Long distance hiking advice?

[RandyRhoads]

New plan. Tough Mudder was weak, I want to hike the Pacific Crest Trail. :hang:

Obviously I need to do a lot of training/practice. It's a goal. Maybe not a close one, but one I want to accomplish before I die of AIDS (haha, just kidding...)

What "level" survivalist would be the minimum for this quest? Do most people attempting this sort of thing have years of harcore survival training? Or just hiking a lot using the supply drops?

Any good tips or pointers for training for this? More boots in the field and some long practice hikes? I can't imagine hiking over 2,000 miles. 25km rucks in basic left me hurtin'. Is doing this sort of thing alone extremely stupid?

To be even more specific, anyone know of any nice good trails in California to hike? Ones you can go way out in, have fires, sleep, and such?

Thanks.

[1stimestar]

Here ya go. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Crest_Trail

You really don't have to do HARDCORE training. Hike every day you can, throw in a few long distance backpacking trips to test your gear and see what you like/don't like, need/don't need and ascertain how you did physically.

[randyt]

a journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step

[Rick]

People hike the Appalachian Trail in all kinds of shapes, all ages, all sexes, all everything. There is a saying on the trail. "If you need to lose weight you will. If you need to gain weight you will." Surprising how that works.

[RandyRhoads]

1stimestar I read the wiki, still had a lot of questions.

So mainly it's just having a good plan and using supply drop points? I don't see anything about where people sleep. I guess with so many people doing it there's no issue with making a camp, and having a fire? I'm just trying to picture this trail and how it would work. They say there are towns and post offices along the trail. So I guess it cuts through places that aren't to wildernessy a lot. Seems extremely hard to me to set up a plan to have supplies mailed to myself at the perfect times through a couple month adventure. What if I don't make time one day, where does my stuff sit....

I need to find someone who's done this or something...

[pete lynch]

http://skywalker-pct.com/pacific-crest-trail-book/
If nothing else, it's a good read.

[1stimestar]

Have all your drop shipments prepared and marked. Get some one to be your expediter back home. You can keep in contact with this person and have them mail the next box you have packed as you approach the town you had planned to pick it up in. They can send it General Delivery. Post office will normally keep general delivery items for at least 10 days.

[RandyRhoads]

Thank. What kind of meals should be packed on long journey like that?

[1stimestar]

Depends on how many drop points you are planning and how long you are hiking, total and per day. Here's a site I like, with lots of great ideas.
http://www.wildbackpacker.com/backpacking-food/recipes/

[crashdive123]

This looks like a good planning guide for a through hike of the PCT. Click on the tabs for specifics. http://www.planyourhike.com/

[Rick]

Actually, the post office will hold your supply packages for 30 days. Write on the face of the package, "Please Hold for Pacific Crest Thru-Hiker" and the expected date you intend to arrive to get it. It doesn't have to be exact it just gives the post office an idea. Obviously, your route has to be planned out so you have some idea of when you will arrive at each location.

Word of advice. Purchase two pairs of hiking boots and break both of them in. Leave one pair at home. If your boots break down on you and they can't be fixed you will have another pair that can be sent to you and they will already be broken in.

[hunter63]

How much hiking and camping have you done to date.....the times before, the needle trip?
Start slow, try stuff out, build up knowledge and skills........

You have taken the first step in asking.....most people crawl before they walk, then run.

[RandyRhoads]

How much hiking and camping have you done to date.....the times before, the needle trip?
Start slow, try stuff out, build up knowledge and skills........

You have taken the first step in asking.....most people crawl before they walk, then run.

I remember reading something about it in a book once. :)

I found one i'm going to try first. John Muir Trail is 211 miles and I believe it's part of the PCT.

Thanks for all the replies, lots of good information to go over.

[finallyME]

Check out backpacking forums. They have lots of people who have done the PCT.

[Paracord Monkey]

One million starts with one. That's the best advice i can give. The most I've ever hiked straight is about 15 miles in one day nonstop. Which isn't a lot but for a 13 year old like me it is. Just don't give up :D

[1stimestar]

It's a lot for most of us PM, especially if carry a pack.

[RandyRhoads]

Granted my pack would be a lot less than military ruckin'. A 15-20 miler in full kit often destroyed my feet. I can't imagine picking up day after day after day for weeks/months without a break to heal. That sounds like permanent foot damage.

[RandyRhoads]

WTF. I wanted to hike part of the John Muir trail, but I need to get a permit 168 days in advance. Can you do anything in this damn country anymore without a permit. Can't a dude just take a walk through the forrest to enjoy nature anymore....

That was the easier practice trail. WTF I can never find anywhere to hike and camp....

[thefemalesurvivalist]

I hiked the Pacific Crest Trail and am happy to answer any questions. After completing the entire trail during a 14 month period (did the JMT concurrently, approximately 27 miles of which do not share the same tread way as the PCT)....I did the Appalachian Trail in 2002, a thru hike. Then, the Colorado Trail. So, I'm an ultralighter and buy much of my food in towns ( a hitch hike sometimes) along the way. This way you chose the town, and if you get off schedule, say by a month or so, your box is not sent back.

The right shoes is paramount, along with the best and lightest gear you can afford. You'll carry lots of water in the first 6oo miles, going through the desert on the PCT. Then, when there's lots of water in the Sierras, you'll be carrying lots of food cause its a long ways off trail to town. Back in northern California, you'll need water again, and most folks who see you hitching for a ride won't know what the **** you're doing. If you have a chance, pick up a PCT sew on emblem for your trail cap. It helps.

