Making the Journey

[Crabapple Plum]

Today's safety net is one some of us didn't have "way back in the last century." Our daddies, grandpappies, great, great uncles and further ancestors didn't have it either.

Sattelite phones with GPS and solar charger. Get your butt in a jamb, all you have to do is call who you need to call and the feds will be flying over with infra-red looking to extract you. Foreign soil? Call the American Embassy, the Marines are on their way. They love playing with their new gadgets and gizmos and playing the hero.

I bet it even has games on it but I wouldn't know.

I first learned about this handy device 20 years ago when I received a call in the middle of the day:

Hello. I didn't think I would like carrying a phone, now I like it.

Me: Where are you?

I'm still in Idaho, but I'm 5 miles from my pick-up, sitting in a rotted snag kicking grizzly cubs down. (thump, BAWL) Momma Bear hasn't seen me yet. Write these coordinates down, my location, my trucks location. I will beeline back to the truck if and when it's safe. If you don't hear from me by 4:30, call Dave at xxx-xxxx. He will be out of the canyon and they can come pick up my pieces.

Me: You're armed right?

Of course. I don't want to kill them and it's still gonna hurt. Momma or these cubs can easily shove this snag over. Bye, gotta go. (grumble, thump, BAWL)
********************
He called me back at 4 from his truck to let me know Momma Bear got tired of the bawling, slapped the crap out of her kids and took them over the hill. If our kids ever give us grandkids, he has wonderful stories to share while taking them fishing.


Reading the fine print (finally) I see this forum is about ACCIDENTALLY being in the wilderness, not going on purpose. Uhmmmm......some of us go there on purpose. We call it going home. Yeah, Mother Nature only has to win once, but the red light only has to win once, the JBT only has to win once, the suburban thug, Mall Ninja, Woman Driver, trucks on the viaduct, the Shrew Crew........

At some point a boy must become a man. I know of no better way than for him to face himself, learn his strengths, weaknesses, conquer his fears, test his endurance, than by going off into the wilderness by himself for a period of time. He may want to go for a year but he is free to come back at any time. It doesn't matter. What matters is he goes. He will lose the boy and come back a man. It's a tradition in my family, I see the difference in the males who go and those who don't. In becoming a man, I feel this is far safer than joining the military.

I have daughters, 2 of them are adults, 1 teen. There are very few males who qualify as mates, they do not display characteristics of men as we are used to in our family. Those who are qualified are not from contemporary white culture. They are of old traditions, and have made the journey.

I still don't understand why the extreme discouragement to the young men who come here seeking to make the journey. Perhaps some of you have never fully embraced the experience and overcome the fear? I dunno.

Being alone in the wilderness never scared me, it's comforting with all it's noises. Being lost in East L.A. was unsettling. The thought of living in a city or large town is terrifying.

[kyratshooter]

If you are there on purpose you are not surviving, you are camping.

[Crabapple Plum]

Camping is when you take a bunch of crap you don't need.

[BENESSE]

Camping is when you take a bunch of crap you don't need.

As the saying goes around here...it's better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. With with practice one builds experience and ultimately intimate knowledge about what matters to you. Beyond the basics, everyone is different--what's right for me may not be right for you.

[hunter63]

There are a lot of us that made the journey, in small steps, in a orderly fashion, with trial and error, but with a reasonable chance of doing it successfully.......meaning proving them selves and not dieing.

So the wilderness can become a place of recreation, and comfort....or deadly as any other place.....difference being your knowledge and skill....same as the streets of LA.

Would I head out to live in either place with out knowledge and skill...no....not unless I have to.....Would I suggest the journey to anyone else, yes but with thought of what I/ you are doing.

Tough to make a call for someone else that come on like an idiot....so I remain on the side of caution.....That's just me.

[BENESSE]

I still don't understand why the extreme discouragement to the young men who come here seeking to make the journey. Perhaps some of you have never fully embraced the experience and overcome the fear? I dunno.

Most of those who get discoraged are ill prepared, naive about the basics and unwilling to take advice they are supposedly looking for. We don't know anything about them other than what they say and even that becomes suspect once you start reading between the lines. Our role is not that of a parent but a (anonimous) teacher at best. There is a difference.

[BENESSE]

Another thing:
What if their parents are against their harebrained idea of running off into the wilderness (they know their child better than we do!) and we end up encouraging them, saying, yeah, never mind school, never mind college, go become a man and here's the right knife, btw?

[kyratshooter]

What journey?

The journey to intentional death?

Self defeating personality disorder is well known and widespread. It qualifies one for committment to protect one from harm to self or others!

As far as discouragement of the young that stumble in here, If we were their parents and we were forcing them to do what they are sugggesting we would be jailed for abuse.

My Side Of The Mountain was fiction.

If you want to kick around grizzly cubs and brag about it do so elsewhere. Perhaps in one of the forums where they would believe you. One of these kids you are refering too might read your post and think they could get away with it and become a fatality. I doubt that your irresponsibility would cause you any lost sleep but a more mature person would have trouble with such behavior.

[Crabapple Plum]

I didn't kick grizzly cubs. The daddy to my older children did. He was 52 years old at the time. Now I don't know what YOU would do (besides not go into the wilderness because it's too scarey and dangerous) if a couple of grizz babies decided YOU were the new cool play toy besides go up the nearest tree. (which happened to be a rotted snag)

He was one of those "children" who graduated high school back east and didn't stick around for his graduation party. He got on his motorcycle and headed to Montana wilderness for the summer. He cowboyed through U of M for a degree in wildlife biology then never used it as a helicopter logger. Camping is a way of life and we camped all over the world, we also got dropped off in the wilderness just because we like it, with kids. He went logging in Alaska, bought an island, retired and rarely comes back.

I don't consider 18 year olds children. They are old enough to vote and go to war. They are old enough to wander off into the wilderness, turn around and wander back to civilization. Not everybody is a dumbass. Even I survived East L.A. Tiajuana and Chicago. Central America isn't scarey, the barrios or the jungles, ask my daughter, she went when she was 19.

Again, I'm trying to understand why a place called wilderness survival tells young men, "Don't go into the wild, it's too scarey and dangerous for ignorant fools like YOU." Are you a bunch of people who had traumatic near death experiences out camping?

[BENESSE]

Again, I'm trying to understand why a place called wilderness survival tells young men, "Don't go into the wild, it's too scarey and dangerous for ignorant fools like YOU." Are you a bunch of people who had traumatic near death experiences out camping?

