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xjosh40x
03-21-2015, 09:31 AM
In the military we are taught to use a topi map and plot 8 digit grid coordinates. Taught how to shoot asthmas and pace count and all that. It great for finding a exact point. But what if you're lost and don't have a topo map or compass. You know there is a road west or whichever direction. How would you find north and get a reading of direction. I learned using the sun and three sticks. Using the shadow of the sun going west to east and getting the direction of north. Tried this before during a field exercise and confirmed with a compass. It's accurate enough to get your tail out of the woods. I'm not great at reading the night sky so if I was lost at dark I'd be best to wait till day break.

What are some other techniques you guys have used?
pete lynch
03-21-2015, 11:58 AM
The hands of an analog watch and the sun.

This guy explains it a lot better than I can:
http://www.wikihow.com/Find-Direction-Using-a-Watch
xjosh40x
03-21-2015, 01:06 PM
I've heard of that technique but unfortunately I don't wear a mechanical watch. I wear a digital G-Shock I recieved from the military.
kyratshooter
03-21-2015, 01:26 PM
How do I find N/S/E/W ??

I look at the compass on my watchband, or the one on my key chain, or if it is winter the one on my coat zipper.

And that is when I am in town.

Why would anyone go to the "wilderness" without a compass. Even the TSA does not object to one having a compass on a flight!

Or, if one is east of the Mississippi River you sit down and listen for traffic noise.

Or if it is still the 21st century you pull up the GPS app on your phone.

Or if you are in my immediate area you watch the air. Descending planes are headed for the international airport. When I get there I can call a cab.
Seniorman
03-21-2015, 01:31 PM
" ... I'm not great at reading the night sky so if I was lost at dark I'd be best to wait till day break. ..."



If you're lost at night, you are far safer to hunker down and wait until dawn to start walking again. Stumbling through rough, unfamiliar terrain in the dark is very unwise.

At night, a very obvious star constellation is the Big Dipper. No matter the position in the sky, the star at the end of the lip of the Big Dipper always points to true north or the "North star." Note the North star and that is the direction you'll use the next morning. Place a stick on the ground pointing in that direction so you know where north is in the morning.

In the days of the great cattle drives in the old west, the cook would align the chuck wagon with its wagon tongue pointing north so that in the morning, it could be referenced for whatever direction the boss wanted to drive the cattle that day. They used the Big Dipper to find true north.

There are other methods but that is one good one.

S.M.
wilderness medic
03-21-2015, 01:47 PM
Generally just use look at the top before going somewhere, then a combination of knowing landmarks and using the sun for a general direction is enough.


I've never been able to use the north star. I don't get it...i've had night where I sit outside with a compass, and don't see how it's "pointing" north. Maybe i'm getting dizzy looking up or something...supposed to be really easy but it doesn't seem to always point north to me.
richbat
03-21-2015, 02:06 PM
Never had to use it but, I'd think maybe try going downhill to find water and following it downstream,might be a good idea but I'd definitely get out of the flood plain if it looks like you'll be staying overnight again.
hunter63
03-21-2015, 03:56 PM
I'm a compass guy....and carry one most always.
That said, I also a look over the area first, if possible to see where you are to start with, and where you are going

Not to much wild land, any longer....roads are everywhere, sometimes you just have to listen for traffic, or look for light.

Knowing where north is, helpful, but you still need to know where you are going.
Have used the north star Dig dipper to help find north.

Have used the down hill to water, power lines, and even con-trails to at least give me an idea which way to go.

Can't say I even had to do the "drop in middle of no-where, and find my way out".
RangerXanatos
03-21-2015, 07:24 PM
I've heard of that technique but unfortunately I don't wear a mechanical watch. I wear a digital G-Shock I recieved from the military.
Easy enough to convert the digital time to analog in the dirt.
RangerXanatos
03-21-2015, 07:27 PM
As for using the big dipper, you need a big enough opening in the tree canopy to find it. Its a rather big constilation and can be easily hidden in my lattitude during the right time.
wilderness medic
03-21-2015, 07:56 PM
As for using the big dipper, you need a big enough opening in the tree canopy to find it. Its a rather big constilation and can be easily hidden in my lattitude during the right time.

