Not Lonely at All

[ronjnk]

Hi to all that responded to my initial post about listing a classified. I don't mind hanging around occasionally but have rarely used the forums of various boards. I find the various threads and hierarchy confusing. I'm not sure if this is the appropriate thread to respond or write to. If this should be going somewhere else, feel free to move it. I'll just give the board a quick sense of who we are. My wife and I have been off grid all our adult lives. Since 1979 or so. We have no idea what an electric bill is. We homesteaded in Maine for about 20 years and now live in the Canadian wilderness for over 11 years. Only way in is by float plane and we only fly out twice a year for a few days for resupply. That's the only time we see other people is during those few days in civilization. We have many hobbies including wood working by hand, quilting, knitting and numerous other things. We're always busy and although we aren't anti social, enjoy our time out here alone. We look forward to resupplying in town and then flying to the bush again. The house and homestead here is well set up and for the most part, you'd never know you were in the bush amenity wise. We designed and built our homes, have a large garden and can much of we eat, have butchered, cured, and smoked our meats, make our own soap etc etc. The house is superinsulated to deal with -55 and we did some things different than a standard house construction and I worked out all the details of our solar electric system. I'm past the days of tooting my own horn and am mentioning things only in case someone has a question regarding something I've written. We have a lot of experience and I'd be happy to discuss a particular topic or answer any questions. Ron

[DOGMAN]

Ron that sounds awesome. Good for you. One question- how do you fund your existence? Solar Panels, Bush planes, all the supplies and materials are expensive....what kind of work do you do to pay for it all?

[ronjnk]

Hi Dogman,
It is awesome out here and we do love the wilderness. You are right that there is an initial investment in materials and panels etc. There was a large cost in flying everything out here. The house design and materials chosen tried to give us the biggest bang for our money. Not only did we design for costs, but weight, ease of use in construction and durability were factors. The exterior is all metal. It is light to fly in, durable and saved us from a few forest fires. The house is 2 story and we have most amenities of any other home. As far as float plane, it is expensive but is offset by the fact that we do not have a vehicle and it's associated costs.... insurance, fuel, repairs, depreciation and purchase price. Now that we have the homestead set up, it is relatively cheap to live here. We have 2 large chest freezers. Every couple of years we fly in a whole pig and side of beef. We do our own processing and then we are set for meat for several years. The garden and bush take care of much of our vegetable and fruit needs. I am fortunate that I found a job in the bush for the occasional dollar. Generally only work about 3 months in a year. Sometimes we just bag it and stay out here for the whole year without working. Mineral exploration is a job that happens in the bush. We buy in bulk for many of our supplies and I'd venture to say we live cheaper than most now. We still have satellite TV, internet , the whole works.

[rebel]

I may be wrong but, a couple of red flags flew up. Sorry Ron if that sounds harsh. we had a guy who paddled his canoe about 90 miles each way twice a year for supplies.

[ronjnk]

Hi Rebel,
I'm not sure if you mean you are skeptical. If so, I respect that. You will find that we are somewhat unique and we have been urged by many to write a book. We've been published in Backhome magazine and some other back to the land magazine. I tried to do webinars for school kids from here. We have much to teach. I can't tell you the amount of time I spent writing and creating several webinars but it really didn't fly. I did the initial webinar, got lots of favorable response but I think a lack of school funds hurt us. Our life style out here was one of the webinars. I also through hiked the Appalachian Trail and had a webinar on that as well as just a general alternative energy webinar. The reason I came across this website a few days ago is because we would like to sell our homestead. I had the website listed initially but the moderator deleted it. It is listed on many sites on the web but you need to search for it specifically and until I get 100 posts I can't point you in the right direction. I wish I could show you some of the photos of a wall of flames approach our homestead as we bobbed in our boat. If you would like to further discuss those red flags I'd be happy to. We're the real deal.
Ron

[rebel]

Ron,
I sent you a PM. I think you can post a web site your signature section. Just not in the main body. ???

[rebel]

Here's Ron's place. http://www.inthewilderness.net/ Nice!

[ronjnk]

Thanks Rebel. Don't hesitate to pass the website on to anybody you think might appreciate what we've done here.
Ron

[Sourdough]

Welcome to the forum.

[kyratshooter]

What alien technology have you tapped into for your "off grid" internet access? And with all this "webnar" work and internetting why is 100 posts such a problem?

What powers those two large chest freezers, your satallite, the water pump for all your "aminities"?

Satallite and internet are not free. Neither is "super insulation" or solar pannels, inverters and battery banks, flown in building materials and furnishings.

You never did actually say what you did for a living, besides hunt fish and not pay bills, or how you grub-staked any of this.

If you can pull this off I would recommend you stay where you are, because you are not going to live anywhere near as good in civilization on zero income or only working when you feel like it!

[rebel]

Rat, in the web site it says diesel gen and solar. I had my doubts but, not now. Good luck with the sale and for getting what you need in a new home.

[ronjnk]

Hi Kyratshooter,
If you go to the website and look at one of the pictures listed, you will note a 1.2 meter satellite dish. We pay approx. $59/month for accessing the world. That allows us to keep in touch with family, take care of financial stuff and putz the internet. 100 posts are needed on this website in order for me to be allowed to list our property on this websites "classified" section. I only found this site yesterday. Again, if you look at the website, you will see what powers our stuff. Solar panels on the roof and a wind turbine that you might not see on the pictures. Keep in mind, you can't just buy any freezer or appliance. They need to be ultra efficient. Even our refrigerator/freezer is a sunfrost which is very efficient. Most things we have are 120 vac but consider buying some DC appliances because they are more efficient. No I don't hunt and fish for food. I do fish but just for fun. Not big on eating fish. And I did sort of mention that there is mineral exploration in the North country so I occasionally get jobs in that field. Ron

[crashdive123]

Ronjnk - as has been said a couple of times now - you can post a link to your site, but only as part of your signature. The only restriction is you cannot post it in the body of your post. As far as pictures go - feel free to post away (just not links to the pictures on your site). If you have trouble with either of those actions please feel free to ask for help.

[DOGMAN]

Ron,
Don't get turned off from this site, just because we're skeptical at first. A lot of people come on here and confuse their "internet life" with their "real life" and they like to give advice and act like an authority on stuff that they've never actually done. So, for us who are really dedicated to this stuff it makes it a challenge to sort through the fantasy lives and the real deal. That being said, your place is very close to my "ideal" place.

Your place looks great! Are there any restrictions/covenants on the land? Could a person run a tourism operation (dog sled tours, fishing & canoe trips, bushcraft school)out of there, if they built a few small cabins? How many acres do you own there?

[crashdive123]

Are there other homesteads on the lake?

