Questions about compasses

[Ranger_Spencer]

So I made sure to check the advanced search function before asking this, since I'm sure you all talked about compasses a lot here.

As a park ranger having a compass is like having a heart beating inside your chest, pretty necessary and a huge no-no to go without. I have been using my issued compass I got during orientation years ago this entire time. Its a lenstatic compass with a ranging site system and mangafier that let's you look at a distant landmark and see your intended degrees of travel. I think the average cost of this type is anywhere from 4 to 10 dollars. Pretty easy to use and its highly accurate.

Problem is I just recently noticed, in tiny letters on the backside, it says "not for professional use". OK...what? What constitutes "professional" compass use if not what I do on a daily basis? Maybe land surveys? I don't know but I realize my compass isn't top of the fine yet its never failed me.

What do you guys think about this? And what do you all think about buying a compass for your kits? Do you spend unhealthy amounts of money on one to get top grade, military accurate compasses or does a nice 20$ model from an outdoors store seem to fit your needs? I'm really interested on hearing opinions on this, and maybe seeing pictures of what compasses you all have in your kits.

[Sarge47]

So I made sure to check the advanced search function before asking this, since I'm sure you all talked about compasses a lot here.

As a park ranger having a compass is like having a heart beating inside your chest, pretty necessary and a huge no-no to go without. I have been using my issued compass I got during orientation years ago this entire time. Its a lenstatic compass with a ranging site system and mangafier that let's you look at a distant landmark and see your intended degrees of travel. I think the average cost of this type is anywhere from 4 to 10 dollars. Pretty easy to use and its highly accurate.

Problem is I just recently noticed, in tiny letters on the backside, it says "not for professional use". OK...what? What constitutes "professional" compass use if not what I do on a daily basis? Maybe land surveys? I don't know but I realize my compass isn't top of the fine yet its never failed me.

What do you guys think about this? And what do you all think about buying a compass for your kits? Do you spend unhealthy amounts of money on one to get top grade, military accurate compasses or does a nice 20$ model from an outdoors store seem to fit your needs? I'm really interested on hearing opinions on this, and maybe seeing pictures of what compasses you all have in your kits.

Your kit is only as good as the quality of gear that you have in it. Yours probably won't hold up to the constant hard use it will be getting in the field...hence the disclaimer on the back. I have many compasses. The lowest priced one was the Suunto Smoke Jumper compass for $10. It was taken out of a USMC Force Recon SK that was issued to Marine Corps pilots during the Viet Nam era and is really hard to find out of one of the kits.

I have the Silva Ranger compass which retails between $45 to $50. It can take much abuse as well. In his book: The Ultimate Outdoorsman," former Marine Bob Newman relates how he backed a jeep tire over one of them and it still worked fine. This is a good price on one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Silva-Ranger-CL-Compass-/261362123302?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cda658226

I bought one of these for around $11; it is the foreign military equivalent to the military lensatic compass:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Military-Liquid-Filled-Lensatic-Prismatic-Camping-Compass-camping-Hiking-Tool-/171349283239?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27e53691a7

I also bought a real military field compass for around $65...they've recently dropped a bit in price. They have the radioactive phosphorescent marking that stay lit up constantly. Given your experience with this type of compass I would recommend it and this is a great price on this model without the radioactive markings:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CAMMENGA-LENSATIC-COMPASS-POUCH-ARMY-MILITARY-27CS-CAMPING-HUNTING-HIKING-NEW-/390840279224?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5affe560b8

Just some suggestions....:cowboy:

[Old GI]

I've stuck with my 34 year old Silva Ranger.

[hunter63]

I use several compusses....all are in a coat jacket, kit, watch band, ....most are all elcheapo....as usually I use them to make my entrance into a woods, direction of travel, and the way back.

My big pack has a lensatic compass, but not a real expensive one...can't tell you the brand, but I have to say I have never used all the functions it's supposed to have.

