SO......"WHAT do you thunk DHS is preparing for".........????

[Sourdough]

I have no idea what................but it ain't a hurricane.

http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/watch-marine-colonel-warns-homeland-security-is-pre-staging-gear-and-equipment_08152013

[Rick]

Certainly an unbiased source. Judging from the amount of advertising on the site we can pretty much tell the author has a vested interest in reporting what you want to hear.

[BENESSE]

What we’re doing here – let’s not kid about it – we’re building a domestic army and we’re shrinking the military because the government is afraid of its own citizens.


OK, I'll bite.

Could it be that now, more than ever, we're facing a threat of terrorism on our own land vs. abroad where the military is already deployed up to the gills?
What else are "we" supposed to do if we can't "re-purpose" the existing military because we are fighting an unconventional war and some of them them might be more useful here especially on the border?

[Sourdough]

If I lived in NYC or anyplace in lower 48 America, that is what I would keep telling myself over and over and over. I am sure it will be OK, well kind'a sure.......Hehehehe



OK, I'll bite.

Could it be that now, more than ever, we're facing a threat of terrorism on our own land vs. abroad where the military is already deployed up to the gills?
What else are "we" supposed to do if we can't "re-purpose" the existing military because we are fighting an unconventional war and some of them them might be more useful here especially on the border?

[Rick]

I'm curious. Does it not concern you that not a single mainstream media outlet has carried the story and the only place you can find it is passed from doom web site to doom website? If it were a real story don't you think that at least some mainstream news orgs would carry this? The Guardian? CBS? Someone? If some intrepid reporter could break this story it would be as huge as Watergate....if it were true.

[BENESSE]

If I lived in NYC or anyplace in lower 48 America, that is what I would keep telling myself over and over and over. I am sure it will be OK, well kind'a sure.......Hehehehe

So I guess, you post an article but you don't want to engage in a healthy discussion?
Talking about it takes too much effort especially if it requires you to make a persuasive argument...if you prefer, we can just agree with you, add more $hit to our preps and move on.

[Rick]

Apparently. He read it and left. Man!!! How's a guy supposed to have any fun around here when you can't question authority? Sheeeeesh.

[BENESSE]

It's like throwing a stink bomb and walking away.

[Sourdough]

Or you could ask............."Why, given that it is taxpayer money, and they are paid to serve, why can't they explain what they are doing & why". Surely they have as much creditability as, say the head of NSA...............who bald faced lied three months ago to U.S. Congress.

As to MSM, if that is trustworthy reporting, or avoiding reporting, or reporting what they are TOLD, and not reporting what they are TOLD to not report, I will pass on wait for MSM to put their gonads on the line.


I'm curious. Does it not concern you that not a single mainstream media outlet has carried the story and the only place you can find it is passed from doom web site to doom website? If it were a real story don't you think that at least some mainstream news orgs would carry this? The Guardian? CBS? Someone? If some intrepid reporter could break this story it would be as huge as Watergate....if it were true.

[Sourdough]

So I guess, you post an article but you don't want to engage in a healthy discussion?
Talking about it takes too much effort especially if it requires you to make a persuasive argument...if you prefer, we can just agree with you, add more $hit to our preps and move on.

NO......just drink more KOOL'AID..............!!!!!

[randyt]

that kool-aid goes good with a $hit sandwich

[BENESSE]

NO......just drink more KOOL'AID..............!!!!!

:surrender:

I think I'm gonna need something stronger.

[Sourdough]

:surrender:

I think I'm gonna need something stronger.

Try this on Lady B.......http://accordingtohoyt.com/2013/08/15/i-am-spartacus/

[Rick]

Or maybe MSM doesn't report it because it's hogwash? Last month we were talking about how great the Guardian was because they published Snowden's NSA info and now they just print what they are told to print. There are news organizations I don't trust because they have shown themselves to be less than truthful, have gone with stories that were not thoroughly researched and/or had reporters that were less the trustworthy. I don't believe that way about all or even most mainstream media. But when you look at an article and only the same doom websites carry it how can you not question its authenticity?

If you did any research on that article you'd find that part of it came from the regulation Military Support for Civilian Law Enforcement Agencies, which is designed to use military personnel to assist law enforcement in times of natural disasters. We slammed FEMA for not reacting in New Orleans and now, when we codify the ability of the military to do what we've been complaining about it's all part of a conspiracy. It's the same thing the National Guard has been doing all along. It just allows the military to react to disasters without having to wait for the Governor's request for aid. I don't know if it's good or bad but it's what we asked for.

It appears part of the article comes from a comment, taken out of context, made by a Lt. Col about using the military for homeland operations. He was speaking hypothetically about ways to justify the military budget now that Middle East operations are being ratcheted down.

Both of these were reported in main stream media to little fanfare. Does the military table top responses to civilian riots? Are response scenarios put together in order to quell uprisings and unrest. We'd better hope so just like they put scenarios together to defend against nuclear and biological attack, terrorist dirty bombs or pandemics. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it is a saying that comes to mind.

I don't think this is your problem or mine. I think people in general go through life with a set of beliefs and if we aren't careful we go about looking to justify those beliefs. We just grab whatever let's us say "told you so" without doing any background on it. The problem is there are folks out there that will tell us whatever we want to hear, good or bad, because it makes them money.

Our failure to see things in a balanced way is called a scotoma; a blind spot in our vision. To paraphrase Stephen Covey, when we believe something we look for justification of it. After a while, we only see that belief in life and exclude evidence to the contrary. It's like getting up in the morning and saying, "it's gonna be a crappy day". You'll go through the day only seeing those things that justify your crappy day and exclude the things that went right.

I'm guilty too. But I do read a couple of the gloom sites and I do research stuff that I believe in trying to avoid the above explained scotoma and trying to keep a balanced vision.

Here's a perfect example of mainstream media running the information by the government and still running with the story. It's breaking news. They have a vested, fiscal interest in reporting whether the government wants them to or not.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-broke-privacy-rules-thousands-of-times-per-year-audit-finds/2013/08/15/3310e554-05ca-11e3-a07f-49ddc7417125_story.html

[Ken]

“We cannot continue to rely only on our military.
in order to achieve the national security objectives that we’ve set.
We’ve gotta have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful,
just as strong, just as well funded as the United States military."
Barack Obama (2008 Presidential Candidate)



It makes me sad to say that I no longer have faith that our government will respond properly to any national emergency. The Bill of Rights was virtually dead during Hurricane Katrina and in Watertown, Massachusetts, after the Marathon bombings. The federal response to Hurricane Sandy was pathetic. Laws are ignored when it suits political agendas - security at our southern border comes to mind.

Are there ever repercussions to these incredibly significant, often criminal, violations of our Constitution and laws by our government officials?

Absolutely not! The media trumpets the "positive" and ignores the horrific abuses. Nobody gets fired. Nobody gets prosecuted. Nobody goes to prison. Most of the public simply ignores what occurred, and the rest of the public realizes that little can be done because we know that the government rarely polices itself.



