Rich preppers

[Wildthang]

I got in a discussion the other day with a guy I work with on prepping. This guy is rich, I don't even know why he works because he sure doesn't have to. He is constantly buying new expensive toys, and lives in a 5000 sq foot designer home. I make good money and have no complaints about the money I make, but I still feel the need to watch my spending, but this guy can literally buy anyhting he wants.
So as we were discussing prepping, he casually told me that he figures he has a huge advantage over the average prepper because he has 3 years worth of food on hand, thousands upon thousands of rounds of ammunition, hundreds of gallons of water, on and on and on.
So after listening to his full on bragging for a while, I ask him this. If a tornadoe or earthquake wiped out your extensive stash of preps, and you were left homeless, no access to money, and had to survive with only basic camping tools and supplys, could you survive? He looked puzzled and begin telling me that his preps will never get destroyed, and he will always have access to money, so surviving with basic stuff would never happen to him..................no way.
I went on to tell him that all of his stuff could be taken away by any number of people, by natural disaster, and money could decline to a useless value, and my opinion is that no matter how rich you are, you can still be vulnerable. He thought I was absolutely out of my mind!
So I ended the conversation with, well if the Chit ever hits the fan, and you lose all of your oh so valuable assets, I will come over and check on you and see how you fair because once your preps have been stolen, and your money is worth nothing, you will not have a clue how to survive, and I want to see how you are doing at that point.
I told him that skills will last forever, and assets can go away instantly, so you better be spending some of your money on survival training and less on dehydrated food because when the food runs out, you are going to be up a creek.
The guy basically just laughed at me like I was an idiot as I walked away, but I did turn around and tell him that when he was starving and freezing, don't come my way begging for anything because I will only laugh at you!
This was the first in depth conversation I have ever had with this guy and will probably be the last! How anybody thinks money is the total key to survival is beyond me! After talking to this guy, I am beginning to think that lots of money could be a deficit to survival for people like this guy.

[Jimmyq]

I think his boasting will make him a big target should the need arise. You can have all the ammo you want but you only have two trigger fingers if your place gets rushed ;-)

[Cast-Iron]

Interesting story. The sad thing is we are a few generations removed from the people that used "survival" skills in their everyday lives. Long before the age of the auto, internet and electrification, most folks were a lot more hands-on with where their next meal came from. Today we live in an era where enough money can resolve just about any problem. But when folks begin to grasp the repercussions of quantitative easing or of fiat currency for that matter, what will it do to the perceived value of the dollar?
Money only expedites commerce. Imagine having to lug around something like chickens everytime you wanted to barter for something. The problem lies when there isn't an underlying asset backing the money supply. Will our dollar collapse? I don't know, but I'm not seeing anything which gives me much hope for a different outcome. If you want to rely on money for such a scenario why not have some of your assets in precious metals? The historical value of silver and gold coinage goes back for centuries. But it is still a poor substitute for knowledge and experience.

[Seniorman]

WILDTHANG - "... After talking to this guy, I am beginning to think that lots of money could be a deficit to survival for people like this guy."

True, "... for people like this guy."

Conversely, a very wealthy person who is aware of the importance of understanding what might happen in various scenarios, and uses his money not only to buy the proper highest quality "stuff," but to go to some good survival skills schools, etc., and then practice, is not going to be disadvantaged.

For example, I have a friend who was a LRRP/Recondo, 101st Div., Abn., who served in Vietnam. After he was discharged from the Army, he used his GI Bill to go to college where he got a degree in Electrical Engineering. He started a tiny electric supplies and consultation firm in southern Calif., and eventually built it into a mega-million $$$ concern.

A number of years ago, he became very worried about where our country and economy were headed. He sold his company for gigantic $$$, bought a remote acreage in s.w. Colorado, and built a spacious, very modern type home, but with many, many "refinements" most homeowners never dream of... unless they think in terms of SHTF.

Aside from all the highest quality "stuff" he has, he and his family go "long range" hiking and camping, hunting, fishing, etc., plus he and they attend various "schools" for both shooting, and survival "how to" courses. They practice their skills.

One of the things he's done is attend, with his family, a school where high speed driving and evading "highway bandits" is taught.

The last time I talked with him he said, "I've seen the worst of the worst of what can happen in a very bad situtation. I do not want that to happen here, but you never know, the way things are going these days. Hopefully, it won't happen, but if it does, I want my family and me to have a chance to get through it."

So, a man with his mind set and grasp on just what might happen, along with a boxcar full of of money, definitely has a hand up.

Of course, there are many with tons of $$$ who, as you mentioned, just figure that a lot of goods is all they need, and skills are for the"worker peasants."

[Echo2]

I'm in the process of helping a very wealthy fellow with his prepping needs.

If they develop the correct mind set....money makes the acquisition of preps easy.

They are taking many classes and training seminars....money also helps with that....:)

[Sarge47]

I got in a discussion the other day with a guy I work with on prepping. This guy is rich, I don't even know why he works because he sure doesn't have to. He is constantly buying new expensive toys, and lives in a 5000 sq foot designer home. I make good money and have no complaints about the money I make, but I still feel the need to watch my spending, but this guy can literally buy anyhting he wants.
So as we were discussing prepping, he casually told me that he figures he has a huge advantage over the average prepper because he has 3 years worth of food on hand, thousands upon thousands of rounds of ammunition, hundreds of gallons of water, on and on and on.
So after listening to his full on bragging for a while, I ask him this. If a tornadoe or earthquake wiped out your extensive stash of preps, and you were left homeless, no access to money, and had to survive with only basic camping tools and supplys, could you survive? He looked puzzled and begin telling me that his preps will never get destroyed, and he will always have access to money, so surviving with basic stuff would never happen to him..................no way.
I went on to tell him that all of his stuff could be taken away by any number of people, by natural disaster, and money could decline to a useless value, and my opinion is that no matter how rich you are, you can still be vulnerable. He thought I was absolutely out of my mind!
So I ended the conversation with, well if the Chit ever hits the fan, and you lose all of your oh so valuable assets, I will come over and check on you and see how you fair because once your preps have been stolen, and your money is worth nothing, you will not have a clue how to survive, and I want to see how you are doing at that point.
I told him that skills will last forever, and assets can go away instantly, so you better be spending some of your money on survival training and less on dehydrated food because when the food runs out, you are going to be up a creek.
The guy basically just laughed at me like I was an idiot as I walked away, but I did turn around and tell him that when he was starving and freezing, don't come my way begging for anything because I will only laugh at you!
This was the first in depth conversation I have ever had with this guy and will probably be the last! How anybody thinks money is the total key to survival is beyond me! After talking to this guy, I am beginning to think that lots of money could be a deficit to survival for people like this guy.
Several remarks come to mind:

"You can't fix STUPID!"

"You can't argue with STUPIDITY!"

And,

"You can't tell a fool anything, but a word to the wise is sufficient."

I guess that with all of his money he didn't invest any in brains. Reminds me of a mild debate I had with my kid brother some years back. I was advising him to learn about how to use a compass and map but he said that he had it all covered with his cell phone & GPS! He's really a great guy but was putting his trust in technology instead of himself! I would ask your rich co-worker just how safe the thinks he is now that he's blabbing to the world about all of his preps! Oh well.....:1:

[ClayPick]

My idea of rich has little to do with money but from what I have seen the people with lots of coin are more than ready. It’s common around here for well heeled European families to have stunning properties and spend next to no time at them but have them perfectly maintained. Their families know what a hell hole a war zone is. It sure takes bug out place to a new level.

[hunter63]

Wildthang, what's his address?

[cwi555]

"Rich" is a relative term to begin with. Ten dollars, ten million, ten billion, none of it makes you rich IMHO.
I consider myself fortunate to have done alright financially, but none of it would matter without knowledge. With Knowledge, I can create money, build a house, smelt steel, cast steel and other metals, start a fire, make coke for the smelter, grow food, make a bow, and thousands of other task necessary for not only survival but thriving.
Financial wealth cannot be carried to the grave, but a clean soul free of greed can.

[Winter]

I could easily drop $500,000 on preps. New home designed for SHTF. 20 yr food supply. Better water system. generators and fuel storage. Two indentical trucks with all necessary parts and a dedicated shop to work on them.

Wait, thats closer to $1 mill.

[BENESSE]

First of all, WT, your acquaintance is an insecure looser. Yeah, he's got money, but what smart person talks about it the way he does? There's a major personality flaw there.

This is how I see it, especially WTSHTF.
(let's assume the common denominator is they aren't morons)

#1--(Home Run): Skills & Money
#2--Skills only
#3--Money only
# 4--(get right with the Lord) No Skills & No Money

[Power Giant]

I am not trolling when I say this: you sound like you have a bone to pick with him because he is rich- like you resent him for that reason. No mention was made as to his training. For all we know, from your monologue, he could be completely trained already. We also don't know if he has other bugout locations that are stocked, etc. There are always two sides to every story.

[Stiffy]

First of all, WT, your acquaintance is an insecure looser. Yeah, he's got money, but what smart person talks about it the way he does? There's a major personality flaw there.

This is how I see it, especially WTSHTF.
(let's assume the common denominator is they aren't morons)

#1--(Home Run): Skills & Money
#2--Skills only
#3--Money only
# 4--(get right with the Lord) No Skills & No Money

# 5 -- Lots of money and the dangerous delusion that money can buy your way out of any trouble that pops up.

[Geek]

I think you all are being a bit hard on the guy. He is smart enough to be prepping at all, which puts him ahead of most people, albeit he hasn't considered any sort of bug out scenario, or the possibility of being overrun. The comments Wildthang made may be enough to get him to start considering alternate scenarios. The best bet would be for this guy to be part of a group. Assuming he is willing to work with some others he has the resources to be quite helpful in his own way.

[GreatUsername]

While I think that skills won't make up for having more guns than someone else, pretty much all other physical assets are inferior to skills, because with skills you can acquire or replace assets. Guns I consider separate from that because it's pretty impossible to replace a gun just through knowledge without having the tools and materials necessary to do so. In all honesty though, the reason to have guns in quantity is to cache them in multiple locations. If you have dozens of guns in one place, all you do is make yourself a target, make yourself immobile, or make yourself reliant on having a large group (which isn't bad if that's intentional, but still)

Just my thoughts on the matter.

Skills, unfortunately, cannot be spread as quickly as assets. Definitely would prefer skills to having tech though, because while hard to give, they are even harder to take away.

[Rick]

Money is a tool like anything else. It isn't inherently good or evil. It's the person behind the money that makes the difference. If you think that money is the end game then you don't understand the rules. None of us get to take it with us.

[ubercrow]

So as we were discussing prepping, he casually told me that he figures he has a huge advantage over the average prepper because he has 3 years worth of food on hand, thousands upon thousands of rounds of ammunition, hundreds of gallons of water, on and on and on.


It always makes me laugh when I see people prepare for disasters with one game plain- fill a house full of stuff. Like the disaster will unfold around their house and they can just sit around eating snacks as the masses swim through chaos?

Don't get me wrong it is good to prepare I always keep at least 30days of food I would never want to go beg and fight for food from FEMA trucks. But I would never rely on 1 plain of sitting around living off of a horde of food in a home.

