The art of bartering, no set rules.

[Wildthang]

I have looked up many sites on bartering, and not one of those sites seem to give anything but general rules. None of them get down to the detail of what barter items are worth, or how to place values on particular items.
How many of us have actuially bartered? Yeah we have all been to a few flea markets, but we pay money for that stuff, so that isnt bartering. We have all probably traded a gun or 2 for something, or traded an old truck that we didn't need, but that isn't really giving us a lot of bartering experience.
So if the S ever hits the fan, and we are forced to enter a society that must barter to survive, how many of us really know how to place a trade value on any given item? Probably not many! And it seems to me that there are so many variables and emotions to bartering, it is nothing like buying goods because you are dealing one on one with people and there is no set price, no stickers, no bar codes, just the goods.
So here is my idea of valuing an item, and the variables you would be faced with:

If you bought the item in a store, what would you have paid for it? Let's say $50.
1. Is the item in new or used condition, probably worth less in well used condition. Slightly used so take off $10
2. How bad does the potential buyer want this item, you need to be able to read people to know this!
3. Does the potential buyer need the item to survive? Again, you need to be able to read people, and if he does need it to survive, and nobody else has this item, add another hypothetical $50 to the value, what the heck! So now we are at $90 for the hypothetical value!
4. Do you know this guy, is he a freind? If he is a trusted friend or neighbor, would you charge him the full $90?
5. He has something you really need, so do you reduce the hypothetical price because you really need this item? Or do you wait until you can get a better deal?
6. Does this guy have a family that will depend on this trade?
7. Do you know his family?
8. Do you feel sorry for this guy and his family?
9. Do you want to help this guy and his family?
10. Does anybody else that you know have a better deal, or better product?
11. Do you know this guy and can you trust him?
12. Do you get bad feelings from this person, and do you want to even take the time to discuss a trade with them?
13. Do you feel like this guy has plans to take your goods at any cost?
14. Bartering could be very dangerous, so how do you assure your safety during bartering?
15. What kind of back up do you have to assure your safety?
16. You could literally end up thinking the item to be bartered is worth $90, or be scared for your life and go on the "prepare to draw firearm offensive"!

It seems to me that bartering could be a very emotional and complex thing for people to get used to. In fact, I think it is a lost art that most people have no idea of the how too's. Now it is easy to say, I wouldn't care who his family is, or how bad they need these items, and I dont care if he is a friend or not, but deep down inside you do. I know I am rambling, but I have been thinking about this for several days, and looked up some stuff on the internet, and there is a lot of information on what to barter, but there is nothing in existance that tells you what barter items are worth, or how to place a value on them.
So if we are ever forced to barter, how on earth are we to place trade values on needed goods? There should be a chart that gives value points to set a baseline of what things are worth, and then it would be a matter of how badly you want the goods as to how much you would trade.
I think that if we are ever forced into a bartering system, most people are going to be totally lost as to how to barter and get what they need without losing their azzes in the process.
So my friends, how would you place a value on bartered items when money has devalued and worthless.

What items would be dangerous or hard to barter:

1. Booze
2. Ammo, for you ammo hoarders out there:smartass:
3. Knives
4. Hand held non firearm type weapons.
5. Fuel

It seems to me that bartering almost has no set rules, and could be very dangerous the way this world is getting, yet we may have to barter to live some day which is actually a little scary when you think about it. So does anybody here on this beloved forum truly know the rules to bartering, and how to place a value on goods to barter? I would love to hear it!
So the know it all's amoung us will all think this is easy stuff, but is it rally? Can anybody tell me how to value barter items?

[hunter63]

Reading that just makes my head hurt.....As your observations are pretty much spot on.

I have traded a lot of things over the years, was the value equal, more often than not....No.

I guess I depend on Karma and my gut to make this work.....If your gut is telling you, Don't do it......It's right.

There is a 'hour bank", being pushed in the larger town north of here....and being involved with several attempts at providing a value, for services (in this case it's just your time)....Hour of babysitting for an hour of yard work.....always seem to benefit the organizers.

So, if a whole new (good one "new") method of commerce is forced into use....there will be some growing pains.....

[LowKey]

I picked up a smallish book at Sturbridge Village on the history of the Country Store in the 1800s.
Most of the smallish country stores worked on barter because no one really had hard cash in the outer villages.

You're missing the whole second part of the transaction...
When bartering the idea is not to run out of goods to barter.

For instance, You as a shopkeeper have bolts of linen (any thinking of stockpiling that???). You got the linen in Boston and it cost you cash.
But the lady who walked into your store just now only has a basket of eggs, a pot of stove ashes and an old worn shirt that belonged to her man.
You trade her the bolt of linen for those items. You take them into Boston where people pay money for the eggs (fresh produce has to be trucked into the city), they take the ashes to make lye (may pay you or trade you for them) and you take the old shirt, a rag, to the paper maker, who also gives you cash as all paper then was made from cotton rag.

With the money you buy more linen. Or perhaps some tin stock. Or iron ingots. Or whatever you think your townspeople will trade for.

It was an interesting compact little book. It also described how some of the store keepers ledgers showed them being easy on those they knew couldn't pay, as long as they made an effort and were good people.

Don't look at bartering as a one way street.

[LowKey]

The other thing the book mentioned was notes.
Notes were drawn on trades.
For instance you have a cow. You sell it to me but I only pay you with a prommisory note, like a check, drawn on money I have in a bank, which may be in Boston. Or it may be against a future acquisition of mine, say a draft horse foal I expect next breeding season, that I will trade for your cow today. You could then use that prommisory note as cash, signing it over to someone else just like you'd sign over a check.

I don't believe we'll ever fall down to a total Barter-only society. Things would have to get really bad and a lot of people would have to vanish. A monetary system of some kind, even if it is locally based would probably be worked out pretty quick.

And you need to forget what you actually paid for something. If things get bad enough, even a worn out but serviceable item will be worth its weight in something you might need. I don't say gold. I think collecting gold will be the least of your worries.

[Wildthang]

I picked up a smallish book at Sturbridge Village on the history of the Country Store in the 1800s.
Most of the smallish country stores worked on barter because no one really had hard cash in the outer villages.

You're missing the whole second part of the transaction...
When bartering the idea is not to run out of goods to barter.

For instance, You as a shopkeeper have bolts of linen (any thinking of stockpiling that???). You got the linen in Boston and it cost you cash.
But the lady who walked into your store just now only has a basket of eggs, a pot of stove ashes and an old worn shirt that belonged to her man.
You trade her the bolt of linen for those items. You take them into Boston where people pay money for the eggs (fresh produce has to be trucked into the city), they take the ashes to make lye (may pay you or trade you for them) and you take the old shirt, a rag, to the paper maker as all paper then was made from cotton rag.

With the money you buy more linen.


It was an interesting compact little book. It also described how some of the store keepers ledgers showed them being easy on those they knew couldn't pay, as long as they made an effort and were good people.

Don't look at bartering as a one way street.