.......I do research stuff that I believe in trying to avoid the above explained scotoma and trying to keep a balanced vision.

Exactly. That's why I get my "information" from a wide variety of sources, ranging from the Huffington Post to InfoWars to The New York Times to Fox News and CNN and The Washington Post and The Guardian and several dozen other mainstream and "alternative news" sources.

I place great value in the fact that responsible news sources most often verify their facts before they report "news." However, I'm equally concerned when legitimate and significant news events are ignored by major media sources or, because of political bias, get presented in a way that misrepresents the facts or diverts our attention from the most significant elements of an event. News reports about events like Benghazi, Fast and Furious, and the IRS scandal immediately come to mind. The media also has a way of ostracizing their own on some occasions when a major story breaks and shakes the foundations of what we believed. Even mainstream guys like Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein were viewed with tremendous skepticism when the Watergate story first broke.



Could it be that now, more than ever, we're facing a threat of terrorism on our own land..........?

What scares me here is my suspicion that government at all levels is redefining the word "terrorism." We now live in a nation reminiscent of Orwell's 1984, where double-speak and redefinition of the common vernacular is the norm.

Today, an argument between neighbors that includes a threat of violence, or a high school student submitting a fictional writing assignment that includes depictions of violence, will often result in criminal charges of threats of terrorism. And whatever you do, be extremely careful about the way you bite into a piece of bread unless you want to face dangerous weapons charges.

Isn't it "amusing" that our friend, DNI James Clapper, has avoided most of the firestorm that SHOULD have exploded in the mainstream media when he brazenly lied to Congress simply because our government has been given a "pass" to redefine simple English words in common usage? If you are permitted to refer to a "frog" as a "cow," is it a lie to testify that a majority of school kids drink frogs' milk in school cafeterias?

Do you remember when the word "privacy" meant PRIVACY?Government has thoughtfully redefined that for all of us. Today, "Privacy no longer can mean anonymity. Instead, it should mean that government and businesses properly safeguards people's private communications and financial information." (Donald Kerr, Deputy Director of National Intelligence)



Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it is a saying that comes to mind.

I generally feel that way as well as most people do. I NEVER leave my home with a gun hoping that I will need it to defend myself or anyone else. However, the government generally does NOT view things in the same way.

I have a difficult time remembering any technology, power, or authority that has not been abused by the government. Will the DHS be any different?



The Lessons Humans Fail to Learn: https://sites.google.com/site/melissam2013warningscom/misusing-technology

[Cast-Iron]

Well I had a very detailed bit of information to add here that had taken me over an hour to construct. Somehow it just vanished while I was in the process of finishing it up. I have neither the time nor the inclination to reconstruct it in it's entirety, so let me just mention the Carlyle Group. Google them and see where it leads you. A major defense contractor who has ties to Eric Snowden, George H W Bush, Frank Carlucci, James Clapper, John Major, and the Bin Laden family among others. An alarmingly powerful private enterprise which almost certainly wields too much influence over policy makers, defense policies, and their related expenditures.

Here's a link to a multi-part Exposé on Carlyle found on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ6Gw_r3hB0

[Rick]

1984 and Little Brother were fictional works of art written for the express purpose of making money. For anyone to use them as examples of government abuse is about as nonsensical as me proclaiming Shan OF The Dead and Juan Of The Dead are examples that zombies do exist. The rest of that we've discussed many times on here.

[Rick]

Both of you guys are missing the point here or simply trying to divert it. This isn't about whether the government does anything or not. This is about only posting gloom and doom or any other singular view for that matter and only posting biased supporting documentation. You've gone completely passed whether the information in the original link is true or not (it's clearly NOT true) to support your own views. Dissect the original link yourself and tell me it's true. That which is reported in the original link is a conglomeration of unrelated items merged into a single article in an effort to make something appear to be true.

Now, let's assume the government were doing exactly what that article professes. Fine, post a responsible article from an unbiased source and let the facts stand. In this case, in this article, they don't.

[Cast-Iron]

Now, let's assume the government were doing exactly what that article professes. Fine, post a responsible article from an unbiased source and let the facts stand. In this case, in this article, they don't.

Largely your opinion as to whether or not this is responsible or unbiased journalism. Personally I didn't find it too compelling but where there's smoke there's usually fire.

Anyway, I wasn't replying so much to the OP as I was to our national security industry in general. Ken's post raised some issues and I segued into what I believe is totally relevant information. Information which has helped me to develop a much clearer understanding of the inner workings of our federal government. It has put names and faces to some of the folks who operate in the shadows. If you're not familiar with the Carlyle group, please take the time to do your own research before you start throwing about accusations of personal agendas. I expect more from you. We can't hope to fix it if we're not even aware of its existence.

[Rick]

Hardly my opinion when you can prove an author's work is largely made up. That makes it biased journalism. I understand neither of you were replying to the OP just expressing your views and countering mine. However, my whole post was about the OP.

I'm completely aware of who the Carlyle group is. Again, I did not throw out any accusations or express my personal agenda. I simply stated the facts as they pertained to the article. On the contrary, it was you who posted your own agenda. That by your own admission. Take that! you scoundrel!

[Rick]

And while we're at it....can you find a little less biased group than RageAgainstTheEstablishment.net? I think the name says it all. LOL.

[Cast-Iron]

Really??? I don't care if its put out by the Chinese Communist Party, if you care to dispute what are presented as facts in the video, I'll oblige you. If you want to keep attacking the messenger, I fail to understand how that offers anything constructive. Please don't waste my time.

[BENESSE]

Let's be honest here.
Have these "discussions" ever gone anywhere other than the ditch?

9360

[Sourdough]

Where they go is not what is important, what is important is that the conversation even exists. What appalls me is that the checks and balances of our government don't seem to be working.

As to my original post I simply asked a question. I like President Obama's answer (Supplied by KEN)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2yGzHfy7s


“We cannot continue to rely only on our military.
in order to achieve the national security objectives that we’ve set.
We’ve gotta have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful,
just as strong, just as well funded as the United States military."
Barack Obama (2008 Presidential Candidate)

And the answer frightens me, It frightens other Americans also. Clearly DHS is preparing for "SOMETHING"................I think we Americans are entitled to know what. And if I was a American who had to pay Federal Income Tax...............I would damn sure what to know "WHY".



Let's be honest here.
Have these "discussions" ever gone anywhere other than the ditch?

[Rick]

Largely your opinion....you start throwing about accusations of personal agendas. I expect more from you.

I'M attacking the messenger? LOL. All you have ever done is post how the world is ending. I don't think you have the first post on the outdoors. You are too busy trying to convince everyone of your own paranoia. You claim to want to preserve America yet when a group of investors succeed and manage to build a profitable corporation...something we call the American dream...they must certainly wield too much power, be a lacky for the government or be part of some conspiracy. I guess you just want to preserve YOUR vision of America. Try posting something on the outdoors.....please.

I won't waste your time. I've played with you from time to time but it's clear you can't contribute to a civil discussion if someone disagrees with you. May I suggest you put me on ignore?

[BENESSE]

Where they go is not what is important, what is important is that the conversation even exists.

