The Culture of Survivalists

[First Hunt]

I've recently been bitten with the survivalism bug and taken it upon myself to be more self-reliant and minimalist. In doing so I've been introduced to a number of forums, books, articles and techniques. However, something that struck me most was the culture that came along with survivalism. I guess its typical for most sub-cultures (if thats what survivalism is) to have their own quirks, but I thought it was a topic worth writing about.

I wrote a brief analysis concerning the culture of survivalists. It is mainly critical as I thought praise for survivalism was self-evident in the blog itself (it is a largely survivalist blog). Just wanted to get you guys' opinion on the culture and maybe you could chime in on what you dislike or find strange about the culture.

I can't post the link here but here is the article.



I’ve been spending a bit of time within the survivalist community to learn the ropes and get some ideas of exactly what I should be learning to fulfil my goals. After all, those guys essentially wrote the book on self-reliance. In doing this I’ve noticed a few things and made some observations that although may be off topic, could prove useful to any readers interested in becoming involved with survivalism.

When Survivalism Goes To Far
While on the whole I’ve found the survivalist community very helpful in its content, I believe that it can sometimes go too far. There must be a line drawn where survivalism stops being a study of preparedness and becomes a strange hobby.

For example, I was recently scouring the website ITS Tactical, a fantastic resource for survivalists and military enthusiasts. On the whole it provides some helpful information concerning things such as lock picking and knotsmanship. However, I was quite bewildered by articles explaining how to create a station for learning how to tie knots. To me, this is absurd. Yes, practicing knots is an important activity, but it does not warrant the separate task of constructing a specialised station entirely dedicated to knot tying. This is a prime example of survivalism crossing the line. The marginal benefit of having a knot tying station as opposed to simply using a pole or other stationary object is minimal and I can confidently say that this kind of activity is purely the realm of the hobbyist.

This is similar to what happened with the ‘life hacking’ community. It went from helpful to absurd. There is only so much you can milk out of something and I think the survivalist and life hacking communities have both been bled dry. They are failing to innovate content and are creating excesses in existing topics.

This is just my opinion and an analysis of the survivalist community. It is time to innovate.

It’s Potentially Dangerous
This is related to my above point, but it is strange how survivalists spend so much time preparing for some life threatening event when there are life threatening events every single day that are statistically more likely to kill them. The whole thing can be quite distracting.

A black swan event could happen tomorrow and we have no way to statistically predict such a catastrophe. However, let’s say you are a hardcore survivalist who spends a large amount of your time preparing for such an event, yet you tend to drive over the speed limit on occasion. No amount of preparation for WTSHTF (When The **** Hits The Fan in survivalist speak) will prevent your death if you were to be in a road accident due to this.

If you are a survivalist reading this, you may posit that you do everything in your power to reduce the threat of death in all areas of your life. I’m going to argue that if you are actually serious about survivalism then it is probably wise to never step into your car again. It is probably best to rarely leave your house. It is probably a good thing to do a lot of the things that make life enjoyable. This isn’t a viable solution.

My point is not to get caught up with survivalism with the goal of actually surviving, because there are thousands of things other than the end of the world which could kill you and statistically have a higher chance of doing so. I know I dismissed the community as being a hobby-driven phenomenon above, but there is really nothing wrong with it as long as its constituents realise and acknowledge that it is just a hobby.

It Attracts Crazy People
The topic of apocalyptic events tends to attract people of the crazy variety. I have seen quite a few posts by certified nut jobs and while I disregard their views, I can’t but help notice that these people are quite insane.

I don’t think this last point is much of a problem for budding survivalists as long as they don’t get swayed by the opinions of some crazy.


What are your thoughts?

First Hunt

[Mozartghost1791]

The 'prepper' survivalists often take it a bit far. After you have a certain amount of nonperishable food, guns, etc... One could argue that it's a waste of time and money to store more of it. Also, a real survival situation, unless you live in hurricane country, is more likely not to involve your house and its accompaning stash of goodies. I don't have anything against people preparing for a natural disaster or learning useful 'survival' skills, but when it gets into the 'zombie apocalypse' or 'rapture' or 'judgement day' end of the world nonsense then it starts to become a little ridiculous. Instead of surviving the end of the world, I'm more interested in connecting with nature and making it possible to camp and 'survive' without commercial goods or anything made by anyone but me. Self sufficiency as it were. People actually did live like this at one point in the past, and even though I acknowledge that its still more of a hobby rather than legitimately improving my odds of 'surviving' in life, it seems to make a lot more 'survival' sense to know skills that you can bring anywhere than to fill your house with guns and food and wait for the end of the world.

[First Hunt]

I completely agree.

The main problem is when people actually believe that all their constant chatter about whether it is better to have black boots or camouflage boots will actually contribute to their survival in a life threatening situation, when in reality such behaviour is not conducive to fulfilling there goal of being prepared but rather just wastes time, considering the marginal benefits versus costs. However, if its an enjoyable activity and you recognise it as a hobby, it is totally fine.

The issue arises when people fail to distinguish the two and get caught up thinking that they will be the victors when **** goes down.

[Winter]

I don't think it's up to me to judge how or why a person spends their own time and money.

I consider prepping a lifestyle ore than a hobby.

As far as victory goes, well, all we can do it mitigate challenges by having the right skills, mindset, and gear. Situations have a tendency to turn south at the worst times, and, mini-miracles of good fortune happen when you need them.

Bad luck can ruin the best laid plans. Good luck can save the day.

[sticker]

I could care less what anyone else does or thinks, I just do my thing the way I see fit

[Sarge47]

First Hunt, I believe that your "over-thinking" this. Prepping can be summed up in two words: "Be Prepared." You can take that as far as you want, and that's what we're seeing today. Some prep small, and they go all the way up to major extremes depending on the individual. You just have to find out what works for you. Uh, you don't work for "Doomsday Preppers" do you?...................:confused1:

[First Hunt]

I'm just making observations. There is nothing wrong with that.

Anthropology wouldn't exist if we didn't think about these kinds of things, and they tell us a lot about mass psychology.

[Sarge47]

I'm just making observations. There is nothing wrong with that.

Anthropology wouldn't exist if we didn't think about these kinds of things, and they tell us a lot about mass psychology.No, there's nothing wrong in that...are you a psychiatrist? What are your credentials to analyze all of this? I've read your blog and it's mostly beginner stuff. So what's up?....:confused1:

[First Hunt]

I don't think credentials are required to write a blog post analysing something, are they?

I'm not a psychiatrist, and this kind of analysis would probably be more in line with anthropology I think.

It's mostly beginner stuff because I'm a beginner. My blog is meant to track my progress towards self-reliance and minimalism. Hopefully down the track it's got some material for those more seasoned among you when I myself learn more.

[Sarge47]

I don't think credentials are required to write a blog post analysing something, are they?

I'm not a psychiatrist, and this kind of analysis would probably be more in line with anthropology I think.

It's mostly beginner stuff because I'm a beginner. My blog is meant to track my progress towards self-reliance and minimalism. Hopefully down the track it's got some material for those more seasoned among you when I myself learn more.

Well, I can't speak for the others on here, but all my info's "classified!".............:sailor:

[Wildthang]

I think is very easy for a lot of people to get caught up in the doomsday survival mode of thinking, because in doing that, they join several forums with hard core survivalists preaching all of the bad things that is going to happen, and if a person isn't careful, before they know it it has become an obsession. A person has to control and guard himself from the " over the top " attitudes and realize that if a major apocalypse occurs, no amount of preps will save you.
One must balance himself against extreme thoughts, and simply prepare as much as he can afford, against likely natural disasters and have a plan "b" and plan"C". When you accomplish that, quit worrying and do what you enjoy.
We all must remember that life is too short to be paranoid about things we can't control!

[Rick]

If you have just been introduced to a subject how can you have an opinion on it? I would think the better road would be to adhere to the counsel of Epictetus when he said, "Nature hath given man two ears and one tongue that he might listen twice as much as he speaks."

[Geek]

From what you posted, I'd say you're kind of windy about it. You are correct that it makes no sense to prepare for a less likely, longer term, event if you haven't prepared for a more likely, shorter term event. On the other hand turning prepping into a sort of hobby is harmless.

[finallyME]

"You all are a bunch of crazies!.....what are your thoughts?"

"Pot calling the kettle black" is the first thought that comes to mind. Rick's comment would be the second. "Can't see the forest for the trees" would be my third thought.

ITS Tactical isn't a survivalist website. It is more for the military operative. If you are going to judge a survivalist website, then you have to use an actual one. Incidentally, making a training device is a great idea, especially if it helps you train large groups.
Interesting that you claim there is no innovation. A true beginner wouldn't know very much on the subject. Have you already learned all there is to know, and are now bored because you can't find anything new?
"It's potentially dangerous".....really? It was really hard to find your argument on why it is potentially dangerous. All I got was that it was distracting. Listing a bunch of activities that are more dangerous only disprove that it is dangerous. All you accomplished was to state your opinion, and then prove your own opinion false. Using your logic, I can safely assume that if I wanted to pick an activity, survivalism would be among the safer ones to choose from.
You are right about survivalism attracting crazy people. Like a bug to a light. Ironic that you are attracted to it as well......hmmmm.

Next time, learn what survivalism really means. You have no clue. Building a strawman is really easy when you don't know what you are talking about.

[hunter63]

...........
The issue arises when people fail to distinguish the two and get caught up thinking that they will be the victors when **** goes down.

No one has ever prepared to get into a fight to lose.....
Story told by MF as a member of a bomber crew in the south pacific theater of operations during WWII.....when told at a pre-raid briefing.

"Men, tomorrow there will be 100 plane going out, only 40 will return......."
MF and his crew, would look around, and think....."I pity THOSE poor basta**ds".

Looks to me like you are making it a hobby of taking interweb information, forming your opinion, then spewing.....IMHO.

So, have fun, there isn't anything I care to worry about here........

[First Hunt]

If you have just been introduced to a subject how can you have an opinion on it? I would think the better road would be to adhere to the counsel of Epictetus when he said, "Nature hath given man two ears and one tongue that he might listen twice as much as he speaks."

