Boy Scouts or an alternative?

[JPGreco]

Hey guys, I have a question for some of you more experienced outdoorsmen here.

Without getting too far into a friends personal details, he is interested in getting his kids in the outdoors. Boy Scouts would have been the best option I believe, but the problem is he has his kids every other weekend and then for like 6 weeks over the summer. That makes being an active member in any troop difficult, and it does make some advancement requirements very difficult. Cub scouts is probably not much of an option as the majority of that program is a weekly advancement done with the den. His ex is a homebody and not really an outdoors person and they live about 3 hours apart.

So, where any of you guys in any type of outdoors/scouts/anything that may be able to accommodate a situation like this? His boys are young still, actually too young for boy scouts and only one is old enough for cub scouts. I offered to pick up a boy scout hand book for him and send it on down, as it is full of good info to start into the woods. He wasn't a scout so I don't really know his level of knowledge of the outdoors. I'm an Eagle Scout, but my troop wasn't super heavy into the outdoors skills due to logistics.

I know there is the thread on how you were when you started learning outdoor stuff, but I'm more interested in sources of knowledge for my buddy. I would go camping and such with him, but the 2k miles between us makes it difficult.

Thanks

[Sarge47]

Hey guys, I have a question for some of you more experienced outdoorsmen here.

Without getting too far into a friends personal details, he is interested in getting his kids in the outdoors. Boy Scouts would have been the best option I believe, but the problem is he has his kids every other weekend and then for like 6 weeks over the summer. That makes being an active member in any troop difficult, and it does make some advancement requirements very difficult. Cub scouts is probably not much of an option as the majority of that program is a weekly advancement done with the den. His ex is a homebody and not really an outdoors person and they live about 3 hours apart.

So, where any of you guys in any type of outdoors/scouts/anything that may be able to accommodate a situation like this? His boys are young still, actually too young for boy scouts and only one is old enough for cub scouts. I offered to pick up a boy scout hand book for him and send it on down, as it is full of good info to start into the woods. He wasn't a scout so I don't really know his level of knowledge of the outdoors. I'm an Eagle Scout, but my troop wasn't super heavy into the outdoors skills due to logistics.

I know there is the thread on how you were when you started learning outdoor stuff, but I'm more interested in sources of knowledge for my buddy. I would go camping and such with him, but the 2k miles between us makes it difficult.

Thanks

I fully understand your predicament. My thoughts are to have him buy the 1984 Boy Scout Fieldbook, (it has more outdoors info than the Boy Scout Manual) as well as an older Scout handbook and just start working & learning with them himself. With the seperation of the parents the kids really need to have the time with their dad as the role model teaching them the proper values. Age then wouldn't be a factor. He could start out light, maybe take them on a hike at a local park. Do some "pan-fishing" for Blue Gill. Then do an overnight in the back yard when the weather's nice. As they get older he can teach them more advanced skills. If he doesn't already know them maybe he could find a local friend that does have the experience that wouldn't mind spending some outdoors time with them as well. Just a few ideas. We started taking our son camping when he was around 2 or so. He loved it! :nod:

[WolfVanZandt]

Aye. I believe in the Scouts but they're my second choice. First choice is an active dad - maybe a bunch of active dads that care to know how to act in the outdoors. And there's plenty of information around, for instance, the military survival manuals are all online. And there's this site and others that are quite good. Start easy and move up in difficulty. Instill a good outdoor ethic and a respect for others.

[Echo2]

The Scouts would be a good idea....regardless of schedule.

As active as you can be....they expect no more.

[crashdive123]

Have him contact the local Scout troop or Council and explain the situation. I'll bet they can come up with something that will work out.

[Echo2]

Have him contact the local Scout troop or Council and explain the situation. I'll bet they can come up with something that will work out.

This is the way to go about it.

We have a boy in our Troop that shows up once....twice at best....per month. However he keeps in contact with the Senior Patrol Leader to find out when the camps and events are....then makes arrangements to attend.

[Geek]

It isn't clear to me if the mother would be cooperative or uncooperative in this endeavor, but I would recommend the scouts regardless. I also recommend participating as an adult volunteer. Participating will increase the likelihood of the young person sticking with it and enjoying it, not to mention the outdoor skills the parent picks up.

In this day and age, the sort of family situation you describe is common and the local scout troop may already have experience with such family situations.

[finallyME]

My suggestion depends entirely on the situation with the X. For my scouts, the overwhelming problem is non-present dads, instead of moms. So, the moms want their kids in scouts to compensate. Non of the moms are outdoorsy. But, they want their boys outside, and scouts is a good option for that. So, my suggestion is for the kid to go to his local troop, where his mom lives. He will have more friends from school there, which makes it easier. The dad can fund it (pay for uniforms and equipment), and come on campouts with him. In cub scouts, he can help with the pinewood derby and such. Your friend needs to talk to his ex and discuss the situation.

[kyratshooter]

If his boys are to young for scouts then contacting everyone in town will do not good. They will simply tell him to come back in a few years. Leadership and activities also varry greatly over the nation and you do not always get what you expected from Scouts.

This Dad needs to by gear for family camping and make all his time with the kids count. It might be that they need to look up to Dad, even though he is not around 24/7, rather than a group or organization.

By the time my son was old enough for scouts they held no interest for him. We had spent so much time in the bush that his skills were beyond anything the scouts could offer. As he put it after his second weekly meeting, "You and me can start at the same time the troop starts, go camping for two weeks, come home and clean the gear before those guys finish their food list!" He never went back.

He was invited to join the North American Mountain Men while still a teen, belonged to the Colilition of Historical Trekkers and worked with some of the best outdoorsmen and historians in the nation before he was 18.

Some outfits have no age limits. as long as the parent is present and the kids behave they can participate. Sometimes the clothes look funny but there is no age limit and these folks have woodcraft skills out the wazoo.

http://www.grannylin.com/mc2010/Morgan%20County%20Rendezvous%202010%20HTML/data/index.html

That young lady in the lead photo has been camping primitive since she was in diapers. We have folks from 8 weeks old to 80 years old in the camp, as the photos show. Several families have three generations camping together, and a couple have four generations.

