Water Purification [Archive] - Wilderness Survival Forums

Sparky93

10-06-2011, 12:54 AM

Okay, I undertsand you can boil or chemically treat water to remove bacteria and parasites, but another concern I have been thinking about is if the water supply you are getting youre water runs through farmland and has become contaminated with chemicals and pesticides. Are the levels of contamination enough to be concerned about. If they are would it be worthwhile to carry a activated carbon filter with you which will remove said chemicals and pesticides. Am I over thinking this or is it a viable concern.

Winter

10-06-2011, 01:56 AM

A viable concern for long term survival. Not as much for short term.

Any serious long term SHTF and the crops are not gonna get the chemical treatment anyway. IMO.

Most water filters deal with chemical and biological contaminants.

Sparky93

10-06-2011, 02:06 AM

Maybe I'm just thinking about it to much, because if you think about how deluted the chemicals are in the water. The amount of chemicals per gallon of water are going to be very small. On the other hand though most feilds have tiles that take all the excess rain water tha has fallen in the feild and dump it staight to the river. And when you are only supposed to eat so many fish from the river before it starts becoming hazzardous to your health, it kind of makes you wonder about the quality of the water.

crashdive123

10-06-2011, 07:23 AM

You can boil, filter and treat biologically contaminated water but you cannot do the same with toxic water. Here's some information on the topic. http://www.princeton.edu/~oa/manual/water.shtml

Rick

10-06-2011, 07:37 AM

Sparky - First, boiling doesn't remove pathogens it kills them. Their itty bitty corpses are still floating around in the water but they can't throw a rave and ravage you.

Next - Carbon can remove SOME chemicals by adsorbing to the chemical but only if it has been activated, which gives it an exponential amount of surface area. Notice I said adsorb with a D and not absorb. One gram of activate charcoal has something like 500 meters squared of surface area. There are a lot of toxins that activate charcoal can NOT remove.

Finally - Your concern about field contamination is valid. If you have the choice don't use field run off or ditch water. If it's really a life and death issue then you do what you have to do to get through the moment.

The Indiana DNR does tissue sampling in all major rivers, tributaries and lakes. You can look it up and see their report. Just about any place in Indiana you want to fish is covered. You'll also be surprised how many lakes have no restrictions at all because they are clean. I live on Morse Reservoir north of Indy and we have no restrictions on the amount or type of fish we can eat even though it's a recreation lake. That said, pregnant women and those with immune issues should error on the side of caution I would think.

Rule of thumb - Flowing water is better than standing water.

wareagle69

10-06-2011, 07:55 AM

heres my take
as winter said long term vs short term
short term i will drink if i have to survive-may end up with the trots a few days later but hopefully relaxing at home by then.
What to look for- fast moving water- i like near rapids as lots of oxygen, also look around your water, is the land clean is there lots of vegetation, look up stream for a few hundred meters, also does the water smell, or taste funny.
now as a trapper i have learned that beaver will not stay in polluted water, so now i know if clean enough for beaver..... now i know there will not be a chemical risk, just biological..but i can treat that

Sparky93

10-06-2011, 09:32 AM

Rick- my bad, I mispoke when I said remove, my intention was kill. Does reverse osmosis remove chemicals, I have seen hand pumps that are reverse osmosis filters that will also remove the salt from saltwater.
My concerns about for drinking water are for hiking or camping more than a survival scenario, when there may be an option to remove chemical contaminants.

Sparky93

10-06-2011, 09:48 AM

I was doing a little bit of research trying to find facts abour reverse osmosis and came across this http://247water.org/emergency-backpacking-water-backpacking-gear-backpacking-equipment.html I thought it was kind of cool. I haven't found out yet if it will remove chemicals, but it does say that it will filter saltwater and urine into clean drinking water. YUM!! It is a little pricey though, about $80.

finallyME

10-06-2011, 11:51 AM

Wow, a forward osmosis water filter. That is pretty unique. It looks like they are using sugar as the osmogent. Salt is a more powerful osmogent, but sugar works as well. The problem I see with it, is if the contaminated water has a really high salt content. If the osmotic force is really high on the bad water side, then it won't want to pass through the membrane. It also won't work without the osmogent.

Personally I would probably use a reverse osmosis system for that kind of situation. Yes, you have to use a lot of force to push the water through the membrane, but you won't have as many limitations. And, your long term costs would be much less.