I do have my journals online. If I'm allowed to post the link to that page, its at a website owned by a past trail partner.

Five months for either PCT or AT is about right. You can start out sorta slow, using the trail for some of the training. I was a cook just before heading to the trail and training was short and sweet.

again, happy to help in any way I can

[1stimestar]

I hiked the Pacific Crest Trail and am happy to answer any questions. After completing the entire trail during a 14 month period (did the JMT concurrently, approximately 27 miles of which do not share the same tread way as the PCT)....I did the Appalachian Trail in 2002, a thru hike. Then, the Colorado Trail. So, I'm an ultralighter and buy much of my food in towns ( a hitch hike sometimes) along the way. This way you chose the town, and if you get off schedule, say by a month or so, your box is not sent back.

The right shoes is paramount, along with the best and lightest gear you can afford. You'll carry lots of water in the first 6oo miles, going through the desert on the PCT. Then, when there's lots of water in the Sierras, you'll be carrying lots of food cause its a long ways off trail to town. Back in northern California, you'll need water again, and most folks who see you hitching for a ride won't know what the **** you're doing. If you have a chance, pick up a PCT sew on emblem for your trail cap. It helps.

I do have my journals online. If I'm allowed to post the link to that page, its at a website owned by a past trail partner.

Five months for either PCT or AT is about right. You can start out sorta slow, using the trail for some of the training. I was a cook just before heading to the trail and training was short and sweet.

again, happy to help in any way I can

Oh there ya go. Just the kind of expert advice you need. Score. Hey, I'd love to see those blog entries.

[RandyRhoads]

Awesome, can't get any better than this!

First off, how hard is it to get a permit for the PCT? Price? How long in advance to get it?


Do you mean you hiked for over a year to complete it?? Were you taking your time enjoying it or something?

As far as shoes, i'm kind of partial to my army combat boots, are these a bad idea? If they are ok, should I wear summer (breathable with vent holes) or winter (insulated and padded comfy)?

I just bought two 1 liter platypus, is that sufficient or do I need to pack more for long waterless stretches?

[Cast-Iron]

I'm not an expert on this but from what I've read from those who have hiked either the AT or the PCT, one set of shoes/boots won't survive the entire trip. If it were me, I'd examine the types of hiking I could expect over the various regions along the trail and make selections based on the best equipment I could acquire for that particular section of the journey. You may go through four, five, or more pairs of shoes if you're able to hike the entire 2650+/- miles of the PCT.

[crashdive123]

I do have my journals online. If I'm allowed to post the link to that page, its at a website owned by a past trail partner.



If it's not your site and you don't have an interest in it other than some of your material was used, I don't think it will be a problem to post a link.

[LDM2323]

Sure you can. As I agree a permit for just about anything should be abhorred by all and is seldom a rule I follow. Because it tramples the constitution and as George Washington once said "the power to tax is the power to destroy". But you can go into any national forest and camp primitively for free. some restrictions apply in some of the recreational areas and the nature preserves within the national forest they are easily avoided. Also off any long distance trail AT PCT CDT or even smaller trails such as the Pinhoti here in Alabama you are allowed to camp primitively anywhere along the trail for free as long as you are not in the reserve or recreational areas. In most cases I have traveled all over the east primitively camping and in many situations had to break some of the rules and was never bothered even when forest rangers would run into my campsite. Best thing to do is stay in national forest when you can because that is public property and there are less restrictions and what restrictions they do have are flexible.

[LDM2323]

The guy below had most of the information you will probably need. Don't pre pack meals and have someone mail them to you. Carry money and go in and out of towns for food. Judge what food you carry based on the amount of miles between towns. Hitch hike from trail to towns when necessary. You should be able to get into town every 7 to 10 days at most. Definitely read a book or get a map disclosing all water holes and towns along the trail. People you run into on the trail will also be of grave help in all situations. There are also drop boxes along the trail were hikers discard unwanted food or items I have actually heard of two guys hiking the entire AT in 3 or 4 months living off just what food they found in those boxes never going into town. Although the AT is way heavier populated than the PCT. Do not worry about survival skills or experience most people who complete these trails do not have a lick of survival skills in their entire body just the drive to finish and have rarely done any hiking in their lifetime. Your endurance will build quicker than you think. When you first start 10 miles a day will be good and when you finish less than 25 miles a day will be seldom. I have done a lot of primitive camping and long distance hikes though never being able to afford the entire AT PCT or CDT I would love to some day but I have done a lot of research on rules regulation gear and most everything that comes along with one of these hikes. So any further questions feel free to email me or catch me on here... Also be mindful of the seasons and weather because in some seasons parts of the trail could close.

[LDM2323]

Carry shoe glue. Most who through hikers (hikers hiking the entire trail in one run) say that a good pair of running shoes or light weight athletic shoes are best but I am a boot man myself and many through hikers do through hike with boots. You can make it a lot further than you think in one pair if they are a good pair you have shoe glue and you are mindful of taking care of them when you are walking. Definitely have money to buy a pair incase they were to go down on the trail maybe carry a light pair of flip flops for stream crossings and to get you back to town if you have a true blow out on the trail. which seldom you would not see coming. It will be hard to carry much more than a gallon or a gallon and a half which may be necessary in some cases but like I mentioned below judge that off the map or book you get disclosing water holes and towns. You will want to carry that map or book with you the entire trip it will help you judge many situations all to often a known water hole dries up in the dry season and is banked on by unsuspecting through hikers the book will mention this. You will never be able to carry much more than a day or two of water therefore try to never be a day or two away from it I have heard stories of the CDT that were horrible but always heard the PCT was fairly decent. Still whatever you choose be very mindful of the watering holes along the trail. Not something you really have to worry about in Appalachia country. If you cannot find water in the woods over here you probably should not be in the woods.

