question about edge grinds on knifes

[Thaddius Bickerton]

why do most knifes not have the edge extend as far back toward the handle as possible instead having a choil or a fall line or some such with a portion of the blade left dull if not perfectly flat?

Is there a logic beyond it looks good, or normal to it ?

I have one old timer that towards the handle the sharpened part becomes wedge shaped moving to the full width of the blade just before the handle. This one time i find it useful because inserting it into the pelvic bones when cleaning a deer and pushing up to this point kind of splits the bone and I can usually pop it open with a quick twist so for that is is useful.

Just that on my more normal use knives the edge stopping short always leaves me having to choke up to use where the edge starts, especially on my larger blades. To my minds eye having the edge come back farther either gives me more edge to use or would allow a shorter blade with the same edge.

I can see wanting a longer blade for many uses (i do often) but I'm missing the reason why it stops short of the handle.

look at a typical bowie, it has a 9 or 10 inch blade but no edge for the inch or inch and a half from the handle front to where it begins. I keep thinking why ? I could have a nice sharp part there for some things and then let it evolve into a convex further forward if I wanted.

It is one of the things I like about mora knives is the way their full length offers edge to use.

But I cannot help but feel I'm missing out on some obvious logic that I just cannot get my mind around.

It is also one of the reasons I'm looking at the becker bk9 with such interest, the edge goes back with just a short bit before the handle. No apparent wasted length. And that knife gets a fair amount of praise.

So any insight / or just even tradition as the reason?

Before I grind out my next blade I'd like to think about this a bit more and the more input I get the more likely I am to figure out my whys.

Thank ya'll for the help in advance

Thad.

[crashdive123]

My way of thinking on it goes something like this.....if you thin the metal on the area of the knife that often becomes a stress point, then you are weakening the overall strength or the blade. I don't know if that is right or wrong.....just my way of looking at it.

[Thaddius Bickerton]

Thanks crashdive I know that it has been on blades for a long time, so someone somewhere would have tried the other ways and found them not so good.

Also as we all know intended use has a large impact on things. I don't really find it a challenge to adapt a new blade to what I want to do,

It is just the never ending search for that one magic perfect blade that is.. Well if I could describe it , i'd have it. but I bet ya know what i am feeling.

Thad.

[finallyME]

Two reasons that I can think of, but I'm no expert.

1. easier to sharpen because the handle isn't in the way. Sometimes it happens with my mora.
2. A place to put your finger when doing fine work.

Okay, 3 reasons.
3. A spot to stamp a mark.

[Bush Monkey]

Many knives have features that serve no functional/utilitarian purpose and in some instances, are dysfunctional. I offer a full aft bevel on my knives. It depends on what the user wants.

http://www.bushmonkeyknives.com/IMG_1305.jpg

An interesting YouTube video on flat and convex bevels:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j8V-Rcyj4s&feature=player_embedded

[Dwane Oliver]

Here is my thoughts on it , I'm no expert either by the way, just my opinion.
The Ricasso serves many purposes. Here are a few I can think of.
It ends the cutting edge and begins the handle of the knife. This creates a strong start to the handle. I have seen people make them WAY too large ,IMHO it only needs to be about a 1/4" long behind the edge.
Safety , I dont want to make a knife that is unsafe to use. The ricasso/heel of the blade acts as a guard for the user as well.
UNLESS
Its a hidden tang knife and is going to have a guard, then I guess it could do without the heel. BUT , a full flat grind ( that goes all the way to the spine ) has got to have a plunge line somewhere , and if its mid way up the blade where it comes out of the ricasso , I think that would cause a stress riser, and a weak point.
As someone else said , its a good place to put the makers mark, keeps it safe from alot of abuse.
IMHO it just looks good to have a nice well proportioned ricasso.

The one thing about it is everyone has an opinion, and they are entitled to it. This is just mine.

Dwane

[Thaddius Bickerton]

I like a dab of one, just not the inches I see on some.

bushmonkey, now that a type of setup I like. The blade lacks any wasted edge.

I'm probably just the way I am because I spend a lot of time using stuff like old hickory's and such and could sharpen em all the way back pretty easy.

then I get a knife and can't do a lot of stuff without putting my hand off the handle to "choke' up on it when if it went back all the way I could keep my hand on the handle.

Still on the hunt for the perfect blade.

And aesthetics do play into a blade from beauty aspect. A kephart blade is about as plain jane as it gets and yet having used one of that style the way it performs makes it dang purdy to me.

I ask a lot out of my knife and still haven't come up with one that makes me 100% happy, probably never will, but I keep trying.

What I'm hoping to do is come up with something that is my half way passable knife skills make, then when I'm pretty sure I like it enough I'm gonna get one of ya'll pro's to turn it into something worthy of passing on to my kids.

Thad.

[Wildthang]

The point where the blade leaves the handle would be a possible shear point if the blade was beveled all the way to that point. So in my opinion, it adds strength to a full tang knife, and elliminates that shear point!

