View Full Version : paleoman survival kit how would you build yours?
hayshaker
10-05-2014, 01:14 PM
while looking at a little neck knife on my desk deer antler and jasper tip
i got to thinking what would paleoman carry in his survival pouch.
some flint or chert some tinder but what else? i,m sure he wore
his knife on his side spear in hand. but his PSK what would it have consisted of?
that,s a deep question concidering he lived 10,000 years ago. a sewing or fishing kit?
who knows how would you build yours?
hunter63
10-05-2014, 01:32 PM
This site has some pretty good info...
http://www.iceman.it/en/clothing-equipment
Example under Medicine> quote
tzi's First-Aid Kit
The Iceman also carried a modest first-aid kit.
His implements included two hide strips, on to each of which a round lump of material had been threaded. The strips were attached to tzis clothing. Analysis showed that these lumps consisted of the fruiting body of the birch polypore fungus.
Right up until the 20th century such bracket fungi were used for many medicinal purposes.
<quote
hayshaker
10-05-2014, 01:53 PM
after wood chores i,m going to start one. some items i already have
kyratshooter
10-05-2014, 05:12 PM
Otzi's belt contained a survival kit with tinder fungus, pyrite for striking a fire and several flint micro-blades.
That was in addition to his belt knife and hatchet, the bow and arrows he was building, the pack and all his specialized clothing.
That old boy had been around the mountain a time or two.
hayshaker
10-05-2014, 05:49 PM
kyratshooter, what is pyrite and could flint for a bp rifle be conciderd a micro flint
cause i made some some time back..
yep gotta admit he was a true survivalist for sure.
hunter63
10-05-2014, 05:55 PM
kyratshooter, what is pyrite and could flint for a bp rifle be conciderd a micro flint
cause i made some some time back..
yep gotta admit he was a true survivalist for sure.
Not a survivalist....that's just the way then all lived....no different than stuff you do today to get by......Just different.
In a raw hide pouch around my neck I carry a case folding trapper knife, ferro rd/stryker, small vial potassium permanganate for water purification,small vial Cayenne pepper for stopping bleeding, small plastic bag with petroleum cotton balls (2). This is my PSK that and what I have on my person will suffice well if all else is lost.
kyratshooter
10-05-2014, 08:41 PM
kyratshooter, what is pyrite and could flint for a bp rifle be conciderd a micro flint
cause i made some some time back..
yep gotta admit he was a true survivalist for sure.
Pyrite is a naturally occurring Iron alloy, usually found in stream beds. It will spark just like a ferro rod when struck. If you ever want to see fireworks use a piece of broken glass or a piece of flint on your ferro rod. The thing will practically explode.
A micro blade is a spall fractured from a larger core and is usually untouched or not shaped before use. Any knapper will attest that the razor sharp flakes knocked off a core will do a wide variety of cutting chores. Usually native American butchering sites are littered with these flint chips where they were used until dull, thrown away and a new flake knocked off a core to replace them. Apparently they did not stand around re-chipping dull edges if there was plenty of core material around.
A rifle or musket flint is about the size of small micro-flints but they are shaped for their specific purpose and not real useful for anything else.
And like Hunter said, we use the word "survivalist" out of context. Otzi was just another guy out in the woods, using the tools of his culture.
And less we forget,
!!! HE DID NOT SURVIVE !!!
hayshaker
10-05-2014, 08:57 PM
as for the pyrite i think i saw some once in a stream they lokked like rusty stones in the stream.
when yousay a flake knocked off a spall i know that it,s just when you called it a microblade i got fuzzy.
Tristar777
10-06-2014, 07:34 AM
Pyrite is a naturally occurring Iron alloy, usually found in stream beds. It will spark just like a ferro rod when struck. If you ever want to see fireworks use a piece of broken glass or a piece of flint on your ferro rod. The thing will practically explode.
A micro blade is a spall fractured from a larger core and is usually untouched or not shaped before use. Any knapper will attest that the razor sharp flakes knocked off a core will do a wide variety of cutting chores. Usually native American butchering sites are littered with these flint chips where they were used until dull, thrown away and a new flake knocked off a core to replace them. Apparently they did not stand around re-chipping dull edges if there was plenty of core material around.
A rifle or musket flint is about the size of small micro-flints but they are shaped for their specific purpose and not real useful for anything else.
And like Hunter said, we use the word "survivalist" out of context. Otzi was just another guy out in the woods, using the tools of his culture.
And less we forget,
!!! HE DID NOT SURVIVE !!!
As you quite rightly say he didn't survive but in his defence , he didn't die of natural causes! No matter what you carry and what skills you have, if you are shot in the back they wont help!
