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Yves
07-19-2013, 09:26 PM
Hi, I'm currently working on a project of mine. I'm using P60 grit sand paper for sand paper (on a palm sander*). However, it's not going through the wood fast enough. I was thinking of using thicker grit, P30 or less (would prefer less). However, in Lowes + Home Depot, that was not for sale. Also, I'm having a hard time finding it on Amazon.com.

I found this listing where I can get some very gritty paper:
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Dpm-waterproof-sandpaper-sand-paper-5-bag-p12/619946_901259458.html

But I'm don't know the site's operator or the vendor. Would anyone know of a reputable place where I can get below P30 grit sand paper for a palm sander?

* - http://www.skilshop.com/factory-reconditioned-skil-7292-01-rt-120v-1-4-sheet-palm-sander/sklr7292-01-rt,default,pd.html?ref=nextag&zmam=31282435&zmas=47&zmac=157&zmap=7292-01-RT

crashdive123
07-19-2013, 09:40 PM
IMO - and I'm not a wood worker - when hand sanding you will see very little difference between 30 grit and 60 grit. It may be more of a function of your sanding technique.

welderguy
07-19-2013, 09:41 PM
here is what lowes has 36, and 40 grit http://www.lowes.com/Search=sand+paper?storeId=10151&langId=-1&catalogId=10051&N=0&newSearch=true&Ntt=sand+paper#!&N%5B%5D=0&N%5B%5D=1z118y4&N%5B%5D=1z11976&N%5B%5D=1z119ge

Yves
07-19-2013, 09:56 PM
IMO - and I'm not a wood worker - when hand sanding you will see very little difference between 30 grit and 60 grit. It may be more of a function of your sanding technique.

*shrug* It's possible, but with 60 it's taking forever.

If you have any suggestions that can improve my technique, feel free to share, I'm the first one here who wants this to go faster :) .

Yves
07-19-2013, 09:57 PM
here is what lowes has 36, and 40 grit http://www.lowes.com/Search=sand+paper?storeId=10151&langId=-1&catalogId=10051&N=0&newSearch=true&Ntt=sand+paper#!&N%5B%5D=0&N%5B%5D=1z118y4&N%5B%5D=1z11976&N%5B%5D=1z119ge

Gotcha. They didn't have that in the store. I'd still want to go lower, just in case (I have higher ratings and can use them as needed).

crashdive123
07-19-2013, 10:44 PM
*shrug* It's possible, but with 60 it's taking forever.

If you have any suggestions that can improve my technique, feel free to share, I'm the first one here who wants this to go faster :) .

I used the word "may" since I have no idea what your project is, what type of wood you are sanding, and how you are doing it.

gryffynklm
07-19-2013, 10:55 PM
If you explain your project perhaps show a photo it may help us understand what you are doing. Abetter understand might help us make recommendations.

pete lynch
07-20-2013, 05:50 AM
How dry is the wood you're working with?

intothenew
07-20-2013, 06:28 AM
http://intothenew.smugmug.com/photos/i-m45T2pW/0/XL/i-m45T2pW-XL.jpg

Rick
07-20-2013, 08:06 AM
As Crash said, you aren't going to see a lot of difference between 30 and 60 grit. If you need to remove that much wood on a flat surface then I suggest a plane or a planer. Hand planes are rather inexpensive. Of course you can purchase electric planes and planers as well. Sandpaper should be a near end process once you've worked the wood to the correct dimensions.

Yves
07-20-2013, 09:25 AM
If you explain your project perhaps show a photo it may help us understand what you are doing. Abetter understand might help us make recommendations.

Sure. I had this young tree that was felled by a strong storm we had in an area. I cut it up across in order to make coasters from it (so I can put my coffee on it). I don't know the type of the tree, but I live in Rhode Island (if that helps to exclude certain species based on geography) and I'm quite certain that this is not a harder tree like Oak (cutting it was very easy with my hand saw). The problem that I have is that when I made the cuts, you could see the scratches in the wood, which in my opinion are unsightly and I should just see the circles of the tree.

What I'd like to do is to just remove a thin layer of the wood just to get rid of these slight imperfections and then make it very smooth with some sandpaper.

Yves
07-20-2013, 09:26 AM
How dry is the wood you're working with?

It's very dry. Since I've cut up the trunk, it hasn't been green or moist for quite some time.