[LDM2323]

In most cases and in most situations you can primitively camp for free. By law you are allowed to sleep on any public property with few restrictions. On a long distance hiking trail there are actually campsites all along the trail for primitive camping and even every ten miles there are little shacks put on the trail maybe not the entire trail but I know the AT has them every ten miles or less the entire trail they are a first come first serve for free basis. On all long distance hiking trails you are allowed to primitively camp for free on the trail with some restrictions like staying out of recreation areas and nature preserves that the trail may cut through and not blocking the actual trail. Trust me finding somewhere to sleep will not be a issue on the trail.

[Rick]

As I agree a permit for just about anything should be abhorred by all and is seldom a rule I follow.

It's really too bad that you don't understand the intent of the permits. We pay our way in this country. Hunters pay for the privilege of hunting through the use of hunting licenses, permits, stamps, lotteries, etc. It helps to fund wildlands, studies, national and state forests and preserves. Permits for hiking and camping serve a similar function by not allowing overuse in pristine or fragile environments or locations where they would otherwise be damaged by overuse. Depending on the location it may also help fund trail construction and repair. Just like trail quotas limit the number of people that can start out on a given trail during peak use times. In short, they allow all of us to enjoy this country's natural resources. Not just those that choose to ignore the rules.

[BENESSE]

+1, Rick!!!

[RandyRhoads]

I agree Rick...

It's not the fee that bugs me its having to wait half a year to maybe get it.

[Rick]

It is unfortunate but that's what happens in the really popular trails. Imagine what it would be like if everyone could show up and go at the same time. It'd look like the Boston Marathon. That wouldn't be much fun either especially when you want to get away from everything and everyone for a while.

[RandyRhoads]

True, but don't they know I'm special, haha...

[Rick]

I told a cop that once. Turns out he had a special place in the squad car, a special place in booking, a special place in jail and a special place in court. He was a real nice fellah once he realized I was special. He gave the VIP treatment. At least that's what he called it.

[LDM2323]

It is really sad you buy into the propaganda and regurgitate everything you here from your ruling class like a parrot. We pay our way in this country? That is why our country is in perpetual debt? It does not pay for trail construction I have volunteered for trail services and worked right over 200 hours of service with AHTA, ATA, and many other hiking groups and everything is voluntary and at the expense of the volunteers. Even most amenities in national forest are donations. All regulation and permits and license and insurance is a way to create revenue to line the pockets of the ruling class. I do not choose to ignore rules for self benefit I just believe in being free and standing for what my founding fathers stood for. I believe Thomas Jefferson said "When injustice becomes law resistance becomes duty" The true destruction of the environment does not come from people like me who hold the up most respect for all living things especially the forest but from the ruling class you are so quick to side with who build cities and bankrupt them and instead of refurbishing them they just mow down a bunch of forest and build another one. The same people who toy with oil wells in the middle of the ocean and blow them open destroying the environment and the same people who experiment with nuclear technology and use nuclear plants like the one in Japan that has destroyed environments on a monumental level. The same people who spill the garbage about people needing to pay for everything and have permits to do anything. Like the carbon taxes Obama is ratifying right now shutting down clean burning coal plants outsourcing it overseas to dirty plants driving up the cost of energy. We are all entitled to natural liberty. You do not have to pay a fee or tax or purchase a permit or license to live. Not in Gods eyes or our founding fathers.
“Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.”
― Thomas Jefferson
I hope you look into this and educate yourself so maybe we have a chance at turning this world around and gaining some of our liberties back. So our ruling class does not fee us into homelessness and poverty and famine because that is exactly where we are headed. As long as you buy into the propaganda it is for the children. It is to keep you safe. It is for the planet it's green. Then the further we permit them to take their agenda.
"The amount of tyranny you will live under is the exact amount you put up with" Thomas Jefferson
If everyone had the attitude you have about this we would be regulated and taxed and permitted and fee'd right into North Korea or what ever country is s*****ier than Mexico.
“I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.”
― Thomas Jefferson

[LDM2323]

It would bug your forefathers. The men who built this country. You should read about them sometime. Was it not you who stated on this very thread your frustrations of having to buy a permit for everything? Well with attitudes like this get ready because it is to only get worse and surely will cost more. Soon you will pay a fee tax and insurance for everything as you have recently seen with the mandatory gun owners insurance, the permit for purchasing ammo, the tax on cow flatulence, the license to paint a room in your own home, bulk food purchases regulation, bulk ammo purchasing regulation, license to hold protest, and much more those were just a few going off memory and some are confined to certain states.
Come on people. I am by far the bad guy here just because I do not want to pay to walk through public property or enjoy the land my forefathers gave to us and yes I respect privacy and private property as much as they did. I also respect the environment as much as they did and abhor those who abuse it. As much as I abhor big government as much as they abhorred big government.
How many of you have worked hundreds of hours of voluntary service for your local national forest and public trails!!!? Digging out trails trimming back brush digging up signs and replacing them or digging holes for new ones cutting massive dead trees that fell over the trail building bunkers repairing walk bridges ECT.???