That particular camp has been held for 12 years, incorperates 100 tents and about 300 people and lasts for over a week. We have so much fun that folks actually cry when they take down their tents.

Yep this is the stuff that Me and Hunter and a few others here do with our spare time. We really don't care if the lights go out or not.

[intothenew]

That is the very reason I am a member of this forum. I have limited time with my Grandchildren, and want to use it to the fullest.


I thought a little about the BSA route, and couldn't get it to add up. Age difference, gender difference(another wild card in my circumstance), and the amount of intimate time I would have with each played a role in that decision. Sure, I could volunteer my time to the Cub/Boy/Girl scouts, but I would have been leaving two of the three out at any given time.

I made the decision to "home school". I haven't regretted that decision yet. There are many resources, books mentioned previous, as well as other forums. You don't have to be the sharpest knife in the drawer, or have a script. You just need a love for them, a love for the outdoors, and some curiosity.

As a side benefit, I have grown up a little less this year.

[hunter63]

This is a tough situation, and unfortunately the distances will enter into this.

Does you buddy have and personnel interest?...other than just wanting the kids to enjoy the wild.

Too many parents, want to just "drop the kids off", and take little of their own personnel time.

Organized Scouting has it's place, but the parent(s) have the major input, and must spend the time (hard to do) to make it worth while.

Intothenew does an outstanding job of organizing, making the time for these outdoor activities, from the excellent posts and pics......That is a special relationship and investment in time, that a lot of people may not have the time/or desire to invest.

Seems as they are pretty young, so even a simple 'back yard" activities may be in order to starters.

[Echo2]

If your child is already well versed in the art of bush craft at the age of 6 (Cub Scout age).....then by all means he would be a perfect candidate for Scouts....for the shear amount of leadership training he could gain from being able to help the others with knowledge.

My children were also already avid campers by the time they going in to Scouts...but to say they were proficient in the skills required to be left alone in the wild, would be a stretch at 6 yrs old.

The Scouting programs, are only as good as the folks running the programs. the Mrs and Myself started the Cub Scout Pack in out AO. The best compliment we ever got was when our CS began to Crossover into the BSA....the leaders told us that our boys were on point with most skills needed to advance quickly.

In our council....some of the instructors we have, have pedigrees that rival any outdoors adventure school in the country.

So don't let one persons opinion stray you from exploring the different Scouting opportunities in you area.

If you have any doubts where a life of Scouting could lead your kids....investigate some of the projects that Eagle Scouts have taken on....and realize they have done this before the age of 18.

Ask a college admissions board.....how a Eagle Scout badge looks to them.

The Scouts have been a source of producing men of strong character and moral values for the last 100 years.

I'm not saying they can't get this any where else.....but don't write it off with out looking.

Scouting Statistics:

This has been around quite a while. The number of Scouts who make Eagle changes periodically. The number listed was reported as accurate in 1998. Probably some of the other statistics have changed also, but the impact is still the same.

Of any one hundred boys who become Scouts, it must be confessed that thirty will drop out in their first year. Perhaps this may be regarded as a failure, but later in life, all of these will remember that they had been in Scouting and will speak well of the program.

Of the one hundred, only rarely will one ever appear before a juvenile court judge. Twelve of the one hundred will be from families that belong to no church. Through Scouting, these twelve and many of their families will be brought into contact with a church and will continue to be active all their lives. Six of the one hundred will become pastors.

Each of the one hundred will learn something from Scouting, and all will develop hobbies that will add interest throughout the rest of their lives. Approximately one-half will serve in the military, and in varying degrees, profit from their Scout training. At least one will use it to save another person's life, and many may credit it for saving their own.

Four of the one hundred will reach Eagle rank, and at least one will later say that he valued his Eagle above his college degree. Many will find their future vocation through merit badge work and Scouting contacts. Seventeen of the one hundred boys will become adult leaders and will give leadership to thousands of additional boys.

One in four boys in America will become Scouts, but it is interesting to know that of the leaders of this nation in business, religion and politics, three out of four were Scouts.

This story will never end. Like the 'Golden Pebble' of service dropped into the human sea, it will continue to radiate in ever-widening circles, influencing the characters of men through unending time."

Another way of saying this is:
Of 100 Boys in Scouting -
* Only rarely will one appear in juvenile court.
* 12 will receive their first church contact through Scouting.
* 5 will receive church religious emblems.
* 1 will enter the clergy due to his Scouting relationships.
* 18 will develop hobbies that will give them a lifelong interest.
* 8 will find their future life vocations.
* 1 will use Scout skills to save another's life.
* 1 will credit Scout skills with saving his own life.
* 2 of the 100 will reach the Eagle Rank.
* 17 will later become leaders in Scouting and will pass on their skills, inspiration and leadership to countless youth.

A comparative study of the records of Scouts and non-Scouts in a sampling of schools and colleges shows that Scouts hold most of the major positions of leadership in the student body. The survey resulted in the following statistics in regard to school officers bearing a large amount of responsibility.
* Of senior class presidents, 89% were Scouts.
* Of junior class presidents, 80% were Scouts.
* Of business managers of school publications, 75% were Scouts.
* Of student council presidents, 85% were Scouts.
* Of school newspaper editors, 88% were Scouts.
* Of editors of school annuals, 77% were Scouts.
* Of basketball captains, 64% were Scouts.

Numbered among the alumni of the Boy Scouts of America are:
* 64% of Air Force Academy graduates.
* 58% of West Point graduates.
* 70% of Annapolis graduates.
* 72% of Rhodes scholars.
* 85% of FBI agents.
* 26% of the 29 U.S. astronauts.

This list is an older list....but you get the idea...