If only...
There's no conversation here if it challenges the OP in any way. At least not according to an accepted definition:

con·verse 1
intr.v. con·versed, con·vers·ing, con·vers·es

1. To engage in a spoken exchange of thoughts, ideas, or feelings; talk.

2. Archaic To be familiar; associate.

n. (khttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/obreve.gifnhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/prime.gifvûrshttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/lprime.gif)1. Spoken interchange of thoughts and feelings; conversation.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/converse

[Sourdough]

If only...
There's no conversation here if it challenges the OP in any way. At least not according to an accepted definition:

con·verse 1
intr.v. con·versed, con·vers·ing, con·vers·es

1. To engage in a spoken exchange of thoughts, ideas, or feelings; talk.

2. Archaic To be familiar; associate.

n. (khttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/obreve.gifnhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/prime.gifvûrshttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/lprime.gif)1. Spoken interchange of thoughts and feelings; conversation.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/converse



Number (1) ONE looks like what is happening here to me.

[welderguy]

I have as of late been avoiding these conversations, for two reasons, One they just go in circles, and two I'm not into conspiracy theories. Sure something is brewing thats a given, Who has documented proof from a reputable source to prove what that is ?
And next thing, Sourdough You keep talking boots in the field , when do you find time for boots in the field and still have time for all these conspiracy posts?

[welderguy]

Let's be honest here.
Have these "discussions" ever gone anywhere other than the ditch?

9360

had you said gutter instead of ditch , i would have complained. because there isn't room in the gutter for all these posts and my MIND too.

[Ken]

May I suggest you put me on ignore?

Is there a way I can just put your "Hong Posts" on ignore? :wacko:

[welderguy]

Is there a way I can just put your "Hong Posts" on ignore? :wacko:

OMG , are you saying Rick keeps his hong on a post. I missed that thread Thank God!!!

[Cast-Iron]

Sadly Rick, you're wrong again. I've offered advice on many outdoor topics when I feel I have something of value to contribute. But I don't feel the need to comment on every topic (much to the relief of this forum I might add). For example, I don't have a keen interest in knife making so I don't contribute often to those threads other than to compliment some of the craftsmanship that has gone into the final results.

I hate to be the one to burst your bubble, but the world is coming to an end. Shortly after our sun explodes we can expect all that surrounds us to vaporize. Might only be a billion or so years from now too! Better pack light.

Why must you frequently carry my arguments (and those of other likeminded individuals) to some extreme conclusion? I have used what I believe to be accurate and pertinent facts to point out abuses within our system. If you are as familiar with the Carlyle Group as you allege, how do you explain the attempt in Bush II's budget to fund the UDI's Crusader project even though senior pentagon officials said it was too big, too slow, and not the type of system needed for the types of conflict we were most likely to find ourselves in? Surely it had nothing to do with George Sr. being in a paid position at Carlyle? This isn't conspiracy or fiction it's fact. Even though this project was derailed by the efforts of a Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney, how many other wastes of our tax dollars and future debt obligations did get funded? It cost Ms. McKinney her re-election bid too when republicans en masse voted in the democratic primary. This isn't speculation sir, again it's fact. I find it alarming (not earth-ending as the extreme you tend to carry it to) that the Carlyle Group through it's wholly owned subsidiaries is providing intelligence analysts and sophisticated weapons systems to our government. I worry when there is a rotating door policy which allows senior government officials to develop agency policies one day and then exploit those policies the next day as a for profit consultant, speaker, private contractor, or employee. Especially when the enterprise is a privately held group with little or no public accountability or oversight. You can't see any potential for conflict of interest in this?

There has been a tremendous consolidation of wealth in our country since the collapse of 2008. Is it because all wealthy people are inherently more productive? I think it's more likely attributable to crony capitalism. You know the good old boy network. How many millions of hardworking Americans now find themselves under or unemployed? How many have had their life savings wiped out by the massive fraud perpetrated within the real estate and securities industries? How many big banks got bailed out with taxpayer relief?

I'm not all doomsday, but I try to keep my eye on the ball. If you can't understand the difference, that's not my problem! A lot of people have legitimate concerns about the course this country is on. Ignoring those concerns does nothing to produce reform or change. Furthermore the very basis for our liberties, the US Constitution is under attack from within. Unreasonable search and seizures. The suspension of Habeas Corpus. A domestic military complex emerging under the guise of another law enforcement agency. An executive branch usurping legislative powers and ignoring laws it chooses not to enforce. How can anyone, who cherishes what our forefathers fought and died to establish, not find the extent of these incursions alarming?

[Ken]

1984 and Little Brother were fictional works of art written for the express purpose of making money. For anyone to use them as examples of government abuse is about as nonsensical as me proclaiming Shan OF The Dead and Juan Of The Dead are examples that zombies do exist. The rest of that we've discussed many times on here.

Rick, I don't believe that the intent was to use either work as an example of government abuse. However, I do think it's frightening that many of the fictional depictions in both works seem to be happening today in some form or another.

As optimistic as I try to be about the future of our nation, one fact and one fact alone has convinced me that government has established itself as a privileged class, and that is the fact that government routinely exempts itself and its political allies from laws that the average person on the street MUST comply with. I may begin to feel differently if, as a start, Michelle Obama, Malia Ann Obama, and Sasha Obama were IMPARTIALLY covered under all of the provisions of Obamacare, and if the Congressional and federal pension systems were abolished and all government employees and officials, at every level, were forced into the Social Security system like the rest of us.

[SLVRBK]

As optimistic as I try to be about the future of our nation, one fact and one fact alone has convinced me that government has established itself as a privileged class, and that is the fact that government routinely exempts itself and its political allies from laws that the average person on the street MUST comply with.

It really pisses me off when you STEAL my thoughts before I have a chance to type them myself. I'm glad you live in Tax-a-chusetts as I don't know the great Republic of Texas can handle two of us.

With that being said:

1. Don't fool yourself - the government doesn't have your best interest in mind, those days were over when they signed a deal with the devil, the Federal Reserve in 1913.
2. Conspiracy theories - there is a place for them. The government will never broadcast what it is doing and sadly enough it is our job to keep them on their toes.
3. Media - the media has become a 4th branch of the government. This includes all outlets. Now more than ever they bait you into their ratings and are controlled by the fools in DC. Not to bring up another sore subject but the latest example of this was the Trayvon Martin trial. That was buffoon city.
4. Discussions like this are good. They may get heated, you may temporarily want to choke the other side but when discussions like this cease..... we should all be worried.
5. Never. Ever. Be complacent.

Good weekend ya'll, I'm roasting my *** off here in Texas.

[welderguy]

It really pisses me off when you STEAL my thoughts before I have a chance to type them myself. I'm glad you live in Tax-a-chusetts as I don't know the great Republic of Texas can handle two of us.

