Night Forum, Wednesday (2/20/08), 10:00pm EST

[pgvoutdoors]

For anyone that may be interested, a forum will be held on Wednesday, 2/20/08( Update: Friday Forum 2/22/08 instead of Wednesday) to discuss advanced wilderness survival skills... Log on by 8:00pm EST to post your replies to the following scenario.. A thirty minute discussion will follow.

Location: 46.214226 - 86.052573 http://maps.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTExNmIycG51BF9TAzI3MTYxNDkEc2VjA2ZwLWJ1 dHRvbgRzbGsDbGluaw--#mvt=h&lat=46.21476&lon=-86.052916&mag=13&q1=46.214226%2C-86.052573
Time of year: Early June
Situation: You find yourself alone at this location but you know where you are. How you got there isn't important. What's important is that there is no human contact within two hundred miles of this location. Disregard the road network, there is none. You're dressed in tennis shoes, cotton socks, blue jeans, flannel shirt, Carhartt work jacket, and ball cap. You're in good health but feel like you may be getting a cold.
Items on Hand: A two blade pocket knife, (2) Quarters and (3) Pennies in change, A glass Coke bottle, and A pack of gum.
Goal:To move two hundred miles in a southerly direction. Once you cross that imaginary line, you will have safely returned to civilization. The route is up to you but you can only travel by foot or watercraft that you have built.
Objectives:1. Provide yourself protection from the weather. 2. provide yourself food and water. 3. Plan a route to civilization.

Please explain in detail the choices you make, why you made them, and the methods you used to provide for yourself. What does that area provide you?
You can submit web links to describe your methods more clearly if you like.

Please put together your plan and post it on Friday evening at 8:00pm EST.:cool:

This thread has been updated! Forum is now on Friday 2/22/08 at 8:00 pm.

[nell67]

This will be too late for me,since I have to get up at 2 in the morning to go to work,but have fun.

[Beo]

The route is up to you but you can only travel by foot or watercraft that you have built.
:cool:

I'm in but I've never built feet so that would be hard:D I'll practice that skill if I can find someone to teach foot building:D

[Beo]

Figured out what I'd do already can't wait to hear others.
Great map by the way.

[pgvoutdoors]

I'm in but I've never built feet so that would be hard:D I'll practice that skill if I can find someone to teach foot building:D

Good, glad you are in. Sorry about Nell though. After a two hundred mile trek, you may wish you could build feet.:)

[Rick]

Ditto with Beo. I'm there already. Just waiting for the rest of you to get to safety?:D

[pgvoutdoors]

Just so everyone knows, I'll be in the Adirondacks through Sunday starting tomorrow. I'll be able to answer some question today and this evening but after that I'll talk to you on Monday. Thanks

[trax]

I'll be here if I can, Wednesday nights are the worst possible for me, but I'd love to get in on that so I'll try to be here.

[Assassin Pilot]

I'll be doing homework then probably. I might not be able to come.

[Beo]

If the date and time are a problem why not move it to Friday night at 10pm EST.

[pgvoutdoors]

If the date and time are a problem why not move it to Friday night at 10pm EST.

I can do it any time after this Sunday. If more people are available?

[nell67]

I still have to be up at 2 on Sat. morning

[trax]

Check how many weigh in in favor of it first. Too few responses so far, I wouldn't suggest moving anything just for one or two of us, if that's what's best for you especially pgv, after all it was your idea, but if we can move it....Wednesdays just suck for me.

[nell67]

Yea you are not going to be able to get everyone in on it everytime.

[pgvoutdoors]

Check how many weigh in in favor of it first. Too few responses so far, I wouldn't suggest moving anything just for one or two of us, if that's what's best for you especially pgv, after all it was your idea, but if we can move it....Wednesdays just suck for me.

O.K. lets see what the consensus is by this evening. I'll make a decision then. I know we can't make it good for everyone but I'll do the best I can. We may just have to have other ones on different times.

[Assassin Pilot]

yup. but I would say weekends are best

[Beo]

Don't matter to me, PVG its your puppy run with it the way you want.

[Rick]

Ditto. 78910

[Beo]

What the HEdouble hocky sticks is 78910?

[nell67]

Ok guys,what the hay is 78910????

[Rick]

Ditto is too short to post so you have to fill in with something. 78910 is the international backwoodsman code for.........I just had to fill in.

[Beo]

Yeah okay.

[nell67]

Copy that!!!!!!!

[Beo]

78910. see too short now 7891011:D

[crashdive123]

PGV - I'll try and make it either day - Friday is a bit easier for me, but survival isn't about easy.

[trax]

PGV - I'll try and make it either day - Friday is a bit easier for me, but survival isn't about easy.

--see? I have nothing to add to that, just wanted to quote "survival isn't about easy" dang that was good crash

[Rick]

Those sub guys got nothin' to do but sit around and think up witty stuff. In the old days he would have been manning the oars.

[Beo]

In the old days your navy was called Iron Clads... lol... jk Rick

[crashdive123]

Nah. That's just another name for really, really strong underware.

[BraggSurvivor]

Oh crap, cant make it. Convention in Toronto for a week, flying out friday. Wait, maybe I'll bring my play puter too. Cya there!

Cheers,

[BraggSurvivor]

Hey pgv, you anywhere near Columbus? I'm heading there on at the end of the month for UFC 82. Ringside row 3 on the 50.....yeah baby!

[pgvoutdoors]

O.K. everyone, the final date and time for the forum is Friday 2/22/08 at 8:00 pm. I hope this works for a few more people. If not, look forward to other forums like this in the future. See you next week!:D

[pgvoutdoors]

Hey pgv, you anywhere near Columbus? I'm heading there on at the end of the month for UFC 82. Ringside row 3 on the 50.....yeah baby!

No, I live three hours northeast of Columbus, in the northeast corner of the state. Sorry...:(

[wareagle69]

i'll be there on friday i've gotta few things to say about how everytime these scenarios come up we are just magically transported there w/o equipment in the rangers they taught us to always be prepared(or was that the cub scouts) i would never be caught 200 miles from nowhere w/o equipment(unless i just escaped from prison) in which case beo is always typing on his computer so i'll just bumpertag him back to the donut shop..

always be prepared.