As for will an osmotic membrane filter out harsh chemicals, I would probably say yes. BUT, I am not positive. Since you are at Purdue, then I would expect you to be able to do research. Make sure and tell us what you find. :)

1stimestar

10-06-2011, 12:47 PM

Also keep in mind that boiling sometimes just concentrates contaminates.

crashdive123

10-06-2011, 12:57 PM

Also keep in mind that boiling sometimes just concentrates contaminates.

Because of the evaporative loss (through steam). Less water + same amount of contaminate = higher concentrations.

kyratshooter

10-06-2011, 03:36 PM

Sparky you are over thinking this situation.

The water that comes through your faucet, and you use for every daily need including drinking and cooking, is not purified to the extent that you are researching!

It is filtered, treated with chlorine and punped through the pipes.

But you drink bottled water???

Most is bottled right out of the faucet.

You are looking for long term survival water purification that is a higher standard then we have now.

Rick

10-06-2011, 04:57 PM

You really have some simple and easy alternatives for camping. You should easily find non-contaminated water anywhere in Indiana (okay, maybe not Gary but everywhere else). I would also be shy about Wild Cat Creek around and west of Kokomo. Most of the major rivers receive raw sewage during heavy rains but the Wild Cat seems to get more. Still, those are pathogens that can be killed and/or removed.

Boiling is the best option because it kills all pathogens. It is fuel intensive and time consuming and your are limited in the amount of water you can purify by the size of the pot you carry.

A good solid filter like Katadyn or MSR is easy to use, quick and does a good job on everything except viruses. You still need to chemically treat your water to kill viruses. But you can make a lot of clean water quickly, you don't use fuel and you don't waste a lot of time.

You can chemically treat your water but it may not kill all pathogens and it may take longer especially if the water is very cold or turbid or both. You can not drink your water for a period of time after treating to allow the chemicals to do their job. So if you're really, really thirst you still have to wait.

A product like Steripen uses UV to kill pathogens. I think they are a bit expensive but those that use them swear by them.

Trabitha

10-06-2011, 08:13 PM

Like I've said in the past. I LOVE MY BERKEY! I use it EVERY time there's a question regarding the water. With the flooding that our area experienced, we were asked to boil our water...if we HAD water. I didn't have water...but I had a handy-dandy stream. Lord knows what was in it, as I live in town. Hey...gotta do what you gotta do. Berkey to the rescue!

BENESSE

10-06-2011, 08:15 PM

Where you been Trab? It's nice to see you back.

Trabitha

10-06-2011, 08:30 PM

HI! Just working through my drama. ;) Been working a lot of hours to make up for what I've lost...but I'm finally in a place where I can begin rebuilding my pantry and a bunch of stuff I had to use while I was in limbo. ;) Nice to see you too! Hope you're well!

Sparky93

10-06-2011, 08:31 PM

The backpack size berkey is pretty cool, but it is pretty pricey. http://www.bigberkeywaterfilters.com/berkey-filter-systems-c-1/go-berkey-kit-p-210#read-reviews

Trabitha

10-06-2011, 08:51 PM

Watch for the sales and do the math. I have one berkey system that I spent a total of 250.00 on (the travel size) that came with three sports bottles that have their own filters and the main system came with 2 black filters. With the two filters that came with the main system alone, we have enough drinking water for three people for 3 years and we even factored in a small amount of sanitation water on top of that daily. That comes to about $4.40 a day for three years for just over three gallons of water per day. ;) Good deal IMO.

Rick

10-06-2011, 08:54 PM

Great to see you back, T. I hope life's karma is getting things lined up for you.

Trabitha

10-06-2011, 09:28 PM

It sure is! Keeping my chin up and pushing through. That's the best anyone can do. Ya know? ;) My son and I have a lot of time together to do things that WE like to do, so we find ourselves doing a lot of camping and hiking. Work hard...and good things come! How are things out your way?

Rick

10-07-2011, 06:26 AM

I'm genuinely pleased to hear that. You just have to keep putting one foot in front of the other and take it a step at a time sometimes.
Things here are peachy. I have no complaints.

crashdive123

10-07-2011, 06:42 AM

Hey T. Glad to hear things are going well for you and your son.

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12-14-2025, 02:26 PM

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