With that being said:

1. Don't fool yourself - the government doesn't have your best interest in mind, those days were over when they signed a deal with the devil, the Federal Reserve in 1913.
2. Conspiracy theories - there is a place for them. The government will never broadcast what it is doing and sadly enough it is our job to keep them on their toes.
3. Media - the media has become a 4th branch of the government. This includes all outlets. Now more than ever they bait you into their ratings and are controlled by the fools in DC. Not to bring up another sore subject but the latest example of this was the Trayvon Martin trial. That was buffoon city.
4. Discussions like this are good. They may get heated, you may temporarily want to choke the other side but when discussions like this cease..... we should all be worried.
5. Never. Ever. Be complacent.

Good weekend ya'll, I'm roasting my *** off here in Texas.

It isn't the case with me of being or becoming complacent, I am very vocal about my rights and freedoms being screwed with. The way I am looking at it now is, Its time to do something about it, There are hundreds of thousands of people that feel the way we do, Well then unite and get it over with once and for all, How much Talking and complaining can be done, before words become actions.
Take Snowden for example, he went public with wire tapping intel, did it stop the problem NOPE, all it did was confirm it the public that it wasn't just a conspiracy theory and Pizzed a lot of people off, and those same people still use cell phones, the internet, email, GPS, Etc Etc.
What Actions need to be taken for OUR voices to be heard? who needs to hear our issues, because I haven't found that person yet,All I have heard are empty promises so far!

I'm not roasting I'm sweltering in this friggin humidity, just enough rain to make it miserable:cursing:

[Ken]

It really pisses me off when you STEAL my thoughts before I have a chance to type them myself. I'm glad you live in Tax-a-chusetts as I don't know the great Republic of Texas can handle two of us.

Good weekend ya'll, I'm roasting my *** off here in Texas.

Remember, it is far better to be pissed off by me than it is to be pissed on by the government.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh152/crazymofaux/smiley-pee-face.gif


77* here in Southcoast Massachusetts.

[BENESSE]

Remember, it is far better to be pissed off by me than it is to be pissed on by the government.

Didn't know there was a choice. :sneaky2:

[Ken]

Didn't know there was a choice. :sneaky2:

There isn't. :innocent:

[Sourdough]

I think & FEAR that a rebellion is ****EXACTLY**** what DHS is preparing for. Sadly, very sadly, any rebellion/revolution/uprising will be crushed, and crushed so violently that it will be clear who will make the rules going forward. We have exactly the leadership now that we deserve. We have allowed ourselves to be seduced..........and we are going to get screwed, violently. I am sad for America, I am sad for freedom loving Americans.





It isn't the case with me of being or becoming complacent, I am very vocal about my rights and freedoms being screwed with. The way I am looking at it now is, Its time to do something about it, There are hundreds of thousands of people that feel the way we do, Well then unite and get it over with once and for all, How much Talking and complaining can be done, before words become actions.
Take Snowden for example, he went public with wire tapping intel, did it stop the problem NOPE, all it did was confirm it the public that it wasn't just a conspiracy theory and Pizzed a lot of people off, and those same people still use cell phones, the internet, email, GPS, Etc Etc.
What Actions need to be taken for OUR voices to be heard? who needs to hear our issues, because I haven't found that person yet,All I have heard are empty promises so far!

I'm not roasting I'm sweltering in this friggin humidity, just enough rain to make it miserable:cursing:

[welderguy]

I think & FEAR that a rebellion is ****EXACTLY**** what DHS is preparing for. Sadly, very sadly, any rebellion/revolution/uprising will be crushed, and crushed so violently that it will be clear who will make the rules going forward. We have exactly the leadership now that we deserve. We have allowed ourselves to be seduced..........and we are going to get screwed, violently. I am sad for America, I am sad for freedom loving Americans.
So in a nutshell what your saying is there is nothing we can do but whine about it on a forum!

[Sourdough]

NO......people could move, either to a different country, or to a rural area of America. I suspect that some areas of the country will be a better living environment. I feel that if people have the money, and are planning to someday buy a remote property, I think now is the time to make that purchase.
I am saying the we have waited too long, fighting is not an option. I think there will be a fight/riots/etc. but it will be crushed violently, so as to make a point. I say people should stop being in denial about what is clearly already happening & will accelerate happening.



So in a nutshell what your saying is there is nothing we can do but whine about it on a forum!

[Ken]

..........it will be crushed violently.

I respectfully disagree, my good friend. However, I'm not about to say WHY over the internet.

[hunter63]

....You know, I was gonna wait till 5:00 PM for a beer......3:51 is close enough,.... grass is cut,... don't know what the end game is here.....People getting owl-ly.....can't do much about it anyway...Friday night....Think I gonna have a beer or 6.
Y'all carry on.......

[welderguy]

....You know, I was gonna wait till 5:00 PM for a beer......3:51 is close enough,.... grass is cut,... don't know what the end game is here.....People getting owl-ly.....can't do much about it anyway...Friday night....Think I gonna have a beer or 6.
Y'all carry on.......

Have one or six for me too hunter!!!

[welderguy]

NO......people could move, either to a different country, or to a rural area of America. I suspect that some areas of the country will be a better living environment. I feel that if people have the money, and are planning to someday buy a remote property, I think now is the time to make that purchase.
I am saying the we have waited too long, fighting is not an option. I think there will be a fight/riots/etc. but it will be crushed violently, so as to make a point. I say people should stop being in denial about what is clearly already happening & will accelerate happening.
So everyone that is aware of the situation, and can see what is happening, should, Sell established businesses, sell everything, and move to another country, or a remote area of this country, and that would stop the problems in our government How? I don't see running away or hiding as a viable option to stop what is happening.
I don't doubt a rebellion would be met with violence, but I do not think it would be crushed very easy. If it were that simple to crush a rebellion, then the civil wars that have been raging all over the world for years should have been over a long long time ago.

[welderguy]

I respectfully disagree, my good friend. However, I'm not about to say WHY over the internet.

or by email, or cell phone, or text, or CB. hey can they tap smoke signals?

[hunter63]

Ahhh, that was good.....time for beer 2.......Watering the flowers......

[welderguy]

Ahhh, that was good.....time for beer 2.......Watering the flowers......

wow that first one went right thru ya didn't it!!!:innocent:

[hunter63]

....Nope didn't pop the cork.... yet...sush....don't bring it up........DOOMED we are all DOOMED.....Beer three.....
"I just dropped in to see what condition my condition was in".......I think it was Kenny Rodgers sang that.....

"Pushed my soul into a deep dark hole and followed it in......."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4ttKMXU4TU

[Rick]

My lawn chair is out and I have my popcorn. Let the riots begin!!

Schedules...get your schedules here....Schedules.

Oooh. bayonets. Nice touch. Hunter...pass me a beer.

http://educationviews.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/720px-3rd-street-national-guard-clearing-street-sept-28-1966.jpg (http://educationviews.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/720px-3rd-street-national-guard-clearing-street-sept-28-1966.jpg)

[hunter63]

Here ya go......(passing brewski).....shades of the '60's.......Friend was in the Guard...got a ribbon for "Battle of Detroit"......they lost, I guess......

[Rick]

Buhahahaha. They lost. Pretty funny.

