LESSONS LEARNED FROM SANDY - A microcosm of understanding.

[Wise Old Owl]

Here we are a few days into the aftermath and while politicians are patting themselves on the back for a job well done, the reality is setting in for those that were unprepared and the stories are starting to leak out how bad it really is.

Here is a good place to leave something as a book for others to read....I will start it off.

People did not see a need to have two types of phones-cellular and the old hardwired. So when the power went out in Manhatten the cell towers did not have generators and the cell service died. People could not call for help and were trapped in high rises. They had long since cancelled there old hardwire service.

No surprise if there's no electricity - there's no flush, and the same people are urinating or defecating in the halls outside their apartments.

No Refrigeration - no food - no ability to cook or warm things up... two days later reports of dumpster diving behind restaurants.

[Wise Old Owl]

Exspect Gas in the region to double... while across America will drop. Price gouging sent NYC gas $10 a gallon.

Gas lines will be based on license plates - even and odd on different days.

28 million gallons limit ten gallons per customer distributed by dept of defense by military

8475http://localtvwiti.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/brooklyn-gas.jpg?w=400

[Echo2]

I wouldn't expect anything less from the populace at large.

A small hand held CB would allow you to call for help.....channel 9 IIRC.

Do half these folks think about the battery back up for their computer?.....it would run a LED lamp for days.

I'm having a hard time feeling sorry for the folks that just lost power......I guess the week long warning just wasn't enough time to make some arrangements.

My heart goes out to the folks that lost everything.....but if you are still breathing.....90% of the battle is won...the other 10% is dealing with the insurance companies.

I hope this sparks a lot of folks to get their ducks in a row as far as inventory of insured items....stored off location.

Sorry if I sound cynical.....sometimes sheep just get under my skin.

[Batch]

No surprise if there's no electricity - there's no flush, and the same people are urinating or defecating in the halls outside their apartments.

Most toilets are gravity fed. You just need enough water in the bowl to push the waste through the trap enough for gravity to take over. Water storage in the city should be a BIG priority. I would also not waste too much potable water. Any grey water generated could be used to flush a toilet though. You shouldn't flush urine in these circumstances. Adopt the rule if if its brown flush it down and if its yellow let it mellow.

BTW, as Rick has a list on reasons not to come to Florida. I now have started one for big cities. Rule one people defecating in the hall. I'd much rather be up to my *** in alligators! :blink:

[Wise Old Owl]

Next good lesson (something I forgot to do) Cash - no power - no credit cards - no mac machines.

I have an old SW AM/FM and about a year ago I found some 300 feet of copper wire left over from a dog fence so I launched it for AM long distance and ran it out to the tree from the house about 20 feet high and 150 feet out. So as I am sitting here near Valley Forge PA I am listening in on talk radio stations in NYC. There is a lot of truth to the "drive by media" As I sat here watching Philadelphia news - there was little mention of New Yorkers.

Yes theres a car battery in a tupperware on a trickle charge. Days of Radio and TV.

[kyratshooter]

City, suburbs or rural, the rules are the same. Shelter, water, food.

The major differnce in the cities is the concentration of people results in a concentration of stupid people, who outnumber the smart people by a wide margin. They also scream much louder than the smart people so they can not hear advice, orders or instructions over their own noise and are upprepared when the unusual happens.

They also tend to be more systems dependent, resulting in the call for government assistance rather than the call for family assistance.

Where I live (and this is first hand disaster experience) the first calls are often not to 911, they are to Mom, Dad, sons, daughters, quickly followed by cousins, neices and nephews. Granma and grandad are called for supervisory experience and the releaf effort begins! If you can't find any of them you call 911. The 911 guy is busy, no need to bother him and he probably does not even have a chainsaw you can use!

I have come to the conclusion over the years that the reason people do not prepare is not because they do not care, it is because they are STUPID!

And guess what? No list you make is going to do them any good 'cause"

"You can't fix STUPID!"

[Wise Old Owl]

Next good lesson (something I do every time) I get the Supermarket Distilled water Gallons I place two gallons in each freezer. They freeze up after 24 hours and unfreeze takes two to three days... after six hours I transfer one of the gallons into the center of the refrigerator. This system works as well as dry ice and I have drinking water and wash water on the cheap.

For those on a well - fill the bathtub prior to the storm and have a "clean" three gallon bucket handy - use your imagination.

[Wise Old Owl]

Two surprises I found out yesterday - here locally those that can afford it got out - exstended stay and hotels around Philadelphia are surrounded with cars with plates from NY and NJ. Many Hotels are booked full. Many dropped everything and fled NYC.

Red Cross set up a thousand people at West Chester University at South Campus 30 miles west of Philadelphia. Refugees of New Jersey bussed to stay in the gymnasium. Meals and Cots and tractor trailers for service. Having seen this before firsthand after a tornado years ago - I am not sure I would want to be there.

[Dagar]

Also lessons learned from Katrina and Andrew. My family went through Andrew in 92. The whole infrastructure in Homestead was blown away or flooded out. It was if I remember correctly 3 months before power was restored back to the majority of the city. I think they got the water online a little sooner.

Worst thing not have in a situation like this is a firearm. Gangs from Miami would come down and loot and raid. Even with martial law and they did put that into effect, but Andrew unlike Katrina, they did not go in and take away people's guns from them, leaving them vulnerable. The gun laws of NY and NJ are going to make it very difficult for the average person to stay safe. Not to mention, rotten debris, mold and mildew, homes that will need to be gutted or torn down to repair or rebuild.

The other issue NY and NJ will have this coming week is there is another Nor'easter on it's way up the coast, this will cause more damage, more flooding and create stress on the people still there.

Bloomberg is not letting the National Guard into stricken areas because he only wants NYPD on the scene with guns. The emergency services are already strained beyond their 9-11 capacity. And people are dying now, you can only live 3 days with no water, many will perish because they did not have water or could not get down out of high rise buildings to find water.

Something else to mention, which if you are not a hurricane storm prepper, the center pressure of Sandy, was equal to a Cat 3-4 hurricane, not to mention it's size, far large in scale than Katrina or Irene, though Irene was loaded with water and rain unlike Sandy.

This is why the weather forecasters kept talking about how "LOW" the center of pressure was but they never related it to anything people could connect to it. This is why even though Sandy as a hurricane was only a Cat 1 on the scale for winds, it was in the center in reality a Cat3 or better.

It's going to be a mess and get worse.

[Wise Old Owl]

8477

Here is how I have Kitchen back up - the tree can be connected to a Coleman propane light and a Mr.Heatbuddy at the same time...its backed up with a (2) Twenty gallon bottles. one is outside attached to a BBQ and they both have meters.

First couple of times I used a Carbon Monoxide detector - but that was so low - I have since moved it into my dad's camper.

[Dagar]

When we lived in VABeach, Isbella was heading into us as a Cat 4 hurricane. We lived a whole 7 miles from the beach. Seeing my family go through Andrew and the aftermath I did not stay to see the end result. I took the kids and drive inland to Greensboro NC. The storm was downgraded as it came into the coast but you can not wait that long to evacuate and see if the Cat 4 will drop to a Cat1 when you live in an area of 1M+ people and your only way out is under water bridge tunnels and bridges. We really could not afford to leave, but I stuffed 4 of us in a hotel room for $39 a night and I left two days before the storm hit.

When these storms head into the shore if you do not make the decision to leave before the rest of the population, you get stuck. If you are going to leave, get OOD well ahead of the masses. Remember the Katrina mess...people stuck on the interstate wasting gas moving at .5 mph and stuck in traffic 10 hrs to drive 30 miles? Not worth it.

[Pal334]

Exspect Gas in the region to double... while across America will drop. Price gouging sent NYC gas $10 a gallon.

Gas lines will be based on license plates - even and odd on different days.

28 million gallons limit ten gallons per customer distributed by dept of defense by military

8475http://localtvwiti.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/brooklyn-gas.jpg?w=400

Odd,, the price , even today for gas is edging downwards in all of NJ. Only problems are elctrical power for pumps. The "odd ,even" system here is only for 3-4 days until the gas stations in the northern half of the state get power back, the southern half, it does not apply at all. Very few stations away from the shore areas are closed, and are recieving fuel deliveries almost as normal. Where stations are open anywhere in the state , there are no"gallons per customer" limits in place any where in the state. National Guard fuel tankers are delivering Federally released fuel to those stations in areas not readily accessible to commercial fuel trucks.No Federal or National Guard forces are actually controlling the "pumping" of gas. Not sure where you are getting your information from, but unfortunately it does not resemble the realities here in NJ /NY areas

PS,, I stand corrected. Saw this;;;;New York's governor says the U.S. Department of Defense will set up emergency mobile fuel stations around the New York City metro area.