[LDM2323]

People do show up as they please. You only have to have a permit for a through hike. 98% of people go to a trail head for a day hike or over nighter which do not require permits. The main reason people get permits on a thru hike is for the certification of completion of the entire trail. I have never been to a trail head where they were turning people away because so many were using the trail that day. As a matter of fact where would they? It is not like you go through a booth or gate or road block. I mean have you ever been to a national forest and a trail head and hiked that trail and camped.? You seem to know nothing of trails permits and rules....

[crashdive123]

Glad you got it all figured out LDM2323. Now, how about heading over to the Introduction section and telling us a bit about yourself. Thanks.

[LDM2323]

You question my understanding of permits when if you actually researched thru hike permits on long distance hikes you would find it is issued under the pretense of safety for the hiker. Not protection of the environment or the insurance of not over populating the trail at one time.
"Any society willing to sacrifice freedom for safety deserve neither and will los both" Ben Franklin

[Rick]

"Wilderness permits are only issued to a limited number people for each trailhead in order to provide outstanding opportunities for solitude, as required by the Wilderness Act (http://wilderness.nps.gov/faqnew.cfm). "

http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/wildpermits.htm

"Permits to hike to the top of Half Dome are required seven days per week when the cables are up (as called for in the Half Dome Plan (http://www.nps.gov/yose/parkmgmt/hdp.htm) in order to protect wilderness character, reduce crowding, protect natural and cultural resources, and improve safety)."

http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/hdpermits.htm

"Yosemite National Park has a trailhead quota system limiting the number of people entering a particular trailhead on a given day. This system is designed to reduce impact and to avoid overcrowding. "

http://www.yosemiteconservancy.org/wilderness-permits-details

Yeah, you're right. I probably don't know what I'm talking about. Thanks for clearing that up for me. Now, let's get to the crux of the post about you not following rules. What makes you special?

[RandyRhoads]

Before even reading a word from this guys I saw his location as tyranyville FEMA camp region 4 and predicted almost word for word what was about to happen. A giant speech on how this is his right followed my non stop quoting of the founding fathers....

[Rick]

It does not pay for trail construction I have volunteered for trail services and worked right over 200 hours of service with AHTA, ATA, and many other hiking groups and everything is voluntary and at the expense of the volunteers. Even most amenities in national forest are donations.

Where do you think the money came from to buy the land? I can point out a lot of trails that what you've said is true. I can also show you twice that many that the funds do pay for.



It is really sad you buy into the propaganda and regurgitate everything you here from your ruling class like a parrot.

Hell, son, I AM the ruling class.


Was it not you who stated on this very thread your frustrations of having to buy a permit for everything?

Nope. It was not me. Time to work on those comprehension skills.



Before even reading a word from this guys I saw his location as tyranyville FEMA camp region 4 and predicted almost word for word what was about to happen. A giant speech on how this is his right followed my non stop quoting of the founding fathers....

Ssshhhh. This is too much fun.

[RandyRhoads]

Whoa why'd my quote pop up as WildThang haha..

[crashdive123]

Whoa why'd my quote pop up as WildThang haha..

Rick just likes to keep people on his toes.

[Rick]

What? Looks fine to me......:innocent:

[thefemalesurvivalist]

Awesome, can't get any better than this!

First off, how hard is it to get a permit for the PCT? Price? How long in advance to get it?


Do you mean you hiked for over a year to complete it?? Were you taking your time enjoying it or something?

As far as shoes, i'm kind of partial to my army combat boots, are these a bad idea? If they are ok, should I wear summer (breathable with vent holes) or winter (insulated and padded comfy)?

I just bought two 1 liter platypus, is that sufficient or do I need to pack more for long waterless stretches?

The PCT permit is easy. While you're getting that, have them add a JMT sticker to it, an automatic permit (I think it costs a few bucks) sence you are hiking the PCT.

I hiked the PCT middle section with a guy who had already done the desert the year before. We did Sonora Pass to Crater Lake. The next year he was going to finish the last third of the trail, completing it in Canada. I decided to get the first 1,000 done, then meet him, so we could finish together. So, from July 14 2000, to September 14, 2001, I did the trail, taking the winter off...cause, really, you can't do much of the PCT in winter due to high elevations and snow.

The PCT is 2,678 miles, give or take. If I hike alone, I do a lot of miles cause I hate sitting in camp doing nothing, but if I hike with someone slower, we have coffee, breakfast, etc.
My journals can be read from my home page at www.trailquest.net/BRindex.html

People hiking the PCT wear trail runners mainly because of how hot the desert gets. And, remember they say a pound on the foot is like 5 on the back. So, if your heavy boots weigh 5 pounds, that's like an additional 25 on the back. I've used high top trail runners and prefer them because gaiters make me hot. Others sware by them. You'll soon learn what you like and hate. The AT, you'll see way more newbies, which means heavier, cheaper gear. A lot of hikers passing through Damascus, Virgina, about 425 miles from the southern terminus, will swap out gear, dropping serious money at the outfitters there. I would definitely plan on using hiking poles, many ended up buying them on trail after their knees were killing them. Makes a good weapon too if some day hiker's dog gets feisty.

Your waterless stretches are in Pennyslvania (not long) or New York on the AT. I used soda bottles, nearly indestructible, and picked up an additional one when going through dry places.

NOW, on the PCT, your first 600 are dry. Plan on 5-6 quart capacity. Drop half that when going through the Sierras (again soda bottles can help off set the gear costs) then pick up capacity in the form of extra soda bottles for northern California.

posting this now from the library before I lose it

[thefemalesurvivalist]

While hiking through Vermont, there are fees to stay at maintained shelters, as well as in the Whites. These fees pay for the caretakers who also compost the pit toilets.

