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kyratshooter
01-24-2012, 04:27 PM
I was at the range this morning testing a new miricle gun. It was 100% with factory ammo and 100% with my 200 gn cast SWC reloads. When I switched to 230 gn lead RN I had about 50% dead primers.

I got to thinking about the time frame of those reloads. Due to some severe eyesight problems, that are now corrected through the miricle of modern medicene, this ammo can had laid dorment for nearly 20 years. I bought the 200 gn mold back in '85, so all the reloads in that lot were less than 27 years old. I had been casting with the 230 grain mold since '75-'76 so some of the RN reloads could have been up to 37 years old. In the old days I just threw everything into the ammo can as I reloaded with no thought to rotation of the inventory.

I fear time, storage conditions and lube running into the primers (back in the day excess lube could kill primers) have taken their toll. Fortunately I have used that particular ammo can down to less than 200 rounds. Looks like I have some bullet pulling to do.

I also have some shooting to do since I do not intend for the 200gn SWC loads to die of old age. They are going to get shot up.

The moral of this story?

"It's better to burn out than fade away."

Shoot them up cause they won't last forever.

crashdive123
01-24-2012, 04:48 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bOKsOveYD0

hunter63
01-24-2012, 04:52 PM
Knock on wood, I haven't had that problem.....yet,..... although there is some stuff loaded back in early eighties.
Guess I need to burn some off and see how they are.

So far the only problem I've had were cases picked up at the range, (Not from my rifle). loaded with a Lee Loader (bop a mole) and stuck in the chamber.
Now I use full case sizing, as well as trimming and a factory crimp

kyratshooter
01-24-2012, 06:28 PM
I think a big part of the problem is that back in the 70s and 80s in the area where I lived we could not get supplies, espically for bullet casting. We could get primers and powder but things like bullet lube were not locally available and there was no internet to order from back then. You simply "made do", and that sometimes ment you were using "experimental" lubes, stepped bullets with no gas checks and sometimes we did not have the proper sizing dies.

Lubing sometimes ment rolling the bullets around in a pie pan filled with combinations of parifin, vasiline, beeswax and melted coloring crayons. Not all the bases were wiped perfectly clean and ther was plenty of lube residue coating everything when we finished loading. If you were doing long runs you would have to pull the seating stem out of the die and run a cleaning rod through the die every 150-200 rounds or the bullets would start deep seating due to lube buildup.

Also keep in mind that we were doing high volume loading on single stage presses. Progressive presses were what Winchester and Remington had, not us hobby loaders. At one time I had three presses set up, one for resizing, one for expanding and one for seating/crimping. I was casting/loading/shooting 1000 rounds a week in both .38 and .45. That was two or three evenings reloading work back in those days.

We were shooting them up as fast as we could load them and I never figured I would ever have a cartridge sit for years without being fired. There was no time for lube to kill the primers even under the worst of conditions and leading the bores was just one of the hazzards of shooting. You simply scrubbed the crud out and if they got too bad we would plug the muzzle and fill the barrel with mercury.

YEP.....MERCURY!!!!

It would break the bond of the lead to the steel and the lead would peel out of the groves in strings like tin foil.

It's no wonder I have senior moments!

Anyway, we were shooting like fools and having fun and one day I woke up and could not see the sights any more. It was just that quick. Overnight, at age 38, I could no longer shoot open sights. Glasses were no help due to the close rear sight/intermediate front sight/far away target being impossible to focus uniformly. Scopes were fine due to the single sighting plane, so I kept shooting long guns with no letup.

The last batch of reloads simply sat unused until I had surgery a couple of years back. I just bought a new .45 and needed to break it in and find that...

Now they are dead...dead...dead!

TresMon
01-24-2012, 08:09 PM
Your not just getting light strikes are you??

kyratshooter
01-24-2012, 08:51 PM
Nope, good deep dimples in the primers.

Factory stuff is popping 100% as are the newer (only 25 years old) SWC reloads.

I think when I reloaded the SWC rounds Lee had just come out with their liquid lube and it does not kill the primers. I am pretty sure the RN loads were lubed with some of my makeshift crap lube. Melted perifin will kill a primer and these loads were probably stored in 100+ degree temps off and on after being frozen for a couple of winters.