[prrrfukt]

I will try to make it, Friday will be easier for me because sun-thurs i have to go to sleep with the chickens to wake up at ungodly hours :), although i have hardly any experience in this sort of thing, i think it would be interesting to give it a shot...the worst that can happen is i learn a few tricks of the trade :)

[Rick]

You Ranger troublemakers are all alike. PGV sent you there in his transporter and you're lucky he didn't drop you there in your skivvies.

NOTE: To all Rangers (see, I capitalized that out of respect) everywhere. Just a joke. I don't wish to die a silent death (or any other kind for that matter).

[Beo]

I'm with WE on this one, and thanks Twinkie for capitalizing:D and making trouble is what what we're good at, destroying trouble is the end result, drive on though you be the lone survivor.
WE as a fellow Ranger it'd be my duty to see you made to your destination:D Rangers Lead the Way bro,

[pgvoutdoors]

Hello Everyone,
I'm back from the Adirondacks, it was a great trip and we had a lot of fun. I'll be available most of this week if you have any questions about Friday's forum. I hope many of you can make it and have given some thought of what you would do under the situation that has been given.

There will be no need to debate how you got there or why you were not better prepared. This is a training scenario that is designed to test your skills under a limited situation. We all know that preparation is key to going into the wild. Focus on what you have available, what the land has to offer, and the objective of traveling through that terrain for two hundred miles. Focus on what you have and not what you don't have.:D

[wareagle69]

ok i'll play along with your "training" exercise but the guys who rely on their knives and tents are really gonna be upset that they can't have their pacifiers with them.

[pgvoutdoors]

I believe most of the people interested in this scenario will have more advanced skills and will work their way through it. There's many options that can be applied, no one answer is best. The more they look into it, describing their decisions, and applying a plan of action, the better the response to the forum. Others can compare and learn at the same time.

[pgvoutdoors]

I can not change the thread name so this is a reminder that the forum will be held on Friday at 8:00 pm. I would like to give a few topics for thought; check the terrain, general weather conditions for that time of the year, and estimated time of travel. The more information you can provide the better, show off your skills and your decision making progress. Remember that other people will learn from your postings. I hope many of you can attend. :D

See you Friday,
PGV

[Rick]

I just thought I'd post a reminder for PGV that the forum will be held this evening. This is a bump.

[Beo]

Koooooool I'm there:D

[pgvoutdoors]

Thanks Rick for keeping the forum updated. Tonight should be a good time plus a testing ground for possible future scheduled forums. I'm sure they're a few people out there that have some ideas for hosting a forum.

Everyone be sure to read the first posting as it describes the survival situation we will be discussing. A complete answer to the scenario is preferred but not required. Please describe in detail your ideas for any part of the scenario.

See you tonight at 8:00pm U.S. EST! :D

[Rick]

bump to top

[pgvoutdoors]

Good evening everyone. In a few moments we will start tonight's forum. It will run from 8:00pm to 8:30 pm EST. I've been looking forward to what all of you have come up with. Talk to you in a few minutes.
PGV :D

[Beo]

Items on Hand: A two blade pocket knife, (2) Quarters and (3) Pennies in change, A glass Coke bottle, and A pack of gum.
Goal:To move two hundred miles in a southerly direction. Once you cross that imaginary line, you will have safely returned to civilization. The route is up to you but you can only travel by foot or watercraft that you have built.
Objectives:1. Provide yourself protection from the weather. 2. provide yourself food and water. 3. Plan a route to civilization.

Travel on foot towards river, at river edge build a raft of logs using vine to tie together, float down stream for 200 miles all the while chewing my gum :D, stopping along the way to hit squirrels with a rock and cook them, using my knife to gut them and filling glass coke bottle with water from river to drink. During the day make a fire on raft using a large hunk of thick bark that is soaked in river water and wet so as not to burn, using glass bottle and sun start fire using cattail fluff or dried moss, if that don't work use fire bow, after some time I come to safe ground. If that don't work I go by foot and force march outta there and suck up the cold cause I'm a former RANGER and never give up!!! Hooooya!!!
Beo,

[Rick]

How do you want to do this, PGV?

[Beo]

Ohc crap, sorry if I did that wrong, my bad. Back now had to get some salsa and chips :D

[pgvoutdoors]

Well, I would like to get the first few ideas posted, then I can lead everyone in a direction of discussion. At any point, all of you can chime in if you feel the urge to ask for details.

[Rick]

Do you want us to post our plan first?

[Sam]

I'm gonna build a chariot and have a huge pack of squirrels pull it. (joking)

[pgvoutdoors]

Yes, please

[Rick]

Some considerations. The most direct route means crossing water. Lot’s of it. The most narrow crossing would be at Machinaw Bridge (but we know the bridge isn’t there for this game). That’s still over 4 miles of open water at around 55F in early June. Plus there are strong currents so my odds of making it straight across, alive, even on a warm June day are about zilch no matter what I use to cross. The cotton blue jeans and flannel shirt will only add to the hypothermia problem.

Day time temperatures could be just about anything in early June so I’ll have to be prepared for cold weather during the day, just in case, and maybe even frigid at night.

So my only viable option would be to head West Southwest 50 miles around Lake Michigan and then turn south 100 miles to safety. That will keep me on dry land but take a lot longer. If I can average 15 miles a day then I should make it in 10 days. I’ll give myself a total of 15 days just so I’m mentally prepared. There is not a lot of elevation change in my route of choice. In fact, it’s fairly flat. The whole route averages around 700 feet above see level.

I’ll need to take a heading of 245 or 250 degrees to keep me from running into the shoreline and having to walk around all the coves and inlets but I’ll also want to stay close enough for water if I can’t find any on my route.

To figure out my heading, I’ll use a compass stick. I’ll poke a three foot stick in the ground and place a smaller stick at the tip of the shadow the larger stick makes. In about an hour, the shadow will have moved and I’ll place another smaller stick at the tip of the new shadow. The line formed by the two smaller sticks will give me an east west grid. 90 degrees from that will be north south. Since I know south is 180 degrees and west is 270 degrees I’ll have to eyeball between the two and pick some point on the horizon that sits near my 245 degree heading. I’ll be walking toward that object.

http://www.learn-orienteering.org/old/nocompass1.html

From a survival perspective 15 days is doable. I might even be able to do it without food if I had to but I sure don’t want to. I’ll stay near the shoreline, at least close enough for water, so my only real considerations will be fire, shelter and food.