Obviously you haven't spent the time reading through some of the "discouriging" advice to understand what was said and why.
We're not debating the relative maturity of 18 yr olds ANYwhere...just some who came here clueless (not bad in itself) and arrogant.

Do you not feel any responsibility about what you say to someone you don't know that could potentially put them in jeopardy?!

[crashdive123]

Again, I'm trying to understand why a place called wilderness survival tells young men, "Don't go into the wild, it's too scarey and dangerous for ignorant fools like YOU." Are you a bunch of people who had traumatic near death experiences out camping?

So let's look at a few of the recent young men that wanted to go off in the wilderness and came here asking for advice.....

-- a young man (18) with an "abundant knowledge of survival skills" thinks heading off to Siberia for a year so that he won't run into people is a sound plan. Few encouraged that behavior.

-- another young man (25) seeks to hike the entire AT. He received sound advice and encouragement.

-- another young man (16) wants to buy land in Maine and live in a log cabin. He says his parents are onboard. He has received the encouragement that a minor should receive.

some others

-- an 18 year old fed up with society wants to know how to squat on land and harvest game. That is not the sort of behavior that I (or many others) will encourage. You are certainly free to do so.

Time after time we get posts similar to the one I just listed. While you may not seem to believe it, people that come here with something that resembles a plan and a willingness to put in the time and effort to learn - DO receive encouragement.

[Crabapple Plum]

Yes, I've read through the abundant posts. Yes, I've seen the holes in their plans, Yes, I've seen arrogance and that arrogance is exactly WHY they need to confront themselves. I've met many of these young people in person. They have an entire different attitude in the morning, even when it was only the Maniacal Chucklebird they heard in the dark and not the big kitty cat. Waking up with giant banana slugs stuck to their faces brings a similar attitude adjustment. I work HARD not to belittle, bust balls or laugh at young men during their transformation.

The best advice to give anyone is to have a back up plan. It's what I ask everyone who tells me of their new, wild to me, adventure. It's what I asked my middle-aged cousin when she told me she was driving across the country to live with her internet boyfriend named Bunny she hadn't met in person. It worked for her, she's deleriously happy.

Do I feel any responsibility for the wellbeing of anyone asking for wilderness adventure advice? No more so than if they asked for directions to the nearest burger joint. I've ALWAYS lived on the edge of wilderness, I'm used to foreigners with crappy guidebooks asking me for directions and advice. I give it to them without making judgements on their personhood.

I assume people have the brains God gave a piss ant to turn around and back out of a situation that's too intense for them. Considering the millions of people who enter the wilderness every year and the tiny few who die, the wilderness is much safer than your cities. More people die in the National Parks than in the wilderness areas.

[hunter63]

Again, I'm trying to understand why a place called wilderness survival tells young men, "Don't go into the wild, it's too scarey and dangerous for ignorant fools like YOU." Are you a bunch of people who had traumatic near death experiences out camping?

The wilderness survival stuff is just that , staying alive.......Why would anyone encourage behavior that will end in a avoidable bad situation?

I do understand the "what doesn't kill ya makes ya stronger", and the self test, that every young man kinda is looking for....but still will not advise self destructive or illegal activities.

Real life doesn't have a "Replay Button".

I agree to disagree with you and your opinion.

[Sourdough]

I have to side with "Crabapple Plum" on this. I think most of the young "Wahooo's" that come here are just yanking the forum members chain. This Forum at this time has a true identity problem, it does not know what it wants to be.

To me the sad thing is all of the real outdoors men who have left this forum (Kevin, Dogman, Alaskan Survivalist & many others) in my opinion because so many here are "Talk" and not "boots in the field".

Do you'all realize how rare it is that someone posts about current real field experiences. This forum an incentious feedback loop. I love this forum, and many of the members are like family to me, But we need to encourage the spirit of young people, nor crush their dreams. It is not my job to be their mommy, It is my job to say go for it, but be careful. Out of the hundreds and hundreds of young people who have come here, I doubt that (2) Two have ever ventured off asphalt. As I say I think most are just looking for some survival gimmick like cooking an egg in a paper bag, so as to get face with their friends.

[Crabapple Plum]

Egg in a paper bag, huh? I've never heard of that. I can usually wrangle a challenge of egg on a stick.

[el-amigo]

If I understand well you're speaking about two different things.

1. Survival, when you face with the unexpected and have to stay alive with your equipment and knowledge. This situation is seriously life threatening.
2. Camping, when you want to go out and do something in the "wilderness".

The forum gives good advices and theoretical knowledge to face with the unexpected, but everyone should practice it on his/her own.
At the other hand, you can use this knowledge during your camping. This is my personal opinion.

Sorry if I misunderstood the whole thread and write idiot things.

[hunter63]

Egg in a paper bag, huh? I've never heard of that. I can usually wrangle a challenge of egg on a stick.

They this:
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?20089-Cooking-Bacon-And-Eggs-In-A-Paper-Bag-How-To-Video

[jfeatherjohn]

Wow! I was out in the woods, alone, many times when I was a youngin, and I completely missed the controversy, or that was what made me a "man".
I have also enjoyed cruising around pulling my travel trailer, alone. Rite of passage?
I am completely confused...not unusual...but troubling.

[Crabapple Plum]

It's not like we're picking these young men up from their doorsteps and drop them in the middle of Bob Marshall with a can of sardines when the grizzlies are waking up. Or in the middle of Siberia in October with a dried squid. The young man who wishes to go to Siberia still need to get a passport and visa, arrange his own transportation and negotiate with the locals when he gets there. Those tasks contain more learning experiences than he would get his first year of college and a heck of lot more than what he will learn living in his mother's basement.

I've lived along the jump-off points and wilderness trailheads for 40 years and met hundreds of these young men. Their idealism, enthusiasm , naivity and ignorance is astounding as they head out to "live off the land for a year." Guess what? They don't die. They grow up and see the error of their ways real fast. They don't go far off the beaten path if at all. They don't know what true wilderness is. When they get cold, wet and hungry, they are less than half a day's walk from pavement and they're looking to get out! A lot of them are ready to go home within 3 days - 1 week. But by golly, they had their wilderness adventure, they learned something and they grew up! They honed their survival instinct! Some keep at it, keep learning and become skilled professional adventurers.

The wilderness can kill you! Mother Nature is Deadly! She is also a nurturer and a teacher and a divine practitioner of the healing arts. Let her be your master instead of trying to master her.