[hunter63]

I thinking that all the world problems are gonna get solved,.....here directly....Oh wait, gotta take a whizz............................................. ........OK back....yeah problems...what were we talking about?

[welderguy]

I thinking that all the world problems are gonna get solved,.....here directly....Oh wait, gotta take a whizz............................................. ........OK back....yeah problems...what were we talking about?

When!!!!!!!!!

[BENESSE]

SD...I have no doubt that your heart is in the right place.
That you are concerned. Disappointed. Maybe hopeless. And that you believe you're in the best place to ride out whatever you think is looming.
But you need to understand that people may not share your urgency to act, and even if they did, may not have the flexibility to just pick up and move the way some unencumbered, in their own world newbies think they can run off to the wilderness and live off the fat of the land.
(You'll probably be tempted to use pre Hitler European Jews who stayed behind, as a go-to example. An extreme case to be sure and a valid one, given the circumstances of that time. But this ain't it.)

I'm surprised that "live, and let live" doesn't figure in more in your way of thinking. You've certainly benefited from it.

[welderguy]

So what would you all say the number of people are that hate what is happening, lets say a third of the population thats about ....103 million people that feel the way a lot of us do, What would happen if all them people stopped paying taxes ?, what if all them people only bought from import companies and cut out any made in USA purchases? What would be the outcome of something like that!

[Rick]

You don't truly believe that will occur do you? Do you think you can get 103 million people to decide on anything? Even the color of the sky? Do have even have high hopes of getting 3 people to agree?

In the interest of fairness and so everyone has an equal opportunity to worry any of you can pick you favorite conspiracy from this list. First come, first served.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conspiracy_theories

[BENESSE]

It's a trick question, right?
You could never get a third of the population to do ANYthing.

[BENESSE]

I take that back...
you might be able to get them to eat a triple whopper.

[Rick]

Here's a better question. Of all those on here that think we are doomed how many voted in the last federal election? State election? If I were a betting man I would bet even money that half are not even registered. How many telephone calls, letters or emails have they sent to their elected officials trying to make it better?

I don't need a litany of "I did" responses. You know what I'm saying and you know it is probably true.

[Sourdough]

I have never thought it was any kind of Conspiracy.

And for the record I do NOT consider myself a doomer.

I have always voted in all state and federal elections. I am registered as "Undeclared". Because if registered as a Republican, the Alaska Republican party has a "CLOSED" ticket, you can only vote for 100% Republican candidates.


In the interest of fairness and so everyone has an equal opportunity to worry any of you can pick you favorite conspiracy from this list. First come, first served.

[welderguy]

You don't truly believe that will occur do you? Do you think you can get 103 million people to decide on anything? Even the color of the sky? Do have even have high hopes of getting 3 people to agree?

In the interest of fairness and so everyone has an equal opportunity to worry any of you can pick you favorite conspiracy from this list. First come, first served.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conspiracy_theories

Not one bit, just had to throw that out there, I'm more worried about the secret cities under our cities right now to worry about anything else.

[welderguy]

It's a trick question, right?
You could never get a third of the population to do ANYthing.

Yes it is and the answer is HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[welderguy]

Here's a better question. Of all those on here that think we are doomed how many voted in the last federal election? State election? If I were a betting man I would bet even money that half are not even registered. How many telephone calls, letters or emails have they sent to their elected officials trying to make it better?

I don't need a litany of "I did" responses. You know what I'm saying and you know it is probably true.
I agree 100% , Your not the only one that thinks that!

[Cast-Iron]

So what would you all say the number of people are that hate what is happening, lets say a third of the population thats about ....103 million people that feel the way a lot of us do, What would happen if all them people stopped paying taxes ?, what if all them people only bought from import companies and cut out any made in USA purchases? What would be the outcome of something like that!

I don't think hate describes my sentiment and very likely the sentiment of the other individuals in your demographic "third". I am concerned and alarmed, but I am not hateful. I am concerned about the apparent lack of concern. I am concerned too many people are treading water and haven't the resources or ability to hold their government accountable. I am concerned about the dumbing down of our children through state-run education. It has all the appearances of an economic elite class which perpetuates itself at the expense of a manipulated comatic working class.

Repeatedly over the past few months, federal officials have come before congressional committees and given false or misleading testimony. Had you or I done this we would almost assuredly be prosecuted for perjury or some related offense. The political/bureaucratic class continues to place requirements and restrictions upon the working class but finds it necessary to exempt themselves. What happened to all men being created equal?

Don't expect a slowdown in tax receipts to slow down our federal government either. They've already demonstrated that they're more than willing to fire up the printing press to make up any shortfall. The hidden tax of expanding our money supply is like the blade of the guillotine waiting to fall. If oil trades widely in anything other than US dollars, you should expect and prepare for the collapse of our dollar. It is perhaps the most significant mechanism remaining for propping up it's value. Reportedly China and India have both been buying oil from Iran with gold. Two countries the US can't coerce militarily or economically. If this gains momentum will we invade Iran? "When your only tool is a hammer, all of your problems look like nails", to quote General Wesley Clark, US Army Retired, when asked about invading Iran.

I want to see reform. I want to see those who have illegally stepped all over our constitutional protections tried for their treasonous acts. Can it happen? I still believe that it can. Will it happen anytime soon? It could but that's not very realistic. We must be in this for the long haul for it to have any real chance of success. I will continue to make my voice heard through my ballot and in continued correspondence with my elected representatives. If they make a vote which seems to defy the interests of their constituents, I will call them out on it. If they do it with any regularity I will work to replace them.

[Rick]

I'm concerned about shrooms.

[Sourdough]

You are expressing exactly my feelings, Thank you, Tried to give you some reputation points, but I could not.



I don't think hate describes my sentiment and very likely the sentiment of the other individuals in your demographic "third". I am concerned and alarmed, but I am not hateful. I am concerned about the apparent lack of concern. I am concerned too many people are treading water and haven't the resources or ability to hold their government accountable. I am concerned about the dumbing down of our children through state-run education. It has all the appearances of an economic elite class which perpetuates itself at the expense of a manipulated comatic working class.

Repeatedly over the past few months, federal officials have come before congressional committees and given false or misleading testimony. Had you or I done this we would almost assuredly be prosecuted for perjury or some related offense. The political/bureaucratic class continues to place requirements and restrictions upon the working class but finds it necessary to exempt themselves. What happened to all men being created equal?

Don't expect a slowdown in tax receipts to slow down our federal government either. They've already demonstrated that they're more than willing to fire up the printing press to make up any shortfall. The hidden tax of expanding our money supply is like the blade of the guillotine waiting to fall. If oil trades widely in anything other than US dollars, you should expect and prepare for the collapse of our dollar. It is perhaps the most significant mechanism remaining for propping up it's value. Reportedly China and India have both been buying oil from Iran with gold. Two countries the US can't coerce militarily or economically. If this gains momentum will we invade Iran? "When your only tool is a hammer, all of your problems look like nails", General Wesley Clark.