My ability to make fire with sticks is really bad so I’m going to be without fire unless I can find some flint or chirt both of which can be found in Michigan. And there are a lot of rock outcroppings around Lake Michigan that could serve up some flint. I’ll use my pocket knife as a striker if I get lucky. I will not even attempt to make fire with sticks because I know I’m bad at it and don’t want to waist valuable time and energy when I know the end result. So I’ll be on the lookout for flint and some tinder fungus. That will also help keep my mind occupied and focused on something other than my problem.

I might try to focus the sunlight through the coke bottle during a rest break and see if I can just get lucky and catch a spark but I won’t waist a lot of time with that either. It will be more of a “pass the time” endeavor.

The coke bottle will be my water bottle. But since I don’t have anyway to sterilize it I’m stuck drinking raw lake or stream water unless I find some flint very soon. If I do then I can use the bottle to boil the water and sterilize it.

My shelter will be a debris hut since I won’t have fire. I can stuff my Carhart jacket with leaves, pine needles or grass if I need additional insulation for the night. I can use my socks for gloves stuffed with grass if it gets cold enough. Stuff my tennis shoes with grass to keep my feet warm and fashion a grass “balaclava” to stuff under my ball cap.

I will take time to whittle a spear, probably the first night. It won’t be fire hardened but at least it will be sharp. I’ll be checking small pools and tributaries for any small fish, snakes or grayfish I can spear or catch and like it or not, eat them raw.

The chewing gum is going to be saved. I can use the sugar for additional energy but I’ll only do that when I think I really have to have it. If worse comes to worse and I contract dysentery from the raw water then my body will really need the sugar.

The foil wrapper could be used for signaling and the paper outer wrapper for fire tinder if I can find that elusive flint. I’ll scrape some cotton fiber from my blue jeans or, if I’m lucky, I’ll find some lint in the pockets. I could even pluck some cotton fibers from my socks. I can use that to catch a spark and along with the paper wrapper and some dry grass get a fire going.

Rain is a real concern. If I get wet, I’m going to be cold and with no fire making ability and my cotton clothes that could spell disaster. If it looks like a squall is coming in off the lake or it looks like rain is likely I’ll either stay put in my debris hut and wait it out or if it’s in the middle of the day I’ll look for a nice thick evergreen tree to take shelter under. I don’t like a tree in a thunderstorm but I wouldn’t like dying of hypothermia either. I’ll have to stay dry to stay alive if the temperatures aren’t very warm.

I don’t think this is a particularly bad or difficult scenario unless I’m stuck the entire trip without the ability to make fire. Fire would make this trip a whole lot more comfortable, sanitary and safer from a food, water and warmth perspective. The rest will just be mental knowing I have at least 10 days or more of travel. I’m not worried about food in June because there will be plenty of insects, worms and ant larvae about even if I don’t get lucky hunting the shallow pools.

[Sam]

PGV, what are we wearing for clothes? Sorry I missed that part.

[pgvoutdoors]

Items on Hand: A two blade pocket knife, (2) Quarters and (3) Pennies in change, A glass Coke bottle, and A pack of gum.
Goal:To move two hundred miles in a southerly direction. Once you cross that imaginary line, you will have safely returned to civilization. The route is up to you but you can only travel by foot or watercraft that you have built.
Objectives:1. Provide yourself protection from the weather. 2. provide yourself food and water. 3. Plan a route to civilization.

Travel on foot towards river, at river edge build a raft of logs using vine to tie together, float down stream for 200 miles all the while chewing my gum :D, stopping along the way to hit squirrels with a rock and cook them, using my knife to gut them and filling glass coke bottle with water from river to drink. During the day make a fire on raft using a large hunk of thick bark that is soaked in river water and wet so as not to burn, using glass bottle and sun start fire using cattail fluff or dried moss, if that don't work use fire bow, after some time I come to safe ground. If that don't work I go by foot and force march outta there and suck up the cold cause I'm a former RANGER and never give up!!! Hooooya!!!
Beo,

What river are you using?

[pgvoutdoors]

PGV, what are we wearing for clothes?

It's in the first posting

[pgvoutdoors]

Has anyone figured out the terrain and weather at the starting location?

[Rick]

Early June temperatures can be anything from chilly to warm. Terrain is sandy and mostly flat. At least that's what I came up with.

[pgvoutdoors]

Early June temperatures can be anything from chilly to warm. Terrain is sandy and mostly flat. At least that's what I came up with.

Average temperatures: 51/75 record low 24 Junes precipitation: 3.10 in.

[crashdive123]

Fairly flat with lots of wetlands

[pgvoutdoors]

Find more info on the terrain, Very important!

[pgvoutdoors]

Fairly flat with lots of wetlands

Yes, very wet!

[Beo]

I'm still working on it.

[pgvoutdoors]

Would any of you consider traveling the Great Lakes?

[Rick]

Not me. the water temperature that time of year is around 55F.

[hillbilly1987]

Would any of you consider traveling the Great Lakes?


i would very much becouse i live here in michigan

[Beo]

I said that, go to river west of the location, take the river into the lakes staying just off shore on my lil raft. following rivers south as I get to them.

[Beo]

Water temp is warmer than 55 I have swam inErie in June.

[crashdive123]

Water's cold, no distinct prevailing winds (that I could find) if weather comes up - no shelter- probably not.

[pgvoutdoors]

Under these wet conditions, do you stay put for a while sense your feeling like you're getting a cold.

[Rick]

This isn't southern Lake Erie it's northern Lake Michigan.

[pgvoutdoors]

What is the best wood in that area for making a bow & drill fire starter?

[Beo]

I'd hit the lakes, quicker mode of travel south.

[pgvoutdoors]

This is southern Lake Erie it's northern Lake Michigan.

Your north of Lake Michigan, The upper peninsula

[Rick]

Here are the surface temps for June 5, 2007:

http://www.coastwatch.msu.edu/michigan/archive/m1/Jun05/evening_1830EDT.gif

[Beo]

Trudging it out in wetlands if it gets cold is gonna hurt you, a raft in the lakes is quicker travel, stop to build fires as you go steadily heading south.

[Rick]

Yes, PGV but you asked about using the Great Lakes. That would put you in northern Lake Michigan. Take to the water and you'll die of hypothermia.

[Beo]

Well out there you don't have your handy dandy map Rick you were dropped off, I'm going by where he said we were and what we had, not hunting it up on the web.