Cast-Iron
07-20-2013, 09:26 AM
I'll second Rick's comments. A palm sander is usually used as a part of the finishing process for most woodworking projects (I own several for different applications and profiles). If you need to remove material uniformly, than a surface planer might be a better choice. If you're attempting to "shape" something, a wood rasp, gouge, chisel, hand planer or even a belt sander might be a better choice (don't rush it because belt sanders can remove material much faster than their palm sanding counterpart. With what little information you have provided, I can't offer much advice beyond these suggestions. Good luck with it!

Yves
07-20-2013, 09:27 AM
As Crash said, you aren't going to see a lot of difference between 30 and 60 grit. If you need to remove that much wood on a flat surface then I suggest a plane or a planer. Hand planes are rather inexpensive. Of course you can purchase electric planes and planers as well. Sandpaper should be a near end process once you've worked the wood to the correct dimensions.

I don't know. These coasters are never more than 4.5 inches across, so the size would make doing this quite difficult.

Yves
07-20-2013, 09:28 AM
http://intothenew.smugmug.com/photos/i-m45T2pW/0/XL/i-m45T2pW-XL.jpg

:)

I would if I could find a sheet of it with the same roughness :) . Making everything even after going through it with a file would not be easy.

Cast-Iron
07-20-2013, 09:31 AM
Just saw your description. The work is probably too small for a surface planer. I would try a light belt sanding to remove saw marks and then move to a random orbital sander with progressively finer grit until you get the definition you're after. Again, good luck!

Yves
07-20-2013, 09:32 AM
Just saw your description. The work is probably too small for a surface planer. I would try a light belt sanding to remove saw marks and then move to a random orbital sander till you get the definition you're after. Again, good luck!

Thanks. I don't have a belt sander. I'll figure something out :) .

Rick
07-20-2013, 10:26 AM
How are you retaining the coaster when you sand them? How the coasters are held down will determine how much pressure you can apply to the sander.

Make a jig to hold the coasters. Cut a piece of wood slightly thinner than the coasters with a circle just large enough for the coasters to fit then clamp the jig. This should give you some additional leverage on the hand sander.

Yves
07-20-2013, 10:32 AM
How are you retaining the coaster when you sand them? How the coasters are held down will determine how much pressure you can apply to the sander.

Make a jig to hold the coasters. Cut a piece of wood slightly thinner than the coasters with a circle just large enough for the coasters to fit then clamp the jig. This should give you some additional leverage on the hand sander.

Hold on, let me make a few pics.

Yves
07-20-2013, 10:38 AM
This is the setup that I made (very roughly).

In the second pic, you can see the coaster and the scratches across it that I don't like.

Camp10
07-20-2013, 11:02 AM
Your dealing with end grain... M
uch tougher to get the scratches
out. I think you may need to use finer paper to get the results you are after. End grain is rough by nature, it is also prone to checking and splitting. Sand them as smooth as you can, be sure they are dry and that their moisture content is close to the environment they will be used in (keep them in the house for a while) then seal them with tung oil and sand lightly with 400-600 grit paper between coats.

Camp10
07-20-2013, 11:07 AM
Ok, after looking at the pics better, I'd say try hand sanding opposite the scratches with 60 grit before switching to finer paper.

Yves
07-20-2013, 11:12 AM
Ok, after looking at the pics better, I'd say try hand sanding opposite the scratches with 60 grit before switching to finer paper.

I did that for a while with a palm sander and P60 grit sand paper, with painfully slow progress :) .

pete lynch
07-20-2013, 11:57 AM
If you know of a millwright near you, it would cost little to have him run the disks through a bench planer. That would set them up for fine sanding.

Yves
07-20-2013, 01:04 PM
If you know of a millwright near you, it would cost little to have him run the disks through a bench planer. That would set them up for fine sanding.

I'll keep that in mind. At the moment I bought P40 sand paper, I figured it would be worth it for $5.33 to just try :) .

A belt-sander would be best, but given my lack of an employment situation, I'll have to put that on my list of stuff to buy :) .

hunter63
07-20-2013, 01:46 PM
Is it possible that you are adding scratch's by using rough sandpaper?
Sanding is a long process, made worst by doing an end grain section.

Patience is a virtue, just think of how much easier sandpaper is than say a flat rock.

