View Full Version : 20 hurt in stabbings at Franklin Regional High School
RangerXanatos
04-09-2014, 09:08 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/04/09/suspect-in-custody-after-reports-multiple-stabbings-at-pennsylvania-school/
http://www.wpxi.com/news/news/breaking-several-hurt-multiple-stabbings-franklin-/nfWYh/
It just proves that evil people will do evil things with whatever tool they can find. I hope everyone survives. I was appalled at the comment of the director,
"But I'm just glad it wasn't a shooter, because if it had been a shooter, there would have been fatalities,"
You can surmise that but she has no clairvoyance to make that prediction. And with 4 in critical condition she might have her fatalities yet. Irresponsible comment in my opinion.
hunter63
04-09-2014, 01:08 PM
Yeah, kinda falls under the..... "Well it was ONLY a stabbing......."
Lamewolf
04-09-2014, 01:17 PM
All the more reason for armed and trained personel in the schools ! A good tazer gun could have saved a few of these kids from injury !
welderguy
04-09-2014, 01:40 PM
All the more reason for armed and trained personel in the schools ! A good tazer gun could have saved a few of these kids from injury !
that is true and a good 45acp would save the taxpayers trial expenses. I hope there are no fatalities very sad event!!
Lamewolf
04-09-2014, 03:35 PM
that is true and a good 45acp would save the taxpayers trial expenses. I hope there are no fatalities very sad event!!
I hear ya, but I wouldn't want to see a 16 year old get shot - not even one that stupid.
welderguy
04-09-2014, 06:05 PM
I hear ya, but I wouldn't want to see a 16 year old get shot - not even one that stupid.
its debatable, because that stupid 16 year old will turn into a stupid 30 year old and possibly be worse, just my two cents.
Phaedrus
04-10-2014, 02:52 AM
It sucks that even before the blood has been mopped up there are people using this as ammo in the debate on guns (not here at WSF so much as in the larger media). It's a sick pointless crime, to be sure. At this point it looks promising that everyone will survive, even though the wounds are ghastly. I'm glad there were no lives lost.
From a preparedness point of view the takeaway should be that we must never underestimate a knife, or think "oh, he only has a knife." Knives have been used to kill people as long at there have been people, or very nearly so. Recall the terrorist knife rampage in China a few months back that left many innocent people dead. Knives are very lethal; I'd go so far as to say that in the hands of someone that knows how to use one they're more lethal than guns at very close range, or at least they're on a pretty level playing field.
Lamewolf
04-10-2014, 07:22 AM
its debatable, because that stupid 16 year old will turn into a stupid 30 year old and possibly be worse, just my two cents.
What I'm wondering is "what pushed this kid to do this in the first place" ? He looked pretty small on the news, so I'm wondering if he had been bullied to the point that he went of the deep end or what ? Did he target friend of his bullies ? Things like that - it will be interesting to see what made him do it. And if truth be known, it may very well have something to do with bullies taunting him. Makes me sick to hear about kids being bullied and nothing ever seems to be done about it. My brother had to take his daughter out of school and home school her because she was being bullied and no one would do anything about it. One of my other brothers step son had his arm broken by bullies and previous incidents had been reported to school officials and nothing was done. Its just fortunate that his injury wasn't worse !
Old GI
04-10-2014, 08:34 AM
In a "Gun-Free Zone", a knife is king. The old corollary might be - Never take a knife to a gun fight.
WolfVanZandt
04-10-2014, 11:59 AM
From what I read, yes, he had been bullied.
This country went through a phase (started by Kennedy, I believe) where we were all interested in our physical fitness. We'd better get concerned about our mental/emotional fitness. I'm getting to an age that I harp on things, not because I want to nag, but because I forget that I've mentioned it before, but, sociologists and psychologists have been talking about our "insane society" for as long as I can remember (probably the 70s since that's when I started being exposed to all these ideas.) We've never taken them seriously. Kitty Genovese was murdered and raped in New York in 1964 while at least a dozen people watched. The attacks (multiple) took about a half hour. Further research by people like Kohlberg, Milgram, Zimbardo, Goffman, etc. brought out some details of how our society is insane. We don't know how to deal with emotional problems. Whereas, most of our laws are pretty much reasonable, there are a significant number that are drastically off-kilter and the way they are enforced is getting more and more draconian. Thomas Jefferson was the very one who said, "When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny." Does our government fear us or do we fear our government? When people fear liberty (I would assume, because they fear the responsibility that goes with it), they give it away to their government. The reason the founding fathers wanted us to have firearms was not to protect us from outsiders, but to protect us from our own government. Why does our government want so badly to control fire arms? Do you really think it's to prevent street violence? How do you vote for government officials? A lot of people do so because such-and-such is attractive, because they have a few significant values in common, or because they're male or female, black or white. I suspect a sane person would think those are irrational reasons. Frankly, I could go on for pages but the point is...