[WolfVanZandt]

I heard a woman on the radio the other day talking about their decision (she admits they could have gotten out) to remain in their home in coastal New Jersey with a sick elder. When they found themselves stranded and in a life threatening situation, they called for help. They were informed that they had had a chance to leave and now there wasn't enough manpower to get them out. Her comment was that instead of talking rescue, they could start talking body camp. She sounded disgruntled that "they" couldn't get them out.

"They" were in the process of risking "their" lives doing what they could with what they had to work with. The woman and her family, by the way, actually did survive.

The first mental adjustment to survival is to take responsibility for your own life and modern humanity just doesn't get that.

[Wise Old Owl]

Next good lesson (something I forgot to do) Cash - no power - no credit cards - no mac machines.

I have an old SW AM/FM and about a year ago... So as I am sitting here near Valley Forge PA I am listening in on talk radio stations in NYC.

Yes theres a car battery in a tupperware on a trickle charge. Days of Radio and TV.


Not sure where you are getting your information from, but unfortunately it does not resemble the realities here in NJ /NY areas

uh you missed it... straight off the local stations in NYC. and from members living there right now on Long Island

[Geek]

I'm in NJ but not near the shore. Power has been out since last Monday. Destruction was primarily trees coming down on utilitiy wires, houses, etc. Today was the first time I saw an open gas station. The lines were long as has been described on the news. I had several friends who had shore places subatantially damaged. My cousin on Long Island is also going through similar events there.

I could make some comments on lessons learned, but the event isn't really over yet.

Everyone in my household is well. We have a generator wored into the panel that has worked flawlessly since Monday. We also have plenty of gas. Getting around has been diffficult due to downed trees, inoperable traffic signals, and of course the well publicized gas problem, which clogging roads whereever lines form.

[crashdive123]

I have spoken with several friends on the Jersey Shore (Brick, Seabright, Asbury) that are still without power. They were prepared fairly well but still cannot believe the destruction they are experiencing. In their little neighborhoods things are going as well as can be expected. Most of them are using social media to communicate, as it seems the most reliable (in terms of being able to "get through"). I have friends on Long Island that I have not heard from yet.

[Rick]

Just a correction on the cell towers. Virtually all phone buildings have either generator backup on site or a generator coupling for the building. That certainly doesn't preclude damage to towers. I've seen tornadoes actually move a microwave horn so that it is no longer in alignment, which means no service. Those sites that have couplings will be down until employees can get to that location and hook up a mobile generator if they are without commercial power. Those are always top priority so I would expect them to be down a minimal amount of time IF THAT IS THE ONLY PROBLEM.

While voice service might be out on your cell don't forget about text. It will often work when voice is not available.

You're overall concern about multiple means of communication is a valid one.

[Geek]

The good thing about cell vs. Land line phone service is one can be operating when the other is out, assuming you have both. We get our land line service from the cable company. That lasted about 8 hours after the power and then went out, so I now know how much backup they have. Cell service is degraded, but operating at my location. I understand about 25 percent of all towers are out in my area, but I have service.

It could just as easily been the other way around.

[Rick]

You probably have a battery backup in your cable modem just for power outage. I'm not sure what type of modem you have but mine are located in the bottom of the modem.

[Echo2]

This is why our comms guy is trying to figure out the data transmission end of his HAM units....his Icom unit is capable of doing it.....it's just figuring out how to make it come together.

[JPGreco]

Depending on who you talk to NY is either devastated or just in an inconvenience (as a total area). The thing is, that no matter how much damage there is, we have places to go for shelter and food. It took less than a day to start getting utilities back up and running so there are areas with power and most places in those areas are opening doors for charging cell phones or just to have a warm place to hang out.

People talk about how strong the storm was, but the reality is it didn't really devastate because people are on their roofs still looking for help and food. I was talking to a friend and really, individuals were devastated. They lost their homes and some lost family members and my heart goes out to them. But a lot of people who are talking about devastation are talking about some lost physical possessions and power out for a few days to a couple of weeks. I will never accept that as devastation in the wake of Katrina, the Japan earthquake/tsunami, and a bunch of other natural disasters that have happened since 2000 that truly destroyed areas and cost hundreds of thousands of lives and still haven't recovered.

According to various sources Sandy was the second strongest hurricane on record. No matter what the pressure was equal to, the winds were only cat 1. You want devastation, the inevitable cat 3 or higher that pounds the tri-state area will be what everyone is saying this is.

[BENESSE]

JPG...even, if you were the only one who lost family members and property in this storm, you're not gonna give a rat's behind that the overall casualties were low compared to other monumental disasters. It all comes down to people, not statistics, when you watch it fall apart all around you.

[Echo2]

JPG...even, if you were the only one who lost family members and property in this storm, you're not gonna give a rat's behind that the overall casualties were low compared to other monumental disasters. It all comes down to people, not statistics, when you watch it fall apart all around you.

Correct....perception equals severity.

[cowgirlup]

[QUOTE=kyratshooter;367868]City, suburbs or rural, the rules are the same. Shelter, water, food.

The major differnce in the cities is the concentration of people results in a concentration of stupid people, who outnumber the smart people by a wide margin. They also scream much louder than the smart people so they can not hear advice, orders or instructions over their own noise and are upprepared when the unusual happens.

They also tend to be more systems dependent, resulting in the call for government assistance rather than the call for family assistance.

QUOTE]

Makes perfect sense to me!!! hehehehe

[Wildthang]

I think living in a coastal area is stupid to begin with. Even undeveloped natives know to build their villiages out of a flood zone, but we allow millions to live in areas affected by hurricanes, sunami's you name it! There is a lot of stupid going around!

[JPGreco]

JPG...even, if you were the only one who lost family members and property in this storm, you're not gonna give a rat's behind that the overall casualties were low compared to other monumental disasters. It all comes down to people, not statistics, when you watch it fall apart all around you.

And I mentioned that individuals were devastated and that my heart goes out to them. However, with only localized heavy damages, its absurd to say Long Island was devastated, as I hear over and over on the radio, which was my point. As with almost every large storm that hits this area it is over hyped by the media, which causes the people to overreact. We were very fortunate that the storm was only a cat 1, regardless of the overall power of the storm being very high. We are all also lucky that it lost so much energy almost immediately after making landfall. The original forecasts were much worse.


Correct....perception equals severity.

So then my perception of the severity is as valid as anyone else's.

[JPGreco]

I think living in a coastal area is stupid to begin with. Even undeveloped natives know to build their villiages out of a flood zone, but we allow millions to live in areas affected by hurricanes, sunami's you name it! There is a lot of stupid going around!

I have no problem with that, but if you choose to live in those area's, you gotta make sure you have the proper insurance and that you heed warnings. If I had one of those coastal homes, I would move all my irreplaceable possessions to higher ground ahead of the storm. Everything else would be covered via insurance and would be replaceable. Then, get your butt out of the flood zone as well.

Though tsunamis don't follow flood zones, they go pretty much where they want...

[Echo2]

So then my perception of the severity is as valid as anyone else's.

Well....yes.....to you.

But to some folks, breaking a nail is the end of the world.

Goes to the old adage....

http://www.sjtent.com/ef/shoppingcart/images/smallimages/69012.jpg

[hunter63]

As I'm not involved by this disaster, and don't have all the facts. I have stayed out of the discussion.

If you were effected it is/was/still is important to you regardless what the news storied say....and yeah i have to agree that the media tends to over-blow most any situation.....but unless I was there I wouldn't know that.

So thanks for the up date from your area, and an honest assessment....Glad y'all made it thru.....I sure that there are a lot of people that lost everything whether they prepared for it or not, you can do only so much.

Our thoughts and prayers are with y'all.

[Geek]

As I sit here, still running on my generator as we haven't had power in 6 days, this thing isn't over yet. I have read that this is supposed to be the 4th worst natural disaster in US history as of now.

We are supposed to get more bad weather next week. Many will not have gotten power restored in time. I am sure a few people will die and a lot more will be very uncomfortable. I don't know if this new storm will be seen as part of the same disaster or as a seperate event. It certainly isn't good.

Whatever your perception may be of this disaster, I suggest holding off on drawing conclusions until power is restored to everyone. In the meantime, we are getting an interesting test of a Grid Down scenario.