[pgvoutdoors]

Here are the surface temps for June 5, 2007:

http://www.coastwatch.msu.edu/michigan/archive/m1/Jun05/evening_1830EDT.gif

If Lake Michigan temps are in the 40's, how cold do you think the marsh temperatures would be? How would this effect your travel plans?

[Rick]

But he said you know where you are. That implied to me I know the area. If that's the case then I would know the water is still cold.

[Beo]

Take to the water and you'll die of hypothermia.

Not in necessarily, and you can take 55 degree water temps. stopping at night for building a fire.

[Rick]

I still have to travel by land. I don't have a choice because I can't build a fire with sticks. It would certainly slow me down.

[Beo]

So if I walk up to you and say do you know where bumfu*k egypt is you can say why yes and the water temp in june is this?

[pgvoutdoors]

How much marsh do you figure you would have to travel through?

Use what ever resource you can for information sense yore not actually there.

[Rick]

I still won't take to the water wearing cotton clothes in those temperatures. What I really don't know are what the currents or prevailing winds are. I didn't check those out because I knew I wouldn't take to the water. I might even make faster time on land.

[Beo]

Bro, I know you well enough from chating on here to know that if you needed to you could make a fire with bow saw.

[Rick]

No Beo. I'm just going by the fact he said I know the area. Everything had to be looked up to make any determinations. Even which direction to travel. But once I knew the water temps I decided it wasn't for me.

[crashdive123]

I think at least 50% of the over land travel is going to be through marshes and bogs.

[pgvoutdoors]

Are there any other options for fire building?

[Beo]

Rivers run south into lakes and following the shore say 10 to 15 feet off and you'll run into another river, take that as it runs south too, if you hit land cause river dead ends hoof it till you hit another river.

[Beo]

Get your directions from the sun, then head south.

[Rick]

I'm assuming you know the area and it looks like some 40 miles if I travel west southwest.

Beo - I am so bad at fire with sticks I wouldn't even waist my time. I think one of the keys to survival is to know your limitations.

[Beo]

Fire options... hmmmmm.

[Beo]

True bro, 78910.

[crashdive123]

Looks like plent of hardwood and pine or spruce. The glass coke bottle is a possiblity if the clouds are limited. Don't know about finding flint in this terrain.

[hillbilly1987]

duh why didnt i look at the map on my first respones i gouss it is in my home state haha

[Rick]

I think fire by wood, flint/chirt or coke bottle are the only options I can see.

[Beo]

Come on people throw in help here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[crashdive123]

Man, I'd give 53 cents to be able to start fire easily

[Rick]

PGV - What kind of ground are we on? Is this marsh as in I can walk around the water or am I wading through a swamp like environment for tens of miles?

[Beo]

I can get the fire going with a fire bow, its the food in marshes that would be trouble, plants ok but meat where? frogs, snakes maybe, guess I gotta try some fish if I can get any.

[Beo]

Yeah... what he said. :D

[Beo]

How deep is the marsh because if the water level is knee high then the mud is another 6 inches at least.

[Rick]

Well this is great. Here I am stuck in the middle of a knee deep marsh and the guide is dead. Hello?

[carcajou garou]

Meat... muskrats, beavers, martins, birds...

[Rick]

Hey! Carcajou! Is that you? Sling one of those muskrats in my direction. Does this swamp reak or what?

[pgvoutdoors]

I believe everyone is starting to get the picture. The land is very wet but you could find some high land to travel but expect most of it to start out in the marshes. Your feet and legs would quickly start to feel the effect of water in the 50 degree temperatures. Your pop bottle might be used to start a fire but more than likely you would have to break it. Boiling of the water would definitely be needed, you could start feeling the effect of beaver fever in about a week from drinking untreated water. Utilizing a boat of some sorts would be you best bet. The great lakes winds would be blowing from the west or southwest. Rivers would move you along in the marsh areas.

There's no one answer that a person could make under those circumstances that would be best, but the better your skills the more likely you get out alive. many trappers found themselves in similar situations a few hundred years ago.

[crashdive123]

Right now food is not my big concern. How deep the bogs are is.

[pgvoutdoors]

PGV - What kind of ground are we on? Is this marsh as in I can walk around the water or am I wading through a swamp like environment for tens of miles?

Swamp mostly

[Beo]

And they followed the rivers south, to safety.

[pgvoutdoors]

How deep is the marsh because if the water level is knee high then the mud is another 6 inches at least.

Could be really bad at first!

[Beo]

"The Voyageurs" By Grace Lee Nute (which I have) tells of the waterways in the winter and how they handled them groups of two to five in canoe.

[Rick]

Did you state that right? The west would be FROM the west or southwest? Wouldn't that push you in the opposite direction of where you want to go? North to Northeast?

[Beo]

Could be really bad at first!

So to stay alive you suck it up and trudge on to the Ranger objective of firmer ground, that or squat down and die, NEVER GIVE UP!

[Rick]

The only thing the rivers would lead you to is Lake Michigan then you have to cross the lake. I guess I'm confused.

[Beo]

No winds would be blowing from west to east southeast.

[Rick]

Probably the first signs of hypothermia setting in.

[carcajou garou]

Most swamps/marshes have channels dug out by beavers and water currents, trying to follow them in some sort of water craft should make it easier if not twistier. Our marshes have very soft and deep bottoms trudging through up here would not be good exhausting at the best.
Sorry for the smell will wash feet next time:eek:

[Rick]

Okay east through the straights of Mackinaw into Lake Superior. This is getting ugly.

[Rick]

Dang. My feet are numb.

[pgvoutdoors]

Did you state that right? The west would be FROM the west or southwest? Wouldn't that push you in the opposite direction of where you want to go? North to Northeast?

The wind would come from the west or southwest, your traveling in a southerly direction, any way you choose, until you have traveled two hundred miles.

[Sam]

Why not try a fire plow? Less assembly and moving parts to balance. I would have to go with water travel. A raft does'nt have to be huge. and If you take a day to make tools you can make an stone ax to make it with. Stop and take stock of what is around you. I would take a day to set snares and make fire. Then I would look at leaving the area.

[Rick]

But the wind will blow you toward the west or northwest away from safety. Right? If you're on a raft you're going to be at the mercy of the wind and currents. I don't know. I'm asking.

[Sam]

No winds would be blowing from west to east southeast.

Water travel seems to be the fastest way out of the march lands. If I'm gonna bet wet I may as well ride.

