What advice would you give to someone lost in the wilderness?

[Tarotb]

Hi,

I'm hoping some of you might be able to help. I'm writing a story in which someone ends up lost in the wilderness following a plane crash.

I'd like to start the story with my character making brief contact with the authorities via a miraculously intact radio, but for story reasons, the area they're in is too remote for rescue; the character has to get to somewhere they can be extracted, but since the radio is part of the plane, they can't bring it with them.

In this situation, what would you tell my character? The journey should take about 12 days and I've already decided to direct them towards a river, which isn't the most direct route back, but will give them access to clean water for most of their journey. One thing I'm not certain of, is how far someone in reasonable health can walk in a day; I know that over uneven terrain the average walking pace is about 2.5mph but that doesn't help a lot with distance, or suggest when the character should take breaks?

Because they were a scout, the character will happen to have a knife, and very basic survival skills, but aside from that they're not prepared, although they will find the pilot's map and compass. The terrain will be rough, but relatively flat, with interspersed trees and early autumn/fall weather.

Thank you for reading this far, and, hopefully, for your help.

Tarot

[hunter63]

Hunter63 saying Hey and Welcome.
There is an intro section to say Hello at:
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?14-Introductions

I would tell them (more than one) to sit tight....with the radio.....
I don't think there is any reasonable scenario where they can't be rescued.
Quote>
The terrain will be rough, but relatively flat, with interspersed trees and early autumn/fall weather.
Quote<
To attempt self rescue at this point is not a serious consideration.

[Tarotb]

Hunter63 saying Hey and Welcome.
There is an intro section to say Hello at:


Thank you, and my apologies; I didn't realise that was a requirement, but I've done so now.



I would tell them (more than one) to sit tight....with the radio.....
I don't think there is any reasonable scenario where they can't be rescued.
Quote>
The terrain will be rough, but relatively flat, with interspersed trees and early autumn/fall weather.
Quote<
To attempt self rescue at this point is not a serious consideration.

This is absolute true, and in real life that would of course be the most prudent thing to do... but it wouldn't make a very interesting story. The background is that they were on a charter plane flying a little too near a wartorn country; they were forced down within that country's borders and now the character has to make it back to friendly territory... but that's not really the story; the focus is about the character's journey, literal and psychological as they're taken from a subburban life and and forced to confront dangers they've only ever seen on TV.
I've always been fascinated with the concept of humans surviving in places they really shouldn't and the idea of a suburbanite crossing a couple hundred miles of wilderness with nothing but his wits and what tools he can fashion resonates with me; it might not be terribly realistic, but... it's a story.

Thanks again

[primitiveskills]

First, you are only lost when you have a place to be and a time to get there. Being fully present means being aware of the clouds, the sun, the wind direction, the limb density and lean on the older trees, geologic features, all things that can help you determine direction. From this space of being calm and noticing your surroundings, don't decide to "be lost" until you have found an elevated, well drained area with lots of materials. Now, instead of "waiting to be rescued", you can build a shelter that will prevent conduction by getting you at least six inches off the ground. Also, prevent Radiation of your core temp by being small and well insulated, and protect you from the elements by having thick walls and/or water and wind tight exterior. This process can take anywhere from fifteen minutes to seven hours depending on what you have with you and what the landscape will provide. By keeping you mind busy and your body moving, shelter building will keep you focused, warm, and confident as you address your situation. Fire and a water container are the next step in the process. Renember, we need to boil water in order to kill the monera. viruses, and bacteria. Even a paper cup placed on hot coals will be suitable enough to boil the water it contains. The trick is getting the fire going. Remember that statements, "Higher is drier", and "If you can't snap it scrap it". A real situation is no time to learn bow drill or hand drill. That ship has sailed. Monkey level fire starting begins with a bic and it is bomb proof as long as you think to bring one with you every time you are out. Ferro rods are nice too. Lenses, still wool and batteries, matches in a water proof case. the key is simplicity and redundancy with regard to ignition systems. Not making a fire sometimes happens, which is why shelter is so crucial. It doesn't make you any less of a man to not get a fire, but it can make you dead. If you don't have the skills (actually, we never really have the skill we just work for it all the time) to get fire off the landscape with rock tools, bring a lighter. By the time you can get fire with rock tools, you will bring a lighter anyway. If you cannot get fire and need drinking water, know the difference between grape vines and two mildly toxic woody vines (lianas) that grow in the same areas-asiatic bittersweet and canadian moonseed. Scarring a maple tree or cutting a grape vine can get you fresh fluid, sometimes up to a gallon a day. Here in Maine the sap is flowing and we are making our years worth of maple sugar. It will dry up once the night and day time temps are above freezing. The last priority is food. In fact, if you are eager to get out of the woods, I would put signaling devices ahead of food. I got some grizzle on my hips that will keep me going for a few weeks, and I dare say most corn syrup fed Americans have the same. Three large fires, blasts from a whistle, Safety blue markers, "X's" made on a sandy beach are all international symbols of distress. Make sure you leave a trip plan with two different people before you head out stating where you are going, your route if possible, and when you will be back. I also include directions and pints of contact in case I don't return by the day I stated I would. Hope this helps. -Much Respect.