I have the bullet puller out and am about to get started on these rounds. Glad to find this out now and not when I really need them.

At least now I have a turrent press, proper lube and plenty of "retirement and don't have to work" time for rebuilding them.

TresMon
01-25-2012, 07:12 AM
Gotcha. I was basing it off that it has been my experience that the older primers seemed to have harder cups than these new ones. (And Guv'ment model pistols mains springs weaken with age.) I went to a IPSC pistol match one time and discovered my main spring had taken a set. Let's just say with match pressure and with the timer bearing down on me I became really good at working through malfunctions on the fly!

Old GI
01-25-2012, 11:00 AM
Thanks for the heads-up. I have a bunch of 30-30 loads for my Thompson Contender from 1980-81. I developed my own pistol loads in that caliber for silhouettes. I used the regular store bought lube. I'll have to check those out. All that work and money and I still couldn't shoot for $%#t.

hunter63
01-25-2012, 11:17 AM
Thanks for the heads-up. I have a bunch of 30-30 loads for my Thompson Contender from 1980-81. I developed my own pistol loads in that caliber for silhouettes. I used the regular store bought lube. I'll have to check those out. All that work and money and I still couldn't shoot for $%#t.

Don't feel bad, most guns shoot better than I do as well.
I'm into scopes alot my self, because of the eye thing......was at the primitive range watch a fellow shooter that had 3 or four dove tails machined into his barrel on a long barreled Kentucky flinter....the rear sight had been moved about a foot down the barrel, toward the front sight.

I guess he saw me looking at it, and said, "Yeah eyes are going, having a hard time seeing the front and rear sjght at the same time, so I moved it forward.....when they touch ..It's time to put this SOB away."

hunter63
01-25-2012, 04:37 PM
So I am assuming that you are gonna pull the bullets, punch out the primers and start over?

My situation was cases that were too long and big at the neck to chamber......
Required pulling the bullets, but I removed the primer pushing pin out of the dies, which are full length sizing dies, w/ neck spreader and just re-sized the case, and re-loaded.

I haven't tried to push out a live primer be it good or bad....so was wondering if you have any concerns?

kyratshooter
01-25-2012, 11:12 PM
Punched out about 150 primers. About 1 out of every dozen or so of the unfired primers exploded when the decapping pin hit them. There was no powder for them to ighite so it was just a pop and flash that blew the primer out the bottom of the shell holder with a good deal of force.

That was always my hesitation when using the old style Lee mallet loader. I had one of the primners go off using one of them once and never have used a Lee classic loader again, in spite of the high reguard most have for them. I'm not hammering a slug into a primed and charged case.

I do now know that you can save a majority of the primers you punch out of unfired, salvaged ammo in a long term survival situation. One nice reason to keep a .357 around. Uses small pistol primers out of anything from a .25 auto to .40. Salvaged primers, salvaged powder and cast bullets would keep you going for years. No power levels to worry about for cycling the action.

I am not one of those people that thinks the cops and national guard are going to be handing out 9mm at the roadblocks and keeping you supplied. Nor will it be the "easiest to obtain". I still remember 3 years ago after the election when the entire ammo supply dried up. 9mm and .380 could not be found at any price. However, you could still get oddball calibers that you could recycle.

Same principle works for centerfire rifle too. Large rifle primers salvaged from anything can keep your bolt or levergun going for a long time.

TresMon
01-26-2012, 08:54 AM
Don't forget you can "reload" primers too! Pick the Anvil out of the primer cup. (Thats the 2 or three winged piece of metal you see in the cup.)
Make you an explosive pellet out of the stuff on the head of a strike anywhere match. As it's drying punch the firing pin dent in the used primers flat again. Then rebuild your primers. But know that you now have a corrosive priming compound. So after you get done shooting clean the chamber and bore, at the very least with windex.

kyratshooter
01-26-2012, 10:57 AM
Don't forget you can "reload" primers too! Pick the Anvil out of the primer cup. (Thats the 2 or three winged piece of metal you see in the cup.)
Make you an explosive pellet out of the stuff on the head of a strike anywhere match. As it's drying punch the firing pin dent in the used primers flat again. Then rebuild your primers. But know that you now have a corrosive priming compound. So after you get done shooting clean the chamber and bore, at the very least with windex.