There in lies the problem LK! I really don't know how to look at it because I have never bartered. And there a probably about 2.8 billion more US citizens that don't know either. Now I am an intelligent person and I figure that if I start bartering enough, I will learn pretty quick. But in doing my research, it suddenly dawned on me that there seems to be rules and methods for almost anything on the internet, except for how to place value on bartered items. Then I realized that there are so many more emotions connected to bartering than simply going out and buying things that you need.
I just find it all very interesting! I have finally found something that cannot be quantified:scared:

[Sam]

There in lies the problem LK! I really don't know how to look at it because I have never bartered. And there a probably about 2.8 billion more US citizens that don't know either. Now I am an intelligent person and I figure that if I start bartering enough, I will learn pretty quick. But in doing my research, it suddenly dawned on me that there seems to be rules and methods for almost anything on the internet, except for how to place value on bartered items. Then I realized that there are so many more emotions connected to bartering than simply going out and buying things that you need.
I just find it all very interesting! I have finally found something that cannot be quantified:scared:

I have found that women cannot be quantified.
-Sam

[Wildthang]

I have found that women cannot be quantified.
-Sam

I use the following method, they are either good, or not worth the trouble:smartass:

[LowKey]

There are no real rules to bartering, other than trying to reach an amicable agreement at the end of it.
An object has the value it has that day. It may have greater value tomorrow.
Especially if two or more people want the same item and you only have one.
Then it becomes an auction. LOL.
Or tomorrow it could have a lesser value when someone finds a whole storage unit full of them.

[kyratshooter]

I have worked out of the same type journels as above and notes were the key to the barter transaction. One reason was because a great deal of the "barter" was actually done as swapping work. I work a day for you and you come work a day for me.

All that "community effort" at the barn raising was not a freebee, they kept careful records of labor owed in the community.

They also had a "standard" of trade. A dozen eggs was worth a specific amount that did not change from day to day. A pound of butter was worth a set ammount. One did not renegotiate the value of these items on each trip to the store.

Haggling was done when the item in question was a variable, like a horse in good, bad or fair condition, state of training and age. Most other items were of set value, take it or leave it.

There was very little cash/currency until around 1830 when our free market economy fully developed. Until then almost every transaction involved some forme of barter. This presented a real problem when buying/transfering land because the government required payment for all that "cheap land" in gold coin, not eggs, butter or cheese. Since the concentration of coins gravitated to the end of the barter chain the ability to purchase land also flowed into the hands af a specific group at the top of the barter column, doctors, lawyers and poiliticians, who became land speculators.

Going back to a barter economy would repeat that proces after a couple of years, with the most valuable goods in the hands of people that provided REQUIRED SERVICES who could demand immidiate payment in the most valuable substance on hand. It always has done so.

The trader becomes an intermediary in the transactions of the common people, but the craftsman/professional establishes a seperate economy based on value of his service that sets themselves apart from the common man.

All good wives were expected to sew simple clothing for their families. However there were certain items that were usually beyond their abilities, like a coat/vest for the man of the house. Those items required a tailor who set a higher value on the coat/vest. Since no self respecting man would be seen in his shirt sleeves (the shirt was considered underwear) each man of means was required to pay the price of the tailor to be properly dressed.

Same with the blacksmith, tanner, weaver doctor, lawyer or minister. Those people took themselves out of the production chain, producing a necessary service of product which they established a price (often in commodities) based on the ability of the community to pay. That price for service remained the same over long periods of time.

The trick to survivng the barter system is to have an ability no one else has. Evertually the supply of everything will run out or be replaced. Then you are as borke as the next guy. All that stuff you horded will be worthless because barter is pure supply and demand, not "theory of the apocolipse". You will be surprised at what people can do without, that you thought was an absolute necessity, in a crisis.

If I can make a knife I am not going to buy your ready made knife at the rediculious prices you anticipate. In fact, there will be a lot of folks running around with table knives sharpened on a rock and "shives" rather than trading for the Moras you bought in bulk. Neither are they going to spend any excess money on a fine "custom" knife. Only the wealthy will desire those items and they will not demand many of them.

There will be a lot of people paying top dollar for items like chain, tools, garden tools, services of converting gas powered machinery to hand power. a woman that can sew will be worht her weigth in eggs and butter, and needles and thread will be in tremendous demand! How many people do you know that are stockpiling sewing thread?

And as always down through history, medical skills, legal decisions (the first thing every community established was a court) and someone to say prayers over the dead and preform marriages and religious services will be demanded. Those are not luxuries in time of crisis, they are necessities.

[randyt]

at the risk of it being taken wrong there was "made beaver" or simply MB.

[Wildthang]

at the risk of it being taken wrong there was "made beaver" or simply MB.

Whut huh:confused:

[randyt]

LOL, at a hudson bay trading post, one large prime beaver hide was worth five MB. A specific number of mb where applied to items for trade.

[hunter63]

When my GF passed away....many years ago, DM found a couple of ledgers from his days as owner of a store, during the 1920-30's.
Had many entries involving eggs and butter traded, and credit extended and items traded.
Seems shoes were a biggy, as well as lamp oil.....even though there was electric service.

Final total show him owed over 30 thousand dollars at 1930's prices..... that were never collected.

[kyratshooter]

at the risk of it being taken wrong there was "made beaver" or simply MB.

Exactly Randy. The commodity had a set value in goods or services. That value was established and was the same for each person.

Beaver pelts were transferred on the books as if they were money of set value, so was tobacco, pounds of cotton, deerhides, tallow, lumber and most other rescources.

Need to borrow 5 bucks?

That is a measure of established barter value that is still with our culture to this day.

One of the reasons our "probate system" developed was the need for time to settle the accounts in barter owed each man's estate after his death. Those ledger books and journals were considered part of the estate and the debts were still owed to the estate. Often it took years to settle and at the minimum it would take until the next crop came in.

[Wildthang]

So it sounds like the old timers had bartering down to a fine art, but if we suddenly had to go on a bartering system today, nobody would know what anything is worth, or very few! I think it would be mass hysteria until values were established!
For instance, a guy pulls up with 3 kids in the back of his truck, and wants to trade you his only gun and 3 boxes of ammo for enough to feed his kids just one meal. Obviously the gun is worth more than 2 cans of spam and a can of pineapple, so do you trade knowing you are leaving him defensless. I guess at that point it is all up to him to decide, but wouldn;t you be tempted to just give him some food, or would you take advantage of his situation. It seems to me to be something more than what things are worth. Or am I just overthinking all of this?
Or does it simply depend on how bad something is needed, and true value means nothing?

[Wildthang]

LOL, at a hudson bay trading post, one large prime beaver hide was worth five MB. A specific number of mb where applied to items for trade.

OK Randy, Made beavers had my head spinning for a while there:scared:

[randyt]

in my opinion the value of something is dependent on many factors. What I may consider valuable may not be to somebody else. Under the right conditions if I had a axe and you wanted to trade a ounce of gold to me for it but I needed the axe I would not trade. If I had surpluses that would be a different story.

[Wildthang]

in my opinion the value of something is dependent on many factors. What I may consider valuable may not be to somebody else. Under the right conditions if I had a axe and you wanted to trade a ounce of gold to me for it but I needed the axe I would not trade. If I had surpluses that would be a different story.

There you go buddy! It is much more complex than just going out and buting what you want, and it makes things change in relative value compared to what we are used to. Normally an ounce of gold would buy half a pickup full of axes!

[randyt]

Sometimes when trading other items will be thrown in as boot. I traded a old beat truck for a anvil and a 30-40 krag. At that time the truck may have been worth 250 to 300 bucks. I needed a anvil though, the rifle was boot.

[BornthatWay]

I thinl that if you are bartering with someone who has a store for you to get things from a specific value may be ste for trade. If you are trading with your neighbor because hw has a female milk calf and you only have bull valves and need to have a milk cow there is going to be a totally differnt type of bartering going on as he may need a bull calf to brred his cows with or want the bull calf to castrate so he can raise it strictly for meat. So the two of you may agree on an even trade or he may want more for the young female calf as she has value for many years so you might have3 to throw in some chickens or something else in order for the trade to occurr. Individual barter will always be something only between the two people each needing what the other has to trade where as the sho keeper has to accept the same value from each person or people will think they are being cheated unless they want the shop keepers goods very badly.