Survivalism and its culture are two very different things. This is analogous to saying one's opinion of European culture is void because they are not European. The Epictetus quote is a good one, but it is irrelevant in this context. I was going to say more but I'll just point you here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_anthropology

I wasn't asking you to comment on the fact that I am a beginner survivalist or that my opinion is irrelevant, I was merely asking you to comment on a culture to which you are a member of.


From what you posted, I'd say you're kind of windy about it. You are correct that it makes no sense to prepare for a less likely, longer term, event if you haven't prepared for a more likely, shorter term event. On the other hand turning prepping into a sort of hobby is harmless.

I completely agree.


"You all are a bunch of crazies!.....what are your thoughts?"

"Pot calling the kettle black" is the first thought that comes to mind. Rick's comment would be the second. "Can't see the forest for the trees" would be my third thought.

ITS Tactical isn't a survivalist website. It is more for the military operative. If you are going to judge a survivalist website, then you have to use an actual one. Incidentally, making a training device is a great idea, especially if it helps you train large groups.
Interesting that you claim there is no innovation. A true beginner wouldn't know very much on the subject. Have you already learned all there is to know, and are now bored because you can't find anything new?
"It's potentially dangerous".....really? It was really hard to find your argument o
n why it is potentially dangerous. All I got was that it was distracting. Listing a bunch of activities that are more dangerous only disprove that it is dangerous. All you accomplished was to state your opinion, and then prove your own opinion false. Using your logic, I can safely assume that if I wanted to pick an activity, survivalism would be among the safer ones to choose from.
You are right about survivalism attracting crazy people. Like a bug to a light. Ironic that you are attracted to it as well......hmmmm.

Next time, learn what survivalism really means. You have no clue. Building a strawman is really easy when you don't know what you are talking about.

I may be mistaken but I think many of ITS Tactical's more instructional posts are grounded in survivalist thinking. I was actually pointed to many of its articles from another survivalist board. Maybe their about page confused me where they say:

We don’t limit our content to any particular viewpoint, rather our goal is to become an open-source community of different methods, ideas and knowledge that could one day save your life.

I'm not going to bother discussing your point on whether it is dangerous, you've missed the point entirely.

As for learning what survivalism really means, that is what I am here to do. I have never professed to be a survivalism expert, in fact I think I have been pretty candid in stating that I am a beginner.



If we could get back to the original question of the culture of survivalism, that would be great.

[rebel]

The "crazy" show up but get weeded out. Like most of society , you'll get a bell curve on every topic. As for inventing topics, maybe it's human nature to look for better ways of doing things. Forums are a form of entertainment.

[Sarge47]

I wasn't asking you to comment on the fact that I am a beginner survivalist or that my opinion is irrelevant, I was merely asking you to comment on a culture to which you are a member of.

As for learning what survivalism really means, that is what I am here to do. I have never professed to be a survivalism expert, in fact I think I have been pretty candid in stating that I am a beginner.

If we could get back to the original question of the culture of survivalism, that would be great.

Actually, everybody on the face of this planet, one way or another, is a member of that "culture", it's what we're born with, the will to survive, or, as science may call it, the instinct of self-preservation. So what you're asking about a "so-called culture," is a rather broad topic, since everybody that doesn't have a death wish strives to survive, even you, so start there..............:sailor:

[First Hunt]

The "crazy" show up but get weeded out. Like most of society , you'll get a bell curve on every topic. As for inventing topics, maybe it's human nature to look for better ways of doing things. Forums are a form of entertainment.
On some of the other forums I've been on and some of the survivalists I've met in real life, it seems like there are a fair few who I would call 'extreme.' I will say that I have yet to see any such comments on this forum which is a good thing.


The "crazy" show up but get weeded out. Like most of society , you'll get a bell curve on every topic. As for inventing topics, maybe it's human nature to look for better ways of doing things. Forums are a form of entertainment.
I see your point, but most people are not actively preparing, which I think is the key distinction.


Survivalism is a movement of individuals or groups (called survivalists or preppers) who are actively preparing for emergencies, including possible disruptions in social or political order, on scales from local to international. Survivalists often acquire emergency medical and self-defense training, stockpile food and water, prepare to become self-sufficient, and build structures (e.g., a survival retreat or an underground shelter) that may help them survive a catastrophe.

[rebel]

Life hasn't always been so easy. It's a good thing your ancestors wanted to be "active".

[Sarge47]

You said: "Survivalism is a movement of individuals or groups (called survivalists or preppers) who are actively preparing for emergencies, including possible disruptions in social or political order, on scales from local to international. Survivalists often acquire emergency medical and self-defense training, stockpile food and water, prepare to become self-sufficient, and build structures (e.g., a survival retreat or an underground shelter) that may help them survive a catastrophe."

I beg to differ, while that may describe a certain group of people I take offense at the word "survivalism" used to describe them/us. Mankind has always done this in one form or another ever since he's come into existence! I started prepping for emergencies way back when I worked in a "care-giver" type capacity taking care of two guys who were quadriplegic in wheel chairs.(Cerebral Palsy.) Part of the household preps in case of a tornado, for example, was to have certain items on hand in case of a natural disaster that might shut the utilities to the house down. Included in that list were:

A gallon jug of water.

A large flashlight.

An AM/FM radio with the NOAA weather band.

A large-size 1st aid kit.

Once a month, at times to be determined by the company I worked for, a drill had to be run that would actively prepare us for a tornado. We also had to do one monthly for fire where we actually left the house. I was also trained in 1st Aid and CPR. This was not of my choosing, but a requirement of law in order for me to get the job, however I thought it was a great idea, so I've implemented a similar program in my home. Does that make me a loony or a Boy Scout? I prefer the latter term...........:sailor:

[First Hunt]

I understand your stance on what survivalism means, but wouldn't you say that the term has come to refer to a very specific segment of what you deem to be the survivalist community? Your definition of a survivalist is very broad. Someone can manage a portfolio of stocks, but it does not make them a fund manager. Only if you consider a broad literal definition does it make it so.

This article on the topic is quite interesting: http://www.trendsresearch.com/SubscriberArea/wp-content/2010-Q2/neo-survivalism.pdf

[Sarge47]

I understand your stance on what survivalism means, but wouldn't you say that the term has come to refer to a very specific segment of what you deem to be the survivalist community? Your definition of a survivalist is very broad. Someone can manage a portfolio of stocks, but it does not make them a fund manager. Only if you consider a broad literal definition does it make it so.

This article on the topic is quite interesting: http://www.trendsresearch.com/SubscriberArea/wp-content/2010-Q2/neo-survivalism.pdf

It IS a very broad topic , and your attempts to "pigeon-hole" it appears to me more like a "witch-hunt" than a beginner looking to learn about "survivalism."

Opinions vary. In survival, it's what ever keeps you alive. In my blog section I list several survival stories that actually happened. On top of that, look at what happened here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Sioux_Scout_Ranch

or here: http://www.kansascity.com/2013/01/14/4010048/father-2-sons-die-while-hiking.html

This is not a topic that you learn in a class room. Now if you're looking for the guys like those who are anxiously awaiting the Zombie Apocalypse, well, I don't know what to tell you. There are very few of those on this site......:sailor:

[BENESSE]

There's a "fringe" in any group--religious, political, you name it--and preppers are no exception. But then, that's nothing new.

[cwi555]

FH,
I note that your op included a reference to talebs black swan theory. I also note a tenacious trend in your thought process towards sticking with the definitions as 'you' defined them.
Now if I were to be developing a paper/thesis/study etc, I'd likely be approaching it in a similar manner with one key exception. My research would take the answers provided to develope the definitions, rather than letting preconceived definitions define my study for me. I am not saying that's what your doing, but as a bit of advice, you should really, consider the words provided you by this board with a more open mind.

[cwi555]

In regards to a definition, the eventual fate of dieing will catch us all. The goal of survival therefore becomes one of evading that date for the longest possible time. Time kills us all, but we will are born with a drive to survive as long as possible.

[JPGreco]

FH,
I note that your op included a reference to talebs black swan theory. I also note a tenacious trend in your thought process towards sticking with the definitions as 'you' defined them.
Now if I were to be developing a paper/thesis/study etc, I'd likely be approaching it in a similar manner with one key exception. My research would take the answers provided to develope the definitions, rather than letting preconceived definitions define my study for me. I am not saying that's what your doing, but as a bit of advice, you should really. Consider the words provided you by this board with a more open mind.

I agree with this, as its very difficult and closer to impossible to have any type of discussion when you are defining the terms yourself. The only exception to this is to give the definition of the word as you see it prior to the start of the discussion. Though this tends to lead to a long discussion on what definition to use; your's, mine, 3rd party, academic source, etc. Either that or a long discussion on why your particular definition may be incorrect base upon my opinion or another sources information. At the very least it prevents confusion and semantic arguments.

[kyratshooter]

I did not see this thread until toady and I must say that reading the whole thread has been enlightening from the OP to the last one.

My opinion?

First, the OP has developed an entire philosophy and placed everyone in a nice little box based on what he has discovered on the fantacy world of the internet.

Keyboard jockys are widely known to be just that, restricted to life on the keyboard. Just look at the medical sections of most survival forums and think about how many that visit are morbidly obese, diabetic, have heart conditions or are disabled in some way. The constant posts were they "wish they could get out" but everything prevents a "boots in the field" experience when they really can't get out the door without the help of the fire brigade. That or they simply can't afford it in their disability check or the kids need milk and the unemployment checks never cover everything! It is the same on almost every survival forum.

I visit one forum where the top moderator finally admitted to being absent from the forum due to treatment for being mentally ill. He lost his job, the wife left, took the kids and the dog finally bit him and ran off.

WSF is considerably different.

Being a "prepper" can take one into the land of no return if one does not realize that it is impossible to forsee every contingency and/or be prepared for every disaster. One must draw the line between reality and the fantacy that one can prepare for what does not exist. Or that the "End of the World" means the end for everyone but you!

I began prepping intentionally in 1970 after a tornado devastated my region and put me in harm's way for 2 weeks. I do not consider prepping a compulsion, just a reasonable part of a life that has contained numerous storms, tornadoes, blizzards and a couple of mild earthquakes.

I started before the internet existed. I read some of Howard Ruff's work and some of Mell Tappin. Both were preaching doomsday even back in the 1970s, and, once again, Mell Tappin, the master of the survival gun world for 20 years, was a quadraplegic confined to a wheelchair. Finding that out really put me to thinking and I started questioning more of the "advice" I was reading.

