Reasons Anti-Gun Folks Want the Ban

[Rick]

I have had quite a number of conversations over the last few days with anti-gun folks. Here are some reasons presented to me about why they were in favor of the ban OR what's wrong with our weapons laws today. Not presented in any special order.

1. High capacity CLIPS aren't necessary. (I've heard this a lot)
2. Semi-Auto hunting rifles have no place in hunting so there is no need for them. (read that again, slowly...semi-auto hunting rifles have no place in hunting...) I actually got tripped up on this one. I had to ask them to repeat it.

3. The 5.56 round is one of the most dangerous.
4. It takes a lot of time to reload a 10 round clip (I guess it takes no time to reload a 30, I don't know)
5. Flash suppressors make all guns dangerous.
6. No one should be able to purchase a gun at a gun store without a background check.
7. The Bushmaster can fire 5 rounds a second.
8. The 2nd Amendment was written 100 years ago. A lot has changed.
9. The NRA allowed drug cartels to buy guns that were used to kill border patrol agents.
10. You shouldn't be able to carry a weapon without a license.
11. Nobody but the military and police need a semi-automatic rifle. (which I actually thought was a better argument than 2 above.)
12. 30 round mags shred people and deer.

I know there were others but those are ones that come to mind. The good news is the doc said my new blood pressure meds should help.

[BENESSE]

I have had quite a number of conversations over the last few days with anti-gun folks. Here are some reasons presented to me about why they were in favor of the ban OR what's wrong with our weapons laws today. .

So what is one to do with that info?
It's not like you'll say, (unconditional pro-gun folks) hey, I know where you're coming from, and here's a way to deal with your concerns.

Seriously...there is no genuine desire on ether side to work this out to a mutual (societal) benefit.

[SARKY]

The one and only real reason for these people wanting to ban guns is......... ignorant, irrational fear!

[alaskabushman]

I also hear a lot of "why do you need a 'military style' rifle?" Of course they mean AR's...I have yet to hear someone refer to a model 1903 or Garand as "military style".

[kyratshooter]

So what is one to do with that info?
It's not like you'll say, (unconditional pro-gun folks) hey, I know where you're coming from, and here's a way to deal with your concerns.

Seriously...there is no genuine desire on ether side to work this out to a mutual (societal) benefit.


Work what out?

What social ill will be cured by me giving up a constitutional right?

Drunk driving kills one person every 48 minutes. We lose more each day to that problem than we lost in any shooting in history.

Ready to outlaw the booze? AGAIN? That worked out real well for us did it not?

How about the drugs that are reaponsible for 80% of the crime in the nation? Perhaps we should pass some legislation and make drgs illigal? Perhaps we should declare a WAR ON DRUGS. Bet that would eliminate the ills and be of societal benefit.

Me giving up my rights is not a compromise because no one on the other side is surrendering anything. Can you not get that through your head Ms B?

One side doing all the giving is not compromise!

As for me, I find that the only time I encounter anti-gunners is here on this forum.

[BENESSE]

Yessum. Loud 'n clear.
Don't even know where to start since I'm already on board 85%.
So...
You 'n I, Kyrat,will just have to stick to sweetened ice tea.

[GreatUsername]

I know I write long posts. Therefore, if you want a highly abbreviated summary, skip to the last line*****


I think that there are several points both sides are missing. A common factor in many/most mass-shootings and gang-related shootings is that the firearms were legally bought by someone who the perpetrator knew personally, and were either borrowed or stolen from said individual. I'd personally want a requirement that all firearms be adequately secured. Will everyone comply? No, but it is possible to make it worth complying, worth it enough that many people who currently don't comply will do so. Guns aren't dangerous, and neither are the people who buy them, generally. Their mentally-damaged or gang-affiliated kin, however, can be, and no background check will allow for that.

To enforce the personal securing of every citizen's firearms, one might consider incentives for gunsafes or other security measures, be they restrictions such as requiring proof of ownership of a safe to buy a new firearm, taxbreaks for the same, or fees or penalties for purchases without.