Then, on the PCT there are some fees passing through Lassen State Park. You can pay, or hike on farther and stealth camp. One very good reason to focus on woodland colors is the ability to stealth camp when needed...like you're almost to town and all the signs say no camping along said roadway, etc. If you're on the AT and camp close to a road or civilization, stealth camping will keep you from being raided by partiers...doesn't happen often.

As a soloist, its good to be able to hike far if you need to ditch someone, or camp off trail and let someone pass by. Not everyone is a good hiking partner.

The PCT is pretty wide open. You will want a compass there, especially if there's a reroute due to fire. The AT, if it starts looking too sketchy, back trail, cause it's blazed pretty frequently. If you haven't noticed a blaze in half a mile, you may have taken a side trail down to some lake. Blue blazes are not the official AT, but lead to water and shelters or town.

The CDT I'm finding requires more navigation skills if you're going cross country and not abiding by roads, lots of water capacity and willingness to walk into towns.

My theroies on food: trail food is to get you there. Mountain houses and other fancy prepackaged meals are bulky, expensive, spicey, not satisfying. I don't cook in plastic bags because of the garbage and odors in bear country. Bears have been know to frequent AT shelters. You'll hang your food from a rafter on the AT. On the PCT you'll probably sleep with your food except on the JMT or in National Parks that require hanging or use of bear boxes ( which are on site.)

I eat a lot of oatmeal, ramen, nuts, grits, chips, snickers, simple foods I know my body can digest. When ever you're in town, you eat anything, everything, whatever you crave. Leave full, carry out some pizza if you want, then go lean. There's a huge difference between being satisfied and full (stuffed). Personally, I found I hike better if lean than eating too heavy.

But, that's my two cents and you'll find some hike to camp, others camp to hike....Its about the journey for me. The camping (eating) is secondary.
The saying is Hike Your Own Hike....meaning, there's no right or wrong. It belongs to you. You can do it :lookatme:

[thefemalesurvivalist]

The AT took five months hiking,
the PCT took 7 months on trail
the Colorado was 40 days

the JMT was just an additional 2 days added onto the PCT journey...one day up to Whitney, then one day from Tuolome to the Valley (Yosemite).

The Foothills or Bartram trail in the southeast are fun training hikes for the AT. You can print out a free Bartram Trail guide from my home page at trailquest.

ok,
I'll answer anything else, if you wish.

[RandyRhoads]

Thank you! Lots of good stuff! But how was the JMT only two days extra it's 211 miles??

[LDM2323]

[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#333333]
Nope. It was not me. Time to work on those comprehension skills.


That was a reply to Randy genius...

[LDM2323]

[/COLOR][COLOR=#333333]

Hell, son, I AM the ruling class.



You have the self centered attitude of one not sure about the education. Hell if you are then you are one of the spoiled brats that inherited the title. Doubt you have ever earned anything. No wonder you don't mind throwing money away.

[LDM2323]

[QUOTE=Rick;407742][COLOR=#333333]

Where do you think the money came from to buy the land? I can point out a lot of trails that what you've said is true. I can also show you twice that many that the funds do pay for.


Well I doubt it came from people using that land paying the buyers before they owned it and offered permits.

[crashdive123]

Goodbye LDM 2323. It is clear that you already know everything you need to know. You can now go impart your expertise on people elsewhere.

[RandyRhoads]

Bahahaha ha. Thanks crash...

[1stimestar]

Buh bye....

[pete lynch]

I knew that guy wasn't staying long. Used way too many words...

[Rick]

Dang it! Just when I learned I'm a self centered genius!! I really liked this guy. He was a great judge of character. He figured out I'm a genius in only a few posts.

[thefemalesurvivalist]

Thank you! Lots of good stuff! But how was the JMT only two days extra it's 211 miles??

The JMT uses the same tread way as the PCT for most of its traverse of the wilderness. If someone is thru hiking or section hiking the PCT, they can also complete the JMT by hiking up to Crabtree Meadows, camping there, stashing all things not needed for a day hike, then hike 7.5 miles up to Whitney and return to Crabtree Meadows, camp that night and resume the joint trails: PCT & JMT. That little day, side trip, gets the southern terminus of the JMT accomplished. People who are only hiking the JMT, not the PCT, start at the Whitney Portal Trail, hike to the summit, and continue their trail.

Then, they run concurrently until you get to Tuolome Meadows, a great place in Yosemite just 2 tenths off trail. Camp there, put everything in a bear box or, like us, ask the Post mistress to hold it for you. Make the 21 miles into the Valley, to the northern terminus, as another day hike. This does require lots of steady hiking. Your first five miles are uphill, then all the way down, marvelously to the valley. We resupplied there, got a ride back to Tulome Meadows and camped. When the post office opened, we reclaimed the rest of our stuff and resumed the PCT. JMT was completed in Yosemite Valley. So, by doing the north and southern terminus as day hike side trails off the PCT, we only needed to add two extra days of hiking to our PCT journey.

Now, while we felt fine with leaving extra gear in bear boxes in Crab Tree Meadows, I wouldn't do that in a car accessible camp ground. We knew no one would steal anything out of the first location cause no one carries any extra stuff. More backpackers leave stuff than take stuff, on purpose, just to lighten the load.

On the other hand, a car camp /backpacker campground accessible by car, can have thieves because weight isn't a problem. However, sometimes a six pack will be abandoned and shared too. Tourists have gifted long distance backpackers with goodies just out of pure kindness.

