Why we get mad at gun grabbers.

[2dumb2kwit]

Some people just don't understand how ridiculous the gun grabbers plans are. They are going all out to get rid of what they call assault rifles. Do you have any idea how few people are killed by rifles each year? And I mean all rifles. This number includes "hunting" rifles. Out of 12,664 murders last year, 8,583 of them were committed with a firearm. Of those, only 323 were committed with a rifle. Just to give some frame of reference, more people than that were beaten to death with a blunt object. Heck....more people than that were killed with bare hands. Nearly 1,700 people were killed with sharp objects. (You know....like knives.)

By the way....the number of murders, including firearm murders is trending down.

Don't take my word for this. Check out the F.B.I's numbers.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8

[GreatUsername]

Consider also that stabbing skyrocket in countries where firearms are banned. I heard that some British police officers are taking to wearing mail armor instead of kevlar vests, because knife attacks are now the biggest cop-killer in Britain.

One point you are missing though: there is a good case for handguns being dangerous. 90% of firearm-murders use a handgun. While I don't want to see them banned, it would be nice to see some common sense. And if they ARE banned, well... I'm just glad there's little that a 9mm Beretta can do that a .308 Rem 700 can't ;)

[Delta 5168]

Since I don't understand the gun ban weenie mind,; do they expect the bad guys to just walk in to their local police station and politely hand over their illegally obtained guns? Will we all cry and sing Cum Bye Ya afterwards?

[crashdive123]

Consider also that stabbing skyrocket in countries where firearms are banned. I heard that some British police officers are taking to wearing mail armor instead of kevlar vests, because knife attacks are now the biggest cop-killer in Britain.

One point you are missing though: there is a good case for handguns being dangerous. 90% of firearm-murders use a handgun. While I don't want to see them banned, it would be nice to see some common sense. And if they ARE banned, well... I'm just glad there's little that a 9mm Beretta can do that a .308 Rem 700 can't ;)

I'll bet a very high percentage of those handgun deaths are drug (thug on thug) related. So nice to see the war on drugs working so well.

[BornthatWay]

And that is about how a war on guns is going to work.

[natertot]

Nothing here I disagree with. I say stiffer penalties dished out by judges to criminals and I'm sure crime (including murders) will dive. Up until the late 1800's, a person could be (and very often was) hung for stealing a horse. I bet if we had the death penalty for stealing a vehicle (today's horse), not too many of them would be stolen. Just sayin......

[Wise Old Owl]

I didn't know we could have near political conversations here...( I hang out on some other strict forums) is this Ok?

[crashdive123]

I didn't know we could have near political conversations here...( I hang out on some other strict forums) is this Ok?

Discussing legislation or potential legislation along with the merits or the reason is bad is fine. What is not OK is to get into the left/right debate.

[natertot]

.............What is NOT OK is to get into the left/right debate.

Well.....Since Crash brought it up!

[intothenew]

Warheit posted this down the street aways, and no one commented. I haven't either, until now.


LINKY (http://www.wallsofthecity.net/images/graphicsmatter/americanpopulationfirearmsdeaths.png)


The subject is not kids in pools, drunk drivers, knives, or rocks. The subject is gun control. The US government, under the constitution, certainly has the power to regulate guns. If not, please explain to me how you would justify each person that posted in this thread owning a piece of field artillery.

Moreover, the power of the US Government to regulate firearms is lawful. How much may be argumentative.

Mr. Statistician, stand on the floor of the House and/or Senate and give me your views on the above link.

[Wise Old Owl]

Well must be a slow night...

[Geek]

To come back to the title of the thread, I am not mad at anyone. I think the "gun grabbers" are fools, and it is hard to blame a fool for being a fool. Regarding politics, this is a forum with the term "survival" in the title. Most survivalists consider a means to defend their preparations a necessary component of their preparations.

If there is someone who believes in prepping, and has stocked a year's supply of food, etc. but has absolutely no firearms, he isn't prepared for crime, terrorism, riots, any form of war, or a WROL situation of any type. He won't even be able to deal with looting after a natural disaster.

That being the case it is hard to imagine too serious a disagreement occurring amongst this group. Some troll may show up, but the moderators seem to be pretty good at eliminating those quickly.

[Yves]

Since I don't understand the gun ban weenie mind,; do they expect the bad guys to just walk in to their local police station and politely hand over their illegally obtained guns? Will we all cry and sing Cum Bye Ya afterwards?

Most people that I have met that fit into this that frame of mind tend to be very comfortable (and often bored), have an irrationally high faith in central authority and have never held a firearm themselves.

[2dumb2kwit]

I'll bet a very high percentage of those handgun deaths are drug (thug on thug) related. So nice to see the war on drugs working so well.

Watch the video, that I posted in it's own thread. Uncle Ted uses a number that is mind blowing. I'll have to see if I can find the back up, for his number.

[2dumb2kwit]

Warheit posted this down the street aways, and no one commented. I haven't either, until now.


LINKY (http://www.wallsofthecity.net/images/graphicsmatter/americanpopulationfirearmsdeaths.png)


The subject is not kids in pools, drunk drivers, knives, or rocks. The subject is gun control. The US government, under the constitution, certainly has the power to regulate guns. If not, please explain to me how you would justify each person that posted in this thread owning a piece of field artillery.

Moreover, the power of the US Government to regulate firearms is lawful. How much may be argumentative.

Mr. Statistician, stand on the floor of the House and/or Senate and give me your views on the above link.

It's called the 2nd amendment. Look it up. If you don't understand it, look at some of the writings of the Supreme court, on the matter.


As for the link, I assume you are talking about the drop in murder rates, when some bans were imposed. If you'll look closely, about the same time, many more states became "shall issue" states. One could argue that this fact was the cause of dropping crime rates.

Also, if you extend the chart further, (beyond 2007) you will see that gun permits (CCW) are up, gun ownership is up, and in general gun laws have been relaxing, and get ready for it........murders(in general) are trending down, and gun murders are trending down.