[LowKey]

So you want to write a book/story, but you don't know much at all about the subject you are writing about and you don't want to do the research in order to write that story. Instead you want a bunch of people who do their best not to get into such situations give you all the details so you can write your story. And you make money on this, I'm guessing?
What you are looking for is a consultant. They cost money.

You could scope around here and do your research. There's plenty of info. You just have to dig for it. You won't find much on E&E though. You might have to try the Rambo forums for that.

[Tarotb]

Thank you! That is exactly he kind of advice I needed. I can't use all of it, if only because the character won't be in the USA, or anywhere that distress symbols wouldn't get him into more trouble, but there's some really useful information there. Ironically, I'd actually already decided to make him use the bow drill because A) that's how I was taught to make fire, and B) i thought it'd be funny to have him building himself up to cutting off the long hair he's proud of, and then realise he can just use the mane from a wild donkey he's hunted.
I also wasn't certain about the shelter, due to the fact he'll be moving, but I'd forgotten it's not just protection against the elements, but a vital psychological tool, and something he can get better at over the course of his journey.

Thanks again!

[Tarotb]

So you want to write a book/story, but you don't know much at all about the subject you are writing about and you don't want to do the research in order to write that story. Instead you want a bunch of people who do their best not to get into such situations give you all the details so you can write your story. And you make money on this, I'm guessing?
What you are looking for is a consultant. They cost money.

You could scope around here and do your research. There's plenty of info. You just have to dig for it. You won't find much on E&E though. You might have to try the Rambo forums for that.

Um... wow, and hello to you too.
I wasn't going to respond to this, but your misunderstanding and cynical willingness to jump to the worst possible conclusion made me laugh so I couldn't resist.
In answer to your questions. As I mentioned in my initial post, I have done my research; I just couldn't find answers to certain questions. More specifically, I know that merely reading about a subject isn't the same as living it and I wasn't sure what vital tips an expert would pass onto someone with whom they had only a limited window of contact, and so I decided to seek the advice of those wiser and more experienced than myself... which I believe is also a form of research. I don't know anyone in search and rescue, so I came here.
Secondly, to your question/accusation, no, i'm not going to make any money off of this; I write for my own pleasure and that of a handful of people who happen to like my stories. I just happen to enjoy verisimilitude so I research what I write.

But thank you; you made me laugh, which was a pleasant addition to the enlightenment your fellow forum goer posted.

[Rick]

A plane is easier to spot than a man. Just sayin'.......

[Batch]

Well put together response primitiveskills. Your recommendations require what to most are advanced skills.

The everglades region in South Florida is extremely conducive to the type of navigation you refer to. "Being fully present means being aware of the clouds, the sun, the wind direction, the limb density and lean on the older trees, geologic features, all things that can help you determine direction."

While an inclusive observation of limb density and lean of trees can definitely indicate a north south orientation with the limb density being much more prevalent on the south side of most trees. It must be taken with other factors. Our environment is heavily affected by hydrologic flow and almost all hydrologic flows are obvious and tree height are awesome indicators. Yet, backpacker and similar magazines rate navigation as one of the biggest problems and give hiking a 4 out of a possible 5 in difficulty.

In all honestly a novel need not worry about following actual skills. The folks that read it won't usually care. Like folks that watch Bear Grills. Might their god prevent them from following his advice!

Anyway, good luck on you en-devour. primitiveskills I added to your rep.

[hunter63]

Well put together response primitiveskills. Your recommendations require what to most are advanced skills.
..................
Anyway, good luck on you en-devour. primitiveskills I added to your rep.

I have to agree with Batch.........

Would the advice given apply to a non- experienced person....?
I would think the need to keep it simple for "everyman" would be far more valuable.

So PS, what would you answer be in a couple of statements?

Just curious.....

[finallyME]

The proper thing to do...wouldn't make a very good story. A good story needs a conflict. Anyways, distance depends on a lot. A decent backpacker carrying their stuff can do 5-10 miles per day. A good backpacker who wants to do high mileage and carries less stuff can do 20 a day. Most long distance hikers end up doing 20 mile days over and over again because their body breaks into the rhythm. It is amazing what the human body can do. It was designed for traveling long distances. Pioneer children, after a month on the trail to get used to it, would easily walk 15 miles a day.. playing the whole way and outpacing the wagons. People pulling handcarts could pull the handcart faster than the wagons with horses could go.
Anyways, I would say 5 miles a day, until an adventure happens to the main character. "Hatchet" and "My side of the Mountain" where not just survival books.