[Thaddius Bickerton]

The point where the blade leaves the handle would be a possible shear point if the blade was beveled all the way to that point. So in my opinion, it adds strength to a full tang knife, and elliminates that shear point!

So the plunge line is stronger if it is in front of the end of the handle? Sort of spread the stress from one location all over kind of like keeping your hands and feet of four rungs of a questionable ladder.

Interesting thought.

I never much noticed it cause I don't really pry with my knifes. Still another concept to add to my list of things to attempt to understand.

I still love being on the quest for the perfect blade.

Sometimes I'm on the quest for fire

Sometimes the quest for food / camp cookery

Always on a quest though. Adds spice to life, Huh?

[Wildthang]

So the plunge line is stronger if it is in front of the end of the handle? Sort of spread the stress from one location all over kind of like keeping your hands and feet of four rungs of a questionable ladder.

Interesting thought.

I never much noticed it cause I don't really pry with my knifes. Still another concept to add to my list of things to attempt to understand.

I still love being on the quest for the perfect blade.

Sometimes I'm on the quest for fire

Sometimes the quest for food / camp cookery

Always on a quest though. Adds spice to life, Huh?

How about the quest to totally understand women:scared:

[Thaddius Bickerton]

How about the quest to totally understand women:scared:

All I can say on that is that women always look for meanings in everything, men tend to be what you see it what you get.

Two different ways of interpreting the world, and thus confusion.

The only advice I give my kids is be yourself and if someone you take up with can't stand you and or makes you unhappy move on.

Life is to short to spend trying to change things that can't be changed.

And no matter how much people think they can change the other person, only each individual can change themselves, and if they change to make someone besides themselves happy then they will be unhappy and it will make a problem that never heals and usually ends in tragedy.

the short answer is that some mysteries will never be solved

women

the perfect knife

many many others.

Still we all continue the quest. Perhaps is gives us reason to keep on keeping on.

[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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инфо (http://scarcecommodity.ru)инфо (http://scrapermat.ru)инфо (http://screwingunit.ru)инфо (http://seawaterpump.ru)инфо (http://secondaryblock.ru)инфо (http://secularclergy.ru)инфо (http://seismicefficiency.ru)инфо (http://selectivediffuser.ru)инфо (http://semiasphalticflux.ru)инфо (http://semifinishmachining.ru)инфо (http://spicetrade.ru)инфо (http://spysale.ru)инфо (http://stungun.ru)инфо (http://tacticaldiameter.ru)инфо (http://tailstockcenter.ru)
инфо (http://tamecurve.ru)инфо (http://tapecorrection.ru)инфо (http://tappingchuck.ru)инфо (http://taskreasoning.ru)инфо (http://technicalgrade.ru)инфо (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)инфо (http://telescopicdamper.ru)инфо (http://temperateclimate.ru)инфо (http://temperedmeasure.ru)инфо (http://tenementbuilding.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)инфо (http://ultramaficrock.ru)инфо (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)

[yellowcab]

http://geartreating.ruhttp://hadronicannihilation.ruhttp://getintoaflap.ruhttp://gashbucket.ruhttp://scarcecommodity.ruhttp://kerrrotation.ruhttp://hailsquall.ruhttp://heavydutymetalcutting.ruhttp://hazardousatmosphere.ruhttp://mammasdarling.ruhttp://heatageingresistance.ruhttp://laborracket.ruhttp://kaposidisease.ruhttp://landuseratio.ruhttp://offlinesystem.ru
http://lacingcourse.ruhttp://semiasphalticflux.ruhttp://packedspheres.ruhttp://neatplaster.ruhttp://gaussianfilter.ruhttp://secularclergy.ruhttp://hardasiron.ruhttp://kleinbottle.ruhttp://cottagenet.ruhttp://laminatedmaterial.ruhttp://selectivediffuser.ruhttp://papercoating.ruhttp://objectmodule.ruhttp://jobstress.ruhttp://getthebounce.ru
http://gardeningleave.ruhttp://olibanumresinoid.ruhttp://temperedmeasure.ruhttp://readingmagnifier.ruhttp://quasimoney.ruhttp://reachthroughregion.ruhttp://haphazardwinding.ruhttp://hangonpart.ruhttp://eyesvision.ruhttp://naturalfunctor.ruhttp://landmarksensor.ruhttp://knifesethouse.ruhttp://heartofgold.ruhttp://satellitehydrology.ruhttp://gasreturn.ru
http://radialchaser.ruhttp://quadrupleworm.ruhttp://lactogenicfactor.ruhttp://haltstate.ruhttp://rabbetledge.ruhttp://latrinesergeant.ruhttp://juicecatcher.ruhttp://lacrimalpoint.ruhttp://jogformation.ruhttp://magneticequator.ruhttp://haemagglutinin.ruhttp://sagprofile.ruhttp://hatchholddown.ruhttp://samplinginterval.ruhttp://galvanometric.ru
http://seawaterpump.ruhttp://laserpulse.ruhttp://spysale.ruhttp://rattlesnakemaster.ruhttp://labourleasing.ruhttp://safedrilling.ruhttp://screwingunit.ruhttp://gaffertape.ruhttp://oceanmining.ruhttp://nationalcensus.ruhttp://keyserum.ruhttp://laterevent.ruhttp://journallubricator.ruhttp://gageboard.ruhttp://haveafinetime.ru
http://tapecorrection.ruhttp://railwaybridge.ruhttp://secondaryblock.ruhttp://layabout.ruhttp://landreform.ruhttp://taskreasoning.ruhttp://nameresolution.ruhttp://radiationestimator.ruhttp://knowledgestate.ruhttp://justiciablehomicide.ruhttp://halforderfringe.ruhttp://tappingchuck.ruhttp://gangforeman.ruhttp://manualchoke.ruhttp://knockonatom.ru
http://gagrule.ruhttp://ladletreatediron.ruhttp://gatedsweep.ruhttp://geophysicalprobe.ruhttp://languagelaboratory.ruhttp://keymanassurance.ruhttp://qualitybooster.ruhttp://necroticcaries.ruhttp://rearchain.ruhttp://largeheart.ruhttp://handcoding.ruhttp://hardenedconcrete.ruhttp://gaugemodel.ruhttp://rapidgrowth.ruhttp://lammasshoot.ru
http://kentishglory.ruhttp://gallduct.ruhttp://medinfobooks.ruhttp://harmonicinteraction.ruhttp://majorconcern.ruhttp://handradar.ruhttp://hardalloyteeth.ruhttp://jibtypecrane.ruhttp://laggingload.ruhttp://offsetholder.ruhttp://kneejoint.ruhttp://scrapermat.ruhttp://habituate.ruhttp://jointsealingmaterial.ruhttp://octupolephonon.ru

