TS Can HTF Anyplace And Anytime

[crashdive123]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/20/several-reportedly-dead-injured-after-shooting-at-colorado-movie-theater/

Not a whole lot of details yet. In a tragedy like this I wonder if a trained, ccw holder was at the scene if the carnage could have been lessened. My thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and their families.

[Rick]

I can't even begin to image how someone comes to the conclusion something like this is the right course of action.

[BENESSE]

Mental illness. You can't rationalize it away any more than say, cancer. Unfortunately, people don't take it seriously until something catastrophic happens.

[wholsomback]

My heart felt regret goes out to those families.

[Solar Geek]

My DH and DD were at the Chicago premiere last night. This really hits home. Prayers for all.

[hunter63]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/20/several-reportedly-dead-injured-after-shooting-at-colorado-movie-theater/

Not a whole lot of details yet. In a tragedy like this I wonder if a trained, ccw holder was at the scene if the carnage could have been lessened. My thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and their families.

Also makes you wonder even if you were that person....able to stop someone like this....what kind of a world of carp would you be in just being involved, if you even lived?
Would you choose to get involved?

Sadly these people lost their live for no good reason.....none,.... My thoughts and prayers go out to them and their families.

[BENESSE]

Other than the name & age of the "suspect" nothing has been revealed about him.
When the facts do come out, here's one thing that won't be said about him (or I'll eat my boots):
A sociable, happy-go-lucky guy with a bright future ahead of him and a circle of friends, who remember him as a great guy who'll take the shirt of his back to help you.

[wholsomback]

Well we will probably hear he had all the warning signs but there was nothing we could do until he did something wrong.

[grokh5499]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/20/several-reportedly-dead-injured-after-shooting-at-colorado-movie-theater/

Not a whole lot of details yet. In a tragedy like this I wonder if a trained, ccw holder was at the scene if the carnage could have been lessened. My thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and their families.

I remember seeing a lot of establishments in states I have been in that had signs stating no fire arms allowed, even if you do have a permit to carry. It's a shame that too many people are afraid of the law abiding gun carrying individuals who might actually be able to do something in an event like this. While I agree that people should have an option to carry concealed or not legally, too me it kind of defeats the purpose if you have to leave it locked in your trunk a football field away while your inside being shot at.

[natertot]

Other than the name & age of the "suspect" nothing has been revealed about him.
When the facts do come out, here's one thing that won't be said about him (or I'll eat my boots):
A sociable, happy-go-lucky guy with a bright future ahead of him and a circle of friends, who remember him as a great guy who'll take the shirt of his back to help you.

Actually, the shooters mom will step up and say those things. As far as a CCW holder to stop the situation. Well, way more often than not, these things occur in gun free zones. It leaves lawful and sane persons hopeless and helpless.

For the family of the victims, my prayers and condolences.

[BornthatWay]

i SAW ON NEWS THEY THINK THEY TALKED TO SUSPECTS MOTHER AND SHE SAID YOU GOT THE RIGHT GUY. I do not think B will need to eat her boots.

[crashdive123]

Also makes you wonder even if you were that person....able to stop someone like this....what kind of a world of carp would you be in just being involved, if you even lived?
Would you choose to get involved?

Sadly these people lost their live for no good reason.....none,.... My thoughts and prayers go out to them and their families.

While it's been a long time since I trained intensely in this area, I am fairly certain that I would.

[hunter63]

While it's been a long time since I trained intensely in this area, I am fairly certain that I would.

So say you stop this guy, and the SWAT shows up, they don know if you are part of the probelm or part of the solution.

If they don't just shot you right there, be prepared tp spend a lot of time and money defending your self.....or getting your weapon back.

Case in Millwaukee guy still waithing to get his weapon back after going to the defense of some people......Gun is evidence.

So I guess if it was him or me, or my family?,.... it's gonna be him, NO Dought....alone in a crowd...Hummm, Gonna have to think about that.

[welderguy]

So say you stop this guy, and the SWAT shows up, they don know if you are part of the probelm or part of the solution.

If they don't just shot you right there, be prepared tp spend a lot of time and money defending your self.....or getting your weapon back.

Case in Millwaukee guy still waithing to get his weapon back after going to the defense of some people......Gun is evidence.

So I guess if it was him or me, or my family?,.... it's gonna be him, NO Dought....alone in a crowd...Hummm, Gonna have to think about that.


I can sure live with a gun in an evidence locker and a butt load of BS, What I couldnt live with is myself for doing nothing! as for being shot by SWAT, I dont plan on still having my weapon in my hand when they get there it will be back in its holster, and it is safe to say I will be standing there with my hands in the air as soon as I see them.

[hunter63]

I hear ya boys......that is a decision that comes with a CCW permit....playing the devil advocate here.

I see that gun control folks are already beating the drum.......

[welderguy]

I see that gun control folks are already beating the drum.......

Yep!! there like flies on S*#T when this type stuff happens.

[hunter63]

i really surprised that the political press conferences did jump already....Guess they are waiting for the second round........Done with any mention of politics...

[Celticwarrior]

The guy was a PhD grad student, no criminal record or mental illness history. There seems to be no particular reason for his rampage. He was armored (ballistics helmet, bulletproof vest and leggings, gas mask), well armed (Glock .40, AR 15, Shotgun), and had gas and smoke grenades that he popped as soon as he entered the theater showing Batman. Now, someone HAD to have seen this guy dressed like something out of Mad Max walking into the building and all the way to the theater, but no one stopped him or called the cops immediately? Many people are already asking why wasn't ANYONE armed in there that could stop this guy, but I think the reason is that they were IN A MOVIE THEATER! Who expects a shooting spree to break out there??? Sadly for the 50 people injured and dozen folks killed so far (including a 6 year old kid) nobody WAS able to stop him.

As for why he did it? CRAZY. He had dyed his hair red and told arresting officers that he was the FREAKIN' JOKER!!! Whackjob!

So I guess the moral of the story is a) always go to social events armed to the teeth of b) become a hermit and wait for everything to come out on Netflix.

PS: Romney has now officially pulled all his ads from Colorado. Wonder what he was saying in those ads that he thought he needed to yank them in light of the shootings?

[Rick]

It's easy to say sitting here what I'd do. Doing it is something else. But I don't think I'd enjoy being dead. I know one thing. When I knocked him down with a couple of rounds and he got back up I'd sure be thinking the Walking Dead. It might take a couple more rounds before I'd be thinking bullet proof vest. By then I'm pretty sure I'd be jumping up and down on him.

My thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families.

[natertot]

I hear ya boys......that is a decision that comes with a CCW permit....playing the devil advocate here.

I see that gun control folks are already beating the drum.......

I never knew they stopped beating the drum!

[Sarge47]

Guys mom tells the police that they got the right guy.

Guys apartment booby trapped to the hilt. Neighbors were woke up in the middle of the night out of a sound sleep and evacuated...have those BOBs ready folks!

Right afterwards the dude goes out and sits down and calmly waits for the police!

As for firing a CW inside that theater...WHAT! ARE YOU KIDDING ME! Let's see, smoke all over inside the theater, people jumping up everywhere, it's dark, you could very well hit the wrong person... and he was ARMORED! :sweatdrop:

There was a guy on the news totally heartbroken as his 6 year old daughter was a victim. Castration without anesthesia should definitely be considered here...use a rusty razor! :shifty:

[natertot]

Okay, my heart goes out to the family who lost the six year old, but who takes a six year old to see such violent movies! Batman has some very sick violence, gore, language, and sexuality to it. I know my kids would have to be a bit older than six for this one. I say sterilization for her parents, too!

