to bed late or get up early? 12:52 a.m.?
Old man with a messed up circadian rhythm.
Comes from working 2nd shift through college and having an 18 hour wake cycle with 7 hour sleep cycle. I can not remember the last time I went to sleep before midnight. I go to sleep progressively one hour latter each night until about once a week I am up all night and never go to sleep that day.
Many of my posts are made at 2-3-4am. I have noticed others here with the same activity pattern.
madmax
09-29-2016, 11:29 AM
I resemble that remark.
kyratshooter
09-29-2016, 12:00 PM
I consider it a sign of extreme intelligence and it allows me to post remarks of infinite wisdom for the "normal people" to discover when they wake up right after I just wet to sleep.
Just kidding. It has been a plague on my life and insured that I spent most of my waking and working hours suffering from sleep deprivation.
It was one of the major factors in my decision to retire when I was "still healthy" and most thought I should have continued working. Somehow the anticipated age for retirement has been extended, in my group of friends, to age 75 or 80!
They see me as a young 66 year old wasting my life sleeping until noon and staying up till all hours.
madmax
09-29-2016, 01:40 PM
My friends have been giving me crap for retiring at 50 for years.
suck it. I earned it.
kyratshooter
09-29-2016, 05:56 PM
I feel the same way.
I had a friend ask me what it would take for me to go back to work?
I told him;
A job I absolutely loved doing.
Set my own hours and days off and not one minute more than 40 hours a week.
$100k salary.
His reply was the classic "you don't ask for much do you?"
I told him I had not asked for anything he just wanted to know what it would take for me to go back to work! That was what it would take.
Some people seem to thin we owe them an explanation for our actions. Sorry, I explained everything to everyone while I was working, I don't have a boss to answer too any more, and certainly not to them.
M118LR
09-30-2016, 06:30 PM
Just imagine how ticked your heirs are going to be when they found out you let say 16 years at half that rate of pay ($800,000.xx) go to waste, without even the investment return, before they even had a chance to spend it. Tee-hee.
Lamewolf, if it's any consolation only one of all the carbon-steel knifes I was ever issued is still around today. It's the last Naval Aircrew Survival Knife (aka AFSK) I was issued, and the salt water exposure has limited it's current use to a decoration on an Old LPA/SVU-2. The other survivors, MK3 mod0 and M11 EOD, couldn't hold an edge long enough to be actually usable as a knife. But they darn sure are salt water resistant.
finallyMe, the best knife for those going to War is usually the Government Issued one, (nowadays most likely a multi-tool) it shall be constantly abused with a minimal amount of maintenance and only has to last as long as it takes to get back HOME. Odds are that it will be swapped around and not be the same serial as the one issued Originally anyway.
When it comes to knife usage during combat, well a knife is going to accomplish whatever task the user needs it for, or the knife will die trying. The Government has more knives, the most important thing is that the user makes it HOME. JMHO.
finallyME
10-19-2016, 10:21 AM
Just imagine how ticked your heirs are going to be when they found out you let say 16 years at half that rate of pay ($800,000.xx) go to waste, without even the investment return, before they even had a chance to spend it. Tee-hee.
Just remember, you want your kids to be sad when you die, not happy. Spend it all before you go. :)
M118LR
10-19-2016, 10:33 AM
Just remember, you want your kids to be sad when you die, not happy. Spend it all before you go. :)
I already have that spend it all billet covered finallyMe, I'm Married! :lol:
Wildthang
10-19-2016, 12:42 PM
The perfect fighting knife is a .357 Magnum with a 6" barrel, and a tiny chrome knife inlayed in the walnut grips. Just my opinion:smartass:
finallyME
10-19-2016, 04:44 PM
I already have that spend it all billet covered finallyMe, I'm Married! :lol:
After my grandmother passed, my grandfather essentially went on a spending spree and just bought whatever the heck he wanted. But yeah, my wife and kids are doing a pretty good job of making sure I don't have anything left when I die.
M118LR
10-19-2016, 06:29 PM
After my grandmother passed, my grandfather essentially went on a spending spree and just bought whatever the heck he wanted. But yeah, my wife and kids are doing a pretty good job of making sure I don't have anything left when I die.
Just wait until the Grandchildren get in the act, everything you thought the wife might save when it was only "THE CHILDREN" goes right out the window.
It wasn't unheard of to sleep in a tent at Disney Fort Wilderness when it was just us & "THE CHILDREN", now that the Grandchildren are involved it has to be a couple of cabins.
WalkingTree
10-20-2016, 05:52 AM
The perfect fighting knife is a .357 Magnum with a 6" barrel, and a tiny chrome knife inlayed in the walnut grips.