[NightSG]

A plane is easier to spot than a man. Just sayin'.......

Not necessarily a good thing inside a war zone.

Some things I'd want to know would include food availability and type: are there easy things like plentiful nuts and fruit, tougher acquisitions like fish and small game, less intuitive ones like edible greenery, etc.? Define early autumn for the area; here it means we can live without the air conditioner for most of the day, but still don't need the heater at night. Plenty of things are still fruiting, and most nuts are just starting to get edible. If he's having to take time to forage or trap away from the trail, that will severely impact his travel speed. A 12 day trip could easily be a 3-4 day hike under proper conditions with good supplies, but with 2-3 prep/hiding/waiting days for each full day of hiking.
Then there's the character; fitness, current outdoor familiarity, how recently has he eaten, is he wearing good hiking clothes, etc. Shoes make the most difference in actual pace, but again, if he's having to shelter early because he doesn't have a good coat, or spending a lot of time treating scratches and stings, that takes away from time spent moving forward. If he had a good meal right before takeoff, he can go a couple of days before hunger becomes a major distraction or hypoglycemia becomes a threat, but somebody likely had a bag of peanuts or something in their pocket that can get him through a day or two if used wisely. Same for water; unless it's a sightseeing trip, I'd expect there to be at least a few bottles on board. Enough for a week or two of sheltering in place, but only a couple days on the trail. If he hikes or trail runs for fun on the weekends, his endurance will be excellent, though he may not be very resistant to injuries from real rough terrain.

[Seniorman]

Hi,

I'm hoping some of you might be able to help. I'm writing a story in which someone ends up lost in the wilderness following a plane crash.

I'd like to start the story with my character making brief contact with the authorities via a miraculously intact radio, but for story reasons, the area they're in is too remote for rescue; the character has to get to somewhere they can be extracted, but since the radio is part of the plane, they can't bring it with them.

In this situation, what would you tell my character? The journey should take about 12 days and I've already decided to direct them towards a river, which isn't the most direct route back, but will give them access to clean water for most of their journey. One thing I'm not certain of, is how far someone in reasonable health can walk in a day; I know that over uneven terrain the average walking pace is about 2.5mph but that doesn't help a lot with distance, or suggest when the character should take breaks?

Because they were a scout, the character will happen to have a knife, and very basic survival skills, but aside from that they're not prepared, although they will find the pilot's map and compass. The terrain will be rough, but relatively flat, with interspersed trees and early autumn/fall weather.

Thank you for reading this far, and, hopefully, for your help.

Tarot

From your description it sounds as if your main character, your protagonist, has a number of people with him who survived the crash, and he has to take care of them also.

Probably best to tell your hero to take stock of his situation, settle and calm the other survivors, make them as comfortable as possible, and see to their First Aid needs as much as he can. Your protagonist can send the survivors who are mobile out to try and gather things to build a shelter, fire, and water for all. It would be difficult for your protagonist to lead out several survivors, but in a fiction novel, it can be done although it would entail a whole lot of problems and conflict.

Best of luck with your writing. As the old saying goes, "Good writing isn't easy; good writers just make it appear as if it were." :thumbup1:

S.M.

[NightSG]

Almost forgot; unless the plane completely disintegrated except for the radio and battery, there's a good pile of supplies. Strip off a mostly intact seat cover, add seat belt straps to make a backpack. Consolidate half-full water bottles to get an empty to put some fuel in. Dig through others' stuff for a pocket sewing kit that becomes a decent fishing kit easily. Pull wiring and control cables for snares or lashing. Random hose as a blowpipe for firebuilding. Anything beyond four total seats and/or intended for bush flights likely has some basic toolkit on board, though maybe not anything useful beyond the initial stripping of the wreckage. (Not much use for a set of wrenches in the woods, and a screwdriver as a stabbing implement isn't equal to a good knife, though pliers can be worth their weight in gold anywhere.) Planes will also be full of paper; logbooks, checklists, manuals and such, so tinder isn't an issue, especially if you've got a little AvGas (gasoline) or Jet-A (kerosene) to drip on it.
Assuming there were other people besides a single pilot, he should have a few sets of clothing he can layer on. Somebody might be a smoker with a Zippo (and if he can salvage a pint of the plane's fuel, this will last the whole trip no matter how much he uses it unless the flint fails - but most users keep a spare tucked into the packing, and he's not going to use up a new flint in 12 days) or a butane lighter on them. If the pilot is used to spending a lot of time waiting in the plane, there's probably a change of clothes and light blanket or similar tucked away somewhere, and maybe a stash of snacks. With some luck, maybe a thermos with the good old steel cup that will boil a little water at a time on the tiny fire he's going to want as long as he's in hostile territory. Any sensible pilot will also have a few flashlights stashed here and there, and a handheld GPS as an airgapped backup to the plane's nav, especially when near international borders.