[Geek]

For those who are unfamiliar with the scouts, it is important to understand what the scouts actually are. The scouts are a leadership training program. The camping and outdoors programs are intended to give the training a fun setting, and teach some useful skills, but the point is leadership training. A kid who is successful in scouts will not be a delinquent, and may even keep other kids out of trouble and will grow up to be a responsible adult.

I think everyone here would want that for their children and grandchildren.

[h3nchm3n81]

I think I need to agree with the majority of responses to this thread. The dad needs to be the main source of outdoor education. If he doesn't have the knowledge then I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find someone to show him. BSA is a good group. My father is an Eagle Scout and I learned a lot of what I know from him and my grandfather at an early age. The BSA troops in my area haven't been very strong, in my opinion, which is why I work with a group similar to BSA called Royal Rangers. Same basic premise as BSA, earn merits based on skills and knowledge that will enable the boys to grow into strong, respectable, responsible men.

I'm sure that if your friend was willing to have his general location released that someone on this forum would likely know someone near that area who would have a strong skill set and be willing to help teach the dad/kids.

Never underestimate the power of positive time spent with your kids.

[Blade]

Aye. I believe in the Scouts but they're my second choice. First choice is an active dad - maybe a bunch of active dads that care to know how to act in the outdoors. And there's plenty of information around, for instance, the military survival manuals are all online. And there's this site and others that are quite good. Start easy and move up in difficulty. Instill a good outdoor ethic and a respect for others.

I agree with the "active Dad" BUT.......he can havre both. The Boy Scouts are a great organization and Dad can become a Boy Scout leader or at least become active in their activities. Unless things have changed since my scouting days it was a great way to help young boys develop good character and traits. Too bad more kids aren't in scouts and chose to sit home on the couch playing video games and only developing health problems.

[karatediver]

I would discuss your situation with the local scout council. I've seen some creative ways to work around these situations. It is important to remember that Boyscouts is not a parent and child program. Cub Scouts can be but by the time they are boy scout age it is time for them to step up and become leaders which is why the good troops follow the scouting plan and are boy run and boy led. Not all troops follow the rules though. The best bet is to visit some of them, explain your situation and see what they say. Like I stated earlier, your situation is not unique. In our area there were no Tiger Cub dens for cub scouts so they let us register my son as a lone scout. He met with the local pack for some activities but did a lot of stuff at home. Your council may be able to do something similar for your situation. You may also want to find out about the troops near your ex's home. There could be something just down the road that your boys can walk to once a week. Talk to the scoutmaster there and explain the problem. I've seen some creative things done to work around these situations.

I will say that without scouting I would not be the man I am today. It was the defining experience of my pre-teen and teen years. I owe a lot to those leaders who gave of their time and in many cases personal funds so I could have experiences that I could not have otherwise. My brother and I were both Eagle Scouts and my oldest is a cub scout now. My second oldest son gets to start next year in cubs. I learned more useful things in my time in scouting than all the time I spent in highschool. I learned about the government, service, the community, law enforcement, art, the outdoors, cooking, camping, safety, first aid, and a bunch of other great skills that I still have because of scouting. It isn't just a camping program. My first opportunities at leadership came in scouting. Reaching the highest rank of Eagle also has some advantages. It looks good on college and job applications. It also is great for networking as an adult. I meet people all the time that are Eagle Scouts in the community and business. We have that instant connection from the shared experience. The military also gives advanced enlisted rank for being an Eagle Scout also in recognition of the experience that scouting gives young men. I know a retired Army First Sergeant who was a scout. He only made it to Life rank but we often talk about our shared scouting experience and love of the program. It has been the one big thing we have in common and we have that connection we wouldn't have had otherwise. My old scoutmaster is still a good friend I see nearly every week. He was a former green beret in Vietnam who I have learned so much from over the years. Without scouting that would never have happened.

[JPGreco]

Wow, I wasn't expecting this big of a reply and I need to read through all of this more carefully. I really appreciate the feedback though. I only briefly read posts and I can tell there is an immense amount of great info here for my buddy. You guys are AWESOME!

I just wanted to pop in to express my appreciation since replying will take some time.

Thanks again everyone. And I'll try to organize some more about him in regards to some of the ideas expressed to help you guys give anymore advice.

[Psalm25]

Aye. I believe in the Scouts but they're my second choice. First choice is an active dad - maybe a bunch of active dads that care to know how to act in the outdoors. And there's plenty of information around, for instance, the military survival manuals are all online. And there's this site and others that are quite good. Start easy and move up in difficulty. Instill a good outdoor ethic and a respect for others.

X2.

If he only gets a limited amount of time with his kids I personally would want to use that time to be with them. a group of dad's and their kids can have a great time together. I look back on my childhood and I would not trade the time I got to spend with my dad for anything in the world. He taught me everything I know. Every weekend we would be going fishing, hiking, canoeing, target shooting, gathering wild edibles. We would always be getting together with my other friends and their dads to go on big camping trips or entering every fishing derby that came about. Looking back if my dad had limited time to spend with me and rather than spending that time with me he would have put me in scouts... it would not mean the same to me. Everything I do outdoors is a passion because it all reminds me of my dad, and now I am passing all that down to my children. The looks on their faces when I tell them stories of things my dad and I use to do and encounters we had is priceless. I am also able to tell them stories that my dad told me he did with his father. I know some day they will be doing the same with their children. I think it is very important for a father to teach this stuff to their kids. I'm sure there are many other fathers in your friends area who would love to take their kids and join in for camping trips, canoe trips, fishing trips, hikes ect.

[WolfVanZandt]

I agree with the "active Dad" BUT.......he can havre both. The Boy Scouts are a great organization and Dad can become a Boy Scout leader or at least become active in their activities.

Absolutely true, in fact, the Scouting District offers training to him for outdoor activities and leadership roles if he volunteers his time as a leader.

[JPGreco]

Ok, so I got a chance to read and reread the posts.