Am I just stupid? I lived in open farmlands and had absolutely no trouble finding the constellation. The north star just never seemed...north... It doesn't change...ever? Maybe my compasses were all off...
RangerXanatos
03-21-2015, 08:05 PM
Am I just stupid? I lived in open farmlands and had absolutely no trouble finding the constellation. The north star just never seemed...north... It doesn't change...ever? Maybe my compasses were all off...
Your compass points to magnetic north which moves about the pole. This is why it is important to check the bottom of maps for declination degrees and even when that map was printed. The higher latatude you have the more declination you have to correct for.

The north star points to true north which does not move.

The big dipper rotates around the north star so during some months of the year it is below the north star while other months it may be above or beside.
wilderness medic
03-21-2015, 08:11 PM
Your compass points to magnetic north which moves about the pole. This is why it is important to check the bottom of maps for declination degrees and even when that map was printed. The higher latatude you have the more declination you have to correct for.

The north star points to true north which does not move.

The big dipper rotates around the north star so during some months of the year it is below the north star while other months it may be above or beside.
Got that, but I was getting a reading around 90degrees off. The difference is usually pretty minimal. Nothing close to 90 ever right? Maybe it was just an old compass, or i'm just stupid. Haha...
madmax
03-21-2015, 08:12 PM
I'm big on sitting down 'til dawn. Pretty easy after that. From experience.
RangerXanatos
03-21-2015, 08:22 PM
Got that, but I was getting a reading around 90degrees off. The difference is usually pretty minimal. Nothing close to 90 ever right? Maybe it was just an old compass, or i'm just stupid. Haha...
In your area that would be impossible. Or unless we experience something like in "The day after tomorrow. " lol
wilderness medic
03-21-2015, 08:23 PM
In your area that would be impossible. Or unless we experience something like in "The day after tomorrow. " lol

I don't know, i'm pretty sure if i'm stupid in one place, i'm stupid pretty much everywhere.


On a serious note, sounds like it's a good thing I never needed to use that compass lol.... But then again I could have sworn by knowing the general direction of north the star was off....man. Shouldn't be a difficult thing form the sounds of it.
hayshaker
03-21-2015, 09:50 PM
Magnetic north has been changing going west for some time.
checking the date on your map is a good thing indeed.
Batch
03-21-2015, 11:38 PM
How do I find N/S/E/W ??

I look at the compass on my watchband, or the one on my key chain, or if it is winter the one on my coat zipper.

And that is when I am in town.

Why would anyone go to the "wilderness" without a compass. Even the TSA does not object to one having a compass on a flight!

Or, if one is east of the Mississippi River you sit down and listen for traffic noise.

Or if it is still the 21st century you pull up the GPS app on your phone.

Or if you are in my immediate area you watch the air. Descending planes are headed for the international airport. When I get there I can call a cab.

There are places down here where you can't hear the trucks on the main grade. Let alone the nearest paved road many miles away fromn that grade. You can get 19 some odd miles from the nearest road in South Florida. I don't think you'll hear anything that far out. Your GPS app will keep trying to hit a cell tower and a cell phone that will last days when you are in town will die quickly when it keeps trying to reach towers.

We have people that disappear when they can shout to their friends and hear the vehicles. You can hear your friends. But, you are lost any way for four days. You can get 19 miles from the nearest road easy.
Enigma
03-22-2015, 07:28 PM
The watch method and short time sunstick method are quite inaccurate.
Batch
03-22-2015, 09:01 PM
The watch method and short time sunstick method are quite inaccurate.

They are general rules. None of the methods that old navigators used were spot on. I have a bokk called, "Finding Your Way Without A Map Or Compass by renowned navigator Harold Gatty. The stuff in the book worked for him to navigate the globe by plane. It worked for people for thousands of years.

None are as accurate as a compass and a compass is only good with a map if you know your declination. And a map and a compass are only useful if you know how to use them. So one day some guy that has spent his whole life using a GPS is going to say that a compass is useless.

but, a general direction when you have nothing except a general idea of which way you need to go is better than nothing.

For instance if I am in the woods and have a good idea how far back in I am. I will know which way is the shortest distance back toward civilization or a cell signal. I can be off 30 degrees and still hit that road, canal, trail or what ever.