If you look at disasters such as collapsed governments in history you will see most of the time populations get displaced. It doesn’t matter how many MREs or bullets they have in their home they flee or die in most all cases. For people to think they are special and can just sit back on the couch and watch it all with some extra food they bought is delusional. Rwanda, Congo, Nicaragua and many other parts of the world can give us great examples of gangs and armies pillaging homes and stock piles. A pile of rifles and tins of ammo are nothing in the game of war they are called a small “score” to pillaging armies.

[Rick]

They'll be none of that pillaging here, thank you very much. You can pillage down the street or plunder the next block over. You try that stuff over here and I'm callin' 911. Hey! I ain't jokin'.

[cwi555]

Guns can in fact be replaced with the right skill sets. Just ask the Afgans circa USSR / Afgan war.

[randyt]

guns can in fact be replaced with the right skill sets. Just ask the afgans circa ussr / afgan war.

cia!!!!!!!!!!!

[Rick]

Randy - You are so Canadian. NSA. Ollie was telling me just the other night, "We don't get no respect". I told him the next time that whole Afghan thing comes up in conversation I'll be sure to mention your name. Consider it mentioned, Ollie.

[randyt]

Ollie like in Oliver North? or kukla, fran and ollie

[crashdive123]

Mr. Stone....

[cwi555]

They were provided a lot of weapons, but they learned to make them themselves initially from gun makers recruited from Pakistan. Most of those people returned to Darra Adam Khel, in Pakistan.
http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1998-07-24/news/9807230530_1_guns-main-street-darra
The mujahadeen recruited people from Darra at the onset of hostilities, expedited shortly after by US efforts, and later replaced by outright weapons shipments.
There was a time when you could take a tour of the city if you were in the region late 90's and prior to 2001. After 911, it become dangerous, with subsequent banning of tourist to the town.
I had the opportunity to tour the town prior to it shutting out tourist. Anyone who thinks it can't be done can be schooled by their gunsmiths.
http://tribune.com.pk/story/458310/the-legendary-gunsmiths-of-darra-adam-khel/
Their typical gunsmith:
8867

[randyt]

interesting info, there is a book by John Minnery about improvised weapons. There is a chapter about the khyber pass gun makers.

[Wildthang]

I am not trolling when I say this: you sound like you have a bone to pick with him because he is rich- like you resent him for that reason. No mention was made as to his training. For all we know, from your monologue, he could be completely trained already. We also don't know if he has other bugout locations that are stocked, etc. There are always two sides to every story.

No bone to pick here, in fact I wish everybody was rich, then we could afford to bail the government out! He pretty much told me that he has no interest in skills because he will never need them. So I do have a bone to pick with ignorance!

[kyratshooter]

Famous quote from my x-wife;

"If you are so smart why arn't we rich?"

I have a skill set, I have preps, I have my BOL, I have reserves. I am very modestly comfortable, or at least I have accepted my financial station in life.

That life has been spent acquiring extensive knowledge, in several fields, no one wished to pay for.

But I have still mulled over her sitational observation for 30 years.

Perhaps if I were a bit more "stupid" I would now have more money.

Perhaps not.

Unless I have a "Colonel Sanders moment" it is too late to worry about it now.

[Wildthang]

Famous quote from my x-wife;

"If you are so smart why arn't we rich?"

I have a skill set, I have preps, I have my BOL, I have reserves. I am very modestly comfortable, or at least I have accepted my financial station in life.

That life has been spent acquiring extensive knowledge, in several fields, no one wished to pay for.

But I have still mulled over her sitational observation for 30 years.

Perhaps if I were a bit more "stupid" I would now have more money.

Perhaps not.

Unless I have a "Colonel Sanders moment" it is too late to worry about it now.

Well Kyrat at least we are rich in knowledge and happines, and that is all that matters. I make a comfortable living but have worked my azz off to get it, and I still do not consider myself rich. I guess being raised in a poor family, and considering the state of the economy, I really never let myself feel like I am not vulnerable to economic and outside influences. I try to always remind myself that it can all go away in a single day.
I have always tried to live within my means and still do to this very day. To me anybody that assumes that they are not vulnerable is a fool, and this guy fits the bill!

[ubercrow]

They were provided a lot of weapons, but they learned to make them themselves initially from gun makers recruited from Pakistan.

One of the many beautiful things about the AK47 is it is designed to be replicated and built with minimal tools and machinery.

[cbr6fs]

Surely if tornadoes are prevalent in his area he will have a tornado shelter?
Do you get many earthquakes in Ohio?

All because you can think up some unlikely situation it doesn't mean that it's likely to happen.
If his house is destroyed by a tornado and he is wealthy then i'm sure he'll have a second property and just move there while he rebuilds.
There is not going to be a even THAT drastic that he will not be able to access his money or assets long term, so what's the problem?

It's not like he is asking for handouts from you, so from your report i think you were extremely arrogant and rude.
Who are you to judge others and how they perceive future threats and prepare for them?

What i mean by that is, you spoke to the guy for a few mins, you really have absolutely no idea on what if any skills he has, you have no idea on what assets he owns, how much gear he has stored and where.
I know people that prep but do it on the quiet, they're not going to tell a guy they've just met every single skill, training and prep they've done.

Even if they did they will have completely different perceptions on threats than you.
What skills will this guy need if a tornado hits his house?
Buy another car, book a hotel room on his credit card and start rebuilding his home, it's not like his family is going to starve to death from a tornado aftermath.
Likewise with a earthquake or any other realistic threat.

So from what i've read it seems to me that you need to practice a bit more at your "people skills" and "tolerance" skill sets and this guy needs to stop trying to impress strangers.

[Geek]

Money is an advantage. Skills are an advantage. Basic intelligence is an advantage. Physical fitness and good health are an advantage. Stored preps are an advantage. We each have whatever advantages we have and lack the ones we lack. Judging someone else for having money and no preps, but no skills or intelligence is pointless. If a crisis unfolds he may do okay or he may do poorly. I wish him luck.

[Wildthang]

Well it I guess it was one of those times when you just had to be there to understand it all. He point blank said that he didn't need skils then implied that if you have lot's of money, you don't need skills. So I had to assume form what he said that he has no skills and thinks it is a waste of time.
I personally still think that is a stupid way of thinking, and if you want to agree with him, it is your option. This guy was as arrogant as they get which rubbed me the wrong way and that is just how I roll!
I could care less how much money he has, but standing there telling me that skills are useless just pissed me off!

[randyt]

I started doing some work recently for a rich man. I've never met him but have met his employees. I was walking through his compound with one of his guys and we were small talking. Somehow the tv show doomsday preppers came up. I said gee is XXXX a prepper. His guy didn't break stride or respond, I had to laugh. The signs are so obvious.

[Geek]

Well it I guess it was one of those times when you just had to be there to understand it all. He point blank said that he didn't need skils then implied that if you have lot's of money, you don't need skills. So I had to assume form what he said that he has no skills and thinks it is a waste of time.
I personally still think that is a stupid way of thinking, and if you want to agree with him, it is your option. This guy was as arrogant as they get which rubbed me the wrong way and that is just how I roll!
I could care less how much money he has, but standing there telling me that skills are useless just pissed me off!

I'm not agreeing with him. I'm just suggesting that an idiot with a bunch of money and stuff is better off than an idiot without money or stuff. Nobody is perfect aand you can't fix stupid, so why let it annoy you?

Of course, I got annoyed at the fool who shot himself in the rear in another thread, so I guess I'm in no position to advise.

[ubercrow]

Famous quote from my x-wife;

"If you are so smart why arn't we rich?"


It is a common misconception that most rich people are smart and successful. A very large majority of rich people were born into money and never have to work a day in their lives they only invest in rigged games that their advisers pick out for them.

I have worked for quite a few rich business owners and entrepreneurs and have watched them set up many fail businesses,which is no big surprise it is extremely hard to make a profitable business, but I always hear people rave about them and how "successful" and "clever" they are. I just think "really?"

Society just likes to rave up the shinny success stories of the few self made ones to let everyone know "If you work hard you can achieve anything..." like more profit for the owner of your $8.75 job? In reality you are probably more likely to win the lotto.

[Seniorman]

I can't remember who the entertainer was many years ago who said this but it has validity in most cases.

He said, "I've been rich and I've been poor. Believe me, rich is better." :thumbup1:

S.M.

[cbr6fs]

Well it I guess it was one of those times when you just had to be there to understand it all. He point blank said that he didn't need skils then implied that if you have lot's of money, you don't need skills. So I had to assume form what he said that he has no skills and thinks it is a waste of time.
I personally still think that is a stupid way of thinking, and if you want to agree with him, it is your option. This guy was as arrogant as they get which rubbed me the wrong way and that is just how I roll!
I could care less how much money he has, but standing there telling me that skills are useless just pissed me off!

I can understand that, arrogance really sets me off to, sometimes our emotions override logic i guess it's what makes us human.

Speaking logically though what skills would he need?
Apart from first aid i'm struggling to think of a skill that you could train into someone.

There is no doubt that some folks are more resourceful and ingenious than others and that these people tend to fair better in emergency situations, but them so do folks that can keep their cool and stay calm, i'm not really sure you could train either as a skill set.

As i said above, what skills is he likely to need and what training should he be doing?

[cbr6fs]

Just reread and my post seemed to come off a little curt.

Please think of it as a inquisitive post rather than a challenge, as that is how i intended it.

[Wildthang]

Well it is my humble opinion that survival skills will get you thru, when the money loses it's value. He could easily lose his house, preps, money etc., but if you at least have the basic survival skills, you can get by with your skills and basic essentials.
That is what I was trying to explain to this guy!

[Geek]

I can think of: defense skills to hang on to what he has, farming, construction or at least maintenance skills, hunting and butchering, ham radio. The range is so broad that no one person could cover them all.

[cbr6fs]

Interesting to read other peoples opinions and concerns, thanks.

Sorry if i'm going a slightly off-thread here but i am honestly genuinely curious.

Do you believe that something will happen say within the next 20 years that will cause money to loose it's value?
If so, do you believe that assets like property, land, cars etc will also loose value?

Obviously i am from a different part of the world than you, we also have completely different life experiences.
But if i'm being totally honest, if someone came up to me and told me that i was not preparing enough and that someday my properties, assets etc will loose the entire monetary value i would in all honesty think i was speaking to a mad man/woman.

I do appreciate in your case the guys arrogance was a red rag to a bull, so i'm not belittling your response, it's just that we all have different life experiences that form our judgement and opinions, so maybe this guy (like myself) does not believe that such an event will occur in our life times.


Geek,
I do believe it's important for my kids to have good self defence skills, but for the rest i do not rate any high enough to bother teaching them to the kids unless they specifically asked or showed an interest.
Self defence aside, I just don't foresee something happening that will require any of the rest to be ESSENTIAL to staying alive (careers in one aside, to pay the bills).

[ubercrow]

Obviously i am from a different part of the world than you, we also have completely different life experiences.
But if i'm being totally honest, if someone came up to me and told me that i was not preparing enough and that someday my properties, assets etc will loose the entire monetary value i would in all honesty think i was speaking to a mad man/woman.