I'm not sure why I would want to carry a paleo survival kit when we have items available to us that are so much better. The idea is to survive so why not utilize those items that will give you the best chance of doing so? Paleo man kept their items until something better came along then they upgraded. Just like we do today.
hayshaker
10-06-2014, 08:46 AM
rick, yes we do have much better tools at our disposal today but to make such akit
and use it if any thing to give us a reaistic idea on the most basic tools use for survival
to mabey gain an understanding of survival 4,500 years ago.
a paleo journey if you will.
to try to understand ,mabey just how did they live using the most rudimentery of tools.
sure technology has made survival easier as compared to then. but to try firsthand
a understanding of our beginings of where it all began. i guess that,s all im trying to say.
to make and use a real copper ax like OTZI used would at least be quite interresting i think
it gives us pause to consider the vast changes in technology from then till today.
how many have ever made or used a bone scrapper,copper ax, a sewing awl,or bone needle,
and so on. i think it,s worth the effort.
your_comforting_company
10-06-2014, 08:54 AM
Would this be for a day bag, or for general survival for an undetermined period of time? That would make a lot of difference in what you would carry. Do you need to move fire, or start a new one? Is this a hunt, or a migration?
hunter63
10-06-2014, 09:57 AM
Interesting point, moving fire....as rements of birch bark containers were found with what had ben green plats and charcoal.......suggesting a fire carrying container.
>
The Birch-Bark Containers
The two birch-bark containers are shaped in the form of cylindrical pots. The slightly oval-shaped base has a diameter of 15–18 cm. The wall section is around 20 cm high and is formed by a rolled rectangular piece of bark. Holes were made along the edges of the individual parts, which were then stitched together with bast.
Compared to ceramic vessels, birch-bark receptacles were much lighter and less fragile, making them ideal for an excursion into the high mountains.< quote
The interior of one of the containers was blackened and contained freshly picked maple leaves peppered with various plant remains and traces of charcoal. This container was therefore probably used for keeping embers alight, with the leaves serving as insulating material. The Iceman had probably kindled his last fire with those embers.> quote
Again from
http://www.iceman.it/en/node/285
My thinking on using old ways is simply, to try to be as good as some one that did it that way as a matter of course.....
So, paleo living, or mountain man re-enacting,....making stone points or collecting antique utensils for use.....all in the same line of thinking....as Naked and Afraid (TV show)....
.
"Can I do it....Must have been a real PITA....but can I?"
To just say there are newer and better products out there is a real short and simple answer......Point is "Yeah, I know......BUT can I do it the old way....I like to know and try it."
I understand your journey. Wanting to learn is a good and worthy goal. It just concerned me that you wanted to carry it as a survival kit.
You probably want some way to carry honey as an antibiotic and be VERY familiar with medicinal herbs and plants.
hunter63
10-06-2014, 11:02 AM
.....Yeah....we do get involved in cover your butte stuff.....
Park the truck over the hill.....LOL
Hey, I learned that one early on. My first car didn't have a starter. Well, it had one but it didn't work. Had to park on the down hill side. It didn't have brakes either but that's another story.
hunter63
10-06-2014, 11:17 AM
....wasn't a '57 Ford was it?....
Had one as well. wouldn't start. had straight pipes, and the only gear left was High....no low, second, or reverse.
Had to park on the hill, coast down, pop the clutch, then slip it to get going.
Future FIL at the time, paid for a transmission and starter, just so it was quieter when I left GF house at O' dark thirty.......
crashdive123
10-06-2014, 12:06 PM
For me - learning and being able to use primitive skills is a fun thing and falls into the hobby category. When it comes to life saving - I'm using the most modern items that I have at my disposal.
hunter63
10-06-2014, 12:13 PM
Well, at least we haven't fell into the "What is the best flint...........?"or "Get your mammoth sinew at Amazon dot con"
I just find it interesting.......
kyratshooter
10-06-2014, 01:02 PM
I'm with Crash on this subject.
Primitive skills are a learning experience, not a living experience.
I was watching an episode of NCIS the other night and they kept showing primitive skills being attempted. In each case someone came up with the item needed out of pocket and spoiled the effort. It was quite humorous.
I have more gear, and better gear, on my keychain than Otzi had.
And in practical terms, in whatever crisis might come along, there is enough scrap metal lying around to keep humans out of the stone tool business for a long, long time.
crashdive123
10-06-2014, 03:45 PM
Oh, don't get me wrong - I find it interesting as well. I am fascinated by the research into topics like this.
hunter63
10-06-2014, 03:49 PM
I guess I have to say that it really seems like these methods are being blown off........Kinda surprised me.....LOL
My nurse is here to take me back to assisted living now......
