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View Full Version : This might be stupid? Part II


SemperFi
09-30-2011, 10:16 AM
Ok , Im not completely done with the original , however , I have another question which is ultimately a problem ? Waste? What do e do with the numbers of waste we accumulate? There are many kinds of waste , human waste ;fecal,urine etc, other assorted wastes trash , even fuel waste , I thought possibly theres got to be a way to "re-use" some of this waste , other waste I dont know ,which leads to a real problem of storage ? where would you put this waste (all the different wastes have to be stored somewhere if your underground ) , now obviously anyone living in the country knows about septic tanks , but the tank would have to be lower than your shelter and you dont want it more than 25 feet from you either , what other ways to get rid of waste , like I said some fuels have wastes , not to mention trash?
SARKY
09-30-2011, 10:33 AM
I read some where that urine and wood ash could be mixed, let it ferment a while and then used as fertilizer. Feces "can" be composted and used safely in gardens. Any metal, glass or paper waste(packaging) can be recycled. Plastics can as well although not as efficiently at the homestead level. What other fuel waste are you speaking of? For that matter specifically what other waste products are you concerned about?
hunter63
09-30-2011, 10:55 AM
For getting rid of you human waste, consider reading up on it: Humanure Hand Book.:
http://humanurehandbook.com/

Can be down loaded for free.
Food waste, with the exception of meats waste, can be composted.

Wood ashes can be spread, most all metals can be recycled, as well as a lot of plastics.......Or try not to use any to start with.
ronjnk
09-30-2011, 02:05 PM
We did the outhouse routine for 20 years. We've moved up in the world and have an "indoor" outhouse. We have a bench seat with a commercial product called a urine diverter. Solids drop straight through into a tub. Urine gets diverted to a bucket next to it. After many months, the solids get taken out to a compost bin where it is composted for a year and then spread around fruit trees. We make it a practice NOT to use it on the vegetable or herb garden. The manual Hunter mentions above probably deals specifically with that issue. It's been a long time since I read it. Urine can be composted as well although we spread raw around fruit trees or in the garden only in the winter where it gets tilled in in the Spring. I believe wood ashes are fine up to a point in gardens etc and we do it all the time since our "soil" is so acidic. But I have read there are concentrations of nasty stuff in ashes too so we try not to keep dumping ashes on the same spots.
BENESSE
09-30-2011, 02:12 PM
I think SF is worried about what to do with all the waste while sealed inside a bunker. Having access to a yard makes everything much easier, relatively speaking. This is an issue that troubles me more than anything I can think of, given my geographical location. It's something I am constantly working on.
Sparky93
09-30-2011, 02:33 PM
Urine could be distilled into water, sounds gross but if done properly it is 100% clean drinking water. Nasa developed something to do this in the space station http://inhabitat.com/nasas-pee-recycling-forward-osmosis-bag-turns-urine-into-an-out-of-this-world-beverage/nasaosmosis3/ it actually makes the urine into a sports drink! I also saw on a dirty jobs episode where they where fixing a poop burning toilet on a fishing boat. The toilet would insinerate the sollid waste and if I remember right all you have to do is clean out the ashes on ocasion.
Rick
09-30-2011, 03:48 PM
Bio-Gel. If you are Buggin' In (house, bunker, etc) then you either use the toilet with a bag liner (if you have no water) or use a portable toilet and add bio-gel to the bag. It turns it into a biodegradable gel. I have the red bio waste bags because they were the thickest mil for the money and bio-gel that we'll use in the short term. If it were a long term issue I'd have to install an outhouse in the yard.

http://www.relianceproducts.com/products/sanitation/95.html

(http://www.relianceproducts.com/products/sanitation/95.html)http://www.uline.com/BL_6781/Biohazard-Bags?keywords=bio

I'll store the waste in the garage in the short term.
Rick
09-30-2011, 03:52 PM
By the way, I don't think either of your questions have been stupid. I think they were pretty darn good questions. This one I researched for quite some time to find the right solution of short term.
kyratshooter
09-30-2011, 04:35 PM
Ok , Im not completely done with the original , however , I have another question which is ultimately a problem ? Waste? What do e do with the numbers of waste we accumulate? There are many kinds of waste , human waste ;fecal,urine etc, other assorted wastes trash , even fuel waste , I thought possibly theres got to be a way to "re-use" some of this waste , other waste I dont know ,which leads to a real problem of storage ? where would you put this waste (all the different wastes have to be stored somewhere if your underground ) , now obviously anyone living in the country knows about septic tanks , but the tank would have to be lower than your shelter and you dont want it more than 25 feet from you either , what other ways to get rid of waste , like I said some fuels have wastes , not to mention trash?

Are you talking in a sealed bunker or in a more practical long term systems down situation?
kyratshooter
09-30-2011, 04:57 PM
SHTF there is no such thing as "trash".

Dig your pit and build the outhouse on skids. Move it as needed. Fill in the old pit with the dirt from the new hole.

Wood ashes are more valuable as lye than fertilizer. Save the wood ash and make a hopper from scrap wood with a trouth at the bottom, line it with straw or grass. Dump the lye on the straw and let the rain leach through and drain into a bucket. Add more ash as you clean the fireplace or stove and keep pouring the lye back over the ash hopper until it is strong enough to float and egg. At that point it is right for making soap, using your leftover grease, or hominy for long term corn storage.

Never throw away a tin can. Wash them out and you will find 1,000 things to do with them as the need arises. Everything from making crude pipe to cutting out arrowheads for small game.

Table scraps go to the chickens and hogs. Some can be used for bait for traps and fishing.

Other trash can be burned.