In in recent times in many parts of the world very well off families have lost everything over night. I know families in Central America that had farms, restaurants, bank accounts and when things went bad they lost it all ended up in another country with nothing.

You never know most people think that their reality is solid as stone that's a childish illusion.

[Wildthang]

Interesting to read other peoples opinions and concerns, thanks.

Sorry if i'm going a slightly off-thread here but i am honestly genuinely curious.

Do you believe that something will happen say within the next 20 years that will cause money to loose it's value?
If so, do you believe that assets like property, land, cars etc will also loose value?

Obviously i am from a different part of the world than you, we also have completely different life experiences.
But if i'm being totally honest, if someone came up to me and told me that i was not preparing enough and that someday my properties, assets etc will loose the entire monetary value i would in all honesty think i was speaking to a mad man/woman.

I do appreciate in your case the guys arrogance was a red rag to a bull, so i'm not belittling your response, it's just that we all have different life experiences that form our judgement and opinions, so maybe this guy (like myself) does not believe that such an event will occur in our life times.


Geek,
I do believe it's important for my kids to have good self defence skills, but for the rest i do not rate any high enough to bother teaching them to the kids unless they specifically asked or showed an interest.
Self defence aside, I just don't foresee something happening that will require any of the rest to be ESSENTIAL to staying alive (careers in one aside, to pay the bills).

A wise man will never take his wealth for granted because it can leave faster than it came. A lost job, a medical problem, a simple mistake gets you sued, a bad investment, there are many things that can take your wealth.
I have a lot of assets and make a good living, but I never fool myself into beleiveing that it can't be lost. I hav ehad many friends that lost their fortune over one mistakes.
So to me only a fool would ever assume that money is his key to survival because if it all goes away, withouut survival skills, your chances are greater that you won't survive.
I honestly hope we have several good years of normal living before the world takes a turn for the worst, and I would hate to guess how long that will be.
But if you look at the global economy, over population, pollution, disfunctional governements, political upheavels ( happening right now in several countries ), and any number of of things I haven't mentioned, it is not if, but when will it happen.

[Geek]

Interesting to read other peoples opinions and concerns, thanks.

Sorry if i'm going a slightly off-thread here but i am honestly genuinely curious.

Do you believe that something will happen say within the next 20 years that will cause money to loose it's value?
If so, do you believe that assets like property, land, cars etc will also loose value?

Obviously i am from a different part of the world than you, we also have completely different life experiences.
But if i'm being totally honest, if someone came up to me and told me that i was not preparing enough and that someday my properties, assets etc will loose the entire monetary value i would in all honesty think i was speaking to a mad man/woman.

I do appreciate in your case the guys arrogance was a red rag to a bull, so i'm not belittling your response, it's just that we all have different life experiences that form our judgement and opinions, so maybe this guy (like myself) does not believe that such an event will occur in our life times.


Geek,
I do believe it's important for my kids to have good self defence skills, but for the rest i do not rate any high enough to bother teaching them to the kids unless they specifically asked or showed an interest.
Self defence aside, I just don't foresee something happening that will require any of the rest to be ESSENTIAL to staying alive (careers in one aside, to pay the bills).

To your question about assets losing value, the primary assets held by Americans are houses and stocks, particularly in retirement accounts. Houses lost a major portion of their value in the past few years, albeit more in some parts of the country than others. Stocks lost 54 percent of their value as measured by the Dow from their peak to the low point in 2009. Now we are printing money in all the developed countries at a rate that strikes many as dangerous. Sure assets can lose value.

Re: skills. If you are prepping for a short term event like Hurricane Sandy, which passed through here in October, you're not going to need most of the skills I listed. If you are preparing for an event like an EMP, which would impact us for years, you'll need all of those skills. Now I think it makes more sense to prepare for shorter term, higher probability, events before worrying about longer term, lower probability events, but once you are covered for the shorter term events, you need to decide whether to stop or cover the longer term events as well.

We have folks here who are all up and down that spectrum.

[hunter63]

I would rather be a rich prepper than a poor prepper.....but dealing with reality......just means "do the best you can with what you got".

I can see and have experienced the "why should I learn anything , just have enough money to buy what I need", related to me by some friends, and think that is a dangerous point of view....

[cbr6fs]

In in recent times in many parts of the world very well off families have lost everything over night. I know families in Central America that had farms, restaurants, bank accounts and when things went bad they lost it all ended up in another country with nothing.

You never know most people think that their reality is solid as stone that's a childish illusion.

A fool and his/her money are easily separated.

I cannot foresee any circumstance this side of a criminal enterprise or borrowing wayyyyyyyy beyond your means, where a person can loose EVERYTHING over night.
It's just not possible.

Investments rise and drop, property over the long term is a wise investment.
As long as you don't borrow past your means then there is no way a wealthy person could loose it all in months never mind weeks or days.

If you own your house outright and have not borrowed against it then no matter what at least you still have a roof over your head.



A wise man will never take his wealth for granted because it can leave faster than it came. A lost job, a medical problem, a simple mistake gets you sued, a bad investment, there are many things that can take your wealth.
I have a lot of assets and make a good living, but I never fool myself into beleiveing that it can't be lost. I hav ehad many friends that lost their fortune over one mistakes.


A wise person never takes ANYTHING for granted.

The circumstances you gave are all gradual descents, gradual enough that a person has time to do something about their expenditure to limit the loss.

None of the skills Geek eluded to
defense skills to hang on to what he has, farming, construction or at least maintenance skills, hunting and butchering, ham radio. would make any difference to that person in that situation.
You simply could not legally forage and hunt enough food over a year to feed a family, without any financial outlay like say hunting license, ammunition, guns, bows, arrows etc etc etc.

Even if we stretch reality and say a person could, what about if a family member gets sick, what about clothes, heating in winter, washing, bathing etc etc etc.



So to me only a fool would ever assume that money is his key to survival because if it all goes away, withouut survival skills, your chances are greater that you won't survive.

But money IS the key to survival.
Without money how do we survive, how do we put a roof over our heads, pay the bills, put food on the table, or in the US pay for medical treatment?
Even if you hunt to put food on the table you still need ammunition, hunting license etc.

There are a few that live off the grid, but it's an extremely tough life with many compromises, even then if money is not used things are bartered and traded so it's money in another form.

So even if you are skilled at the art of survival you still need wealth in one form or another to be able to secure land to raise animals and grow crops.



I honestly hope we have several good years of normal living before the world takes a turn for the worst, and I would hate to guess how long that will be.
But if you look at the global economy, over population, pollution, disfunctional governements, political upheavels ( happening right now in several countries ), and any number of of things I haven't mentioned, it is not if, but when will it happen.

When has it ever been any different?
In the 70's kids were being shipped out to Vietnam.
Before that our grandfathers were being shipped off to war in Europe and the Pacific.
Even before that America was hit by the great depression.
Then we have the cold war, Lincoln, Kennedy Martin Luther King assassinations, watergate etc etc etc

The answer is it's NEVER been any different and the media does what it always does and sells fear.
10 years ago it was Al-Qaeda, 30 years ago it was the Russians, 60 years ago it was the Germans and the Japanese, 100 years ago it was the native population.

Fear sells and more importantly controls and it always has done.

If people want to build bunkers and stores years supplies of food then that's their choice.
To be honest i would happily stand next to them and fight for them to have that choice.

If on the other hand some people don't want to buy into that fear then it does not make them fools.
They (or i should say we as i don't buy into these cataclysmic events happening in my life time) are only fools if it does happen, and then only afterwards ;)


To your question about assets losing value, the primary assets held by Americans are houses and stocks, particularly in retirement accounts. Houses lost a major portion of their value in the past few years, albeit more in some parts of the country than others. Stocks lost 54 percent of their value as measured by the Dow from their peak to the low point in 2009. Now we are printing money in all the developed countries at a rate that strikes many as dangerous. Sure assets can lose value.

As long as it's paid for then it doesn't really matter if your house is worth $1 million or $1.
The problem is NOT the times we are living in, the problem is when people borrow more than they can afford to pay back.

As for stocks.
You gamble only what you can afford to loose, and make no mistake stocks and shares are as much as a gamble as a weekend in Vegas, except the odds over the long term are slightly more in your favour with stocks and shares.



Re: skills. If you are prepping for a short term event like Hurricane Sandy, which passed through here in October, you're not going to need most of the skills I listed. If you are preparing for an event like an EMP, which would impact us for years, you'll need all of those skills. Now I think it makes more sense to prepare for shorter term, higher probability, events before worrying about longer term, lower probability events, but once you are covered for the shorter term events, you need to decide whether to stop or cover the longer term events as well.

We have folks here who are all up and down that spectrum.

Personally i think i have more chance of waking up in between Monica Bellucci and Jessica Alba tomorrow morning than our generation experiencing an event so cataclysmic that we'd need to have to hunt to survive.

But even if it did the op stated:

he casually told me that he figures he has a huge advantage over the average prepper because he has 3 years worth of food on hand, thousands upon thousands of rounds of ammunition, hundreds of gallons of water, on and on and on.
To my mind that's bought the guy and his family 3 years to learn how to hunt and farm.
Not a bad start in my book.


I do agree 100% in that it's just good basic common sense to have enough food and water for a few weeks in case of earthquakes, floods, hurricanes etc etc

[ubercrow]

I cannot foresee any circumstance this side of a criminal enterprise or borrowing wayyyyyyyy beyond your means, where a person can loose EVERYTHING over night.
It's just not possible.


Hospitals are full of people that lost everything overnight have a stroke or car wreck go to the hospital $300k later.
Prisons have regular people that were just driving down the road one day and made a wrong turn, shot a thief in the garage, met the wrong girl at the bar.
Governments change powers and usually confiscate peoples wealth “state property”. After all “wealth” “mortgagees” “bonds” is just linked to the current government or ruling element.

Thousands probably Millions of people a year lose “everything” monetary to think you are above it all is a delusion.

[Geek]

I suggest you consider the possibility of an EMP.

[First Hunt]

There is a very high correlation with intelligence (problem solving ability, creativity etc) and wealth generation. By wealth generation I am talking about wealth that wasn't inherited. These innate skills obviously have some bearing on the ability to survive and thrive. Coupled with the ability to purchase resources that could aide in survival, these two factors can be pretty advantageous for a rich prepper.

As long as they maintain survival skills and possess physical resources (money is not a resource in this context, just a temporary means of exchange), it is better to be a rich prepper than a poor one. Yes, it can all be lost in a second if someone shoots, but I think statistically speaking (we could actually graph this if it was of enough interest to the community) it is better to be rich.

I also think this is a funny quote relevant to the thread.

Fear of death increases in exact proportion to increase in wealth. - Ernest Hemingway

[cbr6fs]

Hospitals are full of people that lost everything overnight have a stroke or car wreck go to the hospital $300k later.
Prisons have regular people that were just driving down the road one day and made a wrong turn, shot a thief in the garage, met the wrong girl at the bar.
Governments change powers and usually confiscate peoples wealth “state property”. After all “wealth” “mortgagees” “bonds” is just linked to the current government or ruling element.

Thousands probably Millions of people a year lose “everything” monetary to think you are above it all is a delusion.