[Rick]

Randy - I happened upon this article that you might find useful if you decide to do the PCT.

http://blackwoodspress.com/blog/3852/desert-hiking-tips/

[RandyRhoads]

Thanks, good information for the desert portion.

[thefemalesurvivalist]

While hiking the desert, several friends had in line filters. Eventually they clogged up with all the sand and were so slow the guys just punched the filter out so the water could free flow. For that reason, I always recommend chemical treatment as a way to purify water, ie, chlorine, or iodine, some actually like the ultraviolet ray pen, or the aqua mira (hard to find in trail towns, so you have to mail it to yourself, etc).

I used two drops of chlorine per quart of water. Strain first through a bandana if necessary BEFORE applying the chemical. More chlorine is needed for water with more organic material in it.

You can solar cook in the desert. Just put some ramen in an empty plastic peanut butter jar, fill with water, screw on the lid, set in the sun. Hot pasta in an hour.

Its good to have one wide mouthed bottle in the desert and a flexible plastic cup in case you have to get water out of a shallow pool. I used an empty 8 ounce margarine container for my drinking cup: lightweight, free.

[RandyRhoads]

I have a sawyer squeeze and a drinking tube to cover tht.

[yellowcab]

Saat (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/12880)158.7 (http://cottagenet.ru/plan/759)раÑ�Ñ� (http://eyesvision.ru/lectures/192)CHAP (http://eyesvisions.com/use-your-own-eyes-chapter-10)Shir (http://factoringfee.ru/t/262037)Guru (http://filmzones.ru/t/129222)Ñ�апо (http://gadwall.ru/t/129408)наро (http://gaffertape.ru/t/298298)Желе (http://gageboard.ru/t/279527)Zodi (http://gagrule.ru/t/15928)Ð*оÑ�Ñ� (http://gallduct.ru/t/166479)Tesc (http://galvanometric.ru/t/68063)Deko (http://gangforeman.ru/t/106102)Ð*оÑ�Ñ� (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/136428)Ð�нда (http://garbagechute.ru/t/295225)
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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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инду (http://readingmagnifier.ru/shop/515994)�ПЧе (http://rearchain.ru/shop/878710)кино (http://recessioncone.ru/shop/878704)Your (http://recordedassignment.ru/shop/1034538)Robe (http://rectifiersubstation.ru/shop/1057473)Форм (http://redemptionvalue.ru/shop/1064636)Толк (http://reducingflange.ru/shop/1687675)ри�у (http://referenceantigen.ru/shop/1694765)Beac (http://regeneratedprotein.ru/shop/1770704)Бара (http://reinvestmentplan.ru/shop/1776033)Креч (http://safedrilling.ru/shop/1821545)Швай (http://sagprofile.ru/shop/1062882)прин (http://salestypelease.ru/shop/1854850)Robe (http://samplinginterval.ru/shop/1880650)нача (http://satellitehydrology.ru/shop/1915437)
Лени (http://scarcecommodity.ru/shop/1495425)Голь (http://scrapermat.ru/shop/1941109)Mill (http://screwingunit.ru/shop/1555918)аре� (http://seawaterpump.ru/shop/1628559)Toma (http://secondaryblock.ru/shop/1457258)Иван (http://secularclergy.ru/shop/1494142)Берк (http://seismicefficiency.ru/shop/377177)Соко (http://selectivediffuser.ru/shop/403697)кла� (http://semiasphalticflux.ru/shop/407089)учащ (http://semifinishmachining.ru/shop/1693084)KOSS (http://spicetrade.ru/spice_zakaz/1192)KOSS (http://spysale.ru/spy_zakaz/1192)KOSS (http://stungun.ru/stun_zakaz/1192)Clas (http://tacticaldiameter.ru/shop/485531)Лени (http://tailstockcenter.ru/shop/496580)
24а� (http://tamecurve.ru/shop/500835)Егуп (http://tapecorrection.ru/shop/506082)16-2 (http://tappingchuck.ru/shop/490209)Гудк (http://taskreasoning.ru/shop/502054)Шари (http://technicalgrade.ru/shop/1849971)Коро (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru/shop/1900762)Шиба (http://telescopicdamper.ru/shop/1929547)Щерб (http://temperateclimate.ru/shop/796179)Слон (http://temperedmeasure.ru/shop/906497)Kanw (http://tenementbuilding.ru/shop/983327)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)Java (http://ultramaficrock.ru/shop/983759)Imag (http://ultraviolettesting.ru/shop/485961)

[yellowcab]