Yves
07-20-2013, 02:38 PM
Is it possible that you are adding scratch's by using rough sandpaper?
Sanding is a long process, made worst by doing an end grain section.

Patience is a virtue, just think of how much easier sandpaper is than say a flat rock.

I've considered that, but this is a palm sander that rotates on the spot, it shouldn't make long diagonal scratches. If there are very small scratches from the sand paper, I can't see them and I'm ok with that.

randyt
07-20-2013, 03:19 PM
If you have any broken window pane, use a chunk of that for a scraper. Secure the disc somehow and scrape it smooth with the glass. It will go quick.

Yves
07-20-2013, 09:24 PM
If you have any broken window pane, use a chunk of that for a scraper. Secure the disc somehow and scrape it smooth with the glass. It will go quick.

It occurred to me a little earlier, with the help of someone I met online, that I can rent a belt sander from Home Depot and the whole process would go infinitely faster than if I was using a palm sander.

Next week I'll give that a try rather than slave away with my palm sander (which works great for finishing, but not so much if I want a millimeter of wood removed).

[edit]

I know someone suggested this earlier, but given the time that this will take, I'll take my little setup to them and see if it can do the job at all, just as a trial. If not, I'll just stick to my palm sander... even if it takes so long to do the job.

Rick
07-21-2013, 09:05 AM
Woodworking, like creating something from other mediums, is an abject lesson in patience. And very often you will find that the item you are working on is destined to become something other than what you had envisioned. Be very careful when belt sanding the end grain because the side the belt is running toward will often split out from the pressure the belt is applying. Especially using a rough grit sandpaper.

randyt
07-21-2013, 10:47 AM
that is so right Rick, I started cutting firewood one october and ended up with a log cabin rather than firewood.

LowKey
07-21-2013, 12:01 PM
A piece of sheared steel works a little better than glass. Less likely to break in you hand too. Not sure I'd use one for end grain.
An orbital sander will take a lot of time. And you'll get a lot of loading in the sandpaper. You can brush it out with a sturdy nylon brush as long as the wood isn't pine of some sort (anything with pitch in it is going to lacquer up your sandpaper.)

A belt sander would need to be used carefully, probably with a finer grit than you'd expect.

hunter63
07-21-2013, 12:12 PM
Belt sanders will sand your hand real fast as well......

I have in the past, put my belt sander in the vice, up-side down, giving me a flat surface then just held the piece in my hand, motor locked on........and yeah it worked for a couple of pieces...the grabbed and threw the piece, catching my palm and thumb.......when you said in the OP ..."Palm sander" this was my vision.

Road rash for sure...good thing it happen fast, would have hurt a lot more....slow.

Rick
07-21-2013, 04:49 PM
You...uh....you seem to be far too well acquainted with your first responders. Perhaps Mrs. Hunter should be doing the maintenance. Just for your safety. You could always supervise of course.

Yves
07-21-2013, 05:19 PM
Belt sanders will sand your hand real fast as well......

I have in the past, put my belt sander in the vice, up-side down, giving me a flat surface then just held the piece in my hand, motor locked on........and yeah it worked for a couple of pieces...the grabbed and threw the piece, catching my palm and thumb.......when you said in the OP ..."Palm sander" this was my vision.

Road rash for sure...good thing it happen fast, would have hurt a lot more....slow.

I've considered and vetoed that idea. What I'd like to do is to put the coaster in my little setup and then press down lightly with a belt sander for a second or two and see how it goes. Truthfully, I don't know what will happen. The edges on my little holder are glued well with carpenter glue, so I'm not concerned with them breaking free.

Yves
07-21-2013, 05:43 PM
A piece of sheared steel works a little better than glass. Less likely to break in you hand too. Not sure I'd use one for end grain.
An orbital sander will take a lot of time. And you'll get a lot of loading in the sandpaper. You can brush it out with a sturdy nylon brush as long as the wood isn't pine of some sort (anything with pitch in it is going to lacquer up your sandpaper.)

A belt sander would need to be used carefully, probably with a finer grit than you'd expect.

I would be surprised if I didn't ruin one or two of the coasters by mistake, but I'll take that option.

hunter63
07-21-2013, 05:59 PM
You...uh....you seem to be far too well acquainted with your first responders. Perhaps Mrs. Hunter should be doing the maintenance. Just for your safety. You could always supervise of course.