Is that unreasonable? Not necessarily. What's something else potentially dangerous that you must show proof of ownership of something else in order to buy? A car. Do we complain about requirements to buy insurance prior to car purchase? Is it it irritating? Sure. Is it helpful and somewhat necessary? Yes.

I personally think that while it makes sense to have a loaded gun in the house or on your person while you can attend to it, any gun that is not immediately in your possesion or potential use ought to be unloaded. If a gun is unloaded, then you really don't need it to be out where the unstable or potentially violent could get it. You wouldn't leave your car unlocked, why would you leave your gun unlocked? Remember, in the case of the Connecticut shooter's mother, her mistake cost her life. A gunsafe may be expensive, but it's an important investment, important enough to mandate.



Last note: I am against banning any gun outright. I in fact wish that automatics were still legally available to everyone*

*who is qualified.

They say that semi-automatics aren't needed by the average civillian, only military and police? Perhaps. What about a trained civilian? Being an officer or a soldier doesn't make you responsible, it's the training involved that makes you responsible. I think that perhaps it would be reasonable to restrict firearms for the untrained (just as you need a license to drive), but I really don't care if the government were to know I would have a firearms license, and the training and testing required for me to have "military only" guns seems very much in following with the "well regulated militia" part of the 2nd ammendment. Regulations to me mean training, not restrictions. But you have to force people to get training through licensing, so while that IS a restriction, I think it's worth the extra safety it would bring.

Remember, the majority of firearms injuries and deaths in this country are accidents, very often self-inflicted. Training eliminates that somewhat.

And to all of you who say "licenses let the government know who to target first during martial law!", if the government has gone THAT far awry, why wouldn't you already be raising rebellion in true Jeffersonian fashion? If the government is ready to take my guns away or do worse, simply because I have a license, that's my signal to either leave or fight. I have faith they'd use knowledge of our licenses responsibly, and I have the capability to do what's needed if they don't respect that (exception of course being if the people as a whole accept such disarmament, as I agree with the will of the country, even if it disagrees with me).

***** I think that firearms training and means to personally secure your guns should be required by law, and think it's a shame both sides don't think about those issues more.

[el-amigo]

I know it is not the topic where I allowed to 'be clever' (because I do not live in the US), but my opinion is that every citizen has the right to protect himself/herself or go out for a hunting, and the government should not 'govern' or ban it.

I really want a good handgun in my pocket when I come out from the underground after work, and a 3-5 members weird group try to steal my backpack, phone or just my wallet... Unfortunately the Hungarian laws do not allow it. How can I protect myself? If I hit them seriously with a strong, heavy item, then I will be sentenced because I was aggressive with these poor, homeless people. Sinners have more rights than we have...

[Geek]

We should require every home, except those with prohibited persons, to maintain one firearm, similar to Kennesaw, GA, on a national basis. The reduction in crime would be staggering.

[Rick]

I just thought it interesting that the folks I've talked to were very passionate in their beliefs yet really had no idea what they were talking about. It's like saying, "Yeah, I'd like a Chevy Volt with a Cummings diesel 'cause you get better mileage out of diesel." Well, okay.

[Sarge47]

I couldn't resist posting some comebacks to these excuses!


I have had quite a number of conversations over the last few days with anti-gun folks. Here are some reasons presented to me about why they were in favor of the ban OR what's wrong with our weapons laws today. Not presented in any special order.

1. High capacity CLIPS aren't necessary. (I've heard this a lot)

No, but they're a lot of fun! :cowboy:

2. Semi-Auto hunting rifles have no place in hunting so there is no need for them. (read that again, slowly...semi-auto hunting rifles have no place in hunting...)

...and you've been hunting HOW LONG that makes you an expert?

3. The 5.56 round is one of the most dangerous.

As opposed to.....what? Ever seen a .454? How a .50 cal.?

4. It takes a lot of time to reload a 10 round clip (I guess it takes no time to reload a 30, I don't know)

Then it should 3 times as long to reload a 30 round clip, right?