I want to see reform. I want to see those who have illegally stepped all over our constitutional protections tried for their treasonous acts. Can it happen? I still believe that it can. Will it happen anytime soon? It could but that's not very realistic. We must be in this for the long haul for it to have any real chance of success. I will continue to make my voice heard through my ballot and in continued correspondence with my elected representatives. If they make a vote which seems to defy the interests of their constituents, I will call them out on it. If they do it with any regularity I will work to replace them.

[hunter63]

Got it covered SD...well written and well said, Cast Iron.
Rep sent.

[Cast-Iron]

You are expressing exactly my feelings, Thank you, Tried to give you some reputation points, but I could not.

Thanks SD! Keep the faith. There are many among us who already see this world for what it is. Our numbers will continue to grow as long as we can confront the status quo with the facts. Some will ignore the evidence and insist upon attacking the messenger. Claiming we're all tin foil wearing, conspiracy riddled, underground dwelling "shrooms". Hey that's their right, even if they're wrong. I go a bit overboard on occasion, so I shouldn't expect anything more from a lesser man.

EDIT: Thanks h63! I just saw your post.

[welderguy]

cast-iron, SD, when you send these letters and make these calls, do you get a personal reply from your REP? I don't I get a standard reply letter, Do you actually get to talk to your rep or congressman? I don't, I get a "we will forward your message" then i get a call back from my reps rep or my congressman's rep!!
You can only beat a dead horse so many times before you have to bury it because at some point it just stinks the place up! I would bet money you're not preaching to a uncaring or unknowing crowd here! I agree with most of what you say about our government and how things are going in this country, But at what point will we be heard, Who in our system really cares to make a change, What is it going to take, will I even be alive to see that change take place!
What has changed my whole thought process on being heard and things changing if everyone sends letters makes calls votes etc etc etc , And I referenced it before was the Snowden wire tap leak. Here is a guy that came forward, revealed with proof that our government was spying on us at a very detailed level, they ( gov't) in a nutshell said "Yep we are and will continue to do so". How did that leak change anything? all it did was make it public.
I am to the point now that I have resigned myself to say , WE ARE SCREWED, I'm just going to deal with it and take it as it comes, because the hundreds or letters and dozens of calls i've made I truly believe they fell on deaf ears.
What i have come to See for a fact first hand is that most people that are letter and phone warriors, are very much like that kid at school that talks tough acts tough and says he is a bad azz, and the first time he is challenged he tucks tail and runs.

[BENESSE]

Cast-Iron, I don't disagree with anything in your post#65. I share your sentiments & frustrations. Like Welderguy, I've done all reasonably possible to let the right people know about it. And I vote.
What else can I do?!
If the system continues, it must be because "we" are in a minority, and the culprits get voted in my the majority who are either misguided or benefit directly from the corrupt system.
But life goes on. I am not moving abroad nor am I running off into the wilderness. Why is that worth of condemnation?

[Rick]

Some will ignore the evidence and insist upon attacking the messenger. Claiming we're all tin foil wearing, conspiracy riddled, underground dwelling "shrooms". Hey that's their right, even if they're wrong. I go a bit overboard on occasion, so I shouldn't expect anything more from a lesser man.

Since I'm the only one that has used the term "shroom" why didn't you just address that to me? Even if they are wrong. How self righteous, sanctimonious and egotistical can you be?



do you get a personal reply from your REP?

Your question was not to me so if I'm out of line with my answer then just disregard. I don't know that anyone would ever receive a personal answer from their rep. I don't know that they have the time to craft a personal response themselves given the number of contacts they must receive along with all the other responsibilities they have. I can tell you that I have never received a form letter as a response from either of my Senators or my Representative. That has been true for years and still is. Someone in their office is wordsmithing the answer and it always includes a reference(s) to something I've put in my letter, their position on the subject as well as where I can find additional information on how they voted on the subject, bills they've (co)sponsored or something similar.

[welderguy]

I have decided this will be my last post on this thread... So all I will say is...

STOP B!TCHING AND "BOOTS IN THE FIELD", Cause if you're in the field you're not whining about our corrupt government, saying the same things over and over with nothing changing.

OK I lied my reply below to cast iron may be my last . just depends.

[Cast-Iron]

@WG

I almost always get the generic form letter response from my Congressman and Senators. However, I did get a call from my Congressman's office a few weeks back. I was startled to say the least (I really don't care for his voting record and I've informed his office of that fact). I don't expect my communications to make much of a difference by themselves. I do think if they receive enough input it has to make a difference. From what I've witnessed in my few decades as a voter, the last side standing usually wins. That's why a lot of bonds up for voter approval get placed on off-year election ballots. The special interest groups know they can count on voter apathy as a part of the political equation to win approval. If they don't get it this time, they'll just change it up a bit and try next election.
As for my Senators, I live in a very republican district that shows up to vote, so they come to town every year or two to speak with a civic group or two and meet with other constituents. Honestly I've never made the effort to go because I usually have little or no notice of these appearances. But there are some things I might want to ask Senator Cruz the next time he passes through.

[welderguy]

@WG

I almost always get the generic form letter response from my Congressman and Senators. However, I did get a call from my Congressman's office a few weeks back. I was startled to say the least (I really don't care for his voting record and I've informed his office of that fact). I don't expect my communications to make much of a difference by themselves. I do think if they receive enough input it has to make a difference. From what I've witnessed in my few decades as a voter, the last side standing usually wins. That's why a lot of bonds up for voter approval get placed on off-year election ballots. The special interest groups know they can count on voter apathy as a part of the political equation to win approval. If they don't get it this time, they'll just change it up a bit and try next election.
As for my Senators, I live in a very republican district that shows up to vote, so they come to town every year or two to speak with a civic group or two and meet with other constituents. Honestly I've never made the effort to go because I usually have little or no notice of these appearances. But there are some things I might want to ask Senator Cruz the next time he passes through.

I do agree with a lot of stuff you post, and I wish as you and others that things change and change soon, but I dont see that happening, not with letters and words alone, until something snaps and the tower of power comes crashing down on their heads then it may change , who knows it may change for the worse. I am just so lettered out and never seeing a genuine response to anything I have said or asked!!!
I guess what i am wanting to see or hear is a solution, I see and hear all the problems we face, I read about them everyday, What I want is to see a real plan backed by a majority of people and followed thru , whatever that plan may be. I never see any good ideas or useful suggestions to resolve these problems, Its always the same thing, send letters call, vote.
Im sure im not the only one, but DAMN I want to see some changes and I want them NOW!!!!!!!! Now How do we do that?

[Cast-Iron]

I do agree with a lot of stuff you post, and I wish as you and others that things change and change soon, but I dont see that happening, not with letters and words alone, until something snaps and the tower of power comes crashing down on their heads then it may change , who knows it may change for the worse. I am just so lettered out and never seeing a genuine response to anything I have said or asked!!!
I guess what i am wanting to see or hear is a solution, I see and hear all the problems we face, I read about them everyday, What I want is to see a real plan backed by a majority of people and followed thru , whatever that plan may be. I never see any good ideas or useful suggestions to resolve these problems, Its always the same thing, send letters call, vote.
Im sure im not the only one, but DAMN I want to see some changes and I want them NOW!!!!!!!! Now How do we do that?