It was 30 years latter that I began messing about with the computer and I have really not changed a thing along the way. But when Y2K rolled around I realized I didn't need to buy any new stuff! I also did not advise everyone I knew to run out and buy a buch of stuff.

It was their business.

Now as far as analysis goes,,,

The OP should be aware that there are some well educated specialists on this forum. Ther "prepper world", and espically this particular forum, is a cross section of income and intelligence groups. Several of the "nut jobs" you are confronting here are phsycologists, threapists and counsolers. We also have a couple of lawyers, professors, marketing specialists and businessmen. We probably have a higher percentage of people with advanced educations than the normal shoot'em and loot'em forum, which also draws many of us here constantly, to enjoy the company of intelligent people. (OK not all intelligent people can spell worth sh!% !)

No one here wants to be put in a box. Espically the same box with all the nutjobs on many of the other forums. And espically with the nutjobs that offer a "blog" when they don't know crap aboput what they are saying. Sometimes newbies actually think those guys know what they are talking about!

[Rick]

top moderator finally admitted to being absent from the forum due to treatment for being mentally ill. He lost his job, the wife left, took the kids and the dog finally bit him and ran off. WSF is considerably different.

Um....How so?

[Geek]

I visit one forum where the top moderator finally admitted to being absent from the forum due to treatment for being mentally ill. He lost his job, the wife left, took the kids and the dog finally bit him and ran off.



That sounds entertaining, could you post a link? :-)

[crashdive123]

Um....How so?[/COLOR]

You, Sarge or I have not been bitten by our dogs........yet.

[First Hunt]

I did not see this thread until toady and I must say that reading the whole thread has been enlightening from the OP to the last one.

My opinion?

First, the OP has developed an entire philosophy and placed everyone in a nice little box based on what he has discovered on the fantacy world of the internet.

Keyboard jockys are widely known to be just that, restricted to life on the keyboard. Just look at the medical sections of most survival forums and think about how many that visit are morbidly obese, diabetic, have heart conditions or are disabled in some way. The constant posts were they "wish they could get out" but everything prevents a "boots in the field" experience when they really can't get out the door without the help of the fire brigade. That or they simply can't afford it in their disability check or the kids need milk and the unemployment checks never cover everything! It is the same on almost every survival forum.

I visit one forum where the top moderator finally admitted to being absent from the forum due to treatment for being mentally ill. He lost his job, the wife left, took the kids and the dog finally bit him and ran off.

WSF is considerably different.

Being a "prepper" can take one into the land of no return if one does not realize that it is impossible to forsee every contingency and/or be prepared for every disaster. One must draw the line between reality and the fantacy that one can prepare for what does not exist. Or that the "End of the World" means the end for everyone but you!

I began prepping intentionally in 1970 after a tornado devastated my region and put me in harm's way for 2 weeks. I do not consider prepping a compulsion, just a reasonable part of a life that has contained numerous storms, tornadoes, blizzards and a couple of mild earthquakes.

I started before the internet existed. I read some of Howard Ruff's work and some of Mell Tappin. Both were preaching doomsday even back in the 1970s, and, once again, Mell Tappin, the master of the survival gun world for 20 years, was a quadraplegic confined to a wheelchair. Finding that out really put me to thinking and I started questioning more of the "advice" I was reading.

It was 30 years latter that I began messing about with the computer and I have really not changed a thing along the way. But when Y2K rolled around I realized I didn't need to buy any new stuff! I also did not advise everyone I knew to run out and buy a buch of stuff.

It was their business.

Now as far as analysis goes,,,

The OP should be aware that there are some well educated specialists on this forum. Ther "prepper world", and espically this particular forum, is a cross section of income and intelligence groups. Several of the "nut jobs" you are confronting here are phsycologists, threapists and counsolers. We also have a couple of lawyers, professors, marketing specialists and businessmen. We probably have a higher percentage of people with advanced educations than the normal shoot'em and loot'em forum, which also draws many of us here constantly, to enjoy the company of intelligent people. (OK not all intelligent people can spell worth sh!% !)

No one here wants to be put in a box. Espically the same box with all the nutjobs on many of the other forums. And espically with the nutjobs that offer a "blog" when they don't know crap aboput what they are saying. Sometimes newbies actually think those guys know what they are talking about!

Your response is interesting as I haven't actually put anybody in a box. I have drawn a few rational conclusions based on things which I have observed (not just on the Internet as you have said, mind you) throughout the survivalism community. I have not said that survivalists are nut jobs, I have said that the fundamentals of the community attracts nut jobs. Also, I never made any allusion to income/intelligence brackets and their connection with being a nut job survivalist, but if you want to discuss that, that's fine. It could be an interesting subject unto itself

I hate to break it to you, but regardless of this forums members and their qualities, it is still a part of the broader survivalist community to which we are meant to be discussing. There is no need to take offence because of a few deductions that do not apply to you. Do you think Americans get wildly insulted if someone were to say 'I went to America and there are a lot of overweight people there?' If you are not a nut job yourself, then who really cares?

As I've said before in the thread: can we please discuss the negatives of survivalism's culture. If you cannot add value to the discussion through well-thought observations, then please do not post.

Otherwise a moderator should close the thread because it will fail to serve its purpose.

[Old Professor]

Survivor to Prepper is a continium with Prepper at the exreme right. The Survivalist is a realist that understands that there are more likely and less likely events that can threaten life and limb and that a prudent person makes preparations that increases their likelyhood of withstanding these events. I came into Survivalism by way of the Civil Defense program in the 1950's (bomb shelter, ect.) and then working with the American Red Cross on disaster relief. The Red Cross publishes lists of reccommended supplies that each person/family should have on hand and certain skills, like first aid training that people should learn. If you look at disasters like Hurricane Sandy, far too many people in the affected region were oblivious to the well publicised dangers and ignored evacuation reccommendations/orders and made virtually NO preparations for personal survival. Those people that did prepare and/or evacuate are "Survialists". Those that didn't - we call "victums!'
Although I live by my self, I have those supplies for a week of more stored and means of defending me and mine and have like minded friends. We are NOT the far right Preppers. We have made rational evaluations of probable disaster events occuring in our local region and try to be prepared for those events. We do not worry about events we can do nothing about like an asteroid strike!

[hunter63]

I am finding the whole idea of any attempt to categorize any group,..... preppers, survivalist, hunters, campers, book worms and stamp collectors.....using interweb as a basis of reference.....It is just tedious....Just my $.02 cents.
Carry on.

[kyratshooter]

Your response is interesting as I haven't actually put anybody in a box. I have drawn a few rational conclusions based on things which I have observed (not just on the Internet as you have said, mind you) throughout the survivalism community. I have not said that survivalists are nut jobs, I have said that the fundamentals of the community attracts nut jobs. Also, I never made any allusion to income/intelligence brackets and their connection with being a nut job survivalist, but if you want to discuss that, that's fine. It could be an interesting subject unto itself

I hate to break it to you, but regardless of this forums members and their qualities, it is still a part of the broader survivalist community to which we are meant to be discussing. There is no need to take offence because of a few deductions that do not apply to you. Do you think Americans get wildly insulted if someone were to say 'I went to America and there are a lot of overweight people there?' If you are not a nut job yourself, then who really cares?

As I've said before in the thread: can we please discuss the negatives of survivalism's culture. If you cannot add value to the discussion through well-thought observations, then please do not post.

Otherwise a moderator should close the thread because it will fail to serve its purpose.

So, you want to insist that this forum is a part of the general survivalist movement, which you claim is not putting us in a box, and you want us to concentrate our discussion on the negitive aspects of survivalism. Is that not much like shooting oneself in the foot?

And if I object to this I must be one of the nutjobs.

And if I do not agree with your definition of positive and constructive negitivism I am not to post on your thread.

You may have the ability to control input and erase folk from your blog, but not here.

You really should go into politics.

[First Hunt]

So, you want to insist that this forum is a part of the general survivalist movement, which you claim is not putting us in a box, and you want us to concentrate our discussion on the negitive aspects of survivalism. Is that not much like shooting oneself in the foot?

And if I object to this I must be one of the nutjobs.

And if I do not agree with your definition of positive and constructive negitivism I am not to post on your thread.

You may have the ability to control input and erase folk from your blog, but not here.

You really should go into politics.

Have you ever come across an extremist survivalist in your quest to become proficient in the field of wilderness survival?

[Winter]

What is your definition of extremism?

It's extraordinarily subjective.

[First Hunt]

Someone who takes it too far, whatever that means to you. I think all of us would have a pretty good collective idea of what that means.

I didn't realise, but books have been written on the matter. Here is an interesting interview:
http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/532445in.html

He talks about things like shared madness and explains how crazy people do exist within the community but when acts of violence occur they usually come from isolates; individuals outside of conventional survivalist assocations.

[Sarge47]

First Strike, I understand you're curiosity, but the problem is that you're not getting the answers you want so now you want to shut the thread down. It doesn't work like that. You have already formed an opinion and you don't like the "counter-opinions" that you're getting, but that's what you're going to get here. This is NOT a "survivalist" site, this is a "Wilderness Survival" site. However, I wouldn't go so far as to call the extremists "crazy," but rather prepared to the max! I don't know enough about them to call them crazy and I don't care for the opinions of writers who call them that either. What if those extremists are right? Did you ever consider that? Remember that in any "true" investigation, you must be totally objective, not subjective. No preconceived ideas, but rather let the results that you find then help you formulate your opinion. Besides, would you really want to risk antagonizing a group of gun-wielding hard core survivalist fanatics? Think about it......:sailor:

[Winter]

I don't see any collective idea of what level of preparedness would be considered extreme.

Let's say I could afford to build me house. Many would see it as an extreme survival prep. I'd see it as fire proof, earthquake proof, and gunfire proof. It would reduce my heating costs.

It would be judged extreme just because of how it looks, much like firearms are.

I bet my State Farm agent gives me a sweet rate on it.

Looks extreme, but factually practical.

