View Full Version : Is a Disguise in your kit?
Tristar777
08-01-2015, 02:37 PM
Hi All.
This may sound a strange title so I will explain a little to try and make it clearer!
The other day my wife and I had a problem with someone either drunk or on drugs.
One thing led to another and he rammed my wife in the back with his bicycle so naturally I put him on the floor and explained that that sort of thing would only result in him being seriously hurt!
As usual, once we were a few yards away he got all brave and shouted and swore, then started to phone his mates on his phone to come down and sort out this big tough 50 year old with arthritis and his wife!
Because we were close to home and he would see where we lived we decided to take the long way home.
After thinking about what may have helped, as you do in retrospect, I thought about a light weight jacket and spare hat would have helped if he or his pals had been waiting to see if we came back that way!
What do you think?
Am I over thinking this one?
bob3663
08-01-2015, 04:04 PM
I think you may be over thinking it. But if someone ever touched my wife they would be in for a world of pain. A knife or sidearm would also keep things peaceful. Just my opinion.
crashdive123
08-01-2015, 04:26 PM
It never hurts to have a spare set of clothes or jacket in your vehicle. In the situation you described I don't think they were needed. Glad neither of you were hurt. I think the "offender" got of easy.
Always a good place to call LEO. Albeit after he "attacked" you and you had to defend yourself of course. The main thing is you get the idiot's name from the report so you know who you are dealing with and there is a record on file for the future.
kyratshooter
08-01-2015, 08:29 PM
Keep in mind that this particular person is in Great Britain. They have neither the legal right to self defense or the weapons to maintain that right.
All they can do is run and hide and hope for the best. Even getting to the house is no guarantee of safety.
Their exterior doors must be easily breeched so the fire brigade will have no trouble entering the house in case of a fire.
LEO also has a different function there, since they are also unarmed.
randyt
08-01-2015, 08:46 PM
Maybe as Krat explains it, it would be wise to carry a disguise for those conditions. Doesn't GB have a plethora of cameras with facial feature software on every corner?
Eastree
08-01-2015, 10:49 PM
I know it's a bit off-topic but disguises work the other direction, too.
Two nights ago, I went with a small group into the city to catch a show. Afterwards we were having dinner, seated outside. We watched a guy in ragged clothes stopping pedestrians across the street from us (we couldn't hear what they said, but I imagine it was one of the usual 'hard on my luck' bits). My girlfriends started saying, "run away, run away, run away ..." because the guy looked shady as all get-out. Well, he started trying to usher one couple into a nearby parking lot, and they refused, making a quick retreat (after having verbally engaged the guy for far too long in the first place) across the intersection. When the guy started trying to usher the couple into the parking lot, another guy started creeping out of the bushes. He stopped moving when the couple trotted across the road. At this point I was wondering whether I would end up witnessing something nobody wanted to see, and wondering whether the guy would still be around when we were headed back to the car.
Any way, closer to the topic: The guy who had been stopping people eventually at least decided to move on. Two other men stepped out of the bushes and from behind a sign. The first guy took a wrap off his head, let his long hairdo fall, and put a jacket or something on. He looked completely different. It made me wonder whether one of his previous encounters would have been able to identify him, as so many people rely on clothes and hair when recognizing people.
Just those small changes rendered him a very different appearance.
natertot
08-01-2015, 11:15 PM
Per the original post, a disguise wouldn't be necessary because an unconscious person can't see where you went. I'll leave it at that.
kyratshooter
08-02-2015, 03:13 AM
Maybe as Krat explains it, it would be wise to carry a disguise for those conditions. Doesn't GB have a plethora of cameras with facial feature software on every corner?
GB is the most watched society in the world with an extensive public CCTV network. These are not traffic cams or private security videos, they are cameras intended to keep an eye on the actions and movements of the public.
They have been trying to get facial recognition capabilities installed but there is a good deal of problem with that technology that TPTB, and the movie makers, do not want talked about extensively.
The facial recognition hardware does not like sun glasses or beards. I am sure a Groucho Marx glasses and 'stashe would crash the hard drive.
Of course on TV they show all kinds of triangles on the face and distances between the eyes and relationship to the nose and corners of the mouth, but it just don't work that well in real life and the technological folks in GB do not want to spend the money until the bugs are worked out.