I should be taking to my buddy either tonight or in the next couple of nights. I don't want to release too much of his personal life here, as its not my right to do so obviously.

I'm happy to hear from some of you that BSA troops you're involved in have gotten creative to accommodate such situations. I'm not sure if his ex would be supportive or vindictive about the boys attending something that dad wants them to go to, which is unfortunate in many ways and only the children suffer in these cases. I will definitely recommend contacting BSA troops when the boys are older if they are interested in such a program. I will also recommend to my buddy that he should get involved. My father was den father when I was a Weblo and was the cub scout master. Then in BSA he was a volunteer as well, so it was great to spend that time with him, even though I really didn't spend my time directly with him during scouts.

The other suggestions are excellent as well. Obviously with younger children, what he can do is limited to some degree, but the basics are definitely available to him. I love the idea of getting some of the older manuals for skill sets to work on and if he agrees to it, I'll ask if there is anyone in his general area that he may be able to look to for advice or events that would be of interest to him.

To be honest, I jumped the gun on him as I'm not even sure what his skill set is or even some of his beliefs. I know I had a pocket knife at an early age, but I don't know his opinion on a knife for his kids. I have friends who don't even want to touch a gun, but I fired my first .22 and shotgun at a BSA summer camp.


I appreciate all the input from everyone. I know helping him in any area makes things a bit easier on him with all the bull that's going on.

[Geek]

He doesn't need any skill to be a volunteer. All he needs is to be willing to spend time with the scouts, and if he wants to pick up some new skills he can do that after he gets involved.

For example, I was one of the more active adults when my son was in the scouts, but not the scoutmaster. One day a group of the older scouts approached me about going to SeaBase, which is a High Adventure Scout Camp that features sailing and scuba diving. The kids had given this some thought and figured out that among the adults, I was the best swimmer, having been a lifeguard as a teenager myself. They wanted to go scuba diving and wanted me as the adult. I agreed and we all took scuba certification classes together.

Ultimately, I became a rescue diver, mixed gas diver, decompression diver, etc. I've got several hundred logged dives. I never would have considered taking up scuba except for the scouts. Scouts are a lot of fun, and I don't mean just for the kids.

[Echo2]

Scouts are a lot of fun, and I don't mean just for the kids.

Amen....:)

[Psalm25]

Ok, so I got a chance to read and reread the posts.

I should be taking to my buddy either tonight or in the next couple of nights. I don't want to release too much of his personal life here, as its not my right to do so obviously.

I'm happy to hear from some of you that BSA troops you're involved in have gotten creative to accommodate such situations. I'm not sure if his ex would be supportive or vindictive about the boys attending something that dad wants them to go to, which is unfortunate in many ways and only the children suffer in these cases. I will definitely recommend contacting BSA troops when the boys are older if they are interested in such a program. I will also recommend to my buddy that he should get involved. My father was den father when I was a Weblo and was the cub scout master. Then in BSA he was a volunteer as well, so it was great to spend that time with him, even though I really didn't spend my time directly with him during scouts.

The other suggestions are excellent as well. Obviously with younger children, what he can do is limited to some degree, but the basics are definitely available to him. I love the idea of getting some of the older manuals for skill sets to work on and if he agrees to it, I'll ask if there is anyone in his general area that he may be able to look to for advice or events that would be of interest to him.

To be honest, I jumped the gun on him as I'm not even sure what his skill set is or even some of his beliefs. I know I had a pocket knife at an early age, but I don't know his opinion on a knife for his kids. I have friends who don't even want to touch a gun, but I fired my first .22 and shotgun at a BSA summer camp.


I appreciate all the input from everyone. I know helping him in any area makes things a bit easier on him with all the bull that's going on.

Just on a side note, it is his right to see his children and enroll them in healthy activities like the scouts if he chooses to. If the ex thinks she runs the show just because she has the kids most of the time, he needs to have a good lawyer write a little warning letter to her reminding her the healthy activities he chooses on his time is his choice. If she still doesn't listen then court is the best option for equal responsibility. (ER only affects major choices for the children, no court is going to say boy scouts and such is not in the children's best interest) I don't imagine US law is much different than Canadian law in these matters... worth a call to a good lawyer to find out what can be done to shut her up.

[nwioltd]

Have you tried Meetup.com. Look under hiking or camping or backpacking. Whatever you are interested in. They have all kind of groups on there. I started an Outdoor group on there in 2009. Now we have our own website. We teach people how to do things outdoors like hiking, camping, backpacking, canoeing, etc. Hope this helps.

[SQWERL]

adventurescoutsusa.org is an alternative to BSA. and it is for boys and girls. just a thought. wish it was around when i was younger. we didn't do anything in girlscouts but sell stupid cookies. and camp was a joke. we stayed in concrete buildings and the only "primitive thing" was the pit toilet. we did more outdoorsy stuff at 4-H camp. if there is 4-H in NY that would also be something to think about too.

[Geek]

adventurescoutsusa.org is an alternative to BSA. and it is for boys and girls. just a thought. wish it was around when i was younger. we didn't do anything in girlscouts but sell stupid cookies. and camp was a joke. we stayed in concrete buildings and the only "primitive thing" was the pit toilet. we did more outdoorsy stuff at 4-H camp. if there is 4-H in NY that would also be something to think about too.

Good point. In many other countries the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts have been integrated into a single organization. Here in the US they continue to be seperate and most of the posts here apply to the Boy Scouts. Many in the Boy Scouts have felt that girls would benefit from the leadership training that the Boy Scouts provide, but the Girl Scouts have wanted to keep the programs seperate and have not wanted to integrate. The Boy Scouts also run some Explorer programs that are open to girls and are career oriented, but the main programs are still seperate and will remain so as long as the Girl Scouts want it that way. The Boy Scouts could just open their program, but have no wish to destroy the existing Girl Scout program and fear that would be the result. As a result, the two programs continue to operate side by side but are not the same in their purpose.