I carry compasses. I have recently taken to spending more time checking my heading. But, I did just fine for many decades without it. I think reading this site has me paranoid.

But, just because I am paranoid does not mean someone ain't following me! LOL
Enigma
03-23-2015, 03:10 AM
What is the point of teaching an innacurate method, when it can and does get people killed?

A 'general' direction, which can be out 30 degrees is not accurate enough to be teaching it.

It reminds me of the popular American myth still found in so called survival 'instructors' manuals over their in the states (in glorious colour photos) of using a condom for carrying water!

Thats has to be about the dumbest most useless modern ways of transporting water I could dream up, yet it's published for the world to see.

If you want to learn Nav, then learn it properly, and practise it, and you'll also laugh at ridiculous 'tips' like using an analogue whatch!!!!
pete lynch
03-23-2015, 05:00 AM
The OP pretty much asked what alternative methods people use to navigate. Are you assuming we don't know proper "Nav"?
You shouldn't.
crashdive123
03-23-2015, 05:40 AM
What is the point of teaching an innacurate method, when it can and does get people killed?

A 'general' direction, which can be out 30 degrees is not accurate enough to be teaching it.

It reminds me of the popular American myth still found in so called survival 'instructors' manuals over their in the states (in glorious colour photos) of using a condom for carrying water!

Thats has to be about the dumbest most useless modern ways of transporting water I could dream up, yet it's published for the world to see.

If you want to learn Nav, then learn it properly, and practise it, and you'll also laugh at ridiculous 'tips' like using an analogue whatch!!!!

As the Assistant Navigator on a United States Navy nuclear powered ballistic missile submarine, your definition of proper navigation and mine probably differ a bit.

I think everybody realizes that it may not be the most accurate method, but it is a method for one of those when all else fails sort of moments.
Rick
03-23-2015, 07:14 AM
It's becoming a bit clear that it's your way or no way. Not being able to think outside the box and not being able to utilize alternatives can and does get people killed. Not here in the States of course...I saw that on a reality show.
Old GI
03-23-2015, 08:35 AM
Magnetic north has been changing going west for some time.
checking the date on your map is a good thing indeed.

Checking the currency of data on maps is very important. A long time ago, while wintering in the Uwharrie National Forest, we had maps with 40 year old road data. It was something to watch, at 0300 or so, about 6 or 7 GIs taking the azimuth of the road and not finding it on the map. Lesson learned.

About that time, I developed my foolproof method of determining where I am. I stand up, put my left arm toward my front and my right arm out to the side. .................................................. ....................


Where they meet is where you are, every time!
Rick
03-23-2015, 09:21 AM
But that would be.....ooooh, I get it.
hunter63
03-23-2015, 11:42 AM
.............About that time, I developed my foolproof method of determining where I am. I stand up, put my left arm toward my front and my right arm out to the side. .................................................. ....................


Where they meet is where you are, every time!

