View Full Version : Fresh Air Reserve
I know ya'll think I'm nuts but that's okay. My family is trying hard to certify me but I keep getting out of the jacket. Here's my latest cluster.
I'm sitting around thinking of all the ways the air can get messed up. All the goofy contaminants that could be in it and how I could make that a bit more tolerable in the short term. Things like the dust bowl, volcanic ash, the mess from the World Trade Centers. Things like that rather than lead, arsenic or other things I can't do much about.
Oxygen requires a script for the gas and aircraft and welding O2, which probably comes from the same dang tanks at the gas company, is pretty expensive. Besides, I don't really need O2. All I need is clean air. Volcanic ash is really the bad boy of the bunch I think. Super heated silicon once breathed in forms with the moisture in your lungs and forms liquid concrete. Color me crazy but I'll bet it's really hard to breath through that. And, silica that has been super heated and cooled forms glass dust. It's presumed that is one of the contributors to the death of the dino's. They breathed the dust, it cut up their lungs and they drowned. Not on my list of top ten ways to go either.
Sooooo. I start dinkin' around with my air compressor and I think I can hook an O2 mask to the output and use that as a supplement if the air is super dusty for whatever reason. I've ordered some masks and picked up some parts today. Once I get this bad boy going I'll post some pics.
I don't think I'll ever need anything like that where I live and it's certainly not anything near portable but for those of you in the Pacific Northwest or in major cities like NYC or the like might be interested. If you scuba dive then case closed. You have the gear but I don't and I'm not investing in anything. But I don't mind to putz around with it and see if it works. Stay tuned. More to come.
rebel
09-29-2011, 08:01 PM
What about the oil in that compressor air?
What oil? It's just a little electric air compressor. If it needs oil it's SOL 'cause it's never got any and it's 15 years old.
rebel
09-29-2011, 08:05 PM
Are you sure it doesn't have an oil tank for lubrication? I have an electric compressor and it has oil.
Nope. I'll check it tomorrow but all it has is the electric motor, the cylinders and the switches/gauges. Hmmm. No wonder that thing has been hammering and banging. Just kiddin'. no oil tank.
But a good point for anyone that would consider something similar.
Maybe I should have my wife test the mask end of it when I get it going.
gryffynklm
09-29-2011, 08:10 PM
OK, the compressor oil becomes an issue because it not only lubricates your compressor but also your tools to a cretin extent. Th vaporized oil could potentially create a problem and prevent the O2 from being absorbed into your blood stream.
You will need a pre filter on the incoming air, the one on your compressor may or may not be adequate. The air out obviously needs a pressure regulator and a oil and moisture remover/ filter.
This is vague recollection of something I have read or gone over in the last twenty years or so. So... I don't exactly know what I'm talking about but know enough that with out the filters there is a problem.
There are breathing compressors designed for that purpose. I'm not sure an ordinary compressor can be fitted with the necessary things to make it safe.
I really don't have any oil in it. Trust me. I've never put the first drop of oil in it. It does have an output regulator but no filters of any kind. The only air tools I use is a ratchet drive and it has to be oiled separately.
You guys know how anal retentive I am. I keep books and receipts for everything all neatly filed away. So I pulled the manual. It's a Campbell Hausfeld Oilless Compressor. It does have a huge DANGER warning on the front page titled breathable air warning.
Okay, maybe reading the instructions would be good. More study is required I surmise. I was heading straight for a, "hold my beer and watch this" moment.
gryffynklm
09-29-2011, 08:19 PM
Just wanted you to know. I would hate for that to be one of those times I should have said something. There are oilless air compressors as you obviously know.
COWBOYSURVIVAL
09-29-2011, 08:19 PM
We use a pretty substantial system to remove the oil from compressed air at work, we have screw compressors which generally produce less oil in air. I think it can be done though and pretty reasonable. We can't have any contaminants in the compressed air when powder coating.
rebel
09-29-2011, 08:29 PM
A question...let's say you get this thing going and the volcanic dust is falling. Everything is going well, you're smiling in your mask. However, the dust clogs the filter on the compressor about the same time as the electric company shuts down. You've got what, 15 minutes of air?