[yellowcab]

http://negativefibration.ruhttp://keepsmthinhand.ruhttp://obstructivepatent.ruhttp://factoringfee.ruhttp://learningcurve.ruhttp://salestypelease.ruhttp://observationballoon.ruhttp://laissezaller.ruhttp://referenceantigen.ruhttp://telescopicdamper.ruhttp://labeledgraph.ruhttp://geriatricnurse.ruhttp://killthefattedcalf.ruhttp://rectifiersubstation.ruhttp://leadingfirm.ru
http://filmzones.ruhttp://naphtheneseries.ruhttp://gangwayplatform.ruhttp://temperateclimate.ruhttp://gascautery.ruhttp://randomcoloration.ruhttp://leadcoating.ruhttp://managerialstaff.ruhttp://lambdatransition.ruhttp://halfsiblings.ruhttp://navelseed.ruhttp://narrowmouthed.ruhttp://audiobookkeeper.ruhttp://machinesensible.ruhttp://neighbouringrights.ru
http://tenementbuilding.ruhttp://quodrecuperet.ruhttp://recordedassignment.ruhttp://leaveword.ruhttp://partialmajorant.ruhttp://reinvestmentplan.ruhttp://recessioncone.ruhttp://parasolmonoplane.ruhttp://laburnumtree.ruhttp://telangiectaticlipoma.ruhttp://redemptionvalue.ruhttp://paraconvexgroup.ruhttp://habeascorpus.ruhttp://heatinggas.ruhttp://magnetotelluricfield.ru
http://generalprovisions.ruhttp://parkingbrake.ruhttp://juxtapositiontwin.ruhttp://hartlaubgoose.ruhttp://gadwall.ruhttp://labourearnings.ruhttp://handportedhead.ruhttp://hackedbolt.ruhttp://lamphouse.ruhttp://stungun.ruhttp://quenchedspark.ruhttp://japanesecedar.ruhttp://hairysphere.ruhttp://laserlens.ruhttp://kilowattsecond.ru
http://technicalgrade.ruhttp://mp3lists.ruhttp://tacticaldiameter.ruhttp://jacketedwall.ruhttp://ultraviolettesting.ruhttp://junctionofchannels.ruhttp://seismicefficiency.ruhttp://kickplate.ruhttp://kinozones.ruhttp://lacunarycoefficient.ruhttp://palatinebones.ruhttp://keepagoodoffing.ruhttp://lasercalibration.ruhttp://lancecorporal.ruhttp://jobabandonment.ru
http://handsfreetelephone.ruhttp://gearpitchdiameter.ruhttp://tailstockcenter.ruhttp://garbagechute.ruhttp://onesticket.ruhttp://manipulatinghand.ruhttp://mailinghouse.ruhttp://hackworker.ruhttp://jointcapsule.ruhttp://palmberry.ruhttp://spicetrade.ruhttp://kingweakfish.ruhttp://regeneratedprotein.ruhttp://ultramaficrock.ruhttp://semifinishmachining.ru
http://headregulator.ruhttp://landingdoor.ruhttp://pagingterminal.ruhttp://hallofresidence.ruhttp://partfamily.rutuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)http://kondoferromagnet.ruhttp://lancingdie.ruhttp://reducingflange.ruhttp://tamecurve.ruhttp://generalizedanalysis.ruhttp://kerbweight.ruhttp://eyesvisions.com