5. Flash suppressors make all guns dangerous.

No, it's the idiot behind the trigger that does that, just like it's the idiot behind the wheel of a car that makes the car dangerous! Should we all just get rid of the automobiles and rely on public transit?

6. No one should be able to purchase a gun at a gun store without a background check.

We already have that in Illinois, it's not doing any good, the bad guys either steal them or buy them from illegal gun dealers.

7. The Bushmaster can fire 5 rounds a second.

Wow! Really? Where can I buy one!

8. The 2nd Amendment was written 100 years ago. A lot has changed.

​That argument would also then apply to the other amendments as well. So then we should also do away with freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, the right to lawful assembly...? Also, if you believe your argument, then we should also trash the Declaration of Independence since it's a lot older, right?

9. The NRA allowed drug cartels to buy guns that were used to kill border patrol agents.

No, it was the present administration that caused that: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/06/the-real-scandal-of-fast-and-furious/258844/#



10. You shouldn't be able to carry a weapon without a license.

Does that also apply to baseball bats since they can be used as a weapon?

11. Nobody but the military and police need a semi-automatic rifle. (which I actually thought was a better argument than 2 above.)

Good, tell that to the Taliban!

12. 30 round mags shred people and deer.

No, not the mags, a machine gun does that.

I know there were others but those are ones that come to mind. The good news is the doc said my new blood pressure meds should help.

[1776]

I know it is not the topic where I allowed to 'be clever' (because I do not live in the US), but my opinion is that every citizen has the right to protect himself/herself or go out for a hunting, and the government should not 'govern' or ban it.

I really want a good handgun in my pocket when I come out from the underground after work, and a 3-5 members weird group try to steal my backpack, phone or just my wallet... Unfortunately the Hungarian
laws do not allow it. How can I protect myself? If I hit them seriously with a strong, heavy item, then I will be sentenced because I was aggressive with these poor, homeless people. Sinners have more rights than we have...

Without the Right to self defense you are the property of those that deny it to you. Your most valuable property is you. So it is not surprising that various mostly socialistic nations would deny this Right. I believe England has also practically criminalized self defense. Self defense is essentially a property Rights issue. Once your life itself no longer belongs to you ie the Right by law to protect it, then all your property is endangered.

For instance does anyone really need a car that can go 200mph? There is nowhere in the US which allows this speed limit on public roads. There are laws against it and the law abiding obey it so we allow them on our roads. Same with firearms. Once we decide what the law abiding 'need' there is no end to what we will disallow them to have or do. Who needs to climb mountains or ride horses or go boating? If public safety is the issue and a utopian world of long life free from risk and harm is the goal and the argument then lock us away in padded cells and issue us a bottle of vodka. Actually issuing vodka might not be a bad idea.

My main point being that there is a much greater agenda behind this attempted gun grab, that being property Rights which is the right to live itself for yourself in pursuit of your own healthy self interests.

[crashdive123]

As I've said before - the Constitution is not a bargaining chip. It's important to remember that the part of the Constitution being debated is part of the Bill of Rights, not the Bill of Needs.

[hunter63]

As I've said before - the Constitution is not a bargaining chip. It's important to remember that the part of the Constitution being debated is part of the Bill of Rights, not the Bill of Needs.

Plus 1, if one falls can the others be far behind........?

[LowKey]

Rick, your list illustrates exactly what is wrong with the currently one-sided discussion on the topic of gun control.
There is a lot of misinformation out there regarding what exactly it means to be a law-abiding firearms owner.

Before any member of the legislature votes on any sort of gun control, they should attempt to get a License to Carry in the state they are representing (some may have it easier than others). They don't have to purchase the <evil> gun. Just try to get the license.
Then maybe they will understand exactly what a law-abiding gun owner in the US has to do these days to remain a lawful gun owner.
I'm willing to bet some of them don't even know they personally don't qualify.

As to securing firearms within the home, said firearms need to be secured against unauthorized use, ie keep out of reach of children. "Unauthorized use" should not need to extend to cover the possibility of a criminal breaking into a person's dwelling and stealing their property. Law abiding people do not break in to people's houses.