We live in a desperately sick society and it's not getting better and it's not going to get any better because (at least for the present) the power really is with the people and the people don't have the slightest idea what they're doing and they don't really care to know.
So, if you want to have a sane society, if you don't already know, find out what a sane society looks like and be a roll model, teach your children, support others who have an inkling. But I don't have a lot of hope for the larger population. Most important, you'd best learn to deal with it without losing yourselves in the process.
Lamewolf
04-10-2014, 03:49 PM
From what I read, yes, he had been bullied.
This country went through a phase (started by Kennedy, I believe) where we were all interested in our physical fitness. We'd better get concerned about our mental/emotional fitness. I'm getting to an age that I harp on things, not because I want to nag, but because I forget that I've mentioned it before, but, sociologists and psychologists have been talking about our "insane society" for as long as I can remember (probably the 70s since that's when I started being exposed to all these ideas.) We've never taken them seriously. Kitty Genovese was murdered and raped in New York in 1964 while at least a dozen people watched. The attacks (multiple) took about a half hour. Further research by people like Kohlberg, Milgram, Zimbardo, Goffman, etc. brought out some details of how our society is insane. We don't know how to deal with emotional problems. Whereas, most of our laws are pretty much reasonable, there are a significant number that are drastically off-kilter and the way they are enforced is getting more and more draconian. Thomas Jefferson was the very one who said, "When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny." Does our government fear us or do we fear our government? When people fear liberty (I would assume, because they fear the responsibility that goes with it), they give it away to their government. The reason the founding fathers wanted us to have firearms was not to protect us from outsiders, but to protect us from our own government. Why does our government want so badly to control fire arms? Do you really think it's to prevent street violence? How do you vote for government officials? A lot of people do so because such-and-such is attractive, because they have a few significant values in common, or because they're male or female, black or white. I suspect a sane person would think those are irrational reasons. Frankly, I could go on for pages but the point is...
We live in a desperately sick society and it's not getting better and it's not going to get any better because (at least for the present) the power really is with the people and the people don't have the slightest idea what they're doing and they don't really care to know.
So, if you want to have a sane society, if you don't already know, find out what a sane society looks like and be a roll model, teach your children, support others who have an inkling. But I don't have a lot of hope for the larger population. Most important, you'd best learn to deal with it without losing yourselves in the process.
Very well put ! And again, the bullies never think about long term effects of their antics nor do they care and no one seems to want to do anything about it. When I was a kid in school and someone would bully you, you busted them in the moth with a fist and they left you alone from that point on, both parties might have got paddled by a teacher but the bully learned his lesson. But now if kid gets bullied and defends himself, they make him the bad guy and do nothing to the one that started it and thats where we are going wrong. Everyone needs to adopt a zero tolerance for bullies and stick to it and make sure they know they won't be tollerated ! I know of one case that was in the news where a kid was getting bullied and ended up hanging himself - very sad indeed !
Wildthang
04-10-2014, 04:12 PM
From what I read, yes, he had been bullied.