[ronjnk]

Hi CrashDive123,
I didn't post the link. I understand and will abide by those rules you and the board have set. I had a PM that requested my link. Was I allowed to give it to him in a PM? After he received my PM response he posted the link. Feel free to delete it if you want. In answer to your other question, no there are no other homesteads on our lake. Thanks , Ron

[ronjnk]

Hello Dogman,
I fully appreciate what you said. Family and friends know us and nothing surprises them but we do have people scratching their heads when we meet them and it is hard for them to comprehend what we have done. Thank you for your kind comments on our place. We do not own the land. It is a crown lease. It is cheap and as long as you keep the place neat and pay on time you should never have any problem with lease renewal. We have a recreational lease and garden lease. In order to make it a commercial venture, you would have to fill out the paperwork and have the government review it. I don't see why they would not approve it but that would be the step you would need to explore. As you can imagine, this lease gives us access to the whole world out here. I think the government concern would mostly deal with over fishing the lake. If you were to pursue eco tourism that might be the best way to try. Thanks, Ron

[ronjnk]

Hi Crashdive123,
It's me again. I really don't want to piss off anybody on the board here especially the moderators. I also don't want to have anybody else in trouble for posting my link. Please just confirm that if requested via a PM, that I can respond in that PM and give them my link. I don't know what you mean, that I can post the link as part of my signature but it's not important. I will not post my link period until I have met whatever requirements are needed from the board.
Ron

[Rick]

Yes, Ron. You are good to go. You can confer via PM as you see fit. Someone else can post your link with no trouble. You are just restricted from posting your own link to a website you have an interest in. The rule is just there to reduce the spam on the forum.

Are you on or near Daly Lake?

[Winter]

That is one sweet setup Ron. I'd be a little nervous that the crown would cancel my lease. Maybe it's just that the word "Crown" makes me paranoid.

[finallyME]

If you look at the bottom of some people's post, you will see a phrase or something. It is the same for every post, and generally has nothing to do with what they are commenting on. For instance, Crash's says "Can't means won't". That is the signature line. It is the same for every post you make. This is the place that you can put a link to your site. To edit, or add, your own personal signature, first click on the "settings" link at the top right of the website. This should take you to your personal settings page. If you scroll down the page, on the left hand side, you will see an "edit signature". If you click that link, it will help you fill in something for your signature line. Also on the settings page, you can edit your avatar (that is the picture that shows on every post in the upper left corner). Hopefully this helps.

[crashdive123]

Hi CrashDive123,
I didn't post the link. I understand and will abide by those rules you and the board have set. I had a PM that requested my link. Was I allowed to give it to him in a PM? After he received my PM response he posted the link. Feel free to delete it if you want. In answer to your other question, no there are no other homesteads on our lake. Thanks , Ron


Hi Crashdive123,
It's me again. I really don't want to piss off anybody on the board here especially the moderators. I also don't want to have anybody else in trouble for posting my link. Please just confirm that if requested via a PM, that I can respond in that PM and give them my link. I don't know what you mean, that I can post the link as part of my signature but it's not important. I will not post my link period until I have met whatever requirements are needed from the board.
Ron

If you are asked via PM for a link to your site then you can respond. Where it becomes a problem in PM's is if you sent that link to member(s) via PM that is unsolicited. The link that Rebel posted is fine. I would have deleted it if it were not.

You haven't upset anybody. Nobody is in trouble for posting your link (Rebel finds ways all his own to do that:innocent:). FinallyME explained the signature thing pretty good in post 21.

[ronjnk]

Thanks Rick for the go ahead. We know where the Fosters/Daly are. Have you been in the area?

[ronjnk]

Thanks also to crashdive123 and finallyMe for the feedback and proper signature info. I'll have to think about that. I'll probably just leave it alone for now. Sourdough... I get the feeling you've been around the bush a little too.

[crashdive123]

Not lately. {{{snort, chuckle}}}

[ronjnk]

Hello Winter,
Thanks for the kind words on our setup. I hear you on the "Crown" but they have been utterly fantastic. I'd have to check but I believe they put out a 10 year lease. After 10 years you just renew. Evidently it has been that way for a long time. We have a sizable investment in time, sweat, and money and to be honest we aren't worried about it at all as far as being leased out here.

[Winter]

That's good news Ron.

[crashdive123]

How is the Crown about leasing to non citizens?

[ronjnk]

Not a problem at all crashdive123. We are US citizens. However, I checked and foreigners have no restrictions on purchasing this place. There are many US citizens that have places in Canada as well as Canadians owning US property.

[ronjnk]

I should mention that for non residents of Canada to check with immigration Canada on how long you can stay in Canada before you have to return to your country. I think it is 179 days but better check. In other words, you can buy property in Canada with no problem and you can legally stay here for some period of time (179?????? days). You solve the problem by becoming a permanent resident of Canada.

[BENESSE]

Ron, how far do you have to travel by boat to reach "civilization"? By that I mean any town with medical care and basic supplies. You said you fly in and out. Thing is, what if you can't fly? Sick, weather, etc. And, if one doesn't fly (not a licensed pilot) is your location just not right for them?
How have you dealt with health/medical needs in the 11 years you lived there?
How close is the closest neighbor?

[ronjnk]

Hello Benesse,
You have some good questions. Boat won't get you anywhere. The outlet to our lake is boulder strewn. It's a 100 miles by air to get to medical or shopping. Snowmobile won't do it either. You would be weeks hacking a trail through the woods and you ultimately have at least one serious river crossing. Air is the only way in and out. We are not pilots and have to charter a flight to get in and out. That's why we only fly out twice a year. Pretty expensive. Not really sure where the nearest neighbor is. There are some trappers cabins within 10-15 miles of us. We generally don't see a soul unless there is a forest fire. When the big mushroom cloud is billowing nearby, they are a welcome sight!!! In the 11 years we've only had a couple visits from a distant friend flying in. We have had to get medical help and it is a concern. The problems were not life threatening but obviously were a concern. We have a good medicine closet of stuff since the local medical community knows our situation. We do have a chopper pad open so that is also a way to get in and out. Only did the chopper routine once for a fire. The really dicey times of the year are freeze up and Spring thaw. We have to wait either for solid ice or the lake to open to get the float plane in. Winter time the floats are off and the planes are on skis.

[DOGMAN]

Not lately. {{{snort, chuckle}}}

Now thats my kinda humor!

[Sourdough]

Ronjnk, What size aircraft do you come in and out on. I am guessing C-185 or a Beaver........?

[BENESSE]

Ron, you mentioned 10-15 miles to some trappers' cabins. What's beyond? How far would you have to travel on foot to reach say, a small settlement? Can you do it in a vehicle of any sort? Is it possible to pre-position a vehicle at some location from which you can then travel easier?
Can you use any materials off the land to build with (rocks, timber, etc.) or is that off limits given the land lease set up?
And finally, how did you discover this particular area on which you decided to build?

