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View Full Version : The Advantages of Fasting (On Water Only)?


djomla
11-24-2013, 09:49 PM
Recently, I've read this in Mors Kochanski's Basic safe travel and boreal survival:

"In attempting to live off the land, it is more preferable to only drink water, than to eat less than the minimum number of calories required each day. In not meeting the basal metabolic rate, which may be from 1100 to 1700 calories per day, there is such a disproportionate use of protein reserves in comparison to fat reserves that one may die of protein depletion in at least a quarter of the time as compared to fasting. In fasting there is a more balanced use of proteins and fats so that a healthy person of normal weight of 65 kilograms will not begin to suffer any irreversible deficiencies for at least six weeks."

Can someone explain this physiological mechanism more detailed?
Ken
11-24-2013, 10:37 PM
Assuming that your FIRST POST IN THE FORUMS is accurate, Mors Kochanski sounds like an idiot.
ClayPick
11-25-2013, 09:12 AM
The Inuit from Labrador used water in a similar way during times of shortage and long periods of fasting. Myself, I dont want to know a lot about starving.
RandyRhoads
11-25-2013, 12:36 PM
Assuming that your FIRST POST IN THE FORUMS is accurate, Mors Kochanski sounds like an idiot.

+1.......
hunter63
11-25-2013, 12:45 PM
Hunter63, saying Hey and Welcome.

I have to say I disagree with the fasting stuff....on purpose.
Is kinda a weird first post.....and I have a feeling it's one of those leading (trolling?)questions, where the poster already has an answer or belief and is laying in the weeds, waiting to expound vast knowledge, to an unexciting audience.

So there you have it, I disagree....your move.
Wildthang
11-25-2013, 01:44 PM
I think fasting is stupid! It is one thing to not have food available, but to starve yourself on purpose is pretty darned stupid!
Remianen
11-25-2013, 05:03 PM
I've heard people talk about 'rabbit starvation' and to use water to offset hunger pangs as an alternative. But I've never heard someone (especially not someone of Mors Kochanski's supposed stature) advocate fasting. That seems like something taken out of context. It's like taking "You shouldn't eat rabbits" from an explanation of rabbit starvation. That isn't the message being conveyed at all.
brittanymachine
11-25-2013, 05:24 PM
:) fasting is a great way to train/clean/rejuvenate your body. being outside naturally makes me less hungry (as long as im not over doing it). eating makes you metabolize faster- thus fasting slows it down. you should give it a try. im not braggin by any means but i like to push my body to extremes to liberate myself. im not talking about harming myself either. im talking about challenging myself...i can go a few days without eating--
and if any people here have a hard time doing that...seems like they might need to practice a little self control.
Rick
11-25-2013, 05:31 PM
While Mors is a very respected wilderness survival instructor he is not a doctor or dietitian. If I'm forced into a similar situation I'll be consuming whatever I can.
Phaedrus
11-25-2013, 05:55 PM
Being outdoors and doing stuff really sharpens my appetite! Everything tastes better cooked at camp.
RandyRhoads
11-25-2013, 06:01 PM
Britanny eating less meals per day slows metabolism down by hanging into everything it can and storing them as fats and glycogen. I've only ever been more hungry and wanted to eat larger meals. Less of them, but more calories. Better to eat more snacks throughout the day so your macro nutrients get used properly as opposed to broken down stored for later, then broken down to be used as a less efficient fuel.
brittanymachine
11-25-2013, 06:12 PM
randy you can prepare yourself for fasting by eating smaller portions as to slowly train your body to need less. im not talking about putting my body into shock. as well, i dont fast for longer than three days. i just want to also add that women as a fact, store more fat as apposed to men. sustaining them alonger...
BENESSE
11-25-2013, 06:13 PM
If people are naturally turned off by this idea then they'll disregard any legitimate source in support of it. (and there are many in the medical profession). In doesn't hurt that my orthopedic surgeon who regularly participates in Ironman triathlon races believes it helps him perform better. I haven't personally tried, it but it makes sense to me based on all I've read about it. The fact that Mors Kochanski, of all people, saw the benefit in it only makes it more compelling, to me, at least.