[intothenew]

Take a deeeeeep breath;


This is a kinder, gentler forum than when I showed up a few months ago. Rather than direct attacks, there is the inside joke of “GLWT”. A slight improvement, but an improvement non the less. I state that with two exceptions, two people that is. I too, have been guilty of dog piling. I am consciously trying to temper that. But, as has been stated, we each have and should have an opinion. “That's freedom for ya ain't it?” ( I loosely quote Thad. Where's he by the way? He has been a kind and level headed voice.)

I can argue this subject from either side, I have two explicit examples:

One; Payne

He took off via his bug out thumb, and made waters edge sometime last week I think. He's living his dream, and I stress the word living, at least as far as last week.

Two; Peter

Where the heck is Peter? I worry about that one.

One has made it, at least part way, the other we just don't know. I struggle with taking a stand on either side of this argument. The nice thing is, I don't have to. We are not here to be mommies, and we are not here to give ill advice. We are here to give and take good advice.

Where is here? Here is the place where we do those things we do alone, together. Here is the digital medium for us to discuss, bond, share, and want. Here is the place for us to be teacher, student, or both.

I cannot say that I have been more discouraged in quite some time, as when I found out that the “boots in the field” contest was dropped. I had a nominee in mind, one that had not received the award, and if memory serves me right had not ever been nominated. I did research the previous BITF threads. I've even read every sticky, but one. I haven't been able to make it through the gutter thread, I get lost in thoughts and fears. I will finish reading it, but I digress.

I can say that same discouragement was felt with the homework threads. They are dangerous as posted, not necessarily from what was in them but from what was left out.

I have also been back into history enough to know that this place has been likened to a “Mature Church”. That fits, that simple description fits very well.

I see it as the two ends of the bell curve are being trimmed. Those wanting more, more adept, sharper in skills, and more active are moving on. Those that are naive, immature, slow, and/or just plan lazy are moving on too. One side of the curve I could possibly ignore, the other I cannot.

So what does all of that jabber have to do with “a young man's right of passage”? I need to change a noun first to “he/she”.

He/She is looking for an education when they walk through that digital door. He/She is looking for A PLACE TO DO THE THINGS WE DO ALONE, TOGETHER. That holds true for teacher and student, young and old, sourdough or tenderfoot.

How might we accomplish that? I think the BITF concept should be reinstated, with a caveat. I think something along the lines of the homework thread should be instituted with it. Show your stuff, teacher and student, young and old, sourdough or tenderfoot.

Both ends of the bell curve will gain from it, as well as those in the middle.

[kyratshooter]

OK, I take it al back.

I propose that we take the entire segment of the U.S. population that turns 18 each year and airdrop them in the center of the Brooks Range. The ones that make it out get to continue life and the ones that do not, we discontinue worring over.

I do not propose that no one enter the woods, I simply will not take responsibility for encouraging the untrained to go on a death quest.

At least when you join the Marines they give you 6 months intensive training before sending you into combat. Most of our young volunteers go into that effort starry eyed and thinking they are invencible also. That is why they recruit them right out of High School, while they are young and dumb.

Please note that most of our ROTTW group is in that 17-22 age group and we have yet to see a female among the number.

Payne did not enter the woods to stay for the preverbial year. He had sense enough to modify his plans/dreams. Much of that decision due to our influnce. He hitched rides across Canada with some camping along the way, just as many of my friends did across the U.S. back in the 1960s. No mention being made over the lost sleep his parents might have suffered, or how many other 18 year olds have been killed and dumped in ditches during the year of his travels.

As far as modifying the forum to teach? That is what we try to do now. The whole forum, except for the general discussion sections is set up as a teaching tool. Only thing is the constant flow of new learners creates a continuios loop of repitition that wears out the most patient of saints. Most of the "ROTTW" group do not want to learn anyway. They will not even stop long enough to read the multitude of stickies we have under each topic heading. They consider themselves already prepared for "the Journey". They come here hoping to get approval for what their parents have already told them they should not do.

[intothenew]

..........Only thing is the constant flow of new learners creates a continuios loop of repitition that wears out the most patient of saints. Most of the "ROTTW" group do not want to learn anyway........


I contend that they do want to learn. They are also scared and confused. The cure for the "saints" is to point the "ROTTW group" to a "COTU Wilderness Script". A concise set of basic instruction as defined, and demonstrated, by the "saints" would go much farther than "Give us an introduction". Not that there is anything wrong with a proper written introduction, but I figure the "saints" would appreciate a "lean to" and a good cup of "joe" too.

You only concentrate on one side of the curve?

[kyratshooter]

I contend that they do want to learn. They are also scared and confused. The cure for the "saints" is to point the "ROTTW group" to a "COTU Wilderness Script". A concise set of basic instruction as defined, and demonstrated, by the "saints" would go much farther than "Give us an introduction". Not that there is anything wrong with a proper written introduction, but I figure the "saints" would appreciate a "lean to" and a good cup of "joe" too.

You only concentrate on one side of the curve?

Again, look at the forum index!

There are more than twenty subjects under specific headings that does exactly what you are saying needs to be done! It is already done and does not need to be repeated in another form or in a RATTW section.

If the new person wants to learn the most specific of details all they have to do is go to that heading and scan or ask. I have seen this group go to extremes to provide answers to very basic question when they are asked.

"I am going to the woods to hide from my parents for a year. Do not try to talk me out of it! Please give me a list of everything I need and instructions on how to use it." is not a valid querry for information.

[BENESSE]

I'm in the Kyrat school of thought here.
We've been very discriminating in our responses to young people, clearly making a difference between those who are really looking to learn and others who require unconditional support for their half baked fantasies. That's because we pay attention to what they say and even more to what they don't. It's easy to tell them go for it, live your dream, screw society, responsibilities and parents. After all, we're anonymous, what do we have to loose? Makes no difference to us one way or another. It's so much easier to be supportive than talk sense and ask the hard questions.
But we do care, and, for what it's worth, we do take this responsibility seriously. There is a huge difference between a face to face discourse and a virtual one where you have to thread lightly and prudently especially when dealing with young people who by their own admission are grappling with deeper issues than just wanting to go out and spend time with nature.

Our life experiences across the board are vastly different so obviously you're gonna feel most comfortable with your way of doing things. Just know it's not the only way...which is what makes this forum interesting. If these newbies are mature enough to rough it out in the wilderness for any period of time, they'll be mature enough to deal with some hard core questions here.
And you, dear fellow members, should give your advice the way you see fit without getting hung up on the way other members are responding. A range of answers is a good thing not bad.