Bhohahahah
You are where you are all the time.....scenery is just different.
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yellowcab
12-31-2025, 12:52 AM
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yellowcab
03-30-2026, 08:17 AM
убий (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/1796)137.6 (http://cottagenet.ru/plan/712)глаз (http://eyesvision.ru/lectures/311)CHAP (http://eyesvisions.com)Sono (http://factoringfee.ru/t/1126794)Nick (http://filmzones.ru/t/916961)Pete (http://gadwall.ru/t/897001)John (http://gaffertape.ru/t/1101704)Глав (http://gageboard.ru/t/1094290)Carl (http://gagrule.ru/t/842117)хоро (http://gallduct.ru/t/1162151)исто (http://galvanometric.ru/t/857159)Char (http://gangforeman.ru/t/1069675)XVII (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/1448643)Mich (http://garbagechute.ru/t/1144089)
Tesc (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/1027697)Kurb (http://gascautery.ru/t/1143965)Enjo (http://gashbucket.ru/t/817182)текс (http://gasreturn.ru/t/1144104)Крыш (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/831058)ценн (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/1161549)Sunr (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/1207889)Tesc (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/928388)Rond (http://geartreating.ru/t/928168)Clas (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/920925)Григ (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/854499)Gera (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/854045)Пушк (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/855718)фабр (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/855589)Пидо (http://getthebounce.ru/t/751449)
Trav (http://habeascorpus.ru/t/1088084)Down (http://habituate.ru/t/1090948)*адю (http://hackedbolt.ru/t/822224)Some (http://hackworker.ru/t/1122104)When (http://hadronicannihilation.ru/t/1102134)акад (http://haemagglutinin.ru/t/1095595)Либс (http://hailsquall.ru/t/812860)Wolf (http://hairysphere.ru/t/837969)Juli (http://halforderfringe.ru/t/781648)Соде (http://halfsiblings.ru/t/854277)Ящер (http://hallofresidence.ru/t/809697)Алек (http://haltstate.ru/t/860697)Susa (http://handcoding.ru/t/1027386)Clas (http://handportedhead.ru/t/1042182)XVII (http://handradar.ru/t/795876)
одно (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/836148)Coto (http://hangonpart.ru/t/862561)Яроч (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/717536)Wint (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/566980)Navi (http://hardasiron.ru/t/568157)XVII (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/808651)Бура (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/845335)Теша (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/670216)Нест (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/808680)2000 (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/953174)Иоан (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/816970)возг (http://headregulator.ru/t/1307301)Sela (http://heartofgold.ru/t/1547211)Walt (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/784834)Salv (http://heatinggas.ru/t/1189140)
Rach (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/1182274)Bhar (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/644883)Colo (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/636168)John (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/767687)Буты (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/639049)Detr (http://jobstress.ru/t/641756)писа (http://jogformation.ru/t/775756)Vogu (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/1147232)Funk (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/1147646)Пору (http://journallubricator.ru/t/1050428)Dima (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/1147254)Feli (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/1180153)ELEG (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/1181637)Eleg (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/1183020)молн (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/1179797)
Серк (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/1067805)Feel (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/623321)скла (http://kentishglory.ru/t/1182891)Osir (http://kerbweight.ru/t/1179641)Zone (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/608661)Miyo (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/610843)Sela (http://keyserum.ru/t/1180668)орга (http://kickplate.ru/t/882289)Side (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/1202256)Pame (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/781365)Gini (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/881642)*кс- (http://kinozones.ru/film/4244)Модз (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/681529)ориг (http://kneejoint.ru/t/833504)ААзи (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/1246641)
Ячей (http://knockonatom.ru/t/750478)Заве (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/833406)*омо (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/1230770)Zone (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/1194326)назв (http://laborracket.ru/t/1083076)Меща (http://labourearnings.ru/t/1442505)Бело (http://labourleasing.ru/t/1230715)Zone (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/1190378)diam (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/1188651)Zone (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/1188284)Zone (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/1186630)3280 (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/1184161)Zone (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/1191746)Zone (http://laggingload.ru/t/1190049)Zone (http://laissezaller.ru/t/1191674)