Here in Europe we have state health care so loosing $300k to hospital fees is not likely.
Plus many also have extra private medical insurance as well.

You wouldn't loose all your wealth if you were sent to prison though, unless it was proved to have been gotten by illegal means.
Plus you have the option of not committing the crime in the first place.

Governments and geopolitical climates do change for sure.
I know people that lost their homes when Turkey invaded Cyprus, all these years later and they still have received no compensation.
They still had the money that was in their bank accounts plus what ever they could carry, so although there is no doubt it was a deeply traumatic experience they did not loose everything.

I'm not really sure how you jumped from my curiosity of an event where someone would loose everything, to attacking me personally and labelling me as "deluded".

You have absolutely no idea who i am, what my wealth and assets are, my work, my wages nor my investments.
How can you possibly make a judgement on my financial security without knowing any of the above?
Answer you cannot.
If you are not able to judge my financial security with any degree of accuracy then how can you possibly judge how i perceive the threat of loosing "everything"

Again you cannot, so please keep the discussion in good humour and refrain from making judgements you have absolutely no idea about.


I suggest you consider the possibility of an EMP.

Thanks for the heads up :thumbup1:

I have considered the possibility and have investigated it, i personally do not perceive it as a real threat.
No doubt there are natural phenomenon such as solar flares that some have linked to EMP threats, the evidence i've seen so far has not caused me any concern.

[Geek]

Here in Europe we have state health care so loosing $300k to hospital fees is not likely.
Plus many also have extra private medical insurance as well.



Thanks for the heads up :thumbup1:

I have considered the possibility and have investigated it, i personally do not perceive it as a real threat.
No doubt there are natural phenomenon such as solar flares that some have linked to EMP threats, the evidence i've seen so far has not caused me any concern.

On the point of healthcare, most Americans do not trust a state run healthcare system to actually provide healthcare when needed. You don't need to worry about being bankrupted by a health problem, but you do need to worry about whether you will also receive timely and effective treatment. That's why there is so much dissension here in the US on the subject.

Re: EMP. If you have simply dismissed the possibility of an EMP, then you have dismissed the possibility that nuclear weapons won't be set off in the upper atmosphere by either a state like North Korea or Pakistan, or by a terrorist organization that comes into possession of a nuclear weapon, e.g. take a nuclear weapon, load it on an aircraft, take it to 40,000 feet over New York and set it off. While I think the possibility of such a thing happening tomorrow is pretty low, the possibility of it happening some time in the next 50-100 years is pretty high.

As a result, what we disagree on is not the fact that someone's wealth might be wiped out, but whether a whole range of low probability catastrophic events might occur, and whether government could deal with them. Having been inside the World Trade Center when it was hit, I am not so complacent as to think the world will not see another Hitler, or another Osama bin Laden, and that no one will ever use nuclear weapons. As for a naturally occurring EMP, there was one in 1859 that would be truly catastrophic if it hit today. Will one like it occur in the next 100 years? You dismiss it, but I think it is a real risk. If you dismiss all the truly catastrophic possibilities, then you won't be prepared if any one of them occurs.

You say you're in Europe. Look at Greece. Do you really want to maintain that wealth can't be wiped out in Greece, or that the Greek government won't pull the plug on cancer treatment when their people need it? What's to say any other European government, or the US government, won't look like Greece at some point in the future? You talk about owning land so it can't be taken but there are examples of "land reform" all over the world which are precisely about taking away land and giving it to someone else. Here in the US we have the risk that some bureaucrat will declare your property to be a "wetland" and suddenly you'll be faced with bankruptcy trying to get the ruling reversed.

Most of the survivalist movement is about taking personal responsibility for your own safety rather than trusting government to keep you alive, especially in a large event. Our government couldn't handle Hurricane Katrina or Hurricane Sandy. I doubt any European government would do better.

[Wildthang]

Here in Europe we have state health care so loosing $300k to hospital fees is not likely.
Plus many also have extra private medical insurance as well.

You wouldn't loose all your wealth if you were sent to prison though, unless it was proved to have been gotten by illegal means.
Plus you have the option of not committing the crime in the first place.

Governments and geopolitical climates do change for sure.
I know people that lost their homes when Turkey invaded Cyprus, all these years later and they still have received no compensation.
They still had the money that was in their bank accounts plus what ever they could carry, so although there is no doubt it was a deeply traumatic experience they did not loose everything.

I'm not really sure how you jumped from my curiosity of an event where someone would loose everything, to attacking me personally and labelling me as "deluded".

You have absolutely no idea who i am, what my wealth and assets are, my work, my wages nor my investments.
How can you possibly make a judgement on my financial security without knowing any of the above?
Answer you cannot.
If you are not able to judge my financial security with any degree of accuracy then how can you possibly judge how i perceive the threat of loosing "everything"

Again you cannot, so please keep the discussion in good humour and refrain from making judgements you have absolutely no idea about.



Thanks for the heads up :thumbup1:

I have considered the possibility and have investigated it, i personally do not perceive it as a real threat.
No doubt there are natural phenomenon such as solar flares that some have linked to EMP threats, the evidence i've seen so far has not caused me any concern.

You actually remind me of the guy I was talking about in the original posting of this thread. You obviously have the world and your money all figured out and you are immune to everything. I honestly hope you are and wish you all the luck in the future. I just prefer to think that nothing is forever and wealth is not necessarily a guarantee that you can never take it for granted. At least we have one person on here that is impervious to all misfortunes and natural disasters, that is very cool indeed!
Dude, you are the King and do not need to be prepared for anything!

[crashdive123]

Stop with the personal attacks/comments. Walk away from the thread if you cannot.

[cbr6fs]

On the point of healthcare, most Americans do not trust a state run healthcare system to actually provide healthcare when needed. You don't need to worry about being bankrupted by a health problem, but you do need to worry about whether you will also receive timely and effective treatment. That's why there is so much dissension here in the US on the subject.

Although there is absolutely no doubt that some state health care systems are very poorly managed and run with poor service, surely even poor health care is better than nothing?

What i mean by that is, lets say someone develops appendicitis.
If someone does not have the finances available to purchase private health care nor the savings to pay for treatment, surely treatment even at a poorly managed hospital is better than nothing at all?




Re: EMP. If you have simply dismissed the possibility of an EMP, then you have dismissed the possibility that nuclear weapons won't be set off in the upper atmosphere by either a state like North Korea or Pakistan, or by a terrorist organization that comes into possession of a nuclear weapon, e.g. take a nuclear weapon, load it on an aircraft, take it to 40,000 feet over New York and set it off. While I think the possibility of such a thing happening tomorrow is pretty low, the possibility of it happening some time in the next 50-100 years is pretty high.

Personally those threats do not pop up on my radar, i spend more time worrying about if the dog wants to go out to relieve herself than i do about any of those events occurring.
If a country is hell bent on wiping out another country then why waste a nuclear bomb by detonating high in the atmosphere?
The devastation caused by a nuclear explosions EMP discharge is insignificant compared to the damage caused by it's explosive discharge and radiation.
It's also extremely localised.

As i say i have investigated the risk and personally i see it as inconsequential.



As a result, what we disagree on is not the fact that someone's wealth might be wiped out, but whether a whole range of low probability catastrophic events might occur, and whether government could deal with them. Having been inside the World Trade Center when it was hit, I am not so complacent as to think the world will not see another Hitler, or another Osama bin Laden, and that no one will ever use nuclear weapons. As for a naturally occurring EMP, there was one in 1859 that would be truly catastrophic if it hit today. Will one like it occur in the next 100 years? You dismiss it, but I think it is a real risk. If you dismiss all the truly catastrophic possibilities, then you won't be prepared if any one of them occurs.

We all make threat assessments on a daily basis.
Be it pushing the car to 80mph in a 70mph zone, eating that extra bar of chocolate, having unprotected intercourse, crossing a busy road instead of walking 500 yards to the crossing, not exercising that day, spending our earnings of junk we don't really need instead of saving it, plus a million billion other things.

As a species we do not have the ability to foresee the future, the best we can do is to analyse a threat and rate it.
Even if you have 2 people walking down the same road both will have different ratings of different threats depending on their experiences and opinions.
As an example one guy might see a loose AC on the 4th floor of a building they're walking towards as a real threat.
The other may see a shady looking guy on the opposite side of the road as a threat.

No right or wrong, just different opinions.



You say you're in Europe. Look at Greece. Do you really want to maintain that wealth can't be wiped out in Greece, or that the Greek government won't pull the plug on cancer treatment when their people need it? What's to say any other European government, or the US government, won't look like Greece at some point in the future? You talk about owning land so it can't be taken but there are examples of "land reform" all over the world which are precisely about taking away land and giving it to someone else. Here in the US we have the risk that some bureaucrat will declare your property to be a "wetland" and suddenly you'll be faced with bankruptcy trying to get the ruling reversed.

I hope wealth can't be wiped out in Greece as i'm living here :blink:

In all seriousness though, it's another case of threat assessment, you see a threat so you take precautions.
Sure if Greece pulls out the Euro my property here will drop in value compared to say the Euro, pound or dollar, but people in Greece still need to live so houses will still have a value locally and that value will be directly proportional to the cost of everything else here.



Most of the survivalist movement is about taking personal responsibility for your own safety rather than trusting government to keep you alive, especially in a large event. Our government couldn't handle Hurricane Katrina or Hurricane Sandy. I doubt any European government would do better.

The point is, the op only spoke with the guy for a few seconds to mins straight after meeting the guy.
So he really only has an extremely small view of what the guy is doing in regards preparation, what training he has and what skills he has.

So he really does not have enough information to make a judgement on if the guy is sufficiently prepared.

Even then we all perceive certain threats differently.
As this thread has shown some here a concerned about events that other us have absolutely no concern about, so the guy may well think he has most of his bases covered on the things he perceives as a threat.
Who is the op, you or me to tell him different?


You actually remind me of the guy I was talking about in the original posting of this thread. You obviously have the world and your money all figured out and you are immune to everything. I honestly hope you are and wish you all the luck in the future. I just prefer to think that nothing is forever and wealth is not necessarily a guarantee that you can never take it for granted. At least we have one person on here that is impervious to all misfortunes and natural disasters, that is very cool indeed!
Dude, you are the King and do not need to be prepared for anything!

I find it very strange that you draw opinions of people so quickly and without any knowledge or facts on which to base that opinion.

You have absolutely no idea on who i am, what experiences i have, what i do, how much money i have, how it is invested, where it is invested with whom it is invested or what precautions i take.

It seems that twice in as many days you have gotten angry at 2 total strangers simply because they do not see things your way.
Call me old fashioned, but maybe it's not everyone else that's the problem?

[BENESSE]

... we all perceive certain threats differently.
Who is the op, you or me to tell him different?


It's called a discourse; it's done in media, among friends and family and in forums like this one. One hardly expects to convince anyone outright but it's nice to hear other POVs. Talking to oneself and preaching to the choir is not as much fun, or we wouldn't be arguing as much.

[Wildthang]

Although there is absolutely no doubt that some state health care systems are very poorly managed and run with poor service, surely even poor health care is better than nothing?