I don't want to knock the Girl Scouts, but I do think it would be best for Girls if they merged with the Boy Scouts.

[finallyME]

For those who are unfamiliar with the scouts, it is important to understand what the scouts actually are. The scouts are a leadership training program. The camping and outdoors programs are intended to give the training a fun setting, and teach some useful skills, but the point is leadership training. A kid who is successful in scouts will not be a delinquent, and may even keep other kids out of trouble and will grow up to be a responsible adult.

I think everyone here would want that for their children and grandchildren.

This is something that I want to stress. BSA isn't an outdoor program with the purpose of teaching outdoor skills. It is a leadership program designed to train boys into being moral, ethical leaders of the community. The outdoors is a tool that BSA uses to accomplish this goal. Boys just listen better when they are sitting by a campfire.
If outdoor skills is the goal, then one-on-one time with dad is the answer. No program will do a better job. As a scoutmaster, I try to teach my scouts as many skills as I can. But, the ones that become proficient are the ones that spend time with dad in the woods.

[Faiaoga]

adventurescoutsusa.org is an alternative to BSA. and it is for boys and girls. just a thought. wish it was around when i was younger. we didn't do anything in girlscouts but sell stupid cookies. and camp was a joke. we stayed in concrete buildings and the only "primitive thing" was the pit toilet. we did more outdoorsy stuff at 4-H camp. if there is 4-H in NY that would also be something to think about too.

I am not familiar with Adventure Scouts and I have never participated in 4-H, but useful advice given here seems to be that there are many options. The Scouting movement is designed for young people with adult advisors. You might look into other possibilities for both youth and adults. I am familiar with tbe Sierra Club that posts a schedule of trips and has an informal structure that wil allow you and your child to go outdoors when you visit him. There are probably East Coast equivalents of the Sierra Club that you can look into and programs such as Outward Bound for vacation times; check the quality and the costs but there seem to be many options. Faiaoga
:shifty:

[Echo2]

This is something that I want to stress. BSA isn't an outdoor program with the purpose of teaching outdoor skills. It is a leadership program designed to train boys into being moral, ethical leaders of the community. The outdoors is a tool that BSA uses to accomplish this goal. Boys just listen better when they are sitting by a campfire.
If outdoor skills is the goal, then one-on-one time with dad is the answer. No program will do a better job. As a scoutmaster, I try to teach my scouts as many skills as I can. But, the ones that become proficient are the ones that spend time with dad in the woods.

Correct.....nothing can replace parental involvement.....Scouts just helps with some directions.....:)

[Blade]

Absolutely true, in fact, the Scouting District offers training to him for outdoor activities and leadership roles if he volunteers his time as a leader.

I wonder if they would let someone as crazy as me go through the training? I might indimidate some of the instructors with my extreme survival techniques. It would be fun to revisit my fond memories of being a Boy Scout.

[Geek]

I wonder if they would let someone as crazy as me go through the training? I might indimidate some of the instructors with my extreme survival techniques. It would be fun to revisit my fond memories of being a Boy Scout.

Background checks are performed. :-)

[Echo2]

Background checks are performed. :-)

And "Youth Protection"..."Two deep Leadership".....

They are down with doing the "high adventure" stuff.....but they want it done safely for sure.

[Echo2]

I wonder if they would let someone as crazy as me go through the training? I might indimidate some of the instructors with my extreme survival techniques. It would be fun to revisit my fond memories of being a Boy Scout.

Define "extreme"

[hunter63]

Not to bad mouth scouting....but something to consider.

I'm not sure where the BSA is heading these days.......
Back in my scouting days, pack and troops were sponsored by church, companies, and other organizations that had political ties......You take the money, you follow their spin.

My cub scout days ended when my father became aware that we were being used as delivery boys for political posters, during a campaign....kinda a stretch on the "for country"......Theme.

Boy Scouts were more religious extensions of a local church......again, they put up them money....so that's how it went.

Beginning my work "official" career at 11 years,(paper route) my time was kinda limited, but my experience in scouting, did show me that peoples intentions, looked good on the surface, but had an agenda.

Most all my outdoors (and life) experience was through MM, MF, GF, uncles, and self taught w/friends, (reading, trying, doing).

My kids didn't 'join" much and did not take part in scouting.......They were camping primitive, throwing knives/hawks, shooting, starting fires with flint and steel, wearing buck skins and cooking over an open fire.....or hunting/fishing with us DW and I, along with extended family.....and a lot of tempory exrta kids that always seemed to tag along......

How old does a kid have to be when you say yes, when you hear, "Dad, can I borrow the canoe....Jimmy and I want to go fishing....."

Just something to keep in mind.

[JPGreco]

I'm well aware of what BSA is, being a former member and an Eagle Scout. Hunter, I'm sorry that your experience was the way it was. The church that sponsored my troop was rarely involved. Actually, the leader of the church's only role was when we had a major ceremony we used the church and he would say a few words, otherwise, we were in the local elementary school.

I'm sure for now he's gonna take the personal route. I looked up his area and there is an awesome looking nature reserve about an hour from him, so that should offer ample opportunity. Hell, I may even point him here if he's looking to learn skills. I know I learned a ton.

[Echo2]

Our Church sponsor is relatively separate from our activities. We specifically told them before we chartered with them....that we can not be denominational.

They were still more than happy to help the Scouts.....and it has never been an issue.

[grokh5499]

In our area there were no Tiger Cub dens for cub scouts so they let us register my son as a lone scout.

In Girl Scouts they are called Juliette’s. It is an option for those who want to do girl scout activities without being attached to a troop, those who can’t find a troop that works with there schedule, or when there just aren’t’ enough troops. Unfortunately most parents in my area are advised that they probably will need to step up as a leader in order to get their girl into Girl Scouts.



we didn't do anything in girl scouts but sell stupid cookies. and camp was a joke.