:lol: :thumbup:
radforest
11-07-2016, 01:44 PM
Just a thought, how long have the Marines used the KBar? Sounds like a good choice to me.
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DSJohnson
11-07-2016, 02:10 PM
Just a thought, how long have the Marines used the KBar? Sounds like a good choice to me.
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The Marines "adopted" it in 42..... So 74 years...more or less
M118LR
11-30-2016, 07:52 PM
The Marines "adopted" it in 42..... So 74 years...more or less
I was just wondering what year the USMC replaced it with the OKC Bayonet?
Distribution began in 2003.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OKC-3S_bayonet
M118LR
11-30-2016, 08:38 PM
Distribution began in 2003.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OKC-3S_bayonet
Why is it that all the good toys got distributed years after I ran out of service time?????????????
All we got were leftover WWI-WWII-Korean conflict items, even the chow??????????
Gauge0317
11-30-2016, 08:58 PM
This knight also be something you could be interested in.
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M118LR
11-30-2016, 09:57 PM
This knight also be something you could be interested in.
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http://www.gerbergear.com/Activity/Defend/Knives/Mark-II-Knife_22-01874N
Perhaps a simple upgrade?????????
Gauge0317
11-30-2016, 10:22 PM
I'm not a huge fan of Gerber knives, however, yea just make sure your picking a knife for the right job bud.
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M118LR
11-30-2016, 11:59 PM
I'm not a huge fan of Gerber knives, however, yea just make sure your picking a knife for the right job bud.
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Not to ask you to reflect, but would it be of any interest if I mentioned that bud was prerequisite course before this Old Frogman was allowed into USMC 1st Division rifle training? (Old Skool 8541 secondary USMC MOS) Some might have 17 prior to 1987, but all the TEAM's got disbanded in 83, although you are quite right to caution me. But I think I was once able to wield a proper knife. Even if it was long long long ago on Continents far far away. JMHO.
alaskabushman
12-01-2016, 12:51 AM
If you owned an SRK and liked it, but want a Ka-Bar, maybe you'll like the best of both worlds...
https://www.knifecenter.com/item/CS39LSFD/cold-steel-39lsfd-leatherneck-sf-fixed-d2-blade-griv-ex-and-kray-ex-handles
M118LR
12-01-2016, 09:56 AM
That's a really good recommendation in my opinion alaskabushman. Got to give you a little rep for searching out a truly workable compromise. BZ
alaskabushman
12-02-2016, 01:42 AM
Thanks, but I've been a Cold Steel fan for many years, I didn't really do much research...:detective:
Does look like a serviceable knife.
WalkingTree
12-06-2016, 08:26 AM
http://www.gerbergear.com/Activity/Defend/Knives/Mark-II-Knife_22-01874N
That handle looks slippery. Is it?
M118LR
12-06-2016, 09:12 AM
That handle looks slippery. Is it?
It's a specialty knife Walking Tree, it's not designed to adhere to the hand like a normal cutting knife. It's more like a miniature foil and held in a firmer grip while stabbing. So when compared to today's rubber like coated knife handles, it will be slippery. It can be knurled (preferred) for brown/saltwater retention, or you could dip it in one the multitude of rubber like tool handle coatings but that will detract from it's primary purpose.
kyratshooter
12-06-2016, 12:12 PM
Back when they first started making them the handle was textured like sand paper.
The serated portion was done in a more fine pattern too.
The blade was also angled from the handle about 11 degrees so it would clear the ribs and slide up to the heart if you stuck it just below the sternum or under the short ribs in the back.
It was pretty much a single purpose sentry removal tool and difficult to use as a utility knife. Wound up being more a collectors item than anything.
finallyME
12-06-2016, 01:50 PM
Also the hand guard is there to keep the hand from sliding forward when stabbing hard.
