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Rick
09-16-2011, 06:14 PM
This question is for our combat vets. I would think that combat would have to be the be all, end all of SHTF situations. I can't imagine how it could get worse than that. I know many of you were on LRRPs so living day to day in a SHTF situation was sort of your status quo.

Beyond your weapon and things that go boom, I would be interested to know what you considered your most important tool(s) that you carried. C4, grenades, clamors, etc. are strictly combat related. I'm interested in what applications can transfer to the civilian life. If we knew what tools you used or relied on all the time then perhaps there are some lessons there for the rest of us.
COWBOYSURVIVAL
09-16-2011, 06:28 PM
Great Post Rick, I cannot answer as I didn't serve. But, to your point a great excersize in survival could be learned from the response!
Pal334
09-16-2011, 07:38 PM
Always have a leatherman type tool (I actually always had an actual leatherman). It seems to be able to everything (well, not so sure about brain surgery). Also a good pocket knife of your own choosing, I have had the same Barlow or one predecessor since before 1972. I am sure there are other choices, but with these two, always felt "comfortable".
Rick
09-16-2011, 07:44 PM
Thank you. That's precisely why I asked the question. A multi-tool is the last thing I expected to see. I've never carried one because I've found them pretty darned heavy and I've never been faced with something I couldn't do with what I had on me. Now I have to reconsider the mult-tool. I see the advantage of all the tools, it's just so danged heavy.
woodsman86
09-16-2011, 08:13 PM
Well as far as things that kinda go boom, I would say my non-thethal ammo for my M203. People know we can't just shoot and kill anybody, but non-lethal is indiscriminate (i.e. go on young man, I dare you to throw rocks while we drive by :) ) I have been shot with the 12ga bean bags, so I could only imagine what a 40mm bean bag feels like. I only got bored enough to find out about the 12ga, never the M203.

One tool I have discussed before was my Cold Steel SRK, but I actually I carried three knives all with their own purpose. The Cold Steel was a great utility knife that I knew no matter what I did with it I didn't have to worry about failure. I would use it to pry things, punctor heavy tires (disabling vehicles caught driving in restricted areas of our sector), break glass, intimidation, and any other abusive activity. I had a Benchmade automatic, that I kept a sharp edge on. It was used for anything I needed to slice such checking seats, opening sacks, or any other item that could be used to conceal a cache and also to open my MREs. Then my 3rd knife, was a MC-1 Paratrooper's switchblade. Though I carried a Gerber multi-tool, sometimes we would have large groups of wires to cut and the curved blade worked great for slicing right through. We could get the knife replaced by supply, so it was also handy for any questionable tasks that might result in loss or destruction.

Another tool would have to be my spoon. People here do not eat with silverware as we do in the USA. Their food is actually quite good if you don't watch how they prepare it or what animal is being butchered that day. I always carried a spoon in the straps on my vest next to my grenades, lol. When we first got to country we learned quick that a lot people here want to feed us and that it was better than T-rats or MREs. So when the SHTF, I would want to have my spoon. It was at that point that I understood why we only ate with spoons in basic training, it taught us anything can be eaten with a spoon and it really was a good lesson.
kyratshooter
09-16-2011, 09:54 PM
A 4 blade military issue knife was handy. No multitools back then. 4 blade knife in the pocket, Air force pilots knife on the pants belt, combat knife on the pistol belt. That way you always had a blade no matter what happened.

P38 was also used daily. Closely followed buy the canteen cup.

The poncho and liner were your home and comfort, roof and bed.

There were other things the soldier of today would never think about, like the mini-hobo stove you made from a C-rat can. You opened the can of peanut butter, lit it (you only ate the peanut butter if you had the trots), and put it under the stove to boil coffee water in an empty fruit cotail can, then warm your scrambled eggs and ham while you made the coffee.

Waking up in the fog to the smell of c-4 burning to warm up a breakfast of ham and FMs.

Stolen chicken baked in a dutch oven made from an ammo can.

Packs of koolaid to kill the taste of the purification tabs and Hartz Moutain worm pills to kill the worms, sent from home in letters.

The green Timex with nylon band that glowed so bright you could read a map by it.

The compass, your life depended on that compass. Without it You couldn't do recon, couldn't call firemissions, couldn't plot fires, couldn't find your food cache, and most important, you could not find your pickup point.