[Sarge47]

Okay, my heart goes out to the family who lost the six year old, but who takes a six year old to see such violent movies! Batman has some very sick violence, gore, language, and sexuality to it. I know my kids would have to be a bit older than six for this one. I say sterilization for her parents, too!It was the guy's ex-wife who was also shot in the chest and is in critical condition! :cool2:

[Old Professor]

I am an ex police officer and I believe that if I had my ccw weapon and was close to the shooter, I would be shooting back! I generally take head shots if possible because more of the bad people wear armour.

[colorado plainsman]

Freaking unreal all I can say my heart goes out to all 71 victims that are never going to be the same ever again. There is nothing that can ever be done to this guy to bring any kind of justice for these poor people. With CCW in my opinion would not of made a difference in this situation people running every where smoke, unreal stress on the shooter and darkness in the theater. No matter how skilled you are it would be so many thing against you. Alos your gona have to defeat body armor basicly with a well placed head shot probably from a great distance with above stressors. This is just like Columbine all over again in a way. Sorry to rant but man it just turns my stomach.

[Celticwarrior]

It was the guy's ex-wife who was also shot in the chest and is in critical condition! :cool2:

The little girl and ex-wife were not related to the shooter, but to an irate man who was being detained by authorities because he was upset when, after waiting three hours at the hospital only to be told his child was dead, he was denied access to his ex-wife who is in critical condition and they weren't allowing any visitors. He went on a rampage and the cops 'detained' him. He apparently was released when he calmed down and talked to the news media about his situation.

[crashdive123]

As for firing a CW inside that theater...WHAT! ARE YOU KIDDING ME! Let's see, smoke all over inside the theater, people jumping up everywhere, it's dark, you could very well hit the wrong person... and he was ARMORED! :sweatdrop:


Not kidding at all. As I said - I trained rather intensely for similar scenarios. That aside though - Do you think it better that he continue to shoot unarmed people with absolutely no resistance? Or would it be better for him to think that somebody is shooting back, so I had better run?

[Celticwarrior]

Also, there is no way to know the guy had kevlar on. I would have shot just on general principle and adapted once the bullets didn't have their desired effect. But tossing off a couple of shots to get his attention? Yeah, that would be better than sitting there wondering how many people will die (including me and mine) before SOMEBODY ELSE does something about this guy. If you are wearing a gun with a CCW, and you do NOTHING in a situation like this, why are you wearing it at all? THIS is the proper time and place to use that weapon and all that training you have devoted to it. I'd never be able to live with myself if I didn't try to take this piece of crap out if I was sitting there with my Glock or H&K.

[Batch]

I carry a full size fire arm every day. I have trained scenarios and walked through all these types of shootings in my head after the fact. Being realistic about your skills and the distances your dealing with. Under these levels of duress I would probably die.

As soon as you start shooting you are a huge target. At pistol range it is hard to miss with an AR-15. You might get a couple of hits if you are a cool shot. All that was exposed was his face in a gas mask and I think his legs. I like the middle of the theater. I would not have been of much use in this fight.

[Sarge47]

The little girl and ex-wife were not related to the shooter, but to an irate man who was being detained by authorities because he was upset when, after waiting three hours at the hospital only to be told his child was dead, he was denied access to his ex-wife who is in critical condition and they weren't allowing any visitors. He went on a rampage and the cops 'detained' him. He apparently was released when he calmed down and talked to the news media about his situation.My bad, I was NOT referring to the shooter.

[Sarge47]

Not kidding at all. As I said - I trained rather intensely for similar scenarios. That aside though - Do you think it better that he continue to shoot unarmed people with absolutely no resistance? Or would it be better for him to think that somebody is shooting back, so I had better run?

And how would you feel if, just as you were squeezing the trigger somebody else jumped up right in front of you and took the bullet you had meant for him? And what if it, too, were a child? I don't know if CWs are allowed in Movie Theaters, but I can understand why they're not.

[crashdive123]

And how would you feel if, just as you were squeezing the trigger somebody else jumped up right in front of you and took the bullet you had meant for him? And what if it, too, were a child? I don't know if CWs are allowed in Movie Theaters, but I can understand why they're not.

If you are not comfortable with your abilities and skill, then ccw may not be for you. They are allowed here. There are very few places in Florida that legal ccw permit holders cannot carry.

[Sarge47]

If you are not comfortable with your abilities and skill, then ccw may not be for you. They are allowed here. There are very few places in Florida that legal ccw permit holders cannot carry.

Really? Well, I usually wait until films hit the DVD market, and I see no reason to change. Crap happens and Murphy's law is everywhere. I can just visualize a big gunfight in a movie theater between somebody like that A-hole and a large number of CCWs. It staggers the mind.

[Celticwarrior]

And how would you feel if, just as you were squeezing the trigger somebody else jumped up right in front of you and took the bullet you had meant for him? And what if it, too, were a child? I don't know if CWs are allowed in Movie Theaters, but I can understand why they're not.

I'd still take the shot. Maybes and what-ifs aside, I would rather have some lunatic shooting at me than all those kids, and if I get a round or two in him before I go down, then maybe there are a dozen or two innocents that were able to get out the exits in the meantime that would have been victims otherwise. Sometimes it isn't about whether you can win or not. It is all the collateral damage you can prevent by acting rather than not.

If I took a shot and a kid jumped in the way of my bullet, I would still keep firing at my target. I am sorry the kid was hit or even died, but my objective is to stop a LOT of deaths from his guns. I would likely be haunted by that shot for the rest of my life, sued into oblivion by the parents, and probably even prosecuted. But it was the right thing to do.

Shoot/Don't Shoot scenarios are nice, but in reality, there is no way to stop someone like this short of killing them or waiting til they run out of ammo and subduing them. I would have no choice but to try to use deadly force and take the shooter out, regardless of the possible danger my weapon added to the chaos.

[Sarge47]

I'd still take the shot. Maybes and what-ifs aside, I would rather have some lunatic shooting at me than all those kids, and if I get a round or two in him before I go down, then maybe there are a dozen or two innocents that were able to get out the exits in the meantime that would have been victims otherwise. Sometimes it isn't about whether you can win or not. It is all the collateral damage you can prevent by acting rather than not.

If I took a shot and a kid jumped in the way of my bullet, I would still keep firing at my target. I am sorry the kid was hit or even died, but my objective is to stop a LOT of deaths from his guns. I would likely be haunted by that shot for the rest of my life, sued into oblivion by the parents, and probably even prosecuted. But it was the right thing to do.

Shoot/Don't Shoot scenarios are nice, but in reality, there is no way to stop someone like this short of killing them or waiting til they run out of ammo and subduing them. I would have no choice but to try to use deadly force and take the shooter out, regardless of the possible danger my weapon added to the chaos.

Sorry CW and Crash, we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. :cool2:

[crashdive123]

Oh - we definitely disagree. Guess we'll leave it at that.

[Winter]

I'll eat that sum'*****s face, not a selfish bone in my body.

If I have a gun even better. If I have no clear shot I grab him by the beltbuckle.

You guys are killing me here. I'm kinda confused.

"Winter is just talking crap"

OK.

[natertot]

Well, we can all say what we would or wouldn't do in a situation. What actually happens when a situation arises might be different. Might revert back to training, might run, might black out. What you will actually do can only be determined once you are at a real situation.