[JPGreco]

Well....yes.....to you.

But to some folks, breaking a nail is the end of the world.

Goes to the old adage....

http://www.sjtent.com/ef/shoppingcart/images/smallimages/69012.jpg

Oh, no doubt...lol Most people losing internet for an hour is horrible.

Hunter, I still have friends without power, I think the last numbers for my county was 130k people without power and the neighboring county like 300k out. The news isn't helping by talking about the gas shortage either, as the problem isn't as bad as they are making it either, but its causing huge lines at gas stations. The response of the station to ration gas is playing into it as well. The problem simply is that a lot of stations are still coming back online, but as they do, they have full tanks. If people would calm down, it wouldn't be as bad. I mean, its causing people who don't really need to fill up to freak out and go get on a gas line.

Geek, I hope you get turned on soon. Yeah, we're supposed to get a Nor'easter mid week. I think the weather is calling for rain wednesday and thursday. It doesn't seem to be a big one, but there is some worry about coastal flooding, as well as just delaying work on the power grid and such. Where are you from Geek?

[WolfVanZandt]

WildThang and JPGrecko, I agree to a certain extent, but is flood insurance that easy to get in flood prone areas? My position is that there are important resources in disaster prone areas but if you're going to live there, you should take responsibility for your decision to live there and be set up to evacuate at a moment's notice. You also need to be sorta Buddhist in your outlook and hold very lightly to material possessions.

[Echo2]

..... but if you're going to live there, you should take responsibility for your decision to live there and be set up to evacuate at a moment's notice. You also need to be sorta Buddhist in your outlook and hold very lightly to material possessions.

Amen...........

[Geek]

Geek, I hope you get turned on soon. Yeah, we're supposed to get a Nor'easter mid week. I think the weather is calling for rain wednesday and thursday. It doesn't seem to be a big one, but there is some worry about coastal flooding, as well as just delaying work on the power grid and such. Where are you from Geek?

Thanks. I'm cozy with the generator, but I seem to be the only one on the block, so I am more concerned about my neighbors. The next storm is supposed to be cold.

[JPGreco]

Yeah, I hear ya on that one. The rest of my town just got turned on aside from small areas with heavy damage. I have a friend with a little girl that I offered anything I could cause he has no power last I knew. Last I heard from our power authority, most people should be turned on by wednesday, leaving only the heaviest damaged areas. The line crews are doing very well this time around, at least by me.

[Geek]

Yeah, I hear ya on that one. The rest of my town just got turned on aside from small areas with heavy damage. I have a friend with a little girl that I offered anything I could cause he has no power last I knew. Last I heard from our power authority, most people should be turned on by wednesday, leaving only the heaviest damaged areas. The line crews are doing very well this time around, at least by me.

In NJ we have more people without power than in NY according to the news reports. The descriptions are interesting. We now have under 1 million without power, as opposed to almost 1 million. The outages tend to involve lots of down trees which makes fixing each break tedious and there are lots of downed trees. At this point, the outages seem to be in a crazy quilt arrangement. You can be without power while the next town over, or the next block has power. I think they're going to be busy for at least another week and that assumes no further damage from this next storm.

I am now feeling like I need a backup in case something happens to the generator or the supply of natural gas that it runs on. I've considered propane, but that still leaves me with the issue of the generator itself.

Backups to the backups.

[hunter63]

...............
I am now feeling like I need a backup in case something happens to the generator or the supply of natural gas that it runs on. I've considered propane, but that still leaves me with the issue of the generator itself.

Backups to the backups.

I hear ya, I'm betting a lot of gen-sets are gonna die......Under power for what they are being used for....not serviced after sitting for a long time....stored fuel.....
If your are on NG you should have a good one, made for continuous duty....but I'll bet a lot of then are the "camper/job-site specials" made for occasional use.

[Delta 5168]

I think living in a coastal area is stupid to begin with. Even undeveloped natives know to build their villiages out of a flood zone, but we allow millions to live in areas affected by hurricanes, sunami's you name it! There is a lot of stupid going around! How about the people in the Mississippi River flood plain? They get a new house every year!

[Delta 5168]

Someone memtioned inverters the other day. I'm going to pick one up ASAP. Sometimes it takes a situation like this to get us of the dime. The moral: learn from others hard experience!

[Geek]

I hear ya, I'm betting a lot of gen-sets are gonna die......Under power for what they are being used for....not serviced after sitting for a long time....stored fuel.....
If your are on NG you should have a good one, made for continuous duty....but I'll bet a lot of then are the "camper/job-site specials" made for occasional use.

I do have NG, but even those need an occasional oil change. Mine is supposed to get one every 100 hours of use.

[ElevenBravo]

Speaking of gensets, please visit http://www.propane-generators.com/

I would suggest the tri fuel kit. Plumb the genset into the home's NG source for "unlimited" fuel. Also have a few 20LB tanks handy, and... some Pri-G treated gas. Thats 3 levels of fallback for fuel.

Dont forget to check the oil level every 24 hours, and Id CHANGE oil every week. If you do this at a minimum the genset should be "good to go" for long durations.

I also like to plug a strong fan into one of the outlets, and blow directly on the engine to help it cool. Not being a water cooled unit, every little bit helps adding to long term reliability of the overall unit.

I do not have the setup in place due to lack of funds but the above is what I conclude after a few years of research.

As of now I only have gasoline as a fuel source, I hope to acquire a tri fuel kit in the future.

HTH,
Andrew

[Geek]

Quick update. Power is still out for over 500,000 NJ customers, including my neighborhood. Train service into NYC, where many NJ residents work, is still out. Gas station lines are quite bad and interfere with traffic in many places.

[Echo2]

A buddy of mine was coming up from Fla.....stopped by and borrowed my 120 gallon K1 tank (dropped about 40 gallons K1 into a drum)......was going to fill and take to his house in NJ to run genny.

His house is OK but has no power. His son called him and said "Bring gas".

He has a 6.5kw generator.....wonder how long it will run on a hundred gallons...:)

A friend in WV called....just got cell service and power yesterday eve.....got just over 2ft snow.

[rebel]

Anyone remember the 6 P's?

Prior
Planning
Prevents
Piss
Poor
Performance

[Geek]

We got power back this evening, and the generator cut off exactly as it was supposed to. The next street over is still blocked with downed trees and poles.

[JPGreco]

Rebel, I learned it as
Prior
PROPER
Planning
Prevents
Poor
Performance

I think proper is actually important, cause I can make a plan, but it may be awful.

[Wildthang]

Unless you can carry numerous spare parts, it is wise to have 2 generators, because a lot of generators break down due to high sustained rpm's, and the continuous load that is applied to most generating units.
I follow the old rule, 1 is none, and 2 is 1!

[hunter63]

Unless you can carry numerous spare parts, it is wise to have 2 generators, because a lot of generators break down due to high sustained rpm's, and the continuous load that is applied to most generating units.
I follow the old rule, 1 is none, and 2 is 1!

Good advice....I like that thinking...and don't over load them.

Actually 3 is even better yet, gives ya a smaller unit to carry around in the do everything trailer (call the trailer what ever you want but I use mine for a lot of things)
DD and SIL burned up a gen-set....over loaded it......so just bought another one,..... I brought it home (identical to mine)....and did a rebuild.

Now if I can just get past the pesky fuel and fuel going bad thing......

[Wildthang]

Good advice....I like that thinking...and don't over load them.

Actually 3 is even better yet, gives ya a smaller unit to carry around in the do everything trailer (call the trailer what ever you want but I use mine for a lot of things)
DD and SIL burned up a gen-set....over loaded it......so just bought another one,..... I brought it home (identical to mine)....and did a rebuild.

Now if I can just get past the pesky fuel and fuel going bad thing......

Well I just use some of my spare fuel to fill up my truck about every 2 months, and refill the cans and put stabilizer in them. So far I have never had any problems due to stale gas. I am in the process of finding a new 50 gallon barrel an a hand pump to boost my fuel storage capacity as well.
One thing I have found with small engines, is when I get a new peice of equipment, I run for about 3 hours with 30 weight Dino oil, then I drain it and put in mobile 1 T4 10/40 synthetic motorcycle oil, and my engines seem to run forever. At $8 a quart I dont use it in tillers and small lawnmowers, but in critical equipment like generators, it's worth the money!