[ronjnk]

Good Morning Sourdough,
You are right on for the most part. The 185 is the cheapest way to get in here with the Beaver next in line. Then the Single Otter, Turbo Otter which is I believe is a juiced up version of the Single and then the Twin Otter. We used the Twin to haul much of the building supplies in. We did that in the winter since skis are a little cheaper than float. We prepositioned all the building supplies and then over a weekend we made a good 10 trips with the Twin. Talk about being overheated at 0 and beat by the end of that weekend. Ron

[ronjnk]

Good Morning Benesse,
You asked "what is beyond?" More of the same. You are virtually surrounded by woods, water and wilderness. Other than the rare trappers cabin, there is a scattering of tourist outfitters for the summer months. We literally don't see a human being other than those times we fly out for resupply. We are too far out there for anybody to walk in here. This territory is so vast that it isn't often we see a float plane go by in the summer. It does make our day when one goes close by and we get to wave to him as he goes by. We know most of the pilots. There is no way to preposition a vehicle. It's about 65 air miles to the nearest small, real small community. A little less than that to hit a road. Not a good idea to bushwhack 60 miles. Stick with the airplane. I have heard there are a few rough snowmobile trails that the trappers use but even then it is a few days travel, extremely dangerous and there aren't any trails anywhere near us. Snow depth, water crossings, blowdowns. Just a few of the problems of snowmobiling on a rough winters trail. There is nothing as thrilling as taxiing down a lake in a float plane and lifting off from the water. Air is your best bet. Your lease is yours to do with as you want. You can use logs or native stone to build with. That is what many of the trappers cabins and some tourist camps use. We are in a sandy area where our homestead is. We needed a site with something to pass for soil so we could have a big garden. There are areas though on the lake that are stone everywhere deposited by the glaciers. Lots of patience, lots talking to people and lots of time studying maps helped us find this location. Ron

[hunter63]

Very cool homestead, thanks for posting....Why are you selling it?

[ronjnk]

Hi Hunter,
Thanks for the kind comment. We are getting older and some medical issues are creeping in. Nothing urgent though so there is no rush to selling. We figured it will take a unique buyer so we'll at least get it out there and see what happens. I'm surprised half the board isn't fighting over buying it. arf arf Ron

[Sourdough]

We are getting older and some medical issues are creeping in. Nothing urgent though so there is no rush to selling. We figured it will take a unique buyer so we'll at least get it out there and see what happens. I'm surprised half the board isn't fighting over buying it. arf arf Ron

Yes, I am in roughly the same position. Lots of buyers for a dollar down and a dollar a month. Sadly I'll have to subdivide in order to get the price down.

[DOGMAN]

So Ron,
What community do you fly in and out of? Just trying to figure out the basic area your in. Are you south of Lake Athabasca...but North of Cree Lake? I know that area is vast, roadless and remote with a lot of lakes. I have canoed part of the Athabasca River (in Alberta closer to Jasper). But, I have always been interested in the vast land between Lake Athabasca and Reindeer Lake

[hunter63]

Been around the block a few times my self, or I should say WE have.....You situation is a lot of peoples dream, or at least they think it's their dream...Till you get there.
Takes special people to keep it going for any length of time.

Have been a fan Of Mother Earth News Magizine since very early on, used to get a kick out of the "Them That's doing" segment, discussing peoples homesteads in various places, kinda protrayed as the ideal goal.......Then later on they would re-visit them, the same people, to see how it was going....and in a lot of cases they no longer were togeather or living that life style.

Problem is when you are young, you have the energy, health, and dreams...but not the money...then when you have the money, to do stuff like this....you look a lot harder at those health issues, ease of life style, and the recliner seems to win out.

Good luck to you, hope you find a good buyer, .....20 years ago, I would have jumped at this......it was about then we bought or land and started our "Homestead".

[ronjnk]

Hi Sourdough, Didn't realize you were selling something too. I have this advertised in various real estate sites on the net. Shortly after posting the ads we had a "Russian millionaire" interested in buying our property sight unseen. He wanted to retire here. He was going to send his unemployed British buddy to do the closing. Try as he might, the British chap just couldn't come up with the money to fly over here for the closing. If we sent over 460 pounds he could get over here to close the deal and we would be reimbursed by the millionaire dude. We couldn't believe our good fortune and were ready to do that since it sounded so reasonable. Only problem was, we couldn't figure out what he wanted 460 pounds of. I thought to myself.... can't be steel, that'd be too heavy to ship over there. Can't be 460 pounds of gold, that stuffs worth money isn't it? so ultimately we bailed out since we just couldn't figure out the 460 pounds of. arf arf Hard to believe people fall for that stuff evidently. Ron

[ronjnk]

Yes Hunter. Mother earth news and the Nearings were the gospel. Used to subscribe to that magazine in the late 70's. I'm sure there are a lot of dreamers out there but there is that handful of people that possess not only the financials but the drive, desire and knowledge to pull it off. It's just a question of finding that right person. That's how I stumbled across this site. Intended to place a classified ad. Here I am pecking away on the keyboard. Eventually I'll get an ad on this site and we'll see if we can target that "right" person. Fortunately or unfortunately, we still have the giddy up and go of 20 year olds, just have those creeping medical things.

You are also right that you have to be matched to a pretty good companion. Fortunately, when you are this far out, if you don't get along, nobody will hear the screaming, shouting and banging of doors. arf arf

[ronjnk]

Hi Dogman,
We have some friends that do canoe trips every year in the North of the province or in the NWT. Evidently some awesome canoe trips. You are spot on in the vast, roadless area with an unbelievable number of lakes and rivers. We are South of Cree and are familiar with Southend. Drove there once. La Ronge and Missinipe are both float plane bases. Ron

[DOGMAN]

Isn't there a road that goes North above the Churchill River up near the southern part of Cree Lake? Are you east of that- but west of Southend?

[ronjnk]

The Churchill River flows more West to East and actually goes by the town of Missinnipe which is one of the float plane bases. We are North of the Churchill. When I responded to one of the other questions this morning, that person asked about access here. The Churchill River is one of the major obstacles to snowmobiling North. It is done but can be dangerous.

[DOGMAN]

My last question was incorrect directionally- I have edited it. I had misremembered that area, then I consulted a map and saw that road...that looks like it goes north of the Churchill River and heads towards Cree Lake....are you east of that road (don't know its name)

[hunter63]

Hi Sourdough, Didn't realize you were selling something too. I have this advertised in various real estate sites on the net. Shortly after posting the ads we had a "Russian millionaire" interested in buying our property sight unseen. He wanted to retire here. He was going to send his unemployed British buddy to do the closing. Try as he might, the British chap just couldn't come up with the money to fly over here for the closing. If we sent over 460 pounds he could get over here to close the deal and we would be reimbursed by the millionaire dude. We couldn't believe our good fortune and were ready to do that since it sounded so reasonable. Only problem was, we couldn't figure out what he wanted 460 pounds of. I thought to myself.... can't be steel, that'd be too heavy to ship over there. Can't be 460 pounds of gold, that stuffs worth money isn't it? so ultimately we bailed out since we just couldn't figure out the 460 pounds of. arf arf Hard to believe people fall for that stuff evidently. Ron

Funny you should mention that, had an E-mail "from" a cousin that was stranded in Sri Lanka, and need $1400 bucks to get home....Too bad it was a cousin that I didn't like anyway, so it served her right.....Tooo bad.....LOL

[ronjnk]

Without consulting a map, my guess is you see a road headed to Key lake. Yes, we are East of that. You will also note a road that heads to Southend and Reindeer Lake Northbound. We are West of that.

[DOGMAN]

My family and I are planning a big move. We are trying to sale our home and business in Montana (Yellowstone region) and move to a very remote location and start a tourist lodge that features paddling and dogsledding. We've been lucky that in the past decade, specifically the past 3 years (thanks NY TIMES) that we've built quite a following of clients who want an even wilder, more remote service than we currently provide, so we are hunting for that perfect spot. Once we sale our house/property here we will have the money and the clients to do it and to sustain it- we just have to have the perfect place. Your general region is a place I had been thinking of...