Zone (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/1191730)Zone (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/1193154)ЦП12 (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/1183971)diam (http://lamphouse.ru/t/1184858)diam (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/1184800)Zone (http://lancingdie.ru/t/1186227)Zone (http://landingdoor.ru/t/1188413)Zone (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/1184565)Zone (http://landreform.ru/t/1186713)Zone (http://landuseratio.ru/t/1185034)Zone (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/1190835)Лебе (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1160450)клей (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/589285)micr (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/196)поло (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/590144)
yellowcab
03-30-2026, 08:19 AM
Ситн (http://laterevent.ru/shop/1031252)Suss (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/453671)Teka (http://layabout.ru/shop/451792)Wind (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/163093)Evol (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/105456)City (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/455573)доро (http://leaveword.ru/shop/455902)Блин (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/157089)раст (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/353986)Life (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/177246)высо (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/146152)*осс (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/269343)ARAG (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/159956)STAR (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/159755)SUBA (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/613575)
аббр (http://manualchoke.ru/shop/598008)проф (http://medinfobooks.ru/book/1824)Mant (http://mp3lists.ru/item/3980)серт (http://nameresolution.ru/shop/563795)Rave (http://naphtheneseries.ru/shop/104726)Изго (http://narrowmouthed.ru/shop/460788)рабо (http://nationalcensus.ru/shop/470177)Lego (http://naturalfunctor.ru/shop/122258)Wind (http://navelseed.ru/shop/100892)язык (http://neatplaster.ru/shop/454582)neue (http://necroticcaries.ru/shop/167333)Inte (http://negativefibration.ru/shop/185456)Mist (http://neighbouringrights.ru/shop/446556)подз (http://objectmodule.ru/shop/108614)Drem (http://observationballoon.ru/shop/95427)
Smil (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/98402)Inca (http://oceanmining.ru/shop/570093)Euka (http://octupolephonon.ru/shop/571734)Андр (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/147972)Ерма (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/200731)Став (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/147771)Лит* (http://onesticket.ru/shop/578326)колл (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/580240)Лит* (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/682190)Вишн (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/680793)Маме (http://palmberry.ru/shop/345214)XXIV (http://papercoating.ru/shop/581628)Лит* (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/685649)совр (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1166960)Юмор (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1167011)
XVII (http://partfamily.ru/shop/1165978)Егор (http://partialmajorant.ru/shop/1168810)Влас (http://quadrupleworm.ru/shop/1538852)семи (http://qualitybooster.ru/shop/391378)Иллю (http://quasimoney.ru/shop/594000)Blue (http://quenchedspark.ru/shop/595292)Жига (http://quodrecuperet.ru/shop/1047543)Заха (http://rabbetledge.ru/shop/1072206)Sams (http://radialchaser.ru/shop/179747)Семе (http://radiationestimator.ru/shop/477613)Гран (http://railwaybridge.ru/shop/512428)Козу (http://randomcoloration.ru/shop/511450)Серг (http://rapidgrowth.ru/shop/765322)Черк (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru/shop/1077338)Бонд (http://reachthroughregion.ru/shop/315147)
Васи (http://readingmagnifier.ru/shop/506881)Алек (http://rearchain.ru/shop/640397)Каль (http://recessioncone.ru/shop/515467)Сазе (http://recordedassignment.ru/shop/879629)худо (http://rectifiersubstation.ru/shop/1053125)книг (http://redemptionvalue.ru/shop/1061686)Вави (http://reducingflange.ru/shop/1677016)Happ (http://referenceantigen.ru/shop/1692865)Добр (http://regeneratedprotein.ru/shop/1757995)Vene (http://reinvestmentplan.ru/shop/121802)Sabb (http://safedrilling.ru/shop/1812972)Sony (http://sagprofile.ru/shop/1052936)АБНи (http://salestypelease.ru/shop/1065863)Side (http://samplinginterval.ru/shop/1423036)Квит (http://satellitehydrology.ru/shop/1461315)
Нико (http://scarcecommodity.ru/shop/1486963)Жуко (http://scrapermat.ru/shop/1461300)Тепл (http://screwingunit.ru/shop/1493191)Плеш (http://seawaterpump.ru/shop/1283088)DEFA (http://secondaryblock.ru/shop/266916)Соло (http://secularclergy.ru/shop/313940)Галу (http://seismicefficiency.ru/shop/110709)Шлоп (http://selectivediffuser.ru/shop/398742)Blac (http://semiasphalticflux.ru/shop/399686)исто (http://semifinishmachining.ru/shop/460222)micr (http://spicetrade.ru/spice_zakaz/196)micr (http://spysale.ru/spy_zakaz/196)micr (http://stungun.ru/stun_zakaz/196)Лыко (http://tacticaldiameter.ru/shop/482107)Mich (http://tailstockcenter.ru/shop/489456)
Авер (http://tamecurve.ru/shop/475785)Baka (http://tapecorrection.ru/shop/482335)Kame (http://tappingchuck.ru/shop/486018)Иван (http://taskreasoning.ru/shop/498259)Good (http://technicalgrade.ru/shop/1820151)Мака (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru/shop/1876290)Миро (http://telescopicdamper.ru/shop/644221)Кацн (http://temperateclimate.ru/shop/322855)Остр (http://temperedmeasure.ru/shop/399671)Crag (http://tenementbuilding.ru/shop/978890)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)объе (http://ultramaficrock.ru/shop/979654)насл (http://ultraviolettesting.ru/shop/482461)