[First Hunt]

First Strike, I understand you're curiosity, but the problem is that you're not getting the answers you want so now you want to shut the thread down. It doesn't work like that. You have already formed an opinion and you don't like the "counter-opinions" that you're getting, but that's what you're going to get here. This is NOT a "survivalist" site, this is a "Wilderness Survival" site. However, I wouldn't go so far as to call the extremists "crazy," but rather prepared to the max! I don't know enough about them to call them crazy and I don't care for the opinions of writers who call them that either. What if those extremists are right? Did you ever consider that? Remember that in any "true" investigation, you must be totally objective, not subjective. No preconceived ideas, but rather let the results that you find then help you formulate your opinion. Besides, would you really want to risk antagonizing a group of gun-wielding hard core survivalist fanatics? Think about it......:sailor:

Please point me to a post where I have expressed dislike at someones counter-opinion on the matter. I have only told people to stay on topic instead of harping on about how I know nothing about survival and am in no position to cast opinion. I have addressed both issues and they do not need to be brought up again.

I know that this is a wilderness survival forum. The reason I brought the question here is because I thought members (as opposed to a survivalist forum) would be levelheaded enough to discuss a topic that they may have experience in. If you believe there is a huge divide between the content here and on a general survivalist forum, then I really don't know how to respond. There is a degree of crossover and I assume a lot of people here have had experience with the survivalism community and the seemingly strange people that can accompany it. I am only just starting out but have already met some weirdos at a bowhunting club I frequent who say some pretty farfetched things; conspiracy theories etc.

Yes, they could be true, as you said. We could all be in the matrix, but that is an entirely different kettle of fish.

I should not have to define extremism. Read the interview I posted, it is explained therein.

My ideas are not preconceived. They are based on observation.

[rebel]

Actually, this is comical.

[Sarge47]

Please point me to a post where I have expressed dislike at someones counter-opinion on the matter. I have only told people to stay on topic instead of harping on about how I know nothing about survival and am in no position to cast opinion. I have addressed both issues and they do not need to be brought up again.

I know that this is a wilderness survival forum. The reason I brought the question here is because I thought members (as opposed to a survivalist forum) would be levelheaded enough to discuss a topic that they may have experience in. If you believe there is a huge divide between the content here and on a general survivalist forum, then I really don't know how to respond. There is a degree of crossover and I assume a lot of people here have had experience with the survivalism community and the seemingly strange people that can accompany it. I am only just starting out but have already met some weirdos at a bowhunting club I frequent who say some pretty farfetched things; conspiracy theories etc.

Yes, they could be true, as you said. We could all be in the matrix, but that is an entirely different kettle of fish.

I should not have to define extremism. Read the interview I posted, it is explained therein.

My ideas are not preconceived. They are based on observation.

Then you need to reformulate your view/opinion if you have a "preconceived notion" that this site is going to fit into your definition of "levelheadedness." You're contradicting yourself and that's why you're going nowhere with this, besides, you can't control the minds and opinions of others, so you need to accept the posts as they come, On topic or not, in your opinion. Can't you see that most here are in disagreement about what you're stating? It's pretty obvious.....:sailor:

[First Hunt]

Actually, everyone who has responded to the issue is in agreement with me mate.

The problem is that there a few taking the thread off-topic by getting their knickers in a twist rather than submitting their views on the matter. It's noise versus signals.

[rebel]

BBBZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzz

Know what that is?

Ban button warming up.

[rebel]

Seriously, the procedure for information is flawed.

[sticker]

it cant come soon enough for me, at least blade had an imagination. THATS IT, lets hook the 2 of them up :innocent:

[Wildthang]

Man we sure get some doozies on here:smartass:

[crashdive123]

There's no reason to talk about banning. If this thread doesn't interest you then don't post in it. If it doesn't interest anybody then the thread will die a quick death. Pretty simple stuff.

[Mozartghost1791]

At least here we don't talk about zombies... that often!

[kyratshooter]

Actually, this is comical.

It's like talking to a fence post!

[Wildthang]

Is it just me? I do not consider any of us on here survivalists. To me we are just a bunch of people that love the wilderness, camping, learning bushcraft skills along with a little prepping. I consider most of us on here as wilderness bushcraft people and the word survivalist just doesn't seem to fit us, in fact it almost makes me mad everytime I see it used on here.
I view survivalists as people who are always looking for an apocalyptic event to prepare for, and who practice military type drills with their family or group on a regular basis. We don't build bunkers, we don't dress like mercenary's, and we don't keep hand grenades and rocket launchers in our bunker.
So yeah, I really don't think the word survivalist even belongs on this forum. Hell we all lost our grenades and rocket launchers in the varous canoe sinkings and none of us can afford to buy new ones:scared:

[BENESSE]

I know that this is a wilderness survival forum. The reason I brought the question here is because I thought members (as opposed to a survivalist forum) would be levelheaded enough to discuss a topic that they may have experience in.

What's there to discuss, though?

If you believe there is a huge divide between the content here and on a general survivalist forum, then I really don't know how to respond. There is a degree of crossover and I assume a lot of people here have had experience with the survivalism community and the seemingly strange people that can accompany it.

Yes, there is crossover (it's a free country) but those withe more "exotic" views don't stick around too long since they don't get much traction around here. They are either banned or they leave.

I am only just starting out but have already met some weirdos at a bowhunting club I frequent who say some pretty farfetched things; conspiracy theories etc.

Yup, there are those in every walk of life. (don't get me started on politics) If you share their POV, you engage. If you don't, you steer clear. We pretty much do.

Yes, they could be true, as you said. We could all be in the matrix, but that is an entirely different kettle of fish.

I should not have to define extremism. Read the interview I posted, it is explained therein.

My ideas are not preconceived. They are based on observation.

People believe what they want to believe and as long as they don't impose it on anyone else, discussing it is an exercise in futility; maybe that's why people around here don't see the point of getting into it. JMO.

[kyratshooter]

Has the troll toss begun yet?

If so at what post did it begin?

I need this for my records.

We must be running out of local trolls and have need for imported ones.

[hunter63]

Ohhhh,..... never mind (said in the classic Emily Litella...voice)

[Geek]

Is it just me? I do not consider any of us on here survivalists. To me we are just a bunch of people that love the wilderness, camping, learning bushcraft skills along with a little prepping. I consider most of us on here as wilderness bushcraft people and the word survivalist just doesn't seem to fit us, in fact it almost makes me mad everytime I see it used on here.
I view survivalists as people who are always looking for an apocalyptic event to prepare for, and who practice military type drills with their family or group on a regular basis. We don't build bunkers, we don't dress like mercenary's, and we don't keep hand grenades and rocket launchers in our bunker.
So yeah, I really don't think the word survivalist even belongs on this forum. Hell we all lost our grenades and rocket launchers in the varous canoe sinkings and none of us can afford to buy new ones:scared:

I think all the terms are a bit slippery. I am part of the stuff happens school of thought so I have been trying to get my family prepared for a wider variety and longer duration problems over time. That attitude made us quite comfortable during Hurricane Sandy, so it has caused me to want to be prepared further still.

If somebody wants to call me a survivalist, I guess I'm okay if it is meant to be descriptive rather than derogatory.

[cwi555]

I have to agree with those who refuse to be branded, or buy into preconceptions. Remember how the definition of an 'assault weapon' got started in popular media.
No one paid it much attention until the bans started.
The term survivalist became a dirty word in the late eighties for the same reason. Allowing someone else to define the word, is tantamount to allowing them to define the argument, in which case you lose. It was actually heartening for me to see so many bright individuals display an understanding of that concept in this thread.

[JPGreco]

I'll play;

Before I begin, I WILL DEFINE SURVIVALIST as to MY USE. It is in agreement with most here that a survivalist is a loose term to describe anyone who chooses to prepare for any kind of possible situation. From simply a few days without power to a zombie apocalypse. Within that segment would be sub groups defined by what they are planning to prepare for. I guess the easiest and quickest way to sub group them would be simple, intermediate, prepared, and extreme. Simple would classify as a few days without power or some other minor issue. Your home is not endangered and the local government is not breaking down, just maybe slow to respond (ie, Sandy, and the recent Nor' Easter/Blizzard in my area). Intermediate would be situations of longer term disruption or short term displacement from your home. Prepared would be classified as people who are prepared for extended periods of disruption or displacement. Extreme is preparing for the socio-economical breakdown of the US or zombies.

Basically it's grouped by very likely, likely, less likely, and unlikely.

My thoughts on your first post is that you impose the very small subgroup of extreme survivalists to all survivalists. Someone who is well versed in the outdoors and has a solid plan in place is not preparing for the zombie apocalypse.

Your first point is "when... (it) goes to far". Well first, who are you to judge someone else? You said why not use any stationary pole to practice tying knots. Ok, well tell me, how many stationary poles in your home resemble situations for lashes? How many stationary poles are easily accessible to practice basic knots on? Regardless of whether I agree with you on the matter of it being excessive or warranted, what I do know is not everyone is versed in knots and need more specific areas to practice on. I was a Boy Scout and practice many knots in the situation to use them. Prior to that, well, we practiced on poles we set up. Setting something up to improve on a skill is not going to far if you NEED it. Who are you to judge if its too much for someone else? I don't need a knot tying rig, but I would never judge someone else who may need one. If I were camping with friends and they wanted to learn knots, I would set up various situations for them to try different knots.

Your second point has to do with innovation. Since i don't know what life hack is, I can't comment. I will say innovation for the sake of innovation is never a good thing. If its not broke, why fix it? The majority of concepts survival come from situations where they were needed and succeeded. At least in ACTUAL situations, not zombies.

It's potentially dangerous. This point is actual irrelevant. You are guaranteed only 1 thing in life and that's death. I will agree that I could be killed by any number of things that are beyond my control, and that includes things that I may think are within my control. However, you never actually addressed WHY being into survivalism is actually potentially dangerous, all you did is point out other things that can kill me. All I can say to that is that everyone does things everyday to prolong their life. Do you eat, drink fluids, breathe? Yes, then you are actively prolonging your life. Well, if a hurricane rips through my area and reduces access to food and clean water and I want to actively prolong my life then I'm going to prepare. That's all there is to it. Unless you can point out WHY SPECIFIC aspects of being a survivalist is life threatening, its a moot point comparing preparation to uncontrollable things that could kill me. More importantly, if I'm prepared, I may save someone else's life, which I may have in my life because of what I had learned previously. At the very least, I prevented a very long and scary drive to a hospital and was able to treat the person on site. The ENTIRE point of being prepared is to increase your odds of surviving and helping others, if that's your belief, to survive by controlling the only thing you can, yourself. If you feel that to be an absurd statement, you do not understand the concept of survival and being prepared.