[Rick]

In trying to envision what the inside of that movie theater looked like in the seconds the shooting was going on. It was dark, smoke filled, people fleeing for the exits. The one thing that would stand out are the muzzle flashes. That would be about your only indication of his location unless the light from the actual movie silhouetted him. The only thing you could do is fire at the muzzle flashes. The advantage you might have is the shooter doesn't know you are going to return fire. And with the gas mask on his vision is even more obstructed if you happen to be off to the side. So you unload most of a clip before he could assess and return fire. All theoretical of course. Just trying to think through how it went down.

If I were sitting there with my weapon and did not try I'm not sure I could live with myself. I would probably view myself as a coward for not doing something, anything to stop or at least slow down the massacre. As CW said the more focus the shooter places on you the more opportunity others have to escape. As I said above, sitting here and saying what I'd do is one thing and doing it is something else. But what's the point of carrying if not to use it to protect yourself. And how do you decide where is good to protect yourself and where is not good? If not a movie house then a mall? A church? A hospital? Virtually every location presents itself with the potential for bystanders to be hit by stray rounds whether they are outside or tucked in their beds asleep.

[Sarge47]

No offense meant towards the shooting abilities of either Crash or CW, I'd trust Crash with a firearm more than I would anybody else that I can think of, it's just I can see a lot of problems in that situation. They said that right afterwards the guy went back outside, sat down, and waited for the police. That might have been the best time to take him out, when he was alone and there was not smoke or low-light conditions to impede vision or a packed to the gills auditorium to create collateral damage. I am surprised that there were no CCWs in the theater. I used to live in Colorado and I know for a fact that it's a big gun state. :cool2:

[Rick]

Everyone was dead then. No point in taking him out once the carnage is done. That would probably get YOU arrested for murder.

[Sarge47]

Everyone was dead then. No point in taking him out once the carnage is done. That would probably get YOU arrested for murder.Probably, but the same thing would happen if I shot an innocent by-stander,not to mention the field day the "anti-gun nuts" are going to have! Anyway, I'm pretty sure that nobody was going to follow that fellow out the door to see if he sat down or not!

[Rick]

There's a difference between manslaughter/negligent homicide and murder. About 20 years if my math is right.

[welderguy]

I carry for several reasons, first and formost my safety, and the safety of my family And others around me if need be. I dont carry because its cool or a fad I dont carry to boost my ego. because of my bckground and training ( I wasnt always a welder)I find myself reacting to situations I dont have to just because its what I did for a long time , not firearms related but in general.
If a person is trained ( professionaly trained and skilled ) and knows his abilitys then responding to a threath like this is acceptable.
If the person carrying has no training but what was needed to pass the ccw then for gods sake run and hide and dont pull your weapon. I dont care if you have shot 10,000 rounds and hit 9,900 in the 10 ring. your still untrained period.

[WY21lmb]

Some random thoughts. They may be germane, or maybe not.
1) From what I have read and heard, in Israel there is high percentage (as compared to here) of the population that carry an automatic weapon all day, every day, in public, everywhere.
2) My boys were attending high school in a small rural town in WY when Columbine occurred in neighboring CO. They expressed the belief, and I agreed, that such a situation would have been unlikely here. There was more firepower in the pickups parked in the high school parking lot than all of the local law enforcement regularly carried. And the drivers of those pickups, students and staff, probably shot far more often than local law enforcement did, shooting coyotes, other varmints and prairie dogs regularly on the way to and from school every day. A Columbine situation probably would not have been very successful from the perpetrators point of view.
3) When I was in grade school, nearly every boy (and at least one girl that I knew) carried a knife. We played ‘mumbly-peg’ (a knife sticking game) at recess, sometimes with the playground supervisor!
4) One of our school bus drivers regularly carried a shotgun on the bus in pheasant season (unloaded single shot with the action open and the ammo in his pocket); he rarely missed.
Thoughts 2 through 4 occurred quite some time ago, in a world far different from our present one.

[Rick]

Let me just offer that a weapon somewhere else (not on you) is of little use in an emergency like Columbine.

[crashdive123]

My apologies for getting up today and not letting this go. I felt it important to address some of your points.


And how would you feel if, just as you were squeezing the trigger somebody else jumped up right in front of you and took the bullet you had meant for him? And what if it, too, were a child? I don't know if CWs are allowed in Movie Theaters, but I can understand why they're not.

I would feel terrible, but probably not as bad as I would if I could have done something and did not. Since we are talking what ifs how would you feel if you had the ability to stop him, decided not to do so out of your concern for "friendly fire" or prosecution , and he continued to shoot and kill everybody in the theater? What if some that were killed due to your inaction were family members? Again, all what ifs, but since we are talking hypothetical....


Really? Well, I usually wait until films hit the DVD market, and I see no reason to change. Crap happens and Murphy's law is everywhere. I can just visualize a big gunfight in a movie theater between somebody like that A-hole and a large number of CCWs. It staggers the mind.

This is the identical argument that every single - without exception - anti gun group has used each and every time CCW laws are being discussed. I know that you probably hear a lot of it because of where you live, but the facts are - it hasn't happened. Ever. Look at the event that happened just days before this incident. http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/national-international/71-Year-Old-Man-Shoots-Would-Be-Robbers-at-Ocala-Internet-Cafe-Authorities-162941656.html The occurrences of legally armed citizens thwarting tragedy happens a lot.


No offense meant towards the shooting abilities of either Crash or CW, I'd trust Crash with a firearm more than I would anybody else that I can think of, it's just I can see a lot of problems in that situation. They said that right afterwards the guy went back outside, sat down, and waited for the police. That might have been the best time to take him out, when he was alone and there was not smoke or low-light conditions to impede vision or a packed to the gills auditorium to create collateral damage. I am surprised that there were no CCWs in the theater. I used to live in Colorado and I know for a fact that it's a big gun state. :cool2:

No offense taken. In an active shooter situation you don't know when the shooter will, or even if he/she will stop. Unless and until the threat is removed, the carnage will continue. What his reasoning is/was really isn't relevant. In this case, after shooting 70 (I believe that is the number being reported) he decided to stop. What if a person with a legally owned and carried weapon could have stopped him at 6? What if he continued to shoot until he had shot 200?


Probably, but the same thing would happen if I shot an innocent by-stander,not to mention the field day the "anti-gun nuts" are going to have! Anyway, I'm pretty sure that nobody was going to follow that fellow out the door to see if he sat down or not!

The gun ban crowd will always use the occasion of a tragedy like this to try and enact more gun legislation. If you had shot him after he laid down his weapons and was no longer a threat, as gratifying as that may be to you, then you would be in the jail cell next to him.

[Sarge47]

My apologies for getting up today and not letting this go. I felt it important to address some of your points.

Not a problem, I think that this is something positive that we can all get out of a tragic situation. This probably won't be the last time something like this is going to happen and going over it might help some on here to be better prepared.




I would feel terrible, but probably not as bad as I would if I could have done something and did not. Since we are talking what ifs how would you feel if you had the ability to stop him, decided not to do so out of your concern for "friendly fire" or prosecution , and he continued to shoot and kill everybody in the theater? What if some that were killed due to your inaction were family members? Again, all what ifs, but since we are talking hypothetical....

Do you realize that it would not just be prosecution that you would have to worry about? If somebody did that to a child of mine they'd better be watching their back 24/7! I would feel that they were just as bad as the shooter.




This is the identical argument that every single - without exception - anti gun group has used each and every time CCW laws are being discussed. I know that you probably hear a lot of it because of where you live, but the facts are - it hasn't happened. Ever. Look at the event that happened just days before this incident. http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/national-international/71-Year-Old-Man-Shoots-Would-Be-Robbers-at-Ocala-Internet-Cafe-Authorities-162941656.html The occurrences of legally armed citizens thwarting tragedy happens a lot.