Every troop is different. Some , mostly because the leaders don’t want too, the closest they come to camping is a hotel. Others do the primitive camping , hiking thing. You have to look for a troop that actively camps. On a side note, I am trying as a fairly new GS leader not to be on of those troops that only sells cookies!! Actually how I found this thread!



adventurescoutsusa.org is an alternative to BSA, and it is for boys and girls.

I was ecstatic when I heard about this option at my Girl Scout outdoor training, then bummed the next second when I found out it starts for girls in the 8th grade. :( I have 3 more years to wait…. Buy then my youngest will be old enough to start GS so I might find myself being actively involved in both groups even though I have no boys!!!

Note:
Effective May 1, 2010, the minimum age requirement to join and participate in Venturing/Sea Scouting has changed to 14 years of age, or 13 years of age and completion of the eighth grade. The maximum age for participation remains under 21 years of age. ( taken from:
http://www.scouting.org/Youth/ContinueAdventure/Venturing.aspx


In our area there were no Tiger Cub dens

As a child growing up there were no girl scout troops in my area either. However in high school my mom signed me up for Campfire Boys and Girls. It might be another option.

[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

пред (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/9966)196.8 (http://cottagenet.ru/plan/270)CHAP (http://eyesvision.ru/strengtheningeyes/17)Bett (http://eyesvisions.com)Erle (http://factoringfee.ru/t/742441)Холл (http://filmzones.ru/t/253223)MARV (http://gadwall.ru/t/354117)�туд (http://gaffertape.ru/t/597267)Йонн (http://gageboard.ru/t/783840)ле�о (http://gagrule.ru/t/299255)�елю (http://gallduct.ru/t/810662)Rond (http://galvanometric.ru/t/391888)�рти (http://gangforeman.ru/t/302727)Клин (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/442900)Шишо (http://garbagechute.ru/t/955450)
�бр� (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/263681)Павл (http://gascautery.ru/t/819407)лекц (http://gashbucket.ru/t/299520)вузо (http://gasreturn.ru/t/831092)Vali (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/559252)Бахм (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/816777)Бела (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/786778)Diet (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/674534)Cham (http://geartreating.ru/t/577195)fren (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/568041)gree (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/558990)Инди (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/559636)Patr (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/139570)Caud (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/139642)Ahav (http://getthebounce.ru/t/138366)
John (http://habeascorpus.ru/t/662665)Хайе (http://habituate.ru/t/743872)Patr (http://hackedbolt.ru/t/355071)Ð*оÑ�Ñ� (http://hackworker.ru/t/670297)Pier (http://hadronicannihilation.ru/t/664402)изда (http://haemagglutinin.ru/t/660384)Ñ�ерт (http://hailsquall.ru/t/142171)Nive (http://hairysphere.ru/t/449745)Patr (http://halforderfringe.ru/t/561343)Nive (http://halfsiblings.ru/t/562313)Flax (http://hallofresidence.ru/t/562460)Gill (http://haltstate.ru/t/449744)Disn (http://handcoding.ru/t/639622)Сини (http://handportedhead.ru/t/845791)Garn (http://handradar.ru/t/561729)
Dove (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/138232)Мень (http://hangonpart.ru/t/319395)Bill (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/504205)Кара (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/363297)Silv (http://hardasiron.ru/t/362524)Grim (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/566564)чита (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/396327)Stig (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/140961)Mich (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/514646)Flam (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/519265)Nint (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/164265)Крех (http://headregulator.ru/t/303299)Соде (http://heartofgold.ru/t/672202)Zigl (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/357622)Elfr (http://heatinggas.ru/t/781064)
Tenc (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/617860)Niki (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/602548)shin (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/601466)карм (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/606088)Sela (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/603112)доку (http://jobstress.ru/t/603094)Step (http://jogformation.ru/t/607658)проф (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/654782)Joha (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/771910)Пете (http://journallubricator.ru/t/299218)Firs (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/528079)Dale (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/373586)Deco (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/343514)Хими (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/344572)Леон (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/478403)
Eros (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/638746)кара (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/609902)Gord (http://kentishglory.ru/t/664411)Know (http://kerbweight.ru/t/534548)Белл (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/478306)Mike (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/336199)ФФог (http://keyserum.ru/t/671236)11,3 (http://kickplate.ru/t/157811)02-1 (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/604820)3202 (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/605624)Zone (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/608915)филь (http://kinozones.ru/film/9966)diam (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/610811)Zone (http://kneejoint.ru/t/604961)Zone (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/611697)
PURE (http://knockonatom.ru/t/607019)Zone (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/604752)Плат (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/657925)Pete (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/1003610)фору (http://laborracket.ru/t/158022)Toni (http://labourearnings.ru/t/323583)Ð*ебр (http://labourleasing.ru/t/492718)Муха (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/810179)Brad (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/751571)иллю (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/811834)Ñ�лов (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/763341)поÑ�Ñ‚ (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/479501)Herb (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/296393)Saus (http://laggingload.ru/t/468260)Nico (http://laissezaller.ru/t/468675)
Herb (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/340027)лучш (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/342847)(МИФ (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/480037)Danc (http://lamphouse.ru/t/537448)Медв (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/468102)Меже (http://lancingdie.ru/t/294713)Во�т (http://landingdoor.ru/t/420082)Френ (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/682587)Берн (http://landreform.ru/t/672695)XVII (http://landuseratio.ru/t/479554)преп (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/713898)�тил (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1163760)фарф (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/1537672)micr (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/1366)поло (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/591800)

[yellowcab]