I'll bet I wake up in the middle of the night wondering where I am!

When I hear people talking about bugging out and living in the wilderness I think of those weeks on end when I lived what they are dreaming. It came close to killing all of us, and we were young then. I am not talking about the combat, I am talking about the lifestyle. No comfort, no rest, eternal filth, constant threat of death, being seen was death, being smelled was death, even being suspected might be death.

Always keep in mind that the Government detirmined after WW1 that no one could stay in a combat role for more then 8 months without going insane. They have held that line since that time. WW2 units were relieved for R&R on rotation. Viet Namn was 6 months combat and 6 months in "secure area" even though you were in country for a year. Combat rotations in Iraq have been held to 8 months with support units doing the longer tours.

That means that 8 months after SHTF you can be assured that anyone with a BOB roaming the woods is certifiable. That is not my opinion, it is the doctrine of the US military.
natertot
09-16-2011, 10:25 PM
I was in the Navy, so my expierence is very different from the soldiers on here. My ship had the worse osmosis system ever, so potable water at times was very limited. I always had five gallons of water locked up in a locker. So I could limit water waste on hygiene, I also stored baby wipes to clean up with.

In regards to civilian application, you must consider what is needed to survive. Here is a list of my priorities, starting with the most important.
1) Clear of immediate danger. Have an escape route and a way to travel it (ie foot, car, boat, plane etc)
2) Medical. If you are sick or injured, you must have treatment or you will meet your demise no matter what else happens. You don't have to be 100%, but you need to be able to continue on through the situation.
3) Water. Without it, you are toast in 1-2 days.
4) Fire. Helps ward of predators, gets you dry, gets you warm and cooks food.
5) Food. Same as water, just not as fast.
6) Shelter. It can keep you warm, dry, and protected from the elemants. This can slow the deteriation of your overall physical condition.

Of course, the order can change depending on the situation. If there is no immediate danger and no injuries, but it is 45 degrees out and you are soaking wet, you will then go straight to fire and then back up to water to avoid hypothermia. But my order is what I believe is the typical order that you want to follow in most situations. If you have the tools to meet these needs, then they are the most important tools. JMHO. Although I also learned that the guy next to you can be a very valuable tool as well. Hope this gives you some thought.
wholsomback
09-16-2011, 10:33 PM
NEVER,NEVER go anywhere without your knife!!!!!!!!Combat or otherwise your knife can and will save your life.Take it from a Marine your knife beyond all tools is a must have and if you don't have one learn to make one.
woodsman86
09-17-2011, 01:01 AM
I would say my canteen cup is more important when I am camping than it was while I was deployed. The only time I used a canteen cup for military purposes is to drink grog or shave in the field. With MRE heaters and camelbaks, the canteen cup isn't needed. Now when I am camping and such, I use it a lot for drinking and eating. It is definitely a tool worth having.

Now what about a wooby, also known as the poncho liner. That would be another item I have taken with me everywhere. It is warm and dries out very quick. Just be careful around space heaters and such as it will melt easily.
kyratshooter
09-17-2011, 09:51 AM
I would say my canteen cup is more important when I am camping than it was while I was deployed. The only time I used a canteen cup for military purposes is to drink grog or shave in the field. With MRE heaters and camelbaks, the canteen cup isn't needed. Now when I am camping and such, I use it a lot for drinking and eating. It is definitely a tool worth having.

Now what about a wooby, also known as the poncho liner. That would be another item I have taken with me everywhere. It is warm and dries out very quick. Just be careful around space heaters and such as it will melt easily.

Seems I just mentioned that todays soldiers do not know some of our old tricks and needs, like the canteen cup. You guys are also just gross, you never shave in your canteen cup! You drink out of your canteen cup, you shave out of you helmet!

And did I not mention the poncho liner as being home and comfort? And you new guys have feminized the name. When I was in it was a "Woogie".

We must still be in the "repeat after me" phase of training.
Beans
09-17-2011, 12:13 PM
When I was much younger the "tool" I thought was the most important was replaced with my Ka-bar.

I made the C-rat stove, made wood shaving to start a fire, opened cans of food, built a lean to. ETC. I brought the use of the knife from my very early youth, growing up on a farm, into my USMC days then back into my Civilian days.