Agreed, however now they would have stronger evidence to further their cause. This is the exact same argument legislators are using here in Illinois to keep CC from becoming legal.




No offense taken. In an active shooter situation you don't know when the shooter will, or even if he/she will stop. Unless and until the threat is removed, the carnage will continue. What his reasoning is/was really isn't relevant. In this case, after shooting 70 (I believe that is the number being reported) he decided to stop. What if a person with a legally owned and carried weapon could have stopped him at 6? What if he continued to shoot until he had shot 200?

I agree that if you could have stopped him at 6 then that would be better, but not at the expense of you accidently adding number 7.




The gun ban crowd will always use the occasion of a tragedy like this to try and enact more gun legislation. If you had shot him after he laid down his weapons and was no longer a threat, as gratifying as that may be to you, then you would be in the jail cell next to him.

I wouldn't have shot him at all, I'd of been busy trying to get my family out of harms way, even if I had to shield them with my own body. Alone I might have done what you are proposing, I don't know.

Perhaps living in Illinois too long has corrupted my thought processes. I have no doubt that if you were in that same type of situation that any fire you might have taken would have a 99% chance of succeeding without collateral damage. However, if you were shooting back here in Illinois and the police arrived while you were doing that they would probably assume you were also one of the shooters and shoot you down as well. They're not the "brightest crayons in the box," that's for sure.

[colorado plainsman]

What will be learned from this tragic event and implamented now. The Hollywood bank of America shooting 400 cops called to deal with two well armed and protected gunmen shotguns and handguns couldn't stop them so they had to wait for swat who had long rifles and took rifles from sporting good stores to equalize. Now all patrol units across the US carry a long guns an ar or M-14. Columbine No one really new how to deal with this type of threat never saw anything like this before. Training for active shooter situations are now implamented across the us. Realistic training noise, stress tons of people running by you, smoke and lots of other factors. What type of training for future events will come from this. Makes you wonder why the world changes to be more like a battlefield, why can't it turn to the way of mayberry where the only thing to worry about is when is aunt bee's pie gona cool.

[Batch]

I would have tried something. I am just being realistic. he is almost entirely covered in Kevlar. You have to make a face shot in a dark packed to capacity theater with flash bangs going off and an active shooter with a carbine firing repeatedly into the crowd. If you sat toward the center of the theater you either have to run over the chairs down hill and through the crowd. Or, if you had the fore-thought to take an isle seat, you have to run against the fleeing crowd directly into the point of fire as he was targeting the people running in the isles.

When Gabrielle Giffords was shot in Arizona the shooter was tackled by a CCW who was carrying at the time. Because that is what the situation dictated. If I was close enough that I could lunge. I certainly would and would definitely feel better at that range. But, even if you pull off getting inside his AR and he abandons that for his .40 he is still covered in Kevlar and you are not. You still need to try and stop him with a face shot. Your probably better off trying to relieve him of his firearms.

I have studied close grappling with a handgun and firing from retention. How to create space and keep clear. If he had the .40 out you could try and grab and either take it out of battery by pushing the slide back or just averting the muzzle and waiting for him to fire and then when the gun jammed because the slide couldn't cycle get more aggressive. Might be better off trying to plunge my Spyderco Endura Wave into his face.

BTW, I avoid theaters and stadiums all together. I also avoid malls and crowds. But, these types of shootings happen in small venues such as restaurants and offices as well. They are also with for the long term. We have average about 24 of these events a year and that average has been pretty steady over the last 4 decades. But, these types of events don't require modern firearms. An example would be the 2006 killings at Shiguan kindergarden. A knife and gasoline were used to kill 12 and injure 5.

Here is a wiki with killers the type of weapon listed in the W column.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers

[Celticwarrior]

From the descriptions of the event from many of the witnesses, while he came in, popped smoke/gas from 2 cannisters, and then opened fire, first into the air to get people panicked and moving, then sweeping the crowd starting from the back of the theater and moving up to the front rows. He walked from the exit door on stage right to the middle of the screen and continued to fire at folks trying to escape at the left side of the theater. At that point, he was fully illuminated and they could see what he was wearing, though the smoke and tear gas made viewing difficult.

Taking a shot when he was fully lit up in front of the screen would have been the time to get your best target. Starting with center mass (you don't know he has body armor on after all), you take a couple of paired shots at the chest. This may have been enough to knock him down. I haven't heard whether his tac vest had ballistic plates or not. If it was just a bulletproof vest in the class 2 or 3 range with no ceramic or steel plates to absorb impact, he probably would have been knocked flat or at least stunned by a couple of chest shots. People who have never taken a round while wearing kevlar don't realize how much it hurts and how big an impact it has on contact. It leaves a helluva bruise and can even crack ribs or sternum. Even if it didn't do damage due to his level of protection, it would turn his attention toward the shooter and away from others (including the shooters family who could make their getaway while the perp was occupied). The next shots might be in the legs (again, who would know he had groin and leg protection?) or the head (he had a ballistic helmet, but that doesn't provide much protection in a face-on assault), and I am willing to bet those would have more success. A head shot through the gas mask would likely be fatal, while a leg/groin shot would be debilitating. Leg armor doesn't usually have trauma plates, and it is not clear whether the groin protection he had was for blunt force or ballistic. Either way, it is usually far less effective than chest armor. It could have brought him to ground, at which point he might be subdued.

It wouldn't have taken a crack shot to do any of this. Just someone who has been under fire before and knows how to act even in the middle of a firefight. With as many Iraq and Afghanistan combat vets as we have now (sadly), I am surprised that there wasn't one in the crowd, carrying a weapon. Sure, the average joe target shooter probably would have been freaked out by the gas and the dark and confusion, and it would have been hard to get an accurate shot, but those are the same conditions combat troops with urban counter-insurgency training have gone through and have probably seen in live combat situations. I'd say Holmes was extremely lucky he didn't pick a theater with more vets in it. This could have gone down in a totally different way with one or more combat trained soldiers with CCWs and weapons in the audience.

[BENESSE]

Hind sight is always 20/20.
Corny, but true.

[sgtmcboom]

Everyone was dead then. No point in taking him out once the carnage is done. That would probably get YOU arrested for murder.

In the United States, a civilian may legally use deadly force when it is considered justifiable homicide, that is to say when the civilian feels that their own life, the lives of their family, or those around them are in legitimate and imminent danger.

He had more guns and ammo in his car. I am surprized the police did not take him out when they arrived.

[Rick]

It will depend on each state's law. But I'll guarantee you that if you gun him down when he is no longer a threat you will be before a grand jury and there's a very good chance you will be remanded for trial.

[Delta 5168]

The guy was a PhD grad student, no criminal record or mental illness history. There seems to be no particular reason for his rampage. He was armored (ballistics helmet, bulletproof vest and leggings, gas mask), well armed (Glock .40, AR 15, Shotgun), and had gas and smoke grenades that he popped as soon as he entered the theater showing Batman. Now, someone HAD to have seen this guy dressed like something out of Mad Max walking into the building and all the way to the theater, but no one stopped him or called the cops immediately? Many people are already asking why wasn't ANYONE armed in there that could stop this guy, but I think the reason is that they were IN A MOVIE THEATER! Who expects a shooting spree to break out there??? Sadly for the 50 people injured and dozen folks killed so far (including a 6 year old kid) nobody WAS able to stop him.

As for why he did it? CRAZY. He had dyed his hair red and told arresting officers that he was the FREAKIN' JOKER!!! Whackjob!

So I guess the moral of the story is a) always go to social events armed to the teeth of b) become a hermit and wait for everything to come out on Netflix.