[jfeatherjohn]

I couldn't handle a 3500 watt generator, so I bought 2 two k inverters. If I don't need all that wattage I can run just one. This has served me well.

[Geek]

No further damage reported from the snowstorm last night. We do have a couple inches on the ground which is not normal for this time of year and is likely to slow down the repair crews.

As someone who was affected, but not in the severest hit area, here are my lessons learned:

1) The probability of outages of any particular length of time is higher than I previously thought. After 12 years in my current home the longest previous outage I had suffered was 3 days. This one was 8 days.
2) The generator was wonderful. I need more oil and filters for interim servicing and sound deadening. I might want a backup generator.
3) Gasoline became an issue. I expected this, but not as fast. I was prepared, but need more storage capacity for longer outages.
4) My chain saw was small, but the trees that came down were much larger. I need a larger chain saw.
5) Water and food were okay, but I want to add to water storage capacity and want to expand long term stored food supply.
6) Looting was not a problem in my area, but was a problem in areas that were supposed to be evacuated. An order to evacuate is a starting bell for looting.
7) If you are going to evacuate, do it ahead of, or immediately upon an order to evacuate. Transportation will be problematic later.
8) More reading material is needed to entertain myself while waiting out the weather.
9) My neighbors have not given any thought to prepping.
10) All existing plans and preps should be reviewed in light of this experience.

[hunter63]

No further damage reported from the snowstorm last night. We do have a couple inches on the ground which is not normal for this time of year and is likely to slow down the repair crews.

As someone who was affected, but not in the severest hit area, here are my lessons learned:

1) The probability of outages of any particular length of time is higher than I previously thought. After 12 years in my current home the longest previous outage I had suffered was 3 days. This one was 8 days.
2) The generator was wonderful. I need more oil and filters for interim servicing and sound deadening. I might want a backup generator.
3) Gasoline became an issue. I expected this, but not as fast. I was prepared, but need more storage capacity for longer outages.
4) My chain saw was small, but the trees that came down were much larger. I need a larger chain saw.
5) Water and food were okay, but I want to add to water storage capacity and want to expand long term stored food supply.
6) Looting was not a problem in my area, but was a problem in areas that were supposed to be evacuated. An order to evacuate is a starting bell for looting.
7) If you are going to evacuate, do it ahead of, or immediately upon an order to evacuate. Transportation will be problematic later.
8) More reading material is needed to entertain myself while waiting out the weather.
9) My neighbors have not given any thought to prepping.
10) All existing plans and preps should be reviewed in light of this experience.

Excellent summation.....and wise words.....From th reals world.
Thanks for the up date.
Number 9), Do you think that they have changed their mind set at all?

[crashdive123]

Nice evaluation Geek.

[Wildthang]

No further damage reported from the snowstorm last night. We do have a couple inches on the ground which is not normal for this time of year and is likely to slow down the repair crews.

As someone who was affected, but not in the severest hit area, here are my lessons learned:

1) The probability of outages of any particular length of time is higher than I previously thought. After 12 years in my current home the longest previous outage I had suffered was 3 days. This one was 8 days.
2) The generator was wonderful. I need more oil and filters for interim servicing and sound deadening. I might want a backup generator.
3) Gasoline became an issue. I expected this, but not as fast. I was prepared, but need more storage capacity for longer outages.
4) My chain saw was small, but the trees that came down were much larger. I need a larger chain saw.
5) Water and food were okay, but I want to add to water storage capacity and want to expand long term stored food supply.
6) Looting was not a problem in my area, but was a problem in areas that were supposed to be evacuated. An order to evacuate is a starting bell for looting.
7) If you are going to evacuate, do it ahead of, or immediately upon an order to evacuate. Transportation will be problematic later.
8) More reading material is needed to entertain myself while waiting out the weather.
9) My neighbors have not given any thought to prepping.
10) All existing plans and preps should be reviewed in light of this experience.

Great summary Geek! A lot of people could benefit from your experience if they would only pay attention. It sounds like you were prepared better than the average person and it payed off!

[Geek]

Excellent summation.....and wise words.....From th reals world.
Thanks for the up date.
Number 9), Do you think that they have changed their mind set at all?

Too soon to tell. There is a lot of interest in generators at least. The gasoline situation is not over, so it is too soon to tell on that. Hard to say about any other preps. If people start to carry a week's food where they previously had none, I'd say that is progress.

[Geek]

Great summary Geek! A lot of people could benefit from your experience if they would only pay attention. It sounds like you were prepared better than the average person and it payed off!

I did prepare better than others. I guess one other lesson is that less than perfect preparation is better than no preparation.

[Faiaoga]

While I do not live on the East Coast, or eve in the Continental United States, I have lived through 10 or so hurricanes (typhoons). Living in the Pacific Islands, people come to expect the storms and retain a community and social structure where families and neighbors help one another and allow for relatively fast recovery. People in the villages and small towns also have tools and basic skills that allow them to prepare their homes for the storm and to make repairs afterwards. People who are not completely dependent upon electric power and automobiles will also surive a storm in better shape than people liviing in an urban, highrise environment. After living in a Samoan village while in the Peace Corps and then in other areas of the Pacific while employed as a teacher, I know I feel far more comfortable in the village during a typhoon than I would feel in a highrise apartment in any city. Now, on Guam, I live in an urban area but stay in a ground floor apartment where I know some neighbors and can walk to most places I need to go to.

I have also learned to stockpile food and water, have a battery-operated radio and store kerosene for lanterns and a stove. Some basic preparation should always be done.
Faiaoga

[Geek]

While I do not live on the East Coast, or eve in the Continental United States, I have lived through 10 or so hurricanes (typhoons). Living in the Pacific Islands, people come to expect the storms and retain a community and social structure where families and neighbors help one another and allow for relatively fast recovery. People in the villages and small towns also have tools and basic skills that allow them to prepare their homes for the storm and to make repairs afterwards. People who are not completely dependent upon electric power and automobiles will also surive a storm in better shape than people liviing in an urban, highrise environment. After living in a Samoan village while in the Peace Corps and then in other areas of the Pacific while employed as a teacher, I know I feel far more comfortable in the village during a typhoon than I would feel in a highrise apartment in any city. Now, on Guam, I live in an urban area but stay in a ground floor apartment where I know some neighbors and can walk to most places I need to go to.

I have also learned to stockpile food and water, have a battery-operated radio and store kerosene for lanterns and a stove. Some basic preparation should always be done.
Faiaoga

High rise structures have both advantages and disadvantages in a hurricane. The structures are built to standards that make them hard to knock down and windows harder to break. However, they need electricity for even the simplest functions such as elevators. More importantly, the region hit by Sandy is one with 50 million people. There is no way to move that many people. The vast bulk of them are merely inconvenienced by the loss of power. Prepping for a few days is enough to to make the situation survivable.

What made Sandy unusual is that it hit such a large region and overwhelmed the ability to recover electrical service, which implied loss of further commodities like gasoline. Again this is not a big deal if you gas up your car in advance and possibly fill a few gas cans. I am not in the hardest hit area, but the gasoline situation is still not back to normal and certain roads are not passable. Some unfortunates will be without power for 2 full weeks. Along the shore, which is a huge tourist area, the recovery will take at least a year.

Prior to last year, recovery from hurricanes in this area was pretty fast. Power would be back in hours to a couple days and roads clear within 24 hours of the end of the storm. Last year we had two storms that were outside that norm and Sandy vastly exceeded either of those. Sandy was not a routine event.

[Reno81]

U know batch made a good point with the gravity toilet thing,another thing is before people are wizzing and crapin in the hallways how bout lining ur empty toilet,abucket,big pot or pan,trash can,with a few garbage bags as to contain this waste until u can get rid of it. Or if u have a balcony or window keep it out there.also if people have the means to collect any or as much rain or snow water they can to help the crap in the crapper toget past the trap.also if u choose to stay instead of evac. ! All i got to say is u better b able to take care of urself and ur own and not expect superman to come rescue u! If u were able to evac. And u didnt,well thats on u bec. All the people who didnt or wernt able to leave are the ones who should get help.ok in done!

[Sourdough]

Question: Any of you running generators have people come by and ask if they could run an extention cord to your generator.......????

[Geek]

Question: Any of you running generators have people come by and ask if they could run an extention cord to your generator.......????
I was expecting that, but we got one guy who wanted to know if we had Internet access. That was out because the cable company did not have power. We offered the opportunity to charge devices, but he was only interested in the Internet access.

Hard to say what would occur if it got colder.