Pago (http://laterevent.ru/shop/1194802)Cand (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/452565)Intr (http://layabout.ru/shop/600490)Иллю (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/1038630)Robb (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/389644)Кита (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/669748)ZS-0 (http://leaveword.ru/shop/1026018)пла� (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/446072)ETCS (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/673179)Mart (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/576781)Слаб (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/270567)резу (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/788414)пере (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/788930)ARAG (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/613127)войн (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/1175394)
знач (http://manualchoke.ru/shop/1175583)SIRD (http://medinfobooks.ru/book/3250)FLAC (http://mp3lists.ru/item/9966)Vali (http://nameresolution.ru/shop/1151597)М�80 (http://naphtheneseries.ru/shop/912196)John (http://narrowmouthed.ru/shop/462484)рабо (http://nationalcensus.ru/shop/1056464)Барх (http://naturalfunctor.ru/shop/632819)�зык (http://navelseed.ru/shop/104209)Litt (http://neatplaster.ru/shop/456794)Sale (http://necroticcaries.ru/shop/185662)wwwm (http://negativefibration.ru/shop/641766)Deac (http://neighbouringrights.ru/shop/652419)Обла (http://objectmodule.ru/shop/471425)Kenw (http://observationballoon.ru/shop/10156)
Ñ�ерт (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/458034)Play (http://oceanmining.ru/shop/570080)Magi (http://octupolephonon.ru/shop/571728)ЛитÐ* (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/150220)ЛитÐ* (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/204654)вузо (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/204435)worl (http://onesticket.ru/shop/582888)Fore (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/584662)ЛитÐ* (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/688442)заве (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/687987)Ð�уди (http://palmberry.ru/shop/690692)Сапр (http://papercoating.ru/shop/585780)прав (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/956379)Изра (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1173214)Ð�Ð�Бл (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1174176)
Ð*ови (http://partfamily.ru/shop/1228082)одна (http://partialmajorant.ru/shop/1176524)IDEO (http://quadrupleworm.ru/shop/1544128)Grou (http://qualitybooster.ru/shop/1543965)Щедр (http://quasimoney.ru/shop/598655)личн (http://quenchedspark.ru/shop/863633)разн (http://quodrecuperet.ru/shop/1080394)DECT (http://rabbetledge.ru/shop/1082764)Лине (http://radialchaser.ru/shop/1214015)ИÑ�по (http://radiationestimator.ru/shop/512328)Зуйк (http://railwaybridge.ru/shop/665917)МГор (http://randomcoloration.ru/shop/914258)Ð�лек (http://rapidgrowth.ru/shop/1077187)Белю (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru/shop/1400764)Jacq (http://reachthroughregion.ru/shop/1401040)
DZEN (http://readingmagnifier.ru/shop/516442)Чижо (http://rearchain.ru/shop/878945)Спив (http://recessioncone.ru/shop/879678)Ермо (http://recordedassignment.ru/shop/1040794)Lloy (http://rectifiersubstation.ru/shop/1658926)Mary (http://redemptionvalue.ru/shop/1064969)Море (http://reducingflange.ru/shop/1687968)Крыл (http://referenceantigen.ru/shop/1695003)Bill (http://regeneratedprotein.ru/shop/1772856)Dani (http://reinvestmentplan.ru/shop/1776307)�рта (http://safedrilling.ru/shop/1821913)Сотн (http://sagprofile.ru/shop/1346299)Дани (http://salestypelease.ru/shop/1855135)Rodn (http://samplinginterval.ru/shop/1880925)Гори (http://satellitehydrology.ru/shop/1915833)
музы (http://scarcecommodity.ru/shop/1929640)�еру (http://scrapermat.ru/shop/1941306)Ветр (http://screwingunit.ru/shop/1957602)Вене (http://seawaterpump.ru/shop/1640010)дете (http://secondaryblock.ru/shop/1460826)�лек (http://secularclergy.ru/shop/1494721)Заха (http://seismicefficiency.ru/shop/396507)XVII (http://selectivediffuser.ru/shop/404645)Каба (http://semiasphalticflux.ru/shop/1667813)авто (http://semifinishmachining.ru/shop/1693730)micr (http://spicetrade.ru/spice_zakaz/1366)micr (http://spysale.ru/spy_zakaz/1366)micr (http://stungun.ru/stun_zakaz/1366)Digi (http://tacticaldiameter.ru/shop/486097)�зык (http://tailstockcenter.ru/shop/497112)
Comi (http://tamecurve.ru/shop/501332)Коро (http://tapecorrection.ru/shop/1775096)Scho (http://tappingchuck.ru/shop/490658)Flas (http://taskreasoning.ru/shop/502459)Ерма (http://technicalgrade.ru/shop/1854045)Robe (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru/shop/1901336)Ишим (http://telescopicdamper.ru/shop/1932170)твор (http://temperateclimate.ru/shop/807075)Спив (http://temperedmeasure.ru/shop/910211)comp (http://tenementbuilding.ru/shop/983840)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)Клим (http://ultramaficrock.ru/shop/985063)Blac (http://ultraviolettesting.ru/shop/486536)

[yellowcab]