This country went through a phase (started by Kennedy, I believe) where we were all interested in our physical fitness. We'd better get concerned about our mental/emotional fitness. I'm getting to an age that I harp on things, not because I want to nag, but because I forget that I've mentioned it before, but, sociologists and psychologists have been talking about our "insane society" for as long as I can remember (probably the 70s since that's when I started being exposed to all these ideas.) We've never taken them seriously. Kitty Genovese was murdered and raped in New York in 1964 while at least a dozen people watched. The attacks (multiple) took about a half hour. Further research by people like Kohlberg, Milgram, Zimbardo, Goffman, etc. brought out some details of how our society is insane. We don't know how to deal with emotional problems. Whereas, most of our laws are pretty much reasonable, there are a significant number that are drastically off-kilter and the way they are enforced is getting more and more draconian. Thomas Jefferson was the very one who said, "When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny." Does our government fear us or do we fear our government? When people fear liberty (I would assume, because they fear the responsibility that goes with it), they give it away to their government. The reason the founding fathers wanted us to have firearms was not to protect us from outsiders, but to protect us from our own government. Why does our government want so badly to control fire arms? Do you really think it's to prevent street violence? How do you vote for government officials? A lot of people do so because such-and-such is attractive, because they have a few significant values in common, or because they're male or female, black or white. I suspect a sane person would think those are irrational reasons. Frankly, I could go on for pages but the point is...
We live in a desperately sick society and it's not getting better and it's not going to get any better because (at least for the present) the power really is with the people and the people don't have the slightest idea what they're doing and they don't really care to know.
So, if you want to have a sane society, if you don't already know, find out what a sane society looks like and be a roll model, teach your children, support others who have an inkling. But I don't have a lot of hope for the larger population. Most important, you'd best learn to deal with it without losing yourselves in the process.
Is it just me, but it seems that all of the great social powers of the past eventually went corrupt, politically inept, and their governments became selfish and disfunctional. It just seems to be the natural cycle of all past great society's.
And their people normally follow them off into the hole like lemmings! I think it is our turn in that cycle!
WolfVanZandt
04-10-2014, 05:04 PM
Well, yeah, but I don't think we're all going to go down the drain this time. The people that knows whats going on could get overwhelmed and say, "There's nothing we can do," but they don't have to.
Once upon a time in a land not too far away those adjudicated as mentally dysfunctional were imprisoned in places referred to as "hospitals". Then we decided that was inhumane (it was of course) so we turned them out on the street (stupid idea). Since then, we've struggled with how to manage the problem while mostly ignoring it. But there is always a price to pay whether you treat mental illness or not and this is but one example of it being paid. Until we come to terms with treating those who have mental issues as effectively as we do with someone who has a broken arm we will continue to be plagued with these kinds of things.
BENESSE
04-10-2014, 06:26 PM
Once upon a time in a land not too far away those adjudicated as mentally dysfunctional were imprisoned in places referred to as "hospitals". Then we decided that was inhumane (it was of course) so we turned them out on the street (stupid idea). Since then, we've struggled with how to manage the problem while mostly ignoring it. But there is always a price to pay whether you treat mental illness or not and this is but one example of it being paid. Until we come to terms with treating those who have mental issues as effectively as we do with someone who has a broken arm we will continue to be plagued with these kinds of things.
In addition, parents need plug into their children's lives on a daily basis and not make excuses for bad behavior or live in denial over antisocial, keeps to himself kinda thing. I know how tough it must be trying to raise kids these days but having them is a choice, after all.
Don't have them if you're not up to the task. I didn't, that's why I can say this.
WolfVanZandt
04-11-2014, 12:29 AM
You're both right. But, then, the worst thing about turning them out on the streets was that they didn't have programs to put them into to help them get their lives back. America, in both foreign and domestic dealings, is a land of half measures and, when you do things half way, things get doubly messed up (it's a mathematical law: 1/2 done = 2 messed up).
crashdive123
04-11-2014, 06:34 AM
Another problem that I see contributing to this sort of thing from young people is that they are taught everybody is a winner. They are taught that they can do no wrong. At some point in life that find out that that the world does keep score and that there are winners and losers they are often ill equipped to deal with it.
Lamewolf
04-11-2014, 07:23 AM
Another problem that I see contributing to this sort of thing from young people is that they are taught everybody is a winner. They are taught that they can do no wrong. At some point in life that find out that that the world does keep score and that there are winners and losers they are often ill equipped to deal with it.
And the bullies are taught that its not their fault for what they do and the ones being bullied are taught that you can not report the bullies or do anything about them because the bullies are supposedly the real victims. Thats what the school board told my brother when his daughter was being bullied and he had to take her out of public school because of it. They basicaly punished his daughter and let the bully go free ! They told her that if the bully started picking on her to just walk away, and she ask them what if they follow me, am I supposed to just let them keep doing it or can I defend myself. They told her in no way are you allowed to strike back at them. What a messed up world we live in ! I believe in turn the other cheek, but the word doesn't say anything about what happens when you do and they keep at it. I think turning the cheek means to give them one chance to quit, then you make them quit !