[Crabapple Plum]

We've been very discriminating in our responses to young people, clearly making a difference between those who are really looking to learn and others who require unconditional support for their half baked fantasies.See, I don't believe this kind of judgementalism and belittlement serves anyone, and doesn't serve the intended spirit of the forum. These boys are simply different learners and it causes a high level of frustration to some people who don't get that, and in return, also to these boys.

That's why they wish to seek the solitude of the wilderness and some positive words of encouragement. Kind words cost nothing. They aren't asking for your judgementalism, they're asking to be taught in a way they can learn. They're not book learners, they're hands-on and they have no one in real life to teach.

Break each task into 3 steps and DO. Learn it, practice. Start the next task..... Even when this begins with which section of the forum to start reading and print from. As they learn they can bake their plan. It won't be finished until they're home again.

The big thing is our attitudes toward the wilderness. It is NOT a big scarey place that will kill a young man. Middle-age dumbasses, yes, but not them. That's got to be as confusing to them as it is to me. I'm a survive and thrive person out there and never felt in danger.

I don't believe a person's family relationships should have any bearing on how they're treated. We don't KNOW and it's none of our business. It's called respecting the personhood.

When my kid went to a Central America, she didn't ask my permission. She didn't ask for money so I didn't have any say. I asked if she had a plan and a back up plan. All I got was, "Yup." When my other DD became a bail bondsman at 19 it was a real WTF moment. She assured me she was safe. They were adults.

I

[ReconScout]

In my opinion, being introduced to nature, its seasons, climates, creature, plants, streams, clean air and starry nights is a rite of passage for a young person. Yes, from the basic casual hiking & camping to the more stern survival skills honed through experience and guidance are sought after by the inquisitive. Especially by those who want to learn. I believe every youth should be exposed to the mountains, fishing, hunting, camping, sleeping bags and starry nights at a young age. For those that take to such adventures, their own curiosity will lead to questions and those willing to provide answers of more intricate in depth knowledge.

I would never dissuade anyone from wanting to learn more about the outdoors and nature, however I would encourage a realistic view of one's own abilities. Just because one can find the north star and recognize poison oak doesn't make a person an expert. In my opinion, while I'm cautious of encouraging some youth with romantic ideas of running off to the high country for a year, try a weekend with a family member or approved mentor. Survival is far different than camping. Finding out what you don't know or aren't sure of is the beginning of education.

[Wildthang]

I feel that being a responsible forum member and woodsmen, it is and always will be our responsibility to offer the correct advice to inexperienced members. It is hard to know and judge someone over the internent, so we just do the best we can. I think we do talk down to them to some degree, but it is because we care.
The bottom line is they will either listen or they won't, but we still have to give them the best advice possible for their best interest. From what i have seen, we advise them to learn the basic skills before they go on their journey, so what is wrong with that?

[intothenew]

Grasshopper walks in the digital door:


I am kinda new at this, but I am going on an overnight trip. I want to make a primitive shelter. What is the best?

Saint answers:


An introduction would help, answer a few questions for me. How old are you? Where are you/will you be located? How tall are you?

Grasshopper:


I am 19, Northeast US, and I am 6' 3"

Saint:


That's a good start grasshopper, you are in an incredibly resource rich area. The American Natives...........(grasshopper skips the next three paragraphs). The American Settlers.......(again skips another three or four). I think you should start out with a tent, you'll need to sleep diagonal DAMHIK. Those folks lived a hard life, and we don't want that for you.

Buy a copy of the FM and BSA manual and read it in your tent, everything you need is in there. You can practice some of the contents between bags of Cheetos. You may need that knowledge one day. Get out there and show us what ya got, I'll be here waiting for the next question.


There is some sound advice from the “saint”, cautious yet daring. Take your wooby and read a book.

You are still in “dep hell”.
An excerpt from The Urban Dictionary:



Dependency Hell
(n) A state that computers running a RPM-Based linux system get into. It involves Package A needing package B, and Package B needing packages C & D, and Package C needs package F, while package D is incompatible with package F.



The “saint” will still have the next grasshopper to deal with. The “saint”, nor the grasshopper, does not know if any of the dependent packages are present.



Again, we are concentrating on one side of the curve. It would be so refreshing to see a sub forum dedicated to show and tell on that subject as well as many more. The "saint" builds a shelter/shelters defining the whys, wherefores, and prerequisites. Subsequent posts are the other "saints" and mere mortals showing shelter builds. Grasshoppers must post and show proficiency also, but only after completing the prerequisites. This place has a huge demographic, the wealth of knowledge is immense. But it is fragmented, with little focus on interdependency. Why not try and tap that? A shelter in Appalachia will certainly be different than in the Australian outback. That may be by a small amount, or could be huge. I would enjoy seeing those differences in culture, climate, and resources.

I consider the discussion short sighted to only focus on the "RATTW" crowd. There will be disagreement on that point just as how to raise a child. Where we should all agree is that we all need/should get outside and DO things. Or do we? “Saints”, mere mortals, and grasshoppers should show their packages.

[hunter63]

It seems there are many ways to teach, and learn, and many opinions on how to do it....That's the great part of a open forum.

I doubt that any personnel opinions will be changed by this or any other discussion for that matter, but it's good to know where people are coming from.
Good stuff.......

MF used to say, "Experiance is the best teacher, but if you have any questions....ask., but you might not like the answer".

Carry on.......

[crashdive123]

..........
Again, we are concentrating on one side of the curve. It would be so refreshing to see a sub forum dedicated to show and tell on that subject as well as many more. The "saint" builds a shelter/shelters defining the whys, wherefores, and prerequisites. Subsequent posts are the other "saints" and mere mortals showing shelter builds. Grasshoppers must post and show proficiency also, but only after completing the prerequisites. This place has a huge demographic, the wealth of knowledge is immense. But it is fragmented, with little focus on interdependency. Why not try and tap that? A shelter in Appalachia will certainly be different than in the Australian outback. That may be by a small amount, or could be huge. I would enjoy seeing those differences in culture, climate, and resources.

I consider the discussion short sighted to only focus on the "RATTW" crowd. There will be disagreement on that point just as how to raise a child. Where we should all agree is that we all need/should get outside and DO things. Or do we? “Saints”, mere mortals, and grasshoppers should show their packages.