[2dumb2kwit]

Warheit posted this down the street aways, and no one commented. I haven't either, until now.


LINKY (http://www.wallsofthecity.net/images/graphicsmatter/americanpopulationfirearmsdeaths.png)


The subject is not kids in pools, drunk drivers, knives, or rocks. The subject is gun control. The US government, under the constitution, certainly has the power to regulate guns. If not, please explain to me how you would justify each person that posted in this thread owning a piece of field artillery.

Moreover, the power of the US Government to regulate firearms is lawful. How much may be argumentative.

Mr. Statistician, stand on the floor of the House and/or Senate and give me your views on the above link.

Can you give us any supporting evidence of this claim?

[Sportsman296]

Some people just don't understand how ridiculous the gun grabbers plans are. They are going all out to get rid of what they call assault rifles. Do you have any idea how few people are killed by rifles each year? And I mean all rifles. This number includes "hunting" rifles. Out of 12,664 murders last year, 8,583 of them were committed with a firearm. Of those, only 323 were committed with a rifle. Just to give some frame of reference, more people than that were beaten to death with a blunt object. Heck....more people than that were killed with bare hands. Nearly 1,700 people were killed with sharp objects. (You know....like knives.)

By the way....the number of murders, including firearm murders is trending down.

Don't take my word for this. Check out the F.B.I's numbers.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8

Thats so crazy and then they want to take away our guns/ rights why not take our steak knives and baseball bats???

[crashdive123]

Watch the video, that I posted in it's own thread. Uncle Ted uses a number that is mind blowing. I'll have to see if I can find the back up, for his number.

**sniff, sniff**:angermanagement::cursing::crying: Sound went out on computer last night. Haven't started troubleshooting yet.

[crashdive123]

Well.....Since Crash brought it up!

Glad you agree....(you may want to look back at your post....just sayin')

[intothenew]

Can you give us any supporting evidence of this claim?

Besides taxes and interstate commerce?

LINKY (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act#Miller_case)

and

LINKY (http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-firearms.html)

[2dumb2kwit]

Besides taxes and interstate commerce?

LINKY (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act#Miller_case)

and

LINKY (http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-firearms.html)

OK. You've got me. I was referring to what the Gov't can rightly do. They do whatever they please. As far as it being legal/constitutional, your link shows the truth. Even the courts don't agree about it.

I would love to get into how some people in the Gov't and the courts have perverted the constitution, and claim ridiculous things to be constitutional, but I would then be getting into things that are not allowed to be discussed on this forum. Since that is the case, I will just say that we (and the courts) have a difference of opinion, as to what's constitutional..

[Rick]

The thing that bothers me is what we really are talking about is controlling school violence and the only thing the anti-gun group can come up with is ban guns. Under the previous ban we had Columbine,All-Tec Investments, Wedgewood Baptist Church, Edgewater Technology, SantanaHigh School and Lockhead Martin all occurring. 46 dead and many more injured. We know bans don't work and here are a number of high profile events that support that idea. In addition, Oklahoma City. Bath Township, Michigan, University of Oklahoma, University of Wisconsin, Cokeville, Wyoming and Kanawha County, West Virginia. Total count.....217 DEAD with 820 injured......all with bombs.

More school kids have been killed with bombs than all the school gun shootings combined. Yet when you provide numbers like this, easily verifiable numbers and easily verifiable events, it doesn't impress them. How will a gun ban stop a bomber? Duck and weave. How will a gun ban stop a knife assailant. Duck and weave. I even had one lady tell me that gun owners should pay for the security that NRA wants to put in schools. I said, "Honey, if you don't think you kid is worth a couple of extra bucks to protect neither do I". I'm off her Christmas list but......

They don't seem to care about kids' safety. It's one single minded focus toward banning guns. I ask them for out of box ideas on how to protect kids from a guy with a machette and it's all duck and weave.

Just so you know I'm not blowing smoke, here are MY ideas on how to increase child safety and you'll note banning isn't listed. Yes, I actually came up with this list all by my lonesome.

1. Hardened facilities that keep assailants outside. Used hardened glass or no glass at entrances. Install monitoring equipment so staff can see who is at the door and buzzers to allow them in. This would also pay benefits in case of severe weather (tornadoes, hurricanes) and earthquakes.

2. Train faculty and staff how not to be victims and what to do if their building is attacked.

3. You wouldn't put a sign in your yard saying "No Guns Inside" so take down that stupid "Gun Free Zone" sign that tells an assailant no one inside can stop them.

4. Hire armed, private security or additional LEO that will be staffed at the school district level not the school building level. That way an assailant can not know how many security/LEO are inside at any given time. Since they are school district employees they can move from school building to school building. Just the mere presence of uniformed, armed security has been shown to reduce crime plus you have trained security that will be looking for anything out of place like people, vehicles or packages.

[Chris]

Warheit posted this down the street aways, and no one commented. I haven't either, until now.


LINKY (http://www.wallsofthecity.net/images/graphicsmatter/americanpopulationfirearmsdeaths.png)


The subject is not kids in pools, drunk drivers, knives, or rocks. The subject is gun control. The US government, under the constitution, certainly has the power to regulate guns. If not, please explain to me how you would justify each person that posted in this thread owning a piece of field artillery.

Moreover, the power of the US Government to regulate firearms is lawful. How much may be argumentative.

Mr. Statistician, stand on the floor of the House and/or Senate and give me your views on the above link.

I've viewed that link, I see nothing in it that would support gun control. Statistically in fact it disproves that an assault weapons ban would reduce gun violence.

Scientifically, if you clapped, and lightning struck outside, would you think you could call lightning? You do another trial, you clap again, lightning doesn't come this time. You've disproved your theory. A theory can never be fully proven, it can be accepted, or disproven, but it only takes 1 accurate false result to disprove it.