It attracts crazy people. Well, all i can say to that is so does politics, religion, sports fans, sports, video games, board games, card games, racing, land ownership, renting, work, play, love, hate, etc, etc, etc, etc... There are crazy people in every walk of life. There are also very knowledgeable, kind, generous, and loving people in those same walks of life. If you go looking for them, you'll find them, so all I can to this point is that it is also moot.

Now, since you never summed up your opinion, I can only assume, based upon your OP, that you feel being a survivalist means that you are eccentric crazy person, who has put their life in danger, and it's pointless; an exercise in futility. Please do not take this as a personal attack. I have based this upon the presentation of information in your first post. Since you offered no conclusion, I could only formulate my own from the info presented. If you feel otherwise, please, elaborate.

I believe preparing for any event that is within your scope of vision and ability to prepare for is never a bad thing, regardless of how severe of an event that is. As long as your actions aren't imposing on another's rights, you are well within yours to live your life as you see fit. Do I understand everyone I come across or even agree with them? Obviously no, but nobody ever said I had to. However, for the most part, the people here are all of a similar mind set. To be able to take care of yourself and loved ones without having to rely on outside assistance for whatever situation you for see, whether it be minor or major. Though the common thought process here is that preparing for a major will take care of most minors.

[Sarge47]

I'll play;

Before I begin, I WILL DEFINE SURVIVALIST as to MY USE. It is in agreement with most here that a survivalist is a loose term to describe anyone who chooses to prepare for any kind of possible situation. From simply a few days without power to a zombie apocalypse. Within that segment would be sub groups defined by what they are planning to prepare for. I guess the easiest and quickest way to sub group them would be simple, intermediate, prepared, and extreme. Simple would classify as a few days without power or some other minor issue. Your home is not endangered and the local government is not breaking down, just maybe slow to respond (ie, Sandy, and the recent Nor' Easter/Blizzard in my area). Intermediate would be situations of longer term disruption or short term displacement from your home. Prepared would be classified as people who are prepared for extended periods of disruption or displacement. Extreme is preparing for the socio-economical breakdown of the US or zombies.

Basically it's grouped by very likely, likely, less likely, and unlikely.

My thoughts on your first post is that you impose the very small subgroup of extreme survivalists to all survivalists. Someone who is well versed in the outdoors and has a solid plan in place is not preparing for the zombie apocalypse.

Your first point is "when... (it) goes to far". Well first, who are you to judge someone else? You said why not use any stationary pole to practice tying knots. Ok, well tell me, how many stationary poles in your home resemble situations for lashes? How many stationary poles are easily accessible to practice basic knots on? Regardless of whether I agree with you on the matter of it being excessive or warranted, what I do know is not everyone is versed in knots and need more specific areas to practice on. I was a Boy Scout and practice many knots in the situation to use them. Prior to that, well, we practiced on poles we set up. Setting something up to improve on a skill is not going to far if you NEED it. Who are you to judge if its too much for someone else? I don't need a knot tying rig, but I would never judge someone else who may need one. If I were camping with friends and they wanted to learn knots, I would set up various situations for them to try different knots.

Your second point has to do with innovation. Since i don't know what life hack is, I can't comment. I will say innovation for the sake of innovation is never a good thing. If its not broke, why fix it? The majority of concepts survival come from situations where they were needed and succeeded. At least in ACTUAL situations, not zombies.

It's potentially dangerous. This point is actual irrelevant. You are guaranteed only 1 thing in life and that's death. I will agree that I could be killed by any number of things that are beyond my control, and that includes things that I may think are within my control. However, you never actually addressed WHY being into survivalism is actually potentially dangerous, all you did is point out other things that can kill me. All I can say to that is that everyone does things everyday to prolong their life. Do you eat, drink fluids, breathe? Yes, then you are actively prolonging your life. Well, if a hurricane rips through my area and reduces access to food and clean water and I want to actively prolong my life then I'm going to prepare. That's all there is to it. Unless you can point out WHY SPECIFIC aspects of being a survivalist is life threatening, its a moot point comparing preparation to uncontrollable things that could kill me. More importantly, if I'm prepared, I may save someone else's life, which I may have in my life because of what I had learned previously. At the very least, I prevented a very long and scary drive to a hospital and was able to treat the person on site. The ENTIRE point of being prepared is to increase your odds of surviving and helping others, if that's your belief, to survive by controlling the only thing you can, yourself. If you feel that to be an absurd statement, you do not understand the concept of survival and being prepared.

It attracts crazy people. Well, all i can say to that is so does politics, religion, sports fans, sports, video games, board games, card games, racing, land ownership, renting, work, play, love, hate, etc, etc, etc, etc... There are crazy people in every walk of life. There are also very knowledgeable, kind, generous, and loving people in those same walks of life. If you go looking for them, you'll find them, so all I can to this point is that it is also moot.

Now, since you never summed up your opinion, I can only assume, based upon your OP, that you feel being a survivalist means that you are eccentric crazy person, who has put their life in danger, and it's pointless; an exercise in futility. Please do not take this as a personal attack. I have based this upon the presentation of information in your first post. Since you offered no conclusion, I could only formulate my own from the info presented. If you feel otherwise, please, elaborate.

I believe preparing for any event that is within your scope of vision and ability to prepare for is never a bad thing, regardless of how severe of an event that is. As long as your actions aren't imposing on another's rights, you are well within yours to live your life as you see fit. Do I understand everyone I come across or even agree with them? Obviously no, but nobody ever said I had to. However, for the most part, the people here are all of a similar mind set. To be able to take care of yourself and loved ones without having to rely on outside assistance for whatever situation you for see, whether it be minor or major. Though the common thought process here is that preparing for a major will take care of most minors.

Well, that was brief!...:innocent: But yeah, like JP says!....:sneaky2:

[JPGreco]

Well, that was brief!...:innocent: But yeah, like JP says!....:sneaky2:

Oh, I'm sorry, do you want me to elaborate? :smartass:

[BENESSE]

To understand what First Hunt is all about, you need to refresh your memory with his very first introductory post:


Hi, I'm from Australia and new to survivalism.
I document my experiments in self-reliance and minimalism and hope to learn heaps of interesting things while here which I can write about!
Cheers,
First Hunt

Then, you need to check out his blog where he pretty much regurgitates what he's read or talked to others about, never actually doing anything himself or speaking from personal experience. He opines on all sorts of topics, from fishing to bowhunting, tactical knives, you-name it.

Some of the gems in his own words:

"Yesterday I visited a nearby fishing shop to enquire about what are the first steps in getting into fishing if I wanted to begin as soon as possible. I was told three things:..."
It all seemed pretty simple and I could have began fishing yesterday at a local lake if I wanted to.
But, I didn’t."

"In my quest to become a proficient fisherman, I have come to realise the importance of a well-stocked tackle box. After some research I’ve come up with 9 tackle box essentials that will prepare the beginner fisherman for most situations."

"I came to the conclusion that there are far too many variables at play to come to a specific formula for whether it is optimal to fish at night. After discussing the matter on a fishing messageboard I can offer the following."

"As I progress towards my first real fishing trip, I am grasping the fact that I am going to have to make a few purchases, some that will require prior research. One such purchase is a knife, as I will obviously be butchering a variety of fish. Down the track I will be butchering larger animals as well which I have to keep in mind. One thing that overwhelmed me is the mention of tactical knives as opposed to hunting knives."

So...if FH wants to discuss "survivalist weirdos" (his words) maybe we should start with him.

[BENESSE]

The audacity: (from http://firsthunt.wordpress.com/about/)

"Eric is a twenty-two year old working in finance at one of the largest professional services firms in the world who decided that it was time to start being self-reliant. The generation Eric belongs to has been urbanised to the point that many could not last even a day in the wilderness. Because of this sad reality, Eric has taken it upon himself to experiment with self-reliance and minimalism. This will involve activities from hut construction to fishing to hunting to cooking. First Hunt strives to be as comprehensive as possible so that readers can learn and benefit from Eric’s experiences."

Wow, and wower.

[JPGreco]

Eh, I'm gonna roll with this for now as I don't really have anything else to do. We're still under quite a bit of snow with more coming. With all the snow melt on the roads, black ice is everywhere. If FH wants to have a civil discourse, I'm game.

[hunter63]

Well, we could all swear to God that the most useful hunting tool is the deer cinch......and see if shows up in print.

[Winter]

So, FH hasn't done any outdoor time? I had fished by the time I could walk, same with camping.

I feel like a lab rat for theoretical survivalism.

FH, If you are not too busy this weekend; go outside.

[Sarge47]

1st, just let me stress that FH has been very compliant when advised NOT to draw attention to his blog in his signature, however I'm not involved so I will advise that if you want to get into the head of the man check it out! He stated that he has no opinion on "survivalists...really? Go to his blog, scroll down and read the following entry:

"The Culture of Survivalists."

Pretty illuminating. Then read the entries on camping, fishing, and even the one on "hunting knives vs. tactical knives;" it's like a child's primer. With all of the really great books out there on the subjects he's trying to explain, why bother with a blog? He "over thinks" everything, and does "nothing" hands-on!" Look just how overstated his article on camping is. Seriously, he can learn a whole lot more in the Boy Scouts, even as an adult volunteer! I'm just guessing here but I believe that he got raked over the coals pretty badly at some of the other "survivalists" forums that he visited, and he's decided to do this for some obscure reason. FH, if you're reading this, this is not a put-down, but a serious attempt to understand you better.......:confused1:......:sailor:

[cwi555]

Well, we could all swear to God that the most useful hunting tool is the deer cinch......and see if shows up in print.

It wouldn't be the first time something like that has happened.

[Sarge47]

First Hunt...you want to know if we get any "extreme survivalists" on here; well check these out:

The Freaking Bear.(banned)

Howie Britan and the "Wall of God!" (and his big...Katana!)(banned)

Somebody named "spud" who had a compound named after him in Idaho.(banned)

Some guy named "something Poet" who wanted to be dropped off in an Island somewhere with only his LSD and wait five years for the people who left him there to come back and kill him.(banned)

Blade, who likes to slash peoples tires with a huge knife.(also banned.)