What are your thoughts on something like this? http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?20207-Boots-In-The-Field

[1stimestar]

See, I don't believe this kind of judgementalism and belittlement serves anyone, and doesn't serve the intended spirit of the forum.

Really? So by "anyone", you mean men only.


Reading the fine print (finally) I see this forum is about ACCIDENTALLY being in the wilderness, not going on purpose. Uhmmmm......some of us go there on purpose. We call it going home. Yeah, Mother Nature only has to win once, but the red light only has to win once, the JBT only has to win once, the suburban thug, Mall Ninja, Woman Driver, trucks on the viaduct, the Shrew Crew........

You might want to get to know your audience a bit better before posting insulting diatribes.

[Rick]

An introduction would help, answer a few questions for me. How old are you? Where are you/will you be located? How tall are you?

Back in the days before enlightenment we used to ask for an introduction. We reasoned that you wouldn't walk into a camp without one or into a group of strangers without one. That was deemed intrusive on the part of the mods and members asked for new rules. Now we know not who we are conversing with and we know nothing about them. We went from civility and courtesy to darkness and unknowing. Sounds like a government program doesn't it?

[crashdive123]

What I find rather amusing is that those that encouraged that we not ask for introductions, dare I say...demanded that we don't ask for introductions have mostly disappeared. Funny how when the squeaky wheel gets greased it often moves on to where its squeak will be heard more loudly.

[BENESSE]

We are but a mirror of what happens out there which we all lament about from time to time--general erosion of standards that we so fondly remember but now easily compromise because a few have have deemed them too demanding. Good manners aside, a proper introduction provides context for any interaction, especially one where advice is sought and received.
I am very disappointed we caved on that one.

[intothenew]

An introduction cannot be anything but good. You offer a template, a darn good one I might add.

[DOGMAN]

The Wilderness Journey- A Rite of Passage, the transition from boyhood to manhood its an age old tradition. I don't think most folks here discourage that journey. I just think people discourage doing it in a wreckless, ignorant manner. Personally, I am all for it....on the bad side you could end up like Chris McCandless, on the good side you could end up like Jesus...lol

[kyratshooter]

Those of us that have been here for a while can recall that most of these ROTTW posters never return for more than a few posts, even when encouraged.

Some of them have continued in their pursuit, when tolerated, asking more and more rediculious questions and becomming insulting when given honest and experienced answers, until they were banned, that all ROTTW inquiries have gained a trolling status.

If that is considered "passing udgement" then so be it! We filter our assiciations on a daily basis often based on far less than the information gained on these ROTTW posts.

Are you really going to give a ride to that wild eyed, fidgetty, buzz headed kid with the tatoos on his neck just because he has a cardboard sign announcing he is headed for Alaska?

Others have reworded their querries, sometimes changed their plans, continued to ask sensable questions and have gained our respect and assistance.

It was when he students began setting the agenda and content of cirriculum that the U.S. educational system fell into the pits.

Did you realize that the best prepper sites on the internet, the ones you never heard about, are invitation only? They absolutely refuse to put up with ROTTW threads or this BS about judgementalism.

[Rick]

Invitation only? I don't want to belong to any site that would have the likes of me as a member.

[BENESSE]

All this brings to mind another important aspect of survival, often overlooked: being able to navigate in society and get along with all sorts of people from all walks of life. People who are well adjusted are less likely to have "issues" which prevent them from learning, holding a job, having friends and generally getting along with others. In preparing for TSHTF, unless one finds himself on a lone island, or ends up being the last person standing, it might be wise to practice some social skills along with starting a fire with a magnifying glass and building a stove from a can.

[BENESSE]

Invitation only?

But then we'd miss all the fun that leads to banning.

[crashdive123]

Invitation only? I don't want to belong to any site that would have the likes of me as a member.

Goucho....is that you?

[Rick]

Nope. Just Eric the Lecturer.

[Crabapple Plum]

Having been a tutor for these different learners, aka disposable kids, ROTTW, I would say they stick around here long enough to pick up a trick or two that may or may not work then split for the woods for hands-on learning and never look back.

[Crabapple Plum]

Really? So by "anyone", you mean men only.



You might want to get to know your audience a bit better before posting insulting diatribes.

Aunt Crabby is a girl. That's in my introduction.

[1stimestar]

Hahaha. Well that MIGHT make a difference. Maybe.