Everyone carried a pocket knife, even to school, when I was younger. We sharpened pencils. clean fish and game, played Mumblety peg. I replaced the pocket knife with the Ka-bar while I was in the USMC, more useful for what I was doing, but now have supplemented it with a pocket knife in my Cilivian life, while in the field.

The pocket knife has once again become my EDC tool with a leatherman stashed in my EDV, BOB and BOV.

FWIW The leatherman came on the scene in 1984, well beyound my USMC service. We had the Swiss Army knives back then but they were not used much, they were looked at as novelty item as opposed to being a "tool"
crashdive123
09-17-2011, 04:43 PM
When I was in it was a "Woogie".



Now what about a wooby, also known as the poncho liner.

Krat - some Supply Sergeant had a terrible lisp. Nobody had the heart to correct him. It stuck.
woodsman86
09-17-2011, 08:44 PM
LOL, I don't think a kevlar helmet would be much good for shaving and soggy helmet pads would be a real nuisance. I have seen a lot of things I was taught be lost with newer Soldiers. They don't even teach them land nav in basic anymore, everyone relies on technology. So I could see your frustration, but with changing times and equipment comes new tricks.
finallyME
09-22-2011, 02:29 PM
I drove a truck and was never in combat. Nobody shot at me. So, basically, I am not a combat vet. But I will say a few words. I wouldn't count them as gospel though.

I always had a multitool and my SRK. I only used the SRK to chop up ice blocks in the cooler. I bought it for stabbing. My victorianox multitool isn't ment to stab. I didn't want to be taken captive because I didn't have a means to defend myself (ie, run out of ammo). Luckily I didn't have to find out if my thinking was sound or not. I was probably misguided, but it gave me a little comfort. The multitool was used the most, mostly on truck maintenance tasks. I carried some EMT shears for opening MREs and they came in handy for a lot of other tasks.

I also always had gloves on, tight fitting. In the winter, they keep your hands warm (well not if it is real cold, more like mild cold). In the summer, they kept me from burning my hands. Military trucks are all metal, and the desert heat makes them really hot. Also, if you have to lay in the dirt, you don't get stabbed by plants or rocks, and you can more easily hold the hot rifle.

Also, in the desert, sunglasses are a must.

I always had baby wipes, and used them for the dirty business. You can't walk too far when you get a rash in the wrong spot, and when you are sweating, and moving around a lot, and not taking a shower all the time, one area needs special care to keep you moving and thinking on other tasks.
Woodmaster750
09-22-2011, 03:00 PM
In the field I carried my K-Bar and I had got a hold of a com tool set with a two blade pocket knife and a pair of wire pliers in leather belt case. Might call it the first leatherman.
CuriousBear
09-22-2011, 05:27 PM
A good folding knife, a good belt knife, a leatherman/gerber multi tool, and my cammelback and other water cans. I'm a heavy equipment operator so i have to fix things, but fabricating my own parts and non standard everythings needs stuff like that.
woodsman86
09-22-2011, 10:41 PM
Ballistic eye pro and gloves are mandatory now. Anything metal after a few hours in 120+ temperature is going to hurt when you touch it. I would say a good pair of leather gloves is a great survival tool.
Renatus
09-22-2011, 11:45 PM
deleted....
SemperFi
09-23-2011, 09:47 AM
I would say never go anywhere without a knife , it can do so many thing s , and although a leatherman would be outstanding the kbar is all you really need ! Dont get me wrong the canteen cup is a doozy! Its a loaded question which one is best , there are several answers that could be used!
aflineman
09-23-2011, 11:57 AM
Toss-up between my small Buck knife (Similar to the newer Cadet) and my Leatherman Wave. I was not essentially "high speed, low drag", but I was deployed for a number of years out of my career. Another thing that I found really handy (and still do) is my Klein/Wiss splicing scissors. I have used them for everything from opening MREs, splicing, gutting fish, cutting up Grouse/Quail, they are very handy in everyday life.
aflineman
09-23-2011, 11:59 AM
Ballistic eye pro and gloves are mandatory now. Anything metal after a few hours in 120+ temperature is going to hurt when you touch it. I would say a good pair of leather gloves is a great survival tool.
+1 on that. Always carried a set of gloves in a side pocket. Amazing how stuff can heat up in the desert. Just opening a door can be painful.
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