The British preppers spend a great deal of their energy working on their "gray man" and stealth techniques, since that is one of their only defensive measures.
As for weapons, firearms are present but very controlled, and never carried. If you send in the permission form with "self defense" marked as the need for the firearm it will be denied.
Knives are also out of the question. They can be carried only if work related or sports/camping and the blades can be no more than 2 1/2" I think I remember and no locking mechanism on folders.
You can just sort of take our TSA airport security rules and apply them to your daily life over there.
I guess if I saw something shady I'd have to make a call. I'd rather someone be unduly detained for a few moments than not make the call and someone get injured or worse. Vice versa as well. I would have no problem being detained if someone thought my actions were questionable. Most police departments have a non-emergency number that can be called for such items. Simply ask to speak with Dispatch and explain the situation. We are really blessed with a lot of LEO on patrol in a given shift so someone would be there pretty quickly. I know other towns don't have that luxury. But we really should look out for each other. I'm hard pressed to understand those folks that don't bother to get involved. That takes the civility out of civilization doesn't it?
crashdive123
08-02-2015, 10:44 AM
I agree.
I maintain a storage unit at one of those mega storage places. The other day I was going to my unit to pick up some equipment and passed a guy that had about four AC units that he was cutting up (copper theft is a huge problem here). I called the non emergency number and waited outside the gate for the police to show up. Gave him the unit number, description of the guy (no vehicle present) and entered the code to open the gate. Turns out his unit was stacked floor to ceiling with AC innards.
Batch
08-02-2015, 11:33 AM
Our time clock at work is face recognition. It works for some first time every time. Then it takes others multiple tries to punch in or out.
I agree that the activity observed warranted a phone call.
I would not carry a disguise. I would settle the matter before I reached home. The PC way to settle it would be to call the police.
If you are that close to your home when you encounter the guy in the first place. Isn't it rather likely that you could encounter him again in the same area?
TXyakr
08-02-2015, 01:27 PM
I agree with Rick, my first reaction I hope would be to call law enforcement and report as an assult but not commit one. Wittnesses could see you take the drunk cyclist down but not him hit your wife and you would be in jail not him.
I have had people drive very close to me while I was crossing in a crosswalk on foot here in Texas. I bang the car metal with my hand then take out their taillight with a sock and coins or handle of my knife (over the years just expect to get hit when walking in TX, so be ready for it.). Then run and hide behind a light post because this is Texas not UK, many firearms in cars. Not much respect for pedestrians here, I noticed the laws are very different in Florida.
Tristar777
08-02-2015, 02:12 PM
Hi. Thanks for your replies.
If I had reported the incident I would probably been charged as it was not me that was struck by the bike! Yup, If my wife had punched him it would be self defence.
We were only 30 or so yards from home so there is a high possibility that I may see/be seen by him again.
If this happens Ill take as many out as possible and worry about the law case afterwards.
Over here if these yobs, as they usually are, will only fight in gangs, if they know where you live they will make your life hell. Smashed windows, damage to your car etc and we have very little come back as we are not allowed to defend our property physically.
We can video and report but if we take individual action then you will end up in court on the wrong side of the law!
There is ID video in the UK but only in the major cities, not in small towns but that wont help as they would attack the property wearing bandanas/hoodies to prevent being recognised.
Tristar777
08-02-2015, 02:29 PM
As a previous reply said. When this had happened we walked to the local Walmart and bought some drinks making sure we were not followed. The idea being that the store has security and cameras so if we were followed we would call upon that for support/evidence.
We weren't followed but we got a couple of plastic bags and put our coats and my cap in them so we looked different.
We then walked around to my mothers house, had a cuppa and watched a bit of TV and then got a taxi back home so we didn't walk back through the area.
At the end of the day, my wife has a damaged spine, what he did could have put her in a chair for life.
I only hit him once which stopped him from continuing to hurt my wife.
I think I took reasonable action even if the law wouldn't!
randyt
08-02-2015, 03:23 PM
Here in michigan USA they passed a good Samaritan law, don't remember exactly when. Anyhoo it is legal to use force to assist someone under attack, it can be a stranger. Don't know if this had happened.
Seniorman
08-02-2015, 03:45 PM
TRISTAR 777 - "... At the end of the day, my wife has a damaged spine, what he did could have put her in a chair for life. ..."
