survive freezing temp outdoors ?

[hgy]

In a well constructed shelter , with or without a fire, would i be able to survive long term in temperature of -4 ~ -20 F ?

[pete lynch]

Tick tock...
Why don't you tell us what you think. Beings as you have not told us one thing about yourself.

[1stimestar]

What kind of gear do you have on? The answer will be different if you are wearing shorts, a halter top, and flip flops, then if you are wearing Carhart Arctic Bibs and bunny boots.

[Rick]

I do all the time. With fire of course. My home is pretty well constructed and serves as a great shelter.

[hunter63]

In a well constructed shelter , with or without a fire, would i be able to survive long term in temperature of -4 ~ -20 F ?

Guess that's up to you?........What are you wearing?

There is an intro section at
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?14-Introductions

[crashdive123]

In order for us to help you, you may want to read through this and use what is pertinent. http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?5477-Survival-Scenario-Check-List

[tundrabadger]

the shelter counts for a lot. pay particular attention to that when you're giving us the scenario. Cause it's like Rick said... shelter can mean a lot. I'm currently living through an Ottawa winter in a modestly sized shelter built from bricks and heated by burning natural gas. This is not an impressive feat.

[1stimestar]

Man survives fall through ice, three days outside near Barrow
Jillian Rogers|The Arctic Sounder|

December 26, 2014


A human’s will to survive can reach unbelievable limits but what happened to Barrow’s Craig Johnson last week can only be described as a miracle.


Johnson, 38, crashed through the sea ice on his snowmachine last Monday during a trip from Wainwright to Barrow and managed to survive outside for three days before being rescued.



Along with being in wet, then frozen, clothes and enduring subzero temperatures with a wind chill estimated at 35 below zero, Johnson was being stalked by a wolverine, which he tried to shoot but ultimately ended up keeping at bay by stabbing at it with a stick. Johnson suffered severe frostbite, hypothermia, dehydration and internal injuries from the snowmachine crash but he is alive and recovering at an Anchorage hospital.


How he survived is a mystery.


“We have repeatedly asked that question amongst ourselves,” said April Brower, the director of the North Slope Borough Search and Rescue Department. “I think it had a lot to do with his will to live.”


On Dec. 15, Johnson left Wainwright and headed for Barrow, about 80 miles away. About halfway, his snowmachine broke through the ice and Johnson was submerged in water up to his chest, Brower said on Monday.


He managed to get out of the ocean and, after spending an indeterminate amount of time on the sea ice, made his way in frozen clothes about 1.5 miles inland to the closest thing to shelter he could find, a platform that is used in the spring, summer and fall to erect wall tents that house hunters, Brower said. There was no heat source and Johnson did not have the tools to start a fire, nor did he have any survival gear with him, she added.


Johnson crawled inside, or under, the platform and stayed there for three days. During that time, he was stalked by a wolverine. He emptied his gun trying to shoot the animal and wound up jabbing at it whenever it came close, Brower said.


“There were some foxes too but they didn’t bother him as much,” Brower said. “It was the wolverine that gave him some problems.”


The rescue efforts began after Johnson’s friend in Wainwright called in the overdue person report.


Over the three days that followed, volunteer searchers from Barrow, Wainwright and Atqasuk were mobilized on snowmachines, in a plane and in a helicopter.


On Dec. 18 at about 6 p.m., Johnson was located. Rescuers on snowmachines had circled the platform without seeing any tracks or signs of him. It wasn’t until they heard him yelling -- over the sound of their running snowmachines -- that he was found and airlifted by helicopter first to Samuel Simmonds Memorial Hospital in Barrow, then medevacked to Anchorage.


The rescue effort involved dozens of people on snowmachines, a Beechcraft King Air turboprop aircraft, a Bell 412 helicopter and a tracked tundra vehicle using grid patterns to search the vast Arctic expanse.


Johnson wasn’t wearing a personal locator beacon (PLB) and his personal GPS sank with his snowmachine.



According to a post-*rescue report, the helicopter flew over him on the coast on the first day but it was dark and snowing, and though the crews were using night-*vision goggles, they did not spot him. He didn't have any other signaling device.


Chief Pilot Richard Patterson flew along the coast with the King Air TABI (electronic imaging) on the first flight. A helicopter equipped with searchlights was also seen in the vicinity, according to what Johnson told rescuers, but it was not close enough to spot him.


The temperatures were subzero on all three days Johnson was missing.


“When they found him, he was frozen chest-*high,” Brower said. “From what my guys told me, he was in a lot of pain.”