[hunter63]

Just the word "Buck", basiclly ment one buck hide.....(or at least that is my understanding).
Getting up a "Grub stake" or "stake", came for small trees that were cut with part of the root ball on them..(grubbed out of the ground) used to "pin" rafts of logs or lumber when being floated on a lake or river to the mill or market.

A land owner could cut a bunch of them and each had a value, to trade for your "grub stake"(cash) to go gold mining, or travel accross the country.

[kyratshooter]

See, we have all these terms left over from that era of barter and everyone knew exactly what the value of the item in question was.

If someone tried to change the expected value of the item the trade went elsewhere. Folks often traveled hundreds of miles to get the best price for their furs, goods or produce. In my area the trip down the Ohio/Mississippi Rivers to Natchez Mississippi and back was a rite of passage for all young men. Even Abe Lincoln made the trip a couple of times, all the way to New Orleans.

It is therefore impossible to determine what the "value" of an item is in a barter situation until the local barter economy has stablized and established accepted values. (How much did Apple Computer stock grow over the years and how much did Facebook stock fall in a few hours?)

If we try to establish a "value" today for a SHTF anticipated need we might find ourselves in possession of a whole bunch of worthless crap. After an initial die off of the population there will be a severely reduced demand for items we think would be of value; Mora knives, ammo, MREs.

WHY?

Because everyone that is still alive already has what they needed to stay alive!

Hunter, other reenactors, and I see this at Rondys all the time. Traders will arrive with a tent full of fantastic wares including everything needed for the proper primitive camp, then they go home frustrated because no one bought anything!

WHY?

Because we bought that stuff 20 years ago and it never wears out! The flatlanders do not want or need it and the school kids can not haul it out on the buss that brought them. The traders wind up concentrating on the sale of pretty rocks on a string, wind chimes and toy flutes (I hate those things!).

In that light, the guy with the storage unit full of toilet paper may rule the world!!!

UNTIL HIS SUPPLY RUNS OUT!!!

If I were going to pack away trade items long term it would be asprin, tylinol, bandaids and any kind of powdered antibiotic I could find, not for direct trade but to augment medical knowledge that would make healer the top of the social heap. If you can sew up a cut, dig out a bullet or give a heart attack victem a 50/50 chance of survival you will be the end person in the barter chain.

That is where you want to be, not the middle or the bottom, trying to keep enough of this, that, and the other to stay in business or have a reserve. You want to be the guy that says everyone in town owes me for services and they can't kill me so they will not have to pay cause I deliver the babies and fix the broken bones, preform the weddings, bury their dead, counsel them in hardship, make wure their wills are correct, write deeds for transfer of property and run the courts when some evil is done.

As I stated before, doctors, lawyers and ministers were the top of the ladder in a barter economy all the way back through history. No one can steal your training to serve in those capacities, no one can burn the stash and your knowledge is transportable anywhere.

[crashdive123]

When my GF passed away....many years ago, DM found a couple of ledgers from his days as owner of a store, during the 1920-30's.
Had many entries involving eggs and butter traded, and credit extended and items traded.
Seems shoes were a biggy, as well as lamp oil.....even though there was electric service.

Final total show him owed over 30 thousand dollars at 1930's prices..... that were never collected.

While he was owed a lot of money, I'll bet he was very rich where it mattered.

[LowKey]

Krat, you're giving it all away. LOL.

I think you and I have all done a lot of the same research.

The use of the linen example wasn't by accident. ;)

[mountainmark]

Good thread, and food for thought!

[kyratshooter]

Krat, you're giving it all away. LOL.

I think you and I have all done a lot of the same research.

The use of the linen example wasn't by accident. ;)

I have spent hours pouring over cargo manifests, store inventories, from France, Spain, England and Germany, shipped to North America during the 18th century. It is often amazing what was considered essential and the items that are totally absent from the inventories.

The most revealing are the estate inventories and wills of pioneers that died. They lived a SHTF life from birth to death and what they considered valuable is a lesson for us.

I found one letter to the supplier complaining that the "muskets" sent were not satisfactory since surplus military gear was not wanted and could not be sold! No one would buy them. Even on the frontier the people would not just take anything that was shoved in front of them! They were very picky and knew the value of their goods and labor.

In most cases they considered their clothing the most valuable of all their possessions. They often passed their clothing down through the generations. They would give a greatcoat to one child, a suit to another, a good cloak to a third. Right behind the clothing in respect and value was their "bedding" such as blankets, feather ticks and comforters and the bedsteads.

Cast iron was also passed down through the family but they usually did not have a great deal of it. A dutch oven, big pot and sheet metal skillet were often the only cooking gear for a whole household.

A craftsman considered his tools essential and usually passed them to a son or to his apprintace (who was often a son-in-law), keeping the craft and its money making potential inside the family. In the same way, doctors, lawyers and ministers tended to keep the skills inside family lines, controlling the education and certification processes closely. Very few outsiders broke into those fields.

[Rick]

The value of any item is the amount the buyer is willing to pay to acquire it and the amount the seller sets on it. If both agree on the price then it's sold. The same is true of bartering. There can not be set amounts assigned in a SHTF situation because everyone's needs will be somewhat different based on their specific scenario and how badly you want to acquire or get rid of something. If you have a pig and you agree to trade it to me for 20 chickens then the price of a pig is 20 chickens and the price of chickens is a pig. But only for that transaction. The next guy you run into might want a pig bad enough to trade 30 chickens and he happens to have 200 hundred chickens where I only had 50. So his transaction is less costly for him than it was for me even though he "paid" more chickens. He only paid 15% of his chickens where I paid 40% of mine.

Or you might trade that pig to me for a days worth of splitting wood. Now the cost of a pig is a days work at splitting wood and a days work at splitting wood is a pig. By the way, that better be a da**ed good pig if you expect me to split wood. It better be able to dance or something.

[kyratshooter]

Rick, it seems you also have been taken in by the lack of modern experience with the barter system as the sole form of transfer.

As well as an inflated sense of your own labor in the transaction.

Why would you feel the value of a day of wood splitting, which any dufus can do, would be worth the same as an item that would feed an entire family for two weeks?

In barter situation one would expect no more for a day of labor than the food needed to sustain the family for that single day.

Unless the service was something no one else could provide! That has been the core theme of this thread. Anyone can split wood, anyone can dig a ditch, one might have to dig a bunch of ditch to pay for legal representation. Even today most lawyers want 20% or more as fee in a suit, or get a set fee per billing hour. If you are in a property dispute the lawyer might require 20% of the land as his fee! That is how Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, Andrew Jackson and most other attorneys acquired their wealth "back in the day".

I am not going to kill a hog that I raised for a year and take it to market if I am not certain of the price I will obtain. Neither am I going to take a lower price for eggs today than I got for them yesterday. I will eat the pig myself or let a hen sit on the egss and hatch them before I take less than their value, and I will know their value!

To keep a barter system going requires standardization of prices after a short period of initial detirmination of value. For a while the prices will varry from trade to trade, but will soon settle into a system of known trade value.

Even today we trade based on a standard. I just bought a vehicle and I researched the deal for several weeks, then went into the trade knowing the value of the item and how much I should pay as fair price according to the standards of my area. In turn, the car I sell will be valued using the same set of values I used to buy another. If I can not get fair price I will not sell, just as I would have never paid too much when I purchased. It may be given to a family member or a real good deal cut for a friend, but I will be aware of the true value of the item even if no money changes hands. Additionally, that friend or family member will be held accountable by way of "owing me big time"!