[kyratshooter]

More holes in this plot than a Swiss cheese sandwich!

[Rick]

Where did the war come from? Was someone shooting and I didn't duck?

[finallyME]

Not necessarily a good thing inside a war zone.

Some things I'd want to know would include food availability and type: are there easy things like plentiful nuts and fruit, tougher acquisitions like fish and small game, less intuitive ones like edible greenery, etc.? Define early autumn for the area; here it means we can live without the air conditioner for most of the day, but still don't need the heater at night. Plenty of things are still fruiting, and most nuts are just starting to get edible. If he's having to take time to forage or trap away from the trail, that will severely impact his travel speed. A 12 day trip could easily be a 3-4 day hike under proper conditions with good supplies, but with 2-3 prep/hiding/waiting days for each full day of hiking.
Then there's the character; fitness, current outdoor familiarity, how recently has he eaten, is he wearing good hiking clothes, etc. Shoes make the most difference in actual pace, but again, if he's having to shelter early because he doesn't have a good coat, or spending a lot of time treating scratches and stings, that takes away from time spent moving forward. If he had a good meal right before takeoff, he can go a couple of days before hunger becomes a major distraction or hypoglycemia becomes a threat, but somebody likely had a bag of peanuts or something in their pocket that can get him through a day or two if used wisely. Same for water; unless it's a sightseeing trip, I'd expect there to be at least a few bottles on board. Enough for a week or two of sheltering in place, but only a couple days on the trail. If he hikes or trail runs for fun on the weekends, his endurance will be excellent, though he may not be very resistant to injuries from real rough terrain.

A good point is made here in that you are either traveling or you are finding food/shelter. You don't do both at the same time. Backpackers can put back miles because they food and shelter all taken care of. Someone foraging and building shelters will have a hard time doing much distance at all. When you see guys on TV doing it in a "survival" situation, they are banking on the fact that the producer will have someone out to pick them up. You can walk a couple days without much food... as long as there is guaranteed food a couple days away... and a camera crew sneaking you snacks.

[finallyME]

More holes in this plot than a Swiss cheese sandwich!

Maybe he is writing a movie instead of a novel.

Here is a good idea. A plane crashes in some really high mountains covered in snow. A soccer team is on the plane. They stay with the plane for a little while, but the only food they can find is the people that didn't survive. Eventually a group of the more healthy survivors decide to walk out and get help. They pack "meat" for the journey.

[Tarotb]

In all honestly a novel need not worry about following actual skills. The folks that read it won't usually care. Like folks that watch Bear Grills. Might their god prevent them from following his advice!

Anyway, good luck on you en-devour. primitiveskills I added to your rep.

Thank you very much; I know I don't have to be totally true to live, but I do want to make it as realistic as I can, without boring my readers, or making the character look like superman for surviving; basically I want to write a story which shows someone can survive adversity by using common sense and not doing stupid things.

Thanks again.

[Tarotb]

The proper thing to do...wouldn't make a very good story. A good story needs a conflict. Anyways, distance depends on a lot. A decent backpacker carrying their stuff can do 5-10 miles per day. A good backpacker who wants to do high mileage and carries less stuff can do 20 a day. Most long distance hikers end up doing 20 mile days over and over again because their body breaks into the rhythm. It is amazing what the human body can do. It was designed for traveling long distances. Pioneer children, after a month on the trail to get used to it, would easily walk 15 miles a day.. playing the whole way and outpacing the wagons. People pulling handcarts could pull the handcart faster than the wagons with horses could go.
Anyways, I would say 5 miles a day, until an adventure happens to the main character. "Hatchet" and "My side of the Mountain" where not just survival books.


Interesting. I had planned to have the character be disappointed that they only made 8 miles the first day, and 5 the second due to stiffness from the unexpected exercise, but then gradually work up to 15 or even 20 miles by the end of their journey, but that was based on an account I read a while back that said an army in the 1800's would consider it good if they managed 10 miles a day. I assumed that a reasonably fit person, unencumbered by a heavy pack and not being forced to march at the rate of the slowest person would be able to do 15 or 20, but what you say makes sense.
The other thing it seems I haven't fully accounted for is foraging and shelter.

Thanks again.

[hunter63]

Just a couple of observations.
Seem you really don't want the "star" to suffer....more and more stuff is being added by the minute.

So now it's a evasion exercise?.
Read "Bat*21"........Based on a true story.

Any way, Have you written an out line....Start, middle, end?...Yet

[Seniorman]

"Maybe he is writing a movie instead of a novel. ..."

There have already been several flicks written and produced about the same subject: survival after a plane goes down in the wilderness.

One that comes immediately to mind is The Edge. Another is Snow Walker.

They're out there.

S.M.