Hey, whatever floats your boat.
brittanymachine
11-25-2013, 06:15 PM
@randy---but your an argumentative type of person and probably have something youd like to further debate....
RandyRhoads
11-25-2013, 06:36 PM
@randy---but your an argumentative type of person and probably have something youd like to further debate....

Sure.

You're not preparing your body to need less. Your body has a set amount of calories needed. Basal metabolic rate. Dependant on activity level. It does not change based on what you eat.
brittanymachine
11-25-2013, 06:41 PM
who said anything about what was, has or would be consumed...lol
RandyRhoads
11-25-2013, 06:41 PM
Benesse. I'm not against this idea. I think it's a great way to purge your body of crap and like it.

Brittany. It's not that I want To argue. I like to discuss things. Learn and come to correct information. The way you're describing it to me doesn't make any sense from what I've been taught. If you have anything to back it up an explain it, shoot for it. I'm not opposed to learning something new.
RandyRhoads
11-25-2013, 06:46 PM
who said anything about what was, has or would be consumed...lol

You did. You said eating less would make you require less.



randy you can prepare yourself for fasting by eating smaller portions as to slowly train your body to need less...
brittanymachine
11-25-2013, 06:53 PM
i learn well from first person experience. you should try it out. i have. and ive given you enough information to decide weather you believe in it or not.
RandyRhoads
11-25-2013, 06:56 PM
Really you have x ray vision to see what's physiologically happening in your body? You're amazing... Got any pointers how i can see my own cellular Respiration? Me, I've never learned anything firsthand not like you. You gave so much excellent info. And great refrences. I can definitely make an informed decision on what to believe with the vast wealth of info you just gave me.
brittanymachine
11-25-2013, 07:31 PM
:thumbup: you should make an informed decision for yourself by doing it. thats all i was saying lol. its not as hard as it sounds...chill out.
Ken
11-25-2013, 08:37 PM
It's almost universally accepted that every adult should drink at least 8 glasses (@ 8oz. each = 64oz./day) of water to maintain proper metabolism.

Following this warped logic, in a boreal survival situation, we should forego drinking water completely for up to 6 weeks if we are unable to drink at least 48oz./day. Yeah. If anyone tries THAT, leave us a note on day 3 to tell us how that's working out for you.
brittanymachine
11-25-2013, 09:12 PM
http://www.trekkers.com.au/trekkers-articles/1992/2/23/the-incredible-story-of-james-scott/ the story of james scott is extremely relevant to this topic.
DSJohnson
11-25-2013, 11:57 PM
Miz Brittany, ma'am,
Thank yo so much for posting that link. A very amazing story. All kind of things come to mind while reading it. I am continually amazed by and at the stories of survival "out there"
Rick
11-26-2013, 11:17 AM
I think there is a difference between training yourself to something such as fasting and suddenly finding yourself in that situation. Your body is still looking for the same amount of calorie intake it's accustomed to and now requires even more if you are being forced to hike out of someplace or are injured. So I think we're discussing two different steeds.

By the way, Randy. If you want to purge yourself of crap just take a laxative. (I slay myself).
brittanymachine
11-26-2013, 11:18 AM
43 days without food and almost frozen to death. someone give me a reason on how that man is still alive. im not so sure science or dietitians know the answer to that question. and just because its not possible for some doesnt mean its inconceivable. and your welcome sir.
Rick
11-26-2013, 11:20 AM
Simply wasn't his time. Mankind has endured similar things on a mass scale where some lived and some did not. Simply wasn't their time.
brittanymachine
11-26-2013, 11:23 AM
im saying science knows so much about "how much" we need to survive yet...science is proved wrong everyday. so whos to say how much of something for how long is the proper amount. obviously we need to eat and drink. but every mind and body is different... so is every circumstance.
RandyRhoads
11-26-2013, 12:14 PM
By the way, Randy. If you want to purge yourself of crap just take a laxative. (I slay myself).

I shall name it Rick. :toomany:
hunter63
11-26-2013, 12:58 PM
I think there is a difference between training yourself to something such as fasting and suddenly finding yourself in that situation. Your body is still looking for the same amount of calorie intake it's accustomed to and now requires even more if you are being forced to hike out of someplace or are injured. So I think we're discussing two different steeds.