[pgvoutdoors]

But the wind will blow you toward the west or northwest away from safety. Right? If you're on a raft you're going to be at the mercy of the wind and currents. I don't know. I'm asking.

If you are going to try to sail on the great lakes, the winds would not be much help unless you could rig a sail boat together and tact with the wind. Paddling close to the shore would work.

[Rick]

Well, I wasn't trying to use the wind. I just thought the wind would act against your southerly movements. If you say it will work then okay. I still don't like the idea of cotton being wet in 50F water.

[pgvoutdoors]

How long do you believe it would take to travel 200 miles?

[Beo]

Sam: Exactly my point,
and rick, no see the current is moving south as the rivers flow, using a push pole it can be done, why cross to lake superior when you can go down to the bottom of lake michigaan and hit a river going further south.

[pgvoutdoors]

Well, I wasn't trying to use the wind. I just thought the wind would act against your southerly movements. If you say it will work then okay. I still don't like the idea of cotton being wet in 50F water.

Early summer you get those winds that pop up from the south southwest. Travel would be tough and you would need to pull off the lake often.

[Beo]

On the lake maybe a day and then faster in the river, raft 6feet wide x 8feet long, with a push pole about 10 to 15 feet off shore on the lake. maybe even a bark paddle. We did that in Georgia in Ranger school and in florida..

[crashdive123]

Thought about constructing a sail. Those winds would put you on a broad reach with little ability to head up very effectively, thus pushing you further and further from shore. So scratch that idea. Rather than paddling which would expend alot of energy, I'd look at polling while staying close to shore.

[Rick]

Because I've been on Lake Michigan and I know what the waves are like. Think ocean swells. And if a storm hits then things go from bad to dead. I was joking about Lake Superior although that would be just my luck. What river are you flowing south down?

[Rick]

If you're sticking close to shore then you're heading to Chicago. It's my kinda town but a loooong way down the shoreline.

[carcajou garou]

If using a longer raft, them a long pole that could be used as a kayak paddle (both sides) would even the strokes and make steadier headway

[Beo]

Thing is build a fire to dry out some and warm up and take your time building the raft so its sturdy and well made, could take five six hours.

[Rick]

I sort of see about 7 or 8 of us still standing in the swamp debating on which way to go and how to get there.

[Rick]

See, I have no fire. So I'm a little limited on options. I'm still hoofing it around the lake.

[carcajou garou]

Building a fire carrier to carry an ember (coke bottle bottom) to speed up fire building on shore.

[Beo]

Didn't I say: raft 6feet wide x 8feet long, with a push pole about 10 to 15 feet off shore on the lake. Oh yeah I did, hey carcajou garou you and me are outta here.

[pgvoutdoors]

O.K. guys that's it ... Thanks for contributing. I would like to see another forum like this in the future.
Thanks Again
PGV

[Rick]

If anyone cares, I was eaten by a wolverine shortly after turning south.

[crashdive123]

I'm kind of with Rick on the fire thing. I hope I could. I have in the past. Have not practiced the skill enough (now I know what I need to work on). Hope is probably not a great idea when making out my route. I agree with the "knowing your limitations" theory of surviving. Helps keep you from getting in too far over your head.

[crashdive123]

Now sait a minute PVG. Give us your plan.

[Rick]

PGV - How would YOU have done it? It's your country.

[carcajou garou]

So Rick tell me is it really that dark inside a wolverine?:D

[Beo]

Des Plaines River in Northern Indiana Rick.
PVG you da man bro, great forum.

[pgvoutdoors]

PGV - How would YOU have done it? It's your country.

O.k. give me a minute to write it up.

[Beo]

Follow the coast down and there ya go.

[Rick]

Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, children of all ages, I can tell you there are two points of light visible from where I sit. One is just past a horrendous set of teeth and the other is just past a horrendous.......hello? Is this thing on?

[Beo]

I'd of sent a helo to pick you up bro,

[carcajou garou]

and you thought the swamp smelled bad:D

[Rick]

Well, death by wolverine isn't so bad. I mean, I could have been on a forum trying to find my way back to civilization. So death wasn't so bad.

[carcajou garou]

Death by wolverine LOL
carcajou garou = surly wolverine

[Rick]

DBW if you prefer. So, you aren't THAT tough until wolverines look you up and ask for ideas. Then you can say you're tough.

Wolverine: So I hook a claw like this.
Carcajou Interupts: No. Now pay attention. If you do it like that.....

[pgvoutdoors]

First I live on Lake Erie so I know a bit about the great lakes though I haven't spent much time in the U.P. to be considered an expert. I chose the area because it was different and not many people are familiar with it. I wanted to challenge you, make you gather information on the area to decide what to do.

The marsh would be the toughest. I would move to the highest point to my west to get dry and view the terrain. A bow and drill made from cotton wood would work to start a fire. I would use my pop bottle to boil the water but it would be a slow process. Later I would like to try to make a Birch bark water bucket to hold the boiled water.

I would progress southwesterly by foot until I hit a stream of good flow that ran down to Lake Michigan. I Would build a small raft to navigate the stream. Then I would build upon it once I hit Lake Michigan making a sturdy raft. I would navigate the west side of the lake moving into Green Bay and following it south to the city of Green Bay.

[Rick]

Where's War Eagle. How about a cage fight with a wolverine. Now that's tough!

[Beo]

Des Plaines River in Northern Indiana Rick.
PVG you da man bro, great forum.
Sorry that was in Kankakee Il.

[pgvoutdoors]

Good Night Gentleman.. Talk to you later...

[Beo]

Thanks bro, that was great.
Beo,

[crashdive123]

Thanks pgv.....

[nell67]

You guys had way too much fun out there:DHope we have another of these soon,that I can actually stay and enjoy,well done pgv!

[pgvoutdoors]

Thanks everyone, I hope we can have a another soon. If anyone is interested please step up, it's not too tough. I learned a few thing about hosting a web forum, that was new to me. I found it a bit hard to keep up, I'm not a very fast typist. Did it show? :)

Sorry Nell you couldn't make, maybe the next one should be on a different day and time.

[nell67]

Thanks everyone, I hope we can have a another soon. If anyone is interested please step up, it's not too tough. I learned a few thing about hosting a web forum, that was new to me. I found it a bit hard to keep up, I'm not a very fast typist. Did it show? :)

Sorry Nell you couldn't make, maybe the next one should be on a different day and time.

