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View Full Version : We Need to Beef Up Surveillance of Muslims



Rick
04-20-2013, 05:21 PM
"[Rep. Peter] King, who chairs the House subcommittee on Counterterrorism and Intelligence, is urging authorities to beef up their surveillance of Muslims in the U.S. following Friday night’s arrest of bombing suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev."

http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/04/20/after-boston-we-should-put-muslims-under-surveillance-says-rep-king/

This would be pretty laughable if the guy didn't have to clout to git-r-done. What's wrong with the folks from New York. Is there just a lack of intelligent folks seeking office? Jeeze Louise.

BENESSE
04-20-2013, 05:47 PM
From the article:

"Police must realize that the threat is coming from the Muslim community and increase surveillance there, the New York lawmaker told National Review (http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/346125/gop-congressman-%E2%80%98increase-surveillance%E2%80%99-muslim-community).

Kingwho spearheaded controversial hearings on the radicalization of Muslim-Americans in 2011also told (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/19/king-suspected-bombers-parents-wrong-offensive/)CNN that we cant be politically correct. I think we have to see, has radicalization extended into the Chechen community?

Rick, are you saying King has the clout of his office and isn't doing what he proposes? If yes, he can't do it by himself--too much ignorant, spineless push back.

WolfVanZandt
04-20-2013, 06:03 PM
Is there just a lack of intelligent folks seeking office?

Ur, yes. I thought that was established with the vice president's gun-control-might-not-do-any-good-but-it's-better-than-doing-nothing philosophy.

This is no more a violation of political correctness than was the consignment of loyal Japanese-Americans to concentration camps during WWII. It has nothing to do with political correctness and everything to do with evil.

It would be idiotically politically correct to avoid saying that Islam was a factor in the 9/11 atrocities. But, then, you have to admit that being human was also a factor. If you're going to segregate all Muslims because of the actions of extremists, you will also have to segregate all humans. Unfortunately, the narrower case might just logically lead to the broader case. Relationship building, one of the most important things in humanity, suffers considerably in modern society. The kind of irrational thinking blossoming from these acts of violence are threatening to pull us all further apart. The rational answer is to resist the destructive impulses and return to the basics:

People are more important than things.
Relationships are more important than possessions.
We are all connected - when one hurts, we all hurt; when one rejoices, we all rejoice.

Rick
04-20-2013, 06:06 PM
Oh,no. Not at all. Muslims aren't the problem. Muslims are no different than any other peace based religion. These zealots no more represent the Muslim religion than McVeigh did Christianity. We might as well say we need to beef up surveillance of all Saudi nationals or Chechen nationals or __________ (fill in the blank). So far we've managed to keep a close eye on African Americans, Communists, "Disloyal Americans", Gays and now anyone with a cell phone or computer. Shouldn't we go where the evidence takes us rather than target groups or individuals that may or may not have any involvement but happen to be X? That's my point.

WolfVanZandt
04-20-2013, 06:18 PM
Your irony was well performed and I agree. Islam is part of the formula. But there is such a thing as casting the net too broadly. Islam is not the problem - a particular version of Islam is. It's been pointed out that there are passages in the Koran that call Muslims to kill non-Muslims. In fact, there are passages in the Bible that tell people of Jehovah to kill people that do not worship Jehovah. And the problem is "out of context." I'm not Muslim nor do I have particular Muslim sympathies but I have read the Koran, I have known Muslims closely enough to study their understanding of Islam, and I have made it a point to study world religions to the point that I have a basic understanding of what's going on. Islam, in general, isn't a factor.

The problem is that most Muslims despise the horrible behavior of Muslim extremists and want to be a force to mitigate the problem. If we alienate all Muslims, we've lost a useful ally.

birdman6660
04-20-2013, 06:25 PM
heres my two cents worth ... muslims ? send 'em all back where they came from .. a bit haRsh ? yes ! but ya cant tell good from bad as is Obvious from many incidents worldwide so YES I say .. back they go .. ALL OF 'EM !

LowKey
04-20-2013, 06:33 PM
Really?
You are kidding, right?

birdman6660
04-20-2013, 06:43 PM
I CANT THINK OF Any other sure fire answer ...true they arent ALL problematic BUT .. when my christmas tree became a holiday tree and my kids had to deal with dagger wearing schoolmates I have a problem with this there are many other issues with muslims dig deep and you will see the issues ... " when in "ROME " ....... ....didnt mean to ruffle feathers .. sorry if I did !