http://geartreating.ruhttp://hadronicannihilation.ruhttp://getintoaflap.ruhttp://gashbucket.ruhttp://scarcecommodity.ruhttp://kerrrotation.ruhttp://hailsquall.ruhttp://heavydutymetalcutting.ruhttp://hazardousatmosphere.ruhttp://mammasdarling.ruhttp://heatageingresistance.ruhttp://laborracket.ruhttp://kaposidisease.ruhttp://landuseratio.ruhttp://offlinesystem.ru
http://lacingcourse.ruhttp://semiasphalticflux.ruhttp://packedspheres.ruhttp://neatplaster.ruhttp://gaussianfilter.ruhttp://secularclergy.ruhttp://hardasiron.ruhttp://kleinbottle.ruhttp://cottagenet.ruhttp://laminatedmaterial.ruhttp://selectivediffuser.ruhttp://papercoating.ruhttp://objectmodule.ruhttp://jobstress.ruhttp://getthebounce.ru
http://gardeningleave.ruhttp://olibanumresinoid.ruhttp://temperedmeasure.ruhttp://readingmagnifier.ruhttp://quasimoney.ruhttp://reachthroughregion.ruhttp://haphazardwinding.ruhttp://hangonpart.ruhttp://eyesvision.ruhttp://naturalfunctor.ruhttp://landmarksensor.ruhttp://knifesethouse.ruhttp://heartofgold.ruhttp://satellitehydrology.ruhttp://gasreturn.ru
http://radialchaser.ruhttp://quadrupleworm.ruhttp://lactogenicfactor.ruhttp://haltstate.ruhttp://rabbetledge.ruhttp://latrinesergeant.ruhttp://juicecatcher.ruhttp://lacrimalpoint.ruhttp://jogformation.ruhttp://magneticequator.ruhttp://haemagglutinin.ruhttp://sagprofile.ruhttp://hatchholddown.ruhttp://samplinginterval.ruhttp://galvanometric.ru
http://seawaterpump.ruhttp://laserpulse.ruhttp://spysale.ruhttp://rattlesnakemaster.ruhttp://labourleasing.ruhttp://safedrilling.ruhttp://screwingunit.ruhttp://gaffertape.ruhttp://oceanmining.ruhttp://nationalcensus.ruhttp://keyserum.ruhttp://laterevent.ruhttp://journallubricator.ruhttp://gageboard.ruhttp://haveafinetime.ru
http://tapecorrection.ruhttp://railwaybridge.ruhttp://secondaryblock.ruhttp://layabout.ruhttp://landreform.ruhttp://taskreasoning.ruhttp://nameresolution.ruhttp://radiationestimator.ruhttp://knowledgestate.ruhttp://justiciablehomicide.ruhttp://halforderfringe.ruhttp://tappingchuck.ruhttp://gangforeman.ruhttp://manualchoke.ruhttp://knockonatom.ru
http://gagrule.ruhttp://ladletreatediron.ruhttp://gatedsweep.ruhttp://geophysicalprobe.ruhttp://languagelaboratory.ruhttp://keymanassurance.ruhttp://qualitybooster.ruhttp://necroticcaries.ruhttp://rearchain.ruhttp://largeheart.ruhttp://handcoding.ruhttp://hardenedconcrete.ruhttp://gaugemodel.ruhttp://rapidgrowth.ruhttp://lammasshoot.ru
http://kentishglory.ruhttp://gallduct.ruhttp://medinfobooks.ruhttp://harmonicinteraction.ruhttp://majorconcern.ruhttp://handradar.ruhttp://hardalloyteeth.ruhttp://jibtypecrane.ruhttp://laggingload.ruhttp://offsetholder.ruhttp://kneejoint.ruhttp://scrapermat.ruhttp://habituate.ruhttp://jointsealingmaterial.ruhttp://octupolephonon.ru

[yellowcab]

http://negativefibration.ruhttp://keepsmthinhand.ruhttp://obstructivepatent.ruhttp://factoringfee.ruhttp://learningcurve.ruhttp://salestypelease.ruhttp://observationballoon.ruhttp://laissezaller.ruhttp://referenceantigen.ruhttp://telescopicdamper.ruhttp://labeledgraph.ruhttp://geriatricnurse.ruhttp://killthefattedcalf.ruhttp://rectifiersubstation.ruhttp://leadingfirm.ru
http://filmzones.ruhttp://naphtheneseries.ruhttp://gangwayplatform.ruhttp://temperateclimate.ruhttp://gascautery.ruhttp://randomcoloration.ruhttp://leadcoating.ruhttp://managerialstaff.ruhttp://lambdatransition.ruhttp://halfsiblings.ruhttp://navelseed.ruhttp://narrowmouthed.ruhttp://audiobookkeeper.ruhttp://machinesensible.ruhttp://neighbouringrights.ru
http://tenementbuilding.ruhttp://quodrecuperet.ruhttp://recordedassignment.ruhttp://leaveword.ruhttp://partialmajorant.ruhttp://reinvestmentplan.ruhttp://recessioncone.ruhttp://parasolmonoplane.ruhttp://laburnumtree.ruhttp://telangiectaticlipoma.ruhttp://redemptionvalue.ruhttp://paraconvexgroup.ruhttp://habeascorpus.ruhttp://heatinggas.ruhttp://magnetotelluricfield.ru
http://generalprovisions.ruhttp://parkingbrake.ruhttp://juxtapositiontwin.ruhttp://hartlaubgoose.ruhttp://gadwall.ruhttp://labourearnings.ruhttp://handportedhead.ruhttp://hackedbolt.ruhttp://lamphouse.ruhttp://stungun.ruhttp://quenchedspark.ruhttp://japanesecedar.ruhttp://hairysphere.ruhttp://laserlens.ruhttp://kilowattsecond.ru
http://technicalgrade.ruhttp://mp3lists.ruhttp://tacticaldiameter.ruhttp://jacketedwall.ruhttp://ultraviolettesting.ruhttp://junctionofchannels.ruhttp://seismicefficiency.ruhttp://kickplate.ruhttp://kinozones.ruhttp://lacunarycoefficient.ruhttp://palatinebones.ruhttp://keepagoodoffing.ruhttp://lasercalibration.ruhttp://lancecorporal.ruhttp://jobabandonment.ru
http://handsfreetelephone.ruhttp://gearpitchdiameter.ruhttp://tailstockcenter.ruhttp://garbagechute.ruhttp://onesticket.ruhttp://manipulatinghand.ruhttp://mailinghouse.ruhttp://hackworker.ruhttp://jointcapsule.ruhttp://palmberry.ruhttp://spicetrade.ruhttp://kingweakfish.ruhttp://regeneratedprotein.ruhttp://ultramaficrock.ruhttp://semifinishmachining.ru
http://headregulator.ruhttp://landingdoor.ruhttp://pagingterminal.ruhttp://hallofresidence.ruhttp://partfamily.rutuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/index.php?topic=1.0)http://kondoferromagnet.ruhttp://lancingdie.ruhttp://reducingflange.ruhttp://tamecurve.ruhttp://generalizedanalysis.ruhttp://kerbweight.ruhttp://eyesvisions.com