What i mean by that is, lets say someone develops appendicitis.
If someone does not have the finances available to purchase private health care nor the savings to pay for treatment, surely treatment even at a poorly managed hospital is better than nothing at all?




Personally those threats do not pop up on my radar, i spend more time worrying about if the dog wants to go out to relieve herself than i do about any of those events occurring.
If a country is hell bent on wiping out another country then why waste a nuclear bomb by detonating high in the atmosphere?
The devastation caused by a nuclear explosions EMP discharge is insignificant compared to the damage caused by it's explosive discharge and radiation.
It's also extremely localised.

As i say i have investigated the risk and personally i see it as inconsequential.



We all make threat assessments on a daily basis.
Be it pushing the car to 80mph in a 70mph zone, eating that extra bar of chocolate, having unprotected intercourse, crossing a busy road instead of walking 500 yards to the crossing, not exercising that day, spending our earnings of junk we don't really need instead of saving it, plus a million billion other things.

As a species we do not have the ability to foresee the future, the best we can do is to analyse a threat and rate it.
Even if you have 2 people walking down the same road both will have different ratings of different threats depending on their experiences and opinions.
As an example one guy might see a loose AC on the 4th floor of a building they're walking towards as a real threat.
The other may see a shady looking guy on the opposite side of the road as a threat.

No right or wrong, just different opinions.



I hope wealth can't be wiped out in Greece as i'm living here :blink:

In all seriousness though, it's another case of threat assessment, you see a threat so you take precautions.
Sure if Greece pulls out the Euro my property here will drop in value compared to say the Euro, pound or dollar, but people in Greece still need to live so houses will still have a value locally and that value will be directly proportional to the cost of everything else here.



The point is, the op only spoke with the guy for a few seconds to mins straight after meeting the guy.
So he really only has an extremely small view of what the guy is doing in regards preparation, what training he has and what skills he has.

So he really does not have enough information to make a judgement on if the guy is sufficiently prepared.

Even then we all perceive certain threats differently.
As this thread has shown some here a concerned about events that other us have absolutely no concern about, so the guy may well think he has most of his bases covered on the things he perceives as a threat.
Who is the op, you or me to tell him different?



I find it very strange that you draw opinions of people so quickly and without any knowledge or facts on which to base that opinion.

You have absolutely no idea on who i am, what experiences i have, what i do, how much money i have, how it is invested, where it is invested with whom it is invested or what precautions i take.

It seems that twice in as many days you have gotten angry at 2 total strangers simply because they do not see things your way.
Call me old fashioned, but maybe it's not everyone else that's the problem?

Look dude, the guy said he was absolutely not concerned with bushcraft skills, didn't want to learn them, and had absolutely no need for them, but still claimed to be a prepper. So no matter what I didn't know about the guy, that does not makes sense to me. Money cannot replace skills and common sense and that is all I was trying to convey in this thread.
If you want continue this debate, PM me!

[ubercrow]

Again you cannot, so please keep the discussion in good humour and refrain from making judgements you have absolutely no idea about.


It is in good humor. and I do know who you are.

yawn.. I am done playing with the troll

[Psalm25]

cbr6fs, I agree with you that the more money someone has the better chance of survival in most cases. However I would not go as far as to say you could not loose everything over night. Aside from situations that have happened to many people like hackers, scams, kidnapping for ransom, murder to obtain a will, ect ect... there are possible future events that could very well happen. I don't know if this is true but I have heard there is a device that can be set off to kill any computer in a large radius. Since everything is run by computers, even a car has a computer it needs to be able to drive it... plans and jets are run by computer ect. So if war broke out and this happened how would you get from point a to point b even if you do have a house set up in another country? I also doubt commercial airlines would be running while a disaster is taking place and the roads would ether be blocked by military or traffic. No matter how you look at it, it would not be as simple as just booking a flight and leaving. Even if you are wealthy enough to own your own jet like Donald Trump it does not mean you would be able to just jump on it and fly away without getting shot down. I just don't think it would be as easy as it sounds to head to another country if all hell breaks loose, whether that be war, terrorism or what have you. We have free health care here in Canada too, but that does not mean it is written in stone. With the population growth growing at an incredibly insane number I don't think it will be free for ever. In 1987 the world population was 5 billion. In 1999 it was 6 billion. In 2011 it was 7 billion. Many scientists believe the world can not sustain more than 9-10 billion and the higher the population, the less resources there is and the higher the crime rate gets. Money will get you no where if someone puts a gun to your head to steal the candy bar out of your pocket to feed their children. Even though when disasters occur the people with money might have everything they need, but that makes them the prime target for people who don't have everything they need. For me it is not the disaster itself that I would fear, it is the people in the aftermath. That is why I would not be sticking around any populated area's, I would go to the wilderness. You had mentioned it is not possible to survive of the land alone. There are many people here in Canada who do. Many people have Indian Status Cards that allow them to fish and hunt without a season or a catch limit. If shtf the game wardens will not be running around the vast Canadian wilderness trying to find poachers and you don't need money to buy bullets to hunt food. There are a million types of traps that can be used to catch anything from birds to bears and so on. They can be simply made out of things found in the woods. You can also make a bow and arrows in less than a day that could easily take down a deer. You can take walnuts with the husk on them and soak them in water and use it to poison fish, they will float up to the surface and you will have a feast within minutes. There are thousands of edible plants if you know what your looking for. You can obtain lantern oil our of birch bark for light. There are millions or resources in the wilderness but your kinda screwed if you don't know what they are.

[cbr6fs]

Things happen, not so civil wars have dispersed hundreds of thousands if not millions of people in the last 20 years alone.
Many fleeing in such a panic as they leave behind most of their possessions, those brave enough to return after hostilities return to find their land and property stolen and all relevant paperwork gone.

Even in these cases though those wealthy enough to have money saved, do sometimes have enough forewarning and foresight to transfer or distribute their funds, if they are really switched on then they will have transferred their wealth into easily carried forms of wealth like gems.


These are pretty much the worst case scenarios though, the chances of the op's area being thrown into civil war with the local inhabitants being thrown out of their homes is about as unlikely as my Mrs waking up next to Brad Pit tomorrow morning.

As real threats go i just don't buy into all this scaremongering about EMP strikes, hackers causing country wide black outs etc etc.
If an event did occur that took the world back to the dark ages then i'd deal with it just like i've dealt with and survived every other day in my 43 years.

In my experience you can prepare as much as you like but nature and life will find the ways you've not prepared for to wake you up.

You could be the worlds best hunter with the ability to take down a deer with a blade of grass, be able to start a fire by just looking at 2 sticks, be able to craft a bark bowl out of bird dropping with your toes and be able to find enough water to bath in during a expedition to Mars.
Wake up in the morning with appendicitis and it all means absolutely nothing unless you know a damn good surgeon.

Add into that cancer, heart disease, diabetes, dysentery, cholera, malaria, pneumonia, yellow fever, bubonic plague, Scarlet fever, typhoid, Influenza, Diphtheria, Measles, Dysentery, TB, the list goes on and on and on.

No amount of guns, ammunition, hunting skills, food storage or bunker building will help unless you have someone to care for you during the illness, the right medication and often a doctor.

Look back through history and you see that people built social groups for a reason.
You need a blacksmith, medicine man/woman, gatherers, hunters, farmers, teachers, bakers, seamstress etc etc.
Even if one person could acquire all those skills what happens when they fall ill, or break a leg?

So judging a persons value after some fantasy event like aliens have invaded the planet and eaten all our money is pretty pointless, but unless you know a person and you know what skills they posses and what experience they have then it's also very wrong to the point of being ridiculous.

[cbr6fs]

Ohh should have added "Psalm25" i did enjoy your post and you did put forward some great points.

I would be extremely grateful if you could press enter a few more times in future posts please as the lack of paragraphs caused chaos with these old eyes.

:thumbup:

[Psalm25]

LOL I will try to remember to do so... writing is not one of my strong points haha.

I agree with what you said about cancer and such, we can be here today and gone tomorrow. But the more prepared someone is for any situation the less likely that someone will be caught off guard.

I wish I could agree that the near future likely holds nothing but roses and smiles, but I just can't see that happening with the amount of technology most people rely on to survive these days, as well as the vast amount of weapons like nukes and germ warfare some countries have at hand that have no fear of death and make known that they want to be the nwo, not to mention terrorists that may have access to germ warfare as well. Even as I mentioned something as simple as our depleting resources and mega population growth is enough to cause people to kill for candy bars. I guess the way I look at it is even if someone has money spread around the world in safe places it does not mean they are more safe than the next guy if they need to rely on society to stay alive.

Just my opinion though, you have every right to your own of course.

[yellowcab]

Cour (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/11101)653.5 (http://cottagenet.ru/plan/193)CHAP (http://eyesvision.ru/strengtheningeyes/20)CHAP (http://eyesvisions.com/use-your-own-eyes-chapter-9)Intr (http://factoringfee.ru/t/1778607)Love (http://filmzones.ru/t/1857262)Best (http://gadwall.ru/t/1824616)Я�тр (http://gaffertape.ru/t/1682168)Kare (http://gageboard.ru/t/1788006)Jour (http://gagrule.ru/t/1933022)проп (http://gallduct.ru/t/1658561)Supe (http://galvanometric.ru/t/2000921)Clai (http://gangforeman.ru/t/1920052)Shou (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/1977593)Pral (http://garbagechute.ru/t/1969623)
Евро (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/1758346)Берк (http://gascautery.ru/t/1778287)Мард (http://gashbucket.ru/t/1830380)Arca (http://gasreturn.ru/t/1828628)Spac (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/1998854)Hear (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/1990489)упак (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/1883954)хоз� (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/1899999)Beat (http://geartreating.ru/t/1762552)Jack (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/1936803)круж (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/1950729)Сыче (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/1745464)Grea (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/1990462)Коле (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/1714312)утоп (http://getthebounce.ru/t/1804041)
Want (http://habeascorpus.ru/t/1706500)Стел (http://habituate.ru/t/1718438)Bjor (http://hackedbolt.ru/t/1784587)Laur (http://hackworker.ru/t/1830383)�йва (http://hadronicannihilation.ru/t/1747478)Alou (http://haemagglutinin.ru/t/1920029)брат (http://hailsquall.ru/t/1727833)изда (http://hairysphere.ru/t/1745490)Кудл (http://halforderfringe.ru/t/1829735)Ador (http://halfsiblings.ru/t/1652999)унив (http://hallofresidence.ru/t/1745161)Поро (http://haltstate.ru/t/1786897)Lyns (http://handcoding.ru/t/1788022)Venu (http://handportedhead.ru/t/1713529)Шеле (http://handradar.ru/t/1764261)
Boxe (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/1801748)Pete (http://hangonpart.ru/t/1828554)Гонк (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/1883952)Jong (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/1910374)Brok (http://hardasiron.ru/t/1981196)чита (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/1638200)Чере (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/1726310)наÑ�Ñ‚ (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/1735229)Fran (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/1783650)Ð*оÑ�Ñ‚ (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/1751170)XVII (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/1752207)Zwei (http://headregulator.ru/t/1747473)Meri (http://heartofgold.ru/t/1828150)Will (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/1837721)Laur (http://heatinggas.ru/t/1828191)
наро (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/1718637)Baby (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/1998936)Tram (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/1779970)Agad (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/1996985)Want (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/1990513)Jasm (http://jobstress.ru/t/1903998)Junk (http://jogformation.ru/t/1903969)Tequ (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/1884160)Обол (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/1804042)Jayn (http://journallubricator.ru/t/1788043)имен (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/1792014)рабо (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/1836791)XVII (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/1745140)Dian (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/1788040)Мало (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/1742235)
Joyo (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/1994997)Osca (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/1726231)Жаро (http://kentishglory.ru/t/1903963)�урп (http://kerbweight.ru/t/1786978)Конд (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/1745143)Good (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/1787966)Круг (http://keyserum.ru/t/1787049)Rush (http://kickplate.ru/t/1996940)Zone (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/1827877)Mika (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/1933012)Pape (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/1973906)веде (http://kinozones.ru/film/95)Clai (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/1943505)Deco (http://kneejoint.ru/t/1920247)Lose (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/1858071)
Tran (http://knockonatom.ru/t/1850642)JUDA (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/1977632)Berl (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/1943498)Take (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/1920022)Loui (http://laborracket.ru/t/1942975)Intr (http://labourearnings.ru/t/2000753)Thin (http://labourleasing.ru/t/2009200)Wick (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/1715371)Real (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/1859695)Прох (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/1751392)Cont (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/1780252)McGo (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/1830338)Жали (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/1671879)Sitt (http://laggingload.ru/t/1826103)Hell (http://laissezaller.ru/t/1849781)
Burn (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/1902628)Hold (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/2009110)Zone (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/1827874)Luck (http://lamphouse.ru/t/1784504)худо (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/1786832)Good (http://lancingdie.ru/t/1720153)прим (http://landingdoor.ru/t/1642383)Poor (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/1994999)пред (http://landreform.ru/t/1884147)Glen (http://landuseratio.ru/t/1837728)Seri (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/1987869)XVII (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1160808)обла (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/589453)EC-8 (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/349)приб (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/590217)