It is just a little more complicated than that Tres. I have experimented with primers and finally found the correct chemical combination, (which we will not go into here) but they have changed match heads from the old days. The compound they use now is not as potent and you have to "jack it up" to get consistant pops. They also go dead in a heartbeat. It is worse than working with a flintlock.

Rebuilding primers is also restricted to large pistol and large rifle due to the amount of compound needed and the difficulty of dealing with the tiny components.

All of this is one of the reasons I store primers and powder. I do not have cases of ammo stacked to the ceiling, but I do have cases of primers packed in ammo cans where the humidity can not get too them. There is half a barrel of lead stored in the shed and several pounds of powder @ 2000 pistol shots per pound. I have molds and dies for everything I shoot and some calibers I do not shoot. I may trade a gun off but I never trade the reloading dies off. I let a guy borrow a set of .30 carbine dies 30 years ago and never saw them again. I still regret doing that.

I have enough primers stored that rebuilding them would be a job I taught my grandchildren, so they could keep shooting after I have been burried for several years. It will have to be face to face teaching too. If I wrote most of this down and the "wrong people" found it I would be talking to DHS agents before sunset.

Like many of us here, due to med issues most of what I do is done for the kids and grandkids. After the meds run out I will have about a year to teach them everything I know, then it will be over. There won't be any carrying books to Alcatraz ten years after the collapse for me.

TresMon
01-26-2012, 11:15 AM
I understand. I was in no way inferring that rebuilding primers is the desired way to go. I was just saying it's possible solution when the chips are down.

Like you mentioned: That's about all I'm willing to go into about it here.

hunter63
01-26-2012, 12:24 PM
I guess we kinda think the same way, on the stocking of 'precious metals"...lead and brass....and of course dies, molds and primers.

New caliber rifles and pistols are always more expensive, for me, as I consider the "fixin's as part of the package.

I do think a flint-lock in the mix is still the way to go rather than fooling with primer re-building, and that includes making caps/primers for the percussion guns as well.

Strangely, I have been intrigued by the "electric ignition" rifles on the market at the moment......which a first glance, to me, is wrong on sooooo many levels, still begs to think about or consider a "electric primer/ignition system"....Hummmm.

TresMon
01-26-2012, 01:02 PM
I guess we kinda think the same way, on the stocking of 'precious metals"...lead and brass....and of course dies, molds and primers.

New caliber rifles and pistols are always more expensive, for me, as I consider the "fixin's as part of the package.

I do think a flint-lock in the mix is still the way to go rather than fooling with primer re-building, and that includes making caps/primers for the percussion guns as well.

Strangely, I have been intrigued by the "electric ignition" rifles on the market at the moment......which a first glance, to me, is wrong on sooooo many levels, still begs to think about or consider a "electric primer/ignition system"....Hummmm.

Try fighting with a front-stuffer! If it came way,way,way down to that, for me and my house, we shall rebuild primers. Granted its highly unlikely to be down to that point but, just say'n!

hunter63
01-26-2012, 01:30 PM
Try fighting with a front-stuffer! If it came way,way,way down to that, for me and my house, we shall rebuild primers. Granted its highly unlikely to be down to that point but, just say'n!

Obviously not a ML fan......as the saying goes, "twernt no trouble'....learning and getting good at these is just another part of the big picture.

Dump powder, push bullet/ball/shot down on powder, prime it up and boom........