[Wildthang]

So, I guess if we are ever forced to use a bartering system, at first it will just be based on how bad you want an item, and how much you are willing to give for it, untill some kind of standardized system has been aquired. Boy some people are going to get taken to the cleaner during that period! And the people with skills will have it made. Heck, maybe it won't be so bad after all!

[kyratshooter]

That is exactly what history tells us will happen on each and every point. What we are discussing is not something that has never happened before. It has been repeated over and over throughout history. The very existance of writing and math are proof that record keeping and standardization was esential in any barter system.

Just like Randy stated in the MB post, standards always developed. I can show you the conversion charts on the value of deer skins as standard of trade for several years. One deerhide was worth a specif amount of beads, a certain type knife, a specific hatchet, and that value was uniform all through the frintier. In many cases the government set the value to insure economic stability and prevent price gouging.

It is one of the reasons practical skills like blacksmithing, welding, plumbing carpentry, sewing and medical skill are so important to any "prepper". They count for much more in the long term situation hand how many K-rounds of ammo you have in the bunker.

It is also why hard copies of specific books need to be in each prep list, not only first aid and plant ID, but also Blackstone's law comentary, old volunes of the state law codes, Gray's Anatomy and Strongs Concordance or Biblical references. I want to insure that i have the knowledge to keep me somewhere near the top of the social order and a couple of back up skills if that does not pan out.

And being a "hired gun" was never a well liked trade once the feudal system fell. As soon as the need for your services is over you are expected to move along. We will leave that aspect to the likes of "Gunkid", pushing his assualt wheelborrow through life.

[hunter63]

I'm sure the smart and strong will survive, and thrive, the not so smart and the weak, will have harder time of it......as always.
Once status quo is reshuffled, the new order will begin to take effect.

[wtrfwlr]

I've swapped, bartered, horse traded about all my adult life. Being a struggling business owner and quite frankly never having much in the way of cash on hand (as in never rich) it was the only way to make it. A few lessons learned.....EVERYTHING is for sale! Anything is only worth what another man will pay/trade for it. I have bartered labor, goods, food, vehicles you name it. Heck, I've even clean fish and pluck ducks on the halves and do real well!

A good deal or trade is when both fellers walk away thinking that they got the better end of the stick. There have been times when I could have really taken advantage of someone or gouged the heck out of them cause I was the only game in town or had the only this or that to be had, much like the 'food' hypothetical that was above, but didn't. That is when you have to let your conscious be your guide and prove to no one but yourself what kind of person you really are. Do you take advantage of a situation at hand or do you do the "right" thing? How do you decide? Well, what I do is to remind myself when I lay down at night and close my eyes......it's just me in there with me.

[Rick]

Holey CRAP!!!!! It was an example. Not meant to be an actual exchange of fair value. Just an example. (walks off mumbling. The boy missed the bus every day. I'm sure of it.)

And not everyone can split wood. I couldn't split wood if my life depended on it. No shoulders. That's right, I was born with arms attached to my body and no shoulders. I'm a lot like T Rex. So put that in your pipe and smoke it. (I'm tellin' you he missed the bus...a lot)

[randyt]

I'm curious, is there a difference between bartering and trading?

[Rick]

Yes. Bartering is exchanging things of value. Trading doesn't have to require the items have value. Sorta like trading KYrat to some other forum for a first round draft pick to be named at a later date.

[randyt]

I think there has been a blend of these two methods in this thread.

For what it's worth, a stack of beaver hides, stacked to the height of a north west trade gun was considered equal payment for said rifle.

[wtrfwlr]

I'ma thinkin maybe I missed more than just the bus? I can't split wood either though, for whatever that's worth.

[randyt]

youse guys need to think in terms of muscle over hydraulics.

[randyt]

Speaking of contracts, I recently came across a contract written up by my great granddad at the turn of the last century. It was a lease for a piece of ground. I must say for a guy that didn't go past elementary school it was well written.

[kyratshooter]

Sorry fellas, but the the list of forums that would trade for me is getting more slim daily. Mayhap you could do a blind swap, but most anything you do will have a backlash effect, meaning if you trade me for a first round pick no other forum would ever bring business back your way again. That is also part of how barter works.

You would have to trade me and Sarge both and possibly throw in Ms B, and make sure the first round pick is void of keyboard skills and in a vegitative state so as not to ruffle any feathers.

[hunter63]

I think there has been a blend of these two methods in this thread.

For what it's worth, a stack of beaver hides, stacked to the height of a north west trade gun was considered equal payment for said rifle.

Ah, so THAT's why the barrels are so long......

It seems we have drifted into "the fantasy forum" realm.....Draft picks and trades and such....OMG.....

[Rick]

Hmmmm. You and Sarge. I mean, naw, I was just foolin' around. We wouldn't trade you. Definitely not Mrs. B....you AND Sarge......I wonder.

[crashdive123]

Rick - I tried - all I got was some under the breath comments about a curmudgeon - what ever that is. Oh, and this....

http://www.smithcasey.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/no-sale.jpg

[kyratshooter]

There is the consideration that if you got rid of all three the forum would have no control, conscience or connection to reality!

I probably went overboard on this topic but it is an area I have spent a great deal of time and expense researching. Most of that research was the way order developed out of what everyone considers a chaotic system.

I will start a PHD program in a couple of years and this topic might be the theme of my disertation.

[hunter63]

All this trade talk, and draft picks, and such....sheesh....I guess the only thing that stays the same is change..........

[Wildthang]

Well brothers, I am certainly glad I posted this thread, and I think I have learned a lot. It has also confirmed my suspicions that when and if the US enters a forced bartering system, chaod will insue until the standards have been set, and as I suspected, there are no ground rules that we know of. Luckily I am an engineer, electrician, mechanic, carpenter, and a plumber, so if I can only get a Law degree I can scr*w many people like a house cat:scared:
Only kidding on the housecat! But I do have a lot of useful skills, and a lot of tools to go with it. You know I have been reading about world food supplies, and the fiscal cliff that is supposed to happen in 2013, and depending on many variables, we could be into a bartering system within 5 years by my estimation. And it is a little scary to think about what average people with no skills, no preps, and no clue will do when that day comes!

[kyratshooter]

And it is a little scary to think about what average people with no skills, no preps, and no clue will do when that day comes!

They are docile Americans. If they were not there would have already been a serious revolution.

In the absense of natural disaster or man made catastrophe the majority will sit at home waiting to see what happens. Normal services will shut down with the lack of cash. They will wait until they have pawned everything they own, the power goes out, the water is shut off, garbage pickup has haulted the stink of city and suburb becomes overwhelming and disease begins running through the population. By the time they decide to get out of town there will be no gas in the car, if they still have a car.

Sort of like Detroit!

[Wildthang]

They are docile Americans. If they were not there would have already been a serious revolution.

In the absense of natural disaster or man made catastrophe the majority will sit at home waiting to see what happens. Normal services will shut down with the lack of cash. They will wait until they have pawned everything they own, the power goes out, the water is shut off, garbage pickup has haulted the stink of city and suburb becomes overwhelming and disease begins running through the population. By the time they decide to get out of town there will be no gas in the car, if they still have a car.

Sort of like Detroit!

Well Brother, I guess that's why they call them sheeple, seems to be a fitting name huh?

[BENESSE]

Life's a gamble. We all take chances with something or other and hope it works out in our favor. It's how it's always been and it's not gonna change.

[hunter63]

Well Brother, I guess that's why they call them sheeple, seems to be a fitting name huh?