[kyratshooter]

I get quickly jaded over bad plots and constant changing of influences and especially over writers that know nothing about the subject matter, mental state or parameters of the equipment that should be in use.

Part of that is due to my past reading experiences.

The all time greatest wilderness survival/escape and evasion book ever written is Last of the Breed by Louis La Amor. Anyone wishing to "write for their own pleasure" needs to read that book, then give up in shame and pick another hobby because you are just irritating people from that point on.

[Tarotb]

Some things I'd want to know would include food availability and type: are there easy things like plentiful nuts and fruit, tougher acquisitions like fish and small game, less intuitive ones like edible greenery, etc.?

Food is something I've been struggling with; he'll have a few days of provisions from the crash in the form of peanuts and similar carry on food that was on the plane, but before they run out, he'll successfully 'hunt' an animal by panicking it into running off a small cliff and into a ravine...which isn't enough to kill it and so he has the trauma of putting it out of its misery. That will give him another few days of meat... but since he can't cure or dry it, he won't be able to take enough to last him the entire journey. I'm really not sure the best way to bulk out his meals; I have to admit I didn't consider nuts, (I'm British; we only have three edible nuts and they all grow in late autumn/winter) but they'd be a nice source of energy, but edible greenery sounds risky if you don't know which plants are safe.


Define early autumn for the area; here it means we can live without the air conditioner for most of the day, but still don't need the heater at night.

Over here it means there's a chill in the air, overcast with strong winds and occasional bouts of rain, though there can also be some nice weather. I was planning for him to be chilly, but only occasionally lashed with rain, leading to a cold snap in the last few days to make a final hurdle.


Plenty of things are still fruiting, and most nuts are just starting to get edible. If he's having to take time to forage or trap away from the trail, that will severely impact his travel speed. A 12 day trip could easily be a 3-4 day hike under proper conditions with good supplies, but with 2-3 prep/hiding/waiting days for each full day of hiking.

Good point; I'd thought of him generally walking his route, foraging as he went but in retrospect that does sound naive. Then again, the reason I chose a 12 day route was because it's not terribly long from a provisions perspective, so it won't be the end of the world if he goes some days without eating... although that would slow him down even more.
'Food' for thought; thanks.


Then there's the character; fitness, current outdoor familiarity, how recently has he eaten, is he wearing good hiking clothes, etc. Shoes make the most difference in actual pace, but again, if he's having to shelter early because he doesn't have a good coat, or spending a lot of time treating scratches and stings, that takes away from time spent moving forward. If he had a good meal right before takeoff, he can go a couple of days before hunger becomes a major distraction or hypoglycemia becomes a threat, but somebody likely had a bag of peanuts or something in their pocket that can get him through a day or two if used wisely. Same for water; unless it's a sightseeing trip, I'd expect there to be at least a few bottles on board. Enough for a week or two of sheltering in place, but only a couple days on the trail. If he hikes or trail runs for fun on the weekends, his endurance will be excellent, though he may not be very resistant to injuries from real rough terrain.

All excellent points; I'd already decided to give him a good coat, because I couldn't see him surviving without one, but couldn't convince myself he'd have anything better than trainers. I was going to give him some t-shirts found in a bag though; I guessed they'd make a solar still until he reached a river, and then perhaps serve as bandages and shoe padding to reduce blisters. Again, because I couldn't see him surviving otherwise, he will do some form of exercise though I'm not sure which yet; probably cycling since I know the most about that, but if not then something that does, as you've said, involve endurance.

Thanks again.

[Tarotb]

From your description it sounds as if your main character, your protagonist, has a number of people with him who survived the crash, and he has to take care of them also.

Probably best to tell your hero to take stock of his situation, settle and calm the other survivors, make them as comfortable as possible, and see to their First Aid needs as much as he can. Your protagonist can send the survivors who are mobile out to try and gather things to build a shelter, fire, and water for all. It would be difficult for your protagonist to lead out several survivors, but in a fiction novel, it can be done although it would entail a whole lot of problems and conflict.

Best of luck with your writing. As the old saying goes, "Good writing isn't easy; good writers just make it appear as if it were." :thumbup1:

S.M.

Very intuitive; I'm actually undecided on whether to include another survivor. There are pros and cons, some to do with conflict, but mostly resource management; two sets of hands mean half the work, but twice as many mouths to feed. On the other hand it'd help with loneliness and the bonding - with a few fallings out - would be psychologically healthy given the situation, and I've been told that a positive mental attitude is the most important aspect of survival.