PS: Romney has now officially pulled all his ads from Colorado. Wonder what he was saying in those ads that he thought he needed to yank them in light of the shootings?

CW, I'm writing 24 hrs after the fact. The reports that I heard said that a lot of people were in "costume" in the crowd waiting to get in to the movie. That may have been one factor that helped him "blend-in".

[colorado plainsman]

It will depend on each state's law. But I'll guarantee you that if you gun him down when he is no longer a threat you will be before a grand jury and there's a very good chance you will be remanded for trial.

Yes you will be sitting in a prison cell here in CO for shooting him when he is not presenting a threat.

[Delta 5168]

I find it very ironic that after every mass shooting, the first thing that you hear is " if there had only been someone there with a gun to shoot him and stop the killing". These are the same bleeding hearts who try everything in their power to gut the 2nd amendment.

[Sarge47]

It will depend on each state's law. But I'll guarantee you that if you gun him down when he is no longer a threat you will be before a grand jury and there's a very good chance you will be remanded for trial.

The key phrase there is "When he no longer is a threat." Let's see, the guy just shot around 70 people and went back out. For all anyone knows he is reloading and getting ready to come back in. Also, there were a total of four movie theaters in this Cinimaplex showing the same film, all sold out! He's already signaled his intent to shoot to kill, who's to say he isn't getting ready to go into another one? If you blow him away before the cops arrive who's to say that he's no longer a threat? The guy was still armed, had more ammo in his vehicle, and was sitting down, maybe taking a breather before shooting some more people. The burden of proof is on the prosecution, not the defendant! I wouldn't do it, but just sayin'...:detective:

[Celticwarrior]

I'd make sure they found his pistol or rifle in his dead cold hand and then they can try to prove I didn't just outdraw him. Of course, if he wasn't taken alive, no one would have known about the boobytrapped apartment and more people would have died.

[Sarge47]

I'd make sure they found his pistol or rifle in his dead cold hand and then they can try to prove I didn't just outdraw him. Of course, if he wasn't taken alive, no one would have known about the boobytrapped apartment and more people would have died.
Good point! However I was just speaking to the legality of the situation. Come to think of it, nobody would have known about the booby-trapped apartment if he'd been shot and killed inside either...you make a good point all the way around! :detective:

[sgtmcboom]

technicly he is still a threat to law enforcment officers as he has boobytrapped his appartment. Just how far can you bend the law. I dont think there would be a jury out there that would convict you for going and eliminating the threat before he could repeat himself or flee the area to do it again.

[Rick]

That will look really good when they play the security tape for the grand jury.

"On this angle from the theater's outside camera we can see the assailant being shot in the back of the head. You'll notice he is empty handed."

"On this angle from the gas station next door you can see a weapon being place in the dead assailant's hand".......

Nice plan. Unless he is pointing a weapon at you he is no threat. Some state's REQUIRE you to announce. Some require you to retreat. Some require both. Fortunately for me, Indiana requires neither. Colorado does not appear to have any such requirements either.

[Celticwarrior]

Yeah, that would be my luck. Some clever CSI and an ATM video from a block away and then I'd be the one modelling prison orange, eh? Probably still be worth it in the long run, but bad planning nonetheless.

[Winter]

You can't plan a reaction to a specific scenario. You have to train your brain to react. Have a thought out plan for the most obscure event. If you haven't thought through, war gamed, home invaders then you are screwing up. Identify the threat and mediate it as best you can.

people may think you crazy if you share with them the reason why you studied a movie theatre for 30 mins before you entered, but, screw them. Stay alert/ stay alive.

[Kamel]

Yah in texas, If someone enters your yard unwanted, you have to give them a warning first, then announce they are a danger to you or your family, then you can legally shoot them. Atleast thats how I understood it when i read about 4 years ago.

[Winter]

Yah in texas, If someone enters your yard unwanted, you have to give them a warning first, then announce they are a danger to you or your family, then you can legally shoot them. Atleast thats how I understood it when i read about 4 years ago.

You misunderstood it. Trespassers can be shot after dark. You will get in trouble if it is a free range cow though, so be careful. It can be hard to tell a Texan from a cow in the dark.

[Kamel]

Oo, starting with fat jokes huh? Just cause we have 3 of the fattest cities in america, means nothing! bet your next joke will be "Steers and queers". haha

[Nighthunter]

Anyone else wondering where the perp received training to do what he did; both at the movie theater and at his house? Project MK Ultra?? Who can benefit from this incident the most? My thoughts and prayers are with the families but things such as this are almost never as they appear. OK City bombing - All LEO's were paged and told not to go to work that day... Coincidence? WTC - Mossad told Jewish workers to not go to work on 9/11. Coincidence? Don't believe in em..

[crashdive123]

Anyone else wondering where the perp received training to do what he did; both at the movie theater and at his house? Project MK Ultra?? Who can benefit from this incident the most? My thoughts and prayers are with the families but things such as this are almost never as they appear. OK City bombing - All LEO's were paged and told not to go to work that day... Coincidence? WTC - Mossad told Jewish workers to not go to work on 9/11. Coincidence? Don't believe in em..

Sorry Nighthunter - both of the conspiracy theories that you cited have been thoroughly debunked and have absolutely no basis in fact or reality.

[Rick]

I actually haven't heard those. That's funny. The Mossad called 4000 members of the Jewish religion and told them not to go to work? Buhahahahaha. If I were with Mossad about the time I got to the 2000th phone call I'd be asking for some help. LOL.

The fact that the Alfred Murrah Federal Building housed ATF, DEA, FBI, Secret Service and the U.S. Marshals was the whole reason it was targeted. All LEO. 4 dead were Secret Service, 2 from Customs and 1 from DEA. I guess they didn't get the message, huh?

All it takes is a little research.

[Sarge47]

That will look really good when they play the security tape for the grand jury.

"On this angle from the theater's outside camera we can see the assailant being shot in the back of the head. You'll notice he is empty handed."

"On this angle from the gas station next door you can see a weapon being place in the dead assailant's hand".......

Nice plan. Unless he is pointing a weapon at you he is no threat. Some state's REQUIRE you to announce. Some require you to retreat. Some require both. Fortunately for me, Indiana requires neither. Colorado does not appear to have any such requirements either.

Well, if I was sitting on that jury it's going to be Self Defense! The man with the gun was just rushing too safety out the back exit when he saw the perp who'd just committed mass homicde sitting down. Not taking any chances of him being armed the man shot the perp...true...in the BACK of the head...but so what? That was the part that was facing the man leaving the theatre! I would, however, call it "sloppy shooting..." what? no "double tap?" Yes, I would have to say "self-defense" as I don't think I could get away with claiming it was "suicide"...still....?

I don't know if the law was repealed or modified since I moved out of Colorado in '88, but they'd recently passed a law called the "Make My Day Law!" In essence it said that you had the right to shoot to kill anybody coming onto your property if you even thought they were a threat to you and/or your family. Maybe one of our members currently living there can shed some light on that. :ohmy:

[Sarge47]

....OK City bombing - All LEO's were paged and told not to go to work that day... Coincidence? WTC - Mossad told Jewish workers to not go to work on 9/11. Coincidence? Don't believe in em..