You know if I had that answer I would have "shared" it here already. Don't get discouraged and don't become complacent. Slow and steady's the course. First try to stay informed and ALWAYS hold your elected officials accountable. When a bill comes up for a vote, express your position to them then get online and see how they actually voted. If you think they voted wrong, call them out on it! Start a tally of these "bad" votes and talk with those around you when they do something you admire or something highly suspect. This has been made so much more user friendly with the internet. When they realize enough people are actually starting to hold them accountable, they'll either improve their performance as an elected representative or they'll be looking for a new gig. That's my plan anyways.

Another thought on this subject is to become engaged in the election process. There were many episodes of party manipulation with regards to one of the republican presidential candidates. Jon Stewart did an exposé of the obvious media bias of the primary process. A funny three and a half minutes, but scary when you realize it actually happened. Here's the link to that:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-august-15-2011/indecision-2012---corn-polled-edition---ron-paul---the-top-tier

[SHTFMIKE]

I have no idea what................but it ain't a hurricane.

http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/watch-marine-colonel-warns-homeland-security-is-pre-staging-gear-and-equipment_08152013


Well, they ain't buying billions of rounds of ammo for nothing. I think they're preparing for a war on American soil with it's own people.
What does an out of control government do when it wants total control?

This.

[Rick]

Or maybe since all the departments that used to buy ammo on their own are now under the DHS umbrella and it just makes it look that way.

[Wildthang]

Another news story I'm glad I missed!

[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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Bosc (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/98125)вход (http://oceanmining.ru/shop/458084)Roya (http://octupolephonon.ru/shop/1149800)Wind (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/147574)John (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/199961)Simm (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/146995)Shut (http://onesticket.ru/shop/378994)Ð�кад (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/579422)Форм (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/680502)заве (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/202917)диÑ�Ñ� (http://palmberry.ru/shop/204807)ЛитÐ* (http://papercoating.ru/shop/580617)Семе (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/684869)Воло (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1166098)Лили (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1166250)
Тадж (http://partfamily.ru/shop/1165176)Крам (http://partialmajorant.ru/shop/1167929)Перф (http://quadrupleworm.ru/shop/1485640)Jose (http://qualitybooster.ru/shop/229278)Иллю (http://quasimoney.ru/shop/593588)авто (http://quenchedspark.ru/shop/593676)Char (http://quodrecuperet.ru/shop/913565)Serg (http://rabbetledge.ru/shop/1070965)Milt (http://radialchaser.ru/shop/160630)Теле (http://radiationestimator.ru/shop/444757)Adob (http://railwaybridge.ru/shop/345933)Alek (http://randomcoloration.ru/shop/510201)недо (http://rapidgrowth.ru/shop/635702)черн (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru/shop/1075470)Simo (http://reachthroughregion.ru/shop/174031)
Yard (http://readingmagnifier.ru/shop/443823)Incl (http://rearchain.ru/shop/360878)Butc (http://recessioncone.ru/shop/513550)XVII (http://recordedassignment.ru/shop/878935)Шапи (http://rectifiersubstation.ru/shop/1052253)�ове (http://redemptionvalue.ru/shop/1058923)Pete (http://reducingflange.ru/shop/1672428)Клов (http://referenceantigen.ru/shop/1692469)Солю (http://regeneratedprotein.ru/shop/1228882)Bill (http://reinvestmentplan.ru/shop/121406)Virg (http://safedrilling.ru/shop/1329476)�ожа (http://sagprofile.ru/shop/1046034)Mich (http://salestypelease.ru/shop/1064898)Коле (http://samplinginterval.ru/shop/1417321)Walk (http://satellitehydrology.ru/shop/1457319)
Кред (http://scarcecommodity.ru/shop/1437923)Поно (http://scrapermat.ru/shop/1457369)Форм (http://screwingunit.ru/shop/1492204)возр (http://seawaterpump.ru/shop/179037)губе (http://secondaryblock.ru/shop/249543)пере (http://secularclergy.ru/shop/271657)Micr (http://seismicefficiency.ru/shop/41739)�ико (http://selectivediffuser.ru/shop/375494)Driv (http://semiasphalticflux.ru/shop/398774)PONS (http://semifinishmachining.ru/shop/415048)ориг (http://spicetrade.ru)ориг (http://spysale.ru)ориг (http://stungun.ru)Helg (http://tacticaldiameter.ru/shop/475739)Прои (http://tailstockcenter.ru/shop/488754)
Forw (http://tamecurve.ru/shop/82641)Смир (http://tapecorrection.ru/shop/476931)Quak (http://tappingchuck.ru/shop/485117)Davi (http://taskreasoning.ru/shop/497020)Book (http://technicalgrade.ru/shop/1816651)Chri (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru/shop/1856514)Mana (http://telescopicdamper.ru/shop/620463)Шала (http://temperateclimate.ru/shop/272350)Ва�ы (http://temperedmeasure.ru/shop/398743)�мба (http://tenementbuilding.ru/shop/957036)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)Мало (http://ultramaficrock.ru/shop/974967)Paul (http://ultraviolettesting.ru/shop/477179)

[yellowcab]