[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

Церк (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/8742)189.2 (http://cottagenet.ru/plan/258)�лед (http://eyesvision.ru)CHAP (http://eyesvisions.com)Much (http://factoringfee.ru/t/1114105)Erne (http://filmzones.ru/t/851365)любо (http://gadwall.ru/t/834097)гово (http://gaffertape.ru/t/1044947)У�ев (http://gageboard.ru/t/989773)Andr (http://gagrule.ru/t/810790)укра (http://gallduct.ru/t/1152089)Ма�л (http://galvanometric.ru/t/818492)окон (http://gangforeman.ru/t/856979)тек� (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/1147096)6298 (http://garbagechute.ru/t/1143708)
�бор (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/856552)NX04 (http://gascautery.ru/t/1143413)Tesc (http://gashbucket.ru/t/504009)Tren (http://gasreturn.ru/t/1143712)Wong (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/686594)но�б (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/1161097)откр (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/1159427)CONS (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/925949)Garl (http://geartreating.ru/t/918769)Gunt (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/847116)Мерц (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/814027)Шела (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/813688)�бор (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/853808)Rich (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/850828)четв (http://getthebounce.ru/t/344562)
Neve (http://habeascorpus.ru/t/1086859)и�по (http://habituate.ru/t/1089539)Фран (http://hackedbolt.ru/t/676378)Intr (http://hackworker.ru/t/1109871)Intr (http://hadronicannihilation.ru/t/1101537)Gran (http://haemagglutinin.ru/t/1093560)Март (http://hailsquall.ru/t/676466)Иллю (http://hairysphere.ru/t/812038)Mari (http://halforderfringe.ru/t/664358)�тан (http://halfsiblings.ru/t/848255)Yema (http://hallofresidence.ru/t/624006)Боль (http://haltstate.ru/t/811046)иллю (http://handcoding.ru/t/959570)�рти (http://handportedhead.ru/t/1031819)medi (http://handradar.ru/t/628988)
Davi (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/790151)Karl (http://hangonpart.ru/t/832237)Zwei (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/566146)Gaya (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/566483)Cham (http://hardasiron.ru/t/567656)Bord (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/628967)Fran (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/745600)ПД-2 (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/573846)Erns (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/672323)иллю (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/840523)Снеж (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/639080)Dvor (http://headregulator.ru/t/1002142)�фга (http://heartofgold.ru/t/1375750)Push (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/565785)Eleg (http://heatinggas.ru/t/1187761)
Sela (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/1181929)Sela (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/605803)Step (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/608033)lair (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/672086)плам (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/636062)Adag (http://jobstress.ru/t/629770)�е�м (http://jogformation.ru/t/672182)Парц (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/1142358)Dima (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/1147237)Matt (http://journallubricator.ru/t/905602)Гуда (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/918261)карм (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/1179825)пала (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/1181290)выра (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/1040683)Hans (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/1017300)
врач (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/834428)Naso (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/611394)карм (http://kentishglory.ru/t/1182543)Modo (http://kerbweight.ru/t/1026493)Zone (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/607994)Zone (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/610424)��та (http://keyserum.ru/t/1180351)Juli (http://kickplate.ru/t/781612)Savl (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/977066)Матв (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/671311)губе (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/763134)�ове (http://kinozones.ru/film/8742)Кузн (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/672317)Irvi (http://kneejoint.ru/t/677561)Yoss (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/1073663)
Zone (http://knockonatom.ru/t/609107)О�мо (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/676190)Herm (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/771719)MORG (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/1193879)Blom (http://laborracket.ru/t/882048)Возг (http://labourearnings.ru/t/1242478)Kali (http://labourleasing.ru/t/912670)Zone (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/1190047)Zone (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/1188304)Zone (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/1187483)lsbk (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/1186292)NBRD (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/1183769)Л�пу (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/857763)Булг (http://laggingload.ru/t/1047952)Zone (http://laissezaller.ru/t/1191338)
Миль (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/867325)авто (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/1049326)�луж (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/1056888)Chet (http://lamphouse.ru/t/1184487)Соде (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/1049989)Barb (http://lancingdie.ru/t/916012)Махк (http://landingdoor.ru/t/1001965)03-1 (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/1184177)Zone (http://landreform.ru/t/1186370)diam (http://landuseratio.ru/t/1184690)Zone (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/1190507)двиг (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1160104)п�те (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/153833)RMC- (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/138)Pira (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/589336)

[yellowcab]

Bosc (http://laterevent.ru/shop/1030813)Nard (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/453044)SCAR (http://layabout.ru/shop/99613)Sals (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/100698)Voda (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/103012)рабо (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/302542)Bess (http://leaveword.ru/shop/145723)zhen (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/107542)Made (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/269039)Vanb (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/146014)read (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/95765)Blue (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/268388)Петр (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/159112)Бел� (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/159356)ARAG (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/613255)
заво (http://manualchoke.ru/shop/597524)Ñ�тар (http://medinfobooks.ru/book/2026)SkaM (http://mp3lists.ru/item/8742)Mapu (http://nameresolution.ru/shop/172245)пове (http://naphtheneseries.ru/shop/104349)раÑ�к (http://narrowmouthed.ru/shop/455856)Ð*оÑ�Ñ� (http://nationalcensus.ru/shop/176625)упра (http://naturalfunctor.ru/shop/100006)комп (http://navelseed.ru/shop/100580)Lego (http://neatplaster.ru/shop/447603)Wind (http://necroticcaries.ru/shop/27513)Ford (http://negativefibration.ru/shop/178307)Mist (http://neighbouringrights.ru/shop/146085)футл (http://objectmodule.ru/shop/108329)Moul (http://observationballoon.ru/shop/10160)
Rowe (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/98115)Omni (http://oceanmining.ru)Whis (http://octupolephonon.ru/shop/571841)Воро (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/147560)Viol (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/199841)ЛитÐ* (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/146957)движ (http://onesticket.ru/shop/378963)губе (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/579390)пиÑ�а (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/663290)Rame (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/202881)ЛитÐ* (http://palmberry.ru/shop/204762)ЛитÐ* (http://papercoating.ru/shop/580572)ЛитÐ* (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/684788)Гали (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1166076)(194 (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1166211)
Иллю (http://partfamily.ru/shop/1165149)дета (http://partialmajorant.ru/shop/1167885)Кра� (http://quadrupleworm.ru/shop/1295713)Спу� (http://qualitybooster.ru/shop/226013)поль (http://quasimoney.ru/shop/593563)sect (http://quenchedspark.ru/shop/593640)Char (http://quodrecuperet.ru/shop/913519)�туд (http://rabbetledge.ru/shop/1070763)ISDN (http://radialchaser.ru/shop/151145)Micr (http://radiationestimator.ru/shop/431056)1963 (http://railwaybridge.ru/shop/345796)Leig (http://randomcoloration.ru/shop/510168)Снеж (http://rapidgrowth.ru/shop/635612)Edva (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru/shop/1075413)Carr (http://reachthroughregion.ru/shop/173381)
Grea (http://readingmagnifier.ru/shop/438563)Bodo (http://rearchain.ru/shop/358000)колл (http://recessioncone.ru/shop/513525)по�т (http://recordedassignment.ru/shop/878903)Шуй� (http://rectifiersubstation.ru/shop/1052236)Воро (http://redemptionvalue.ru/shop/1058891)куль (http://reducingflange.ru/shop/1671587)изуч (http://referenceantigen.ru/shop/1692456)Мамо (http://regeneratedprotein.ru/shop/1225477)Intr (http://reinvestmentplan.ru/shop/121396)гуве (http://safedrilling.ru/shop/1328991)Мета (http://sagprofile.ru/shop/1045353)возр (http://salestypelease.ru/shop/1064847)Deer (http://samplinginterval.ru/shop/1417290)Shak (http://satellitehydrology.ru/shop/1457181)
Боро (http://scarcecommodity.ru/shop/1437462)Пахн (http://scrapermat.ru/shop/1457320)Дани (http://screwingunit.ru/shop/1492144)Мака (http://seawaterpump.ru/shop/178889)Бецк (http://secondaryblock.ru/shop/249394)Sigm (http://secularclergy.ru/shop/271366)�тих (http://seismicefficiency.ru/shop/41683)Би�е (http://selectivediffuser.ru/shop/370176)Carl (http://semiasphalticflux.ru/shop/398723)авто (http://semifinishmachining.ru/shop/411116)RMC- (http://spicetrade.ru/spice_zakaz/138)RMC- (http://spysale.ru/spy_zakaz/138)RMC- (http://stungun.ru/stun_zakaz/138)Кноп (http://tacticaldiameter.ru/shop/475697)�егр (http://tailstockcenter.ru/shop/488729)
Жуко (http://tamecurve.ru/shop/82612)букв (http://tapecorrection.ru/shop/84568)Иллю (http://tappingchuck.ru/shop/485067)Ð*оги (http://taskreasoning.ru/shop/496990)York (http://technicalgrade.ru/shop/1816613)XVII (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru/shop/1856461)позн (http://telescopicdamper.ru/shop/620386)Хлеб (http://temperateclimate.ru/shop/271810)Кузн (http://temperedmeasure.ru/shop/398666)ЛикÑ� (http://tenementbuilding.ru/shop/955580)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)ВоÑ�к (http://ultramaficrock.ru/shop/974936)Ð*оÑ�Ñ� (http://ultraviolettesting.ru/shop/477148)