In this case you have a chart showing a vague correlation between a decline in gun deaths and the introduction of a bill that bans certain types of rifles. However, when the ban expires, deaths do not shoot back up to preban levels, proportionately they do not increase at all, but only follow the population trendline. With that chart you can accurately infer that the expiration of the ban had absolutely no affect on deaths. You also have a problem with gun deaths already dropping prior to the ban taking place, in a trajectory that more or less mirrors the trajectory during the first part of the ban. So it would be like saying you drop a ball down a hill, and gravity caused the first 10 feet of falling, but then a bird flew by and you attribute the rest of the fall to the bird. There is no way you can make that claim based on the evidence.

Statistically, we also know, thanks to that FBI link, that the guns banned during the ban aren't the type of guns used in the vast majority of homicides.

Put it all together and that link is a great link for showing how the assault weapons ban did nothing.

What likely actually caused the drop in murders? Economic growth, you've got it peaking at the end of a recession and the start of the IT revolution (ironically, when we all started playing first person shooter style video games). Inner city gangs were a big problem in the period of the spike in murders, police officers got better at anti-gang policing with more community programs, additionally many cities did like NYC and cleaned up their downtown areas which reduced the habitat for criminal behavior.

[Sarge47]

Can we get a ban banning politicians? Those people bore me to death! :yawnb:

[2dumb2kwit]

The thing that bothers me is what we really are talking about is controlling school violence and the only thing the anti-gun group can come up with is ban guns. Under the previous ban we had Columbine,All-Tec Investments, Wedgewood Baptist Church, Edgewater Technology, SantanaHigh School and Lockhead Martin all occurring. 46 dead and many more injured. We know bans don't work and here are a number of high profile events that support that idea. In addition, Oklahoma City. Bath Township, Michigan, University of Oklahoma, University of Wisconsin, Cokeville, Wyoming and Kanawha County, West Virginia. Total count.....217 DEAD with 820 injured......all with bombs.

You are working under a false premise. The anti-gun people are not trying to save the lives of children, or anyone else. They want to get rid of guns, and they will stoop to any measure to do it. Including playing on the emotions of people who have just suffered a tragic loss.

[GreatUsername]

You are working under a false premise. The anti-gun people are not trying to save the lives of children, or anyone else. They want to get rid of guns, and they will stoop to any measure to do it. Including playing on the emotions of people who have just suffered a tragic loss.

What then do you suppose is their motivation for our guns to be taken away?

[intothenew]

OK. You've got me. I was referring to what the Gov't can rightly do. They do whatever they please. As far as it being legal/constitutional, your link shows the truth. Even the courts don't agree about it.

I would love to get into how some people in the Gov't and the courts have perverted the constitution, and claim ridiculous things to be constitutional, but I would then be getting into things that are not allowed to be discussed on this forum. Since that is the case, I will just say that we (and the courts) have a difference of opinion, as to what's constitutional..

Absolutes do not exist, leastways in this litigious society.

[intothenew]

The thing that bothers me is what we really are talking about is controlling school violence and the only thing the anti-gun group can come up with is ban guns. Under the previous ban we had Columbine,All-Tec Investments, Wedgewood Baptist Church, Edgewater Technology, SantanaHigh School and Lockhead Martin all occurring. 46 dead and many more injured. We know bans don't work and here are a number of high profile events that support that idea. In addition, Oklahoma City. Bath Township, Michigan, University of Oklahoma, University of Wisconsin, Cokeville, Wyoming and Kanawha County, West Virginia. Total count.....217 DEAD with 820 injured......all with bombs.

More school kids have been killed with bombs than all the school gun shootings combined. Yet when you provide numbers like this, easily verifiable numbers and easily verifiable events, it doesn't impress them. How will a gun ban stop a bomber? Duck and weave. How will a gun ban stop a knife assailant. Duck and weave. I even had one lady tell me that gun owners should pay for the security that NRA wants to put in schools. I said, "Honey, if you don't think you kid is worth a couple of extra bucks to protect neither do I". I'm off her Christmas list but......

They don't seem to care about kids' safety. It's one single minded focus toward banning guns. I ask them for out of box ideas on how to protect kids from a guy with a machette and it's all duck and weave.

Just so you know I'm not blowing smoke, here are MY ideas on how to increase child safety and you'll note banning isn't listed. Yes, I actually came up with this list all by my lonesome.

1. Hardened facilities that keep assailants outside. Used hardened glass or no glass at entrances. Install monitoring equipment so staff can see who is at the door and buzzers to allow them in. This would also pay benefits in case of severe weather (tornadoes, hurricanes) and earthquakes.

2. Train faculty and staff how not to be victims and what to do if their building is attacked.

3. You wouldn't put a sign in your yard saying "No Guns Inside" so take down that stupid "Gun Free Zone" sign that tells an assailant no one inside can stop them.

4. Hire armed, private security or additional LEO that will be staffed at the school district level not the school building level. That way an assailant can not know how many security/LEO are inside at any given time. Since they are school district employees they can move from school building to school building. Just the mere presence of uniformed, armed security has been shown to reduce crime plus you have trained security that will be looking for anything out of place like people, vehicles or packages.

I cased the place, two weeks ago. JMA had a recital.

Only the doors/entrance needs hardened. I'll pay.

Off subject, maybe. That could/should keep the predator of various intentions out/away.

[intothenew]

I've viewed that link, I see nothing in it that would support gun control. Statistically in fact it disproves that an assault weapons ban would reduce gun violence.

Scientifically, if you clapped, and lightning struck outside, would you think you could call lightning? You do another trial, you clap again, lightning doesn't come this time. You've disproved your theory. A theory can never be fully proven, it can be accepted, or disproven, but it only takes 1 accurate false result to disprove it.

In this case you have a chart showing a vague correlation between a decline in gun deaths and the introduction of a bill that bans certain types of rifles. However, when the ban expires, deaths do not shoot back up to preban levels, proportionately they do not increase at all, but only follow the population trendline. With that chart you can accurately infer that the expiration of the ban had absolutely no affect on deaths. You also have a problem with gun deaths already dropping prior to the ban taking place, in a trajectory that more or less mirrors the trajectory during the first part of the ban. So it would be like saying you drop a ball down a hill, and gravity caused the first 10 feet of falling, but then a bird flew by and you attribute the rest of the fall to the bird. There is no way you can make that claim based on the evidence.