Doing a quick look up is see prices ranging all over the place for $20 buck to several hundred dollars.
Are the expensive offering better, possibility....like a $20 dollar watch and a $5000 dollar watch.
Will the cheaper version work?...of course....But how much better is in question,

Most important...... is learning how to use it........a $5000 buck watch isn't much good if you can't tell time.
PS
This was the basic way I learned in this vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4SKU20vVL0

I just substitute the start location mag north and set direction of travel setting........for a general heading.

[Sarge47]

Here's pics of my 3 faves and their strategic locations within my gear:

10022100211002310024
The one on the far left is the Silva Ranger closed. It sits on a BSA Compass pouch bought specifically for it.

The next is a pic of all 3, starting from left to right, the Suunoto Smoke Jumper Base-plate Compass; The Silva Ranger in the open position; and the US Army Cammenga compass; and the US Army Cammenga closed, front and back. As you can see on the front the NSN designation number, and on the back the radioactive logo and definite instructions regarding opening the back and disposal of....:1:

The Suunoto Compass resides in a home made SK.

The Silva Ranger hides in a small "possibles" bag.

The Lensatic Compass rides in it's pouch on one of my backpack straps.

[finallyME]

Here is what I said in another thread:

"I have a military issue lensatic that I use on occasion. When I became a scoutmaster, I was given a bunch of scout compasses. They are the run of the mill clear base compasses. None of them had a brand name, except for the BSA markings. I then wanted to get a good quality one with declination adjustments. I did a lot of research and found that the Silva Ranger was a clear favorite. Then I did more research and found that the old Silva Ranger is different then the new one. The old one was being made by Brunton as the 15TDCL. So, I bought that one. Now it appears that Brunton has changed their entire line."

Here is what Rick cleared up in that same thread:

"It's actually about international trademarks. Here's a post I made on them sometime back...

Compasses are a bit of a confusing animal. They shouldn't be but the corporate jockeying that has taken place makes it that way. Silva made Silva compasses in Europe and China. Johnson Outdoors, being the ever shrewd corporation they are, trademarked the Silva name in the USA. So even though Silva owned the compass name they couldn't market the Silva name in the US. So now it looks like this:

Silva AB sold Brunton, Nexus and Elite in the US. However, since that post, Silva was bought by Fiskars who then sold the Silva name to Karnall AB and the Brunton name to Fenix Outdoors.

Johnson Outdoors sells Silva in the US. You may know Johnson Outdoors as Eureka, Jetboil, Minnkota, Old Towne Canoes or by many of the other outdoor products they sell.

Silva has been making compasses for a long time. Brunton and Nexus are just names. They are Silva compasses and both good brands.

You'll see very distinct similarities between all three, however. Very competitive game."

Here is the thread: http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?22480-Show-your-compasses-What-do-you-have

For me, with all the research I did (which wasn't extensive, but enough to satisfy me), I will only stick to 3 brands : Brunton, Suunto, and Commenga. I also won't spend over $50. That will give me a dang good quality compass that does everything I need. Now, I may have to change those rules if I ever decide to sail around the world, cross Antarctica, or survey professionally. That isn't to say that there aren't other brands that make good compasses, but I KNOW those three do. FWIW

[hunter63]

Good summery......Thanks

[Rick]

A "professional" compass is sort of defined by the manufacturer. In general, you'll find a professional compass to be a more precision instrument. Most will be pressurized since bubbles will form in non-pressurized compasses in very cold weather or at high elevation. These are vacuum bubbles rather than air bubbles since no air entered the compass. Some will have threads for tripod mounts and/or clinometers. Some will have optical readouts for precision reading. Some will have bubble levels built into them. Some use a rare earth magnet to avoid localized magnetic variances and still others might be labeled in MILS for very precise readouts.

Does any of that matter to us? Probably not. If you were a cartographer, civil engineer, lumber buyer marking trees or some other occupation that relied on precise directions then you would. I would guess if you were going to traverse a very long distance where visual indicators were absent, like the Great Basin Desert here in the States or maybe northern Alaska tundra or one of the rain forests then the extra dollars are probably a good idea. But getting back to the truck from the trail just requires some general orienteering for me. About the best compass I own is the Suunto MB6. It was less than $40 if I remember right.

http://www.ejmotiwalla.com/Buttons/Products/suunto-mb6.jpg (http://http://www.ejmotiwalla.com/Buttons/Products/suunto-mb6.jpg)

[Ranger_Spencer]

Those are some fine looking instruments. Yeah I was pretty sure before this thread but after seeing this I'm 100% sure, I need to upgrade. They just don't give us good equipment when we start this job, and I hate the idea of relying on nothing but a GPS and a cheap compass.