[hunter63]

In 2008 there was a 100 year flood out here in the Kickapoo river valley....many small towns were flooded.
After that,was cleaned up, the general feeling was, "Well, that won't happen again for a another 100 years, so we are good."

So 2009, was another 100 years flood, that was actually worst than 2008....but was a slow flood, where 2008 was a flash flood 12" rain in 3-4 hours....lots of damage forn stuff washing away....where 2009 just had higher water.

Town is now in the process of moving up the hill....with a lot of government BS and money.

So in light of that, it occurs to me that as no one had ever seen anything like sandy and such....I thinking the feeling for a lot of people will be,"Glad that over...now we don't have to worry about that again".

I'm guessing that a lot of those effected by Sandy are gonna feel the same way.

[Geek]

In 2008 there was a 100 year flood out here in the Kickapoo river valley....many small towns were flooded.
After that,was cleaned up, the general feeling was, "Well, that won't happen again for a another 100 years, so we are good."

So 2009, was another 100 years flood, that was actually worst than 2008....but was a slow flood, where 2008 was a flash flood 12" rain in 3-4 hours....lots of damage forn stuff washing away....where 2009 just had higher water.

Town is now in the process of moving up the hill....with a lot of government BS and money.

So in light of that, it occurs to me that as no one had ever seen anything like sandy and such....I thinking the feeling for a lot of people will be,"Glad that over...now we don't have to worry about that again".

I'm guessing that a lot of those effected by Sandy are gonna feel the same way.

In 1999 we were hit with Hurricane Floyd which did the same downed trees, blocked roads, power outage dynamic, but power was restored rather quickly. Last year we were hit with Hurricane Irene, a smaller storm, and the resotration of power was much slower. My reaction was that the capability to restore power had degraded and was likely to continue to deteriorate. That's what prompted me to buy the generator. This year Sandy hit and it was a much worse storm and it revealed what I suspected, the the ability to restore power can be overwhelmed resulting in long periods of outage.

I think having these events both last year and this year will cause some people, not all, to sense a pattern and prep to the level of being able to deal with an outage of a few weeks. If someone has not prepped at all, this will be a huge jump. Unfortunately, not eveyone will connect the dots, and others are going to be busy repairing damage and dealing with other immediate priorities. I'll be happy to see more generators getting installed as I would expect those same folks to stock some food and gasoline.

[Wise Old Owl]

Depending on who you talk to NY is either devastated or just in an inconvenience (as a total area). The thing is, that no matter how much damage there is, we have places to go for shelter and food. It took less than a day to start getting utilities back up and running so there are areas with power and most places in those areas are opening doors for charging cell phones or just to have a warm place to hang out.

People talk about how strong the storm was, but the reality is it didn't really devastate because people are on their roofs still looking for help and food. I was talking to a friend and really, individuals were devastated. They lost their homes and some lost family members and my heart goes out to them. But a lot of people who are talking about devastation are talking about some lost physical possessions and power out for a few days to a couple of weeks. I will never accept that as devastation in the wake of Katrina, the Japan earthquake/tsunami, and a bunch of other natural disasters that have happened since 2000 that truly destroyed areas and cost hundreds of thousands of lives and still haven't recovered.

According to various sources Sandy was the second strongest hurricane on record. No matter what the pressure was equal to, the winds were only cat 1. You want devastation, the inevitable cat 3 or higher that pounds the tri-state area will be what everyone is saying this is.

I am sure this is going to upset people - but I listen to NPR a lot and they reported last week something like this


A quarter of Japan’s tsunami relief fund has been spent on unrelated projects, including renovating a government office and subsiding whaling. The revelations have ignited outcry as more than 320,000 tsunami victims remain displaced.

"The expenditure was identified after the publication of an independent government-backed audit into the allocation of the $150 billion relief fund, created after the earthquake and tsunami of March last year.

The fund intended not only to restore damaged cities, but to “reinvigorate Japan”, stimulating local economies into recover. Nevertheless, the relevance of some of the funded projects have been raising eyebrows.

Among the expenses listed are $30 million dollars to protect Japan’s yearly whale hunt from environmental activists, $380,000 to promote Tokyo Sky Tree, the world’s tallest free-standing broadcast tower, free training for fighter pilots and a subsidy for a contact-lens factory located nowhere near the site of the disaster-hit coast.

“Taxpayers accepted tax hikes because they thought the money would go to disaster victims and the disaster victims were grateful,” said Kuniko Tanioka, who is a member of a group that studied the expenses in the Upper House of the Diet, Japan’s parliament."


Yup we gave the Japanese - 150 billion and not one $1 went to the rebuilding of the towns lost on the coast - we started up the whale hunt again.... Can't blame that on Bush.... Shuffles feet ... "I apologize for that."

Now what would happen if NJ and NY got 1.5 BILLION?

[Geek]

There are significant areas along the shore that are devastated in both NY and NJ. A much wider area was without power for a highly variable amount of time. I was without power for 8 days, but also had a gnerator. Lots of roads were blocked with down trees. Not everyone has power yet. Gas rationing is still underway. I'd say that in this case a significant number of people have really suffered, and a much larger number of people are inconvenienced.

According to the news, NY alone is seeking $30 bllion from the Federal Government. This is supposed to cover everything from infrastructure repair to overtime pay for first responders. I haven't heard a number for NJ yet.

[NavyVet_77]

Now what would happen if NJ and NY got 1.5 BILLION?[/B]

THey'd probably just give it to FEMA, which will go towards..... umm... Im not sure?
Maybe more Registration Centers that close? http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/staten_island/it_bad_sign_for_staten_GDyn7duXSlTbTxAkrjIHBM

[Geek]

THey'd probably just give it to FEMA, which will go towards..... umm... Im not sure?
Maybe more Registration Centers that close? http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/staten_island/it_bad_sign_for_staten_GDyn7duXSlTbTxAkrjIHBM

FEMA would likely be the source, not the destination.

One of the amusing things I was reading over the weekend was about people who have lost their homes who have been housed in tents by FEMA. Tents are cold around here this time of year, particularly for someone who is not dressed for the weather. However, the interesting thing was that some of the folks in those camps were saying they felt like prisoners due to all the security. They had to show a badge just to go to the bathroom. One quote went so far as to call the tent city a "concentration camp".

Maybe the crowd that is afraid of FEMA camps isn't completely nuts. You'd think they had the brains to avoid that sort of press.

[Wildthang]

I really feel for most of the people on the east coast, but it is amazing at all of the whining some of them are doing and have not taken any part of the blame for being totally unprepared. It's like " we want the power back on now " and they dont understand how long it takes to repair a ramsacked electrical grid nor do they care!
Some people these days just kill me! And those are the same people that think prepers are crazy!

[Geek]

[QUOTE=Wildthang;369301]I really feel for most of the people on the east coast, but it is amazing at all of the whining some of them are doing and have not taken any part of the blame for being totally unprepared. It's like " we want the power back on now " and they dont understand how long it takes to repair a ramsacked electrical grid nor do they care!
Some people these days just kill me! And those are the same people that think prepers are crazy!/QUOTE]

That's all in NY. We don't have any of that in NJ. :-)

[Geek]

[QUOTE=Wildthang;369301]I really feel for most of the people on the east coast, but it is amazing at all of the whining some of them are doing and have not taken any part of the blame for being totally unprepared. It's like " we want the power back on now " and they dont understand how long it takes to repair a ramsacked electrical grid nor do they care!
Some people these days just kill me! And those are the same people that think prepers are crazy!/QUOTE]

That's all in NY. We don't have any of that in NJ. :-)

[Seniorman]

Anytime politicians and gigantic government bureaucracies become involved in doling out millions and billions of the taxpayers' dollars "all for the public good," administered by faceless, mindless, brain numbed, unelected government bureaucrats, it very rapidly becomes FUBAR.

Doesn't matter which country it is, either. Politicians and govt. bureaucrats are the same, worldwide.

S.M.

[Echo2]

I really feel for most of the people on the east coast, but it is amazing at all of the whining some of them are doing and have not taken any part of the blame for being totally unprepared. It's like " we want the power back on now " and they dont understand how long it takes to repair a ramsacked electrical grid nor do they care!
Some people these days just kill me! And those are the same people that think prepers are crazy!

BAHAHAHAHA.....That sir.....is the truth.