Trickier is loading with your eyes closed or from a bouncing saddle

TresMon
01-26-2012, 01:34 PM
Oh I like Front-stuffers. One of my goals is to take a deer with a match lock. Hopefully an original one, but that's unlikely. And I believe in having one (not say'n a match lock) in the retreat arsenal. And you can shoot arrows out of them too. (carry over from another thread) I'm just saying I'd go to rebuilding primers before I go to the ML, giving the option. Thats just me. YMMV

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инфо (http://gardeningleave.ru)инфо (http://gascautery.ru)инфо (http://gashbucket.ru)инфо (http://gasreturn.ru)инфо (http://gatedsweep.ru)инфо (http://gaugemodel.ru)инфо (http://gaussianfilter.ru)инфо (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru)инфо (http://geartreating.ru)инфо (http://generalizedanalysis.ru)инфо (http://generalprovisions.ru)инфо (http://geophysicalprobe.ru)инфо (http://geriatricnurse.ru)инфо (http://getintoaflap.ru)инфо (http://getthebounce.ru)
инфо (http://habeascorpus.ru)инфо (http://habituate.ru)инфо (http://hackedbolt.ru)инфо (http://hackworker.ru)инфо (http://hadronicannihilation.ru)инфо (http://haemagglutinin.ru)инфо (http://hailsquall.ru)инфо (http://hairysphere.ru)инфо (http://halforderfringe.ru)инфо (http://halfsiblings.ru)инфо (http://hallofresidence.ru)инфо (http://haltstate.ru)инфо (http://handcoding.ru)инфо (http://handportedhead.ru)инфо (http://handradar.ru)
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yellowcab
12-16-2025, 05:51 AM
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инфо (http://partfamily.ru)инфо (http://partialmajorant.ru)инфо (http://quadrupleworm.ru)инфо (http://qualitybooster.ru)инфо (http://quasimoney.ru)инфо (http://quenchedspark.ru)инфо (http://quodrecuperet.ru)инфо (http://rabbetledge.ru)инфо (http://radialchaser.ru)инфо (http://radiationestimator.ru)инфо (http://railwaybridge.ru)инфо (http://randomcoloration.ru)инфо (http://rapidgrowth.ru)инфо (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru)инфо (http://reachthroughregion.ru)
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yellowcab
05-25-2026, 02:04 PM
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http://lacingcourse.ruhttp://semiasphalticflux.ruhttp://packedspheres.ruhttp://neatplaster.ruhttp://gaussianfilter.ruhttp://secularclergy.ruhttp://hardasiron.ruhttp://kleinbottle.ruhttp://cottagenet.ruhttp://laminatedmaterial.ruhttp://selectivediffuser.ruhttp://papercoating.ruhttp://objectmodule.ruhttp://jobstress.ruhttp://getthebounce.ru
http://gardeningleave.ruhttp://olibanumresinoid.ruhttp://temperedmeasure.ruhttp://readingmagnifier.ruhttp://quasimoney.ruhttp://reachthroughregion.ruhttp://haphazardwinding.ruhttp://hangonpart.ruhttp://eyesvision.ruhttp://naturalfunctor.ruhttp://landmarksensor.ruhttp://knifesethouse.ruhttp://heartofgold.ruhttp://satellitehydrology.ruhttp://gasreturn.ru
http://radialchaser.ruhttp://quadrupleworm.ruhttp://lactogenicfactor.ruhttp://haltstate.ruhttp://rabbetledge.ruhttp://latrinesergeant.ruhttp://juicecatcher.ruhttp://lacrimalpoint.ruhttp://jogformation.ruhttp://magneticequator.ruhttp://haemagglutinin.ruhttp://sagprofile.ruhttp://hatchholddown.ruhttp://samplinginterval.ruhttp://galvanometric.ru
http://seawaterpump.ruhttp://laserpulse.ruhttp://spysale.ruhttp://rattlesnakemaster.ruhttp://labourleasing.ruhttp://safedrilling.ruhttp://screwingunit.ruhttp://gaffertape.ruhttp://oceanmining.ruhttp://nationalcensus.ruhttp://keyserum.ruhttp://laterevent.ruhttp://journallubricator.ruhttp://gageboard.ruhttp://haveafinetime.ru
http://tapecorrection.ruhttp://railwaybridge.ruhttp://secondaryblock.ruhttp://layabout.ruhttp://landreform.ruhttp://taskreasoning.ruhttp://nameresolution.ruhttp://radiationestimator.ruhttp://knowledgestate.ruhttp://justiciablehomicide.ruhttp://halforderfringe.ruhttp://tappingchuck.ruhttp://gangforeman.ruhttp://manualchoke.ruhttp://knockonatom.ru
http://gagrule.ruhttp://ladletreatediron.ruhttp://gatedsweep.ruhttp://geophysicalprobe.ruhttp://languagelaboratory.ruhttp://keymanassurance.ruhttp://qualitybooster.ruhttp://necroticcaries.ruhttp://rearchain.ruhttp://largeheart.ruhttp://handcoding.ruhttp://hardenedconcrete.ruhttp://gaugemodel.ruhttp://rapidgrowth.ruhttp://lammasshoot.ru
http://kentishglory.ruhttp://gallduct.ruhttp://medinfobooks.ruhttp://harmonicinteraction.ruhttp://majorconcern.ruhttp://handradar.ruhttp://hardalloyteeth.ruhttp://jibtypecrane.ruhttp://laggingload.ruhttp://offsetholder.ruhttp://kneejoint.ruhttp://scrapermat.ruhttp://habituate.ruhttp://jointsealingmaterial.ruhttp://octupolephonon.ru