For at intents and purposes....These will be the "Zombies" we hear so much about............

[Wildthang]

Life's a gamble. We all take chances with something or other and hope it works out in our favor. It's how it's always been and it's not gonna change.

You are absolutely right Nessie, but I am not going to take a chance on starving. I think being prepared is kind of like home owners insurance, you rarely use it, and you hope you never have to, but when something happens, you realize paying out all of that money was totally worth it. Don't you agree?

[Wildthang]

For at intents and purposes....These will be the "Zombies" we hear so much about............

You just may be right about that Hunter. The sheeple will probably be so hungry that they will voluntarily get bitten by zombies just to get out of their misery:scared:

[BENESSE]

You are absolutely right Nessie, but I am not going to take a chance on starving. I think being prepared is kind of like home owners insurance, you rarely use it, and you hope you never have to, but when something happens, you realize paying out all of that money was totally worth it. Don't you agree?

Agree.
But as I said many times before (here she goes again) if you don't include your health in your preps, you are taking chances.
All that investment is gonna do you squat if you get incapacited with a stroke or a heart attack.

[natertot]

Agree.
But as I said many times before (here she goes again) if you don't include your health in your preps, you are taking chances.
All that investment is gonna do you squat if you get incapacited with a stroke or a heart attack.

yep, that is why I am at the doc for a physical right now! The most complicated Thing bout prepping, is how do you really do it? Do you prepare for one event at a time, or multiple things at once and slowly build everything up? What is important to prep for and what is a waste of time?
It can get complicated!

[kyratshooter]

yep, that is why I am at the doc for a physical right now! The most complicated Thing bout prepping, is how do you really do it? Do you prepare for one event at a time, or multiple things at once and slowly build everything up? What is important to prep for and what is a waste of time?
It can get complicated!

I have found, and I believe Rick has constantly stated, that prep for one event is always transferable to another situation. I can prep for nuke blast and people will shake their heads and walk away calling me a fool. The same preps under the label of "tornado safety" is accepted and logical. Concrete walls, underground, a bit of food and some comfort items set by under the proper "label" serves a multitude of purposes.

We have strayed from the barter thread a bit,

I was just reminded that I have several friends that were laid off from their jobs and reverted to their backup skills to stay alive in the present economy. They have been in this situation for long enough for me to forget that they were engineers, accountants, line foremen and supervisors of factories in another life! Most are in that 50-65 age bracket where they will never find an equil position at equil pay. If it were not for their prior training in a variety of fields they would have gone completely under. Instead they scaled back and used what they had. Most are actually glad for the forced change as a motivation to be independant and self reliant. They had wanted a different life for years and this was their forced substitute for "running off to the wilderness".

They ran off to owning their own businesses and facing reality. Lots of members here have done the same.

Everyone is bartering time for money, only the form of money and what we do with the time changes.

[Wildthang]

Agree.
But as I said many times before (here she goes again) if you don't include your health in your preps, you are taking chances.
All that investment is gonna do you squat if you get incapacited with a stroke or a heart attack.

Nessie as usual you are absolutely right, so do you think I need to live a healthier life? I live a pretty healthy life aside from smoking, but have quit twice already and am going to quit for good as soon as the outage is over in this refinery! But I rarely drink and I do get plenty of excersize most of the time. Keeping up with 2 girls and a farm keeps me very busy on top of my crazy job! Well at least I dont have to worry about dying from boredom:scared:

[BENESSE]

Nessie as usual you are absolutely right, so do you think I need to live a healthier life? I live a pretty healthy life aside from smoking, but have quit twice already and am going to quit for good as soon as the outage is over in this refinery! But I rarely drink and I do get plenty of excersize most of the time. Keeping up with 2 girls and a farm keeps me very busy on top of my crazy job! Well at least I dont have to worry about dying from boredom:scared:

WT, if you're worried about dying from boredom if you quit smoking, what with 2 live-in girlfriends and the bikes I've glimpsed among your many toys, well, I'd count my luck but wouldn't want to push it.

[Wildthang]

WT, if you're worried about dying from boredom if you quit smoking, what with 2 live-in girlfriends and the bikes I've glimpsed among your many toys, well, I'd count my luck but wouldn't want to push it.

Well I have always been an adrenaline junkie, and I fear not living more than dying. When I ride my ZX-14 sportbike, and rip it to around 190 mph, it is dangerous of course, but that is when I feel most alive. It thrills me to control the near uncontrollable. But the older I get, the more careful I get when I do that. I always try to find the perfect road and I check everything out before I let it rip. When I wwas younger, I just let it rip and took my chances.
To me there is almost nothing as exhillerating as feeling all of that power propelling me to hyper speeds. But again, you never feel more alive than when you are facing possible vaporization:scared:

[BENESSE]

Well I have always been an adrenaline junkie, and I fear not living more than dying. When I ride my ZX-14 sportbike, and rip it to around 190 mph, it is dangerous of course, but that is when I feel most alive. It thrills me to control the near uncontrollable. But the older I get, the more careful I get when I do that. I always try to find the perfect road and I check everything out before I let it rip. When I wwas younger, I just let it rip and took my chances.
To me there is almost nothing as exhillerating as feeling all of that power propelling me to hyper speeds. But again, you never feel more alive than when you are facing possible vaporization:scared:

Let me float another possible vaporization scenario and you tell me how that one would make you feel: You're in a hospital room hooked up to all sorts of machines with one lung and a diaper on...in pain...grim prognosis for bouncing back. You can live like this for years. Long enough to reflect and wish you've changed a few things along the way. So much easier than what you're going through right now.
When people say, "I wanna live life to the fullest (read: don't want to give up bad habits) and die having lead an exciting life", they kinda skip over that vast and more probable middle of living a restricted life of pain and dependence. It's hardly ever either/or. Those stand out because there are so few of them.

[Wildthang]

Let me float another possible vaporization scenario and you tell me how that one would make you feel: You're in a hospital room hooked up to all sorts of machines with one lung and a diaper on...in pain...grim prognosis for bouncing back. You can live like this for years. Long enough to reflect and wish you've changed a few things along the way. So much easier than what you're going through right now.
When people say, "I wanna live life to the fullest (read: don't want to give up bad habits) and die having lead an exciting life", they kinda skip over that vast and more probable middle of living a restricted life of pain and dependence. It's hardly ever either/or. Those stand out because there are so few of them.

Nessie I am going to adopt you as my big sister, because before she passed on, she always told me the same things you do, and even the words you use remind me of her. But I am going to quit smoking in another 4 weeks, and try not to ever smoke again. But I cannot give up my bikes, especially the ZX-14, it is my favorite toy. But I am going to try to slow down a little when I ride.

Thanks for the advice!

[BENESSE]

That sounds like a good plan bro, and I'll be right behind you kicking you up if you happen to slide. I know you won't. :winkiss:

[Rick]

190 mph huh? Right. I'll bet you don't even wear a helmet at that speed.

[Wildthang]

190 mph huh? Right. I'll bet you don't even wear a helmet at that speed.

Well there is where you are wrong! I wear full kevlar padded gear, full face helmet, boots designed for racing, and gloves with kevlar knuckles. I can slide down the track at 100 mph and not get road rash!

[kyratshooter]

Well there is where you are wrong! I wear full kevlar padded gear, full face helmet, boots designed for racing, and gloves with kevlar knuckles. I can slide down the track at 100 mph and not get road rash!

But it's not the speed that kills you....

it's the sudden stop!

[crashdive123]

Having been in two motorcycle crashes in my life - while the road rash is bad, all of the broken bones were a bit uncomfortable too.