Why is it that the anti-gun crowd cannot understand that criminals, by definition, do not care about laws.

But more importantly, why is it they cannot understand that law-abiding gun owners, by definition, are not criminals.

[jfeatherjohn]

Out here in AZ, the legislature passed a bill to allow carrying carrying weapons without a permit. People worked really hard to craft our concealed carry law, and I still believe it is a model for our nation.
John McCain got the heck beat out of him because he supported requiring background checks at gun shows. I still believe that he was right.
Our national treasure is our constitution. I still believe that they were right.
The last time I went hunting was when I was 17, and I got shot. I was hunting with a small group of LEOs and firefighters.
No, it is not OK to carry around a weapon that you don't know how to shoot, which, unfortunatly put me against most law enforcement agencies. All that would ask is qualifying with a weapon 4 times per year; most agencies require this annually.
I want to be very careful about messing the constitution, but there are limits, even to freedom.
BTW, I have a pre second ban AK-47, complete with a number of 30 round magazines. I purchased it just to piss Bill Clinton off.
So, am I done yet?

[LowKey]

Don't you have to pass the NICS to purchase though?
Or still have a license to purchase, even if it's just one that says you are over 18?
Even VT requires that much. Little else, but that much. I don't see the law-abiding Vermonters (or the Arizonans) out shooting each other in the streets. Only criminals do that.

I don't own a black rifle. Never found the need.
But I don't begrudge any other legal firearms owner from owning one.
Maybe anti-gunners should just exercise their right not to own one either and leave the rest of the country alone.

[1776]

Should we have to be a member of the militia to be free from unwarranted search and seizure, or to speak freely, or worship or not as we see fit? Do we need a license to write a book or post on the web, or to have a home printer? Do we need to register our books? If such membership and licenses were even being joked about in order to enjoy any of our other Rights the population would be outraged and justly so. Just sayin what is next? Banning overly large sodas, salt, transfat, fast food restaurants, certain kinds of food in your kids lunch box at school, banning religious symbols in public? We are already sliding down the slope and gaining speed fast.

[jfeatherjohn]

Don't you have to pass the NICS to purchase though?
Or still have a license to purchase, even if it's just one that says you are over 18?
Even VT requires that much. Little else, but that much. I don't see the law-abiding Vermonters (or the Arizonans) out shooting each other in the streets. Only criminals do that.

I don't own a black rifle. Never found the need.
But I don't begrudge any other legal firearms owner from owning one.
Maybe anti-gunners should just exercise their right not to own one either and leave the rest of the country alone.

Yes, to purchase a weapon from a dealer, you do have to have a background check. Most of the larger gun shows are voluntarily requiring background checks.
AZ DPS updates their database several times per day, so the background checks are really quick.

[GreatUsername]

Should we have to be a member of the militia to be free from unwarranted search and seizure, or to speak freely, or worship or not as we see fit? Do we need a license to write a book or post on the web, or to have a home printer? Do we need to register our books? If such membership and licenses were even being joked about in order to enjoy any of our other Rights the population would be outraged and justly so. Just sayin what is next? Banning overly large sodas, salt, transfat, fast food restaurants, certain kinds of food in your kids lunch box at school, banning religious symbols in public? We are already sliding down the slope and gaining speed fast.

I'd say that this is somewhat different though. Guns have a proven capability to cause massive physical, personal, and societal harm if owned by those who don't know how to keep or use them safely, whereas the rights covered in the other parts of the bill of rights do not, at least not on the same scale. You could use the "slippery slope" argument, but there have been licenses for all sorts of other things for YEARS, and notice, they only ever seem to be for things that could be dangerous to others: contractors licenses, medical licenses, specialized vehicular licenses, etc.

Believe what you want, but I think the government oppresses us through ignorance, not willful malice. I feel entirely comfortable saying that licenses could be introduced on firearms, without any fear that licenses will then extend to my religious freedoms, etc.