Well, when I give advice many times it's........"Well THAT did NOT work out too well.....so don't do it that way".......
Show me some one that doesn't make mistakes, I'll show you some one that hasn't done much.....LOL

Yves....be aware of flying disc's.....and it happens quick.

randyt
07-21-2013, 06:22 PM
I've fastened a sheet of course sandpaper to a work bench and rubbed the chunk of wood needing smoothing across it. I've never been real fond of palm sanders.

JPGreco
07-21-2013, 06:32 PM
The first thing I would say is that the problem is you are working green wood, which will not take sanding like dryer wood.

Second, based on your description you should NOT be using such a low grit sand paper. It takes some time, but you can smooth end grain. I personally would start with no lower than 100g sand paper and I would hand sand it, not use a power tool. Sand small circular motions working the entire surface. Sanding, by its nature, is a very slow process if you want a quality finish. Take out any larger ridges with the 100g sand paper. You should be able to run a coin or other smooth object across the surface without it catching on an edge. After that, go to 150, then 200 working the sandpaper in the same fashion, small circles.

JPGreco
07-21-2013, 06:35 PM
That should get you to a prefinish state. Now you have to decide what your sealer is going to be, oil or water based clear, etc. If it isn't as smooth as you want, you can repeat the above steps with a 220 or 250 sand paper. With wood, prefinished state, you really don't need to sand any higher than that. When you are finishing it, thats when you go to the 600g or steel wool.

Part of the secret of finishing end grain is that the wood itself may not be perfect, but the use of the finishing agent will smooth and hide those defects on end grains.

I just finished a wood project hand sanding the entire thing and it was more suitable to handle power sanding than what you are trying to do, but I know how easy it is to cause unwanted marks with power tools.

gryffynklm
07-21-2013, 06:47 PM
just got back... Like they said..... and Like JP said.. Even power sanding with a smaller grain like 100g until the parallel cut marks have disappeared then following with finer grit sand paper until the scratches are hard to see would be your best bet.

Keep in mind the courser the sand paper the more force required to hold the block of wood. Experiment with grit size and the force you apply to the tool.

edr730
07-21-2013, 06:56 PM
For something like that, I would glue paper to a metal or concrete cutting disk and put it on a table saw. I would keep not cut the disk off the log until the end of the log is smooth enough to satisfy you. In this way, you will have a safer longer piece of wood to work with. You may not have the funds for that kind of set up.
You could also just find the right concrete and rub the disk on it. I think in about 60 seconds you should be close to where you can finish with your palm sander.

JPGreco
07-21-2013, 07:13 PM
The other option, and its similar to yours edr, is to glue a full sheet of sand paper to a scrap board. Then clamp the board down. Sand the disc by moving the disc on the setup instead of the sandpaper on the disc. That will give you nice even pressure across the entire face. Though, I would still just hand sand it personally. I get a lot of satisfaction out of working a piece of wood without power tools or anything.

JPGreco
07-21-2013, 07:16 PM
post a pic if you can too

edr730
07-21-2013, 08:32 PM
Yes, JP with the paper glued to a board it should sand easily. Also, the problem that will occur with the end grain is that between the rings will be softer and, depending on the type of wood, you may have low or rougher areas. Finishing and sanding after the finish drys a few times should solve that problem.

JPGreco
07-21-2013, 08:54 PM
That's why distinguished between pre and post finish sanding. For the most part, you can stop sanding at 220 on almost any species of wood prior to your staining and finishing work, as long as you were diligent in the process.

Then, depending on your finish selection, you would use varying degrees of sand paper to smooth the finish. My recent project had a satin clear finish (I butchered it, but it's a learning process). Most people consider (in my research) 600g to be fine for satin finishes between coats. If I were to use a high gloss finish though, the process is a lot more difficult, including up the sand paper to 800 or even 1000g. Some suggested specific steel wool grades as well for sanding between high gloss coats.

Rick
07-22-2013, 04:14 AM
JP - You are correct. I generally use steel wool in between coats of finish. 0000 will scratch the surface enough for the next coat to adhere and form a good bond but not show up in the finish. I've found that true in all finishes I've used from poly to varnish. I've even used it between coats of stain on occasions.

JPGreco
07-22-2013, 05:20 PM
Rick, do you thin the finish coats at all? I read that some people suggest thinning the first coat or two a little to help it flow better on the bare wood.