[Rick]

If you're going to run anything at 190 mph then safety gear is sort of an oxymoron. I chose that word very careful for it's symbolism by the way.

[Wildthang]

Well there is risk in everything you do, and I refuse to let fear keep me from doing things I love to do. I dont fear death, as much as I fear getting old and looking back at all the things I wish I had done, and never had the courage to do them.
I have been riding since I was 10 years old, and have never been seriously hurt on a motorcycle, but if it happens, I feel like I have been luckier than most already. My family use to take bets that I would never live past 20 years old and I fooled them.
But now that I am getting older, Iam much more cautious that I use to be. I only go fast on the perfect roads, and actually ride the road back and forth a couple of times to make sure there are no obstructions that would cause a wreck, or pot holes etc.
I do a full checkout on my bike before hand to assure it is in top shape, and if I get a bad feeling about anything I don't open her up. In my earlier years I was not near that cautious so I guess I am finally growing up at 50 years old:scared:

[Wildthang]

If you're going to run anything at 190 mph then safety gear is sort of an oxymoron. I chose that word very careful for it's symbolism by the way.

Yeah thanks Rick, insult acknowledged!

[hunter63]

Well there is risk in everything you do, and I refuse to let fear keep me from doing things I love to do. I dont fear death, as much as I fear getting old and looking back at all the things I wish I had done, and never had the courage to do them.
I have been riding since I was 10 years old, and have never been seriously hurt on a motorcycle, but if it happens, I feel like I have been luckier than most already. My family use to take bets that I would never live past 20 years old and I fooled them.
But now that I am getting older, Iam much more cautious that I use to be. I only go fast on the perfect roads, and actually ride the road back and forth a couple of times to make sure there are no obstructions that would cause a wreck, or pot holes etc.
I do a full checkout on my bike before hand to assure it is in top shape, and if I get a bad feeling about anything I don't open her up. In my earlier years I was not near that cautious so I guess I am finally growing up at 50 years old:scared:

I think it's just you figure out that the older you get...... recovery time is longer......Growing up will never happen.

[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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инфо (http://habeascorpus.ru)инфо (http://habituate.ru)инфо (http://hackedbolt.ru)инфо (http://hackworker.ru)инфо (http://hadronicannihilation.ru)инфо (http://haemagglutinin.ru)инфо (http://hailsquall.ru)инфо (http://hairysphere.ru)инфо (http://halforderfringe.ru)инфо (http://halfsiblings.ru)инфо (http://hallofresidence.ru)инфо (http://haltstate.ru)инфо (http://handcoding.ru)инфо (http://handportedhead.ru)инфо (http://handradar.ru)
инфо (http://handsfreetelephone.ru)инфо (http://hangonpart.ru)инфо (http://haphazardwinding.ru)инфо (http://hardalloyteeth.ru)инфо (http://hardasiron.ru)инфо (http://hardenedconcrete.ru)инфо (http://harmonicinteraction.ru)инфо (http://hartlaubgoose.ru)инфо (http://hatchholddown.ru)инфо (http://haveafinetime.ru)инфо (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru)инфо (http://headregulator.ru)инфо (http://heartofgold.ru)инфо (http://heatageingresistance.ru)инфо (http://heatinggas.ru)
инфо (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru)инфо (http://jacketedwall.ru)инфо (http://japanesecedar.ru)инфо (http://jibtypecrane.ru)инфо (http://jobabandonment.ru)инфо (http://jobstress.ru)инфо (http://jogformation.ru)инфо (http://jointcapsule.ru)инфо (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru)инфо (http://journallubricator.ru)инфо (http://juicecatcher.ru)инфо (http://junctionofchannels.ru)инфо (http://justiciablehomicide.ru)инфо (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru)инфо (http://kaposidisease.ru)
инфо (http://keepagoodoffing.ru)инфо (http://keepsmthinhand.ru)инфо (http://kentishglory.ru)инфо (http://kerbweight.ru)инфо (http://kerrrotation.ru)инфо (http://keymanassurance.ru)инфо (http://keyserum.ru)инфо (http://kickplate.ru)инфо (http://killthefattedcalf.ru)инфо (http://kilowattsecond.ru)инфо (http://kingweakfish.ru)инйо (http://kinozones.ru)инфо (http://kleinbottle.ru)инфо (http://kneejoint.ru)инфо (http://knifesethouse.ru)
инфо (http://knockonatom.ru)инфо (http://knowledgestate.ru)инфо (http://kondoferromagnet.ru)инфо (http://labeledgraph.ru)инфо (http://laborracket.ru)инфо (http://labourearnings.ru)инфо (http://labourleasing.ru)инфо (http://laburnumtree.ru)инфо (http://lacingcourse.ru)инфо (http://lacrimalpoint.ru)инфо (http://lactogenicfactor.ru)инфо (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru)инфо (http://ladletreatediron.ru)инфо (http://laggingload.ru)инфо (http://laissezaller.ru)
инфо (http://lambdatransition.ru)инфо (http://laminatedmaterial.ru)инфо (http://lammasshoot.ru)инфо (http://lamphouse.ru)инфо (http://lancecorporal.ru)инфо (http://lancingdie.ru)инфо (http://landingdoor.ru)инфо (http://landmarksensor.ru)инфо (http://landreform.ru)инфо (http://landuseratio.ru)инфо (http://languagelaboratory.ru)инфо (http://largeheart.ru)инфо (http://lasercalibration.ru)инфо (http://laserlens.ru)инфо (http://laserpulse.ru)

[yellowcab]

инфо (http://laterevent.ru)инфо (http://latrinesergeant.ru)инфо (http://layabout.ru)инфо (http://leadcoating.ru)инфо (http://leadingfirm.ru)инфо (http://learningcurve.ru)инфо (http://leaveword.ru)инфо (http://machinesensible.ru)инфо (http://magneticequator.ru)инфо (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru)инфо (http://mailinghouse.ru)инфо (http://majorconcern.ru)инфо (http://mammasdarling.ru)инфо (http://managerialstaff.ru)инфо (http://manipulatinghand.ru)
инфо (http://manualchoke.ru)инфо (http://medinfobooks.ru)инфо (http://mp3lists.ru)инфо (http://nameresolution.ru)инфо (http://naphtheneseries.ru)инфо (http://narrowmouthed.ru)инфо (http://nationalcensus.ru)инфо (http://naturalfunctor.ru)инфо (http://navelseed.ru)инфо (http://neatplaster.ru)инфо (http://necroticcaries.ru)инфо (http://negativefibration.ru)инфо (http://neighbouringrights.ru)инфо (http://objectmodule.ru)инфо (http://observationballoon.ru)
инфо (http://obstructivepatent.ru)инфо (http://oceanmining.ru)инфо (http://octupolephonon.ru)инфо (http://offlinesystem.ru)инфо (http://offsetholder.ru)инфо (http://olibanumresinoid.ru)инфо (http://onesticket.ru)инфо (http://packedspheres.ru)инфо (http://pagingterminal.ru)инфо (http://palatinebones.ru)инфо (http://palmberry.ru)инфо (http://papercoating.ru)инфо (http://paraconvexgroup.ru)инфо (http://parasolmonoplane.ru)инфо (http://parkingbrake.ru)
инфо (http://partfamily.ru)инфо (http://partialmajorant.ru)инфо (http://quadrupleworm.ru)инфо (http://qualitybooster.ru)инфо (http://quasimoney.ru)инфо (http://quenchedspark.ru)инфо (http://quodrecuperet.ru)инфо (http://rabbetledge.ru)инфо (http://radialchaser.ru)инфо (http://radiationestimator.ru)инфо (http://railwaybridge.ru)инфо (http://randomcoloration.ru)инфо (http://rapidgrowth.ru)инфо (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru)инфо (http://reachthroughregion.ru)
инфо (http://readingmagnifier.ru)инфо (http://rearchain.ru)инфо (http://recessioncone.ru)инфо (http://recordedassignment.ru)инфо (http://rectifiersubstation.ru)инфо (http://redemptionvalue.ru)инфо (http://reducingflange.ru)инфо (http://referenceantigen.ru)инфо (http://regeneratedprotein.ru)инфо (http://reinvestmentplan.ru)инфо (http://safedrilling.ru)инфо (http://sagprofile.ru)инфо (http://salestypelease.ru)инфо (http://samplinginterval.ru)инфо (http://satellitehydrology.ru)
инфо (http://scarcecommodity.ru)инфо (http://scrapermat.ru)инфо (http://screwingunit.ru)инфо (http://seawaterpump.ru)инфо (http://secondaryblock.ru)инфо (http://secularclergy.ru)инфо (http://seismicefficiency.ru)инфо (http://selectivediffuser.ru)инфо (http://semiasphalticflux.ru)инфо (http://semifinishmachining.ru)инфо (http://spicetrade.ru)инфо (http://spysale.ru)инфо (http://stungun.ru)инфо (http://tacticaldiameter.ru)инфо (http://tailstockcenter.ru)
инфо (http://tamecurve.ru)инфо (http://tapecorrection.ru)инфо (http://tappingchuck.ru)инфо (http://taskreasoning.ru)инфо (http://technicalgrade.ru)инфо (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)инфо (http://telescopicdamper.ru)инфо (http://temperateclimate.ru)инфо (http://temperedmeasure.ru)инфо (http://tenementbuilding.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)инфо (http://ultramaficrock.ru)инфо (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)