Doesn't it make you want to say "OK....Joe...throw the switch".....and just watch the sparks.

wish I had a truck load of My Buddy heaters with one tank......and a follow up truck with $20 per unit 1 lb bottles....:)

If God came down here and smacked me on the rear and said you have one wish....it wouldn't be for $$$....it wouldn't be for fame....it would be that idiocy would be painful....half of them their head would just explode.

[BENESSE]

Being prepared helps, but it doesn't immunize you from loss of property and heartache of having to carry on and try to put your life back together when you loose everything...and you're just one of multitudes in the same boat.

So let's cut people some slack and let them whine. We've all been whining about more trivial matters. :sneaky2:

[Echo2]

Having been through a house fire....I know loss....but whining about things that are being worked on as fast as they can.....is silly.

You would think that had never dealt with bureaucracy before.

These are the folks that will be waiting for someone else to fix their in a real emergency.

Once again.....8 days heads up....what would have folks here have done in that 8 days?

[BENESSE]

Like I said...
People whine on here about all kinds of mind-numbing inconsequential matters (let me not enumerate) and no one tells them they're being silly. Sometimes qvetching makes you feel better...nothing wrong with that. If you can't help, sympathising is the next best thing.

[hunter63]

Well, dumping on them from afar and a bunch of "I told you so's" from some one that's not there, doesn't do anyone any good, So I'm not gonna do it. Nor whine about my trivial mishaps.

[Geek]

Having been through a house fire....I know loss....but whining about things that are being worked on as fast as they can.....is silly.

You would think that had never dealt with bureaucracy before.

These are the folks that will be waiting for someone else to fix their in a real emergency.

Once again.....8 days heads up....what would have folks here have done in that 8 days?

I'll tell you what I did immediately prior to the storm. (The generaator was already in place.)

Food shopping. (We didn't need to tap long term storage.)
Fill water containers.
Fill car gas tanks and gas cans.
Purchase fresh batteries, extra flash lights, and a chain saw.
Brought stuff inside from deck.

Any of those steps could have been done by anyone else who was smart enough to remember the two storms we had last year. However, if you lived at the shore and your house was destroyed, none of that would have done much good. Assuming your house was okay, those steps would have reduced the hassle afterward.

[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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Ð�рти (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/458550)Ñ�ерт (http://oceanmining.ru/shop/570389)цвет (http://octupolephonon.ru/shop/571910)Горо (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/150541)Tenk (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/1252767)Ð*ома (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/235709)ЛитÐ* (http://onesticket.ru/shop/583579)заве (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/584905)Кали (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/689104)ЛитÐ* (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/688508)Башк (http://palmberry.ru/shop/842428)Фоли (http://papercoating.ru/shop/681156)XVII (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/1047643)Киле (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1173841)Otto (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1176106)
Bruc (http://partfamily.ru/shop/1298946)Явор (http://partialmajorant.ru/shop/1178226)СамÑ� (http://quadrupleworm.ru/shop/1544708)(193 (http://qualitybooster.ru/shop/1544876)Mens (http://quasimoney.ru/shop/599136)Hein (http://quenchedspark.ru/shop/912938)Ð�Ñ�та (http://quodrecuperet.ru/shop/1081323)Ð�ики (http://rabbetledge.ru/shop/1415317)Liya (http://radialchaser.ru/shop/1421198)Curr (http://radiationestimator.ru/shop/515744)That (http://railwaybridge.ru/shop/782614)рабо (http://randomcoloration.ru/shop/915543)разд (http://rapidgrowth.ru/shop/1078128)Ð*ежи (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru/shop/1401057)Бори (http://reachthroughregion.ru/shop/1469145)
Iron (http://readingmagnifier.ru/shop/517912)бок� (http://rearchain.ru/shop/879270)Меле (http://recessioncone.ru/shop/880238)Sput (http://recordedassignment.ru/shop/1653740)Hami (http://rectifiersubstation.ru/shop/1659790)�на� (http://redemptionvalue.ru/shop/1667348)Глеб (http://reducingflange.ru/shop/1689574)Шмар (http://referenceantigen.ru/shop/1695901)Кузн (http://regeneratedprotein.ru/shop/1773223)Coll (http://reinvestmentplan.ru/shop/1776733)Кули (http://safedrilling.ru/shop/1822474)Мизи (http://sagprofile.ru/shop/1823448)Горе (http://salestypelease.ru/shop/1855660)Шоры (http://samplinginterval.ru/shop/1881450)Corm (http://satellitehydrology.ru/shop/1918279)
Калм (http://scarcecommodity.ru/shop/1929900)авто (http://scrapermat.ru/shop/1942827)запи (http://screwingunit.ru/shop/1957911)матр (http://seawaterpump.ru/shop/1969143)Ильи (http://secondaryblock.ru/shop/1461839)зани (http://secularclergy.ru/shop/1495679)Sist (http://seismicefficiency.ru/shop/1555972)авто (http://selectivediffuser.ru/shop/418166)орга (http://semiasphalticflux.ru/shop/1677039)Межд (http://semifinishmachining.ru/shop/1694645)Scou (http://spicetrade.ru/spice_zakaz/1519)Scou (http://spysale.ru/spy_zakaz/1519)Scou (http://stungun.ru/stun_zakaz/1519)Геор (http://tacticaldiameter.ru/shop/487160)Davi (http://tailstockcenter.ru/shop/1760286)
Дени (http://tamecurve.ru/shop/1770708)Rebe (http://tapecorrection.ru/shop/1775793)Лева (http://tappingchuck.ru/shop/491290)Otfr (http://taskreasoning.ru/shop/504342)Влод (http://technicalgrade.ru/shop/1854974)ХруÑ� (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru/shop/1901643)Смир (http://telescopicdamper.ru/shop/1950422)клаÑ� (http://temperateclimate.ru/shop/862935)Ð*ыжк (http://temperedmeasure.ru/shop/921146)иÑ�то (http://tenementbuilding.ru/shop/985390)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)раÑ�Ñ� (http://ultramaficrock.ru/shop/985863)wwwn (http://ultraviolettesting.ru/shop/487774)

[yellowcab]

инфо (http://audiobookkeeper.ru)инфо (http://cottagenet.ru)инфо (http://eyesvision.ru)инфо (http://eyesvisions.com)инфо (http://factoringfee.ru)инфо (http://filmzones.ru)инфо (http://gadwall.ru)инфо (http://gaffertape.ru)инфо (http://gageboard.ru)инфо (http://gagrule.ru)инфо (http://gallduct.ru)инфо (http://galvanometric.ru)инфо (http://gangforeman.ru)инфо (http://gangwayplatform.ru)инфо (http://garbagechute.ru)
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инфо (http://habeascorpus.ru)инфо (http://habituate.ru)инфо (http://hackedbolt.ru)инфо (http://hackworker.ru)инфо (http://hadronicannihilation.ru)инфо (http://haemagglutinin.ru)инфо (http://hailsquall.ru)инфо (http://hairysphere.ru)инфо (http://halforderfringe.ru)инфо (http://halfsiblings.ru)инфо (http://hallofresidence.ru)инфо (http://haltstate.ru)инфо (http://handcoding.ru)инфо (http://handportedhead.ru)инфо (http://handradar.ru)
инфо (http://handsfreetelephone.ru)инфо (http://hangonpart.ru)инфо (http://haphazardwinding.ru)инфо (http://hardalloyteeth.ru)инфо (http://hardasiron.ru)инфо (http://hardenedconcrete.ru)инфо (http://harmonicinteraction.ru)инфо (http://hartlaubgoose.ru)инфо (http://hatchholddown.ru)инфо (http://haveafinetime.ru)инфо (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru)инфо (http://headregulator.ru)инфо (http://heartofgold.ru)инфо (http://heatageingresistance.ru)инфо (http://heatinggas.ru)
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[yellowcab]