Statistically, we also know, thanks to that FBI link, that the guns banned during the ban aren't the type of guns used in the vast majority of homicides.

Put it all together and that link is a great link for showing how the assault weapons ban did nothing.

What likely actually caused the drop in murders? Economic growth, you've got it peaking at the end of a recession and the start of the IT revolution (ironically, when we all started playing first person shooter style video games). Inner city gangs were a big problem in the period of the spike in murders, police officers got better at anti-gang policing with more community programs, additionally many cities did like NYC and cleaned up their downtown areas which reduced the habitat for criminal behavior.

There seems to be a discount/convenient overlook/denial that a background check is of importance. In particular, a waiting period.

Weed the less than apt out?

[crashdive123]

What then do you suppose is their motivation for our guns to be taken away?

Many would say that it is easier to control an unarmed populace.

As has been stated - the current proposals to ban guns have absolutely nothing to do with protecting children. The children are just a means to an end.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yeA_kHHLow

[Winter]

The US government, under the constitution, certainly has the power to regulate guns. If not, please explain to me how you would justify each person that posted in this thread owning a piece of field artillery.



The Government has the power, they do not have the authority. They have circumvented the need for real authority due to interstate commerce regs.

If every law abiding person in this thread had a piece of field artillery, they would have a safer neighborhood. Many people in the US own artillery pieces, tanks, etc but there's never been any misuse of them. I have no problem with lawful people owning any weapon system short of nuclear/biological/chemical weapons.

[intothenew]

...................nuclear/biological/chemical..................

Left alone, and to my own devices, I can deliver all by gun. Should that be legal?

[Winter]

Left alone, and to my own devices, I can deliver all by gun. Should that be legal?

Not sure what you mean. You have nuclear warhead bullets?

The 2nd Amendment says "arms". Arms are for warfare, not hunting.

[intothenew]

Not sure what you mean. You have nuclear warhead bullets?...............

No, but:


Left alone, and to my own devices, I can deliver all by gun.

Should that be legal?

[Winter]

Should what be legal? Your research and development of NBC bullets?

[intothenew]

Citizen possession of NBC bullets?

[2dumb2kwit]

What then do you suppose is their motivation for our guns to be taken away?

I don't think there is one answer, to that question. I think different people have different reasons. At the very top, there is the real possibility that some want the populace to be un-armed, so that they can be more easily controlled. Then you have those who think that limiting guns in general will limit the number of guns that criminals have, thus limiting crime. (This belief has been shown many times, to be false.) Then you have the ones who are just scared to death of guns. They wrongly think that they are just too dangerous for normal people to have access to. Most of the "run of the mill" people, who are anti-gun, are non-gun owners that have had their heads filled with false information, leading them to believe that less guns equal a safer society.

[2dumb2kwit]

Citizen possession of NBC bullets?

Personally.....I'm un-decided....but as for the constitution and it's intention...yes.

The intention was for us to be able to protect ourselves from anyone/anything up to and including a tyrannical Gov't. That means that we would need to be armed at least as well as our Gov't.

[BENESSE]

Personally.....I'm un-decided....but as for the constitution and it's intention...yes.

The intention was for us to be able to protect ourselves from anyone/anything up to and including a tyrannical Gov't. That means that we would need to be armed at least as well as our Gov't.

Great.
I've got some SBDs here..do you think they count?

[crashdive123]

Great.
I've got some SBDs here..do you think they count?

Those are considered a close proximity chemical weapon. While not normally lethal, the operator often takes the brunt of the punishment. For some odd reason a side effect is that the operator often breaks out in laughter.

[Geek]

There seems to be a discount/convenient overlook/denial that a background check is of importance. In particular, a waiting period.

Weed the less than apt out?

The background check is done over the phone within minutes by an FFL and we are all used to it. However, individuals cannot easily access the system, so forcing background checks on sales between individuals effectively forces all private sales to now go through an FFL. That is a major nuisance for something that has not worked to date. In the high profile shootings that have taken place lately, the guns seem to have been obtained through FFL channels, so it isn't clear adding checks to private sales would make a difference.

There is no evidence that the waiting period does anything whatsoever.

[BENESSE]

There is no evidence that the waiting period does anything whatsoever.

The news aren't made when it works, only when it doesn't. Which is no reason to get rid of it.
Besides, there are waiting periods for much less consequential stuff, can't fathom what the big deal is. It's not like you're being deployed to a war area and you need that gun or else you'd have to rely on a knife. :whistling:

[2dumb2kwit]

The news aren't made when it works, only when it doesn't. Which is no reason to get rid of it.
Besides, there are waiting periods for much less consequential stuff, can't fathom what the big deal is. It's not like you're being deployed to a war area and you need that gun or else you'd have to rely on a knife. :whistling:

Why should anyone be made to suffer any more inconvenience, when there is no gain to be had from it? Most gun owners would go through a ton of inconvenience, if it meant saving lives. The problem is that the ones put on us time after time, don't help anyone. After enough of this, the people who want us to suffer more inconvenience are just the boy who cried wolf. Then the boy who cried wolf, cries that gun owners won't talk to him. He cries that we won't compromise with him, when he call for more BS that has already been shown not to work.

[BENESSE]

Like I said...you don't hear about the cases (mental, criminal, and otherwise unsuitable) who were successfully turned away, only the ones that slipped through. You're never gonna have 100% success in enforcement of anything which is no reason to give up doing it entirely.
And yeah, the rest of us who play by the rules will have to bear the brunt of that as we already do from airport security, to loan approval, to paying more for stuff due to shoplifting, loan default, bad lifestyle habits of others, having too many kids you can't support, on, and on and on...
Don't get me started...
It's entirely your right to get indignant about the 2nd Amendment and the imposition of background checks, but for me, that's one of multitude of equally (if not more) important issues that affect me every single day in everything I do.