[Rick]

If it ain't broke do you need to fix it? You said it had never failed you. Of course, there is no harm in having backups. I carry a couple of button compasses that will give me general direction if I accidentally drop my good one in the fire. I've looked at more expensive ones and some are pretty high on the cool factor but in the end I really don't need them.

I slobber over this bad boy every time I see one. Only $450.00!

http://www.stanleylondon.com/realbrunton1.jpg (http://www.stanleylondon.com/realbrunton1.jpg)

[Adventure Wolf]

A "professional" compass is used for mapping and surveying. Their extremely accurate, usually to .5 degrees.

3H Tritium is the best money can buy in my opinion, but sadly I don't own one...

I have a 401 ACU Digital Compass that I bought from an Army Surplus Dealer at the Raleigh Flea Market (I think but it could have been GI Joe's Army Surplus in Clayton, can't remember...) awhile back. It cost me somewhere in the ballpark of 10 dollars. It's not my best compass, but its a good cheap alternative.

I have a Huntington MG2 that I use most of the time. It runs about thirty dollars new, and well worth it if you don't have the money to throw around. Before that, I owned a Suunto MC2 that ran about 80 dollars, and I had for years and years (at least five or six), but it was lost that last time I moved.

[Ranger_Spencer]

Well Rick, that's true to an extent. While it does amazingly in the bush, where I need it the most often, it tends to be easily disoriented when in town for some reason. Not all the time, but in some places. I'm just thinking of getting a backup like you said except the backup would become the one I have now, and the one I buy soon be my main one. I mean, I just love getting new toys to play with out in the woods, and I don't care who says I'm an adult, I like shiney new stuff lol

[Sarge47]

1st, keep us informed to which compass you settle on. 2nd, as I mentioned earlier, you seem adapt at using the lensatic compass in the field, and I think that something along that line should be your choice. In the event that you are considering it here's a couple of military grade lensatic compasses, the 1st without the tritium, the 2nd with:

http://www.amazon.com/Cammenga-Model-Olive-Lensatic-Compass/dp/B0016SRA4Y/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1402161360&sr=8-1&keywords=cammenga+compass

http://www.amazon.com/Cammenga-3H-Tritium-Compass/dp/B001W2CJX6/ref=pd_sim_sg_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=0X9H4W8SNPWGGBVVGMAT

Like you, I believe that a profession like yours demands professional equipment, your life may someday depend on it! I envy you as now you get to pick a new piece of equipment! Oh the joy!...:cowboy:

[Rick]

Pickin' out new toys is easy. You only need to know two things. Internet and credit card. Viola! New toy. And the darn thing comes to you. My dog won't even do that half the time.

[sjj]

I like a compass that allows adjusting for declination.

[crashdive123]

Pickin' out new toys is easy. You only need to know two things. Internet and credit card. Viola! New toy. And the darn thing comes to you. My dog won't even do that half the time.

Dog is probably saying.....

Again? His credit card has got to be maxed out, so I think I'll just stay here and nap.

[Rick]

Sshhhhh. It's the dog's card.

SJJ - You bring up an excellent point. Declination should be a real consideration for the majority of folks. I've mentioned before that I live along the agonic line so declination isn't required around here. It can make a huge difference in plotting your course and actually getting there.

[Ranger_Spencer]

1st, keep us informed to which compass you settle on. 2nd, as I mentioned earlier, you seem adapt at using the lensatic compass in the field, and I think that something along that line should be your choice. In the event that you are considering it here's a couple of military grade lensatic compasses, the 1st without the tritium, the 2nd with:

http://www.amazon.com/Cammenga-Model-Olive-Lensatic-Compass/dp/B0016SRA4Y/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1402161360&sr=8-1&keywords=cammenga+compass

http://www.amazon.com/Cammenga-3H-Tritium-Compass/dp/B001W2CJX6/ref=pd_sim_sg_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=0X9H4W8SNPWGGBVVGMAT

Like you, I believe that a profession like yours demands professional equipment, your life may someday depend on it! I envy you as now you get to pick a new piece of equipment! Oh the joy!...:cowboy:

Thanks for the links! Yeah, this is more or less what Im looking for. I would most certaintly go for the Tritium one, since I mean come on its not that much more and its a thousand times cooler...*cough* i mean more useful. I meant useful.