инфо (http://laterevent.ru)инфо (http://latrinesergeant.ru)инфо (http://layabout.ru)инфо (http://leadcoating.ru)инфо (http://leadingfirm.ru)инфо (http://learningcurve.ru)инфо (http://leaveword.ru)инфо (http://machinesensible.ru)инфо (http://magneticequator.ru)инфо (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru)инфо (http://mailinghouse.ru)инфо (http://majorconcern.ru)инфо (http://mammasdarling.ru)инфо (http://managerialstaff.ru)инфо (http://manipulatinghand.ru)
инфо (http://manualchoke.ru)инфо (http://medinfobooks.ru)инфо (http://mp3lists.ru)инфо (http://nameresolution.ru)инфо (http://naphtheneseries.ru)инфо (http://narrowmouthed.ru)инфо (http://nationalcensus.ru)инфо (http://naturalfunctor.ru)инфо (http://navelseed.ru)инфо (http://neatplaster.ru)инфо (http://necroticcaries.ru)инфо (http://negativefibration.ru)инфо (http://neighbouringrights.ru)инфо (http://objectmodule.ru)инфо (http://observationballoon.ru)
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инфо (http://partfamily.ru)инфо (http://partialmajorant.ru)инфо (http://quadrupleworm.ru)инфо (http://qualitybooster.ru)инфо (http://quasimoney.ru)инфо (http://quenchedspark.ru)инфо (http://quodrecuperet.ru)инфо (http://rabbetledge.ru)инфо (http://radialchaser.ru)инфо (http://radiationestimator.ru)инфо (http://railwaybridge.ru)инфо (http://randomcoloration.ru)инфо (http://rapidgrowth.ru)инфо (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru)инфо (http://reachthroughregion.ru)
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[yellowcab]

йога (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/9205)145.4 (http://cottagenet.ru/plan/721)опто (http://eyesvision.ru/lectures/3)poin (http://eyesvisions.com/physics/39)Дени (http://factoringfee.ru/t/1370638)John (http://filmzones.ru/t/1312400)Моро (http://gadwall.ru/t/1306530)Lasc (http://gaffertape.ru/t/1104803)Шевч (http://gageboard.ru/t/1099950)Coul (http://gagrule.ru/t/1037689)Robe (http://gallduct.ru/t/1215029)Serg (http://galvanometric.ru/t/1554417)Slei (http://gangforeman.ru/t/1510168)Чиби (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/1701113)Укра (http://garbagechute.ru/t/1439036)
Mart (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/1256548)акад (http://gascautery.ru/t/1373564)Джеф (http://gashbucket.ru/t/1353411)XVII (http://gasreturn.ru/t/1345785)XVII (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/1342389)апре (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/1496778)фарф (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/1686239)Marg (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/1247593)Фаво (http://geartreating.ru/t/1240247)Гром (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/1248671)Кочк (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/1360288)Мерз (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/1459337)Brot (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/1531688)Та�а (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/1342906)Фили (http://getthebounce.ru/t/945471)
Бонд (http://habeascorpus.ru/t/1344774)Ко�т (http://habituate.ru/t/1308295)прак (http://hackedbolt.ru/t/1241353)�екр (http://hackworker.ru/t/1459082)о�об (http://hadronicannihilation.ru/t/1226355)Черн (http://haemagglutinin.ru/t/1245596)Соде (http://hailsquall.ru/t/1243201)Мацк (http://hairysphere.ru/t/1248512)�ндр (http://halforderfringe.ru/t/1345269)Поло (http://halfsiblings.ru/t/1378250)Соде (http://hallofresidence.ru/t/1246086)офиц (http://haltstate.ru/t/1249543)Полу (http://handcoding.ru/t/1313719)wwwr (http://handportedhead.ru/t/1688831)Шл�п (http://handradar.ru/t/1241311)
Ð�МБи (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/1308209)Robe (http://hangonpart.ru/t/1232297)Федо (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/1225039)Дмит (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/841803)Ð*оÑ�Ñ� (http://hardasiron.ru/t/920882)Хент (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/1050244)Тарт (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/1252560)Капу (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/1228428)очер (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/1350855)MODO (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/1547853)Sela (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/1547132)Modo (http://headregulator.ru/t/1547900)курÑ� (http://heartofgold.ru/t/1644290)What (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/1283921)ELEG (http://heatinggas.ru/t/1547265)
Mary (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/1238054)Papu (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/832145)Ланщ (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/1049156)FnIV (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/1577835)Иллю (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/1013151)Ероф (http://jobstress.ru/t/1249327)Arbo (http://jogformation.ru/t/1241505)publ (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/1247639)глав (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/1226667)Федо (http://journallubricator.ru/t/1376402)Чу�н (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/1226864)�к�п (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/1240755)Blac (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/1182739)Fall (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/1189136)Vend (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/1189320)
Circ (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/1181991)Воро (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/883545)Бела (http://kentishglory.ru/t/1197338)Викт (http://kerbweight.ru/t/1225095)учащ (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/1208337)Мага (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/854162)Ма�к (http://keyserum.ru/t/1240527)MORG (http://kickplate.ru/t/1550029)Бета (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/1382748)�нгл (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/1197987)Шишо (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/1559250)Микк (http://kinozones.ru/film/9205)пе�е (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/1246214)XVII (http://kneejoint.ru/t/1345327)Grey (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/1711487)
Ябло (http://knockonatom.ru/t/1343810)Стра (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/1346283)Zone (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/1549144)Жако (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/1387066)Zone (http://laborracket.ru/t/1549787)Moza (http://labourearnings.ru/t/1553352)Zone (http://labourleasing.ru/t/1549100)Zone (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/1191443)Шипе (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/1250313)Чару (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/1245000)МоиÑ� (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/1369948)Ð*хер (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/1230988)Zone (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/1192817)Zone (http://laggingload.ru/t/1191103)Zone (http://laissezaller.ru/t/1192794)
Zone (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/1192880)иллю (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/1195063)жанр (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/1578338)Горб (http://lamphouse.ru/t/1240229)Zone (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/1185900)Zone (http://lancingdie.ru/t/1187327)Zone (http://landingdoor.ru/t/1189871)Кузн (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/1637430)�нан (http://landreform.ru/t/1219888)Zone (http://landuseratio.ru/t/1186126)Корч (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/1285360)трав (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1161197)рука (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/1162242)ме�� (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/605)имен (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/590662)

[yellowcab]

Shag (http://laterevent.ru/shop/1178501)Прои (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/99028)Hotp (http://layabout.ru/shop/452666)ЯÑ�ке (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/183416)Дуга (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/105823)Educ (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/465394)Tolo (http://leaveword.ru/shop/465422)Ð�рти (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/195081)Ð*азм (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/574939)Renz (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/196160)выÑ�о (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/268384)Ð*оÑ�Ñ� (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/447507)SQui (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/468125)HEYN (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/160259)SKOD (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/613965)
Диам (http://manualchoke.ru/shop/598516)долг (http://medinfobooks.ru/book/2489)Regg (http://mp3lists.ru/item/9205)Vali (http://nameresolution.ru/shop/1041751)Стах (http://naphtheneseries.ru/shop/105133)пазл (http://narrowmouthed.ru/shop/461393)поро (http://nationalcensus.ru/shop/1026276)укра (http://naturalfunctor.ru/shop/486715)�тре (http://navelseed.ru/shop/101332)Hell (http://neatplaster.ru/shop/455053)Wind (http://necroticcaries.ru/shop/176409)Wind (http://negativefibration.ru/shop/450666)Mist (http://neighbouringrights.ru/shop/577233)Jerr (http://objectmodule.ru/shop/109275)Moul (http://observationballoon.ru/shop/96253)
Vale (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/98695)Ñ�ерт (http://oceanmining.ru/shop/397751)Инди (http://octupolephonon.ru)XXVI (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/148492)игра (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/201279)Триф (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/148934)ЛитÐ* (http://onesticket.ru/shop/579341)MPEG (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/581324)ЛитÐ* (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/683631)ЛитÐ* (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/683003)Ð�ндр (http://palmberry.ru/shop/578347)ЛитÐ* (http://papercoating.ru/shop/583079)ЛитÐ* (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/688507)Цвет (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1167849)Бара (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1167878)
Fred (http://partfamily.ru/shop/1166955)Иллю (http://partialmajorant.ru/shop/1171850)Фатх (http://quadrupleworm.ru/shop/1539971)хоз� (http://qualitybooster.ru/shop/1383548)�еза (http://quasimoney.ru/shop/595261)XVII (http://quenchedspark.ru/shop/597076)Дpeй (http://quodrecuperet.ru/shop/1071566)реда (http://rabbetledge.ru/shop/1073320)МПче (http://radialchaser.ru/shop/322076)Чел� (http://radiationestimator.ru/shop/509418)Pung (http://railwaybridge.ru/shop/517616)Many (http://randomcoloration.ru/shop/515206)Шевч (http://rapidgrowth.ru/shop/902996)Come (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru/shop/1078749)�ифо (http://reachthroughregion.ru/shop/318197)
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[yellowcab]