Hey dont worry about it pvg,there is no one perfect time for everyone,we all have different schedules:D,but I did get to watch a little of it and new you all were gonna have some fun ,I see Rich has been "discharged " by the wolverine,LOL must not have agreed with it's stomach!!!LMAO (sorry Rick:p)

[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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инфо (http://partfamily.ru)инфо (http://partialmajorant.ru)инфо (http://quadrupleworm.ru)инфо (http://qualitybooster.ru)инфо (http://quasimoney.ru)инфо (http://quenchedspark.ru)инфо (http://quodrecuperet.ru)инфо (http://rabbetledge.ru)инфо (http://radialchaser.ru)инфо (http://radiationestimator.ru)инфо (http://railwaybridge.ru)инфо (http://randomcoloration.ru)инфо (http://rapidgrowth.ru)инфо (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru)инфо (http://reachthroughregion.ru)
инфо (http://readingmagnifier.ru)инфо (http://rearchain.ru)инфо (http://recessioncone.ru)инфо (http://recordedassignment.ru)инфо (http://rectifiersubstation.ru)инфо (http://redemptionvalue.ru)инфо (http://reducingflange.ru)инфо (http://referenceantigen.ru)инфо (http://regeneratedprotein.ru)инфо (http://reinvestmentplan.ru)инфо (http://safedrilling.ru)инфо (http://sagprofile.ru)инфо (http://salestypelease.ru)инфо (http://samplinginterval.ru)инфо (http://satellitehydrology.ru)
инфо (http://scarcecommodity.ru)инфо (http://scrapermat.ru)инфо (http://screwingunit.ru)инфо (http://seawaterpump.ru)инфо (http://secondaryblock.ru)инфо (http://secularclergy.ru)инфо (http://seismicefficiency.ru)инфо (http://selectivediffuser.ru)инфо (http://semiasphalticflux.ru)инфо (http://semifinishmachining.ru)инфо (http://spicetrade.ru)инфо (http://spysale.ru)инфо (http://stungun.ru)инфо (http://tacticaldiameter.ru)инфо (http://tailstockcenter.ru)
инфо (http://tamecurve.ru)инфо (http://tapecorrection.ru)инфо (http://tappingchuck.ru)инфо (http://taskreasoning.ru)инфо (http://technicalgrade.ru)инфо (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)инфо (http://telescopicdamper.ru)инфо (http://temperateclimate.ru)инфо (http://temperedmeasure.ru)инфо (http://tenementbuilding.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)инфо (http://ultramaficrock.ru)инфо (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)

[yellowcab]

любв (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/6667)569.2 (http://cottagenet.ru/plan/607)CHAP (http://eyesvision.ru/use-your-own-eyes-chapter-29)PERF (http://eyesvisions.com/eyesight/29)Kevi (http://factoringfee.ru/t/664550)Ujar (http://filmzones.ru/t/167571)Попо (http://gadwall.ru/t/279945)Cano (http://gaffertape.ru/t/391498)проф (http://gageboard.ru/t/478805)Моща (http://gagrule.ru/t/266542)Боль (http://gallduct.ru/t/673323)�рти (http://galvanometric.ru/t/350281)8021 (http://gangforeman.ru/t/144173)Fash (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/179723)Jack (http://garbagechute.ru/t/851111)
Reit (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/142512)Ruth (http://gascautery.ru/t/469153)Alex (http://gashbucket.ru/t/279092)Я�не (http://gasreturn.ru/t/682971)Tesc (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/558764)Калю (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/676423)Брун (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/674655)Tesc (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/448589)Keny (http://geartreating.ru/t/568712)Вевк (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/355328)Clue (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/558348)Name (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/559117)�ерт (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/138848)Litt (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/138881)Dove (http://getthebounce.ru/t/137925)
Digi (http://habeascorpus.ru/t/628948)Disc (http://habituate.ru/t/628199)Ельм (http://hackedbolt.ru/t/319187)Alle (http://hackworker.ru/t/624317)Joha (http://hadronicannihilation.ru/t/623952)Бото (http://haemagglutinin.ru/t/621548)Caud (http://hailsquall.ru/t/139612)Agen (http://hairysphere.ru/t/449382)Colg (http://halforderfringe.ru/t/561026)�ерт (http://halfsiblings.ru/t/561759)Mava (http://hallofresidence.ru/t/561960)Brun (http://haltstate.ru/t/449387)plus (http://handcoding.ru/t/565296)Доли (http://handportedhead.ru/t/659739)Disc (http://handradar.ru/t/561389)
Rene (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/137759)Sund (http://hangonpart.ru/t/191448)педа (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/372576)иллю (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/297057)Ever (http://hardasiron.ru/t/321668)SieL (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/566194)�рап (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/303112)MPEG (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/140751)Dona (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/238733)Robe (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/293924)Acce (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/156328)Ирин (http://headregulator.ru/t/187017)Yuki (http://heartofgold.ru/t/258386)Позд (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/284627)плак (http://heatinggas.ru/t/620735)
живо (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/305953)Лебе (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/296022)Зайц (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/304378)FELI (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/601968)Niki (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/602672)Niki (http://jobstress.ru/t/602664)молн (http://jogformation.ru/t/606200)Plac (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/550044)Side (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/545504)Klin (http://journallubricator.ru/t/141266)Moto (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/526446)ежен (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/299941)Cynd (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/306312)Midn (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/306254)Pasc (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/304628)
Robe (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/327483)Reum (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/335675)prog (http://kentishglory.ru/t/631807)Camb (http://kerbweight.ru/t/265063)Mini (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/342843)Boot (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/301582)Ма�л (http://keyserum.ru/t/282466)Zone (http://kickplate.ru/t/157446)Fuxi (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/604183)Zone (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/605250)Zone (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/608520)люде (http://kinozones.ru/film/6667)3210 (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/610465)попу (http://kneejoint.ru/t/604513)Zone (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/611162)
Patr (http://knockonatom.ru/t/450084)Fuxi (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/604150)Chri (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/227210)Barb (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/771321)Rond (http://laborracket.ru/t/157573)(184 (http://labourearnings.ru/t/249315)Jewe (http://labourleasing.ru/t/358095)фина (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/662916)Kate (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/557394)Love (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/528351)Manf (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/520811)Пытл (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/297416)Dolb (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/172865)Зиль (http://laggingload.ru/t/281776)поки (http://laissezaller.ru/t/299042)
Jewe (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/172078)Ð�ьюн (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/313260)Ð*иÑ�а (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/293056)Barr (http://lamphouse.ru/t/475855)Jero (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/296088)Sept (http://lancingdie.ru/t/170849)Моща (http://landingdoor.ru/t/267301)одна (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/479835)Брем (http://landreform.ru/t/468472)ОВТв (http://landuseratio.ru/t/297543)Alla (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/654585)FFAF (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1160149)Буро (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/165760)Pana (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/215)XVII (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/589387)