Rick
07-22-2013, 10:15 PM
No, I don't. I generally sand to either 120 or 240 grit depending on what the project is. I then air blow the wood and then tack cloth it to remove any dust. For poly I apply full strength, usually with a cotton cloth balled up. I sand lightly with 0000 steel wool between coats and let dry at least 8 hours between coats. If it's really humid, raining, etc. then I let dry 12 hours. For varnish I've always applied full strength and applied with a brush.

Yves
07-23-2013, 07:27 AM
You guys keep talking about using steel wool, what do you mean exactly? Any particular product that you have in mind?

gryffynklm
07-23-2013, 08:01 AM
We mean "Steel Wool" not SOS which contains soap.

Steel wool comes in several fiber sizes. very fine to course. Like sand paper has a fine to course grit choose and use your steel wool the same way progressively using a finer wool to to progressively smooth and polish your project.

http://www.lowes.com/Paint/Sanding-Blocks-Steel-Wool/Steel-Wool/_/N-1z0yydv/pl#!

http://images.lowes.com/product/converted/033873/033873211143.jpg

JPGreco
07-23-2013, 07:55 PM
And you only have to worry about steel wool with the finish, and honestly, only with a gloss finish IMO. I've also been told to NOT use steel wool on water based finishes. The reason being is that there is a chance that very small steel fibers will be left behind in the finish. You won't be able to see them and it won't affect the finish in oil based products, but they may rust and discolor a water based finished. Again, being more evident in higher gloss finishes.

As I said, on my satin finish, 600 sand paper worked fine to take out the air bubbles and such that formed. The next coat would go on really nicely. However, I can see areas that would have benefited from a better sanding (more due to my mistakes than that the 600g wasn't enough), but the satin finish hides a lot.

Rick
07-23-2013, 08:04 PM
JP - I've never seen that but I don't use high gloss. I generally stick with a semi gloss just because I like the look. I use strictly water based. Oil based is just a pain in the keester unless you have to use it outside or someplace wet.

If you are getting tiny air bubbles in your finish try loading less finish on your rag or brush. I typically use a cotton T-shirt (cut up of course) balled up so that it looks something like a hackey sack. I went through a period of having those blasted things and finally figured out if I loaded less finish on the rag they didn't appear. I was using a water based polyurethane at the time. I had some custom cabinets and stair rails built last fall. The guy was having problems with bubbles on the stair rails and he was using a sponge brush. I told him to load less poly on the brush and try it. He came in a few minutes later and asked me how I knew that. Been there done that. Even the pros have trouble sometimes.

JPGreco
07-23-2013, 11:03 PM
Like I said, just something I heard about on the steel wool. I'm just getting into this stuff, so I have a large learning curve ahead. The bubbles were a result of too much on the brush, as you suggest, a crappy brush :) , and probably crappy poly (it was old, probably contaminated with small particles). Since this particular project was destined for storage under my bed, I wasn't super concerned. I still learned a fair amount for when I do my next project.

Basically I plan on trying the various approaches I read about on woodworking forums till I find what I like best and gives me the best results. I appreciate the tips though.

Rick
07-24-2013, 08:10 AM
If you have a Rocklers Woodworking near you I've always been pleased with them. I've always had good luck with their line of General Finishes stains and poly. Their Arm-R-Seal Oil and Urethane Top Coat is good stuff and easy to work with. That's about the only oil based top coat I'll use. It has mineral spirits in it so rags can catch fire on their own just so you know.

Yves
08-06-2013, 11:16 AM
Time for a little update.

I got a belt sander from my dad and P36 sandpaper. That stuff powers through the wood like a champ. Honestly, the ugly scratches are gone.

I have P120 sandpaper to make it smoother and then will use the palm sander.

So far so good!

Yves
08-06-2013, 02:41 PM
I'm done! The P36 and then with P120, makes some fine looking coasters. I'll still use the palm sander to make it even smoother, but that's for tomorrow, I have other things to do now.

One other question that I have is what I should coat it with to preserve the coasters and the surface? I'd like to avoid using a toxic substance if possible. I've heard people using olive oil. What's your experience and what do you guys recommend?

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yellowcab
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yellowcab
12-24-2025, 11:41 PM
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yellowcab
12-24-2025, 11:42 PM
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yellowcab
03-24-2026, 05:45 AM
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yellowcab
03-24-2026, 05:46 AM
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