Thanks

[Tarotb]

Almost forgot; unless the plane completely disintegrated except for the radio and battery, there's a good pile of supplies. Strip off a mostly intact seat cover, add seat belt straps to make a backpack. Consolidate half-full water bottles to get an empty to put some fuel in. Dig through others' stuff for a pocket sewing kit that becomes a decent fishing kit easily. Pull wiring and control cables for snares or lashing. Random hose as a blowpipe for firebuilding. Anything beyond four total seats and/or intended for bush flights likely has some basic toolkit on board, though maybe not anything useful beyond the initial stripping of the wreckage. (Not much use for a set of wrenches in the woods, and a screwdriver as a stabbing implement isn't equal to a good knife, though pliers can be worth their weight in gold anywhere.) Planes will also be full of paper; logbooks, checklists, manuals and such, so tinder isn't an issue, especially if you've got a little AvGas (gasoline) or Jet-A (kerosene) to drip on it.
Assuming there were other people besides a single pilot, he should have a few sets of clothing he can layer on. Somebody might be a smoker with a Zippo (and if he can salvage a pint of the plane's fuel, this will last the whole trip no matter how much he uses it unless the flint fails - but most users keep a spare tucked into the packing, and he's not going to use up a new flint in 12 days) or a butane lighter on them. If the pilot is used to spending a lot of time waiting in the plane, there's probably a change of clothes and light blanket or similar tucked away somewhere, and maybe a stash of snacks. With some luck, maybe a thermos with the good old steel cup that will boil a little water at a time on the tiny fire he's going to want as long as he's in hostile territory. Any sensible pilot will also have a few flashlights stashed here and there, and a handheld GPS as an airgapped backup to the plane's nav, especially when near international borders.

It was a small charter plane, but you're right in that the crash would be a major source of tools and supplies... so i'm going to have to get rid of it as soon as i can; I'm thinking that the character will accidentally create a spark while stripping some metal, that'll ignite the fuel and create a fire that means they will have to leave the area. It's a touch crude, but I can't give them too many supplies; some food and maybe a blanket, but that'll also give the character anguish over accidentally destroying his salvation.

Thanks

[Tarotb]

Just a couple of observations.
Seem you really don't want the "star" to suffer....more and more stuff is being added by the minute.

So now it's a evasion exercise?.
Read "Bat*21"........Based on a true story.

Any way, Have you written an out line....Start, middle, end?...Yet



Suffer? Yes. Contract dysentery by day three? No.
I'd like him to be challenged, but I don't want to make the task impossible, or turn him into superman to overcome them. The evasion exercise is simply a plot convenience to explain why they aren't doing the sensible thing and remaining by the plane to await rescue.

I have a start (the flight and crash), a middle (most of the journey) and an end (final evasion and rush across the border); I just needed some help with fleshing the details of surviving.

Thanks

[Tarotb]

I get quickly jaded over bad plots and constant changing of influences and especially over writers that know nothing about the subject matter, mental state or parameters of the equipment that should be in use.

Part of that is due to my past reading experiences.

The all time greatest wilderness survival/escape and evasion book ever written is Last of the Breed by Louis La Amor. Anyone wishing to "write for their own pleasure" needs to read that book, then give up in shame and pick another hobby because you are just irritating people from that point on.

Your ability to judge the literary merit of my work before it's even half written is very impressive, but I will find a copy of the Last of the Breed. From the synopsis, I suspect the character is more competent than I was aiming for, but will likely give me ideas, so I will thank you.

[WalkingTree]

...if looking to a movie to get some idea of what it's "really" like, or at least give you a good feel for how you should approach some fiction when you don't have much personal experience in this area, one that comes to my mind (which is also a personal favorite, and that I think is beautiful) is The Grey with Liam Neeson. In reality, I feel that the characters in this movie would've been as dead as a Homo erectus fossil before the first 12 hours were up due to simple exposure. Maybe even just 2 hours. Nonetheless, this movie would help readjust many ill-conceived and inaccurate notions that you may have.

But with that said, I do love...LOVE...this scene from another movie that was mentioned earlier - The Edge:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9ajZhH-yds

[Tarotb]

...if looking to a movie to get some idea of what it's "really" like, or at least give you a good feel for how you should approach some fiction when you don't have much personal experience in this area, one that comes to my mind (which is also a personal favorite, and that I think is beautiful) is The Grey with Liam Neeson. In reality, I feel that the characters in this movie would've been as dead as a Homo erectus fossil before the first 12 hours were up due to simple exposure. Maybe even just 2 hours. Nonetheless, this movie would help readjust many ill-conceived and inaccurate notions that you may have.

But with that said, I do love...LOVE...this scene from another movie that was mentioned earlier - The Edge:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9ajZhH-yds


Hi,

Thanks; I'll look out for it!

[ronjnk]

Tarotb... I won't offer any further advice. You've gotten a pile of stuff to work with. I would like to offer some feedback though from a guy that at least twice a year, is potentially faced with that exact situation. Float plane goes down while we are coming or going from home. We live in the wilderness. Charter float plane is the only way you will find us.

You mention radio but at least around here, part of the survival gear on a plane is an emergency transponder. Something to keep in mind. I suspect that is pretty standard.