[yellowcab]

Robe (http://laterevent.ru/shop/1031195)Turb (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/451842)Gore (http://layabout.ru/shop/452044)коле (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/166594)Barb (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/105515)наук (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/459855)Майл (http://leaveword.ru/shop/460136)SQui (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/175198)cell (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/445780)на�т (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/194226)пла� (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/166927)во�п (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/269553)STAR (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/160139)Sein (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/159860)AUTO (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/613646)
изоб (http://manualchoke.ru/shop/598153)пери (http://medinfobooks.ru/book/1027)FLAC (http://mp3lists.ru/item/11101)Lite (http://nameresolution.ru/shop/569740)Rave (http://naphtheneseries.ru/shop/104782)уббт (http://narrowmouthed.ru/shop/460873)укра (http://nationalcensus.ru/shop/486709)одно (http://naturalfunctor.ru/shop/176305)живо (http://navelseed.ru/shop/100963)Кита (http://neatplaster.ru/shop/454684)Derr (http://necroticcaries.ru/shop/167472)King (http://negativefibration.ru/shop/185707)Mist (http://neighbouringrights.ru/shop/446639)Osir (http://objectmodule.ru/shop/108674)Bosc (http://observationballoon.ru)
Bosc (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/98452)Winx (http://oceanmining.ru/shop/457755)Euka (http://octupolephonon.ru/shop/571471)ЛитÐ* (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/148079)ЛитÐ* (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/200823)ЛитÐ* (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/147999)Sofi (http://onesticket.ru/shop/578531)Joha (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/580397)Elle (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/682794)ЛитÐ* (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/681104)Григ (http://palmberry.ru/shop/378753)Само (http://papercoating.ru/shop/581934)PART (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/687778)Мато (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1167106)Кико (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1167161)
во�ь (http://partfamily.ru/shop/1166182)Кузн (http://partialmajorant.ru/shop/1168959)Галь (http://quadrupleworm.ru/shop/1539060)прои (http://qualitybooster.ru/shop/414601)Гроз (http://quasimoney.ru/shop/594078)Су�л (http://quenchedspark.ru/shop/595856)кла� (http://quodrecuperet.ru/shop/1070055)теат (http://rabbetledge.ru/shop/1072465)Aziz (http://radialchaser.ru/shop/226453)Gism (http://radiationestimator.ru/shop/494943)`Лен (http://railwaybridge.ru/shop/514251)Thun (http://randomcoloration.ru/shop/511939)Ерма (http://rapidgrowth.ru/shop/844954)Соде (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru/shop/1077623)Краш (http://reachthroughregion.ru/shop/317769)
Safe (http://readingmagnifier.ru/shop/512481)Jeff (http://rearchain.ru/shop/640802)Карр (http://recessioncone.ru/shop/515729)(гол (http://recordedassignment.ru/shop/879772)Wind (http://rectifiersubstation.ru/shop/1053362)Davi (http://redemptionvalue.ru/shop/1061822)Гала (http://reducingflange.ru/shop/1678408)Мище (http://referenceantigen.ru/shop/1692975)Мака (http://regeneratedprotein.ru/shop/1758518)Sent (http://reinvestmentplan.ru/shop/121997)авто (http://safedrilling.ru/shop/1813852)wwwr (http://sagprofile.ru/shop/1053455)Rich (http://salestypelease.ru/shop/1065994)Sing (http://samplinginterval.ru/shop/1432868)Мощи (http://satellitehydrology.ru/shop/1461783)
накл (http://scarcecommodity.ru/shop/1487396)Ветр (http://scrapermat.ru/shop/1461790)Кра� (http://screwingunit.ru/shop/1493402)Besa (http://seawaterpump.ru/shop/1296676)Павл (http://secondaryblock.ru/shop/270856)Мидх (http://secularclergy.ru/shop/1480358)Яицк (http://seismicefficiency.ru/shop/304132)Барк (http://selectivediffuser.ru/shop/398990)Фили (http://semiasphalticflux.ru/shop/399909)Brut (http://semifinishmachining.ru/shop/460441)EC-8 (http://spicetrade.ru/spice_zakaz/349)EC-8 (http://spysale.ru/spy_zakaz/349)EC-8 (http://stungun.ru/stun_zakaz/349)Conc (http://tacticaldiameter.ru/shop/482259)Соде (http://tailstockcenter.ru/shop/489647)
Shar (http://tamecurve.ru/shop/497427)Серг (http://tapecorrection.ru/shop/482507)Evol (http://tappingchuck.ru/shop/486216)на�е (http://taskreasoning.ru/shop/498415)Корн (http://technicalgrade.ru/shop/1820981)Попк (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru/shop/1876447)Прок (http://telescopicdamper.ru/shop/646806)�ндр (http://temperateclimate.ru/shop/327604)Бога (http://temperedmeasure.ru/shop/399889)Топо (http://tenementbuilding.ru/shop/979505)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)Козы (http://ultramaficrock.ru/shop/979879)Валь (http://ultraviolettesting.ru/shop/482705)

[yellowcab]

�айт (http://audiobookkeeper.ru)�айт (http://cottagenet.ru)�айт (http://eyesvision.ru)�айт (http://eyesvisions.com)�айт (http://factoringfee.ru)�айт (http://filmzones.ru)�айт (http://gadwall.ru)�айт (http://gaffertape.ru)�айт (http://gageboard.ru)�айт (http://gagrule.ru)�айт (http://gallduct.ru)�айт (http://galvanometric.ru)�айт (http://gangforeman.ru)�айт (http://gangwayplatform.ru)�айт (http://garbagechute.ru)
�айт (http://gardeningleave.ru)�айт (http://gascautery.ru)�айт (http://gashbucket.ru)�айт (http://gasreturn.ru)�айт (http://gatedsweep.ru)�айт (http://gaugemodel.ru)�айт (http://gaussianfilter.ru)�айт (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru)�айт (http://geartreating.ru)�айт (http://generalizedanalysis.ru)�айт (http://generalprovisions.ru)�айт (http://geophysicalprobe.ru)�айт (http://geriatricnurse.ru)�айт (http://getintoaflap.ru)�айт (http://getthebounce.ru)
�айт (http://habeascorpus.ru)�айт (http://habituate.ru)�айт (http://hackedbolt.ru)�айт (http://hackworker.ru)�айт (http://hadronicannihilation.ru)�айт (http://haemagglutinin.ru)�айт (http://hailsquall.ru)�айт (http://hairysphere.ru)�айт (http://halforderfringe.ru)�айт (http://halfsiblings.ru)�айт (http://hallofresidence.ru)�айт (http://haltstate.ru)�айт (http://handcoding.ru)�айт (http://handportedhead.ru)�айт (http://handradar.ru)
�айт (http://handsfreetelephone.ru)�айт (http://hangonpart.ru)�айт (http://haphazardwinding.ru)�айт (http://hardalloyteeth.ru)�айт (http://hardasiron.ru)�айт (http://hardenedconcrete.ru)�айт (http://harmonicinteraction.ru)�айт (http://hartlaubgoose.ru)�айт (http://hatchholddown.ru)�айт (http://haveafinetime.ru)�айт (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru)�айт (http://headregulator.ru)�айт (http://heartofgold.ru)�айт (http://heatageingresistance.ru)�айт (http://heatinggas.ru)
�айт (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru)�айт (http://jacketedwall.ru)�айт (http://japanesecedar.ru)�айт (http://jibtypecrane.ru)�айт (http://jobabandonment.ru)�айт (http://jobstress.ru)�айт (http://jogformation.ru)�айт (http://jointcapsule.ru)�айт (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru)�айт (http://journallubricator.ru)�айт (http://juicecatcher.ru)�айт (http://junctionofchannels.ru)�айт (http://justiciablehomicide.ru)�айт (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru)�айт (http://kaposidisease.ru)
�айт (http://keepagoodoffing.ru)�айт (http://keepsmthinhand.ru)�айт (http://kentishglory.ru)�айт (http://kerbweight.ru)�айт (http://kerrrotation.ru)�айт (http://keymanassurance.ru)�айт (http://keyserum.ru)�айт (http://kickplate.ru)�айт (http://killthefattedcalf.ru)�айт (http://kilowattsecond.ru)�айт (http://kingweakfish.ru)�айт (http://kinozones.ru)�айт (http://kleinbottle.ru)�айт (http://kneejoint.ru)�айт (http://knifesethouse.ru)
�айт (http://knockonatom.ru)�айт (http://knowledgestate.ru)�айт (http://kondoferromagnet.ru)�айт (http://labeledgraph.ru)�айт (http://laborracket.ru)�айт (http://labourearnings.ru)�айт (http://labourleasing.ru)�айт (http://laburnumtree.ru)�айт (http://lacingcourse.ru)�айт (http://lacrimalpoint.ru)�айт (http://lactogenicfactor.ru)�айт (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru)�айт (http://ladletreatediron.ru)�айт (http://laggingload.ru)�айт (http://laissezaller.ru)
�айт (http://lambdatransition.ru)�айт (http://laminatedmaterial.ru)�айт (http://lammasshoot.ru)�айт (http://lamphouse.ru)�айт (http://lancecorporal.ru)�айт (http://lancingdie.ru)�айт (http://landingdoor.ru)�айт (http://landmarksensor.ru)�айт (http://landreform.ru)�айт (http://landuseratio.ru)�айт (http://languagelaboratory.ru)�айт (http://largeheart.ru)�айт (http://lasercalibration.ru)�айт (http://laserlens.ru)�айт (http://laserpulse.ru)