yellowcab
05-25-2026, 02:05 PM
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http://filmzones.ruhttp://naphtheneseries.ruhttp://gangwayplatform.ruhttp://temperateclimate.ruhttp://gascautery.ruhttp://randomcoloration.ruhttp://leadcoating.ruhttp://managerialstaff.ruhttp://lambdatransition.ruhttp://halfsiblings.ruhttp://navelseed.ruhttp://narrowmouthed.ruhttp://audiobookkeeper.ruhttp://machinesensible.ruhttp://neighbouringrights.ru
http://tenementbuilding.ruhttp://quodrecuperet.ruhttp://recordedassignment.ruhttp://leaveword.ruhttp://partialmajorant.ruhttp://reinvestmentplan.ruhttp://recessioncone.ruhttp://parasolmonoplane.ruhttp://laburnumtree.ruhttp://telangiectaticlipoma.ruhttp://redemptionvalue.ruhttp://paraconvexgroup.ruhttp://habeascorpus.ruhttp://heatinggas.ruhttp://magnetotelluricfield.ru
http://generalprovisions.ruhttp://parkingbrake.ruhttp://juxtapositiontwin.ruhttp://hartlaubgoose.ruhttp://gadwall.ruhttp://labourearnings.ruhttp://handportedhead.ruhttp://hackedbolt.ruhttp://lamphouse.ruhttp://stungun.ruhttp://quenchedspark.ruhttp://japanesecedar.ruhttp://hairysphere.ruhttp://laserlens.ruhttp://kilowattsecond.ru
http://technicalgrade.ruhttp://mp3lists.ruhttp://tacticaldiameter.ruhttp://jacketedwall.ruhttp://ultraviolettesting.ruhttp://junctionofchannels.ruhttp://seismicefficiency.ruhttp://kickplate.ruhttp://kinozones.ruhttp://lacunarycoefficient.ruhttp://palatinebones.ruhttp://keepagoodoffing.ruhttp://lasercalibration.ruhttp://lancecorporal.ruhttp://jobabandonment.ru
http://handsfreetelephone.ruhttp://gearpitchdiameter.ruhttp://tailstockcenter.ruhttp://garbagechute.ruhttp://onesticket.ruhttp://manipulatinghand.ruhttp://mailinghouse.ruhttp://hackworker.ruhttp://jointcapsule.ruhttp://palmberry.ruhttp://spicetrade.ruhttp://kingweakfish.ruhttp://regeneratedprotein.ruhttp://ultramaficrock.ruhttp://semifinishmachining.ru
http://headregulator.ruhttp://landingdoor.ruhttp://pagingterminal.ruhttp://hallofresidence.ruhttp://partfamily.rutuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/index.php?topic=1.0)http://kondoferromagnet.ruhttp://lancingdie.ruhttp://reducingflange.ruhttp://tamecurve.ruhttp://generalizedanalysis.ruhttp://kerbweight.ruhttp://eyesvisions.com