As for using this specific type of compass, the reason I prefer it is actually something that takes a bit of explaining. Normally you think about using a compass to pinpoint YOUR location or the location of somewhere you need to go. What I use mine most for is pinpointing the path of a rescue/medical team from their entry location to the location of people who are lost/stranded/need help (80% of the time its when people get turned around and radio in). So, Im sitting in this huge highrise ranger station atop these giant stilts and I find the location marker of the people in distress, which is usually one of the mountain peaks and I project the degrees of travel that the teams need to use in order to reach the distressed in the quickest manner possible. So Im standing atop this platform having to sight up two seperate location and then plot a course, which is where the sighting ability of these types of compasses come in most handy. And thinking about it now, I can actually recall several occasions I have had to use my mini-mag light to shine on my compass so having Lithium would be amazing.

As a side note, if you all are ever "out there" and you need help, having a stationed ranger in a ranger house/platform is SO much easier for rescue teams (and you). The best way to ensure this is to, whenever possible and is most reasonable, donate even 5$ to the local rangers. Believe me our budget is...laughable. Government funded we may be, rich we most certainly are not. and I know I got off track sorry, its just talking about compasses and work and etc, I just wanted to mention it. If thats out of line forgive me.

Also, do any of you ever remember seeing some old compasses with radium inside? My grandfather had one issued to him by the US Army when he served in WWII, and I was amazed to find out that even then radium compasses were on the decline because of the whole radiation risk fear. It was the first and last time I ever saw that compass, since I dont know where it went after he showed it to me one time when I was a kid.

[crashdive123]

I still have my Dad's WWII issue compass.

[Ranger_Spencer]

Does it have radium in it? or did all of them? All I know is it's rare to find em now.

[hunter63]

I still have my Dad's WWII issue compass.

I do as well.....It worked good enough to get him out of China when his B-29 went down.......good enough for me.
Wasn't all fancy, just in a brass case...not sure if it's have radium on it or not.

[hunter63]

MF was a forest ranger....from the towers to office to, fire crews, hone lineman and a little game warden (deputing)...on the side.

Came home with the Smokey The Bear Costume when I was in about 1 or 2 grade....It was like finding out the Santa was your father.

The head smelled like tobacco, ....cigarettes and Copenhagen, sweat and BO........sorta like a real bear.......
I was heart broken to find out that he wasn't real.......

[crashdive123]

It probably had radioluminescent paint on it, but has long since lost its glow capabilities.

As a side note.....before the hazards of this material were known, the people that put the material on the watches and compasses (mostly women) used small artist brushes to accomplish that task. To keep a fine point on their brushes they would "twirl" them in their mouths. As can be expected, many came down with various forms of mouth and tongue cancer.

[hunter63]

There was a heck of a story about that in Mystery at the Museum....They even painted their teeth to go out on the town....

[Wise Old Owl]

My understanding may differ from the rest of the posts. Today the licensing and survey math is incredibly difficult and may have nothing to do with "professional" I am well aware that today's "plastic mass produced compass" is sold in countries that it is used for. In short you cannot transport a compass from the USA to Australia and expect it to be exact. Compasses are calibrated in a factory and checked by humans to be accurate for the country they are sold in... As for the old stuff... there is another rub.. In my lifetime the location of Valley Forge has changed declination from old maps of 12° to now close to 14° from true north over some 30 years. The real magnetic north pole is racing towards Siberia.

So lets put this on a plate. The "really good stuff works in every place on the earth for the time period issued." if a Marine issued compass with stuff that glows and will kill a nubie staring at it in the dark. It must be the right stuff. Thats my take - I am sticking to it...