I am well aware of how the British politicians have neutered the English people. It is utterly shameful!
If the above had happened to my wife, here in Idaho, that piece of dog vomit would never have got off the ground.
As for the piece of vile dreck who attacked your wife, in my opinion, given what a couple of friends of mine who live in England have told me, fetid, cowardly thugs (yobs) such as the one who slammed your wife, will attack again. If not you, someone else.
I am sorry your wife was injured and will suffer spinal pain in the future. I know what back pain is. Best of wishes for her.
S.M.
EDIT: There was a movie released in 2009 starring Michael Caine entitled "Harry Brown." If you've not seen it, you might rent a copy and watch it. One of my friends in England tells me that there are still a few "Harry Browns" in England.
S.M.
DSJohnson
08-02-2015, 03:46 PM
Tristar777,
Thank you for making the post. It sounds like you handled the situation very well. I do not think you are "overthinking" anything personally. I think we should always review and critique any incident/event/action like you are describing. Try to figure out how not to repeat it or how to do it better or what tools would have helped. I think it may be very reasonable to keep some type of cap/hoodie, and even glasses to give you a different "look" if needed. Besides being a multi-use item a good "Crusher" hat is pretty easy to carry/pack and would sure change the profile.
I also understand you not calling the law. Sad but very understandable. Again all in all it sounds like you took the action necessary at the time and then did the best you could afterwards.
Grizz123
08-03-2015, 09:28 AM
I guess if I saw something shady I'd have to make a call. I'd rather someone be unduly detained for a few moments than not make the call and someone get injured or worse. Vice versa as well.... I'm hard pressed to understand those folks that don't bother to get involved. That takes the civility out of civilization doesn't it?
I agree...
I bang the car metal with my hand then take out their taillight with a sock and coins or handle of my knife (over the years just expect to get hit when walking in TX, so be ready for it.). Then run and hide behind a light post
I'm sorry, I'm lost on this. Does someone else's lack of attention, ignorance or disregard for safety warrant the commission of a petty crime? Warrant the damage to other's property? I'm curious how you would feel if you walked out this morning and found someone had punched out your tail light? Angry would be my guess. If you are that close and that bothered by the act then take down their license number and report them.
hunter63
08-03-2015, 10:14 AM
I just gonna say.....to the OP....Your are lucky it turned out as it did....so far.
I do not include an "official disguise" in my kit, never gave it a thought, nor has this thread prompted me to even consider it.
Change hats, maybe, disguise....No.
Mostly situation awareness and courtesy have served me well over the years.
Most of the rest of this thread....I have nothing....
NightSG
08-03-2015, 10:28 AM
It made me wonder whether one of his previous encounters would have been able to identify him, as so many people rely on clothes and hair when recognizing people.
This is also why we were reminded to look at people's shoes when I worked security; they'll change a jacket, shirt or hat, but rarely think to change shoes right away, and well used shoes tend to have distinctive wear patterns. Even if they do, most people don't own enough shoes that they'll never wear that pair again, so you might spot them later.
crashdive123
08-03-2015, 11:09 AM
I agree with Rick, my first reaction I hope would be to call law enforcement and report as an assult but not commit one. Wittnesses could see you take the drunk cyclist down but not him hit your wife and you would be in jail not him.
I have had people drive very close to me while I was crossing in a crosswalk on foot here in Texas. I bang the car metal with my hand then take out their taillight with a sock and coins or handle of my knife (over the years just expect to get hit when walking in TX, so be ready for it.). Then run and hide behind a light post because this is Texas not UK, many firearms in cars. Not much respect for pedestrians here, I noticed the laws are very different in Florida.
Don't know about Texas law, but in many jurisdictions this would be considered a crime, possibly even a felony. The probability of a very serious altercation occurring after such an act would likely be very high.
hunter63
08-03-2015, 11:35 AM
Don't know about Texas law, but in many jurisdictions this would be considered a crime, possibly even a felony. The probability of a very serious altercation occurring after such an act would likely be very high.
That's what I was thinking as well....
Milwaukee....they just shoot you.....
Tristar777
08-03-2015, 12:01 PM
Hi Everyone.
It is an emotive issue. I mean its natural to want to protect those that you love even if that means putting yourself in harms way to do so.