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инфо (http://tamecurve.ru)инфо (http://tapecorrection.ru)инфо (http://tappingchuck.ru)инфо (http://taskreasoning.ru)инфо (http://technicalgrade.ru)инфо (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)инфо (http://telescopicdamper.ru)инфо (http://temperateclimate.ru)инфо (http://temperedmeasure.ru)инфо (http://tenementbuilding.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)инфо (http://ultramaficrock.ru)инфо (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)
yellowcab
04-02-2026, 09:54 PM
стал (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/3860)256.5 (http://cottagenet.ru/plan/352)черн (http://eyesvision.ru/lectures/117)PERF (http://eyesvisions.com)опис (http://factoringfee.ru/t/1417721)Char (http://filmzones.ru/t/1382541)Касп (http://gadwall.ru/t/1579937)«Сою (http://gaffertape.ru/t/1351066)Mirc (http://gageboard.ru/t/1241063)Circ (http://gagrule.ru/t/1040089)Малы (http://gallduct.ru/t/1641788)дино (http://galvanometric.ru/t/1659211)Gree (http://gangforeman.ru/t/1679833)Flut (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/1703077)золо (http://garbagechute.ru/t/1711889)
АПНо (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/1459216)адап (http://gascautery.ru/t/1761920)наро (http://gashbucket.ru/t/1628616)текс (http://gasreturn.ru/t/1751755)Сиби (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/1480855)Zone (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/1859182)укрб (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/1708257)Фюло (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/1381863)Тара (http://geartreating.ru/t/1379437)Коро (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/1377867)поко (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/1496798)Very (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/1554619)Stor (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/1553995)*оди (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/1565288)Лига (http://getthebounce.ru/t/1328240)
Alex (http://habeascorpus.ru/t/1385173)Мари (http://habituate.ru/t/1376014)Баши (http://hackedbolt.ru/t/1373174)Repr (http://hackworker.ru/t/1685698)CD-д (http://hadronicannihilation.ru/t/1354620)Берр (http://haemagglutinin.ru/t/1369464)Тер- (http://hailsquall.ru/t/1374552)Наза (http://hairysphere.ru/t/1379275)Зарв (http://halforderfringe.ru/t/1379900)Vite (http://halfsiblings.ru/t/1551125)Alex (http://hallofresidence.ru/t/1433727)Моро (http://haltstate.ru/t/1579677)Бубе (http://handcoding.ru/t/1564773)Midd (http://handportedhead.ru/t/1700714)Phil (http://handradar.ru/t/1569257)
LOVE (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/1764505)НОВИ (http://hangonpart.ru/t/1387047)крит (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/1377989)Зака (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/1248368)капи (http://hardasiron.ru/t/1241290)Соде (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/1350795)Soul (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/1360395)Кора (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/1346030)Черн (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/1478498)Four (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/1548194)Slee (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/1548230)Enjo (http://headregulator.ru/t/1548233)допо (http://heartofgold.ru/t/1645148)Лысе (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/1375957)Кова (http://heatinggas.ru/t/1587605)
Хаса (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/1345738)лесо (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/855533)(Пер (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/1246608)XVII (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/1695534)XVII (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/1246475)изуч (http://jobstress.ru/t/1403448)Лонд (http://jogformation.ru/t/1303177)унив (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/1384289)John (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/1374586)эшел (http://journallubricator.ru/t/1586658)*ойз (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/1356366)Милю (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/1353875)Павл (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/1251539)Прод (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/1242417)лиши (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/1253558)
Глам (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/1182317)Богр (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/1245185)Wink (http://kentishglory.ru/t/1346533)XVII (http://kerbweight.ru/t/1378558)Гонч (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/1308730)собы (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/1240929)Doro (http://keyserum.ru/t/1385286)Drea (http://kickplate.ru/t/1662864)Шенк (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/1582883)Ламб (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/1376275)left (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/1701673)Сере (http://kinozones.ru/film/6308)язык (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/1379866)Blac (http://kneejoint.ru/t/1407094)Thou (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/1764455)
Лэнд (http://knockonatom.ru/t/1466623)опуб (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/1565342)Zone (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/1549728)Zone (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/1548533)Jewe (http://laborracket.ru/t/1712803)Gorg (http://labourearnings.ru/t/1713360)Zone (http://labourleasing.ru/t/1549634)Ната (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/1253559)Erns (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/1378748)Крас (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/1642822)Сущи (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/1582489)Шохи (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/1328901)Zone (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/1193157)стих (http://laggingload.ru/t/1308801)конт (http://laissezaller.ru/t/1327954)