Once a week or so, several people, usually very young, who want to go live off the land, free and clear, and stay away from everybody in the world, but have to swallow their pride for awhile and ask us if we know of anyplace like that. In a very short time they also want to stay away from us for some strange reason!

There are more, but these are the ones I can remember...even though I've tried really hard to forget....:innocent:

I hope that answers your question......:sneaky2:

[Wildthang]

Just reading this post makes me want to go kill something, Oh, was that extreme:scared:

[hunter63]

I'll give him credit for wanting to learn something....but to try to pass that information as a blogger's new discovery, is pretty lame.

But y'all are correct, hard to do from the key board, First Hunt ....go out side.........You will be rewarded with a lot more than a vid', blog, book, or forum.

[kyratshooter]

Well, we have not had a reply from FH for 36 hours.

He was either shocked at the resistance he got here, is very busy making millions at the world leading financial institution that employs him, or he was distracted by some activity that was easier to do with no experience and only a computer keyboard to work with.

Something like brain surgery, auto repair, jet airplane maintainance or crochet.

After reading his blog I am made to wonder at the consistancy of one aspect of his work. People that refer to themselves in the third person often have difficulty accepting the rational thought of others.

It's just an observation I have made of life, and not putting anyone in a box filled with crazies.

Yea, right!

[Wildthang]

Well I think I will become a blogger and do blogs on people in other country's that do blogs about our country and don't have a freakin clue what they are talking about. Now, to be honest I am not sure I would know what I was talking about in doing these blogs, but after readings FH's blogs, It must not matter at all!
I now have a much dimmer view of blogs than before, and I may avoid all blogs in the future as a result:scared:

[BENESSE]

Once in a blue moon, we come across people like this at work who spend entirely too much time on the process but never actually deliver, much less on deadline. No one wants them on their team because they are not reliable, and in fact, slow everyone else down who depend on them doing their part. This type of worker is your worst nightmare, and if you're lucky, you can get them fired without too much PC red tape.

[hunter63]

Back in a previous life had to deal with lots of them.

We called them "churners", they get bogged down on minute details, over think, bring up possible disasters, rehash every thing, question every thing (my favorite cut them off at the knees was (leaned it from law and order), "Asked and answered....move on"...LOL and thought they were "busy"....didn't get anything done.....but looked busy.

Just about as bad a "box checkers"....only care about getting their boxes checked....

Unfortunately a stupid boss would think that they were "good performers"

[kyratshooter]

Well I think I will become a blogger and do blogs on people in other country's that do blogs about our country and don't have a freakin clue what they are talking about. Now, to be honest I am not sure I would know what I was talking about in doing these blogs, but after readings FH's blogs, It must not matter at all!
I now have a much dimmer view of blogs than before, and I may avoid all blogs in the future as a result:scared:

Has anyone noticed that these "bloggers" have become a focus of the modern media?

No knowledge, no skills, no clue, just a big mouth on a keyboard, but they are quoted and repeated and used to shape social policy.

If it's on the internet is has to be true, right?

[rebel]

There's no reason to talk about banning. If this thread doesn't interest you then don't post in it. If it doesn't interest anybody then the thread will die a quick death. Pretty simple stuff.

Your right, simple.

[kyratshooter]

Or we can tease the guy until he cries, spazes out and throws a fit!

[crashdive123]

He has been on and read the responses. I suspect he will move on to other pastures for his blog material.

[First Hunt]

I'm not going to respond to each comment.

I write articles that you may find rudimentary for the sake of note-taking (for myself) and for other people in my position. Some people enjoy reading this kind of material. Minutiae isn't for everyone, but if it isn't for you there is no need to knock it.

Yes, I go outside often (see paragraph 3) and can do all the basics, so don't let the blog posts deceive you into thinking I can't do anything. Also, I have no qualms with learning online and then practicing myself. I've done it with countless other things and its worked. I'm doing the same for this. I don't know why you've come to that conclusion. People learn differently.

If you have a problem with blogs of this kind, then I'm not the person to argue with about it. If you have a problem with blogs and media manipulation, then welcome to reality. It's called trading up the chain.

I have had plenty of outdoor time, but in the past I didn't really care about it. I was an enlisted cadet for 4 years, have been fishing plenty of times, hunted etc. but it pretty much went in one ear and out the other. Now I'm trying to actually learn this stuff so it sticks in my head.

Whoever talked about the irrationality of talking in third person, it's quite a common thing to do with colophons. Trust me, it's not a mark of insanity.

[Sarge47]

I'm not going to respond to each comment.

I write articles that you may find rudimentary for the sake of note-taking (for myself) and for other people in my position. Some people enjoy reading this kind of material. Minutiae isn't for everyone, but if it isn't for you there is no need to knock it.

Yes, I go outside often (see paragraph 3) and can do all the basics, so don't let the blog posts deceive you into thinking I can't do anything. Also, I have no qualms with learning online and then practicing myself. I've done it with countless other things and its worked. I'm doing the same for this. I don't know why you've come to that conclusion. People learn differently.

If you have a problem with blogs of this kind, then I'm not the person to argue with about it. If you have a problem with blogs and media manipulation, then welcome to reality. It's called trading up the chain.

I have had plenty of outdoor time, but in the past I didn't really care about it. I was an enlisted cadet for 4 years, have been fishing plenty of times, hunted etc. but it pretty much went in one ear and out the other. Now I'm trying to actually learn this stuff so it sticks in my head.

Whoever talked about the irrationality of talking in third person, it's quite a common thing to do with colophons. Trust me, it's not a mark of insanity.

Welcome back..........:sailor:

[JPGreco]

I'm not going to respond to each comment.

I write articles that you may find rudimentary for the sake of note-taking (for myself) and for other people in my position. Some people enjoy reading this kind of material. Minutiae isn't for everyone, but if it isn't for you there is no need to knock it.

Yes, I go outside often (see paragraph 3) and can do all the basics, so don't let the blog posts deceive you into thinking I can't do anything. Also, I have no qualms with learning online and then practicing myself. I've done it with countless other things and its worked. I'm doing the same for this. I don't know why you've come to that conclusion. People learn differently.

If you have a problem with blogs of this kind, then I'm not the person to argue with about it. If you have a problem with blogs and media manipulation, then welcome to reality. It's called trading up the chain.

I have had plenty of outdoor time, but in the past I didn't really care about it. I was an enlisted cadet for 4 years, have been fishing plenty of times, hunted etc. but it pretty much went in one ear and out the other. Now I'm trying to actually learn this stuff so it sticks in my head.

Whoever talked about the irrationality of talking in third person, it's quite a common thing to do with colophons. Trust me, it's not a mark of insanity.

If we've come to any incorrect conclusion then its due to the way you've presented yourself. A good example is the fishing. You posted/blogged about going to a store and asking questions about a beginner fisherman and what they should have in a tackle box, etc, etc. You presented questions about when and where to fish, but you never mentioned anything about the degree of experience you have with fishing. Surely you can see how this would lead us to the conclusions we've come to. More or less the other topics were presented in the same way. As a novice looking in, not an experienced individual looking at it from the outside.

[First Hunt]

If we've come to any incorrect conclusion then its due to the way you've presented yourself. A good example is the fishing. You posted/blogged about going to a store and asking questions about a beginner fisherman and what they should have in a tackle box, etc, etc. You presented questions about when and where to fish, but you never mentioned anything about the degree of experience you have with fishing. Surely you can see how this would lead us to the conclusions we've come to. More or less the other topics were presented in the same way. As a novice looking in, not an experienced individual looking at it from the outside.
I have experience but I still don't consider myself experienced per se as a lot of what I learnt I didn't hold onto. Now I'm trying to learn for myself rather than have it forced upon me as it has been in the past.

Anyway, this thread is a bit ridiculous now.

[Sarge47]

I have experience but I still don't consider myself experienced per se as a lot of what I learnt I didn't hold onto. Now I'm trying to learn for myself rather than have it forced upon me as it has been in the past.

Anyway, this thread is a bit ridiculous now.

When you 1st came on here you were directing readers to your blog. I had to delete the reference, remember? If you didn't want people to read it, then you wouldn't have done that...and if you didn't mean to invite criticism, either negative or positive, you wouldn't have posted it at all! It was obviously meant to be read by whoever read your signature, and as you also have a place on your blog site for comments, you were inviting remarks. You can't have it both ways. This thread is in response to the question you raised in your opening post and has come about as a result of that. Like I always say, if you don't want criticism then remain silent. If you don't want to take the chance on negative remarks/answers, then don't ask the question. There is never a guarantee that it'll go your way. You pays your money and you takes your chances......:ohmy:

[finallyME]

Anyway, this thread is a bit ridiculous now.

It started out ridiculous. Let's recap:
You started by saying:
"you all are a bunch of crazies.........Let's discuss you being crazy."
Then you thought there would actually be a meaningful discussion. Of course, all you did afterwards was ignore those who disagreed.

I am curious though....Do you still beat your wife?