[crashdive123]

I'd say that this is somewhat different though. Guns have a proven capability to cause massive physical, personal, and societal harm if owned by those who don't know how to keep or use them safely, whereas the rights covered in the other parts of the bill of rights do not, at least not on the same scale. You could use the "slippery slope" argument, but there have been licenses for all sorts of other things for YEARS, and notice, they only ever seem to be for things that could be dangerous to others: contractors licenses, medical licenses, specialized vehicular licenses, etc.

Believe what you want, but I think the government oppresses us through ignorance, not willful malice. I feel entirely comfortable saying that licenses could be introduced on firearms, without any fear that licenses will then extend to my religious freedoms, etc.

I've got no statistics, but I'd venture a guess that words have done more damage than guns every thought about doing.

[wholsomback]

It's not the gun that does the killing it's the mental case that should have never been able to buy one in the first place.People kill people and always have and always will,weather with a gun, a knife,poison,bat,automobile strangulation you name it,they still have murder without guns and it outnumbers gun murder 3 to 1.So would it not be prudent to get rid of the offender or remove the mental patient to proper facilities.And on this war on drugs give me a break, that crap was around when I was in high school and I'm almost 44,has it worked yet?NOT!You show me crime committed in this country that is not committed by reoffenders out for a joyride back to prison and I'll show you utopia.I will protect me and mine ,thankgod I live in Texas. And I don't know anyone who does not own firearms so where all this is coming from must be DC where you cant own one.

[GreatUsername]

Imprisonment and mental institutions are pretty expensive. And we imprison more than any other first world nation. Perhaps decriminalizing those drugs would solve some problems? If gangs don't have illicit goods to traffic, they probably won't be fighting as much anyways.

As for mental cases buying guns, this is why it's important to do background checks. During the time of the Founding Fathers, such individuals were less common as they often died due to lack of proper medical and psychiatric care, and those who remained usually were too poor to afford or acquire firearms. So while normally I disagree with the "it's outdated" argument, I think this makes a case for mental evaluations, or SOME sort of very basic set of qualifications required for firearms purchase.

And as I've said before: a huge number of gang and mass shootings use stolen or borrowed guns. People need to lock up their own guns better, and trust people less. I don't care how much you love your son or daughter, if they have a severe disorder, it's irresponsible to not keep your guns secured. Those loose guns account for the higher death-toll from firearms each year: accidental shootings.

And of course... keep your own piece close at hand. It's your right, and your responsibility to protect you and yours when the seconds count and help is only minutes away.

[Geek]

Imprisonment and mental institutions are pretty expensive. And we imprison more than any other first world nation. Perhaps decriminalizing those drugs would solve some problems? If gangs don't have illicit goods to traffic, they probably won't be fighting as much anyways.

As for mental cases buying guns, this is why it's important to do background checks. During the time of the Founding Fathers, such individuals were less common as they often died due to lack of proper medical and psychiatric care, and those who remained usually were too poor to afford or acquire firearms. So while normally I disagree with the "it's outdated" argument, I think this makes a case for mental evaluations, or SOME sort of very basic set of qualifications required for firearms purchase.

And as I've said before: a huge number of gang and mass shootings use stolen or borrowed guns. People need to lock up their own guns better, and trust people less. I don't care how much you love your son or daughter, if they have a severe disorder, it's irresponsible to not keep your guns secured. Those loose guns account for the higher death-toll from firearms each year: accidental shootings.

And of course... keep your own piece close at hand. It's your right, and your responsibility to protect you and yours when the seconds count and help is only minutes away.

We had 500,000 inpatient psychiatric beds in the 1950s, but only have about 50,000 now. I find it hard to believe we can't afford the level of care we provided in the 1950s. In addition, I think that Obamacare decided that we can afford any and all healthcare needed by anyone.

As for prisons, it would be better for society to decriminalize lots of activities, like owning a 30 round magazine (currently illegal in DC and about 7 states), and get truly dangerous individuals off the streets.

[LowKey]

Instead of making prisons the 'cushy' places you describe them as, how bout we think of them as one vast renewable energy source.
Giant gerbil wheels.
Have the inmates generate the electricity needed to watch their TVs and turn on the lights in their cells.
And 3/4 of what they generate can go out to the grid.
Make em work.
Course, that might make em harder to catch on release...
As for the war on drugs, like prohibition, once legalized, the 'gangs' will just turn their attention to something else that's hard to get. There will always be something else someone with money is willing to pay for.