BENESSE
04-11-2014, 07:47 AM
And the bullies are taught that its not their fault for what they do and the ones being bullied are taught that you can not report the bullies or do anything about them because the bullies are supposedly the real victims.
What I find particularly troubling is the vast majority of kids who just stand by apathetically and let the bullies bully...someone else.
Kids need to be thought from an early age to stand up not just for themselves but for others too, who can't fend for themselves. Bullies do their thing because others let it happen. And the same thing unfortunately continues into adulthood.
Lamewolf
04-11-2014, 10:52 AM
What I find particularly troubling is the vast majority of kids who just stand by apathetically and let the bullies bully...someone else.
Kids need to be thought from an early age to stand up not just for themselves but for others too, who can't fend for themselves. Bullies do their thing because others let it happen. And the same thing unfortunately continues into adulthood.
I did just that one time in high school. I was in auto mechanics the last 2 years of high school, and one day I walked into the locker room to find one of the big guys from the football team beating a smaller special education student in the chest with his fist and laughing thinking it was funny. I pulled him off the kid, the kid sinks to the floor having trouble breathing and open up on his assailant giving him a few good thumps. Then I reported it to the principal and nothing was ever done about it. Since this was in a seperate buuilding in the auto shop, the principal said it wasn't up to him - go figure ?
Wildthang
04-11-2014, 02:02 PM
We use to catch the bully's off the school grounds and just thump the h@ll out of them. It let them know that there could be consequences for messing with the kids that couldn't defend themselves. My little gang of friends were tough, but we didn't beleive in picking on people either.
Camp10
04-14-2014, 01:27 PM
America, 2014... The culture of being a winner without effort and everything being classified as bullying has made kids so unable to cope with things that this stuff happens. Name calling helped a kid getting picked on become sarcastic (I mean that in a good way).. it taught weak kids to fight or run. The fat girl in highschool turned into the bombshell in college. My unpopular belief is that the act of bullying isn't any more harsh then when I was a kid, the ability to make it a positive is what's gone. Don't get me wrong, my kids were never allowed to name call or start trouble, just allowed to give it back.
Bullies were azzholes then and they are azzholes now. The failing in most cases lies at the feet of the parents. If a kid bullies then he needs to be taught it is not acceptable. If that means time off from school so be it. It generally stems from some difference whether it be race, religion, size, glasses, special needs or whatever else makes the kid different. That doesn't give some asshole license to pick on him or her. And it doesn't build character either. It builds adults that look back on their childhood with disdain instead of fond memories.
WolfVanZandt
04-14-2014, 05:47 PM
Further, it tells bullies that it's all right to be a bully and that's how you get ahead in the world. School and maturing is supposed to teach people how to develop strong, constructive relationships, not make life miserable for others.
Camp10
04-14-2014, 06:14 PM
Told you my opinion was unpopular! I don't think I got it across right though based on the comments. I don't think bullies get ahead... Most of them are probably driving the same camaro they thought was cool back then. My kids were bully terminators back in school, my youngest once was suspended for beating the crap out of a school board members kid. When I asked why, he said he (the school board kid) was picking on a third grader. My boy got no further punishment from me. I do think though that there are thousands and thousands of very successful people today because they once pick themselves up from the play ground, wiped blood from their mouth, looked the grinning bully in the eyes and decided that someday they will see who the loser is.
Camp10
04-14-2014, 06:21 PM
Back to the original topic though.. this stabbing happened not far from me. 4 kids are still in serious condition but if I heard it right, classes will start back tomorrow. Teachers were having counseling today.
WolfVanZandt
04-14-2014, 09:55 PM
" I do think though that there are thousands and thousands of very successful people today because they once pick themselves up from the play ground, wiped blood from their mouth, looked the grinning bully in the eyes and decided that someday they will see who the loser is. "
I think I can agree with you there; I'm one of those people - but I don't think I'm particularly better off because of the harassment I was exposed to in school - those were just the cards I was dealt and I played them as well as I could.