Im the sort of guy that will help anyone I see in trouble and I will also walk well out of the way to avoid trouble if it can be avoided.
The thing that took us by surprise I think was the "no time to think, just react!"
We have decided to keep a low profile over the coming days hopefully to put some time between the incident.
We are also going to add a couple of things like spare clothing in our edc bags, for our own comfort and benefit first but you never know if it could be needed again in a similar situation. (hopefully not!).
We live in a un predictable world which is changing quickly, and not always for the better!
My message to the USA from the UK would be "Hold onto your rights! Theyre coming for those even faster than your guns!"
Its gone too far and is too late here! So do not bow down to em!
Thanks for your comments and support, it means a lot.
On the up side, based on your description of the character, he might not even remember you. I'd be watchful and just a bit curious if you do see him what his reaction might be.
I do agree with you on avoidance. It is your first line of defense.
As for too late in the UK. Change begins at the ground roots level. I'm really hard pressed to understand how a people so close to being invaded in the first half of the 20th century and who endured invasion from just about all of your close and some distant neighbors would strangle the population with such restrictive and by all accounts Machiavellian weapons laws. Change starts with you.
Eastree
08-03-2015, 06:38 PM
This is also why we were reminded to look at people's shoes when I worked security; they'll change a jacket, shirt or hat, but rarely think to change shoes right away, and well used shoes tend to have distinctive wear patterns. Even if they do, most people don't own enough shoes that they'll never wear that pair again, so you might spot them later.
That's one I keep forgetting. I was actually advised of that (and tested on it repeatedly during employment orientation) at a retail job a number of years ago.
Adventure Wolf
08-03-2015, 06:39 PM
That's one I keep forgetting. I was actually advised of that (and tested on it repeatedly during employment orientation) at a retail job a number of years ago.
When I worked security back in college, I was told the same thing.
NightSG
08-04-2015, 12:58 PM
That's one I keep forgetting. I was actually advised of that (and tested on it repeatedly during employment orientation) at a retail job a number of years ago.
My security sites were all industrial, but I did some of the retail training just in case; the biggest advantage there is that if you think someone's ducked into a restroom, you can see the shoes under the stall doors and not have to stand around waiting for everybody to finish to get a look at their face and clothes.
TXyakr
08-04-2015, 01:51 PM
In 2010 a jogger, Lauren Huddleston, was struck by a cyclist on the Katy Trail in Dallas, Texas and killed. It was evidently mostly the jogger's fault according to witnesses (headphones, not looking), but a cyclist on a crowded city trail like this always has the responsibility to go slow and call out loudly which side they are passing on. Most do so and are very considerate but some do not. I am always very slow an cautious when I am the larger or faster vehicle and stay far to the side when I am the slower. But if assulted I will fight back and use whatever cover there is retreat to my vehicle where Texas law allows me to use deadly force from to defend my property not just my life. But always best not to provoke especially if the person is drunk. This changes everything and you no longer have the right to defend yourself if you provoked the aggressor.
Most cyclist in North Texas and most other parts of the world do NOT travel on the same paths as people walking unless they are moving very slow. That is what the roads are for and cycling clubs where large numbers of cyclists can travel more safety in groups.
In New York City's Central Park the bicycle speed limit was dropped from 25 to 20 mph in 2014 after 2 people died of bicycle colissions. I have seen New Yorkers yell at speeding cyclists in Central Park. But only the Cops and Criminals are armed in NYC, so best to improvise something. Fishing gear or walking cane or whatever. Rod holder put my pole in so sand and mud does not get in reel seems to be excessively sharp and steel not aluminum and requires vinyl tube sheath. Hope that is not too obvious.
Bicycle is a perfect get away vehicle in NYC/Manhattan.
NightSG
08-04-2015, 02:43 PM
In 2010 a jogger, Lauren Huddleston, was struck by a cyclist on the Katy Trail in Dallas, Texas and killed. It was evidently mostly the jogger's fault according to witnesses (headphones, not looking), but a cyclist on a crowded city trail like this always has the responsibility to go slow and call out loudly which side they are passing on.
Unfortunately, even the ones that hear you tend to go full retard when you try that; they either move left, or stop right there before you can move over.
TXyakr
08-04-2015, 03:10 PM
Don't know about Texas law, but in many jurisdictions this would be considered a crime, possibly even a felony. The probability of a very serious altercation occurring after such an act would likely be very high.