Clifford Benson, a Barrow*-based borough employee of the Search and Rescue Department, found Johnson approximately 40 miles from Barrow near Peard Bay. When they found Johnson, rescuers erected a tent to try to warm him up before the helicopter arrived.


“Our department used every resource that we could think of and … it took a lot of people for this mission,” Brower said. “It never got to the point where we were going to look for a body instead of a person.”


Brower added that personal locator beacons are free for public use in Barrow and other North Slope communities, and urged hunters and travelers to use one and write down their trip plan before heading out.


She added that once a PLB is activated, search and rescue personnel start looking within half an hour if the weather is safe enough.


“We’re just really happy with this successful search,” Brower said.


According to the Alaska Native Medical Center and Providence Health and Services, Johnson is not a patient there. A call to Alaska Regional was not returned by press time.


http://www.adn.com/article/20141226/man-survives-fall-through-ice-three-days-outside-near-barrow

[finallyME]

Like others are alluding to, the type of shelter will determine the answer to your specific question. "Well constructed" is very vague.

[kyratshooter]

I hope this link works.

It is supposed to be a link to Happy People, a Year in the Taiga.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xw06wh_happy-people-a-year-in-the-taiga-2011-russia-siberia_shortfilms

People have been living in crude shelters and surviving artic conditions since the ice ages, and still are today.

We even had one president, Abe Lincoln, who was born mid-winter in a "half faced shelter" deep in the Kentucky woods.

A half faced shelter was a three sided lean too made from debris and usually roofed with slabs of hickory bark.

Modern outdoorsmen use tents that are better then the "cabins" that were the normal frontier homes of 150 years ago.

[MrFixIt]

the shelter counts for a lot. pay particular attention to that when you're giving us the scenario. Cause it's like Rick said... shelter can mean a lot. I'm currently living through an Ottawa winter in a modestly sized shelter built from bricks and heated by burning natural gas. This is not an impressive feat.

This is good! I love the play of words!
:nod:

[hunter63]

Hummmm....Thinking Drive-by?

[kyratshooter]

Hummmm....Thinking Drive-by?

Of course it was!

It was day 2 of the return to school and the "what did I do over the holidays" paper was not done on time. Mom chewed his butt after the teacher called and he was contemplating escaping the parental bond with a ROTTW.

He was just checking to see if he was going to get cold and wet because he is not allowed to have a lighter yet.

That and he forgot his password, does not know how to retrieve it, and can not log back in.

[tundrabadger]

This is good! I love the play of words!
:nod:
Why thank you.


Pity he was just passing through. Actually could have been a good discussion.

[kyratshooter]

We have had lots so good discussions with folks that never showed up again !!!

But this is nothing compared to some.

Over on Survival Boards they have a thread that started as a request to delete that has run more than 300 pages and 6,770 posts !!

http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=80185&highlight=delete+post

[TXyakr]

In a well constructed shelter , with or without a fire, would i be able to survive long term in temperature of -4 ~ -20 F ?

Many good articles have been written by far more experience people than me on actual OUTDOOR survival in sub-Zero F temps with no external heat source, but a few basic principles are:

1. even a snow or ice "cave" can be used to prevent the temperature from dropping but…
(other materials are often better) Some folks above the arctic circle have been doing this for over 1000 years.

2. best to keep the interior space as small as possible to trap as much of your body's heat as possible

3. minimize moisture, because moisture increases the heat transfer from your body up to 25X in worst case.

4. reduce flow of air (exterior wind) but some flow may allow your moisture transpiring from your body to escape which will condensate and can cause you to be colder.

5. Insulate your body from the ground and especially from wind blowing under you. Pad with closed cell foam and a radiant heat barrier is good but if not then evergreen leaves and tree branches or dead debris may help.

6. If you are lucky enough to have a chemical hot pad (mybodycomfort dot com or similar many other brands NEVER pay full retail look for a 60-80% discount) then at about 2-4am activate it and place beside your femoral artery (also good when hunting or football games etc). Your circulatory system will assist in warming up your entire body this way. A simple soft water canteen also works but you need to start a camp stove and heat up the water, not as convenient.