[Geek]

Personally, I think the only thing that needs to be done is to get more of the mentally unstable into the NICS database.

[intothenew]

Personally, I think the only thing that needs to be done is to get more of the mentally unstable into the NICS database.

And deny an American citizen a gun?

[Winter]

Citizen possession of NBC bullets?

The real question is- if you wanted to make them, would a law stop you?

[intothenew]

.............would a law stop you?


We the people.................All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States.......................assembled in Consequence................elected by the people thereof.

[Rick]

We have background checks at the dealers and that's it. It's not required for across the table sales. No waiting period either. On the surface a waiting period allows someone that's pizzed to cool off. But you have to be a little sideways to begin with to get ticked, march off the a gun dealer to buy a gun and ammo to go back home and kill someone. Who has that kind of energy?

If they demand background checks on private sales I say we all call the FBI for the background check. To heck with the dealer. They'll have to hire about 30,000 more agents just to handle all the calls.

[Geek]

And deny an American citizen a gun?

Ever dealt with a paranoid schizophrenic?

[BENESSE]

If they demand background checks on private sales I say we all call the FBI for the background check. To heck with the dealer. They'll have to hire about 30,000 more agents just to handle all the calls.

NOW, you're thinking! I can just see all y'all (with 2D leading the way) fighting your way to get to the phone. :sneaky2:
That'll teach them.

[2dumb2kwit]

NOW, you're thinking! I can just see all y'all (with 2D leading the way) fighting your way to get to the phone. :sneaky2:
That'll teach them.

Rick is confused. That is the Gov't, that he's talking about. Instead of hiring 30,000 more people, they just won't be able to keep up with demand and call it a good thing when they keep law abiding citizens from buying a new gun.

And Ms. "B"........I fight for your rights. I don't need to buy any guns or ammo.:kiss:

[Chris]

Personally, I think the only thing that needs to be done is to get more of the mentally unstable into the NICS database.

I asked my wife, who does deal with schizophrenics and other mentally ill all day long as she is a psychiatrist, what she thought about the idea of putting her patients into some government database. She laughed.

You want these people to get help, if you make it the law that anyone who seeks mental healthcare goes onto a government list does that make it more likely or less likely that the people who need help will get it? Even if you limited it to only the really crazy people, you're still disincentivizing the people who need it the most from getting it.

It isn't a good solution. What you need is more access to care, more outreach, better integration, you need to make sure people don't slip through the cracks and get the help they need. And of course - harden soft targets in every way possible because you'll never stop or prevent every crazy person.

[intothenew]

Ever dealt with a paranoid schizophrenic?


Would you deny a paranoid schizophrenic a gun?

[2dumb2kwit]

There are plenty of people who I would not give a gun.
There are even more people that I think should not be allowed to reproduce. Would you be OK with us stopping them?

[BENESSE]

And Ms. "B"........I fight for your rights. I don't need to buy any guns or ammo.:kiss:

That's just what I was thinking.
I sure do appreciate it!

[BENESSE]

There are plenty of people who I would not give a gun.
There are even more people that I think should not be allowed to reproduce. Would you be OK with us stopping them?

Are you KIDDing?! We need that more than anything.

[intothenew]

There are plenty of people who I would not give a gun.............

The question was not whether you would give, loan, or buy a paranoid schizophrenic a gun.

The question is:


Would you deny a paranoid schizophrenic a gun?



................There are even more people that I think should not be allowed to reproduce. Would you be OK with us stopping them?

At first thought, I was disappointed that didn't get it's own thread. On second thought, I can see where some would consider the rate of fire too low.

[Winter]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Form_4473

Form 4473. It asks if you have ever been treated for a mental illness.

The laws are already there folks.

I would deny a paranoid schizophrenic a gun because that is the current law. (i love spellcheck right now)

[Geek]

I am not sure about this, but to get your name in the NICS database for mental illness you need to be either committed as an inpatient or declared by a court to be mentally ill. The problem seems to be there are a lot of people with mental problems that have not been an inpatient, and haven't been declared by a court to be mentally ill. I wouldn't trust a psychotic to fill out the form honestly.

[intothenew]

............The laws are already there folks............



For every gun transaction?

[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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Crys (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/137339)Gree (http://hangonpart.ru/t/17036)Robe (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/245452)Used (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/167818)Соде (http://hardasiron.ru/t/227555)голу (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/306393)авто (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/267543)�ерт (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/140476)Danc (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/169518)Mary (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/177708)Silv (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/155442)Mari (http://headregulator.ru/t/155715)молн (http://heartofgold.ru/t/157088)Wine (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/170319)Pelh (http://heatinggas.ru/t/293116)
Andr (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/302845)Camb (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/265086)авто (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/302503)blac (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/601513)Sela (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/602369)Sela (http://jobstress.ru/t/602356)Peri (http://jogformation.ru/t/551972)Вале (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/548464)Part (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/539917)Clea (http://journallubricator.ru/t/140743)Шапк (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/316767)�упе (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/292955)XVII (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/302482)Lesl (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/301543)Иллю (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/279361)
Gust (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/292209)Jean (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/296538)Ð*око (http://kentishglory.ru/t/296902)Cind (http://kerbweight.ru/t/186184)Ð�ырк (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/305545)чтен (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/195629)kbps (http://keyserum.ru/t/184833)чиÑ�Ñ‚ (http://kickplate.ru/t/156918)01-2 (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/603534)кома (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/298951)Zone (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/607904)хокк (http://kinozones.ru/film/9784)чиÑ�Ñ‚ (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/603583)инте (http://kneejoint.ru/t/368458)авто (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/444041)
Terr (http://knockonatom.ru/t/264452)КЛ-3 (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/603496)7003 (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/157071)�ико (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/677330)чи�т (http://laborracket.ru/t/157180)9,59 (http://labourearnings.ru/t/157809)Cath (http://labourleasing.ru/t/254621)Robe (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/335666)Mati (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/297295)�рхи (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/363362)Лю�т (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/425535)изда (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/195638)Chil (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/70113)(184 (http://laggingload.ru/t/109764)XIII (http://laissezaller.ru/t/228990)
Mast (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/68358)Кита (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/166398)Лавр (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/238726)Hein (http://lamphouse.ru/t/292794)Mona (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/173905)Scot (http://lancingdie.ru/t/68857)Love (http://landingdoor.ru/t/170837)Wind (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/184214)Kath (http://landreform.ru/t/293005)Курд (http://landuseratio.ru/t/193761)Bona (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/294977)клей (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1162916)укра (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/1536817)KOSS (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/1184)пла� (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/591333)