[yellowcab]

Nard (http://laterevent.ru/shop/1030775)Cata (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/452230)Visk (http://layabout.ru/shop/99657)(вкл (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/100834)Dung (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/103397)Cran (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/346588)упак (http://leaveword.ru/shop/146249)Risi (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/135588)С238 (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/269747)Воль (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/146095)Кита (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/101518)Olme (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/268480)Шата (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/159235)AVTO (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/159395)RENA (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/613296)
PENN (http://manualchoke.ru/shop/597595)вузо (http://medinfobooks.ru/book/26)Grim (http://mp3lists.ru/item/6667)Мак� (http://nameresolution.ru/shop/342609)Hell (http://naphtheneseries.ru/shop/104433)пазл (http://narrowmouthed.ru/shop/456307)Penn (http://nationalcensus.ru/shop/269231)�бор (http://naturalfunctor.ru/shop/100080)Lego (http://navelseed.ru/shop/100627)Winn (http://neatplaster.ru/shop/454082)Wind (http://necroticcaries.ru/shop/27557)Inte (http://negativefibration.ru/shop/178387)2008 (http://neighbouringrights.ru/shop/176919)NASA (http://objectmodule.ru/shop/108361)Phil (http://observationballoon.ru/shop/94415)
Phil (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/98151)Ñ�ерт (http://oceanmining.ru/shop/570473)A141 (http://octupolephonon.ru)Wind (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/147603)Доли (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/200218)Ð*ыба (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/147069)ГуÑ�е (http://onesticket.ru/shop/379073)Ерпы (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/579475)Leje (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/680607)ГуÑ�е (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/202973)ЛитÐ* (http://palmberry.ru/shop/204874)ЛитÐ* (http://papercoating.ru/shop/580676)ЛитÐ* (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/684928)изоб (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1166217)Коко (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1166339)
Прок (http://partfamily.ru/shop/1165244)Батм (http://partialmajorant.ru/shop/1167971)Данг (http://quadrupleworm.ru/shop/1489090)Лурь (http://qualitybooster.ru/shop/247089)Форм (http://quasimoney.ru/shop/593620)Янке (http://quenchedspark.ru/shop/593739)Пече (http://quodrecuperet.ru/shop/930703)Коко (http://rabbetledge.ru/shop/1071006)John (http://radialchaser.ru/shop/165537)По�к (http://radiationestimator.ru/shop/447644)Зино (http://railwaybridge.ru/shop/347107)режи (http://randomcoloration.ru/shop/510342)�туд (http://rapidgrowth.ru/shop/636253)Малы (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru/shop/1076215)Кога (http://reachthroughregion.ru/shop/175362)
Visi (http://readingmagnifier.ru/shop/447636)Eman (http://rearchain.ru/shop/617463)Very (http://recessioncone.ru/shop/513640)забо (http://recordedassignment.ru/shop/878985)реда (http://rectifiersubstation.ru/shop/1052356)Бубн (http://redemptionvalue.ru/shop/1058995)XVII (http://reducingflange.ru/shop/1672569)заве (http://referenceantigen.ru/shop/1692495)VIII (http://regeneratedprotein.ru/shop/1239974)Fred (http://reinvestmentplan.ru/shop/121453)карт (http://safedrilling.ru/shop/1792409)худо (http://sagprofile.ru/shop/1046111)Байк (http://salestypelease.ru/shop/1065258)Mood (http://samplinginterval.ru/shop/1417374)Vict (http://satellitehydrology.ru/shop/1457383)
п�их (http://scarcecommodity.ru/shop/1439687)��Бл (http://scrapermat.ru/shop/1457435)мале (http://screwingunit.ru/shop/1492328)Eric (http://seawaterpump.ru/shop/179624)Крав (http://secondaryblock.ru/shop/249639)Дмит (http://secularclergy.ru/shop/272216)Micr (http://seismicefficiency.ru/shop/41798)Кова (http://selectivediffuser.ru/shop/376711)Пушк (http://semiasphalticflux.ru/shop/398860)QBas (http://semifinishmachining.ru/shop/427991)Pana (http://spicetrade.ru/spice_zakaz/215)Pana (http://spysale.ru/spy_zakaz/215)Pana (http://stungun.ru/stun_zakaz/215)Дроб (http://tacticaldiameter.ru/shop/475786)Lena (http://tailstockcenter.ru/shop/488814)
возр (http://tamecurve.ru/shop/472425)Гага (http://tapecorrection.ru/shop/477095)�нци (http://tappingchuck.ru/shop/485175)изда (http://taskreasoning.ru/shop/497072)Кн�з (http://technicalgrade.ru/shop/1816709)Верк (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru/shop/1856564)Обук (http://telescopicdamper.ru/shop/633468)и�по (http://temperateclimate.ru/shop/275514)Чере (http://temperedmeasure.ru/shop/398836)VIII (http://tenementbuilding.ru/shop/962573)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)авто (http://ultramaficrock.ru/shop/975039)Луки (http://ultraviolettesting.ru/shop/481735)