COWBOYSURVIVAL
09-29-2011, 08:36 PM
Wait a minute....I thought you had graduated from prepping sir!
crashdive123
09-29-2011, 09:37 PM
Unless you have a pretty well thought out air filtration system your compressor will be "breathing" the same air that concerns you on the intake side. Think SCUBA tanks.
Well, here's how I was thinking. Boom, something happens and I'd kick on the compressor and I have a portable tank that I can fill as well. Then let them sit. I don't plan on them being anything primary. But dust gets in your house despite everything you've done to prevent it so you dial up a little fresh air to help out a bit. I don't see it as it being on all the time just something that helps you clear you lungs a bit.
I ordered a water filter at the same time I ordered the masks. I was thinking that something could be inside the tank and the water filter would stop that but I didn't think about a pre-filter. I'm going to look at that warning again tomorrow. It referenced a Part D of the gas breather association of some such thing. I thought I'd look that up and see what it was.
As to preps, this isn't preps. I'm just putzin' around with it to see if it works. I actually have gas masks that are glorified air masks if things were that bad as well as back up filters. This is just one of those wonder if it will work things.
Crash - I thought about scuba but the scuba folks are mighty proud of their gear. They wouldn't ask for your first born if they weren't proud of it. That stuff is expensive.
crashdive123
09-30-2011, 07:36 AM
I don't dive all that much anymore - I've got an extra aluminum 80 tank (needs hydro cert). If you want it I'll bring it next month. You'd just need to have it hydro tested (every five years - need current hydro and annual VIP visual inspection to get them filled). You can probably find an inexpensive regulator. You can sometimes find a small, used pony bottle. Sounds like the little spare air tank would work (nice and portable, mouth piece mounted) but I haven't seen them for "bargain" prices.
Old GI
09-30-2011, 08:24 AM
You hit it Crash. That's exactly what I do with my tanks since I retired from diving.
BScout
09-30-2011, 09:30 AM
To avoid the aforementioned issues with a compressor, why not just use a shop vac?
If you built a box, let's say 3' cubed with the exterior being cheap furnace filters as a pre-filter.
Put your shop-vac in there. Use the air being blown out of the vacuum as your air supply.
I would consider reversing the shop vac so your air supply is coming out the hose. Myself, I'd also use a new shop vac since I really don't want to smell the "stuff" that's been run through my shop-vac over the years.
BENESSE
09-30-2011, 09:59 AM
Maybe I' ve missed something in the OP, but why not just have an inside room that's completely isolated or be ready to use heavy duty plastic & duct tape to seal all the widows, doors, vents, and anything else that could possibly let any air from the outside seep in?
Or maybe you intend to do both--seal & provide additional oxygen through all those contraptions.
RCKCRWLER
09-30-2011, 11:22 AM
Yup, don't do it Rick. Darwin is waiting for you on that one! I can't remember how many times our SCUBA instructor said make sure if you dive in the Carribean/ resort tourist islands make sure your tanks aren't filled from air compressors. It is a huge issue with the oil. Oiless or not, something still has to lubricate that piston in your compressor. I think oiless means, YOU don't have to oil. Just my .02
rebel
09-30-2011, 12:35 PM
I bet that part D thingy ain't cheap.
I get what ya'll are saying so I'll 96 the compressor idea. See? That's what I like about this. Maybe it wasn't a good idea but I've learned a lot just posting the thread. I do like the shop vac idea.
Let's take a scenario so everyone is on the same page. The outside air is filled with dust or smoke from high winds, volcano, brush fire or the like. And we'll deal with just the air portion of the scenario.