[DOGMAN]

Without consulting a map, my guess is you see a road headed to Key lake. Yes, we are East of that. You will also note a road that heads to Southend and Reindeer Lake Northbound. We are West of that.

wow...your in one of the areas we had really been researching.

[ronjnk]

Could be Karma. We've got some trails through the woods that we walk mostly in the winter. We have a camp site setup on one of the islands down the lake that we go to when we want to get away from it all. arf arf Lots of canoeing on this lake but to hit a small river/lake system, you'd have to take our trail North for a mile. Then I suspect you could canoe for miles and miles although there would be some rapids and portages to deal with. Ron

[crashdive123]

What are your annual costs? Equipment, food, fuel, supplies, satellite phone and internet service (you said $59 per month for both?), air travel? What does a 10 year lease run? What are some of the other expenses that you incur (maintenance related or unexpected occurrences)? How long is your growing season? You said that you are a US citizen. Do you have dual citizenship, or do you have to leave Canada every 179 days? How long do you have to stay out of the country?

[ronjnk]

Crashdive, Good to hear from you. I was meaning to tell you I like your sense of humor. Never realized what I wrote to Sourdough until you commented on it. I was trying to think of a signature. What do you think of " enjoying the bush" Now on to your questions: (all prices are close)
internet service $66 (forgot about tax)/month
satellite TV $54/month
Satellite phone $50/month
Taxes $648/yr
Leases $342/yr
house insurance $750- 1200 depending on coverage
food $4300
fuel and supplies $2950
repairs and misc $2100
flying $3590 ( had to bring the big plane in once, would normally be quite a bit less)

Some of those totals are from our 2010 expenses but give you a sense of costs. We are US citizens but permanent residents of Canada. The growing season is relatively short. Last frost is generally in June and first frost is generally September. If you look at our website, you will notice a picture of our garden. We grow most everything here including corn. Not much we can't grow. We've been enjoying cantaloupe for breakfast the last week. Granted, we have to do things differently here but it can all be done. Removable hoop houses for the garden, a greenhouse and because the house has 10 inch thick walls, that is the width of our windowsills. Every Spring they are all fully loaded with seedlings started in March and April.

[Sourdough]

Say Ron, You Know any semi-ugly, old, women, that would like that lifestyle..........Color don't matter as long as they can shoot straight..........?????

[rebel]

Say Ron, You Know any semi-ugly, old, women, that would like that lifestyle..........Color don't matter as long as they can shoot straight..........?????

"women" as in plural?

[BENESSE]

SD, you just might get lucky if you posted this request in the Classified Marketplace section. It might inspire some people to unload their PITA MIL if you throw in some fancy gear in the deal. Win/win all around.

[crashdive123]

Now that right there is funny I don't care who you are. True, but funny.

[Rick]

"Tell me again why you bought mom a ticket to Alaska."
"I just felt she needed a vacation. Simple as that."
"Then why is it a one way ticket?"
"One way? Seriously? Well, that's obviously a mistake. I'll take care of that tomorrow."
"But she leaves tonight. Why are you smiling?"

[Willie]

Ron, nice place you have there! I really like that stove.


Willie

[ronjnk]

Thanks Willie. It cooks, bakes, heats our hot water and heats the upstairs. It is a good stove.

[ronjnk]

Sordough, Nah , I don't know anybody offhand. I only hang with the good looking stuff, BUT, next time in town, I'll keep you in mind. What price range were you thinking of? Ron

[crashdive123]

Crashdive, Good to hear from you. I was meaning to tell you I like your sense of humor. Never realized what I wrote to Sourdough until you commented on it. I was trying to think of a signature. What do you think of " enjoying the bush" Now on to your questions: (all prices are close)
internet service $66 (forgot about tax)/month
satellite TV $54/month
Satellite phone $50/month
Taxes $648/yr
Leases $342/yr
house insurance $750- 1200 depending on coverage
food $4300
fuel and supplies $2950
repairs and misc $2100
flying $3590 ( had to bring the big plane in once, would normally be quite a bit less)

Some of those totals are from our 2010 expenses but give you a sense of costs. We are US citizens but permanent residents of Canada. The growing season is relatively short. Last frost is generally in June and first frost is generally September. If you look at our website, you will notice a picture of our garden. We grow most everything here including corn. Not much we can't grow. We've been enjoying cantaloupe for breakfast the last week. Granted, we have to do things differently here but it can all be done. Removable hoop houses for the garden, a greenhouse and because the house has 10 inch thick walls, that is the width of our windowsills. Every Spring they are all fully loaded with seedlings started in March and April.

Thanks for the response. I just don't see a way that it would work (for me). A little over $17,000 a year in planned expenses plus the mortgage on $299,000 is over $36,000 a year (10 year mortgage - can't see having a mortgage longer than a lease of the land) works out to over $53,000 a year. Without the ability to earn a substantial living, or already having the cash on hand it doesn't seem feasible. I do hope you find the right customer for your sale. Good luck.

[ronjnk]

You're welcome crashdive. I appreciate you at least considering it. I just want to make sure that everybody understands that they are renewable 10 year leases meaning this lease expires in 2019 and then you get another 10 year lease. Just about all the land in the bush here is leased land. You would have to do some checking but I'd venture to say leases have been done this way for the last 50 years. It's a good source of revenue for the province and I can't see them ending it. Ron

[DOGMAN]

$36,000 a year in mortgage payments- ouch. Thats 3,000 per month in rent! Would it really be a mortgage if you don't own the land?....

[ronjnk]

I guess you have to ask how much would it cost to have a comparable house built in your area? How much is the value of all the assets left behind here listed on our website (snowmobile, furniture, boat etc) ? What is the value of the hybrid electric system and off grid independence? What is the value of the leases on a pristine lake? What is the value of being part of the Canadian wilderness and living a dream? What is the total dollars you would need to invest to fly out here to find your site , fly all the materials in, duplicate our home, fly all the various assets in and be part of the wilderness. I can't answer those questions for anyone but I wish you luck trying to duplicate what we have here for less than the asking price. Especially if you had to hire contractors in to clear the site by hand, dig the foundation by hand and construct the buildings. I would suspect by the time you just totaled your flying costs, you would exceed $35,000- $40,000 Then what is the value of your time to pull this all off with the logistics and planning? Just some thoughts for everybody. Ron

[ronjnk]

In thinking about it, I don't think the analysis is correct. You are making the assumption that the lease is terminated and dead after 10 years. That view is not supported by the historical record. Leases have been continually renewed as long as they are in good standing. If you assume continual renewal, that $36,000/yr for a 10 year mortgage becomes a $12,000/yr over a 30 year mortgage. Although there is no guarantee with any lease renewal, that is true of any lease on the planet or the universe for that matter. We've already been renewed once and are on our second renewal. Structuring your loan so you can prepay principle without penalty will help. We spent some time researching lake front property in various locations both in the US and Canada. Costs are outrageous to have a postage size lot with a home on a lake. I don't know what your research or area is, but I would encourage people to do some checking in a few locations for comparison. Check out lake front property in Saskatchewan too. Ron

[crashdive123]

Actually, a 30 loan would reduce the payments to just over 19,000 a year. The numbers I am using are a ballpark that is dependent on a few factors. In any event Ron I do hope that you participate in other areas of the forum to share your experiences. It would be a loss if you only posted regarding your sale of homestead. We've had discussions on homesteading, sustainable gardening, off-grid power, isolated living, etc. You should be able to bring a lot to the table so to speak in those arenas.