By the way, Randy. If you want to purge yourself of crap just take a laxative. (I slay myself).

I have to agree with this point....it's one thing to do something for a purpose, ...feel better, clean out crap, train, whatever.....But I do not plan on fasting every time I venture out.

I can tell you that food didn't last long while we were humping around in the Colorado mountains elk hunting........seemed I was always hungry........and I think you het some of your air from the water you drink at 10500 ft.
tjwilhelm
11-26-2013, 01:21 PM
Interesting discussion...

As others have pointed out, Mors Kochanski is very likely NOT a medical or dietary professional. Thus, his claims need vetting, for sure. That said, I'd like to share a related experience and a few thoughts...

A number of years ago (yah, I know...call me stupid) I chose to subject myself to a "cleansing fast." I was crazy-hungry for the first few days! However, near the end of day-three, the hunger pangs began to subside. I ended up fasting a full ten days, at which point it was obvious I was getting lethargic; and, I ended the fast with fruit juices and a gradual transition to "normal" food. Interestingly, I only lost 12 pounds in the ten-day period, and half of those returned within a week of chowing down.

This experience did two things for me: It REALLY cleaned out the crap; and, it also showed me -- experientially -- that I wasn't going to die without eating for a week. The new self-knowledge showed its advantage when I attended a week-long wilderness-survival-applications course at the Midwest Native Skills Institute. Part of the course involved fasting for a full day, before going out to harvest wild foods. Just the idea of this caused the other students to have a pretty strong emotional reaction -- none of them had ever gone a full day without food. For me, it was a cake-walk because of the prior fasting experience.

Seeing this reaction from the other students reminded me of what happens in a crisis situation -- hurricane, mass flooding, what have you. The first thing we see on the TV news is how people are raiding the grocery stores, fighting over whatever food might be left on the shelves. There's an innate emotional reaction to the possibility of missing a few immediate meals.

Most people (outside this kind of forum) have never heard of the "Rule of Threes" or the so-called "Sacred Order of Survival." In both, food is at the bottom of the priority list!

One of the keys to survival, beyond having gear and skills, is having the appropriate mental and emotional preparedness. Having some experience with fasting (albeit ten days is admittedly excessive) can give one an experientially-based, mental and emotional disposition to keep the "Rule of Threes" in mind; and, to deal with the immediate crisis with rational-response rather than emotional-reactivity.

For what it's worth...
SlowRide13
11-26-2013, 01:36 PM
For what it's worth...

Worth its weight in gold, if you ask me.
RandyRhoads
11-26-2013, 02:28 PM
Worth its weight in gold, if you ask me.

I agree. That was a great post.

Survival seems more phsychological to me the more I go out. Learn to accept it and the rest will follow... Sure all our tricks and stuff are great, but unless you can handle it mentally all that stuff goes out the window. People get cranky when hungry, dirty, cold, with little to no sleep,in pain, stuck by a needle.

To me more than practicing traps and all the similar things getting out in a crap situation and being exposed to that is more important training wise.
hunter63
11-26-2013, 02:36 PM
....Heck I get cranky now....when things are going well......Just old I guess.
finallyME
11-26-2013, 03:08 PM
I have been fasting my whole life.....not continuously though. ;) It has all been 24 hour periods of going without food and water. The reason has been spiritual, and I also donate the money I didn't spend on food to those who have no food.

Fasting does have health benefits, but that doesn't prove what Kochanski is saying. Although I have never fasted in a survival situation, I know that my body could probably go at least a week before it ran out of fat stores.

Of course, like hunter was saying...when I backpack above 10000 ft, it doesn't matter how much I eat, I lose weight. The combination of altitude, and a lot of exertion sure uses up energy stores.
Rick
11-26-2013, 04:41 PM
I shall name it Rick.