[yellowcab]

Agne (http://laterevent.ru/shop/1179229)Hotp (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/452289)Shan (http://layabout.ru/shop/600193)прод (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/1031396)B520 (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/269889)Gold (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/467261)Book (http://leaveword.ru/shop/909077)Jewe (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/395705)SQui (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/610081)Chic (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/574938)обще (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/269973)Жура (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/786323)Ефре (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/788236)ARAG (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/612848)хоро (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/1175113)
хоро (http://manualchoke.ru/shop/1174964)указ (http://medinfobooks.ru/book/3068)imag (http://mp3lists.ru/item/9784)Hane (http://nameresolution.ru/shop/1151338)цвет (http://naphtheneseries.ru/shop/575128)упак (http://narrowmouthed.ru/shop/462238)тема (http://nationalcensus.ru/shop/1056246)акад (http://naturalfunctor.ru/shop/576869)Moti (http://navelseed.ru/shop/103452)пазл (http://neatplaster.ru/shop/455978)Wind (http://necroticcaries.ru/shop/185272)wwwn (http://negativefibration.ru/shop/640038)Sale (http://neighbouringrights.ru/shop/649035)Wolf (http://objectmodule.ru/shop/470962)Bosc (http://observationballoon.ru)
брюк (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/457722)Gold (http://oceanmining.ru/shop/473269)Trio (http://octupolephonon.ru/shop/571475)Span (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/149849)ЛитÐ* (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/203974)Мель (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/203762)ЛитÐ* (http://onesticket.ru/shop/581941)Half (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/584122)Leth (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/687824)prog (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/685328)пиÑ�а (http://palmberry.ru/shop/690061)Zoom (http://papercoating.ru/shop/585168)Креч (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/690694)Сарт (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1172452)Paul (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1172428)
Перв (http://partfamily.ru/shop/1176712)�тат (http://partialmajorant.ru/shop/1174258)Robe (http://quadrupleworm.ru/shop/1543739)Евпа (http://qualitybooster.ru/shop/1543308)Пенз (http://quasimoney.ru/shop/597169)Walt (http://quenchedspark.ru/shop/845858)Wind (http://quodrecuperet.ru/shop/1075317)Comm (http://rabbetledge.ru/shop/1080810)Spar (http://radialchaser.ru/shop/360767)Velv (http://radiationestimator.ru/shop/511434)Cras (http://railwaybridge.ru/shop/636337)муль (http://randomcoloration.ru/shop/904126)Tsui (http://rapidgrowth.ru/shop/1071339)Wind (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru/shop/1375015)Inte (http://reachthroughregion.ru/shop/1285940)
Pulc (http://readingmagnifier.ru/shop/515829)Edou (http://rearchain.ru/shop/878572)Gali (http://recessioncone.ru/shop/878497)Форм (http://recordedassignment.ru/shop/1033739)Show (http://rectifiersubstation.ru/shop/1057192)выру (http://redemptionvalue.ru/shop/1064512)Прео (http://reducingflange.ru/shop/1687245)Топо (http://referenceantigen.ru/shop/1694667)Карч (http://regeneratedprotein.ru/shop/1770368)Shir (http://reinvestmentplan.ru/shop/1775895)Enid (http://safedrilling.ru/shop/1821368)Фион (http://sagprofile.ru/shop/1062133)Mode (http://salestypelease.ru/shop/1854699)Суро (http://samplinginterval.ru/shop/1880253)Лукь (http://satellitehydrology.ru/shop/1915333)
деÑ�Ñ‚ (http://scarcecommodity.ru/shop/1495097)Воро (http://scrapermat.ru/shop/1941010)Сино (http://screwingunit.ru/shop/1550183)ЕлиÑ� (http://seawaterpump.ru/shop/1617871)Торо (http://secondaryblock.ru/shop/1454829)Влод (http://secularclergy.ru/shop/1493872)авто (http://seismicefficiency.ru/shop/365789)Чупа (http://selectivediffuser.ru/shop/403082)Леви (http://semiasphalticflux.ru/shop/406330)Proj (http://semifinishmachining.ru/shop/1692784)KOSS (http://spicetrade.ru/spice_zakaz/1184)KOSS (http://spysale.ru/spy_zakaz/1184)KOSS (http://stungun.ru/stun_zakaz/1184)Ð*айн (http://tacticaldiameter.ru/shop/485335)выру (http://tailstockcenter.ru/shop/496363)
День (http://tamecurve.ru/shop/500597)возр (http://tapecorrection.ru/shop/505469)Wilh (http://tappingchuck.ru/shop/489887)Погл (http://taskreasoning.ru/shop/501857)Look (http://technicalgrade.ru/shop/1849505)Саак (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru/shop/1900124)прог (http://telescopicdamper.ru/shop/1918744)Ундз (http://temperateclimate.ru/shop/793079)Лыто (http://temperedmeasure.ru/shop/890596)Коно (http://tenementbuilding.ru/shop/983082)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)Inte (http://ultramaficrock.ru/shop/983479)Крем (http://ultraviolettesting.ru/shop/485689)