[yellowcab]

чтен (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/8698)135.2 (http://cottagenet.ru/plan/214)напи (http://eyesvision.ru)CHAP (http://eyesvisions.com)Hall (http://factoringfee.ru/t/1110289)Санк (http://filmzones.ru/t/836549)Ожег (http://gadwall.ru/t/819256)Haji (http://gaffertape.ru/t/887775)Denn (http://gageboard.ru/t/935403)Ку�н (http://gagrule.ru/t/786785)укра (http://gallduct.ru/t/1151952)Соде (http://galvanometric.ru/t/750056)Стра (http://gangforeman.ru/t/848163)неуг (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/1083464)�рти (http://garbagechute.ru/t/1143579)
Thom (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/845435)simp (http://gascautery.ru/t/1143275)З�ЙЦ (http://gashbucket.ru/t/481609)�рти (http://gasreturn.ru/t/1143562)Коль (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/596372)окру (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/1160947)Wind (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/1152319)More (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/920971)Tesc (http://geartreating.ru/t/860160)Март (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/820919)Иллю (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/813808)XVII (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/772480)Швар (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/831183)реда (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/830647)�тол (http://getthebounce.ru/t/338384)
Ð*ыжо (http://habeascorpus.ru/t/1050552)Inte (http://habituate.ru/t/1089358)Добр (http://hackedbolt.ru/t/672115)Jack (http://hackworker.ru/t/1083514)Bala (http://hadronicannihilation.ru/t/1100799)Соде (http://haemagglutinin.ru/t/1049165)вузо (http://hailsquall.ru/t/675702)Коле (http://hairysphere.ru/t/785754)Mick (http://halforderfringe.ru/t/662411)XVII (http://halfsiblings.ru/t/811707)Port (http://hallofresidence.ru/t/572815)XIII (http://haltstate.ru/t/682155)Саль (http://handcoding.ru/t/924059)Tesc (http://handportedhead.ru/t/1028936)Belo (http://handradar.ru/t/563302)
ведь (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/753991)Arth (http://hangonpart.ru/t/810501)Jewe (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/566053)Kent (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/566171)�ерт (http://hardasiron.ru/t/567492)Миха (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/567963)Mons (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/628223)Мака (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/376400)Дека (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/624281)Курл (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/821229)Deny (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/634859)Соде (http://headregulator.ru/t/841258)��та (http://heartofgold.ru/t/1306196)�ерт (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/557558)Perm (http://heatinggas.ru/t/1183607)
Ð*азм (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/1181747)Pali (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/604234)Gior (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/607672)Ð�ВБы (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/671341)малы (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/620196)Wind (http://jobstress.ru/t/619581)Гупт (http://jogformation.ru/t/669407)Coll (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/1141472)Toda (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/1145320)Wolf (http://journallubricator.ru/t/847128)Oswa (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/892637)Unis (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/1179667)Holi (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/1016728)Ð�аво (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/852521)Rudy (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/849201)
Павл (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/831218)Zone (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/611204)Tove (http://kentishglory.ru/t/1058850)XVII (http://kerbweight.ru/t/912231)Zone (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/607780)хар- (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/610178)Eleg (http://keyserum.ru/t/1180208)Крон (http://kickplate.ru/t/679224)О�тр (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/785144)Swar (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/607616)Quan (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/642974)печа (http://kinozones.ru/film/8698)XVII (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/669621)MORG (http://kneejoint.ru/t/606739)Modo (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/1026589)
Zone (http://knockonatom.ru/t/608970)Иофф (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/670525)Малл (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/687469)Zone (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/1193675)Paul (http://laborracket.ru/t/832410)Disc (http://labourearnings.ru/t/1090484)Luka (http://labourleasing.ru/t/900811)Кита (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/1150836)Zone (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/1188147)Chet (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/1187357)Zone (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/1186149)мен� (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/1148909)Anna (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/837644)худо (http://laggingload.ru/t/859714)�лад (http://laissezaller.ru/t/1050322)
Robe (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/857239)Чиже (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/864141)XVII (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/1001968)зака (http://lamphouse.ru/t/1184325)Hele (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/999041)Буни (http://lancingdie.ru/t/846768)иллю (http://landingdoor.ru/t/851698)3005 (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/1184039)Side (http://landreform.ru/t/1086895)Покр (http://landuseratio.ru/t/1010508)Zone (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/1190383)пере (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1160033)паго (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/152079)RITM (http://laserlens.ru)Nouv (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/589243)

[yellowcab]