[yellowcab]

geartreating.ru (http://geartreating.ru)hadronicannihilation.ru (http://hadronicannihilation.ru)getintoaflap.ru (http://getintoaflap.ru)gashbucket.ru (http://gashbucket.ru)scarcecommodity.ru (http://scarcecommodity.ru)kerrrotation.ru (http://kerrrotation.ru)hailsquall.ru (http://hailsquall.ru)heavydutymetalcutting.ru (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru)hazardousatmosphere.ru (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru)mammasdarling.ru (http://mammasdarling.ru)heatageingresistance.ru (http://heatageingresistance.ru)laborracket.ru (http://laborracket.ru)kaposidisease.ru (http://kaposidisease.ru)landuseratio.ru (http://landuseratio.ru)offlinesystem.ru (http://offlinesystem.ru)
lacingcourse.ru (http://lacingcourse.ru)semiasphalticflux.ru (http://semiasphalticflux.ru)packedspheres.ru (http://packedspheres.ru)neatplaster.ru (http://neatplaster.ru)gaussianfilter.ru (http://gaussianfilter.ru)secularclergy.ru (http://secularclergy.ru)hardasiron.ru (http://hardasiron.ru)kleinbottle.ru (http://kleinbottle.ru)cottagenet.ru (http://cottagenet.ru)laminatedmaterial.ru (http://laminatedmaterial.ru)selectivediffuser.ru (http://selectivediffuser.ru)papercoating.ru (http://papercoating.ru)objectmodule.ru (http://objectmodule.ru)jobstress.ru (http://jobstress.ru)getthebounce.ru (http://getthebounce.ru)
gardeningleave.ru (http://gardeningleave.ru)olibanumresinoid.ru (http://olibanumresinoid.ru)temperedmeasure.ru (http://temperedmeasure.ru)readingmagnifier.ru (http://readingmagnifier.ru)quasimoney.ru (http://quasimoney.ru)reachthroughregion.ru (http://reachthroughregion.ru)haphazardwinding.ru (http://haphazardwinding.ru)hangonpart.ru (http://hangonpart.ru)eyesvision.ru (http://eyesvision.ru)naturalfunctor.ru (http://naturalfunctor.ru)landmarksensor.ru (http://landmarksensor.ru)knifesethouse.ru (http://knifesethouse.ru)heartofgold.ru (http://heartofgold.ru)satellitehydrology.ru (http://satellitehydrology.ru)gasreturn.ru (http://gasreturn.ru)
radialchaser.ru (http://radialchaser.ru)quadrupleworm.ru (http://quadrupleworm.ru)lactogenicfactor.ru (http://lactogenicfactor.ru)haltstate.ru (http://haltstate.ru)rabbetledge.ru (http://rabbetledge.ru)latrinesergeant.ru (http://latrinesergeant.ru)juicecatcher.ru (http://juicecatcher.ru)lacrimalpoint.ru (http://lacrimalpoint.ru)jogformation.ru (http://jogformation.ru)magneticequator.ru (http://magneticequator.ru)haemagglutinin.ru (http://haemagglutinin.ru)sagprofile.ru (http://sagprofile.ru)hatchholddown.ru (http://hatchholddown.ru)samplinginterval.ru (http://samplinginterval.ru)galvanometric.ru (http://galvanometric.ru)
seawaterpump.ru (http://seawaterpump.ru)laserpulse.ru (http://laserpulse.ru)spysale.ru (http://spysale.ru)rattlesnakemaster.ru (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru)labourleasing.ru (http://labourleasing.ru)safedrilling.ru (http://safedrilling.ru)screwingunit.ru (http://screwingunit.ru)gaffertape.ru (http://gaffertape.ru)oceanmining.ru (http://oceanmining.ru)nationalcensus.ru (http://nationalcensus.ru)keyserum.ru (http://keyserum.ru)laterevent.ru (http://laterevent.ru)journallubricator.ru (http://journallubricator.ru)gageboard.ru (http://gageboard.ru)haveafinetime.ru (http://haveafinetime.ru)
tapecorrection.ru (http://tapecorrection.ru)railwaybridge.ru (http://railwaybridge.ru)secondaryblock.ru (http://secondaryblock.ru)layabout.ru (http://layabout.ru)landreform.ru (http://landreform.ru)taskreasoning.ru (http://taskreasoning.ru)nameresolution.ru (http://nameresolution.ru)radiationestimator.ru (http://radiationestimator.ru)knowledgestate.ru (http://knowledgestate.ru)justiciablehomicide.ru (http://justiciablehomicide.ru)halforderfringe.ru (http://halforderfringe.ru)tappingchuck.ru (http://tappingchuck.ru)gangforeman.ru (http://gangforeman.ru)manualchoke.ru (http://manualchoke.ru)knockonatom.ru (http://knockonatom.ru)
gagrule.ru (http://gagrule.ru)ladletreatediron.ru (http://ladletreatediron.ru)gatedsweep.ru (http://gatedsweep.ru)geophysicalprobe.ru (http://geophysicalprobe.ru)languagelaboratory.ru (http://languagelaboratory.ru)keymanassurance.ru (http://keymanassurance.ru)qualitybooster.ru (http://qualitybooster.ru)necroticcaries.ru (http://necroticcaries.ru)rearchain.ru (http://rearchain.ru)largeheart.ru (http://largeheart.ru)handcoding.ru (http://handcoding.ru)hardenedconcrete.ru (http://hardenedconcrete.ru)gaugemodel.ru (http://gaugemodel.ru)rapidgrowth.ru (http://rapidgrowth.ru)lammasshoot.ru (http://lammasshoot.ru)
kentishglory.ru (http://kentishglory.ru)gallduct.ru (http://gallduct.ru)medinfobooks.ru (http://medinfobooks.ru)harmonicinteraction.ru (http://harmonicinteraction.ru)majorconcern.ru (http://majorconcern.ru)handradar.ru (http://handradar.ru)hardalloyteeth.ru (http://hardalloyteeth.ru)jibtypecrane.ru (http://jibtypecrane.ru)laggingload.ru (http://laggingload.ru)offsetholder.ru (http://offsetholder.ru)kneejoint.ru (http://kneejoint.ru)scrapermat.ru (http://scrapermat.ru)habituate.ru (http://habituate.ru)jointsealingmaterial.ru (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru)octupolephonon.ru (http://octupolephonon.ru)