I observed when visiting Florida that the laws and public behavior there was different than in some parts of Texas. The only person I saw who almost ran over pedestrians in a crosswalk in Florida was a lady in a large SUV with Texas plates. In Texas it is less than 1 out of 100 that does this but best to always expect it and that they will blame you for damages to their vehicle for not jumping clear of the crosswalk in time. Then pull a firearm on you. But if you just assume this is the beginning of an assult by an armed soccer mom off her mediction you can take cover, possibly retreat to your vehicle limping or whatever and return fire from the far side. Hopefully she has not spent much time at the range recently and has a 2" barrel pink gun with terrible accuracy.
How many times have soccer moms pulled a gun on you? Lord knows I've had plenty talk me down and two or three poke me with 10 foot poles but I've never had one pull a gun. Even under Texas law if you are in a crosswalk following traffic signals YOU are in the right of way, not the driver. If someone hits you under those conditions you might just own there car before it's over with. Or house.
"A pedestrian facing a "Walk" signal may proceed across a roadway in the direction of the signal, and the operator of a vehicle shall yield the right-of-way to the pedestrian."
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/TN/htm/TN.552.htm
hunter63
08-04-2015, 05:32 PM
I observed when visiting Florida that the laws and public behavior there was different than in some parts of Texas. The only person I saw who almost ran over pedestrians in a crosswalk in Florida was a lady in a large SUV with Texas plates. In Texas it is less than 1 out of 100 that does this but best to always expect it and that they will blame you for damages to their vehicle for not jumping clear of the crosswalk in time. Then pull a firearm on you. But if you just assume this is the beginning of an assult by an armed soccer mom off her mediction you can take cover, possibly retreat to your vehicle limping or whatever and return fire from the far side. Hopefully she has not spent much time at the range recently and has a 2" barrel pink gun with terrible accuracy.
Sooo, what kind of disguise do you need to avoid those radical soccer Mom's that are out to "get ya".
Bhohahaha what a sight....."Hey, hey, hey...put down that pink thing......."
(Sorry got this image in my head......)
Tristar777
08-05-2015, 03:34 PM
Hi. The idea of extra clothing ( disguise may be the wrong image) is that the incident has already happened, you have been able to disengage without further contact and you now have to get to a safe place. We, thankfully, had read many articals/forums that gave us a heads up on not leading the "enemy" to your safe place, find a place with multi exits, and a place where you could change your appearance.
Then when returning to your safe place, using another form of transport so you don't have to walk through the danger area a second time.
Thank you US forums on Urban Survival!!
My edc hasn't changed a great deal, I have added "Grey man" clothing as a just in case answer to a future problem.
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yellowcab
10-19-2025, 11:06 AM
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yellowcab
03-31-2026, 08:48 AM
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rock (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/1780200)From (http://hangonpart.ru/t/1821835)Zone (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/1859302)журн (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/1579539)лито (http://hardasiron.ru/t/1490800)Dete (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/1517576)Susa (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/1568989)Joli (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/1532290)моде (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/1711488)Сома (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/1559301)сказ (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/1580409)попу (http://headregulator.ru/t/1567080)охра (http://heartofgold.ru/t/1752612)Афан (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/1793899)уров (http://heatinggas.ru/t/1604665)
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Guit (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/1881105)Afte (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/1951329)Zone (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/1827724)Прок (http://lamphouse.ru/t/1578053)Шмид (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/1577957)реко (http://lancingdie.ru/t/1408535)Писа (http://landingdoor.ru/t/1563565)Pict (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/1990510)Анис (http://landreform.ru/t/1585861)Волг (http://landuseratio.ru/t/1487986)Digi (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/1884256)памя (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1161897)каме (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/1434352)прод (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/796)цвет (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/591042)
yellowcab
03-31-2026, 08:50 AM
Миха (http://laterevent.ru/shop/1179005)Mabe (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/452149)Cata (http://layabout.ru/shop/599695)сала (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/600474)*стр (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/106451)стих (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/466138)Кара (http://leaveword.ru/shop/619757)Luxe (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/302375)Glam (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/576668)Jard (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/446412)Luka (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/269157)WALL (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/621889)проб (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/576984)Sony (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/612490)запа (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/1040546)
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