As far as distance a person can travel in a day, that is a huge variable. I thru hiked the Appalachian Trail in the winter. I was lugging winter gear and a heavy pack. There was one spot I needed to push and I did 300 miles in 13 1/2 days. I had already done 1000 miles so I was in good shape. But it was trail. I didn't have to bushwhack. It was a hiking trail.

As a comparison, I'm out here in the bush. The bush is so variable, even in my prime, I might only have been able to go 5-10 miles a day. Out here it depends on how much boggy ground needs to be traversed, was there a fire that the forest is now piled up like match sticks blown over, can I actually hold a bearing to a point or do I have to navigate around a lake. Is it a mature forest or one that is recovering and is so dense you're left scratching your head how to get out of the mess.

Although you are writing a book and have free rein of the plot, I thought I'd offer some perspective from the point of view of someone who has done long distance hiking and lives in the wilderness. Let me know if you have a specific question about the bush or hiking. I'd be happy to try to help. Good luck!
Ron

[NightSG]

It was a small charter plane, but you're right in that the crash would be a major source of tools and supplies... so i'm going to have to get rid of it as soon as i can; I'm thinking that the character will accidentally create a spark while stripping some metal, that'll ignite the fuel and create a fire that means they will have to leave the area. It's a touch crude, but I can't give them too many supplies; some food and maybe a blanket, but that'll also give the character anguish over accidentally destroying his salvation.

More realistic would be to have him shelter among the sheet metal, and accidentally light off something from a small fire he's built to warm up. Remember that 95+% of the metal on an airplane is aluminum, so making sparks would be a pretty neat trick.

Also, in a crash, there should be some loose panels and possibly some small rods (pushrods for various controls, etc. as well as seat frame metal) that would make good spear heads for small game hunting. Ask around your area at airports that handle planes similar to what you're planning, and they may be able to point you to someone who has a couple of them being parted out so you can see what the guts look like. Stiff wires or light gauge rods make great fish and frog gigs, while any metal the character can bend (those pliers would be really handy for this) can be made into a barbed point.

[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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Jewe (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/524883)Film (http://hangonpart.ru/t/768976)Maur (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/565831)Sieg (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/562717)Марк (http://hardasiron.ru/t/567001)Supe (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/567671)Ба�н (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/568528)Скор (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/198417)Silv (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/602372)(195 (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/793459)Плот (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/396764)Иллю (http://headregulator.ru/t/806721)Kare (http://heartofgold.ru/t/1037963)Lycr (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/557109)Kurt (http://heatinggas.ru/t/1183342)
дире (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/843160)Roxy (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/603636)Coll (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/607192)Eleg (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/608376)Sela (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/605869)мело (http://jobstress.ru/t/605827)Trac (http://jogformation.ru/t/637426)Люби (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/830424)Трух (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/1142307)Тимо (http://journallubricator.ru/t/786898)Бере (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/786767)наро (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/854588)XVII (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/836100)Еник (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/820499)UNIX (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/823380)
Yash (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/771128)Rond (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/610907)Ливш (http://kentishglory.ru/t/838436)Дуби (http://kerbweight.ru/t/821158)PURE (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/607046)Zone (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/609797)вида (http://keyserum.ru/t/883509)Char (http://kickplate.ru/t/479127)гене (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/679817)PURE (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/607023)чи�т (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/610176)подв (http://kinozones.ru/film/5608)diam (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/611993)Happ (http://kneejoint.ru/t/606419)Bona (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/888405)
Zone (http://knockonatom.ru/t/608688)�ере (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/611955)иллю (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/677038)Zone (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/1193386)Лохв (http://laborracket.ru/t/767916)Шаро (http://labourearnings.ru/t/895142)Ulri (http://labourleasing.ru/t/894845)XVII (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/976963)Mark (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/1071248)Robe (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/900629)Zone (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/1185901)�шур (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/853784)Жуко (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/809646)Живк (http://laggingload.ru/t/833555)Кере (http://laissezaller.ru/t/856829)
Roma (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/831955)Alic (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/834829)по�в (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/834751)Raim (http://lamphouse.ru/t/898937)Swam (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/831893)авто (http://lancingdie.ru/t/814031)Иллю (http://landingdoor.ru/t/811908)мен� (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/1183731)Кара (http://landreform.ru/t/1047166)Соло (http://landuseratio.ru/t/856120)110- (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/1067599)хоро (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1827097)кра� (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/1826996)Nexu (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/1565)Brio (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/1030653)

[yellowcab]