[Rick]

Ron - I have to admit that I'm pretty skeptical of this whole thing. I also understand you don't have a thing in the world to prove to me and if I find this whole thing hard to believe then it's something I have to live with. I get that but I wouldn't want to see any of our members burned over a deal gone bad. And I'm not accusing you of being anything other than what you present yourself to be. But let me offer up a few observations and then ask a single question, which should resolve any skeptics like myself.

1. The costs to transport all the materials that you have was enormous. That stove alone was probably a single fly in and probably cost more than the stove did. Total it all up and you have a small fortune in just flight costs. Simply not doable for someone that only works 3 months out of the year unless your family left you a small fortune or you made a lot of money very quickly and at a young age since you've lived here 30 years.

2. Nothing in your pictures looks 30 years old.

3. I see no massive stacks of firewood to support a 9 +/- month winter. I see a wood shed but we have that much wood stacked around here for use and for aging. I'd think you'd need 10 X that much wood.

4. It would take a rather large plane to haul that boat in. Something the size of a C3 or there about.

5. I don't know what size genny you run the house on but since solar in that region can't be very good given the angle of the sun even in the summer plus night time plus cloud covered days then I have to imagine your fuel tank is pretty large. The logistics of transporting and transferring that much fuel doesn't make a lot of sense. Cost doesn't make a lot of sense either.

6. I see no antennas on or near the house that someone that far north would surely have as a backup communication device and to talk to planes.

7. You haven't answered very many questions directly. You've answered around most of them.

8. Since you are so remote, there is no chance that any of us would just drop in unannounced. Security wouldn't be a big factor either. So here's my question.

What's your GPS coordinates? That way we can take a look at the sat photos and see not only the house but what the surrounding country side looks like. It would be huge selling point, too.

I really could go on and on with my observations that don't make sense but these drive home the point.

Obviously, you don't have to give out anything publicly. If you want to PM me with the coordinates I won't divulge them.

As I said, you don't have to prove anything to me. But it would resolve any questions right up front and not wanting to divulge it will just add to the skepticism.

[ronjnk]

Good Morning Rick,
I respect your doubts. I am an open and honest guy and I'll address every concern you have and then once and for all I'd like to put the doubt issue to bed. You and the board are going to get an education. You will have no doubts after this and although I don't want any endorsement from you to the rest of the board, I would like you to at least say something that says we are legitimate. I will attempt to PM you with our coordinates. I will also attempt to send you some pictures via PM. One of those pictures will show 12 cords of wood in our woodshed with our new stove wrapped in plastic waiting to be installed. Another picture will show our 14 FT??? boat being strapped outside to the floats. It costs extra to tie on to the floats and they don't like to do it much , but canoes and boats are tied on. Unless someone is interested in purchasing our homestead, I will TRUST you not to divulge those pictures or coordinates. You will note the name of the float plane company we generally use. I will provide you with that telephone number and you can call and do whatever you need to do to confirm our existence out here. Crashdive, you are right. I could participate in other boards. I was participating in this thread hoping people would have questions regarding all of those subjects you mention. That's what I want Rick and Cashdive. A healthy dose of skepticism so that people know this truly can be done. Stand by folks for the next installment where I will address each of Rick's observations. I do want people to ask how and why we do things so please feel free to ask. I have already prepared another topic that is dear to my heart to discuss but will let this thread play out. Ron

[DOGMAN]

I was just wondering why you fly in a pig and a side of beef, then process it yourself? Why not just harvest your own caribou or moose. Far cheaper, far less of an environmental impact and more in-touch with your own food source.

[ronjnk]

I have attempted to send the PM out to you Rick and hope part of it got to you. Please confirm that you received it Thanks. I will answer your questions you posed above.

1. The costs were enormous to fly all the stuff in here. That stove was a drop in the bucket to put on the plane. You do not know the size of a twin Otter. I don't know the official specs but am certain depending on fuel weight that it is carrying, it can carry 2000 pounds of stuff. That's 1 ton at a time. It can take a stick of wood 21 feet long inside perhaps a little longer. If you go back to the beginning, I never said we lived here for 30 years. I said we homesteaded in Maine for 20 years and lived out here for over 11 years. We have been off grid and doing this homesteading since approx 1979. No one left us any money sadly. We worked our ever loving asses off when we were younger and I was a workaholic. I worked physically 7 days a week for weeks until I couldn't go any more. Took a day off and repeated. Mostly selective harvest tree logging/skidder. The secret is not to go in to debt too deeply and work until it is prepaid long before it is due. My wife worked hard too towards that objective. Everything we have is bought and paid for by sweat and effort.

2. Explained above. Never claimed to have lived in the bush 30 years. The house is 11 years old. We've been here the same.

3. The picture of 12 cords I will eventually get to you says it all. We burn approx. 7 cords of jack pine and spruce a year to heat our house. I'll get to forest fires in another topic, but we now have unlimited, dead and blown over forest from which to get our firewood. (We still have an oasis of green around us) I designed our home because we wanted a superinsulated house and because I had a chainsaw in my hand for 20 years, I had no desire to cut firewood continually just to heat our house. I researched home construction and didn't like what I found. The issue is thermal bridging from inside to outside via studs plus maximizing insulation in wall and ceiling. I found a way to deal with that. For anyone interested we can discuss further. We have 10 in thick walls and there is probably 24 inches of fiberglass in the attic.

4. Explained above. Boats and canoes are strapped to the outside routinely. I have no idea what a C3 is. Twin Otter will do it. Single Otter will too. The picture I will send you will show that.

5. The generator is 6000 watt. The angle of the sun is directly overhead in the summer and the days are long. Just the opposite in the winter which sucks. You set the solar panel angle to average the best position between those two seasons unless you have solar tracking which we don't. Our website pictures clearly show roof mounted panels. It is an 800 watt array supplemented by a wind turbine. As we speak, we have a new 2KW wind turbine on it's way here. We had a funky 70 mph wind event that destroyed our 1K this summer. In normal times, we rarely need the generator. In winter, sometimes once a week. Keep in mind, in the winter we don't run those 2 chest freezers. They are outside and in the "deep freeze" of winter so power requirements are less in the winter. You can figure we use a drum of diesel a year if that.

6. Again, look at our web pictures. I am communicating with you via internet/satellite. The dish is past the garden in one of the pictures. Our TV antenna is attached to the South side of the house. I never claimed to have communications to talk to pilots. We don't and I suspect it would be frowned upon. We do have a scanner and I am not sure if you can see the tiny antenna for our Irridium satellite phone mounted on the solar panels. Not even sure when that picture was taken so it might not be there. It is only a small dome gizmo the size of my fist.