This is true! They'd even called Santa Clause and told him to take the address of that building off of his list as the it would soon be no blown up ! I smell a rat! :innocent: :sneaky2: :drool:

Also, some people don't know this, but President Kennedy was actually shot by one of the moon men from the Rocky and Bullwinkle show as they were afraid of the Moon exploration that was going on at the time. I know that this is all true as I heard it from a drunk in a bar who claimed to be a hit man for the CIA...why would he lie? :innocent:

[Sarge47]

I also heard that Elvis, Bruce Lee, and JFK are really alive and had plastic surgery to make them look like the 3 stooges...JFK is Moe, but for some reason won't slap Larry who is really Bruce Lee...go figure! :sneaky2: :innocent:

[Rick]

In essence it said that you had the right to shoot to kill anybody coming onto your property if you even thought they were a threat to you and/or your family.

On your property or in a public place are two different things.

Colorado Law in part:

1. Except as provided in subsections (2) and (3) of this section, a person is justified in using physical force
upon another person in order to defend himself or a third person in order to defend
himself or a third person
from what he reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of unlawful physical
force by that other
person, and he may use a degree of force which he reasonably believes to be necessary for that purpose.
2. Deadly physical force may be used only if a person reasonably believes a lesser degree of force is inadequate and:
(a.) The actor has reasonable ground to believe, and does believe, that he or another person is in imminent danger of being killed or of receiving great bodily injury; or
(b.) The other person is using or reasonably appears about to use physical
force against an occupant of a dwelling or business establishment while committing or attempting to commit burglary as defined in sections 18-4-202 to 18-4-204; or (c.) The other person is committing or reasonably appears about to commit kidnapping as defined
in section 18-3-301 or 18-3-302, robbery as defined in section 18-4-301 or 18-4-302, sexual assault as set forth in section 18-3-402 or 18-3-403 as it existed prior to July 1, 2000, or assault as defined in sections 18-3-202 or 18-3-203.


http://www.moffatcountysheriff.com/CoStatutes.pdf

[Sarge47]

On your property or in a public place are two different things.

Colorado Law in part:

1. Except as provided in subsections (2) and (3) of this section, a person is justified in using physical force
upon another person in order to defend himself or a third person in order to defend
himself or a third person
from what he reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of unlawful physical
force by that other
person, and he may use a degree of force which he reasonably believes to be necessary for that purpose.
2. Deadly physical force may be used only if a person reasonably believes a lesser degree of force is inadequate and:
(a.) The actor has reasonable ground to believe, and does believe, that he or another person is in imminent danger of being killed or of receiving great bodily injury; or
(b.) The other person is using or reasonably appears about to use physical
force against an occupant of a dwelling or business establishment while committing or attempting to commit burglary as defined in sections 18-4-202 to 18-4-204; or (c.) The other person is committing or reasonably appears about to commit kidnapping as defined
in section 18-3-301 or 18-3-302, robbery as defined in section 18-4-301 or 18-4-302, sexual assault as set forth in section 18-3-402 or 18-3-403 as it existed prior to July 1, 2000, or assault as defined in sections 18-3-202 or 18-3-203.


http://www.moffatcountysheriff.com/CoStatutes.pdf

Well, that explains that! :confused1:

Then you have the jury to contend with. How much sympathy do you think the shooter is going to get or would have gotten if he was shot in the back of the head while sitting down unarmed? :confused1:

[Batch]

He does not have to point a gun at you. They guy just committed an EXTREMELY violent act. He is in his car and either reloading or trying to escape. UNLESS you have a duty to retreat you can bust this guys grape. Because you SHOULD believe that he is a threat to your life and the lives of others. He is still loaded to the nines. He still has the intent to kill the first responders.

You would be a moron, whether your state has a law or not to announce your presence to this threat. You still have no suitable target but the guys face. I would angle for cover (not concealment) and use a hood for a rest make my first shot as calmly as I could for the brain stem or forehead. If he has his head down, which he should, his helmet is still protecting his head.

If you engage someone who has done what this man has done. Dressed the way this man is dressed and with your hand gun, probably a compact handgun, against a long gun. You should definitely consider your life at risk. Doesn't matter if you know the condition of where about of his weapons or not.

Because even if you are the baddest combat vet, with all the tactical skills in the world and ice water in your veins. Mr. Murphy is always there as to contend with as well.

[Rick]

If he is in his car trying to escape how can you possibly proclaim he is a threat? The threat has ended. If you guys want to spend six figures trying to convince a jury of your innocence by all means go for it. If you are at the jury stage that means that the state's attorney thought you were wrong and a grand jury thought you were wrong. I just hope you don't get a jury full of Cook County gun haters that believe every gun was designed to kill. As for me. I don't want to get to the jury stage. I will not be chasing down a guy to kill him so I have to be arrested. If he is pointing a weapon I'll take my shot and the state's attorney will say, "good job". If he's walking away I'll point him out for the police.

And then there's always the possibility that while you are running him down he drops you in your tracks.

So.....good luck with that.

[Celticwarrior]

You can't plan a reaction to a specific scenario. You have to train your brain to react. Have a thought out plan for the most obscure event. If you haven't thought through, war gamed, home invaders then you are screwing up. Identify the threat and mediate it as best you can.

people may think you crazy if you share with them the reason why you studied a movie theatre for 30 mins before you entered, but, screw them. Stay alert/ stay alive.

I treat every place that way. Look for all the exits, look for cover, look for the most vulnerable spot in case of things like armed robbery, terrorist attack, domestic violence blowup, out of control auto accident, etc. I doubt anyone usually notices it when I make an assessment, but all of those things play into it, just as much as where to sit on an airplane in case of a crash. I always sit on an aisle in a theater, just far enough up to see the screen comfortably, and halfway between the upper and lower exit doors.

[Sarge47]

...I just hope you don't get a jury full of Cook County gun haters that believe every gun was designed to kill.

Not many "gun-haters" in Colorado. I used to work out of an insurance office in Colorado Springs and we used to say that if WWIII broke out we were going over to our Branch Manager's house. You never seen so many guns in your life! He hunted Kodiak Bear in Alaska, went on safari in Africa, and liked to walk around with a "Dirty Harry" .44 Magnum in a shoulder holster under his jacket that he used to shoot at road signs from his vehicle while driving down the highway! I never gave him any crap! :gunsmilie:

[jake abraham]

if I was carrying I would like to think I would do something

[Sarge47]

I've done some research, this happened in Aurora, Co., which is a very liberal suburb of Denver...and they hate guns! Therefore they have a city law in place which does not allow the CC of handguns, and also supersedes the state law. This might explain the lack of firearms in the theater when it all went down. There is the distinct possibility that if CCW permits were allowed in Aurora that the perp might have decided to stay home, or have been shot by someone in the theater before inflicting as much damage as he did on the crowd as there were several soldiers inside who obviously had handgun training. While I don't think that this would have been a wise policy, there is the possibility, as both Crash and CW pointed out, that it may have saved lives. If this is true then Aurora, Co. certainly payed a high price for their foolish legislation! :ohmy:

[BENESSE]

...can't help but wonder about whether anyone could've rushed him from behind and knocked him to the ground...It's not like the guy had eyes in the back of his head.

[Celticwarrior]

He was at the front of the theater, with his back to the screen as he made his way right to left, spraying the crowd. Apparently the only thing that stopped him was that he jammed the AR-15 and decided that it wasn't worth clearing or trying to continue with the pistol and shotgun alone. That was when he left the building. I don't think in the amount of time alloted that he was open from the back unless you could get up on the stage by the screen itself.