[sjj]

In cold country, another consideration is cold weather performance.

[Rick]

Again, excellent points, sjj. Over the years a lot of different liquids have been used to dampen compass needles. Water, denatured alcohol and clear kerosene were all used. Sometime in the '60s it became the "standard" to use odorless mineral spirits. Today, that's what you'll find in most of the affordable compasses. The higher end compasses use a liquid called Isopar L. It, too, is a hydrocarbon made from petroleum. Obviously, all this depends on the manufacturer and the quality of the compass but for most of us mineral spirits is what dampens our compass needle. All of these liquids have to be degassed to avoid bubbles appearing in the compass. Nearly ever liquid has air suspended in it and degassing the liquid in a vacuum allows the fluid to be purged of air. It can then be used in a compass. If not degassed the air would eventually free itself and a bubble would form. As sjj correctly stated bubbles can still form from cold and elevation but those are bubbles formed when the mineral spirits (or whatever liquid) contracts. Warming the compass and/or returning to a lower elevation generally expands the liquid and the bubble "disappears".

Another note to consider. If you own one of those radio-luminescent compasses made up to the 1950s just remember they are highly radioactive even though they no longer glow in the dark. Most of those were painted with a mixture of radium and copper. Radium has a very long half life so even today if the compass leaks or breaks it will expose you to very dangerous levels of radium.

[sjj]

Thanks Rick - I learned something new. I'm also reminded of the time you explained to me how easy it is to re-magnetize a compass that has been compromised.

[Rick]

For those that are interested...we have so many magnets around us every day, I even have them in my glomitts to hold the finger end open, that it's easy for one to wind up next to a compass. When that happens, you can find your compass pointing south instead of north. You can re-magnetize your compass needle by using a strong magnet, preferably one in which you know the poles, and stroking the needle with the south pole of the magnet. Stroke in one direction only. If it doesn't work flip the magnet over and try again. If it still doesn't work find a stronger magnet.

[hunter63]

...........

Another note to consider. If you own one of those radio-luminescent compasses made up to the 1950s just remember they are highly radioactive even though they no longer glow in the dark. Most of those were painted with a mixture of radium and copper. Radium has a very long half life so even today if the compass leaks or breaks it will expose you to very dangerous levels of radium.

One of the American Scientific Club kits had a cloud chamber (plastic peanut butter jar)....some cardboard tunes, lens and filters....and a cork with a pin....painted with radium.....You could actually see different colored trails in the cloud...of radiation.
The was a warning on it at the time.....from the 1950's

[finallyME]

I was trained on compasses in the military with a lensatic. But, I ditched that when I bought my Brunton (silva ranger equivalent). I will always claim that a good baseplate compass with a sighting mirror is easier to use, lighter, easier to learn on, and easier to sight, than any lensatic. Plus, it has declination adjustment. This really becomes evident when I have to teach 12 year old boys how to use a compass. Trust me, a baseplate is much easier.

http://www.amazon.com/Suunto-SS004252010-MC-2G-Global-Compass/dp/B000FEUCRW/ref=sr_1_32?ie=UTF8&qid=1402507176&sr=8-32&keywords=brunton+compass

[Tokwan]

Boy, I'm really glad I joined this forum. Even though I am from another part of the world, in a place where the forest, climate, humidity, the language, customs are totally different, but what we use are almost identical. I too have a Silva Ranger and the Military compass. However, I always carry a Garmin 60 csx gps with some spare batteries and the Silva Compass as backup. It gives me a peace of mind.

[ninjasurvivor]

I can get buy with cheap compasses. The main thing is that they give me a consistent reading so I can keep a steady heading. Whether it is pointing me to "true" north or "magnetic" north, I don't really care. My goal is not to make it to the north pole to see Santa Claus. I just need a measure of what direction I am heading so I can take that into account on the way back.

[Rick]

Then you don't understand declination. It has nothing to do with reaching the North Pole and everything to do orienteering.

[crashdive123]

I can get buy with cheap compasses. The main thing is that they give me a consistent reading so I can keep a steady heading. Whether it is pointing me to "true" north or "magnetic" north, I don't really care. My goal is not to make it to the north pole to see Santa Claus. I just need a measure of what direction I am heading so I can take that into account on the way back.