As time goes on you will have less and less trash to worry with. You will be throwing away almost nothing. You will be patching clothes until their start can not be identified, then making rag rugs from them, then dreaming up ways to use scraps as you might never imagine.

As the old folks used to say, they "ate every part of the pig except the squeel!" Not a scrap was wasted.
hunter63
09-30-2011, 05:14 PM
Thats sounds like my GF and GM talking....I still have sheets made from cotton flour sacks.
Rick
09-30-2011, 05:34 PM
Dig your pit and build the outhouse on skids. Move it as needed. Fill in the old pit with the dirt from the new hole.

Just don't do this in the winter on a hillside.
Sparky93
09-30-2011, 05:39 PM
Just don't do this in the winter on a hillside.
Is that how Sourdough's outhouse doesent have a door?......
Rick
09-30-2011, 05:41 PM
No. He's just a manly man. The site of him in the outhouse leaves full grown grizzlies weak in the knees.
SemperFi
09-30-2011, 05:47 PM
Well specifically I was speaking about a bunker (similiar to the first stupid question), however , since its up there , many of the ideas laid out there are awesome! Even in friendly times , being prepared is smart , if you live it (like some of you do) , when a disaster approaches this wont require any kind of time to get used to it, because iits already old hat!

Now inside a bunker for extended periods of time means that space will be a premium , correct ? What happens to the waste then , especially human wastes , but all wastes have to be eliminated , some of the responses even though meant for above ground , I think with a little work could be implemented under ground as well!
bobzilla
09-30-2011, 05:52 PM
Good ideas,plastic wasn't covered so ...................

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1XBSoovQtY
tsitenha
09-30-2011, 06:51 PM
Clumping cat litter works for emidiate waste.
hunter63
09-30-2011, 07:52 PM
For starters the amount of waste is directly related to amount of supplies you have....In a bunker situation, if there was room for it to start with, you should have enough room to store the empty whatevers.

Food/drinks turn into urine and crap, but can be stored in the same buckets that the media.....Talking about composting toilets here, media being sawdust/peat moss paper or even fuel if burned.
I would think that a worm based compost, Vermicomposting, vent outside both intake and out let may be a alternative.
http://www.redwormcomposting.com/vermicomposting-newsletter/

I guess we have to define amount of time spent in that there bunker, 72 hrs, (lots of food kit BOB's are three day based) 7 days, 14 days....forever.....Pick one..
The longer you spent in that environment, the more system are needed to continue to provide supplies, whatever it happens to be.

Here I think sophistication and expense may rule out most of us.....only the very rich, very paranoid, and governments, with our money, could afford and maintain such a installation.
Rick
09-30-2011, 08:15 PM
And don't forget that you will probably ration food and water to some extent. Since input will go down, so will output.
Winter
09-30-2011, 10:11 PM
One word- trebuchet

:yes:
Rick
09-30-2011, 10:28 PM
People that live in glass houses should never throw.....well, this is just gonna be ugly.
Sparky93
09-30-2011, 10:55 PM
I prefer catapults, less moving parts and less things to go wrong. For example if the "projectile" accidentally fires straight up in the air, it could end in a "OH SHIIT!!" moment.....
BENESSE
09-30-2011, 11:07 PM
Once TSHTF, a little more here and there won't make much of a difference.
If you could diffuse the smell, why, you could get real creative.
Think termite mounds and bee hives.
crashdive123
09-30-2011, 11:28 PM
Oh great. Make my job hazardous.
BENESSE
09-30-2011, 11:32 PM
What if you could use it as mortar or speckling or...the sky's the limit, really.
The concept of built like a brick $hithouse would have a whole new meaning.
1stimestar
10-01-2011, 01:18 AM
LOL Sparky and Benesse.
Rick
10-01-2011, 06:38 AM
Poop as spackling? Sounds pretty crappy to me.
BENESSE
10-01-2011, 08:36 AM
Rick, you're just a party pooper.
Willie
10-01-2011, 09:25 AM
I was watching a video where a guy used a shipping container for a underground bunker/wine cellar. When they dug the hole they left about 2-3 feet all the way around so they could walk around it. The top was cemented over the complete hole so everything was completely underground.they kind of stuccoed the dirt walls around the bunker to keep the dirt in place. This space could be used to store waste.

Willie
kyratshooter
10-01-2011, 10:51 AM
Now inside a bunker for extended periods of time means that space will be a premium , correct ? What happens to the waste then , especially human wastes , but all wastes have to be eliminated , some of the responses even though meant for above ground , I think with a little work could be implemented under ground as well!

You will not be in the bunker that long SF. In case of nuke attack two weeks is the standard for holing up. That is really the only survivable bunker senerio unless you have a ventelation system with extreme medical grade filters for chemical/bio.

If you are hiding in a bunker and no one else is you are handicapping yourself defensively. Someone will simply walk up and drop smoke bombs down your air vents and wait for you to come out. You want to be the last one in and the first one out.
You want to get out of the bunker life as soon as possible.

http://www.radshelters4u.com/index3.htm#b2

The best case senerio for a usable bunker is exiting after two weeks to find the rest of the world lying dead all around. Either way, the bunker is a short term lifestyle unless you are a senetor living in Cheyene Mountain.

Even inthe height of the Cold War Civil defense planned for only a two week stay in the shelters. Humans do not do well when confined without sunlight and fresh air in small places, either mentally or physically for long periods of time.

Bag you waste, sprinkle it with lime and store it in a sealed 55 gallon barrel for the two weeks, then roll it out and bury it when you exit the bunker.
crashdive123
10-01-2011, 12:28 PM
........Humans do not do well when confined without sunlight and fresh air in small places, either mentally or physically for long periods of time.....

Tell me about it. Over 20 years in Submarines and look what it did to me.
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