7. Obviously proper apparel and sleeping systems are critical. If cost is an issue and not bulk or weight consider shopping locally and online for a Military Modular Sleep System (MMSS) with Goretex Bivy Cover, some are way over priced so be aware of that (buy at discount!) and only a few are rated for very low temperatures. I have a 0F TNF bag which requires extra layers to go below 0F, not a problem to layer multiple bags, just be careful not to lose loft. (loft = dead air space)

8. And always eat something before going to bed (preferably protein). If you are digesting, your body will be "burning" more calories.

edit one of many MMSS reviews:
http://woodtrekker.blogspot.com/2014/05/us-military-modular-sleep-system-mss.html

(7 details) Often I just wear a fleece beanie, but if it is about 20-40F when I go to sleep I will wear a Polypropylene Balaclava (from "military surplus" retailer), below that a fleece or wool balaclava and if it is well below 0F one of natural animal fur: sheep shearling is good, beaver is best.

Goose down booties are great for feet, cost at least $60 but instructions online how to make your own if you know how to sew. I have considered trying Gore-Tex socks for the vapor barrier effect but not yet tried it. I also wear good gloves or mittens obviously, prefer mittens. Check out BlackRock hat, Balaclava and mitts at: http://www.blackrockgear.com

If you prefer not to lay on the ground like a dog you can alway hang between two trees down to about -20 or even -40F (rarely) like Shug and his friends do at the Frozen Butt Hang every Winter in MN


http://youtu.be/FEzq2iidxNs

[TXyakr]

"Lambeau" field today it is about +20°F compared to Dec 1967 when Cowboys versus G.B. "Packards" it was about -20°F when a hot pad in your pants would have been helpful.
My wife's response when up there was how does such a small town support a NFL team. Mine was EVERY THING is painted in team colors throughout this small town they are VERY well supported LOL. Not much of anything else to do, cow tipping gets old.

[hunter63]

"Lambeau" field today it is about +20°F compared to Dec 1967 when Cowboys versus G.B. "Packards" it was about -20°F when a hot pad in your pants would have been helpful.
My wife's response when up there was how does such a small town support a NFL team. Mine was EVERY THING is painted in team colors throughout this small town they are VERY well supported LOL. Not much of anything else to do, cow tipping gets old.

Well, Cowboys going home....Pack moving on.....

BTW..... DD and I are stock owners.....So around here the Packers are considered a family business .

[1stimestar]

In a well constructed shelter , with or without a fire, would i be able to survive long term in temperature of -4 ~ -20 F ?


Also, there is a big difference between -4 and -20. -4 very doable. -20 requires more gear, more work, etc. but is also doable.

[hunter63]

We have had lots so good discussions with folks that never showed up again !!!

But this is nothing compared to some.

Over on Survival Boards they have a thread that started as a request to delete that has run more than 300 pages and 6,770 posts !!

http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=80185&highlight=delete+post


That is one forum that keep sending me e-mail ads, but locks me out of the forum....I even redid my pass word....No go..
You may NOT post
You may Not start a thread...
Blah, blah.....
If you ever read the "Contact Us" section......Guy says he's tired of e-mails, so won't even answer a question.

I can see why they have a deleted thread go on that long.......LOL

[Adventure Wolf]

That is one forum that keep sending me e-mail ads, but locks me out of the forum....I even redid my pass word....No go..
You may NOT post
You may Not start a thread...
Blah, blah.....
If you ever read the "Contact Us" section......Guy says he's tired of e-mails, so won't even answer a question.

I can see why they have a deleted thread go on that long.......LOL

That board is in a state of anarchy.

[crashdive123]

I visited that board once. It didn't take long to realize that I didn't need to visit a second time.

[1stimestar]

Yep, staying right here.

[Rick]

What's this talk about "other forums". Sounds like Stalanist propaganda to me!

[hunter63]

I just want to tell them not to send me ads anymore....LOL....
Naw, not even gonna waste my time....
Here is home.

[scumbucket]

My bug out place is underground and I can heat it with a lantern if need to. I have winter clothes, boots and rainwear to help out, gloves, head gear, and all I need to survive til I get to my shelter. I also like the wildwood survival shelters made of stuff from the forest floor. Three feet of leaves and bark make a shelter one doesn't need anything but body heat. Very good ideas there. I've been an outdoorsman for sixty years so it's no big deal for me. Experience is the answer

[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

�айт (http://audiobookkeeper.ru)�айт (http://cottagenet.ru)�айт (http://eyesvision.ru)�айт (http://eyesvisions.com)�айт (http://factoringfee.ru)�айт (http://filmzones.ru)�айт (http://gadwall.ru)�айт (http://gaffertape.ru)�айт (http://gageboard.ru)�айт (http://gagrule.ru)�айт (http://gallduct.ru)�айт (http://galvanometric.ru)�айт (http://gangforeman.ru)�айт (http://gangwayplatform.ru)�айт (http://garbagechute.ru)
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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