Salute it. Name it. It's all the same to me.
Canoetripper
11-26-2013, 05:04 PM
....Heck I get cranky now....when things are going well......Just old I guess.
I get cranky when i don't have a cake in the house
Ken
11-27-2013, 02:59 PM
Every calorie counts. Just think, Mama Cass Elliot and Karen Carpenter may have both been alive today if Mama had given Karen that ham sandwich. :innocent:
sjj
11-27-2013, 03:47 PM
I usually mention the advantages of fasting when its my turn to buy.
Rick
11-27-2013, 05:04 PM
Man. Have a known a guy or two like you........thanks for the laugh.

I once knew a guy that was so cheap (how cheap was he?) He was so cheap he got thrown out of a strip club for tearing dollar bills in half before rolling them up.
WolfVanZandt
11-28-2013, 12:02 PM
I've always heard that you can survive without air 4 minutes, water 4 days, and food 40 days. I also know that you can over diet. If you really want to lose weight, you don't just stop eating for an extended period - doing that makes your body think it's starving and it will start conserving reserves - including putting on fat. Your body can very quickly change it's metabolic pattern in response to environmental pressures, so, although its counter-intuitive, and this is the first I've heard of fasting in a survival situation, there's a lot that's counter-intuitive in real-life and I wouldn't dismiss it out-of-hand without considerable research.

Rick, purging can do certain things - it can change your gut ecology for instance, but it doesn't do any deep cleaning - it doesn't allow the body time to clean out the blood and vital organs. I've found that an occasional severe fast will do that. I used to have problems with hypoglycemia and, after a three day severe fast, that went away. I'm not advocating a severe fast to eliminate hypoglycemia, because it can have many causes, and that should be overseen by a doctor, but a severe fast can "reset" the body's metabolism after it's learned some bad habits. I also notice that I begin craving certain foods in response to deficits after a severe fast. With the standard "three squares a day", I tend to eat according to what time of day it is - not on the basis of what my body needs.

I can't find much on the Internet on fasting for survival (most is about how certain animals fast in survival situations such as hibernation), but I suspect that that's because no one has asked the question. Some things are so counter- intuitive that people don't even think to do the research.
crashdive123
11-28-2013, 02:52 PM
Rule of 4's huh?
hunter63
11-28-2013, 03:17 PM
I thought it was Rule of 3's
3 minutes without air - 3 hours without shelter

3 days without water - 3 weeks without food

Oh well, same principle.
RandyRhoads
11-28-2013, 03:21 PM
I thought it was Rule of 3's
3 minutes without air - 3 hours without shelter

3 days without water - 3 weeks without food

Oh well, same principle.

I was taught the same thing. Rule of threes, remember there's four of them....
tsitenha
11-28-2013, 03:54 PM
I kind of fasted every weekend for a couple of years no food just liquids. I worked in a toxic environment and was very careful as to any intake by mouth of foods or liquids.
Change of clothes and showered 3 times a day, stayed on site, only drank canned liquids and once can was opened was immediately consumed fully. Never was sick, but I cheated I carried emergency rations around my waist cleverly hidden under my uniform.
Never had any adverse effect that was noticeable.
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yellowcab
12-26-2025, 04:14 PM
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yellowcab
03-25-2026, 10:37 PM
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Васи (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/135252)фото (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/194031)Медв (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/58072)Rena (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/123611)Nora (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/52309)Will (http://jobstress.ru/t/52035)Toge (http://jogformation.ru/t/12100)9002 (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/17102)Rosa (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/122041)Eros (http://journallubricator.ru/t/121322)Gioc (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/96409)ката (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/35537)HoMM (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/26662)Turb (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/26231)Ches (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/24231)
Данг (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/52572)SPOR (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/24261)Жадь (http://kentishglory.ru/t/104893)Xbox (http://kerbweight.ru/t/25631)газе (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/28338)wwwb (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/24428)hidd (http://keyserum.ru/t/25665)Fats (http://kickplate.ru/t/128259)Hero (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/146507)Winx (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/101458)Bubc (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/103317)поко (http://kinozones.ru/film/1709)0208 (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/143676)Тайв (http://kneejoint.ru/t/134697)cott (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/1353)
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yellowcab
03-25-2026, 10:38 PM
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yellowcab
06-05-2026, 08:04 AM
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yellowcab
06-05-2026, 08:05 AM
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