[Sarge47]

I view this as a "real life urban survival model" as we all well know that this has happened before in other public places and will likely continue, in the future, to erupt without warning. Many of the posts on here have pointed out various scenarios, viewpoints, and the potential consequences of certain actions. while my heart goes out to the family members that have lost loved ones, I feel that we can all learn something from this horrible incident that might help us prepare better in the future should we ever, God forbid, come into a similar situation. There cannot be anything wrong with trying to learn from this and find positive actions that could, in all likelihood, save lives. After all, isn't that what "survival" is all about? :cool2:

[Sarge47]

Here's a link to a list of some of the worse mass shootings...I didn't know about many of these:

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/features/npr.php?id=157155708

:ohmy:

[Celticwarrior]

Well, as we have seen, theaters, restaurants, schools, and even MILITARY BASES aren't safe from this kind of violence. There are no safe places. You and your family could be confronted with this scenario at any time. Best to be mentally and physically prepared and ready for it if it does happen. These kinds of stories give us the time and the ability to assess ourselves and ponder our own reactions should we be in a similar situation. We should take advantage of the 'what-if's' it poses to us now, before we need to act. What would you do if you were there? What actions would be best to save yourself or your loved ones? Are you prepared to do whatever it would take to get out of that situation? People sacrificed themselves to shield people near them. People had to crawl over folks who were at the very least unconscious to escape, and didn't attempt to assess that person's health or pull them to safety. People had to leave friends behind because they got lost in the confusion. What would you have done? Anything different? It is a good time to honestly evaluate ourselves and how prepared we really are for this type of unrelenting urban violence.

[Sarge47]

Well, as we have seen, theaters, restaurants, schools, and even MILITARY BASES aren't safe from this kind of violence. There are no safe places. You and your family could be confronted with this scenario at any time. Best to be mentally and physically prepared and ready for it if it does happen. These kinds of stories give us the time and the ability to assess ourselves and ponder our own reactions should we be in a similar situation. We should take advantage of the 'what-if's' it poses to us now, before we need to act. What would you do if you were there? What actions would be best to save yourself or your loved ones? Are you prepared to do whatever it would take to get out of that situation? People sacrificed themselves to shield people near them. People had to crawl over folks who were at the very least unconscious to escape, and didn't attempt to assess that person's health or pull them to safety. People had to leave friends behind because they got lost in the confusion. What would you have done? Anything different? It is a good time to honestly evaluate ourselves and how prepared we really are for this type of unrelenting urban violence.

....like he said! :thumbup1:

[sgtmcboom]

If he is in his car trying to escape how can you possibly proclaim he is a threat? The threat has ended. If you guys want to spend six figures trying to convince a jury of your innocence by all means go for it. If you are at the jury stage that means that the state's attorney thought you were wrong and a grand jury thought you were wrong. I just hope you don't get a jury full of Cook County gun haters that believe every gun was designed to kill. As for me. I don't want to get to the jury stage. I will not be chasing down a guy to kill him so I have to be arrested. If he is pointing a weapon I'll take my shot and the state's attorney will say, "good job". If he's walking away I'll point him out for the police.

And then there's always the possibility that while you are running him down he drops you in your tracks.

So.....good luck with that.

Look up 2007 Colorado YWAM and New Life shootings
Gunman killed people at one location and then went to a second location to start shooting more. You could say that you were just trying to avoid the same thing. BTW that shooting was stopped by a lady with a CCW permit and wounded the guy to the point where he took his own life.

[Rick]

You could. You could say that alien's were about to beam him up, too. I don't happen to think either story would cut mustard with the state's attorney, which is who you have to convince. I also don't happen to think anyone that has argued in favor of dropping him after he stopped shooting would do so despite their arguments that it would be okay.

[BENESSE]

Look up 2007 Colorado YWAM and New Life shootings
Gunman killed people at one location and then went to a second location to start shooting more. You could say that you were just trying to avoid the same thing. BTW that shooting was stopped by a lady with a CCW permit and wounded the guy to the point where he took his own life.

She could have also just nagged him to death.

[Sarge47]

You could. You could say that alien's were about to beam him up, too. I don't happen to think either story would cut mustard with the state's attorney, which is who you have to convince. I also don't happen to think anyone that has argued in favor of dropping him after he stopped shooting would do so despite their arguments that it would be okay.

You could also make the argument that since, with today's justice system, the perp usually comes out on top that becoming the perp yourself might be a good thing...just sayin'. :creepy:

[Rick]

2,266,800 adults and 86,900 juveniles would probably disagree about coming out on top since they are all in a cell some place.

[Sarge47]

2,266,800 adults and 86,900 juveniles would probably disagree about coming out on top since they are all in a cell some place.
The man who brutally murdered my wife's sister is a free man today...just sayin'. :confused1:

[Sarge47]

You got to understand the Colorado mind set, they're a bunch of cowboys over that way. Once, when I lived in Colorado Springs, two guys tried to rob a cowboy bar. By the time the police arrived the cowboys were still working the two guys over. The police just laughed and hauled the two guys off to the hoosegow. No charges were filed against the cowboys, and you never seen two bad guys so glad to get arrested in your life! :smartass:

[sgtmcboom]

I think this may be the first documented time that a AR-15 jamming has saved american lives.

[sgtmcboom]

why isnt he being charged for terrorism? Thats what it is

[jhnnymwr75]

Well, everyone was talking about concealed carry permits, what if your underage and don't have one like myself? if I was there and I was done sh*tin my britches, i'd hope that I was in a alcoholic theater, funny what a bottle of alcohol, ripped clothing or some kind of 'fuse' and a lighter can do to a person. Although, that just might do more harm to those around, than the guy himself. All i'm saying is I would try something if I wasn't dead, blacking out, or wounded severely. I'm more than willing to get time if it means at least one persons life was saved, especially a child. I'd hate myself if I didn't do something, gun or not you have your options. I would throw my body in front of the bullets if I could to save women and children because that is how I was raised. And honestly I don't think I would want to live threw an event like that. But the guy needs some serious punishment. But that's just my two cents, and maybe its not matured enough for this kind of subject yet.

[balendor]

IF someone with a CCW had been there at the very least they could have provided some covering fire and bought some time for the others to get out. that being said I do not know that its a survivable position to be in with a handgun but neither is being there armed and not doing anything to help.

[sgtmcboom]

The theater was apparently a no firearms allowed area. I am so glad the killer followed those rules. I think rules like that are just like putting a big bullseye on the theater. Also why did the exit door opening not set off any alarms?

[hunter63]

Colorado gun sales and background checks jump 41%:
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/gun-sales-aurora-colorado-shooting-spike-tuscon-161409369--finance.html

[Rick]

everyone was talking about concealed carry permits, what if your underage and don't have one like myself?

You have two options. Learn to run or hang around with a guy a bit larger than you (I'm thinking shield here).

[Sarge47]

You have two options. Learn to run or hang around with a guy a bit larger than you (I'm thinking shield here). [/COLOR]

...or wear Kevlar to the movies...just sayin'...:creepy:

[BENESSE]

Martial arts & Krav Maga will help you fill that time til you get the CCW.

[Celticwarrior]

...or wear Kevlar to the movies...just sayin'...:creepy:



http://www.spyegg.com/bulletproof-trench-coat.htm
http://www.amazon.com/Ballistic-Bullet-resistant-kevlar-clothing/dp/B007Y5IQZK

Pretty bad when you have to DRESS like Batman to go and SEE "Batman"!

[Winter]

Has anyone wondered how an unemployed med student had $20,000 of gear?

Something really stinks here and it ain't me, I showered this morning.

[Celticwarrior]

The guy was 24 and had been a student pretty much all his life. I had friends of mine that got the money from mom and dad to go to school and took out student loans and grants, and got credit cards based on that income, and did things like bought cars, furnished entire apartments, and took expensive trips overseas with the loan money. It doesn't seem at all unusual that this guy had a bunch of money to use on buying weapons and ammo, especially if he assumed he would not be resuming his life after the attack.