7. I have answered most questions directly. Unless someone is truly interested in our place there is no need to know our exact location, exactly what I do in mineral exploration or where that exploration takes place or broadcasting personal
details.

8. You are right. We have no worries whatsoever about someone coming in here. Presumably most on this board are interested in homesteading or survival should the world collapse. I have read some of board chatter of bunkers and survival. We have heard of people blowing a million dollars for missile silo bunkers. You can live out here worry free for far less. If the world should collapse, we will be fine. I'll have to get used to eating fish and wild game which I'm not really fond of but we'll survive. We grow as many garden plants as possible using heirloom varieties and save our seed from year to year.

I'm ready for the next set of questions. Fire away. Ron

[Rick]

Rest assured your information will not go any further than your PM. They are considered private and it's a violation of the rules to share information from them unless all parties agree. The only other person that can see them if he chooses is the board owner.

I checked two satellite images with the coordinates that Ron provided, both Google Earth and Europa, and neither provide enough detail in that area to tell much of anything. At an altitude of about 5000 feet it appears there may be some man made roads or trails but below that the pics are just too fuzzy. I cannot say that there are or are not buildings based on the clarity. I will confirm that it is a land locked lake approximately 4 miles in length. The nearest road is around 40 miles with some pretty rugged terrain in between.

I'm sorry, Ron, but I can't do any better than that. I have no desire to call anyone. It's not that important to me. And if you say they strapped the boat to the outside then there are enough off grid folks on here including some former bush pilots that would call your hand if that were not true.

So I can only leave it open to those that might be interested to make up their own minds. I really thought that good quality sat images would have been a selling point for you, however.

I would be very interested in your day to day living, summer and winter, not because I'm skeptical but because I find it fascinating and informative. Living off grid incorporates all the tenants of how our fathers lived and that's something the majority of us strive to understand.

I'll close by saying I hope you take no offense in my challenges. We've had a good number come on here with similar tales of wilderness lifestyles only to track them back to Detroit or some other urban local. It tends to jade one a bit and we try a little harder to prove or disprove when someone comes onboard these days. I think you are fortunate to have the income to enjoy your level of lifestyle.

[ronjnk]

Dogman,
I didn't see your question until I finished with Rick's response. If it were up to my wife, that's just what she would do. I grew up on beef, pork and chicken and wild game has no appeal. I know we have this food source out here that is not being utilized but I just am not in to wild game. I like fried flounder and grew up having some of that. We have eaten the rare fish here and it's not bad. It needs to be fried though for me to eat it. I have no problem slaughtering and butchering and we did all that in Maine when we raised our own meat. I hope the board doesn't think I'm a pansy now for not being fond of wild game. arf arf

[ronjnk]

I'd like to send Rick some photos in a PM. Those photos are in "My Documents" folder. When I am in PM to Rick, it asks for a URL to my images. How do I get Rick some of my document images in a PM? Is it possible? Thanks

[Rick]

Sorry Ron, I was emailing you when you posted. You should have an email from me shortly using my email address. I figured that would be easier all around.

[ronjnk]

Fair enough Rick. Thanks for at least trying. I could have told you, you won't see much. There is no need for high resolution in the bush. I would have thought though that you would have seen a small clearing with an outline of our house. You should have been looking at the North end of the Lake. You will see a finger of water that extends North on the lake. We are located on a sand beach that starts at that finger. Probably I'm confusing you but the coordinates are for the North end of the lake. I'd still like to get you some pictures. I think you will find them informative. And we take no offense to someone asking for further information. I have dealt with many kooks. It's part of life. I have no doubt there have been some wild claims on this forum over the years. I actually have a high degree of admiration for you and some of the other long timers that want to validate some of the claims made on the board. I apologize to all and am sincere in that all we wanted to do was list our place on the classified section. That really was our primary interest. I had no interest in pecking away daily here. However, having said that, I see there are some genuine people around that have a genuine desire to at least be self sufficient. In all honesty, I don't know how long I will continue the pecking but it will be awhile yet. There are a few things that I want to impart to the forum before I leave. If I can educate someone or give them some understanding of our lifestyle then it will be worth it. I get the feeling we are the most remote people on the board since it has somewhat blown peoples minds. Anybody else "out there" ? Our weather is sunny and mid 30's now. We normally have our first snow by now but is has been unusually warm. Actually went to the low 80's about 5 days ago. We'll pay for it yet. When the weather turns it will be with a vengeance. Ron

[ronjnk]

Rick, I've sent an email with some pictures. Please let me know if they did not arrive or you had problems opening. Thanks

[Rick]

Ron did share the pictures with me and I'm pretty certain I'm allergic to that much work. I also confess I did not know you could strap a boat to the outside of a plane. There has to be some serious aerodynamic issues with that. I do have a much better sense of his claims and appreciate his persistence in supporting them.

On the sat photos, I did see the clearings at the North end but it isn't clear enough to proclaim it man made or natural. There does appear to be three separate beaches. One at the home location and two more to the northwest about equal distance apart and about equal size in length. From that height it's hard to determine if it's a sand beach or rock but that's what I can see.

As I indicated in my email back to you there are several other off grid folks on here. So there's a wealth of knowledge if not common life styles.

[ronjnk]

Thanks Rick. See that, you did learn something today. You learned planes can fly with boats hanging off. arf arf I will be creating a new thread under "General emergency preparedness". It is a topic that is important to me and I encourage everyone to read and ask questions. I will continue to respond to any questions on this thread and hope you will ask how and why we do certain things while living in the wilderness.
Ron

[cyc79]

I haven't been around for a long time now but upon finally popping in I see this thread.
ronjnk-I don't want to hijack here but rather would like to provide a bit of information which may or may not be of interest.
Regarding flying external loads from the Transport Canada website: http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/certification/guidance-500-500-011a-1302.htm

I too have a cabin in the northern part of this province and have zero concerns about the crown lease. Private cabins and commercial hunting/fishing lodges are leased-it's nothing to worry about, it's just the way things are.

DOGMAN:this is for you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saskatchewan_Highway_914
If Saskatchewan is what interests you, look here http://www.resortsforsalecanada.com/Saskatchewan.htm
A lodge already established is much simpler to obtain (with the right funding of course) than buying a different class of property and trying to get it reclassified from a recreational lease to an outfitters lease. If you have any questions please feel free to pm me. I'll be around today but then gone back to the bush till mid October so no internet access till I get back.

[ronjnk]

Hi Cyc79, Thanks for the input. Have a safe trip.
Ron

[rebel]

I'll bump this for anyone just checking on.
http://www.inthewilderness.net/

Ron, I'll canx the URL when you get your classified up.

[ronjnk]

Rebel, That was really very nice of you. My wife and I truly appreciate your thoughtfulness. Thank you! I hope your day goes well. Ron

[crashdive123]

Actually - even when you are able to put up the classified, you will still not be able to put the link to your site in the body of your post. Chris (owner) explained that in the post he started when he added the section. The only way you can link your site or a site you have interest in is through your signature. I think by now anybody that wants to view your site has the information (and link) they need to do so.

[BENESSE]

Ron, the advantage of putting it in your signature is that you can do it right now, and it's there every time you post until you decide to change it.
Just to get an idea, note Rick's signature. Makes sense, and it's easy. And you get max. exposure that way.