You have your masks, either N95 or some gas mask/glorified dust mask. You bug in and seal the doors and windows. But that stuff will filter in I don't care how good of a job you do. Maybe it's not enough to worry about unless you have allergies or asthma or COPD or elderly or young kids or something like that. Masks get to be a pain in the keester if you have to wear them for any length of time. Plus you have to remove them at some point to eat. So I was just looking for some way to help clear out any of the filtered dust that might get inside the house. Compressed air seemed like a good idea but filtering it out completely is even better.
And for those you in the Northwest and AK where volcanoes are prevalent ash fall becomes a roof concern as well if enough builds up so you may have to go out and remove it just like snow load in the north. That means you've just stirred it up again.
I think the shop vac is an excellent idea. I keep mine cleaned out and I have several washable filters that I keep changed so smell really isn't a problem for me but I understand what you're saying. My shop vac has the suck/blow option (let's not go there shall we?) on it so it doesn't get much better than that.
Crash - Thank you for the offer but I think I'll go this route for now.
BScout
09-30-2011, 04:12 PM
Rick,
I thought some more about the pre-filter 3x3' box thingy I mentioned and think I came up with something I like better.
A shop vac doesn't need a whole bunch of air, compared to a furnace.
Think of a plenum for your furnace with an air filter installed. The filter slides out the side of the plenum.
Now, what I'm thinking of is a plenum (or box of sorts), several feet long with several filters, lets say 6-12" apart. For sake of argument, the plenum box is long enough where you slide 10 filters into it.
One end of the plenum is open to outside. The other end contains your shop vac with only the hose blowing air coming into the house.
When you fire up your shop vac, it's pulling air through 10 filters. Depending on the "stuff" in the air it's filtering, you wait some period of time then remove the filter closest to outside. You're now pulling through 9 filters. Wait again, pull another and down to 8...
Basically, they're in series and the filters are "tear offs". Depending on how it's setup, with strings or something attached to each filter, you could do the tear-offs from inside the house.
Assuming the "stuff" gets to your place fast, when you first start up your shop-vac, you're pulling through 10 filters. As time goes by and the "stuff" settles, you've been doing tear-offs so there's less filters but hopefully less stuff in the air due to the settling.
Worst case, you hold your breath and run out and install 10 new filters.
If you only get 5 hours per filter, it bought you 2+ days before a filter change is needed.
Running it constantly puts high-pressure in your house. Not as critical to tape things off since the high-pressure will push out the cracks in doors and such back to the lower pressure outside.
Thoughts?
rebel
09-30-2011, 04:22 PM
same for a water filter set-up. a big arse bong!
I don't perceive that much dust where I am. It might be more of concern in AK or the PNW. I see the dust here as more of a nuisance rather than a threat. That certainly wasn't the case in the Dust Bowl days but either way I think running the shop/vac alone might clean up the air in a sealed area.
You could certainly overpressure a house to keep stuff out of it. I had the power company do that a few years back on an efficiency test. They sealed the front door with it open and inserted a fan that overpressured the house about a 1.5 PSI and then tested the house to see how sealed it was. So I know it can be done and be done pretty easily.
I think if you have a plenum outside then whatever is falling is going to plug filter 1 pretty quickly then 2 then 3. No different that your car air filter if you tried to drive in it.
The other concern that someone mentioned to me in a PM is that all electrical devices including computers and laptops have be powered down and covered up or the ash can destroy them. So that has to be taken into consideration as well.
Rebel - Is a big arse bong King Bong?
crashdive123
09-30-2011, 07:50 PM
If you went the plenum route it could be on the inside. A small opening to the outside that can be sealed with a hard plate and gasket (when filtration not in use or changing filters) with the removable plenum attaching over the opening using wing nuts to seal it against the gasket. The key in any particulate filtration system is to have a good, high efficiency filter with a pre-filter that is easily changed/cleaned.
rebel
10-01-2011, 07:41 AM
Rebel - Is a big arse bong King Bong?
Glad to be of some help! http://realityglitch.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/dk.jpg
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