[yellowcab]

geartreating.ru (http://geartreating.ru)hadronicannihilation.ru (http://hadronicannihilation.ru)getintoaflap.ru (http://getintoaflap.ru)gashbucket.ru (http://gashbucket.ru)scarcecommodity.ru (http://scarcecommodity.ru)kerrrotation.ru (http://kerrrotation.ru)hailsquall.ru (http://hailsquall.ru)heavydutymetalcutting.ru (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru)hazardousatmosphere.ru (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru)mammasdarling.ru (http://mammasdarling.ru)heatageingresistance.ru (http://heatageingresistance.ru)laborracket.ru (http://laborracket.ru)kaposidisease.ru (http://kaposidisease.ru)landuseratio.ru (http://landuseratio.ru)offlinesystem.ru (http://offlinesystem.ru)
lacingcourse.ru (http://lacingcourse.ru)semiasphalticflux.ru (http://semiasphalticflux.ru)packedspheres.ru (http://packedspheres.ru)neatplaster.ru (http://neatplaster.ru)gaussianfilter.ru (http://gaussianfilter.ru)secularclergy.ru (http://secularclergy.ru)hardasiron.ru (http://hardasiron.ru)kleinbottle.ru (http://kleinbottle.ru)cottagenet.ru (http://cottagenet.ru)laminatedmaterial.ru (http://laminatedmaterial.ru)selectivediffuser.ru (http://selectivediffuser.ru)papercoating.ru (http://papercoating.ru)objectmodule.ru (http://objectmodule.ru)jobstress.ru (http://jobstress.ru)getthebounce.ru (http://getthebounce.ru)
gardeningleave.ru (http://gardeningleave.ru)olibanumresinoid.ru (http://olibanumresinoid.ru)temperedmeasure.ru (http://temperedmeasure.ru)readingmagnifier.ru (http://readingmagnifier.ru)quasimoney.ru (http://quasimoney.ru)reachthroughregion.ru (http://reachthroughregion.ru)haphazardwinding.ru (http://haphazardwinding.ru)hangonpart.ru (http://hangonpart.ru)eyesvision.ru (http://eyesvision.ru)naturalfunctor.ru (http://naturalfunctor.ru)landmarksensor.ru (http://landmarksensor.ru)knifesethouse.ru (http://knifesethouse.ru)heartofgold.ru (http://heartofgold.ru)satellitehydrology.ru (http://satellitehydrology.ru)gasreturn.ru (http://gasreturn.ru)
radialchaser.ru (http://radialchaser.ru)quadrupleworm.ru (http://quadrupleworm.ru)lactogenicfactor.ru (http://lactogenicfactor.ru)haltstate.ru (http://haltstate.ru)rabbetledge.ru (http://rabbetledge.ru)latrinesergeant.ru (http://latrinesergeant.ru)juicecatcher.ru (http://juicecatcher.ru)lacrimalpoint.ru (http://lacrimalpoint.ru)jogformation.ru (http://jogformation.ru)magneticequator.ru (http://magneticequator.ru)haemagglutinin.ru (http://haemagglutinin.ru)sagprofile.ru (http://sagprofile.ru)hatchholddown.ru (http://hatchholddown.ru)samplinginterval.ru (http://samplinginterval.ru)galvanometric.ru (http://galvanometric.ru)
seawaterpump.ru (http://seawaterpump.ru)laserpulse.ru (http://laserpulse.ru)spysale.ru (http://spysale.ru)rattlesnakemaster.ru (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru)labourleasing.ru (http://labourleasing.ru)safedrilling.ru (http://safedrilling.ru)screwingunit.ru (http://screwingunit.ru)gaffertape.ru (http://gaffertape.ru)oceanmining.ru (http://oceanmining.ru)nationalcensus.ru (http://nationalcensus.ru)keyserum.ru (http://keyserum.ru)laterevent.ru (http://laterevent.ru)journallubricator.ru (http://journallubricator.ru)gageboard.ru (http://gageboard.ru)haveafinetime.ru (http://haveafinetime.ru)
tapecorrection.ru (http://tapecorrection.ru)railwaybridge.ru (http://railwaybridge.ru)secondaryblock.ru (http://secondaryblock.ru)layabout.ru (http://layabout.ru)landreform.ru (http://landreform.ru)taskreasoning.ru (http://taskreasoning.ru)nameresolution.ru (http://nameresolution.ru)radiationestimator.ru (http://radiationestimator.ru)knowledgestate.ru (http://knowledgestate.ru)justiciablehomicide.ru (http://justiciablehomicide.ru)halforderfringe.ru (http://halforderfringe.ru)tappingchuck.ru (http://tappingchuck.ru)gangforeman.ru (http://gangforeman.ru)manualchoke.ru (http://manualchoke.ru)knockonatom.ru (http://knockonatom.ru)
gagrule.ru (http://gagrule.ru)ladletreatediron.ru (http://ladletreatediron.ru)gatedsweep.ru (http://gatedsweep.ru)geophysicalprobe.ru (http://geophysicalprobe.ru)languagelaboratory.ru (http://languagelaboratory.ru)keymanassurance.ru (http://keymanassurance.ru)qualitybooster.ru (http://qualitybooster.ru)necroticcaries.ru (http://necroticcaries.ru)rearchain.ru (http://rearchain.ru)largeheart.ru (http://largeheart.ru)handcoding.ru (http://handcoding.ru)hardenedconcrete.ru (http://hardenedconcrete.ru)gaugemodel.ru (http://gaugemodel.ru)rapidgrowth.ru (http://rapidgrowth.ru)lammasshoot.ru (http://lammasshoot.ru)
kentishglory.ru (http://kentishglory.ru)gallduct.ru (http://gallduct.ru)medinfobooks.ru (http://medinfobooks.ru)harmonicinteraction.ru (http://harmonicinteraction.ru)majorconcern.ru (http://majorconcern.ru)handradar.ru (http://handradar.ru)hardalloyteeth.ru (http://hardalloyteeth.ru)jibtypecrane.ru (http://jibtypecrane.ru)laggingload.ru (http://laggingload.ru)offsetholder.ru (http://offsetholder.ru)kneejoint.ru (http://kneejoint.ru)scrapermat.ru (http://scrapermat.ru)habituate.ru (http://habituate.ru)jointsealingmaterial.ru (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru)octupolephonon.ru (http://octupolephonon.ru)