[Winter]

Ok, I can agree with that.

Wasn't he overly depressed at his lack of money though?

[BENESSE]

The murderer had a 24K stipend from school and I'm sure he used credit cards liberally.

[Sarge47]

The murderer had a 24K stipend from school and I'm sure he used credit cards liberally.

Also he may have got lucky at yard sales! :creepy:

[BENESSE]

Not where ya'll shop.

[Winter]

There's nothing here that can't be turned into a joke.

Ever heard the term "too soon"

[Celticwarrior]

Ok, I can agree with that.

Wasn't he overly depressed at his lack of money though?

Never heard that in any of the interviews with family or acquaintances. His family isn't well off but they aren't hurting either. He was in a really good graduate program. He had his own apartment and car, and didn't seem to be in any financial trouble. From everything I have read, his big problem was that his grades in the PhD program he was taking were considerably lower than his previous grades from University of California, and as a result, he was concerned that he wasn't going to pass the program. He dropped out voluntarily in May as a result. His professor was quoted as saying he'd heard Holmes described as 'a genius', and felt that was wholly untrue based on his academic record to date.

[BENESSE]

There's nothing here that can't be turned into a joke.

Ever heard the term "too soon"

No I have not. That's why I'm here...to learn from those more enlightened.

[Celticwarrior]

Ahhh, and so the freaky, scary copycat wackos start to come out of the woodwork. I think I'll wait for DVD on this one. http://news.yahoo.com/3-arrested-separate-dark-knight-incidents-080930278.html

[crashdive123]

Has anyone wondered how an unemployed med student had $20,000 of gear?

Something really stinks here and it ain't me, I showered this morning.

My guess is that he used the grant money that he received. http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/07/24/james-holmes-received-26k-grant-from-bethesda-based-national-institutes-of-health/

[Sarge47]

This is not totally unexpected!

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/wake-tragedies-lawyers-step-colorado-shooting-survivor-plans-172430871.html :detective:

[hunter63]

sadly , No it is not unexpected......then the book deal, Today show......

[Rick]

You just wait until the other worldly aliens show up.....

"Have you been visited by aliens from another planet? You may be entitled to compensation. Don't wait! You're time to file is limited. You may not have to go to court. Contact Dewey, Cheatum and Howe. We get no money unless we win your case."

Or.....

"Have you been threatened by zombies. I've been there. I feel your pain. Choose the lawyer that's been run out of town by zombies. Call 1-800-Zom Bies. That's 1-800-Zom Bies and ask for me, I. M. Greedy, the zombie lawyer. Use our drive through for quicker service."

[colorado plainsman]

You just wait until the other worldly aliens show up.....

"Have you been visited by aliens from another planet? You may be entitled to compensation. Don't wait! You're time to file is limited. You may not have to go to court. Contact Dewey, Cheatum and Howe. We get no money unless we win your case."

Or.....

"Have you been threatened by zombies. I've been there. I feel your pain. Choose the lawyer that's been run out of town by zombies. Call 1-800-Zom Bies. That's 1-800-Zom Bies and ask for me, I. M. Greedy, the zombie lawyer. Use our drive through for quicker service."

Do they cost you an arm and a leg or do they accept brains?

[colorado plainsman]

I was in Aurora today and had to drive down Peoria where the apartment is. It's still roped off and lot's of LEO's and news media around.

[Crabapple Plum]

Do they cost you an arm and a leg or do they accept brains?

I have no brains with which to pay.

[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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Гали (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/305348)Will (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/294137)отве (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/304249)Coll (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/601915)Mont (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/602636)Niki (http://jobstress.ru/t/602597)FABR (http://jogformation.ru/t/606163)Conc (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/549878)Aich (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/543421)Omsa (http://journallubricator.ru/t/141090)Pari (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/525749)XVII (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/298592)Pete (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/305223)Gerh (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/305183)новы (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/304326)
Haji (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/325044)acqu (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/334476)Marc (http://kentishglory.ru/t/630247)ликв (http://kerbweight.ru/t/242200)ВеÑ�н (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/338420)Ð�тмо (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/297376)Ñ�ред (http://keyserum.ru/t/273094)gran (http://kickplate.ru/t/157377)Fuxi (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/604146)Zone (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/605203)Ñ�ере (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/608473)Ñ�тра (http://kinozones.ru/film/8256)Fuxi (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/604176)менÑ� (http://kneejoint.ru/t/604413)ЦÐ*23 (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/611120)
Gray (http://knockonatom.ru/t/448084)Fuxi (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/604118)Жари (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/196398)Robe (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/770547)Zone (http://laborracket.ru/t/157509)Jeme (http://labourearnings.ru/t/240088)Прав (http://labourleasing.ru/t/333988)Минч (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/655213)Lari (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/555558)Erne (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/512666)Paul (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/511638)Пром (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/294753)1790 (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/172090)Труб (http://laggingload.ru/t/278202)Harl (http://laissezaller.ru/t/297487)
Grah (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/171765)Берт (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/296835)Бала (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/284904)Лазе (http://lamphouse.ru/t/419787)Pelh (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/293118)Gard (http://lancingdie.ru/t/166437)Ð�ака (http://landingdoor.ru/t/257905)Fran (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/362930)феÑ�Ñ‚ (http://landreform.ru/t/468097)Ð*азз (http://landuseratio.ru/t/296712)Coli (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/654185)197а (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1858826)хоро (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/1827110)CMOS (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/1809)Elec (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/1030789)

[yellowcab]

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Ñ�ерт (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/1032791)Mand (http://oceanmining.ru/shop/570138)Brit (http://octupolephonon.ru/shop/571251)авто (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/1154408)Свет (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/1257009)ВаÑ�и (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/323164)Fant (http://onesticket.ru/shop/584510)ЛитÐ* (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/585678)Дере (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/689952)ЛитÐ* (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/690919)ЛитÐ* (http://palmberry.ru/shop/956526)ЛитÐ* (http://papercoating.ru/shop/683190)Лите (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/1690677)Harr (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1710493)Храм (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1178356)
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Звер (http://scarcecommodity.ru/shop/1932124)Тихо (http://scrapermat.ru/shop/1950508)Andr (http://screwingunit.ru/shop/1964114)рома (http://seawaterpump.ru/shop/1977275)Леде (http://secondaryblock.ru/shop/1464417)Offe (http://secularclergy.ru/shop/1498723)�тан (http://seismicefficiency.ru/shop/1611777)Соло (http://selectivediffuser.ru/shop/1658968)прои (http://semiasphalticflux.ru/shop/1680656)454- (http://semifinishmachining.ru/shop/1715966)CMOS (http://spicetrade.ru/spice_zakaz/1809)CMOS (http://spysale.ru/spy_zakaz/1809)CMOS (http://stungun.ru/stun_zakaz/1809)�гее (http://tacticaldiameter.ru/shop/1737886)окон (http://tailstockcenter.ru/shop/1766602)
Ð*убл (http://tamecurve.ru/shop/1773769)Viki (http://tapecorrection.ru/shop/1776916)asto (http://tappingchuck.ru/shop/1785626)Pipp (http://taskreasoning.ru/shop/506282)Nort (http://technicalgrade.ru/shop/1856164)Мака (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru/shop/1901968)прак (http://telescopicdamper.ru/shop/1973452)Коро (http://temperateclimate.ru/shop/905809)Граб (http://temperedmeasure.ru/shop/943819)Кири (http://tenementbuilding.ru/shop/986610)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)Соде (http://ultramaficrock.ru/shop/988891)Sara (http://ultraviolettesting.ru/shop/488704)

[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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