MABE (http://laterevent.ru/shop/1030746)Bosc (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/452976)Прои (http://layabout.ru/shop/99566)Seed (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/25343)�зык (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/101578)�ер� (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/271417)�рти (http://leaveword.ru/shop/145282)Ф�ки (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/107216)пла� (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/195588)Колп (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/145913)Best (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/69922)Renz (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/268241)VALG (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/158923)Robe (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/159274)Dick (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/613109)
комп (http://manualchoke.ru/shop/597465)живо (http://medinfobooks.ru/book/1982)Tech (http://mp3lists.ru/item/8698)Carl (http://nameresolution.ru/shop/144867)под� (http://naphtheneseries.ru/shop/104249)Crea (http://narrowmouthed.ru/shop/449030)тема (http://nationalcensus.ru/shop/176473)прав (http://naturalfunctor.ru/shop/23709)Drea (http://navelseed.ru/shop/100529)Hang (http://neatplaster.ru/shop/270905)Lear (http://necroticcaries.ru/shop/27434)Inte (http://negativefibration.ru/shop/178146)Bosc (http://neighbouringrights.ru/shop/98509)карт (http://objectmodule.ru/shop/108229)Redm (http://observationballoon.ru/shop/10079)
Rowe (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/98057)Hugo (http://oceanmining.ru/shop/1149636)Perf (http://octupolephonon.ru/shop/571786)ЛитÐ* (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/147467)ЛитÐ* (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/199617)200м (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/146761)Prok (http://onesticket.ru/shop/378832)ЛитÐ* (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/579234)WORD (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/646324)ЛитÐ* (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/201363)ЛитÐ* (http://palmberry.ru/shop/204553)XVII (http://papercoating.ru/shop/580390)ЛитÐ* (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/684643)Theo (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1165945)XVII (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1165998)
�еми (http://partfamily.ru/shop/1165013)Смир (http://partialmajorant.ru/shop/1167712)иллю (http://quadrupleworm.ru/shop/1295527)Моро (http://qualitybooster.ru/shop/178940)Иллю (http://quasimoney.ru/shop/593469)Jame (http://quenchedspark.ru/shop/593457)Vale (http://quodrecuperet.ru/shop/126336)Круг (http://rabbetledge.ru/shop/1070654)Мака (http://radialchaser.ru/shop/126200)Mikh (http://radiationestimator.ru/shop/173588)Егор (http://railwaybridge.ru/shop/342559)Andr (http://randomcoloration.ru/shop/510011)Supe (http://rapidgrowth.ru/shop/635242)Ефре (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru/shop/1037889)Alex (http://reachthroughregion.ru/shop/161098)
вида (http://readingmagnifier.ru/shop/176261)Mich (http://rearchain.ru/shop/350924)Sain (http://recessioncone.ru/shop/513223)Disn (http://recordedassignment.ru/shop/14664)74-1 (http://rectifiersubstation.ru/shop/1051455)Трон (http://redemptionvalue.ru/shop/1058723)Соде (http://reducingflange.ru/shop/1068406)Моро (http://referenceantigen.ru/shop/1692383)лите (http://regeneratedprotein.ru/shop/1217578)Глаз (http://reinvestmentplan.ru/shop/121249)�ови (http://safedrilling.ru/shop/1323672)Шайд (http://sagprofile.ru/shop/1043398)Форм (http://salestypelease.ru/shop/1064638)Дроб (http://samplinginterval.ru/shop/1407347)подр (http://satellitehydrology.ru/shop/1454909)
Деме (http://scarcecommodity.ru/shop/1433580)Коте (http://scrapermat.ru/shop/1454938)Мета (http://screwingunit.ru/shop/1488247)и�то (http://seawaterpump.ru/shop/172586)отли (http://secondaryblock.ru/shop/248980)Кро� (http://secularclergy.ru/shop/270338)унив (http://seismicefficiency.ru/shop/41365)лаби (http://selectivediffuser.ru/shop/54166)Swee (http://semiasphalticflux.ru/shop/398454)Мазу (http://semifinishmachining.ru/shop/172300)RITM (http://spicetrade.ru)RITM (http://spysale.ru)RITM (http://stungun.ru)Деме (http://tacticaldiameter.ru/shop/475445)Sava (http://tailstockcenter.ru/shop/488563)
Whet (http://tamecurve.ru/shop/82440)Фрид (http://tapecorrection.ru/shop/84031)Ð*езн (http://tappingchuck.ru/shop/484855)возр (http://taskreasoning.ru/shop/496642)Тамб (http://technicalgrade.ru/shop/1814912)увле (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru/shop/620412)внут (http://telescopicdamper.ru/shop/620112)Смир (http://temperateclimate.ru/shop/270872)Stra (http://temperedmeasure.ru/shop/398446)Ð�ико (http://tenementbuilding.ru/shop/948671)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)Коча (http://ultramaficrock.ru/shop/973617)Форм (http://ultraviolettesting.ru/shop/475911)

[yellowcab]

http://geartreating.ruhttp://hadronicannihilation.ruhttp://getintoaflap.ruhttp://gashbucket.ruhttp://scarcecommodity.ruhttp://kerrrotation.ruhttp://hailsquall.ruhttp://heavydutymetalcutting.ruhttp://hazardousatmosphere.ruhttp://mammasdarling.ruhttp://heatageingresistance.ruhttp://laborracket.ruhttp://kaposidisease.ruhttp://landuseratio.ruhttp://offlinesystem.ru
http://lacingcourse.ruhttp://semiasphalticflux.ruhttp://packedspheres.ruhttp://neatplaster.ruhttp://gaussianfilter.ruhttp://secularclergy.ruhttp://hardasiron.ruhttp://kleinbottle.ruhttp://cottagenet.ruhttp://laminatedmaterial.ruhttp://selectivediffuser.ruhttp://papercoating.ruhttp://objectmodule.ruhttp://jobstress.ruhttp://getthebounce.ru
http://gardeningleave.ruhttp://olibanumresinoid.ruhttp://temperedmeasure.ruhttp://readingmagnifier.ruhttp://quasimoney.ruhttp://reachthroughregion.ruhttp://haphazardwinding.ruhttp://hangonpart.ruhttp://eyesvision.ruhttp://naturalfunctor.ruhttp://landmarksensor.ruhttp://knifesethouse.ruhttp://heartofgold.ruhttp://satellitehydrology.ruhttp://gasreturn.ru
http://radialchaser.ruhttp://quadrupleworm.ruhttp://lactogenicfactor.ruhttp://haltstate.ruhttp://rabbetledge.ruhttp://latrinesergeant.ruhttp://juicecatcher.ruhttp://lacrimalpoint.ruhttp://jogformation.ruhttp://magneticequator.ruhttp://haemagglutinin.ruhttp://sagprofile.ruhttp://hatchholddown.ruhttp://samplinginterval.ruhttp://galvanometric.ru
http://seawaterpump.ruhttp://laserpulse.ruhttp://spysale.ruhttp://rattlesnakemaster.ruhttp://labourleasing.ruhttp://safedrilling.ruhttp://screwingunit.ruhttp://gaffertape.ruhttp://oceanmining.ruhttp://nationalcensus.ruhttp://keyserum.ruhttp://laterevent.ruhttp://journallubricator.ruhttp://gageboard.ruhttp://haveafinetime.ru
http://tapecorrection.ruhttp://railwaybridge.ruhttp://secondaryblock.ruhttp://layabout.ruhttp://landreform.ruhttp://taskreasoning.ruhttp://nameresolution.ruhttp://radiationestimator.ruhttp://knowledgestate.ruhttp://justiciablehomicide.ruhttp://halforderfringe.ruhttp://tappingchuck.ruhttp://gangforeman.ruhttp://manualchoke.ruhttp://knockonatom.ru
http://gagrule.ruhttp://ladletreatediron.ruhttp://gatedsweep.ruhttp://geophysicalprobe.ruhttp://languagelaboratory.ruhttp://keymanassurance.ruhttp://qualitybooster.ruhttp://necroticcaries.ruhttp://rearchain.ruhttp://largeheart.ruhttp://handcoding.ruhttp://hardenedconcrete.ruhttp://gaugemodel.ruhttp://rapidgrowth.ruhttp://lammasshoot.ru
http://kentishglory.ruhttp://gallduct.ruhttp://medinfobooks.ruhttp://harmonicinteraction.ruhttp://majorconcern.ruhttp://handradar.ruhttp://hardalloyteeth.ruhttp://jibtypecrane.ruhttp://laggingload.ruhttp://offsetholder.ruhttp://kneejoint.ruhttp://scrapermat.ruhttp://habituate.ruhttp://jointsealingmaterial.ruhttp://octupolephonon.ru

[yellowcab]

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