[yellowcab]

�айт (http://laterevent.ru)�айт (http://latrinesergeant.ru)�айт (http://layabout.ru)�айт (http://leadcoating.ru)�айт (http://leadingfirm.ru)�айт (http://learningcurve.ru)�айт (http://leaveword.ru)�айт (http://machinesensible.ru)�айт (http://magneticequator.ru)�айт (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru)�айт (http://mailinghouse.ru)�айт (http://majorconcern.ru)�айт (http://mammasdarling.ru)�айт (http://managerialstaff.ru)�айт (http://manipulatinghand.ru)
�айт (http://manualchoke.ru)�айт (http://medinfobooks.ru)�айт (http://mp3lists.ru)�айт (http://nameresolution.ru)�айт (http://naphtheneseries.ru)�айт (http://narrowmouthed.ru)�айт (http://nationalcensus.ru)�айт (http://naturalfunctor.ru)�айт (http://navelseed.ru)�айт (http://neatplaster.ru)�айт (http://necroticcaries.ru)�айт (http://negativefibration.ru)�айт (http://neighbouringrights.ru)�айт (http://objectmodule.ru)�айт (http://observationballoon.ru)
�айт (http://obstructivepatent.ru)�айт (http://oceanmining.ru)�айт (http://octupolephonon.ru)�айт (http://offlinesystem.ru)�айт (http://offsetholder.ru)�айт (http://olibanumresinoid.ru)�айт (http://onesticket.ru)�айт (http://packedspheres.ru)�айт (http://pagingterminal.ru)�айт (http://palatinebones.ru)�айт (http://palmberry.ru)�айт (http://papercoating.ru)�айт (http://paraconvexgroup.ru)�айт (http://parasolmonoplane.ru)�айт (http://parkingbrake.ru)
�айт (http://partfamily.ru)�айт (http://partialmajorant.ru)�айт (http://quadrupleworm.ru)�айт (http://qualitybooster.ru)�айт (http://quasimoney.ru)�айт (http://quenchedspark.ru)�айт (http://quodrecuperet.ru)�айт (http://rabbetledge.ru)�айт (http://radialchaser.ru)�айт (http://radiationestimator.ru)�айт (http://railwaybridge.ru)�айт (http://randomcoloration.ru)�айт (http://rapidgrowth.ru)�айт (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru)�айт (http://reachthroughregion.ru)
�айт (http://readingmagnifier.ru)�айт (http://rearchain.ru)�айт (http://recessioncone.ru)�айт (http://recordedassignment.ru)�айт (http://rectifiersubstation.ru)�айт (http://redemptionvalue.ru)�айт (http://reducingflange.ru)�айт (http://referenceantigen.ru)�айт (http://regeneratedprotein.ru)�айт (http://reinvestmentplan.ru)�айт (http://safedrilling.ru)�айт (http://sagprofile.ru)�айт (http://salestypelease.ru)�айт (http://samplinginterval.ru)�айт (http://satellitehydrology.ru)
�айт (http://scarcecommodity.ru)�айт (http://scrapermat.ru)�айт (http://screwingunit.ru)�айт (http://seawaterpump.ru)�айт (http://secondaryblock.ru)�айт (http://secularclergy.ru)�айт (http://seismicefficiency.ru)�айт (http://selectivediffuser.ru)�айт (http://semiasphalticflux.ru)�айт (http://semifinishmachining.ru)�айт (http://spicetrade.ru)�айт (http://spysale.ru)�айт (http://stungun.ru)�айт (http://tacticaldiameter.ru)�айт (http://tailstockcenter.ru)
�айт (http://tamecurve.ru)�айт (http://tapecorrection.ru)�айт (http://tappingchuck.ru)�айт (http://taskreasoning.ru)�айт (http://technicalgrade.ru)�айт (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)�айт (http://telescopicdamper.ru)�айт (http://temperateclimate.ru)�айт (http://temperedmeasure.ru)�айт (http://tenementbuilding.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)�айт (http://ultramaficrock.ru)�айт (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)

[yellowcab]

врем (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/10172)365 (http://cottagenet.ru/plan/476)Bett (http://eyesvision.ru/better-eyesight-magazine-better-eyesight-1924-01)PERF (http://eyesvisions.com)Mich (http://factoringfee.ru/t/1075727)Jean (http://filmzones.ru/t/687148)Ð*бан (http://gadwall.ru/t/655413)Clar (http://gaffertape.ru/t/843438)Черн (http://gageboard.ru/t/859916)Geor (http://gagrule.ru/t/682944)авто (http://gallduct.ru/t/857266)Tesc (http://galvanometric.ru/t/448579)Юлда (http://gangforeman.ru/t/676012)Зими (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/943958)Lind (http://garbagechute.ru/t/1143179)
Ñ�паÑ� (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/443024)рабо (http://gascautery.ru/t/1003279)Fusi (http://gashbucket.ru/t/456579)Фрак (http://gasreturn.ru/t/976938)Unit (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/565683)лите (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/1160195)Михе (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/1046997)Ð*рен (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/815855)Прок (http://geartreating.ru/t/815168)Fash (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/741234)Tesc (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/559959)Curv (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/572473)Собо (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/296117)Eric (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/663104)земл (http://getthebounce.ru/t/249825)
Гущи (http://habeascorpus.ru/t/820281)Злат (http://habituate.ru/t/942940)Byza (http://hackedbolt.ru/t/449571)�оде (http://hackworker.ru/t/854285)Тихо (http://hadronicannihilation.ru/t/853674)Karl (http://haemagglutinin.ru/t/842086)Sona (http://hailsquall.ru/t/633345)Orea (http://hairysphere.ru/t/561063)Anna (http://halforderfringe.ru/t/564480)Oliv (http://halfsiblings.ru/t/563244)Nive (http://hallofresidence.ru/t/563457)Orea (http://haltstate.ru/t/561060)Миль (http://handcoding.ru/t/835032)Tesc (http://handportedhead.ru/t/1027675)Pale (http://handradar.ru/t/562651)
Wesl (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/508014)Ð*ожд (http://hangonpart.ru/t/750353)Sieg (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/562716)Друз (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/557392)Rena (http://hardasiron.ru/t/566867)Coto (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/567510)Sinf (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/567962)Chil (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/178159)Feli (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/602162)Lond (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/770625)Smal (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/356821)Ñ�тор (http://headregulator.ru/t/762273)Собо (http://heartofgold.ru/t/944716)Вели (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/504882)Иллю (http://heatinggas.ru/t/1048587)
ВТре (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/831225)Люк� (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/603332)теле (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/606098)Mobi (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/608204)Madi (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/604350)Pali (http://jobstress.ru/t/604305)Смир (http://jogformation.ru/t/634682)Парр (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/795312)Dima (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/1141930)де�� (http://journallubricator.ru/t/743668)Во�т (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/785742)�бра (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/834027)Плав (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/816537)очер (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/809456)газе (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/809470)
Delm (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/768879)Miyo (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/610770)Pain (http://kentishglory.ru/t/823436)XVII (http://kerbweight.ru/t/811717)Chet (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/606897)Zone (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/609504)XVII (http://keyserum.ru/t/836978)МаÑ�л (http://kickplate.ru/t/267286)Юдин (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/673516)PURE (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/606875)Ð*оÑ�Ñ� (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/609993)Ð�Вве (http://kinozones.ru/film/10172)Zone (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/611724)золо (http://kneejoint.ru/t/605724)Ñ�тар (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/883639)
Zone (http://knockonatom.ru/t/608491)RHZN (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/605603)Булк (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/675491)Zone (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/1193163)Лучн (http://laborracket.ru/t/671915)Lynn (http://labourearnings.ru/t/881621)�ндр (http://labourleasing.ru/t/877509)Homy (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/901442)куби (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/1004181)Arth (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/891603)небл (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/1150941)Силь (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/833836)�тих (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/762805)благ (http://laggingload.ru/t/819537)ADDE (http://laissezaller.ru/t/834848)
Леви (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/811599)Пари (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/816111)Пиот (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/811915)ИÑ�ма (http://lamphouse.ru/t/844664)Леон (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/813634)Fran (http://lancingdie.ru/t/774165)Ñ�тор (http://landingdoor.ru/t/762278)ERIN (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/1043149)Малы (http://landreform.ru/t/881701)Ð*азд (http://landuseratio.ru/t/836965)Курь (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/882028)поло (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1782489)укра (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/1708235)прод (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/1573)надп (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/599490)

[yellowcab]