[ronjnk]

Hello Benesse,
I was just researching the classified threads and studying how to do a signature and here you are writing as a suggestion to us. We do appreciate it and I'm going to give it a shot. To be honest, I was just blown away when I looked at our web page and saw over 450 hits on the counter. Ron

[Rick]

That was just me going back and forth. (just kidding. It wasn't)

[ronjnk]

I had a good laugh with that one Rick.

[ronjnk]

OK, so here goes. If this is unacceptable, please let me know and delete it but I think I am interpreting your signature concept correctly. Thanks.

[Rick]

Perfect. Nothing wrong with that at all.

[BENESSE]

Ron, if you add www. in front of inthewilderness.net so it reads www.inthewilderness.net (http://www.inthewilderness.net) then people can click right on it and go right to your site. It's just quicker, that's all.

[ronjnk]

Far out! Can you tell I'm new to this. Thanks for the education and feedback. Ron

[Rick]

Ron - I'm curious. When you get thrown in the dog house......where on earth do you go?

[ronjnk]

I go to my woodworking shop downstairs with my tail between my legs and lock the door. I don't come out of my "bunker" until she apologizes or makes me something chocolate. Sometimes it takes awhile.

[Rick]

There are lies, damned lies and husband lies. That, sir, was a husband lie. Women don't apologize. They just glare with their hands on their hips.

[ronjnk]

She can glare all she wants. What I can't see from behind my "bunker " door can't hurt me.

[ronjnk]

Hello Forum,
It's been a few years since I passed through. I'm uncertain how many people still remain from years ago when I first popped in to answer some questions so I'll briefly give a synopsis.

My wife and I are the owners of the remote homestead you see at ************* I initially stopped in to do a post about life in the bush since I just assumed there were lots of us living in the wilderness. As it turns out, there was some disbelief that we lived as remote as we do and it took a bit of convincing before we got things resolved. This thread became a wonderful discourse on our wilderness homestead. I wrote a few other threads including an important one titled Forest fires burn me up. That is as pertinent today as it ever was for anybody living in fire zones.

We are of course still out here in the bush and still have no neighbors. We generally only see another human when we come out for resupply every 6 months. It is at that time that we pick up mail, take care of resupply, get our few days of civilization, and then head to the bush again.

After 17 years living out here in the bush and being off-grid since about 1980, my wife and I have accumulated a wealth of knowledge and stories. ************** I'll take the reader for a vicarious journey with me as we look back on the last 36 years of an off-grid self-sufficient lifestyle. It is written with humor and plenty of information. I'd be happy to answer any questions about the book.

I'll monitor this thread and take a peek as time permits on other threads. As followers of this earlier thread know, I love answering questions so fire away. I have started a monthly blog post on a few other off grid sites giving readers a sense of our life and what we are up to on a seasonal basis. This blogging is all new to me. I see there is a blog on this site. I would welcome feedback from others on whether anyone would care to have me blog and how to properly use this site's blog. Thanks for reading.
Ron
PS. For what it's worth, some of you may get a kick out of my book's facebook page. **************

[Solar Geek]

Bob can't wait to read through this thread. I'm currently only on my iPhone and don't want to read the tiny print. But I'll check it as soon as I get home on Sunday. Thanks for posting!

[Rick]

I'm not certain how many members are still around but the rules haven't changed. You cannot link to any site you have an interest in and you cannot sell your wares. You have it in your signature and that's the only place you can put it. Welcome back.

[ronjnk]

Got it Rick. There's no way I can keep track of all the rules for the various sites so thanks for getting me on track as far as this site is concerned.

I could use some feedback from the boards seasoned posters/bloggers. I have just started to do some blog posts on other sites. My intent is to do a monthly post of what we are up to from the perspective of the season and what things are happening in our neck of the woods.

For example, I am now preparing a post of how we are starting our indoor seeds, how we will have salads while snow is still on the ground etc. There will be pictures associated with each posts. I will occasionally cut and paste some appropriate paragraphs from my book since I have no desire to rewrite what is already available and written.

So the Question is: If I make monthly blog posts on the various facets of our remote homestead, is there any problem cutting and pasting excerpts from my book and crediting the book since it is copyright material. Since the book title is in my signature, I see no need to mention the book by name but will instead make reference such as "see below for book title"

Assuming that is OK, I'll give the blogging a shot. Hopefully somebody might find some useful information in it. Thanks, Ron

[Seniorman]

Interesting digs and location, that's for sure. How much does it cost to have a float plane from "civilization" fly to and from the lake dock near the cabin? How do you communicate with the float plane company when you need a "visit?"

Does the solar system support a large freezer? Or when you kill a moose and Black bear, do you have to smoke and jerk the meat, can it, or can you freeze it?

Just wondering???

S.M.

[Rick]

You are more than welcome to cut and paste. Just no links.

[ronjnk]

Rick... Thanks for the feedback.

Seniorman... thanks for the questions. Float plane is costly. That cost is based on the size of the plane. We have 4 options: Cessna 185, Beaver, Single Otter and Twin Otter. We try to use that plane fully coming and going. Float plane cost is also balanced by the fact we only come out to civilization twice a year for resupply so we don't have the expense of a vehicle. (insurance, gas, repairs, maintenance)

If you were here, you'd never know you are 100 miles in the bush. Communications is done via this computer/satellite connection. The internet satellite is now fast enough that we have a real phone on the wall with a real telephone number. This is VOIP. Because we are so remote, plan B is a Iridium satellite phone as back up.

Our solar system/wind turbine is generally enough to power two large chest freezers and a frig/freezer in the kitchen. Generator is backup. We fly a frozen pig and side of beef in every 2 years and do our cutting and wrapping, curing hams and bacons, making sausage and smoking. I'm not into the wild game but we certainly could if we had to. Right down to making soap from the fat.

[Seniorman]

Ronjnk, thank you for that information. Sounds as if you have planned well and have all the comforts of home. I like moose and Black bear, but am also very fond of beef and pig meat. :yes:

Did you have to fly in all those building materials, tools, appliances, etc.? Or was there a large boat that brought them to your location?

S.M.

[ronjnk]

Seniorman,
Everything you see on the website was flown in. Plane load after plane load. Mostly done in the winter when a snowmobile could be used to lug stuff up hill to the building site.

Yeah, I'm definitely partial to beef and pork. Greek ribs were on the menu tonight. A polite burp now. :)

[Seniorman]

Seniorman,
Everything you see on the website was flown in. Plane load after plane load. Mostly done in the winter when a snowmobile could be used to lug stuff up hill to the building site.

Yeah, I'm definitely partial to beef and pork. Greek ribs were on the menu tonight. A polite burp now. :)

I'll bet those plane loads of "stuff" put a dent in the old bank account! :laugh: Wouldn't be a place to be if one forgot a box of nails or needed a new hammer. Kinda hard to run down to the local Home Depot or Lowes and resupply, huh?

On a serious note, is it possible to raise chickens in some type of enclosure there? Seems chickens could add some variety to beef/pork menus, plus the eggs they'd lay.

S.M.

[ronjnk]

Seniorman,
No question the bank account was dented flying all this stuff in. This is not the place to forget something. As soon as we know we need an item, it goes on a list. We have to be super organized which for us is not a problem.