geartreating.ru (http://geartreating.ru)hadronicannihilation.ru (http://hadronicannihilation.ru)getintoaflap.ru (http://getintoaflap.ru)gashbucket.ru (http://gashbucket.ru)scarcecommodity.ru (http://scarcecommodity.ru)kerrrotation.ru (http://kerrrotation.ru)hailsquall.ru (http://hailsquall.ru)heavydutymetalcutting.ru (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru)hazardousatmosphere.ru (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru)mammasdarling.ru (http://mammasdarling.ru)heatageingresistance.ru (http://heatageingresistance.ru)laborracket.ru (http://laborracket.ru)kaposidisease.ru (http://kaposidisease.ru)landuseratio.ru (http://landuseratio.ru)offlinesystem.ru (http://offlinesystem.ru)
lacingcourse.ru (http://lacingcourse.ru)semiasphalticflux.ru (http://semiasphalticflux.ru)packedspheres.ru (http://packedspheres.ru)neatplaster.ru (http://neatplaster.ru)gaussianfilter.ru (http://gaussianfilter.ru)secularclergy.ru (http://secularclergy.ru)hardasiron.ru (http://hardasiron.ru)kleinbottle.ru (http://kleinbottle.ru)cottagenet.ru (http://cottagenet.ru)laminatedmaterial.ru (http://laminatedmaterial.ru)selectivediffuser.ru (http://selectivediffuser.ru)papercoating.ru (http://papercoating.ru)objectmodule.ru (http://objectmodule.ru)jobstress.ru (http://jobstress.ru)getthebounce.ru (http://getthebounce.ru)
gardeningleave.ru (http://gardeningleave.ru)olibanumresinoid.ru (http://olibanumresinoid.ru)temperedmeasure.ru (http://temperedmeasure.ru)readingmagnifier.ru (http://readingmagnifier.ru)quasimoney.ru (http://quasimoney.ru)reachthroughregion.ru (http://reachthroughregion.ru)haphazardwinding.ru (http://haphazardwinding.ru)hangonpart.ru (http://hangonpart.ru)eyesvision.ru (http://eyesvision.ru)naturalfunctor.ru (http://naturalfunctor.ru)landmarksensor.ru (http://landmarksensor.ru)knifesethouse.ru (http://knifesethouse.ru)heartofgold.ru (http://heartofgold.ru)satellitehydrology.ru (http://satellitehydrology.ru)gasreturn.ru (http://gasreturn.ru)
radialchaser.ru (http://radialchaser.ru)quadrupleworm.ru (http://quadrupleworm.ru)lactogenicfactor.ru (http://lactogenicfactor.ru)haltstate.ru (http://haltstate.ru)rabbetledge.ru (http://rabbetledge.ru)latrinesergeant.ru (http://latrinesergeant.ru)juicecatcher.ru (http://juicecatcher.ru)lacrimalpoint.ru (http://lacrimalpoint.ru)jogformation.ru (http://jogformation.ru)magneticequator.ru (http://magneticequator.ru)haemagglutinin.ru (http://haemagglutinin.ru)sagprofile.ru (http://sagprofile.ru)hatchholddown.ru (http://hatchholddown.ru)samplinginterval.ru (http://samplinginterval.ru)galvanometric.ru (http://galvanometric.ru)
seawaterpump.ru (http://seawaterpump.ru)laserpulse.ru (http://laserpulse.ru)spysale.ru (http://spysale.ru)rattlesnakemaster.ru (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru)labourleasing.ru (http://labourleasing.ru)safedrilling.ru (http://safedrilling.ru)screwingunit.ru (http://screwingunit.ru)gaffertape.ru (http://gaffertape.ru)oceanmining.ru (http://oceanmining.ru)nationalcensus.ru (http://nationalcensus.ru)keyserum.ru (http://keyserum.ru)laterevent.ru (http://laterevent.ru)journallubricator.ru (http://journallubricator.ru)gageboard.ru (http://gageboard.ru)haveafinetime.ru (http://haveafinetime.ru)
tapecorrection.ru (http://tapecorrection.ru)railwaybridge.ru (http://railwaybridge.ru)secondaryblock.ru (http://secondaryblock.ru)layabout.ru (http://layabout.ru)landreform.ru (http://landreform.ru)taskreasoning.ru (http://taskreasoning.ru)nameresolution.ru (http://nameresolution.ru)radiationestimator.ru (http://radiationestimator.ru)knowledgestate.ru (http://knowledgestate.ru)justiciablehomicide.ru (http://justiciablehomicide.ru)halforderfringe.ru (http://halforderfringe.ru)tappingchuck.ru (http://tappingchuck.ru)gangforeman.ru (http://gangforeman.ru)manualchoke.ru (http://manualchoke.ru)knockonatom.ru (http://knockonatom.ru)
gagrule.ru (http://gagrule.ru)ladletreatediron.ru (http://ladletreatediron.ru)gatedsweep.ru (http://gatedsweep.ru)geophysicalprobe.ru (http://geophysicalprobe.ru)languagelaboratory.ru (http://languagelaboratory.ru)keymanassurance.ru (http://keymanassurance.ru)qualitybooster.ru (http://qualitybooster.ru)necroticcaries.ru (http://necroticcaries.ru)rearchain.ru (http://rearchain.ru)largeheart.ru (http://largeheart.ru)handcoding.ru (http://handcoding.ru)hardenedconcrete.ru (http://hardenedconcrete.ru)gaugemodel.ru (http://gaugemodel.ru)rapidgrowth.ru (http://rapidgrowth.ru)lammasshoot.ru (http://lammasshoot.ru)
kentishglory.ru (http://kentishglory.ru)gallduct.ru (http://gallduct.ru)medinfobooks.ru (http://medinfobooks.ru)harmonicinteraction.ru (http://harmonicinteraction.ru)majorconcern.ru (http://majorconcern.ru)handradar.ru (http://handradar.ru)hardalloyteeth.ru (http://hardalloyteeth.ru)jibtypecrane.ru (http://jibtypecrane.ru)laggingload.ru (http://laggingload.ru)offsetholder.ru (http://offsetholder.ru)kneejoint.ru (http://kneejoint.ru)scrapermat.ru (http://scrapermat.ru)habituate.ru (http://habituate.ru)jointsealingmaterial.ru (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru)octupolephonon.ru (http://octupolephonon.ru)

