Bow-Drill Q + Some News

[payne]

Hi there,

It's been a while. You might or might not remember the young utopian-survivalist I was when I joined the forum. I had attempted to organize a 20 days survival-trip with one of the members of the forum, but he abandoned the project, and doing this alone with nearly no experience was out of question so I abandoned. Later on my one-year-trip (which I haven't even done at 50% yet), I met a girl just as interested as me into survival, and we planned a week-trip in BC (Canada). Unfortunately, she has had some family, financial, and school problems and had to abandon as well. Even later, I met a couple on Vancouver Island while I was hitch-hiking. They hosted me for 2 weeks, and it turned out the husband was interested into a small week-end of survival. Finally, it worked out! 2 days still isn't enough for me to brag about and I didn't have enough time to even try more than 5% of the knowledge I've acquired while reading through survival guides... which is the reason why I still want to do a 20-days trip (and eventually, a 100-days!). If anyone is interested, please just PM me. =)
The 2-days basically turned out into experiencing the exploding river-rocks in fires, harvesting berries, catching fishes in a random creek with fishing rods (I was done with my primitive fishing rod only when the trip ended so I couldn't even try to use it... however, I was using fishing thread), starting a fire with a flint, and cooking fishes on a heated rock. We tried to spend some times setting traps, but couldn't find any suitable spot. Also, no shelter was built: one night close to a fire was good enough.

Anyways, I mostly came here to ask yet another question related to the bow-drill fire method: I have practiced it quite a few times since I've left home (I kind of get a lot of free time since I am travelling alone). I was able to craft multiple different parts, but never succeeded at obtaining an ember. I got to get smoke in under 5 seconds of drilling with some of my ''kits'', but even after drilling for 10 minutes, I would never get an amber. I have seen videos of people getting a fire in under 1 minute of drilling... is it supposed to be that quick or does it highly depend on the wood you are using?
Also, blowing toward your baseboard while drilling helps or not?
And when/how can you know that you have obtained an amber?
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/8375/kit1x.jpg
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/7287/kit2o.jpg

Finally, I have tried to light a fire with some very good tinder, 40 Celsius sun, and a beer can's bottom rubbed with chocolate... and it never worked (and I swear I am extremely patient)... what went wrong?
I've also tried to distill my urine in order to obtain water: I've obtained an extremely small amount of water, and it tasted concentrated-pee. Is that normal?
http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/2889/bottletest.jpg
And a last question: how do we carve bones?

[natertot]

Sorry, you lost me at drinking pee.:boat:

[mouse111111]

Really? He lost me at one-year-survival trip.

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

And you guys thought my toe needed covering.....

[Rick]

Right at dinner time, too. Two words. Arch supports.

[gryffynklm]

payne, good start, keep going with your goals.

the pee thing...........

Well?????

I you wish to DILUTE a liquid, you add something to it like water to reduce its concentration.

Do you mean distill?? using heat to create a vapor which condenses on a cool surface and collects in another container??

I do not have experience with distillation beyond drinking Balvenie 16yr double cask scotch. sorry I can't help

[payne]

Oops, yes, I meant distill. XD

[Rick]

Wait a minute. You? You're the guy that distills Balvenie? I bow to you, sir.

[DOGMAN]

Hi Payne,
Glad to see your getting after it, and really trying to learn this stuff! About the bow drill- if your getting smoke after just a few seconds your on the right track....you probably just need to tweak some details and you'll get it.

Some issues might be- your not applying enough pressure on the handhold....or perhaps your pushing down too much. Possibly your fireboard isn't fully dried wood- it may have a little moisture in it. What color is the coal dust your creating? What is its consistency (powdery or clumpy)

[your_comforting_company]

Just for kicks, I made bowdrill fire last week while it was raining. In about 30 seconds I had smoke and in less than a minute I had an ember. So the short answer is, yes, it really is that fast. It is something I practice often.
IMO, the woods you use for your items makes all the difference. Red cedar is difficult to get an ember with, as is dog fennell, but yucca and black willow will yield me an ember in minutes. You want moderately soft woods, with a high silica content.. i.e. plants that grow in sandy soils. While nobody has pointed this out to me, I have noticed that horseweed, lettuce, and mullien all work better when harvested from sandy spots, as compared to those that I harvest from the rich black soil in my yard.

The whole thing is very much mechanical, and is based on a relationship between 4 elements: pressure, speed/spin, oxygen, unrestrained chain reactions. A fifth element that I used to think mattered was humidity, but having made friction fire many times in the rain, I no longer think the humidity matters as much as the moisture content of your materials. Finding the right pressure so that you maximize friction while not restricting the spindle is one aspect, blowing on the board has the potential to do the opposite of suffocating the fire. Too much oxygen is just as bad as not enough.. then theres the moisture content of your breath, and the carbon dioxide... That said, I do blow on the hearthboard very gently as I work, with pursed lips directing the air flow from far away.

The particle size of the powder created by the work also makes a difference. The dust should be very fine in order to maximize the chain reaction (propagation of the ember). I wish I were able to take you by the hand and really sit down with you and show you, so if your survival trips ever bring you to south GA look me up. I didn't count how many times I failed to get an ember when I started learning friction fire, but I guarantee it was more than a few. Now it is simply muscle memory and I can do it without really even thinking about it... BUT I have learned a lot about plants and such since then also..

Good luck to you. Don't give up!

[gryffynklm]

Rick, I'm not a distiller but I fantasize about being one when I have a good scotch.

[Rick]

Liquor porn. I understand.

YCC - Perhaps it's the moisture content. The sandy soil would allow better drainage so the plant, on theory, would be drier than one in a rich loam where moisture would be held more closely to the surface and the plant roots could easily reach it. Just a thought.

[crashdive123]

Glad you found out about exploding rocks without getting injured. As you now know, rocks that contain moisture - moisture rapidly heated expands - rock turns to shrapnel. As far as smoke, but no ember - you're on the right path. It could be either technique or material choices.

As far as blowing on the end of your spindle while you are bowing - I would not. Think about what you are doing and the "science" behind it. You are creating dust that is heated. As that dust collects - if hot enough - will form into a coal. By blowing on it you may disperse the dust so that it never collects.

Not sure what you mean by "bowing toward your baseboard". If you mean bowing at an angle - then no - your bow strokes should be parallel to your hearth board.

As far as knowing when you have an ember - your smoke and your dust will change color. That's not always going to tell you for sure so it's a matter of trials (as you are doing) and observations.

Making a parabolic reflector from a beer can by polishing with chocolate, while cool to watch on TV and videos, is not easy to do. You may have to polish with chocolate (makeshift polishing compound) for hours before your reflector is efficient enough to work.

You are not distilling urine correctly if it tastes like urine when you are through.

To carve bones - if you are asking how to shape them into tools - think more of sanding than carving. By rubbing against a rock you will "sand off" portions to bring it to a point or to make a fish hook.

[letslearntogether47]

I would say it takes me about 3-4 minutes of drilling,but,it seems like a lot longer.lol
After making sure I was using the correct wood the first time.And making sure I kept my positioning correct was rope or string slipping.
For me it only takes a few slips while bowing and even trying to recover by tightening the string between my index and thumb could still mean failure.
Also if that bearing block is causing too much friction you wont be able to spin the spindle fast enough with down pressure and the rope will slip.
This is why if I ever had to use a shoe string or 550 paracord I would go with the Egyptian method.Mutiple wraps on the spindle definitely help.
This fire method is definitely a lesson in mechanics.

[kyratshooter]

He keeps coming back like a bad Payney.

[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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