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radialchaser.ru (http://radialchaser.ru)quadrupleworm.ru (http://quadrupleworm.ru)lactogenicfactor.ru (http://lactogenicfactor.ru)haltstate.ru (http://haltstate.ru)rabbetledge.ru (http://rabbetledge.ru)latrinesergeant.ru (http://latrinesergeant.ru)juicecatcher.ru (http://juicecatcher.ru)lacrimalpoint.ru (http://lacrimalpoint.ru)jogformation.ru (http://jogformation.ru)magneticequator.ru (http://magneticequator.ru)haemagglutinin.ru (http://haemagglutinin.ru)sagprofile.ru (http://sagprofile.ru)hatchholddown.ru (http://hatchholddown.ru)samplinginterval.ru (http://samplinginterval.ru)galvanometric.ru (http://galvanometric.ru)
seawaterpump.ru (http://seawaterpump.ru)laserpulse.ru (http://laserpulse.ru)spysale.ru (http://spysale.ru)rattlesnakemaster.ru (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru)labourleasing.ru (http://labourleasing.ru)safedrilling.ru (http://safedrilling.ru)screwingunit.ru (http://screwingunit.ru)gaffertape.ru (http://gaffertape.ru)oceanmining.ru (http://oceanmining.ru)nationalcensus.ru (http://nationalcensus.ru)keyserum.ru (http://keyserum.ru)laterevent.ru (http://laterevent.ru)journallubricator.ru (http://journallubricator.ru)gageboard.ru (http://gageboard.ru)haveafinetime.ru (http://haveafinetime.ru)
tapecorrection.ru (http://tapecorrection.ru)railwaybridge.ru (http://railwaybridge.ru)secondaryblock.ru (http://secondaryblock.ru)layabout.ru (http://layabout.ru)landreform.ru (http://landreform.ru)taskreasoning.ru (http://taskreasoning.ru)nameresolution.ru (http://nameresolution.ru)radiationestimator.ru (http://radiationestimator.ru)knowledgestate.ru (http://knowledgestate.ru)justiciablehomicide.ru (http://justiciablehomicide.ru)halforderfringe.ru (http://halforderfringe.ru)tappingchuck.ru (http://tappingchuck.ru)gangforeman.ru (http://gangforeman.ru)manualchoke.ru (http://manualchoke.ru)knockonatom.ru (http://knockonatom.ru)
gagrule.ru (http://gagrule.ru)ladletreatediron.ru (http://ladletreatediron.ru)gatedsweep.ru (http://gatedsweep.ru)geophysicalprobe.ru (http://geophysicalprobe.ru)languagelaboratory.ru (http://languagelaboratory.ru)keymanassurance.ru (http://keymanassurance.ru)qualitybooster.ru (http://qualitybooster.ru)necroticcaries.ru (http://necroticcaries.ru)rearchain.ru (http://rearchain.ru)largeheart.ru (http://largeheart.ru)handcoding.ru (http://handcoding.ru)hardenedconcrete.ru (http://hardenedconcrete.ru)gaugemodel.ru (http://gaugemodel.ru)rapidgrowth.ru (http://rapidgrowth.ru)lammasshoot.ru (http://lammasshoot.ru)
kentishglory.ru (http://kentishglory.ru)gallduct.ru (http://gallduct.ru)medinfobooks.ru (http://medinfobooks.ru)harmonicinteraction.ru (http://harmonicinteraction.ru)majorconcern.ru (http://majorconcern.ru)handradar.ru (http://handradar.ru)hardalloyteeth.ru (http://hardalloyteeth.ru)jibtypecrane.ru (http://jibtypecrane.ru)laggingload.ru (http://laggingload.ru)offsetholder.ru (http://offsetholder.ru)kneejoint.ru (http://kneejoint.ru)scrapermat.ru (http://scrapermat.ru)habituate.ru (http://habituate.ru)jointsealingmaterial.ru (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru)octupolephonon.ru (http://octupolephonon.ru)

[yellowcab]

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filmzones.ru (http://filmzones.ru)naphtheneseries.ru (http://naphtheneseries.ru)gangwayplatform.ru (http://gangwayplatform.ru)temperateclimate.ru (http://temperateclimate.ru)gascautery.ru (http://gascautery.ru)randomcoloration.ru (http://randomcoloration.ru)leadcoating.ru (http://leadcoating.ru)managerialstaff.ru (http://managerialstaff.ru)lambdatransition.ru (http://lambdatransition.ru)halfsiblings.ru (http://halfsiblings.ru)navelseed.ru (http://navelseed.ru)narrowmouthed.ru (http://narrowmouthed.ru)audiobookkeeper.ru (http://audiobookkeeper.ru)machinesensible.ru (http://machinesensible.ru)neighbouringrights.ru (http://neighbouringrights.ru)
tenementbuilding.ru (http://tenementbuilding.ru)quodrecuperet.ru (http://quodrecuperet.ru)recordedassignment.ru (http://recordedassignment.ru)leaveword.ru (http://leaveword.ru)partialmajorant.ru (http://partialmajorant.ru)reinvestmentplan.ru (http://reinvestmentplan.ru)recessioncone.ru (http://recessioncone.ru)parasolmonoplane.ru (http://parasolmonoplane.ru)laburnumtree.ru (http://laburnumtree.ru)telangiectaticlipoma.ru (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)redemptionvalue.ru (http://redemptionvalue.ru)paraconvexgroup.ru (http://paraconvexgroup.ru)habeascorpus.ru (http://habeascorpus.ru)heatinggas.ru (http://heatinggas.ru)magnetotelluricfield.ru (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru)
generalprovisions.ru (http://generalprovisions.ru)parkingbrake.ru (http://parkingbrake.ru)juxtapositiontwin.ru (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru)hartlaubgoose.ru (http://hartlaubgoose.ru)gadwall.ru (http://gadwall.ru)labourearnings.ru (http://labourearnings.ru)handportedhead.ru (http://handportedhead.ru)hackedbolt.ru (http://hackedbolt.ru)lamphouse.ru (http://lamphouse.ru)stungun.ru (http://stungun.ru)quenchedspark.ru (http://quenchedspark.ru)japanesecedar.ru (http://japanesecedar.ru)hairysphere.ru (http://hairysphere.ru)laserlens.ru (http://laserlens.ru)kilowattsecond.ru (http://kilowattsecond.ru)
technicalgrade.ru (http://technicalgrade.ru)mp3lists.ru (http://mp3lists.ru)tacticaldiameter.ru (http://tacticaldiameter.ru)jacketedwall.ru (http://jacketedwall.ru)ultraviolettesting.ru (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)junctionofchannels.ru (http://junctionofchannels.ru)seismicefficiency.ru (http://seismicefficiency.ru)kickplate.ru (http://kickplate.ru)kinozones.ru (http://kinozones.ru)lacunarycoefficient.ru (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru)palatinebones.ru (http://palatinebones.ru)keepagoodoffing.ru (http://keepagoodoffing.ru)lasercalibration.ru (http://lasercalibration.ru)lancecorporal.ru (http://lancecorporal.ru)jobabandonment.ru (http://jobabandonment.ru)
handsfreetelephone.ru (http://handsfreetelephone.ru)gearpitchdiameter.ru (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru)tailstockcenter.ru (http://tailstockcenter.ru)garbagechute.ru (http://garbagechute.ru)onesticket.ru (http://onesticket.ru)manipulatinghand.ru (http://manipulatinghand.ru)mailinghouse.ru (http://mailinghouse.ru)hackworker.ru (http://hackworker.ru)jointcapsule.ru (http://jointcapsule.ru)palmberry.ru (http://palmberry.ru)spicetrade.ru (http://spicetrade.ru)kingweakfish.ru (http://kingweakfish.ru)regeneratedprotein.ru (http://regeneratedprotein.ru)ultramaficrock.ru (http://ultramaficrock.ru)semifinishmachining.ru (http://semifinishmachining.ru)
headregulator.ru (http://headregulator.ru)landingdoor.ru (http://landingdoor.ru)pagingterminal.ru (http://pagingterminal.ru)hallofresidence.ru (http://hallofresidence.ru)partfamily.ru (http://partfamily.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/index.php?topic=1.0)kondoferromagnet.ru (http://kondoferromagnet.ru)lancingdie.ru (http://lancingdie.ru)reducingflange.ru (http://reducingflange.ru)tamecurve.ru (http://tamecurve.ru)generalizedanalysis.ru (http://generalizedanalysis.ru)kerbweight.ru (http://kerbweight.ru)eyesvisions.com (http://eyesvisions.com)