Sure we could erect a building and raise chickens etc. More trouble than it's worth though. Building materials need to be flown in. Feed needs to be flown in. Then we will be in combat with marten, mink, fox, wolves and bear.

I suspect the bear that was trying to claw it's way in the bedroom window last summer, and was destroying the greenhouse before I intervened, would have shredded any chicken coup. We were face to face with that bear, separated by a window, and there was nothing we could shout or bang to deter him. Glad the windows held.

A case of eggs plus couple dozen lasts us 6 months with no problems. I didn't mean it to sound like we only have beef and pork. We have all the variety we want out here. Chicken, turkey, beef, pork. Whatever we care to fly in, is what we have available to us. Between the 2 chest freezers, frig/freezer in the kitchen and the 100's of jars of canned produce my wife cans, we have no wants. Staples are flown in here in bulk. What fruit we don't grow or pick locally is flown in. We have a good routine and set up.

[WalkingTree]

ronjnk -

One of the things that I'd be most curious about learning from your experience looks to be mostly answered already. But I want to put this in here anyway for whatever additional comments you may offer.

Your energy (electricity) generation and usage: It seems that much of the enormous work and money in your design was to live just about as "modern" as you can though in the middle of the bush and OTG. As I understand it you do everything with solar, wind, and diesel generation (aside from woodstove operation). Also, how you use the electricity is pretty much with modern appliances.

Some approaches involve doing some things by other means instead of electricity, to reduce how much electricity is needed in the first place, which can also sometimes reduce certain future maintenance issues. I'm curious as to if you do anything along these lines (aside from super insulation), or if in the beginning considered anything like this. Additionally, is everything as simple and straightforward as generating with wind/solar/diesel and saving in batteries with all of the related electrical technicalities, or are there any further "complications" or did you incorporate any other aspects into how things operate?

[ronjnk]

Walking Tree... Thanks for stopping in and asking questions. You are absolutely right that we have put an enormous amount of money and effort in to our wilderness homestead. But keep in mind, we paid our dues doing things much more primitive on the Maine homestead. The outhouse, hand pump out front for water, kerosene lanterns for light and then a single panel and car battery for an electrical system. Washboard and plunger in a tub for wash. No real refrigeration until we graduated to a tiny RV propane frig. I wouldn't have changed a thing in my life to that regard. It was a tremendous learning experience. I cover all of that in my book. I've excerpted and pasted a few paragraphs below:
"We are sort of homesteading out here. We still do many things the old-fashioned way, and we do provide for much of our needs. Even when there are chores we don’t "do" the old fashioned way, we have practical experience and knowledge of how to do them that way if we had to. Except for the rare times when we need to utilize the generator, we are completely self-sufficient for our power. We provide our own fuel for heating and cooking. Our monthly bills are minimal. We grow our own vegetables and a lot of our fruit. We use a blend of the old-fashioned techniques along with the newer bells and whistles of modern society. In a sense, we have picked and chosen what amenities we will
take advantage of to make our quality of life better."

"As is true of most things in life, we have learned from past experiences. We have adapted well to life in the wilderness, and we’ve struck a balance between remoteness and civilization. To step outside gives me the sense we are the only two remaining humans on the planet, and yet with a flick of a switch, the computer or
television instantly connects us to the rest of humankind. The portable radio we employed initially has been replaced by voice over Internet (VOIP), and we have a real phone on the wall that uses satellite technology. As backup, we also have a true satellite phone. It’s imperative we have backups and plan Bs in the event our primary systems fail.

We've improved and refined our quality of life immensely from those early days in Maine. Although our bush existence isn’t what I would deem "homesteading" in the truest sense, we still live our lives with a pioneering spirit and a determination to "sort of homestead," a lifestyle that gives us a great deal of freedom and satisfaction. We’ve paid our dues with the hard work, and it’s nice to settle into a more leisurely existence."

Sorry to be lazy and cut and paste from the book but I think it succinctly answers the gist of your questions. As far as solar/wind/diesel... simple is in the eye of the beholder. I'm a technical kind of guy so yes, I designed our system and it is simple from the point of view, we have a storage medium (batteries), a source to charge them (solar, wind, generator) and a way to step in between those 2 to control the rate of charge. Of course there is some thinking involved in sizing the components but that is pretty basic too. I hope that answers your question.
Ron

[hunter63]

So the homestead for sale?......
That what your link in your signature implies.

[WalkingTree]

Thanks ronjnk.

I was wondering about some specifics. For example, other than what's standard in some setups already, do you do any heat exchanging when cooling and heating the internal spaces? Do you channel the heat from your woodstove at all and in what ways? Do you have anything underground for pre- heating and cooling air or water? Do you illuminate the indoors only with light bulbs, other than a little sun coming into a window here or there? Do you use the sun for any kind of heating directly versus what it does to a solar panel? How conventional or unconventional might your grey and black water/waste solution be?

[ronjnk]

Hunter63 yes.

[ronjnk]

WalkingTree... We do nothing with heat exchangers. We do nothing to channel heat. We don't need to. The secret is in the construction of the house. The 3 biggest factors are the way it is insulated and vapor wrapped. And lower ceilings than standard. The house is tight as a drum. Doesn't matter how cold it is (we've hit -57F) or windy, the house temperature is consistent throughout without drafts.

As far as preheating water... not really. The water coming into the house right now is close to freezing. There is a pressure tank in the root cellar that may take it up a few degrees before it is run through the stove. The cook stove heats our water so that we have hot/cold running water like any house. Just different way of heating. We get more bang out of every log we cook with.

All lighting is compact florescent. Large south facing picture windows bring in a lot of light as well as passive solar heat.

Grey water is somewhat conventional. Sinks and shower are all plumbed out to a leach field consisting of 3 laterals. Before any grey water goes out, it is filtered to catch the bigger stuff. 16 years and going strong. No black water here. Urine diverting toilet seat with solids going to a tub which when full is taken out to be composted. Maybe once every 3 months. All good questions. Thanks.

[WalkingTree]

Thanks ronjnk. That's the kind of thing I was generally curious about. I guess that your primary focus was the brute force of a steel castle insulated like it was in the Antarctic. Nothing wrong with that. To get all of that in there and set up, it seems that you'd have to have been a multi millionaire.

Being vapor wrapped, I'm assuming you have to do some dehumidifying?

Would you say that during your several years there, maintenance on the solar setup is minimal? That's it's generally reliable? Any extra pain-in-the-arse issues with the environment?

[ronjnk]

WalkingTree... Multi millionaire? Gee you give us way too much credit. How much easier it would have been for us to be a single millionaire, shazam even a half millionaire would have been awesome. Alas, we pinched pennies all our life, lived and still live frugally and had no kids. It does not take a lot of money to live the way we do. I suspect far less than the average person out there.

No dehumidifying. Likely the wood heat helps a lot to keep us on an even keel with humidity plus we live in a relatively dry environment. We also have ventilation tubes through the walls upstairs and downstairs that we can control how much outside air enters the house.

We've been here for 17 years. Solar has been 100% reliable. As long as the panels have no snow cover, they are ultra reliable.

[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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