I take it you don't use a map, but rather just head in a general direction?

[ninjasurvivor]

I take it you don't use a map, but rather just head in a general direction?

Correct. The fact of the matter is I don't typically go in areas which are foreign to me and require the use of maps and orienteering. I am familiar with how to do that, but I haven't as of yet needed to do that. Usually I have visible landmarks that would allow me to have a continual point of reference.

Recently I was in a vast woodland which I'd never been to. While hiking deep into the woods I kept checking my compass to make sure I stayed on a northwesterly heading. On the way back, it was a simple as heading southeast. My cheap Chinese compass got me where I needed to be. No map required. But I have to say that without the compass I may have gotten seriously sidetracked or lost.

[ElevenBravo]

Ive used the USGI Lensatic compass for 3 decades, and continue to do so.. I trust it.

They come in two flavors, one is NOT true USGI, its built the same but is illuminated by light gathering material. The REAL one uses radioactive glow dots just like your night sights... One is $30, the other is $130... Id urge you to go real deal.

EB

[tjwilhelm]

I may have posted this here before. If so, sorry.

Here's a video I made last year about magnetic declination, for whatever it may be worth:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqxOKKwYWQk&list=UU7hjjWFuN8gsJaEYJnZ8NOA

[crashdive123]

Great vid and demonstration Tim.

[ninjasurvivor]

I'm not sure I fully understand lensatic compasses. The only difference is they have a sight that allows you to more easily visually align yourself with your objective. I don't like the size and weight of them though.

One thing I've always said about using a compass is that it only works if you have a map, know where you are, and know where you need to be. A lot of people say a compass will help you if you are lost. I disagree. You can generally determine cardinal directions by using the sun or stars. That's all a compass does for you. If you don't know where you are at or where you need to be to find rescue, the compass provides you little value other than helping you travel in a straight line.

[Sarge47]

I'm not sure I fully understand lensatic compasses. The only difference is they have a sight that allows you to more easily visually align yourself with your objective. I don't like the size and weight of them though.

One thing I've always said about using a compass is that it only works if you have a map, know where you are, and know where you need to be. A lot of people say a compass will help you if you are lost. I disagree. You can generally determine cardinal directions by using the sun or stars. That's all a compass does for you. If you don't know where you are at or where you need to be to find rescue, the compass provides you little value other than helping you travel in a straight line.

A compass does help you for other things as well. Plot a course, find a location, draw a map, etc....:smartass:

[ninjasurvivor]

A compass does help you for other things as well. Plot a course, find a location, draw a map, etc....:smartass: Ok, go grab your compass. Now draw a map of China. Is it helping???:confused1:

[Sarge47]

Ok, go grab your compass. Now draw a map of China. Is it helping???:confused1:

You're losing your credibility, you know that, right?....:creepy:

Try using it properly and you'll see what I mean. Whenever somebody is in a survival situation drawing a map with specific co-ordinates of the area is a great idea...Cody Lundin teaches this....:smartass:

Get lost in a large forest, the kind we have here in the mid-west and don't have in Arizona. You can't see the sun or the stars and it's really easy to get turned around. :smartass:

[Rick]

They may be a map of China on your Chinese compass. Just sayin.....

[Tokwan]

Ease your mind. You don't need a pro compass. You only need a conmpass for you to tell the direction. If you are using a topo map, ur compass is good enough. If the compass can show you the correct direction, allows you to calculate your bearings to show your location and it is correct, then it is good enough. Have a couple for back up..I only have 3 compass...one on my survival kit, one in my pocket, one on my Coughlan whistle...I carry a Garmin GPS..hehehe.

Get a GPS and mark all your routes there...and do have spare batteries....good enuff man.

[hunter63]

So is the Asia North the same as North America North?....
GPS programed local?
Don't you have an app for that.

[blackfinger]

I was trained on compasses in the military with a lensatic. But, I ditched that when I bought my Brunton (silva ranger equivalent). I will always claim that a good baseplate compass with a sighting mirror is easier to use, lighter, easier to learn on, and easier to sight, than any lensatic. Plus, it has declination adjustment. This really becomes evident when I have to teach 12 year old boys how to use a compass. Trust me, a baseplate is much easier.