вари (http://laterevent.ru/shop/155334)Atla (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/453311)Rich (http://layabout.ru/shop/601752)Book (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/1418612)Ð�рти (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/465269)Book (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/795022)9851 (http://leaveword.ru/shop/1152212)Пеку (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/447196)4500 (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/862210)Chri (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/862033)Ð*оÑ�Ñ� (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/576239)Ð*азм (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/789060)Wuje (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/1151842)PROT (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/614104)Ñ�кла (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/1176217)
хоро (http://manualchoke.ru/shop/1545195)меди (http://medinfobooks.ru/book/3188)trac (http://mp3lists.ru/item/5344)тек� (http://nameresolution.ru/shop/1532978)кра� (http://naphtheneseries.ru/shop/1034026)Smas (http://narrowmouthed.ru/shop/467968)Disc (http://nationalcensus.ru/shop/1206914)BRAT (http://naturalfunctor.ru/shop/1031545)Hair (http://navelseed.ru/shop/454577)Wind (http://neatplaster.ru/shop/1068778)Cryi (http://necroticcaries.ru/shop/223575)wwwi (http://negativefibration.ru/shop/652767)Wind (http://neighbouringrights.ru/shop/865847)�кре (http://objectmodule.ru/shop/472163)увед (http://observationballoon.ru/shop/97324)
Ñ�ерт (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/1032751)Chou (http://oceanmining.ru/shop/458358)Kite (http://octupolephonon.ru/shop/571782)ЛитÐ* (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/1153516)Магн (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/1256866)ЛитÐ* (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/288571)Scre (http://onesticket.ru/shop/584359)МоÑ�к (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/585541)ЛитÐ* (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/689802)ЛитÐ* (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/690706)Myst (http://palmberry.ru/shop/956465)жите (http://papercoating.ru/shop/683047)Fred (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/1067775)Came (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1708997)назн (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1178207)
Fede (http://partfamily.ru/shop/1420619)втуз (http://partialmajorant.ru/shop/1538324)Пано (http://quadrupleworm.ru/shop/1545520)Гуре (http://qualitybooster.ru/shop/1708856)ко�м (http://quasimoney.ru/shop/736545)Джор (http://quenchedspark.ru/shop/931292)Summ (http://quodrecuperet.ru/shop/1214020)глав (http://rabbetledge.ru/shop/1434194)Лени (http://radialchaser.ru/shop/1502700)Orig (http://radiationestimator.ru/shop/518062)Дугл (http://railwaybridge.ru/shop/888781)учил (http://randomcoloration.ru/shop/975485)Букл (http://rapidgrowth.ru/shop/1079081)Acti (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru/shop/1401766)упра (http://reachthroughregion.ru/shop/1559020)
Benn (http://readingmagnifier.ru/shop/632303)�ифо (http://rearchain.ru/shop/880106)К�ЙД (http://recessioncone.ru/shop/932907)Галь (http://recordedassignment.ru/shop/1654988)Попо (http://rectifiersubstation.ru/shop/1662328)Шуби (http://redemptionvalue.ru/shop/1668377)Галу (http://reducingflange.ru/shop/1690075)Паще (http://referenceantigen.ru/shop/1715979)Маку (http://regeneratedprotein.ru/shop/1774101)orig (http://reinvestmentplan.ru/shop/1785609)Мано (http://safedrilling.ru/shop/1822934)За�о (http://sagprofile.ru/shop/1847578)Хала (http://salestypelease.ru/shop/1856280)допо (http://samplinginterval.ru/shop/1884344)Jean (http://satellitehydrology.ru/shop/1918750)
Щегл (http://scarcecommodity.ru/shop/1932024)разд (http://scrapermat.ru/shop/1950419)Greg (http://screwingunit.ru/shop/1964041)Rain (http://seawaterpump.ru/shop/1973602)Сыче (http://secondaryblock.ru/shop/1463439)Кочу (http://secularclergy.ru/shop/1498450)авто (http://seismicefficiency.ru/shop/1604477)Иван (http://selectivediffuser.ru/shop/1656891)авто (http://semiasphalticflux.ru/shop/1680482)Коно (http://semifinishmachining.ru/shop/1714147)Nexu (http://spicetrade.ru/spice_zakaz/1565)Nexu (http://spysale.ru/spy_zakaz/1565)Nexu (http://stungun.ru/stun_zakaz/1565)wwwr (http://tacticaldiameter.ru/shop/488180)1991 (http://tailstockcenter.ru/shop/1765023)
47-8 (http://tamecurve.ru/shop/1773614)Donn (http://tapecorrection.ru/shop/1776720)Fanc (http://tappingchuck.ru/shop/494585)Бело (http://taskreasoning.ru/shop/506126)Гриц (http://technicalgrade.ru/shop/1856022)Кошм (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru/shop/1901914)Такк (http://telescopicdamper.ru/shop/1969096)Vict (http://temperateclimate.ru/shop/890607)Skin (http://temperedmeasure.ru/shop/933213)Олей (http://tenementbuilding.ru/shop/986457)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)пере (http://ultramaficrock.ru/shop/988816)Feel (http://ultraviolettesting.ru/shop/488566)