Really?
You are kidding, right?

LowKey
04-20-2013, 06:54 PM
Your Christmas tree only became a Holiday tree because you let it.
When I was in school, every scout had a pocket knife.

And when the home grown white guy converts to being a radical Islamist, because the internet is everywhere, how are you gonna tell then?
What about the Muslims that were born here? And the ones whose parents were born here? And the ones whose parents' parents were born here?

When they come for you, I'll be sure to put in a good word.
If they don't get me first.
After all, someone might decide to expel all Italians because they might all belong to the Mafia.

BENESSE
04-20-2013, 07:00 PM
Shouldn't we go where the evidence takes us rather than target groups or individuals that may or may not have any involvement but happen to be X? That's my point.

Agree.
The problem is when we don't pursue the evidence because of PCness. Whether that was the case w/the Boston terrorists or just plain incompetence, the facts now show that there was clear, incriminating evidence with the older terrorist going back 2 years that was clearly disregarded.
This kinda thing makes people nuts and swing to another extreme out of frustration. I am fighting it every step of the way, but it's not easy.

birdman6660
04-20-2013, 07:10 PM
it was quite simply an opinion .... if it offends u I apologize ... but maybe a long hard look at the bigger picture will help ....

GreatUsername
04-20-2013, 07:18 PM
I CANT THINK OF Any other sure fire answer ...true they arent ALL problematic BUT .. when my christmas tree became a holiday tree and my kids had to deal with dagger wearing schoolmates I have a problem with this there are many other issues with muslims dig deep and you will see the issues ... " when in "ROME " ....... ....didnt mean to ruffle feathers .. sorry if I did !

Muslims are at fault in neither of those cases. Our governments are the culprits of equating secularism with state-mandated atheism/antitheism. I am all for secularism, but certainly not for suppressing religions of any sort. Islam on the whole is a religion of peace. To suspect all muslims because of a minority of their population is just as unfair as the recent law in Arizona suspecting all people of hispanic heritage to be illegal immigrants, and authorizing the cops to search them unconstitutionally, and demand to see papers or ID that prove their citizenship. I fear that anti-islamic sentiment in the western world is becoming similar to German (and to be perfectly honest, worldwide) anti-semitisim in the years leading up to WWII.

France is the perfect example of this. If you want a frightening example of an otherwise modern nation reverting to religiously phobic, un-just law, just look at French suppression of Islamic culture. Shameful stuff.

PineMartyn
04-20-2013, 07:19 PM
I, for one, was not at all offended. Just very disappointed.

WWJD?

Who would Jesus Deport?

crashdive123
04-20-2013, 07:28 PM
We're jumping into discussions of religion AND politics on this one. Lets let it go.

canid
04-20-2013, 07:45 PM
I know; We should beef up surveillance on people who home-can and have internet connections. We could establish some kind of nanny net so people can only access certain things, and limit pressure cooker capacities to 2qt.

Rick
04-20-2013, 07:50 PM
My overarching concern on this has nothing to do with religion. If I had thought it was going to go that way I wouldn't have posted. This is about individuals in a position of authority jumping to some inane conclusion without evidence and prior to the conclusion of an investigation. We don't even know that their religious affiliation had any connection. We don't even know what the motive(s) were. This time it just happens to be about Muslims. Next time it will be about .... ?.

RangerXanatos
04-20-2013, 08:18 PM
The way I figure it, there is just as many crazy people in one religion as there are in another and we (not us individuals but as a whole) WANT to reason why things happen. We want to reason that Boston happened because of the guys being Muslim, but Newtown (who I would assume people would call a Christian) was because of scary assault weapons? IMHO, it has nothing to do with the particular individuals religion, assault weapons, or the Twinky Shortage. It's the individuals have some messed-up connections in the head. Individuals are the problem, not the group.

RangerXanatos
04-20-2013, 08:22 PM
heres my two cents worth ... muslims ? send 'em all back where they came from .. a bit haRsh ? yes ! but ya cant tell good from bad as is Obvious from many incidents worldwide so YES I say .. back they go .. ALL OF 'EM !