Мусл (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/1308932)Minh (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/1567124)Zone (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/1783889)служ (http://lamphouse.ru/t/1350961)межд (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/1245300)Штор (http://lancingdie.ru/t/1225091)TOTe (http://landingdoor.ru/t/1230976)Zone (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/1711686)Аста (http://landreform.ru/t/1346691)Муль (http://landuseratio.ru/t/1279509)Jame (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/1382540)лату (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1160398)алта (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/589142)Powe (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/108)хоро (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/590081)
yellowcab
04-02-2026, 09:55 PM
OPAL (http://laterevent.ru/shop/1178407)Gore (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/452038)Sosp (http://layabout.ru/shop/451677)Scou (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/129580)Core (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/105394)Pinn (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/454080)пало (http://leaveword.ru/shop/454249)Mist (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/154912)3966 (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/305721)ZENI (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/175351)Wind (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/145917)Teen (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/269156)SUBA (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/159775)AUTO (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/159652)CITR (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/613519)
мета (http://manualchoke.ru/shop/597967)Disg (http://medinfobooks.ru/book/530)trac (http://mp3lists.ru/item/6044)Spor (http://nameresolution.ru/shop/469819)инст (http://naphtheneseries.ru/shop/104644)игру (http://narrowmouthed.ru/shop/460733)авто (http://nationalcensus.ru/shop/468941)демо (http://naturalfunctor.ru/shop/100315)Nick (http://navelseed.ru/shop/100825)текс (http://neatplaster.ru/shop/454513)Micr (http://necroticcaries.ru/shop/161882)Wind (http://negativefibration.ru/shop/185296)Арти (http://neighbouringrights.ru/shop/446340)Sove (http://objectmodule.ru/shop/108566)Redm (http://observationballoon.ru/shop/10166)
DeLo (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/98335)Shav (http://oceanmining.ru/shop/570582)труб (http://octupolephonon.ru/shop/143168)Афан (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/147905)Real (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/200641)Ауди (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/147637)Sand (http://onesticket.ru/shop/578151)Сухо (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/580069)Стар (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/681935)Лит* (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/680596)Воск (http://palmberry.ru/shop/321795)Jewe (http://papercoating.ru/shop/581466)одеж (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/685459)этик (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1166830)друг (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1166880)
*озе (http://partfamily.ru/shop/1165859)Clau (http://partialmajorant.ru/shop/1168676)аппа (http://quadrupleworm.ru/shop/1538687)(МИФ (http://qualitybooster.ru/shop/357014)*аше (http://quasimoney.ru/shop/593919)Kind (http://quenchedspark.ru/shop/594470)Vien (http://quodrecuperet.ru/shop/1044094)2904 (http://rabbetledge.ru/shop/1072110)Негр (http://radialchaser.ru/shop/175575)Гусь (http://radiationestimator.ru/shop/476617)Maus (http://railwaybridge.ru/shop/512282)МГор (http://randomcoloration.ru/shop/511213)инди (http://rapidgrowth.ru/shop/738068)Stan (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru/shop/1077172)Стар (http://reachthroughregion.ru/shop/291188)
Them (http://readingmagnifier.ru/shop/480668)Mike (http://rearchain.ru/shop/639009)Catw (http://recessioncone.ru/shop/515299)Фуру (http://recordedassignment.ru/shop/879519)FIFA (http://rectifiersubstation.ru/shop/1052968)Кура (http://redemptionvalue.ru/shop/1061489)Хатк (http://reducingflange.ru/shop/1676921)авто (http://referenceantigen.ru/shop/1692796)объе (http://regeneratedprotein.ru/shop/1756911)Deca (http://reinvestmentplan.ru/shop/121745)Сиро (http://safedrilling.ru/shop/1812886)Воро (http://sagprofile.ru/shop/1052695)авто (http://salestypelease.ru/shop/1065604)Соло (http://samplinginterval.ru/shop/1422913)Улья (http://satellitehydrology.ru/shop/1461126)
Покр (http://scarcecommodity.ru/shop/1483128)перс (http://scrapermat.ru/shop/1461139)Чехо (http://screwingunit.ru/shop/1493076)Воро (http://seawaterpump.ru/shop/1256708)Гроз (http://secondaryblock.ru/shop/264122)стер (http://secularclergy.ru/shop/305147)Липс (http://seismicefficiency.ru/shop/110452)Will (http://selectivediffuser.ru/shop/398536)Спир (http://semiasphalticflux.ru/shop/399482)Иллю (http://semifinishmachining.ru/shop/460064)Powe (http://spicetrade.ru/spice_zakaz/108)Powe (http://spysale.ru/spy_zakaz/108)Powe (http://stungun.ru/stun_zakaz/108)flas (http://tacticaldiameter.ru/shop/481938)слуш (http://tailstockcenter.ru/shop/489335)
Astr (http://tamecurve.ru/shop/475556)Andr (http://tapecorrection.ru/shop/482202)Crad (http://tappingchuck.ru/shop/485800)Гриз (http://taskreasoning.ru/shop/498078)Garn (http://technicalgrade.ru/shop/1819711)Norm (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru/shop/1875979)Sher (http://telescopicdamper.ru/shop/642046)Жуко (http://temperateclimate.ru/shop/308085)Elec (http://temperedmeasure.ru/shop/399449)Нефе (http://tenementbuilding.ru/shop/976601)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)Сива (http://ultramaficrock.ru/shop/979538)Форм (http://ultraviolettesting.ru/shop/482336)
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