I wholeheartedly agree. I ditched the lensatic style years ago. I was trained by a military friend on a baseplate compass and never looked back. Been using the same Silva Ranger for over 20 years now. When I teach kids I always teach them with a standard baseplate compass.

[Sarge47]

Ease your mind. You don't need a pro compass. You only need a conmpass for you to tell the direction. If you are using a topo map, ur compass is good enough. If the compass can show you the correct direction, allows you to calculate your bearings to show your location and it is correct, then it is good enough. Have a couple for back up..I only have 3 compass...one on my survival kit, one in my pocket, one on my Coughlan whistle...I carry a Garmin GPS..hehehe.

Get a GPS and mark all your routes there...and do have spare batteries....good enuff man.

Cheap compasses fall apart way too easy or don't always work properly, at least that's been my experience. You get what you pay for. A GPS is very costly, over a hundred dollars for the cheapest one. Why buy an expensive GPS when it's less costly to buy a good quality compass? Why spend a lot of money on good quality gear like a knife but not your compass that your life may well depend on? Why go primitive on a lot of other things but rely on an electronic device that will most likely fail you if dropped on rocks or into water?...:confused1:

Boats, airplanes, and even newer cars have a built in compass in addition to GPS systems...why? To be safe of course....:sailor:

[Tokwan]

I use both...GPS and compass.....a gs usually, then back to compass if the gps fails.....and i forgot to tell you..I have 3 compasses...One is a Silva, one is a Suunto and the other one is the button compass on my Coughlan whistle...

[ninjasurvivor]

The problem I have with "maps" and compasses, is that a map is usually for a large area. Unless you have some hand drawn pirate treasure map or something. :whistling:

If you are talking about navigating over land on foot, you likely won't be covering that much territory. I hear people on the internet talk about how they hike 20 miles a day 7 days a week without sleeping (in the snow uphill both ways), but who knows if that is real or not. I know that when I am trekking/hunting/hiking/camping, I am not covering anywhere near that amount of territory.

When you have a small area of operation, a map of a 1000 square mile area isn't going to do you much good. I may only need to get from one precise location to another precise location a mile and a half away. It's important that I know my heading so I can make it directly there and return from whence I came, but other than that I don't see the value of complex orienteering. Maybe for military personnel, but not for me.

[crashdive123]

By printing your own maps from Google Earth or any of the myriad of sites that have them, you can make them as small or as large as you want.

[finallyME]

I print my own maps from the internet and can set the scale to be something that is useful to what I am doing. Since I like to go places I haven't been before, I rely on maps to get me to a specific "cool" location.

[Sarge47]

The problem I have with "maps" and compasses, is that a map is usually for a large area. Unless you have some hand drawn pirate treasure map or something. :whistling:

If you are talking about navigating over land on foot, you likely won't be covering that much territory. I hear people on the internet talk about how they hike 20 miles a day 7 days a week without sleeping (in the snow uphill both ways), but who knows if that is real or not. I know that when I am trekking/hunting/hiking/camping, I am not covering anywhere near that amount of territory.

When you have a small area of operation, a map of a 1000 square mile area isn't going to do you much good. I may only need to get from one precise location to another precise location a mile and a half away. It's important that I know my heading so I can make it directly there and return from whence I came, but other than that I don't see the value of complex orienteering. Maybe for military personnel, but not for me.

Remember, this is about surviving, not just hiking around the countryside. Here's a fun idea, take a plain sheet of paper and draw a small X right in the center, that's your home. Now, using your compass, draw a straight line in one of the bottom corners designating magnetic North. Orient your map to magnetic North using your compass. Now do some exploring, find out what's around you that might be important to you. Then, shoot a bearing to it using your compass, write what it is, and how many paces/yards/etc. it is from your home. repeat this designating water source, food source, emergency shelter location, etc.. Why? Well, to be honest, I don't know what the weather conditions are like where you live, but we get a lot of tornadoes here and the scenery can change in a heartbeat. I like to map out my general area to show berry producing bushes and trees, Morel locations, water locations in case of an emergency, emergency exits out of here if I have to use them. Just an idea and something to do while learning more about your compass....:sailor:

[ninjasurvivor]

Good idea about making your own custom maps from google. That's obviously assuming you had the ability to plan your excursion in advance and have access to a printer.