The 1950s institutional system was a series of small almost self-supporting communities the likes of which we'll never see again. Mostly because the skills have been lost and the land is no longer available. They were large working farms, grew much of their own food, used the inmate population in sort of occupational therapy in the fields and had huge staffs. There was also reportedly a lot of abuse and not a whole lot of cures, plus now coming to light are more stories of people incarcerated simply because it was more convenient to 'put them away.'

There are several old State Hospital properties in MA that are currently Wildlife Management Areas and offer some of the best hunting in the state. The land is mostly fallow fields and encroaching forest, great for deer and bird cover. But wandering around out there you can see the old outbuildings, the once tilled fields and the broken cattle fences and just know that era is gone.

[Delta 5168]

So what is one to do with that info?
It's not like you'll say, (unconditional pro-gun folks) hey, I know where you're coming from, and here's a way to deal with your concerns.

Seriously...there is no genuine desire on ether side to work this out to a mutual (societal) benefit.

Roger that, B. About as much interest as trying to balance the federal budget!

[Warheit]

Good cherry pickin'. I see what you did there.

[RobinD69]

I have had quite a number of conversations over the last few days with anti-gun folks. Here are some reasons presented to me about why they were in favor of the ban OR what's wrong with our weapons laws today. Not presented in any special order.

1. High capacity CLIPS aren't necessary. (I've heard this a lot)

Sure they are, who wants to constantly reload?

2. Semi-Auto hunting rifles have no place in hunting so there is no need for them. (read that again, slowly...semi-auto hunting rifles have no place in hunting...) I actually got tripped up on this one. I had to ask them to repeat it.

Sure they do, who wants to chamber a round manually if the gun can do it for you?

3. The 5.56 round is one of the most dangerous.

The round is harmless and less dangerous than a drunk drive.

4. It takes a lot of time to reload a 10 round clip (I guess it takes no time to reload a 30, I don't know)

OK then get multiple mags.

5. Flash suppressors make all guns dangerous.

HOW?

6. No one should be able to purchase a gun at a gun store without a background check.

OK I don't think anyone can.

7. The Bushmaster can fire 5 rounds a second.

Whoopt te do, so can some people.

8. The 2nd Amendment was written 100 years ago. A lot has changed.

And alot is expected to change, thats no reason to take our guns.

9. The NRA allowed drug cartels to buy guns that were used to kill border patrol agents.

I thought the Obama administration did that.

10. You shouldn't be able to carry a weapon without a license.

Why not? The criminals do.

11. Nobody but the military and police need a semi-automatic rifle. (which I actually thought was a better argument than 2 above.)

Still doesn't stop the criminals.

12. 30 round mags shred people and deer.

I believe it's actually the operator not the weapon or it's mag.

I know there were others but those are ones that come to mind. The good news is the doc said my new blood pressure meds should help.

You know theres an answer for everything.

[RobinD69]

Roger that, B. About as much interest as trying to balance the federal budget!


You do realize they have to make a budget in order to balance it, you know something that hasn't done yet in 4 years.

[Seniorman]

GREATUSERNAME - "... Guns have a proven capability to cause massive physical, personal, and societal harm if owned by those who don't know how to keep or use them safely, whereas the rights covered in the other parts of the bill of rights do not, at least not on the same scale."

Have you ever heard of Marx's "The Communist Manifesto," or Hitler's "Mein Kamp," or Mao's "Little Red Book?"

Those are just the tip of the modern-day iceberg of "highly dangerous words."

Anytime our Government begins "licensing" or "mandating conditions" on an individual's Constitutional and inalienable Rights, those Rights are no longer "Rights," but Government granted privileges, revokable anytime by politicians' whims and nefarious plans.

That is a fact, not a supposition.

When people say, "Ahh, we can trust politicians to do the right thing as they just want to help everyone have a nice day, I am always reminded of the line in a play/movie written by the late, great playwright, Tennessee Williams, in "A Streetcar Named Desire."