аÑ�ро (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/1402)230 (http://cottagenet.ru/plan/318)ухуд (http://eyesvision.ru/lectures/9)Bett (http://eyesvisions.com)Ð*Ñ‹Ñ‚Ñ… (http://factoringfee.ru/t/855810)Noki (http://filmzones.ru/t/391509)зачи (http://gadwall.ru/t/487657)Евдо (http://gaffertape.ru/t/813887)Стел (http://gageboard.ru/t/836177)изуч (http://gagrule.ru/t/395888)Кели (http://gallduct.ru/t/823372)Ð�рти (http://galvanometric.ru/t/440545)EXPE (http://gangforeman.ru/t/354411)ПолÑ� (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/831244)Полу (http://garbagechute.ru/t/1082375)
Пари (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/295252)Перв (http://gascautery.ru/t/856004)Fami (http://gashbucket.ru/t/448359)друг (http://gasreturn.ru/t/855566)Tren (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/559782)чита (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/1051819)Pros (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/850389)Дмит (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/677515)�бор (http://geartreating.ru/t/675077)Curv (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/572490)Ecli (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/559486)Tesc (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/560349)Colo (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/139926)Jule (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/202178)Acca (http://getthebounce.ru/t/142482)
Jame (http://habeascorpus.ru/t/742764)(197 (http://habituate.ru/t/808702)Mult (http://hackedbolt.ru/t/388251)Plat (http://hackworker.ru/t/758972)хоро (http://hadronicannihilation.ru/t/757798)Mann (http://haemagglutinin.ru/t/756581)Taft (http://hailsquall.ru/t/306176)Burt (http://hairysphere.ru/t/494430)Head (http://halforderfringe.ru/t/561660)Pale (http://halfsiblings.ru/t/562622)Luxe (http://hallofresidence.ru/t/563009)�ерт (http://haltstate.ru/t/505247)Spik (http://handcoding.ru/t/737737)арми (http://handportedhead.ru/t/910441)Rene (http://handradar.ru/t/562261)
нача (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/225724)Earl (http://hangonpart.ru/t/526436)Open (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/557321)Бары (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/431750)7547 (http://hardasiron.ru/t/566400)Reco (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/566918)Adie (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/567591)Fiel (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/141719)gunm (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/601581)Susa (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/677259)�о�т (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/287174)Mout (http://headregulator.ru/t/625951)Иллю (http://heartofgold.ru/t/806385)Knab (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/458232)Jame (http://heatinggas.ru/t/845236)
парт (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/787125)Koff (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/602922)FELI (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/601960)Acce (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/607405)коле (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/603426)коле (http://jobstress.ru/t/603416)карм (http://jogformation.ru/t/608283)реда (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/676268)Кут� (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/820493)Read (http://journallubricator.ru/t/538834)Poul (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/654406)Гига (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/521296)�лек (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/672972)Конд (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/438964)Sher (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/767399)
Ле�н (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/671999)2111 (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/610284)�обы (http://kentishglory.ru/t/681594)�нци (http://kerbweight.ru/t/679074)LAPI (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/606464)Zone (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/608932)Fyod (http://keyserum.ru/t/762552)Extr (http://kickplate.ru/t/162123)Федо (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/655257)Zone (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/606469)Zone (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/609365)жизн (http://kinozones.ru/film/3850)�Ц12 (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/611125)Zone (http://kneejoint.ru/t/605311)Joha (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/772466)
Zone (http://knockonatom.ru/t/607739)�ере (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/605142)Тауш (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/669235)Bonu (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/1115022)Erne (http://laborracket.ru/t/296300)Перв (http://labourearnings.ru/t/765882)Баду (http://labourleasing.ru/t/820513)Krus (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/844992)Гити (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/835972)движ (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/848256)Сели (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/838581)Серо (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/750392)Scru (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/468586)XVII (http://laggingload.ru/t/669729)�бор (http://laissezaller.ru/t/760564)
Ashw (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/638728)Форм (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/417514)Соде (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/670931)Cath (http://lamphouse.ru/t/771780)трил (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/667764)Righ (http://lancingdie.ru/t/464323)Иллю (http://landingdoor.ru/t/669206)Шепе (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/806352)Бреп (http://landreform.ru/t/813832)опуб (http://landuseratio.ru/t/760935)Само (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/830432)Lond (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1159482)Marq (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/151819)ме�� (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/1959)XVII (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/588663)

[yellowcab]

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