I wasn't blowing him off. I think what he is doing is commendable and I look forward to seeing what he creates. I was just concerned that he was relying on those items for a survival kit. That was what he called it. Let's face it, when you fall out of the deer stand and land on your cell phone crushing it along with your ankle it's up to you to stay alive long enough for someone to find you and not freeze to death in the process. And you probably want the best tools available to do that. My gear will let me comfortably splint that ankle, take something to take the edge off the pain and enjoy a hot cup of coffee or hot chocolate while I wait for help to finally get there. Paleo medical gear just doesn't hold a candle to today's stuff, especially if bleeding is involved.
hunter63
10-06-2014, 04:51 PM
I took it as a "what if you only had.......what could you use"....rather that a literal I'm gonna depend on it......
Agreed that the new gear and methods are far superior...........
I'm done.
your_comforting_company
10-09-2014, 08:35 AM
They (newfangled gadgets) are superior. That's the advantage of time always moving forward. BUT, what do you do when you Bare Grills knife falls apart because it was made by a 9 year old girl in a Chinese slave factory? Knowledge is lightweight and as compact as you'll ever get. When your gear fails, you better be able to tap that brain for ways to keep living. The alternative is not going to make anyone happy.
fjrmurph
10-09-2014, 08:50 PM
Pyrite is a naturally occurring Iron alloy, usually found in stream beds. It will spark just like a ferro rod when struck. If you ever want to see fireworks use a piece of broken glass or a piece of flint on your ferro rod. The thing will practically explode.
A micro blade is a spall fractured from a larger core and is usually untouched or not shaped before use. Any knapper will attest that the razor sharp flakes knocked off a core will do a wide variety of cutting chores. Usually native American butchering sites are littered with these flint chips where they were used until dull, thrown away and a new flake knocked off a core to replace them. Apparently they did not stand around re-chipping dull edges if there was plenty of core material around.
A rifle or musket flint is about the size of small micro-flints but they are shaped for their specific purpose and not real useful for anything else.
And like Hunter said, we use the word "survivalist" out of context. Otzi was just another guy out in the woods, using the tools of his culture.
And less we forget,
!!! HE DID NOT SURVIVE !!!.
He lived to a fine old age of 45 years, amazing for those times, It wasn't his survivial skills that were lacking, website says he died due to an arrow head in his left shoulder and cuts on his hand indicate he was in hand to hand combat days before he died. I's say he was one tough cat !!!!!!!!
I'm not sure why I would want to carry a paleo survival kit when we have items available to us that are so much better. The idea is to survive so why not utilize those items that will give you the best chance of doing so? Paleo man kept their items until something better came along then they upgraded. Just like we do today.
New is not always better, being familiar (couch survivalist) and actually practicing primative skills is an asset. Knowledge and experience cannot be left at home or lost in the field. New and improved products are indeed great but without them what would you do without knowledge of primative skills. As we have all heard before "The more you know, the less you carry"
For what its worth in my opinion the true survivalist walks the line between both new and improved and primative skills.
NightShade
10-13-2014, 09:59 PM
They (newfangled gadgets) are superior. That's the advantage of time always moving forward. BUT, what do you do when you Bare Grills knife falls apart because it was made by a 9 year old girl in a Chinese slave factory? Knowledge is lightweight and as compact as you'll ever get. When your gear fails, you better be able to tap that brain for ways to keep living. The alternative is not going to make anyone happy.
I couldn't agree more! I always stress that having the newest gear is great, but what would you do if it were lost, stolen, or failed you? Knowledge and experience pack light and are invaluable.
(another reason I stress testing gear... good to know its limitations, rather than finding them out at a bad time)
I'm not certain why you think I was advocating no knowledge or skills. That's not true at all nor did I say that. I simply said I saw no reason to carry a paleo kit when today's items are so much better. For example, I carry a fero rod because it's way better than flint. It's the same knowledge and principle but a better tool.
Tokwan
10-14-2014, 08:53 PM
I thi nk the only thing a paleoman would need is something sharp to protect, hunt and to help make fire. Of course the next best thing would be a staff than can be used as a spear, and a whole hide of a cattle...to be used for shelter. A goatskin water container...guess that's about it.
yellowcab
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yellowcab
12-29-2025, 12:46 PM
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yellowcab
12-29-2025, 12:48 PM
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yellowcab
03-28-2026, 07:41 PM
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yellowcab
03-28-2026, 07:42 PM
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