In one scene, the main character "Stanley" is talking to his destitute, pretentious and snobbish, freeloading sister-in-law "Blanche DuBois," for whom he has great disgust. He asks her, "Blanche, how in Hell have you ever gotten along all these years?"

Blanche answers, "I have always depended on the kindness of strangers."

That is the same as people who say, "Trust the politicians (strangers) 'cause they'll do the right thing for us. They only want a few of our Rights and if we give them up, they'll not want any more. We can depend on them."

Until the next "compromise."

Nope, I'll not depend on "the kindness of strangers (politicians)." I've spent far too many years observing their "kindness."

S.M.

[frmr_cityguy1983]

The government doesn't care and the church has gotten fat and lazy, so who's going to take care of these people who A. Shouldn't have a gun, and b. aren't receiving the SUPERVISED care they need? yes, legalize and regulate drugs, prostitution and gambling (just like we do everything else in our society). things that are regulated but legal :cars, driving privileges, tobacco, alcohol, businesses, employment, health care, all foreign trading, some local trading, food procuction, processing and sanitation and storage, hunting, fishing (both commercial and private), building and maintaining residences, land rights and zoning. weapons have been neccessary for the same reasons since we lived in the cave, just the weapon has changed. and the first murder was committed with a rock. so none of these issues are new, we have simply lost the idea of personal responsibility and sanctity of human life.

[LowKey]

a huge number of gang and mass shootings use stolen or borrowed guns. People need to lock up their own guns better...
Last I looked, breaking and entering was a crime.
Breaking and entering with intent to steal a firearm is a felony.
Maybe we need to lock up the criminals instead.

[Geek]

Imprisonment and mental institutions are pretty expensive. And we imprison more than any other first world nation. Perhaps decriminalizing those drugs would solve some problems? If gangs don't have illicit goods to traffic, they probably won't be fighting as much anyways.

As for mental cases buying guns, this is why it's important to do background checks. During the time of the Founding Fathers, such individuals were less common as they often died due to lack of proper medical and psychiatric care, and those who remained usually were too poor to afford or acquire firearms. So while normally I disagree with the "it's outdated" argument, I think this makes a case for mental evaluations, or SOME sort of very basic set of qualifications required for firearms purchase.

And as I've said before: a huge number of gang and mass shootings use stolen or borrowed guns. People need to lock up their own guns better, and trust people less. I don't care how much you love your son or daughter, if they have a severe disorder, it's irresponsible to not keep your guns secured. Those loose guns account for the higher death-toll from firearms each year: accidental shootings.

And of course... keep your own piece close at hand. It's your right, and your responsibility to protect you and yours when the seconds count and help is only minutes away.

We had 500,000 inpatient psychiatric beds in the 1950s. Now we have 50,000. I suspect we can do more in this area. Imprisonment is largely a byproduct of the war on drugs. That has worked about as well as Prohibition, so we could could use the resources from there to pay for the psychiatric beds we need.

As for the argument about gangs and mass shootings being done with stolen guns, that may be true for gangs, but in everyone of the mass shootings that has whipped up this frenzy the guns were legally obtained. Gabby Giffords shooter had purchased his guns. The Aurora, CO shooter had purchased his own guns. The latest one in CT, the mother bought the guns. Clearly the NICS system does not contain enough mental health information.

[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

�и�т (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/9772)160 (http://cottagenet.ru)прох (http://eyesvision.ru/physics/23)have (http://eyesvisions.com)Кары (http://factoringfee.ru/t/321020)Want (http://filmzones.ru/t/130869)Enjo (http://gadwall.ru/t/130819)Капы (http://gaffertape.ru/t/336839)Eric (http://gageboard.ru/t/325592)проф (http://gagrule.ru/t/243490)Марч (http://gallduct.ru/t/296118)Juli (http://galvanometric.ru/t/262090)Atla (http://gangforeman.ru/t/140147)1087 (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/141809)Волы (http://garbagechute.ru/t/674958)
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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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