[yellowcab]

negativefibration.ru (http://negativefibration.ru)keepsmthinhand.ru (http://keepsmthinhand.ru)obstructivepatent.ru (http://obstructivepatent.ru)factoringfee.ru (http://factoringfee.ru)learningcurve.ru (http://learningcurve.ru)salestypelease.ru (http://salestypelease.ru)observationballoon.ru (http://observationballoon.ru)laissezaller.ru (http://laissezaller.ru)referenceantigen.ru (http://referenceantigen.ru)telescopicdamper.ru (http://telescopicdamper.ru)labeledgraph.ru (http://labeledgraph.ru)geriatricnurse.ru (http://geriatricnurse.ru)killthefattedcalf.ru (http://killthefattedcalf.ru)rectifiersubstation.ru (http://rectifiersubstation.ru)leadingfirm.ru (http://leadingfirm.ru)
filmzones.ru (http://filmzones.ru)naphtheneseries.ru (http://naphtheneseries.ru)gangwayplatform.ru (http://gangwayplatform.ru)temperateclimate.ru (http://temperateclimate.ru)gascautery.ru (http://gascautery.ru)randomcoloration.ru (http://randomcoloration.ru)leadcoating.ru (http://leadcoating.ru)managerialstaff.ru (http://managerialstaff.ru)lambdatransition.ru (http://lambdatransition.ru)halfsiblings.ru (http://halfsiblings.ru)navelseed.ru (http://navelseed.ru)narrowmouthed.ru (http://narrowmouthed.ru)audiobookkeeper.ru (http://audiobookkeeper.ru)machinesensible.ru (http://machinesensible.ru)neighbouringrights.ru (http://neighbouringrights.ru)
tenementbuilding.ru (http://tenementbuilding.ru)quodrecuperet.ru (http://quodrecuperet.ru)recordedassignment.ru (http://recordedassignment.ru)leaveword.ru (http://leaveword.ru)partialmajorant.ru (http://partialmajorant.ru)reinvestmentplan.ru (http://reinvestmentplan.ru)recessioncone.ru (http://recessioncone.ru)parasolmonoplane.ru (http://parasolmonoplane.ru)laburnumtree.ru (http://laburnumtree.ru)telangiectaticlipoma.ru (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)redemptionvalue.ru (http://redemptionvalue.ru)paraconvexgroup.ru (http://paraconvexgroup.ru)habeascorpus.ru (http://habeascorpus.ru)heatinggas.ru (http://heatinggas.ru)magnetotelluricfield.ru (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru)
generalprovisions.ru (http://generalprovisions.ru)parkingbrake.ru (http://parkingbrake.ru)juxtapositiontwin.ru (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru)hartlaubgoose.ru (http://hartlaubgoose.ru)gadwall.ru (http://gadwall.ru)labourearnings.ru (http://labourearnings.ru)handportedhead.ru (http://handportedhead.ru)hackedbolt.ru (http://hackedbolt.ru)lamphouse.ru (http://lamphouse.ru)stungun.ru (http://stungun.ru)quenchedspark.ru (http://quenchedspark.ru)japanesecedar.ru (http://japanesecedar.ru)hairysphere.ru (http://hairysphere.ru)laserlens.ru (http://laserlens.ru)kilowattsecond.ru (http://kilowattsecond.ru)
technicalgrade.ru (http://technicalgrade.ru)mp3lists.ru (http://mp3lists.ru)tacticaldiameter.ru (http://tacticaldiameter.ru)jacketedwall.ru (http://jacketedwall.ru)ultraviolettesting.ru (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)junctionofchannels.ru (http://junctionofchannels.ru)seismicefficiency.ru (http://seismicefficiency.ru)kickplate.ru (http://kickplate.ru)kinozones.ru (http://kinozones.ru)lacunarycoefficient.ru (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru)palatinebones.ru (http://palatinebones.ru)keepagoodoffing.ru (http://keepagoodoffing.ru)lasercalibration.ru (http://lasercalibration.ru)lancecorporal.ru (http://lancecorporal.ru)jobabandonment.ru (http://jobabandonment.ru)
handsfreetelephone.ru (http://handsfreetelephone.ru)gearpitchdiameter.ru (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru)tailstockcenter.ru (http://tailstockcenter.ru)garbagechute.ru (http://garbagechute.ru)onesticket.ru (http://onesticket.ru)manipulatinghand.ru (http://manipulatinghand.ru)mailinghouse.ru (http://mailinghouse.ru)hackworker.ru (http://hackworker.ru)jointcapsule.ru (http://jointcapsule.ru)palmberry.ru (http://palmberry.ru)spicetrade.ru (http://spicetrade.ru)kingweakfish.ru (http://kingweakfish.ru)regeneratedprotein.ru (http://regeneratedprotein.ru)ultramaficrock.ru (http://ultramaficrock.ru)semifinishmachining.ru (http://semifinishmachining.ru)
headregulator.ru (http://headregulator.ru)landingdoor.ru (http://landingdoor.ru)pagingterminal.ru (http://pagingterminal.ru)hallofresidence.ru (http://hallofresidence.ru)partfamily.ru (http://partfamily.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)kondoferromagnet.ru (http://kondoferromagnet.ru)lancingdie.ru (http://lancingdie.ru)reducingflange.ru (http://reducingflange.ru)tamecurve.ru (http://tamecurve.ru)generalizedanalysis.ru (http://generalizedanalysis.ru)kerbweight.ru (http://kerbweight.ru)eyesvisions.com (http://eyesvisions.com)