[yellowcab]

negativefibration.ru (http://negativefibration.ru)keepsmthinhand.ru (http://keepsmthinhand.ru)obstructivepatent.ru (http://obstructivepatent.ru)factoringfee.ru (http://factoringfee.ru)learningcurve.ru (http://learningcurve.ru)salestypelease.ru (http://salestypelease.ru)observationballoon.ru (http://observationballoon.ru)laissezaller.ru (http://laissezaller.ru)referenceantigen.ru (http://referenceantigen.ru)telescopicdamper.ru (http://telescopicdamper.ru)labeledgraph.ru (http://labeledgraph.ru)geriatricnurse.ru (http://geriatricnurse.ru)killthefattedcalf.ru (http://killthefattedcalf.ru)rectifiersubstation.ru (http://rectifiersubstation.ru)leadingfirm.ru (http://leadingfirm.ru)
filmzones.ru (http://filmzones.ru)naphtheneseries.ru (http://naphtheneseries.ru)gangwayplatform.ru (http://gangwayplatform.ru)temperateclimate.ru (http://temperateclimate.ru)gascautery.ru (http://gascautery.ru)randomcoloration.ru (http://randomcoloration.ru)leadcoating.ru (http://leadcoating.ru)managerialstaff.ru (http://managerialstaff.ru)lambdatransition.ru (http://lambdatransition.ru)halfsiblings.ru (http://halfsiblings.ru)navelseed.ru (http://navelseed.ru)narrowmouthed.ru (http://narrowmouthed.ru)audiobookkeeper.ru (http://audiobookkeeper.ru)machinesensible.ru (http://machinesensible.ru)neighbouringrights.ru (http://neighbouringrights.ru)
tenementbuilding.ru (http://tenementbuilding.ru)quodrecuperet.ru (http://quodrecuperet.ru)recordedassignment.ru (http://recordedassignment.ru)leaveword.ru (http://leaveword.ru)partialmajorant.ru (http://partialmajorant.ru)reinvestmentplan.ru (http://reinvestmentplan.ru)recessioncone.ru (http://recessioncone.ru)parasolmonoplane.ru (http://parasolmonoplane.ru)laburnumtree.ru (http://laburnumtree.ru)telangiectaticlipoma.ru (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)redemptionvalue.ru (http://redemptionvalue.ru)paraconvexgroup.ru (http://paraconvexgroup.ru)habeascorpus.ru (http://habeascorpus.ru)heatinggas.ru (http://heatinggas.ru)magnetotelluricfield.ru (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru)
generalprovisions.ru (http://generalprovisions.ru)parkingbrake.ru (http://parkingbrake.ru)juxtapositiontwin.ru (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru)hartlaubgoose.ru (http://hartlaubgoose.ru)gadwall.ru (http://gadwall.ru)labourearnings.ru (http://labourearnings.ru)handportedhead.ru (http://handportedhead.ru)hackedbolt.ru (http://hackedbolt.ru)lamphouse.ru (http://lamphouse.ru)stungun.ru (http://stungun.ru)quenchedspark.ru (http://quenchedspark.ru)japanesecedar.ru (http://japanesecedar.ru)hairysphere.ru (http://hairysphere.ru)laserlens.ru (http://laserlens.ru)kilowattsecond.ru (http://kilowattsecond.ru)
technicalgrade.ru (http://technicalgrade.ru)mp3lists.ru (http://mp3lists.ru)tacticaldiameter.ru (http://tacticaldiameter.ru)jacketedwall.ru (http://jacketedwall.ru)ultraviolettesting.ru (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)junctionofchannels.ru (http://junctionofchannels.ru)seismicefficiency.ru (http://seismicefficiency.ru)kickplate.ru (http://kickplate.ru)kinozones.ru (http://kinozones.ru)lacunarycoefficient.ru (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru)palatinebones.ru (http://palatinebones.ru)keepagoodoffing.ru (http://keepagoodoffing.ru)lasercalibration.ru (http://lasercalibration.ru)lancecorporal.ru (http://lancecorporal.ru)jobabandonment.ru (http://jobabandonment.ru)
handsfreetelephone.ru (http://handsfreetelephone.ru)gearpitchdiameter.ru (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru)tailstockcenter.ru (http://tailstockcenter.ru)garbagechute.ru (http://garbagechute.ru)onesticket.ru (http://onesticket.ru)manipulatinghand.ru (http://manipulatinghand.ru)mailinghouse.ru (http://mailinghouse.ru)hackworker.ru (http://hackworker.ru)jointcapsule.ru (http://jointcapsule.ru)palmberry.ru (http://palmberry.ru)spicetrade.ru (http://spicetrade.ru)kingweakfish.ru (http://kingweakfish.ru)regeneratedprotein.ru (http://regeneratedprotein.ru)ultramaficrock.ru (http://ultramaficrock.ru)semifinishmachining.ru (http://semifinishmachining.ru)
headregulator.ru (http://headregulator.ru)landingdoor.ru (http://landingdoor.ru)pagingterminal.ru (http://pagingterminal.ru)hallofresidence.ru (http://hallofresidence.ru)partfamily.ru (http://partfamily.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)kondoferromagnet.ru (http://kondoferromagnet.ru)lancingdie.ru (http://lancingdie.ru)reducingflange.ru (http://reducingflange.ru)tamecurve.ru (http://tamecurve.ru)generalizedanalysis.ru (http://generalizedanalysis.ru)kerbweight.ru (http://kerbweight.ru)eyesvisions.com (http://eyesvisions.com)