[Sarge47]

Here's the thing about your blog, you claim it's for you to help you learn, right? So let's just look at the entry "Tackle Box." Under "Things you Need" you post "Hooks." Really? You had to write that down? Were you afraid you'd forget? What KIND of hooks? Crappie? Blue Gill? Bass? Catfish? Marlin? Bait-keepers? Fly-tying hooks? Bent eye or straight? Double or Treble? What size of hook will you need? 2, 4, 6, 8, ??? So I don't believe you. I think you need to re-evaluate your situation.................:sailor:

[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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инфо (http://partfamily.ru)инфо (http://partialmajorant.ru)инфо (http://quadrupleworm.ru)инфо (http://qualitybooster.ru)инфо (http://quasimoney.ru)инфо (http://quenchedspark.ru)инфо (http://quodrecuperet.ru)инфо (http://rabbetledge.ru)инфо (http://radialchaser.ru)инфо (http://radiationestimator.ru)инфо (http://railwaybridge.ru)инфо (http://randomcoloration.ru)инфо (http://rapidgrowth.ru)инфо (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru)инфо (http://reachthroughregion.ru)
инфо (http://readingmagnifier.ru)инфо (http://rearchain.ru)инфо (http://recessioncone.ru)инфо (http://recordedassignment.ru)инфо (http://rectifiersubstation.ru)инфо (http://redemptionvalue.ru)инфо (http://reducingflange.ru)инфо (http://referenceantigen.ru)инфо (http://regeneratedprotein.ru)инфо (http://reinvestmentplan.ru)инфо (http://safedrilling.ru)инфо (http://sagprofile.ru)инфо (http://salestypelease.ru)инфо (http://samplinginterval.ru)инфо (http://satellitehydrology.ru)
инфо (http://scarcecommodity.ru)инфо (http://scrapermat.ru)инфо (http://screwingunit.ru)инфо (http://seawaterpump.ru)инфо (http://secondaryblock.ru)инфо (http://secularclergy.ru)инфо (http://seismicefficiency.ru)инфо (http://selectivediffuser.ru)инфо (http://semiasphalticflux.ru)инфо (http://semifinishmachining.ru)инфо (http://spicetrade.ru)инфо (http://spysale.ru)инфо (http://stungun.ru)инфо (http://tacticaldiameter.ru)инфо (http://tailstockcenter.ru)
инфо (http://tamecurve.ru)инфо (http://tapecorrection.ru)инфо (http://tappingchuck.ru)инфо (http://taskreasoning.ru)инфо (http://technicalgrade.ru)инфо (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)инфо (http://telescopicdamper.ru)инфо (http://temperateclimate.ru)инфо (http://temperedmeasure.ru)инфо (http://tenementbuilding.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)инфо (http://ultramaficrock.ru)инфо (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)

[yellowcab]

Well (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/10268)488.1 (http://cottagenet.ru/plan/572)PERF (http://eyesvision.ru/eyesight/5)Repr (http://eyesvisions.com)реда (http://factoringfee.ru/t/1110169)XVII (http://filmzones.ru/t/832147)Лютф (http://gadwall.ru/t/807698)Snoo (http://gaffertape.ru/t/862607)Take (http://gageboard.ru/t/902638)Bobb (http://gagrule.ru/t/769204)Майн (http://gallduct.ru/t/994766)Шами (http://galvanometric.ru/t/668980)Тули (http://gangforeman.ru/t/831122)Петр (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/1047286)NX04 (http://garbagechute.ru/t/1143484)
Anni (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/834721)S900 (http://gascautery.ru/t/1143104)Вели (http://gashbucket.ru/t/473320)Левк (http://gasreturn.ru/t/1045075)рамк (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/568363)тро� (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/1160803)теат (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/1152073)Deko (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/918778)Куни (http://geartreating.ru/t/837944)отли (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/814654)�тих (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/762782)Jane (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/674920)Павл (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/767856)XVII (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/813379)Pasq (http://getthebounce.ru/t/337090)
Иван (http://habeascorpus.ru/t/855219)Gree (http://habituate.ru/t/1089209)Leon (http://hackedbolt.ru/t/655050)Соде (http://hackworker.ru/t/1050671)Acti (http://hadronicannihilation.ru/t/1071970)руÑ�Ñ� (http://haemagglutinin.ru/t/1045033)Курп (http://hailsquall.ru/t/672752)Соде (http://hairysphere.ru/t/670282)Dail (http://halforderfringe.ru/t/571053)Сиби (http://halfsiblings.ru/t/758931)Ange (http://hallofresidence.ru/t/569524)кома (http://haltstate.ru/t/655278)Gree (http://handcoding.ru/t/862676)Ð*оÑ�Ñ� (http://handportedhead.ru/t/1028882)Korr (http://handradar.ru/t/563173)
и�то (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/658679)фото (http://hangonpart.ru/t/806147)Gimm (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/565973)Matr (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/566011)Nigh (http://hardasiron.ru/t/567351)Lycr (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/567853)прив (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/620591)�вто (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/296958)Afte (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/623360)Tsch (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/811066)Зели (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/478725)Лени (http://headregulator.ru/t/817925)Ross (http://heartofgold.ru/t/1230233)Craz (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/557359)Кра� (http://heatinggas.ru/t/1183501)
Узун (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/940594)brow (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/603974)Воро (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/607421)Щегл (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/655392)Niki (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/606022)Vict (http://jobstress.ru/t/605981)теат (http://jogformation.ru/t/639114)импе (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/934382)Joli (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/1142519)Джан (http://journallubricator.ru/t/820751)Е�по (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/830380)(Ев� (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/1044835)Перв (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/891234)Попо (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/839239)Штол (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/837248)
Петр (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/812539)Rond (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/611073)музы (http://kentishglory.ru/t/1002647)Ð�лег (http://kerbweight.ru/t/847706)Swar (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/607505)Ð*оÑ�Ñ� (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/610037)Клим (http://keyserum.ru/t/1060291)чаÑ�Ñ‚ (http://kickplate.ru/t/671222)Juli (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/781616)Swar (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/607469)иÑ�то (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/616734)чуде (http://kinozones.ru/film/10268)Сопе (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/663032)00-8 (http://kneejoint.ru/t/606616)Modo (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/1026531)
Zone (http://knockonatom.ru/t/608860)Dave (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/664683)�коп (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/679359)Zone (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/1193576)XVII (http://laborracket.ru/t/768991)Greg (http://labourearnings.ru/t/1073178)Zolt (http://labourleasing.ru/t/898849)Love (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/1094021)ABYX (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/1187642)Губе (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/1045083)Zone (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/1186051)�рха (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/1021752)�ндр (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/832776)Gilb (http://laggingload.ru/t/849275)репр (http://laissezaller.ru/t/1044599)
Rafa (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/845718)Сели (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/857101)Иллю (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/853458)Б800 (http://lamphouse.ru/t/1184229)XVII (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/846339)Заве (http://lancingdie.ru/t/833343)Заха (http://landingdoor.ru/t/832904)БП25 (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/1183943)конц (http://landreform.ru/t/1083114)Eric (http://landuseratio.ru/t/974359)Zone (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/1190277)хоро (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1827009)обыч (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/1782474)TRAS (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/1669)Moll (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/1030515)

[yellowcab]

Ulit (http://laterevent.ru/shop/154404)Nard (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/453023)INTE (http://layabout.ru/shop/601304)Book (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/1327437)Saba (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/465010)Бори (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/794571)Ñ�ерт (http://leaveword.ru/shop/1151552)9500 (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/447096)7868 (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/862050)4105 (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/858802)Creo (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/574783)Ð*азм (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/788968)9099 (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/1151762)RENA (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/613930)впиÑ� (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/1175861)
Лени (http://manualchoke.ru/shop/1545141)а�пи (http://medinfobooks.ru/book/194)Fren (http://mp3lists.ru/item/10268)Мак� (http://nameresolution.ru/shop/1532929)кра� (http://naphtheneseries.ru/shop/1033977)Love (http://narrowmouthed.ru/shop/462983)кото (http://nationalcensus.ru/shop/1206860)Coto (http://naturalfunctor.ru/shop/1031322)магн (http://navelseed.ru/shop/454337)�кла (http://neatplaster.ru/shop/466754)Wind (http://necroticcaries.ru/shop/186290)Linu (http://negativefibration.ru/shop/652494)Powe (http://neighbouringrights.ru/shop/653320)ли�т (http://objectmodule.ru/shop/471945)Vite (http://observationballoon.ru/shop/12520)
Sony (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/1032672)Repo (http://oceanmining.ru/shop/570569)Plan (http://octupolephonon.ru/shop/1149752)ЛитÐ* (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/1153090)ЛитÐ* (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/1254582)Eric (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/288308)Лапу (http://onesticket.ru/shop/584186)Good (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/585385)ЛитÐ* (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/689622)Gary (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/690523)Евна (http://palmberry.ru/shop/956395)любо (http://papercoating.ru/shop/682845)выну (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/1066776)Верл (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1708850)прир (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1177047)
Лаху (http://partfamily.ru/shop/1384591)Фару (http://partialmajorant.ru/shop/1499150)Стал (http://quadrupleworm.ru/shop/1545435)Джиг (http://qualitybooster.ru/shop/1690716)Чирк (http://quasimoney.ru/shop/668131)Thom (http://quenchedspark.ru/shop/913568)Сове (http://quodrecuperet.ru/shop/1209360)Ткач (http://rabbetledge.ru/shop/1430519)Jewe (http://radialchaser.ru/shop/1488946)Graa (http://radiationestimator.ru/shop/517627)ВДМа (http://railwaybridge.ru/shop/884343)Medi (http://randomcoloration.ru/shop/933113)Dima (http://rapidgrowth.ru/shop/1078778)Mope (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru/shop/1401491)Demi (http://reachthroughregion.ru/shop/1557558)
Suza (http://readingmagnifier.ru/shop/557905)звен (http://rearchain.ru/shop/879892)дока (http://recessioncone.ru/shop/921986)Воло (http://recordedassignment.ru/shop/1654901)Хайн (http://rectifiersubstation.ru/shop/1662252)Bria (http://redemptionvalue.ru/shop/1668290)Елиф (http://reducingflange.ru/shop/1689842)Соко (http://referenceantigen.ru/shop/1714230)Vamp (http://regeneratedprotein.ru/shop/1773694)отве (http://reinvestmentplan.ru/shop/1784269)�ико (http://safedrilling.ru/shop/1822842)Мои� (http://sagprofile.ru/shop/1828828)Dean (http://salestypelease.ru/shop/1856170)Jacq (http://samplinginterval.ru/shop/1881864)Rise (http://satellitehydrology.ru/shop/1918633)
Иллю (http://scarcecommodity.ru/shop/1931578)погу (http://scrapermat.ru/shop/1950329)Alic (http://screwingunit.ru/shop/1963960)Gibb (http://seawaterpump.ru/shop/1973493)ISBN (http://secondaryblock.ru/shop/1462951)Жуле (http://secularclergy.ru/shop/1498070)Тов� (http://seismicefficiency.ru/shop/1581937)ча�о (http://selectivediffuser.ru/shop/1653864)выпу (http://semiasphalticflux.ru/shop/1679808)Тата (http://semifinishmachining.ru/shop/1695966)TRAS (http://spicetrade.ru/spice_zakaz/1669)TRAS (http://spysale.ru/spy_zakaz/1669)TRAS (http://stungun.ru/stun_zakaz/1669)нача (http://tacticaldiameter.ru/shop/487962)Яков (http://tailstockcenter.ru/shop/1764643)
Jans (http://tamecurve.ru/shop/1773267)Сурм (http://tapecorrection.ru/shop/1776499)Need (http://tappingchuck.ru/shop/492095)51-6 (http://taskreasoning.ru/shop/505613)wwwb (http://technicalgrade.ru/shop/1855677)Ерем (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru/shop/1901844)раÑ�Ñ� (http://telescopicdamper.ru/shop/1964032)Кули (http://temperateclimate.ru/shop/885482)Дриб (http://temperedmeasure.ru/shop/927214)англ (http://tenementbuilding.ru/shop/986193)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)Ð*умы (http://ultramaficrock.ru/shop/987322)Ð�епр (http://ultraviolettesting.ru/shop/488419)