I'm big on navigating by landmarks. Something as simple as taking off in one direction away from a road. You know that the road is back "that way" and if you continue in that direction you will eventually find it. You don't even need to know whether you are heading N S E W as long as you know which way to walk in order to return to where you started.

I rarely find myself in foreign locations where everything looks the same and I have no idea what geographical and terrain features I am looking at. All it takes is knowing that a high visible peak is north of your location, and you'll always be able to orient yourself based on that one piece of information. That's a specific example, but it could work under many circumstances.

[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

ма�о (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/248)273.81 (http://cottagenet.ru/plan/376)PERF (http://eyesvision.ru)Bett (http://eyesvisions.com)�пец (http://factoringfee.ru/t/1141234)Dame (http://filmzones.ru/t/1024213)Madr (http://gadwall.ru/t/901417)Mass (http://gaffertape.ru/t/1102031)Make (http://gageboard.ru/t/1095102)Куга (http://gagrule.ru/t/858749)проб (http://gallduct.ru/t/1162319)Соде (http://galvanometric.ru/t/993460)Blac (http://gangforeman.ru/t/1086729)Tesc (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/1481226)бейк (http://garbagechute.ru/t/1144251)
Punt (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/1028788)ри�у (http://gascautery.ru/t/1144133)Мухи (http://gashbucket.ru/t/836929)пред (http://gasreturn.ru/t/1144274)Pier (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/848069)клей (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/1161717)Bert (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/1212107)Star (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/972491)Чиже (http://geartreating.ru/t/949421)Carl (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/948350)Байг (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/947437)Перц (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/940575)Бога (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/938401)Pete (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/945846)Иллю (http://getthebounce.ru/t/813294)
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Sela (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/1181039)Fran (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/639294)Irge (http://kentishglory.ru/t/1183048)Eleg (http://kerbweight.ru/t/1179812)John (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/662310)Rond (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/610998)Circ (http://keyserum.ru/t/1180843)Alfr (http://kickplate.ru/t/1024455)dgar (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/1231592)Якуш (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/815636)Тели (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/891290)войн (http://kinozones.ru/film/2696)кла� (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/774921)Mart (http://kneejoint.ru/t/977029)�рта (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/1327929)
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Zone (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/1191881)Zone (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/1193426)кара (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/1184124)Zone (http://lamphouse.ru/t/1185028)Zone (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/1184967)Zone (http://lancingdie.ru/t/1186394)3110 (http://landingdoor.ru/t/1188587)Коню (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/1238606)Zone (http://landreform.ru/t/1186874)Zone (http://landuseratio.ru/t/1185183)Zone (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/1190994)ЮМБ� (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1161824)клей (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/1177213)Pion (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/804)трещ (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/590999)

[yellowcab]

Wind (http://laterevent.ru/shop/1178910)â„–688 (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/453661)Japa (http://layabout.ru/shop/453680)Milo (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/600346)Кита (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/106385)Шевч (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/466060)изда (http://leaveword.ru/shop/483042)Ð*оÑ�Ñ� (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/270316)Dali (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/576294)приÑ� (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/446152)1654 (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/269091)Powe (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/577312)Rich (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/576141)Supr (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/612415)хоро (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/1040474)
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Clor (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/140494)Cool (http://oceanmining.ru/shop/570474)Plan (http://octupolephonon.ru/shop/571434)Ð�нзи (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/149272)Robe (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/203208)Ð�тмо (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/150359)напр (http://onesticket.ru/shop/580493)ЛитÐ* (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/582880)ЛитÐ* (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/684845)Кадо (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/684215)CORO (http://palmberry.ru/shop/689064)Корч (http://papercoating.ru/shop/584256)Bioh (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/689671)Fore (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1169103)Fore (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1169123)
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