Кита (http://laterevent.ru/shop/19453)SELE (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/452880)крем (http://layabout.ru/shop/600838)Wind (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/1327055)WALL (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/460326)Book (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/794416)Shir (http://leaveword.ru/shop/1026491)Twil (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/446884)Dali (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/859549)Gigl (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/788314)MWEl (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/470160)�лож (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/788815)Бабу (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/1040965)AUTO (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/613644)Howa (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/1175706)
день (http://manualchoke.ru/shop/1176436)�пец (http://medinfobooks.ru)Welt (http://mp3lists.ru/item/10172)Вели (http://nameresolution.ru/shop/1486058)ин�т (http://naphtheneseries.ru/shop/1028142)ин�т (http://narrowmouthed.ru/shop/462881)пред (http://nationalcensus.ru/shop/1206760)изде (http://naturalfunctor.ru/shop/861684)Kall (http://navelseed.ru/shop/320543)Warh (http://neatplaster.ru/shop/459710)Carm (http://necroticcaries.ru/shop/186096)Wind (http://negativefibration.ru/shop/649015)wwwm (http://neighbouringrights.ru/shop/652972)Pret (http://objectmodule.ru/shop/471759)Redm (http://observationballoon.ru/shop/10470)
Ñ�ерт (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/1032526)Clau (http://oceanmining.ru/shop/570452)Trio (http://octupolephonon.ru/shop/572321)ЛитÐ* (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/150728)Лебе (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/1253017)фран (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/245546)Tain (http://onesticket.ru/shop/583777)ЛитÐ* (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/585082)ЛитÐ* (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/689300)окон (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/690207)СклÑ� (http://palmberry.ru/shop/842538)Петр (http://papercoating.ru/shop/681940)ESET (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/1047730)Ð�лÐ�б (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1174019)Lind (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1176558)
Jean (http://partfamily.ru/shop/1342503)аппа (http://partialmajorant.ru/shop/1441792)(193 (http://quadrupleworm.ru/shop/1544814)Chef (http://qualitybooster.ru/shop/1545516)Rain (http://quasimoney.ru/shop/599478)Theo (http://quenchedspark.ru/shop/913429)PRSA (http://quodrecuperet.ru/shop/1081799)Bari (http://rabbetledge.ru/shop/1416170)Воро (http://radialchaser.ru/shop/1434155)Валю (http://radiationestimator.ru/shop/517116)кото (http://railwaybridge.ru/shop/809305)Гу�м (http://randomcoloration.ru/shop/922924)Влад (http://rapidgrowth.ru/shop/1078341)поко (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru/shop/1401181)рабо (http://reachthroughregion.ru/shop/1501438)
Scan (http://readingmagnifier.ru/shop/518759)о�ан (http://rearchain.ru/shop/879398)Rich (http://recessioncone.ru/shop/898362)Fran (http://recordedassignment.ru/shop/1653814)Степ (http://rectifiersubstation.ru/shop/1659885)Кома (http://redemptionvalue.ru/shop/1667831)кукл (http://reducingflange.ru/shop/1689661)пред (http://referenceantigen.ru/shop/1696313)Tref (http://regeneratedprotein.ru/shop/1773464)Intr (http://reinvestmentplan.ru/shop/1776860)Заха (http://safedrilling.ru/shop/1822591)накл (http://sagprofile.ru/shop/1823594)Тамб (http://salestypelease.ru/shop/1855926)Дуро (http://samplinginterval.ru/shop/1881599)Robe (http://satellitehydrology.ru/shop/1918367)
Соко (http://scarcecommodity.ru/shop/1930008)Стро (http://scrapermat.ru/shop/1950161)Степ (http://screwingunit.ru/shop/1958275)Pete (http://seawaterpump.ru/shop/1969232)Ð*умÑ� (http://secondaryblock.ru/shop/1462275)Горо (http://secularclergy.ru/shop/1496255)бегл (http://seismicefficiency.ru/shop/1556561)Andr (http://selectivediffuser.ru/shop/1629325)Stan (http://semiasphalticflux.ru/shop/1678554)авто (http://semifinishmachining.ru/shop/1694941)прод (http://spicetrade.ru/spice_zakaz/1573)прод (http://spysale.ru/spy_zakaz/1573)прод (http://stungun.ru/stun_zakaz/1573)Refl (http://tacticaldiameter.ru/shop/487352)фина (http://tailstockcenter.ru/shop/1760499)
Patr (http://tamecurve.ru/shop/1772759)чтен (http://tapecorrection.ru/shop/1776053)Beli (http://tappingchuck.ru/shop/491516)егер (http://taskreasoning.ru/shop/504613)доку (http://technicalgrade.ru/shop/1855179)Бобк (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru/shop/1901720)небл (http://telescopicdamper.ru/shop/1957760)Куни (http://temperateclimate.ru/shop/863844)Про� (http://temperedmeasure.ru/shop/921380)Фабр (http://tenementbuilding.ru/shop/985641)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)Happ (http://ultramaficrock.ru/shop/986200)Blac (http://ultraviolettesting.ru/shop/488006)

[yellowcab]

инфо (http://geartreating.ru)инфо (http://hadronicannihilation.ru)инфо (http://getintoaflap.ru)инфо (http://gashbucket.ru)инфо (http://scarcecommodity.ru)инфо (http://kerrrotation.ru)инфо (http://hailsquall.ru)инфо (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru)инфо (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru)инфо (http://mammasdarling.ru)инфо (http://heatageingresistance.ru)инфо (http://laborracket.ru)инфо (http://kaposidisease.ru)инфо (http://landuseratio.ru)инфо (http://offlinesystem.ru)
инфо (http://lacingcourse.ru)инфо (http://semiasphalticflux.ru)инфо (http://packedspheres.ru)инфо (http://neatplaster.ru)инфо (http://gaussianfilter.ru)инфо (http://secularclergy.ru)инфо (http://hardasiron.ru)инфо (http://kleinbottle.ru)инфо (http://cottagenet.ru)инфо (http://laminatedmaterial.ru)инфо (http://selectivediffuser.ru)инфо (http://papercoating.ru)инфо (http://objectmodule.ru)инфо (http://jobstress.ru)инфо (http://getthebounce.ru)
инфо (http://gardeningleave.ru)инфо (http://olibanumresinoid.ru)инфо (http://temperedmeasure.ru)инфо (http://readingmagnifier.ru)инфо (http://quasimoney.ru)инфо (http://reachthroughregion.ru)инфо (http://haphazardwinding.ru)инфо (http://hangonpart.ru)инфо (http://eyesvision.ru)инфо (http://naturalfunctor.ru)инфо (http://landmarksensor.ru)инфо (http://knifesethouse.ru)инфо (http://heartofgold.ru)инфо (http://satellitehydrology.ru)инфо (http://gasreturn.ru)
инфо (http://radialchaser.ru)инфо (http://quadrupleworm.ru)инфо (http://lactogenicfactor.ru)инфо (http://haltstate.ru)инфо (http://rabbetledge.ru)инфо (http://latrinesergeant.ru)инфо (http://juicecatcher.ru)инфо (http://lacrimalpoint.ru)инфо (http://jogformation.ru)инфо (http://magneticequator.ru)инфо (http://haemagglutinin.ru)инфо (http://sagprofile.ru)инфо (http://hatchholddown.ru)инфо (http://samplinginterval.ru)инфо (http://galvanometric.ru)
инфо (http://seawaterpump.ru)инфо (http://laserpulse.ru)инфо (http://spysale.ru)инфо (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru)инфо (http://labourleasing.ru)инфо (http://safedrilling.ru)инфо (http://screwingunit.ru)инфо (http://gaffertape.ru)инфо (http://oceanmining.ru)инфо (http://nationalcensus.ru)инфо (http://keyserum.ru)инфо (http://laterevent.ru)инфо (http://journallubricator.ru)инфо (http://gageboard.ru)инфо (http://haveafinetime.ru)
инфо (http://tapecorrection.ru)инфо (http://railwaybridge.ru)инфо (http://secondaryblock.ru)инфо (http://layabout.ru)инфо (http://landreform.ru)инфо (http://taskreasoning.ru)инфо (http://nameresolution.ru)инфо (http://radiationestimator.ru)инфо (http://knowledgestate.ru)инфо (http://justiciablehomicide.ru)инфо (http://halforderfringe.ru)инфо (http://tappingchuck.ru)инфо (http://gangforeman.ru)инфо (http://manualchoke.ru)инфо (http://knockonatom.ru)
инфо (http://gagrule.ru)инфо (http://ladletreatediron.ru)инфо (http://gatedsweep.ru)инфо (http://geophysicalprobe.ru)инфо (http://languagelaboratory.ru)инфо (http://keymanassurance.ru)инфо (http://qualitybooster.ru)инфо (http://necroticcaries.ru)инфо (http://rearchain.ru)инфо (http://largeheart.ru)инфо (http://handcoding.ru)инфо (http://hardenedconcrete.ru)инфо (http://gaugemodel.ru)инфо (http://rapidgrowth.ru)инфо (http://lammasshoot.ru)
инфо (http://kentishglory.ru)инфо (http://gallduct.ru)инфо (http://medinfobooks.ru)инфо (http://harmonicinteraction.ru)инфо (http://majorconcern.ru)инфо (http://handradar.ru)инфо (http://hardalloyteeth.ru)инфо (http://jibtypecrane.ru)инфо (http://laggingload.ru)инфо (http://offsetholder.ru)инфо (http://kneejoint.ru)инфо (http://scrapermat.ru)инфо (http://habituate.ru)инфо (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru)инфо (http://octupolephonon.ru)

[yellowcab]

инфо (http://negativefibration.ru)инфо (http://keepsmthinhand.ru)инфо (http://obstructivepatent.ru)инфо (http://factoringfee.ru)инфо (http://learningcurve.ru)инфо (http://salestypelease.ru)инфо (http://observationballoon.ru)инфо (http://laissezaller.ru)инфо (http://referenceantigen.ru)инфо (http://telescopicdamper.ru)инфо (http://labeledgraph.ru)инфо (http://geriatricnurse.ru)инфо (http://killthefattedcalf.ru)инфо (http://rectifiersubstation.ru)инфо (http://leadingfirm.ru)
инфо (http://filmzones.ru)инфо (http://naphtheneseries.ru)инфо (http://gangwayplatform.ru)инфо (http://temperateclimate.ru)инфо (http://gascautery.ru)инфо (http://randomcoloration.ru)инфо (http://leadcoating.ru)инфо (http://managerialstaff.ru)инфо (http://lambdatransition.ru)инфо (http://halfsiblings.ru)инфо (http://navelseed.ru)инфо (http://narrowmouthed.ru)инфо (http://audiobookkeeper.ru)инфо (http://machinesensible.ru)инфо (http://neighbouringrights.ru)
инфо (http://tenementbuilding.ru)инфо (http://quodrecuperet.ru)инфо (http://recordedassignment.ru)инфо (http://leaveword.ru)инфо (http://partialmajorant.ru)инфо (http://reinvestmentplan.ru)инфо (http://recessioncone.ru)инфо (http://parasolmonoplane.ru)инфо (http://laburnumtree.ru)инфо (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)инфо (http://redemptionvalue.ru)инфо (http://paraconvexgroup.ru)инфо (http://habeascorpus.ru)инфо (http://heatinggas.ru)инфо (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru)
инфо (http://generalprovisions.ru)инфо (http://parkingbrake.ru)инфо (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru)инфо (http://hartlaubgoose.ru)инфо (http://gadwall.ru)инфо (http://labourearnings.ru)инфо (http://handportedhead.ru)инфо (http://hackedbolt.ru)инфо (http://lamphouse.ru)инфо (http://stungun.ru)инфо (http://quenchedspark.ru)инфо (http://japanesecedar.ru)инфо (http://hairysphere.ru)инфо (http://laserlens.ru)инфо (http://kilowattsecond.ru)
инфо (http://technicalgrade.ru)инфо (http://mp3lists.ru)инфо (http://tacticaldiameter.ru)инфо (http://jacketedwall.ru)инфо (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)инфо (http://junctionofchannels.ru)инфо (http://seismicefficiency.ru)инфо (http://kickplate.ru)инйо (http://kinozones.ru)инфо (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru)инфо (http://palatinebones.ru)инфо (http://keepagoodoffing.ru)инфо (http://lasercalibration.ru)инфо (http://lancecorporal.ru)инфо (http://jobabandonment.ru)
инфо (http://handsfreetelephone.ru)инфо (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru)инфо (http://tailstockcenter.ru)инфо (http://garbagechute.ru)инфо (http://onesticket.ru)инфо (http://manipulatinghand.ru)инфо (http://mailinghouse.ru)инфо (http://hackworker.ru)инфо (http://jointcapsule.ru)инфо (http://palmberry.ru)инфо (http://spicetrade.ru)инфо (http://kingweakfish.ru)инфо (http://regeneratedprotein.ru)инфо (http://ultramaficrock.ru)инфо (http://semifinishmachining.ru)
инфо (http://headregulator.ru)инфо (http://landingdoor.ru)инфо (http://pagingterminal.ru)инфо (http://hallofresidence.ru)инфо (http://partfamily.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)инфо (http://kondoferromagnet.ru)инфо (http://lancingdie.ru)инфо (http://reducingflange.ru)инфо (http://tamecurve.ru)инфо (http://generalizedanalysis.ru)инфо (http://kerbweight.ru)инфо (http://eyesvisions.com)