[yellowcab]

negativefibration.ru (http://negativefibration.ru)keepsmthinhand.ru (http://keepsmthinhand.ru)obstructivepatent.ru (http://obstructivepatent.ru)factoringfee.ru (http://factoringfee.ru)learningcurve.ru (http://learningcurve.ru)salestypelease.ru (http://salestypelease.ru)observationballoon.ru (http://observationballoon.ru)laissezaller.ru (http://laissezaller.ru)referenceantigen.ru (http://referenceantigen.ru)telescopicdamper.ru (http://telescopicdamper.ru)labeledgraph.ru (http://labeledgraph.ru)geriatricnurse.ru (http://geriatricnurse.ru)killthefattedcalf.ru (http://killthefattedcalf.ru)rectifiersubstation.ru (http://rectifiersubstation.ru)leadingfirm.ru (http://leadingfirm.ru)
filmzones.ru (http://filmzones.ru)naphtheneseries.ru (http://naphtheneseries.ru)gangwayplatform.ru (http://gangwayplatform.ru)temperateclimate.ru (http://temperateclimate.ru)gascautery.ru (http://gascautery.ru)randomcoloration.ru (http://randomcoloration.ru)leadcoating.ru (http://leadcoating.ru)managerialstaff.ru (http://managerialstaff.ru)lambdatransition.ru (http://lambdatransition.ru)halfsiblings.ru (http://halfsiblings.ru)navelseed.ru (http://navelseed.ru)narrowmouthed.ru (http://narrowmouthed.ru)audiobookkeeper.ru (http://audiobookkeeper.ru)machinesensible.ru (http://machinesensible.ru)neighbouringrights.ru (http://neighbouringrights.ru)
tenementbuilding.ru (http://tenementbuilding.ru)quodrecuperet.ru (http://quodrecuperet.ru)recordedassignment.ru (http://recordedassignment.ru)leaveword.ru (http://leaveword.ru)partialmajorant.ru (http://partialmajorant.ru)reinvestmentplan.ru (http://reinvestmentplan.ru)recessioncone.ru (http://recessioncone.ru)parasolmonoplane.ru (http://parasolmonoplane.ru)laburnumtree.ru (http://laburnumtree.ru)telangiectaticlipoma.ru (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)redemptionvalue.ru (http://redemptionvalue.ru)paraconvexgroup.ru (http://paraconvexgroup.ru)habeascorpus.ru (http://habeascorpus.ru)heatinggas.ru (http://heatinggas.ru)magnetotelluricfield.ru (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru)
generalprovisions.ru (http://generalprovisions.ru)parkingbrake.ru (http://parkingbrake.ru)juxtapositiontwin.ru (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru)hartlaubgoose.ru (http://hartlaubgoose.ru)gadwall.ru (http://gadwall.ru)labourearnings.ru (http://labourearnings.ru)handportedhead.ru (http://handportedhead.ru)hackedbolt.ru (http://hackedbolt.ru)lamphouse.ru (http://lamphouse.ru)stungun.ru (http://stungun.ru)quenchedspark.ru (http://quenchedspark.ru)japanesecedar.ru (http://japanesecedar.ru)hairysphere.ru (http://hairysphere.ru)laserlens.ru (http://laserlens.ru)kilowattsecond.ru (http://kilowattsecond.ru)
technicalgrade.ru (http://technicalgrade.ru)mp3lists.ru (http://mp3lists.ru)tacticaldiameter.ru (http://tacticaldiameter.ru)jacketedwall.ru (http://jacketedwall.ru)ultraviolettesting.ru (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)junctionofchannels.ru (http://junctionofchannels.ru)seismicefficiency.ru (http://seismicefficiency.ru)kickplate.ru (http://kickplate.ru)kinozones.ru (http://kinozones.ru)lacunarycoefficient.ru (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru)palatinebones.ru (http://palatinebones.ru)keepagoodoffing.ru (http://keepagoodoffing.ru)lasercalibration.ru (http://lasercalibration.ru)lancecorporal.ru (http://lancecorporal.ru)jobabandonment.ru (http://jobabandonment.ru)
handsfreetelephone.ru (http://handsfreetelephone.ru)gearpitchdiameter.ru (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru)tailstockcenter.ru (http://tailstockcenter.ru)garbagechute.ru (http://garbagechute.ru)onesticket.ru (http://onesticket.ru)manipulatinghand.ru (http://manipulatinghand.ru)mailinghouse.ru (http://mailinghouse.ru)hackworker.ru (http://hackworker.ru)jointcapsule.ru (http://jointcapsule.ru)palmberry.ru (http://palmberry.ru)spicetrade.ru (http://spicetrade.ru)kingweakfish.ru (http://kingweakfish.ru)regeneratedprotein.ru (http://regeneratedprotein.ru)ultramaficrock.ru (http://ultramaficrock.ru)semifinishmachining.ru (http://semifinishmachining.ru)
headregulator.ru (http://headregulator.ru)landingdoor.ru (http://landingdoor.ru)pagingterminal.ru (http://pagingterminal.ru)hallofresidence.ru (http://hallofresidence.ru)partfamily.ru (http://partfamily.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/index.php?topic=1.0)kondoferromagnet.ru (http://kondoferromagnet.ru)lancingdie.ru (http://lancingdie.ru)reducingflange.ru (http://reducingflange.ru)tamecurve.ru (http://tamecurve.ru)generalizedanalysis.ru (http://generalizedanalysis.ru)kerbweight.ru (http://kerbweight.ru)eyesvisions.com (http://eyesvisions.com)