My people often say, "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger," and in my life, I think that's been the case; but, then, I look at who said that (Nietzsche) and I look at where he ended up (insane) and I wonder if he's really the kind of person the world needs to go to for wisdom.......
BENESSE
04-15-2014, 08:15 AM
" I do think though that there are thousands and thousands of very successful people today because they once pick themselves up from the play ground, wiped blood from their mouth, looked the grinning bully in the eyes and decided that someday they will see who the loser is. "
I think I can agree with you there; I'm one of those people - but I don't think I'm particularly better off because of the harassment I was exposed to in school - those were just the cards I was dealt and I played them as well as I could.
My people often say, "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger," and in my life, I think that's been the case; but, then, I look at who said that (Nietzsche) and I look at where he ended up (insane) and I wonder if he's really the kind of person the world needs to go to for wisdom.......
Another way that turns out is, "What doesn't kill you, makes you bitter." Makes you wanna run of into the wilderness away from people who've been such $hits to you (at best) or even out the score later when you get a chance.
We love to point out people who've picked themselves up, dusted themselves off and became very successful. It's inspirational, to be sure--where there is a will, there is a way, kinda thing. But adversity affects people differently and unless you get a break somewhere along the way, chances are, it will affect who you are and how you interact with people.
Lamewolf
04-15-2014, 09:53 AM
bullies were azzholes then and they are azzholes now. The failing in most cases lies at the feet of the parents. If a kid bullies then he needs to be taught it is not acceptable. If that means time off from school so be it. It generally stems from some difference whether it be race, religion, size, glasses, special needs or whatever else makes the kid different. That doesn't give some asshole license to pick on him or her. And it doesn't build character either. It builds adults that look back on their childhood with disdain instead of fond memories.
amen rick !
WolfVanZandt
04-15-2014, 11:15 AM
"Makes you wanna run of into the wilderness away from people who've been such $hits to you (at best) or even out the score later when you get a chance. "
True enough - different people deal with it differently. But I've noticed the mix. I can't run away because I've known too many good people there that deserve my support.
It's true that a lot of bullies "get theirs in the end" (some of them actually grow out of it, though). They should have never got to that point to start with - they're lost potential. I don't often agree with Hilary Clinton but I absolutely agree that it takes a village to raise a child and if a couple of parents are too dumb or conflict-avoidant to prevent their kid from turning into a dead weight on society, the village should move in and take a hand in it. Bullying is one of society's sicknesses and it needs to be cured.
swenlet
04-15-2014, 03:13 PM
The village should have stopped the dumb ones from becoming parents in the first place, so they aren't burdened with kids (who will probably turn out as dumb or dumber than the parents).
I do think though that there are thousands and thousands of very successful people today because they once pick themselves up from the play ground, wiped blood from their mouth, looked the grinning bully in the eyes and decided that someday they will see who the loser is.
I would suggest they became successful in spite of the bullying. They became successful because hard work is in their character whether that hard work is physical, mental or both. I would like to think of school at the foot of Socrates where learning about many subjects by a well rounded mentor is the ideal.
I got my butt kicked more than once because I went to someones aid. We had a special needs class that always seemed to be the brunt of every badazz in the school. One of the special needs kids was sitting on a rail to concrete stairs and one of "them" shoved him off backwards. It was a drop of about eight feet onto concrete. It's a wonder it didn't kill him. I grabbed him by the back of the pants and tossed him over the rail too. It cost me the worst azz kicking I ever got but I still had the satisfaction of doing the right thing. I told him before he started swinging that no matter what happened I would always be right and he would also be an azzhole. That's when I got hit the first time. Big guys fall harder but they also swing harder too. I still know I was right. I hope he does too.
swenlet
04-15-2014, 06:46 PM
and Socates knuckled under to some bullies. I'd have busted loose and put my bow to work!. But maybe he was too old and crippled up to do such a thing.
Batch
04-15-2014, 07:52 PM
Socrates chose his fate. He could have walked away.
They were wrong and he was tired. Pick your poison...
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yellowcab
12-27-2025, 09:48 PM
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yellowcab
12-27-2025, 09:49 PM
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yellowcab
03-27-2026, 04:32 AM
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yellowcab
03-27-2026, 04:33 AM
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