[yellowcab]

geartreating.ru (http://geartreating.ru)hadronicannihilation.ru (http://hadronicannihilation.ru)getintoaflap.ru (http://getintoaflap.ru)gashbucket.ru (http://gashbucket.ru)scarcecommodity.ru (http://scarcecommodity.ru)kerrrotation.ru (http://kerrrotation.ru)hailsquall.ru (http://hailsquall.ru)heavydutymetalcutting.ru (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru)hazardousatmosphere.ru (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru)mammasdarling.ru (http://mammasdarling.ru)heatageingresistance.ru (http://heatageingresistance.ru)laborracket.ru (http://laborracket.ru)kaposidisease.ru (http://kaposidisease.ru)landuseratio.ru (http://landuseratio.ru)offlinesystem.ru (http://offlinesystem.ru)
lacingcourse.ru (http://lacingcourse.ru)semiasphalticflux.ru (http://semiasphalticflux.ru)packedspheres.ru (http://packedspheres.ru)neatplaster.ru (http://neatplaster.ru)gaussianfilter.ru (http://gaussianfilter.ru)secularclergy.ru (http://secularclergy.ru)hardasiron.ru (http://hardasiron.ru)kleinbottle.ru (http://kleinbottle.ru)cottagenet.ru (http://cottagenet.ru)laminatedmaterial.ru (http://laminatedmaterial.ru)selectivediffuser.ru (http://selectivediffuser.ru)papercoating.ru (http://papercoating.ru)objectmodule.ru (http://objectmodule.ru)jobstress.ru (http://jobstress.ru)getthebounce.ru (http://getthebounce.ru)
gardeningleave.ru (http://gardeningleave.ru)olibanumresinoid.ru (http://olibanumresinoid.ru)temperedmeasure.ru (http://temperedmeasure.ru)readingmagnifier.ru (http://readingmagnifier.ru)quasimoney.ru (http://quasimoney.ru)reachthroughregion.ru (http://reachthroughregion.ru)haphazardwinding.ru (http://haphazardwinding.ru)hangonpart.ru (http://hangonpart.ru)eyesvision.ru (http://eyesvision.ru)naturalfunctor.ru (http://naturalfunctor.ru)landmarksensor.ru (http://landmarksensor.ru)knifesethouse.ru (http://knifesethouse.ru)heartofgold.ru (http://heartofgold.ru)satellitehydrology.ru (http://satellitehydrology.ru)gasreturn.ru (http://gasreturn.ru)
radialchaser.ru (http://radialchaser.ru)quadrupleworm.ru (http://quadrupleworm.ru)lactogenicfactor.ru (http://lactogenicfactor.ru)haltstate.ru (http://haltstate.ru)rabbetledge.ru (http://rabbetledge.ru)latrinesergeant.ru (http://latrinesergeant.ru)juicecatcher.ru (http://juicecatcher.ru)lacrimalpoint.ru (http://lacrimalpoint.ru)jogformation.ru (http://jogformation.ru)magneticequator.ru (http://magneticequator.ru)haemagglutinin.ru (http://haemagglutinin.ru)sagprofile.ru (http://sagprofile.ru)hatchholddown.ru (http://hatchholddown.ru)samplinginterval.ru (http://samplinginterval.ru)galvanometric.ru (http://galvanometric.ru)
seawaterpump.ru (http://seawaterpump.ru)laserpulse.ru (http://laserpulse.ru)spysale.ru (http://spysale.ru)rattlesnakemaster.ru (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru)labourleasing.ru (http://labourleasing.ru)safedrilling.ru (http://safedrilling.ru)screwingunit.ru (http://screwingunit.ru)gaffertape.ru (http://gaffertape.ru)oceanmining.ru (http://oceanmining.ru)nationalcensus.ru (http://nationalcensus.ru)keyserum.ru (http://keyserum.ru)laterevent.ru (http://laterevent.ru)journallubricator.ru (http://journallubricator.ru)gageboard.ru (http://gageboard.ru)haveafinetime.ru (http://haveafinetime.ru)
tapecorrection.ru (http://tapecorrection.ru)railwaybridge.ru (http://railwaybridge.ru)secondaryblock.ru (http://secondaryblock.ru)layabout.ru (http://layabout.ru)landreform.ru (http://landreform.ru)taskreasoning.ru (http://taskreasoning.ru)nameresolution.ru (http://nameresolution.ru)radiationestimator.ru (http://radiationestimator.ru)knowledgestate.ru (http://knowledgestate.ru)justiciablehomicide.ru (http://justiciablehomicide.ru)halforderfringe.ru (http://halforderfringe.ru)tappingchuck.ru (http://tappingchuck.ru)gangforeman.ru (http://gangforeman.ru)manualchoke.ru (http://manualchoke.ru)knockonatom.ru (http://knockonatom.ru)
gagrule.ru (http://gagrule.ru)ladletreatediron.ru (http://ladletreatediron.ru)gatedsweep.ru (http://gatedsweep.ru)geophysicalprobe.ru (http://geophysicalprobe.ru)languagelaboratory.ru (http://languagelaboratory.ru)keymanassurance.ru (http://keymanassurance.ru)qualitybooster.ru (http://qualitybooster.ru)necroticcaries.ru (http://necroticcaries.ru)rearchain.ru (http://rearchain.ru)largeheart.ru (http://largeheart.ru)handcoding.ru (http://handcoding.ru)hardenedconcrete.ru (http://hardenedconcrete.ru)gaugemodel.ru (http://gaugemodel.ru)rapidgrowth.ru (http://rapidgrowth.ru)lammasshoot.ru (http://lammasshoot.ru)
kentishglory.ru (http://kentishglory.ru)gallduct.ru (http://gallduct.ru)medinfobooks.ru (http://medinfobooks.ru)harmonicinteraction.ru (http://harmonicinteraction.ru)majorconcern.ru (http://majorconcern.ru)handradar.ru (http://handradar.ru)hardalloyteeth.ru (http://hardalloyteeth.ru)jibtypecrane.ru (http://jibtypecrane.ru)laggingload.ru (http://laggingload.ru)offsetholder.ru (http://offsetholder.ru)kneejoint.ru (http://kneejoint.ru)scrapermat.ru (http://scrapermat.ru)habituate.ru (http://habituate.ru)jointsealingmaterial.ru (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru)octupolephonon.ru (http://octupolephonon.ru)

[yellowcab]

negativefibration.ru (http://negativefibration.ru)keepsmthinhand.ru (http://keepsmthinhand.ru)obstructivepatent.ru (http://obstructivepatent.ru)factoringfee.ru (http://factoringfee.ru)learningcurve.ru (http://learningcurve.ru)salestypelease.ru (http://salestypelease.ru)observationballoon.ru (http://observationballoon.ru)laissezaller.ru (http://laissezaller.ru)referenceantigen.ru (http://referenceantigen.ru)telescopicdamper.ru (http://telescopicdamper.ru)labeledgraph.ru (http://labeledgraph.ru)geriatricnurse.ru (http://geriatricnurse.ru)killthefattedcalf.ru (http://killthefattedcalf.ru)rectifiersubstation.ru (http://rectifiersubstation.ru)leadingfirm.ru (http://leadingfirm.ru)
filmzones.ru (http://filmzones.ru)naphtheneseries.ru (http://naphtheneseries.ru)gangwayplatform.ru (http://gangwayplatform.ru)temperateclimate.ru (http://temperateclimate.ru)gascautery.ru (http://gascautery.ru)randomcoloration.ru (http://randomcoloration.ru)leadcoating.ru (http://leadcoating.ru)managerialstaff.ru (http://managerialstaff.ru)lambdatransition.ru (http://lambdatransition.ru)halfsiblings.ru (http://halfsiblings.ru)navelseed.ru (http://navelseed.ru)narrowmouthed.ru (http://narrowmouthed.ru)audiobookkeeper.ru (http://audiobookkeeper.ru)machinesensible.ru (http://machinesensible.ru)neighbouringrights.ru (http://neighbouringrights.ru)
tenementbuilding.ru (http://tenementbuilding.ru)quodrecuperet.ru (http://quodrecuperet.ru)recordedassignment.ru (http://recordedassignment.ru)leaveword.ru (http://leaveword.ru)partialmajorant.ru (http://partialmajorant.ru)reinvestmentplan.ru (http://reinvestmentplan.ru)recessioncone.ru (http://recessioncone.ru)parasolmonoplane.ru (http://parasolmonoplane.ru)laburnumtree.ru (http://laburnumtree.ru)telangiectaticlipoma.ru (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)redemptionvalue.ru (http://redemptionvalue.ru)paraconvexgroup.ru (http://paraconvexgroup.ru)habeascorpus.ru (http://habeascorpus.ru)heatinggas.ru (http://heatinggas.ru)magnetotelluricfield.ru (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru)
generalprovisions.ru (http://generalprovisions.ru)parkingbrake.ru (http://parkingbrake.ru)juxtapositiontwin.ru (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru)hartlaubgoose.ru (http://hartlaubgoose.ru)gadwall.ru (http://gadwall.ru)labourearnings.ru (http://labourearnings.ru)handportedhead.ru (http://handportedhead.ru)hackedbolt.ru (http://hackedbolt.ru)lamphouse.ru (http://lamphouse.ru)stungun.ru (http://stungun.ru)quenchedspark.ru (http://quenchedspark.ru)japanesecedar.ru (http://japanesecedar.ru)hairysphere.ru (http://hairysphere.ru)laserlens.ru (http://laserlens.ru)kilowattsecond.ru (http://kilowattsecond.ru)
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