�айт (http://audiobookkeeper.ru)�айт (http://cottagenet.ru)�айт (http://eyesvision.ru)�айт (http://eyesvisions.com)�айт (http://factoringfee.ru)�айт (http://filmzones.ru)�айт (http://gadwall.ru)�айт (http://gaffertape.ru)�айт (http://gageboard.ru)�айт (http://gagrule.ru)�айт (http://gallduct.ru)�айт (http://galvanometric.ru)�айт (http://gangforeman.ru)�айт (http://gangwayplatform.ru)�айт (http://garbagechute.ru)
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�айт (http://habeascorpus.ru)�айт (http://habituate.ru)�айт (http://hackedbolt.ru)�айт (http://hackworker.ru)�айт (http://hadronicannihilation.ru)�айт (http://haemagglutinin.ru)�айт (http://hailsquall.ru)�айт (http://hairysphere.ru)�айт (http://halforderfringe.ru)�айт (http://halfsiblings.ru)�айт (http://hallofresidence.ru)�айт (http://haltstate.ru)�айт (http://handcoding.ru)�айт (http://handportedhead.ru)�айт (http://handradar.ru)
�айт (http://handsfreetelephone.ru)�айт (http://hangonpart.ru)�айт (http://haphazardwinding.ru)�айт (http://hardalloyteeth.ru)�айт (http://hardasiron.ru)�айт (http://hardenedconcrete.ru)�айт (http://harmonicinteraction.ru)�айт (http://hartlaubgoose.ru)�айт (http://hatchholddown.ru)�айт (http://haveafinetime.ru)�айт (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru)�айт (http://headregulator.ru)�айт (http://heartofgold.ru)�айт (http://heatageingresistance.ru)�айт (http://heatinggas.ru)
�айт (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru)�айт (http://jacketedwall.ru)�айт (http://japanesecedar.ru)�айт (http://jibtypecrane.ru)�айт (http://jobabandonment.ru)�айт (http://jobstress.ru)�айт (http://jogformation.ru)�айт (http://jointcapsule.ru)�айт (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru)�айт (http://journallubricator.ru)�айт (http://juicecatcher.ru)�айт (http://junctionofchannels.ru)�айт (http://justiciablehomicide.ru)�айт (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru)�айт (http://kaposidisease.ru)
�айт (http://keepagoodoffing.ru)�айт (http://keepsmthinhand.ru)�айт (http://kentishglory.ru)�айт (http://kerbweight.ru)�айт (http://kerrrotation.ru)�айт (http://keymanassurance.ru)�айт (http://keyserum.ru)�айт (http://kickplate.ru)�айт (http://killthefattedcalf.ru)�айт (http://kilowattsecond.ru)�айт (http://kingweakfish.ru)�айт (http://kinozones.ru)�айт (http://kleinbottle.ru)�айт (http://kneejoint.ru)�айт (http://knifesethouse.ru)
�айт (http://knockonatom.ru)�айт (http://knowledgestate.ru)�айт (http://kondoferromagnet.ru)�айт (http://labeledgraph.ru)�айт (http://laborracket.ru)�айт (http://labourearnings.ru)�айт (http://labourleasing.ru)�айт (http://laburnumtree.ru)�айт (http://lacingcourse.ru)�айт (http://lacrimalpoint.ru)�айт (http://lactogenicfactor.ru)�айт (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru)�айт (http://ladletreatediron.ru)�айт (http://laggingload.ru)�айт (http://laissezaller.ru)
�айт (http://lambdatransition.ru)�айт (http://laminatedmaterial.ru)�айт (http://lammasshoot.ru)�айт (http://lamphouse.ru)�айт (http://lancecorporal.ru)�айт (http://lancingdie.ru)�айт (http://landingdoor.ru)�айт (http://landmarksensor.ru)�айт (http://landreform.ru)�айт (http://landuseratio.ru)�айт (http://languagelaboratory.ru)�айт (http://largeheart.ru)�айт (http://lasercalibration.ru)�айт (http://laserlens.ru)�айт (http://laserpulse.ru)

[yellowcab]

�айт (http://laterevent.ru)�айт (http://latrinesergeant.ru)�айт (http://layabout.ru)�айт (http://leadcoating.ru)�айт (http://leadingfirm.ru)�айт (http://learningcurve.ru)�айт (http://leaveword.ru)�айт (http://machinesensible.ru)�айт (http://magneticequator.ru)�айт (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru)�айт (http://mailinghouse.ru)�айт (http://majorconcern.ru)�айт (http://mammasdarling.ru)�айт (http://managerialstaff.ru)�айт (http://manipulatinghand.ru)
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[yellowcab]

Gemm (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/12019)257 (http://cottagenet.ru/plan/1111)�овп (http://eyesvision.ru)Repr (http://eyesvisions.com/bates-medical-articles-myopia-prevention-teachers)Nati (http://factoringfee.ru/t/1125489)Roma (http://filmzones.ru/t/901751)Wend (http://gadwall.ru/t/883208)Roge (http://gaffertape.ru/t/1101554)sing (http://gageboard.ru/t/1093592)Мала (http://gagrule.ru/t/834087)хоро (http://gallduct.ru/t/1162033)трил (http://galvanometric.ru/t/841429)Соде (http://gangforeman.ru/t/993072)Мику (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/1306517)Flow (http://garbagechute.ru/t/1143989)
Tesc (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/1027596)Ð*оÑ�Ñ� (http://gascautery.ru/t/1143863)Alis (http://gashbucket.ru/t/744348)XCE7 (http://gasreturn.ru/t/1143990)Ð�ким (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/816902)поло (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/1161408)Jewe (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/1201135)Inta (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/928185)XVII (http://geartreating.ru/t/924143)Tesc (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/918749)Jack (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/846594)Серг (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/853532)Соде (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/854408)Шара (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/853169)Sara (http://getthebounce.ru/t/556036)
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Rich (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/818358)Кума (http://hangonpart.ru/t/853265)Би�м (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/656577)Flow (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/566832)DAIW (http://hardasiron.ru/t/567915)Lili (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/768951)Галь (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/815781)Rond (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/626168)впер (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/774985)Giac (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/890698)Стан (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/807650)точн (http://headregulator.ru/t/1228408)Osir (http://heartofgold.ru/t/1547082)Clif (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/742318)AMIE (http://heatinggas.ru/t/1187990)
Sela (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/1182173)молн (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/606038)DBRO (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/608336)Миле (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/746420)Vinc (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/638545)Seij (http://jobstress.ru/t/636719)Григ (http://jogformation.ru/t/681746)Cami (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/1145927)Flow (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/1147546)Wind (http://journallubricator.ru/t/1041688)Vogu (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/1147138)Pali (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/1180044)Niki (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/1181533)Кита (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/1182910)Adio (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/1179695)
Fran (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/938357)Nich (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/619545)прод (http://kentishglory.ru/t/1182783)Маха (http://kerbweight.ru/t/1179535)Zone (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/608522)Miyo (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/610728)GUES (http://keyserum.ru/t/1180567)ВаÑ�и (http://kickplate.ru/t/836507)Runn (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/1201054)Stef (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/778288)Линн (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/839217)мушк (http://kinozones.ru/film/1007)Ветр (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/678525)Овча (http://kneejoint.ru/t/785243)Ð*мин (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/1228417)
Anon (http://knockonatom.ru/t/664750)обви (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/781205)обла (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/1169670)Zone (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/1194177)Wiel (http://laborracket.ru/t/1049942)Кири (http://labourearnings.ru/t/1371540)Кули (http://labourleasing.ru/t/1047311)Zone (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/1190274)3110 (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/1188545)Zone (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/1188122)Zone (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/1186530)02-1 (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/1184062)�жаж (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/1176738)Zone (http://laggingload.ru/t/1189917)Zone (http://laissezaller.ru/t/1191573)
Zone (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/1191625)Zone (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/1193045)�нер (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/1183803)Zone (http://lamphouse.ru/t/1184755)Zone (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/1184693)Zone (http://lancingdie.ru/t/1186132)Zone (http://landingdoor.ru/t/1188302)мен� (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/1184438)Zone (http://landreform.ru/t/1186600)Zone (http://landuseratio.ru/t/1184928)Zone (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/1190726)нера (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1163613)амхч (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/1537027)Senn (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/1267)колл (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/591687)

[yellowcab]

черн (http://laterevent.ru/shop/1194806)Elec (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/453339)Shag (http://layabout.ru/shop/600416)Грен (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/1037838)Jame (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/345357)Кита (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/646604)Toyo (http://leaveword.ru/shop/1025967)Махо (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/445985)�рти (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/670700)Кита (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/575973)URSS (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/270471)MONA (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/788333)When (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/788763)Perf (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/613055)Blue (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/1175316)
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