I bet the Native Americans said the same thing...

PineMartyn
04-20-2013, 08:36 PM
We're jumping into discussions of religion AND politics on this one. Lets let it go.

This was the first time I ever ventured to post in a thread on a political or religious topic and I don't expect I shall again as I would prefer if discussions of highly politicized topics were left out of the forums or perhaps relegated to a sub-forum designed specifically for political topics for those who are interested in such subjects.

I'm not interested in endless posts about 2nd amendment issues, 4th amendment issues, etc, but because a very large percentage of the posts on this forum are devoted to such subjects (without being identified as political topics), I find I have to click on a thread title and read through the post or (worse yet) click on links to other pages or watch an uploaded video to discover that the cryptically named thread title is once again actually about some contentious political subject. It's getting to the point where I now don't care to read anything in the "General Chat" or "General Survival Discussion" forums because it's so often political talk (and most of that about gun rights).

Would the moderators consider a policy change? Could threads that are clearly about politics be posted to a sub-forum specifically for such topics? Or could we not at least implement a rule where 2nd amendment issues are confined to the Guns & Ammo sub-forum? Like many here, I am interested in wilderness survival and I certainly don't mind reading about current events that bear directly or indirectly on what this forum's supposed to be about, but it would be nice to know when one is about to read yet another thread about the 2nd amendment or the threat of government assault on individual liberties, by finding it in a "Current Event and Hot Political Topics" sub-forum, or the like. At the very least, could forum participants title their threads in such a way that would describe the content? Subject titles along the lines of 'Can you believe this?', with nothing but a link to another page or video, make one feel like one is just wasting one's time when one isn't interested in the subject area. There are some members who use non-descriptive or enigmatic titles in their threads with such regularity, I now avoid reading any new threads they create. The current thread was, I'm happy to say, quite clearly about a political subject; my bad for breaking my own rule and weighing in on it.

That's my two cents.

Hope this helps,
- Martin

Ken
04-20-2013, 09:13 PM
Hey, the older brother was married to a Portuguese girl. Those women can be vicious - they'll beat you into submission. Always keep a close eye on them Porch-u-geese ones.

Geek
04-20-2013, 09:51 PM
Since one of them was captured alive, I assume more information will come out over time, possibly at trial a few years from now. Unlike Rep. King I am willing to wait to see what happens, just as I am willing to wait for the outcome of the trial on the Aurora, CO shooting, etc. Sometimes it is smarter to wait until you have the facts, or at least wait for the movie. :-)

Rick
04-20-2013, 10:19 PM
Both politics and religion are forbidden topics. I did not start the thread to discuss either one. I thought I had explained that. Posts 14 and 16 (and now 22) outline that.

BENESSE
04-20-2013, 11:06 PM
If there is evidence that points to potential trouble, we cannot afford to ignore it. Shouldn't matter who is behind it (ethnically, mentally, religiously, socially, etc).

WolfVanZandt
04-21-2013, 02:25 PM
Actually, religion and politics are huge temptations in a topic like this, but they're not at the base. It's hard to tell which Muslims are good and which are bad? Indeed, it's hard to tell which humans are good and which are bad. The guy that blew up Oklahoma City wasn't Muslim. A lot of damage has been done lately by nonMuslims. The only way you're going to improve the problem by exportation is to move every human being on North America somewhere else - and then we'll have the same problem - just somewhere else.

The answer to the problem isn't easy (answers to real problems rarely are) but I don't think there's any other solution. The bedrock problems that lead to the horrific problems in the world today, and the ones that will have to be addressed if the problems are going to be solved, are not problems with Islam or any other group of people - the problem is with people, period. Humanity has developed some very bad self- and other-destructive habits and, unless we turn around and start dealing with humanity's (our own) problems, it'll continue to get worse.

So, as I've said before, things are going to get worse, and they might not ever get better again. Get used to it, because nobody is going to honestly assess their own part in the fiasco - the part of their family, community, interest groups, nation etc. It's always the other people causing the problems.......

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yellowcab
12-23-2025, 11:18 AM
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yellowcab
03-22-2026, 04:59 PM
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yellowcab
03-22-2026, 05:00 PM
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yellowcab
06-01-2026, 10:16 PM
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