[yellowcab]

http://geartreating.ruhttp://hadronicannihilation.ruhttp://getintoaflap.ruhttp://gashbucket.ruhttp://scarcecommodity.ruhttp://kerrrotation.ruhttp://hailsquall.ruhttp://heavydutymetalcutting.ruhttp://hazardousatmosphere.ruhttp://mammasdarling.ruhttp://heatageingresistance.ruhttp://laborracket.ruhttp://kaposidisease.ruhttp://landuseratio.ruhttp://offlinesystem.ru
http://lacingcourse.ruhttp://semiasphalticflux.ruhttp://packedspheres.ruhttp://neatplaster.ruhttp://gaussianfilter.ruhttp://secularclergy.ruhttp://hardasiron.ruhttp://kleinbottle.ruhttp://cottagenet.ruhttp://laminatedmaterial.ruhttp://selectivediffuser.ruhttp://papercoating.ruhttp://objectmodule.ruhttp://jobstress.ruhttp://getthebounce.ru
http://gardeningleave.ruhttp://olibanumresinoid.ruhttp://temperedmeasure.ruhttp://readingmagnifier.ruhttp://quasimoney.ruhttp://reachthroughregion.ruhttp://haphazardwinding.ruhttp://hangonpart.ruhttp://eyesvision.ruhttp://naturalfunctor.ruhttp://landmarksensor.ruhttp://knifesethouse.ruhttp://heartofgold.ruhttp://satellitehydrology.ruhttp://gasreturn.ru
http://radialchaser.ruhttp://quadrupleworm.ruhttp://lactogenicfactor.ruhttp://haltstate.ruhttp://rabbetledge.ruhttp://latrinesergeant.ruhttp://juicecatcher.ruhttp://lacrimalpoint.ruhttp://jogformation.ruhttp://magneticequator.ruhttp://haemagglutinin.ruhttp://sagprofile.ruhttp://hatchholddown.ruhttp://samplinginterval.ruhttp://galvanometric.ru
http://seawaterpump.ruhttp://laserpulse.ruhttp://spysale.ruhttp://rattlesnakemaster.ruhttp://labourleasing.ruhttp://safedrilling.ruhttp://screwingunit.ruhttp://gaffertape.ruhttp://oceanmining.ruhttp://nationalcensus.ruhttp://keyserum.ruhttp://laterevent.ruhttp://journallubricator.ruhttp://gageboard.ruhttp://haveafinetime.ru
http://tapecorrection.ruhttp://railwaybridge.ruhttp://secondaryblock.ruhttp://layabout.ruhttp://landreform.ruhttp://taskreasoning.ruhttp://nameresolution.ruhttp://radiationestimator.ruhttp://knowledgestate.ruhttp://justiciablehomicide.ruhttp://halforderfringe.ruhttp://tappingchuck.ruhttp://gangforeman.ruhttp://manualchoke.ruhttp://knockonatom.ru
http://gagrule.ruhttp://ladletreatediron.ruhttp://gatedsweep.ruhttp://geophysicalprobe.ruhttp://languagelaboratory.ruhttp://keymanassurance.ruhttp://qualitybooster.ruhttp://necroticcaries.ruhttp://rearchain.ruhttp://largeheart.ruhttp://handcoding.ruhttp://hardenedconcrete.ruhttp://gaugemodel.ruhttp://rapidgrowth.ruhttp://lammasshoot.ru
http://kentishglory.ruhttp://gallduct.ruhttp://medinfobooks.ruhttp://harmonicinteraction.ruhttp://majorconcern.ruhttp://handradar.ruhttp://hardalloyteeth.ruhttp://jibtypecrane.ruhttp://laggingload.ruhttp://offsetholder.ruhttp://kneejoint.ruhttp://scrapermat.ruhttp://habituate.ruhttp://jointsealingmaterial.ruhttp://octupolephonon.ru

[yellowcab]

http://negativefibration.ruhttp://keepsmthinhand.ruhttp://obstructivepatent.ruhttp://factoringfee.ruhttp://learningcurve.ruhttp://salestypelease.ruhttp://observationballoon.ruhttp://laissezaller.ruhttp://referenceantigen.ruhttp://telescopicdamper.ruhttp://labeledgraph.ruhttp://geriatricnurse.ruhttp://killthefattedcalf.ruhttp://rectifiersubstation.ruhttp://leadingfirm.ru
http://filmzones.ruhttp://naphtheneseries.ruhttp://gangwayplatform.ruhttp://temperateclimate.ruhttp://gascautery.ruhttp://randomcoloration.ruhttp://leadcoating.ruhttp://managerialstaff.ruhttp://lambdatransition.ruhttp://halfsiblings.ruhttp://navelseed.ruhttp://narrowmouthed.ruhttp://audiobookkeeper.ruhttp://machinesensible.ruhttp://neighbouringrights.ru
http://tenementbuilding.ruhttp://quodrecuperet.ruhttp://recordedassignment.ruhttp://leaveword.ruhttp://partialmajorant.ruhttp://reinvestmentplan.ruhttp://recessioncone.ruhttp://parasolmonoplane.ruhttp://laburnumtree.ruhttp://telangiectaticlipoma.ruhttp://redemptionvalue.ruhttp://paraconvexgroup.ruhttp://habeascorpus.ruhttp://heatinggas.ruhttp://magnetotelluricfield.ru
http://generalprovisions.ruhttp://parkingbrake.ruhttp://juxtapositiontwin.ruhttp://hartlaubgoose.ruhttp://gadwall.ruhttp://labourearnings.ruhttp://handportedhead.ruhttp://hackedbolt.ruhttp://lamphouse.ruhttp://stungun.ruhttp://quenchedspark.ruhttp://japanesecedar.ruhttp://hairysphere.ruhttp://laserlens.ruhttp://kilowattsecond.ru
http://technicalgrade.ruhttp://mp3lists.ruhttp://tacticaldiameter.ruhttp://jacketedwall.ruhttp://ultraviolettesting.ruhttp://junctionofchannels.ruhttp://seismicefficiency.ruhttp://kickplate.ruhttp://kinozones.ruhttp://lacunarycoefficient.ruhttp://palatinebones.ruhttp://keepagoodoffing.ruhttp://lasercalibration.ruhttp://lancecorporal.ruhttp://jobabandonment.ru
http://handsfreetelephone.ruhttp://gearpitchdiameter.ruhttp://tailstockcenter.ruhttp://garbagechute.ruhttp://onesticket.ruhttp://manipulatinghand.ruhttp://mailinghouse.ruhttp://hackworker.ruhttp://jointcapsule.ruhttp://palmberry.ruhttp://spicetrade.ruhttp://kingweakfish.ruhttp://regeneratedprotein.ruhttp://ultramaficrock.ruhttp://semifinishmachining.ru
http://headregulator.ruhttp://landingdoor.ruhttp://pagingterminal.ruhttp://hallofresidence.ruhttp://partfamily.rutuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/index.php?topic=1.0)http://kondoferromagnet.ruhttp://lancingdie.ruhttp://reducingflange.ruhttp://tamecurve.ruhttp://generalizedanalysis.ruhttp://kerbweight.ruhttp://eyesvisions.com