fire arms maintenance when SHTF?

[huskymill]

Hey guys so I just got my first gun at the beginning of the summer (old Mossberg .22 that I inherited from my grandfather, you can see it on an earlier post I made), so as I was cleaning it a few days ago a thought occurred to me. If shtf what happens when I run out of Hoppes 9? So I thought I’d bring this to you guys. What can be used to keep you firearms in business for years after society has collapsed? Just a hypothetical question.

[Pal334]

Almost any oil based lubricant can work in a pinch. Just use it sparingly. If you have a real fouling, kerosene, or gasoline could be used , followed by the above lubricant. This is just a quick down and dirty, I am sure others will get more detailed

[crashdive123]

There's going to be a societal collapse? Why am I always the last to hear about these things?

[Rick]

Well......it was a SECRET until Pal piped up. Thank you, Pal. Now everyone will want to be in it.

Husky - I would imagine this has been time tested over and over. Our black powder boys should be able to tell us. I'm sure those that fought during the Civil War used all sorts of things to clean their weapons. I have to wonder if lye from wood ash would clean a bore?

Just as important, if not more so, would be critical spare parts like extractor springs, firing pin, etc. KY should be able to give us a list of spare parts that should be stocked.

[Winter]

Actually Crash, it was last week, Try to keep up.

Any oil is better then none for lube in temperate climates. No lube works in arctic regions. (firearm depending)

Your bore brush will remove most fouling on it's own but solvents speed up the process a great deal.

[huskymill]

I hadn't thought about spare parts but that is a good point. Also I was thinking pretty much every household in america has a can of wd40. That would work right? And honestly I really don't know a whole lot about this stuff. I've been cleaning my gun every time I shoot it and I really only go through like 100 rounds a day. I just know I want to keep it in as good condition as possible.

I thought this might be an interesting topic that hasn't been covered alot yet so hey keep throwing out ideas guys.

[Winter]

I hadn't thought about spare parts but that is a good point. Also I was thinking pretty much every household in america has a can of wd40. That would work right? And honestly I really don't know a whole lot about this stuff. I've been cleaning my gun every time I shoot it and I really only go through like 100 rounds a day. I just know I want to keep it in as good condition as possible.

I thought this might be an interesting topic that hasn't been covered alot yet so hey keep throwing out ideas guys.

It's a worthwhile topic.

Alot of gun cleaning products break down over time. This breakdown is sped up by temperature extremes.

If CLP freezes, it gets milky. WD40 has a shelf life. Nitro solvent will evaporate from a sealed container.

Nothing lasts forever.Avoid, for preps, anything that needs shaken.

The good side is that grease can be heated, separated, and strained till you end up with a quality oil.

In my AR's, I use a boresnake and 3-in-1 oil mostly. That's what I stock. 3-in-1 is pretty stable comparatively to other common oils.

[Old GI]

"Nitro solvent will evaporate from a sealed container." So it wasn't just my imagination!

[whitis]

I know a few things about oils not specifically related to firearms (mostly machining) that still may be somewhat relevant. Plus I searched to see what folks had to say about some of the candidates.

Someone posted on a machining forum a summary by someone who sat through a lubrication class with a hangover but gave a nice recap when challenged:
"Any oil is better than No oil, clean oil is better than dirty oil, the right oil is better than the wrong oil, the best job is done by the right oil applied at the right place , in the right quantity ,at the right time."
Note, however, that the wrong oil can potentially cause a lot of trouble.

WD-40 contains more solvent than oil. It is reported to be short lived as a lubricant (and sometimes as a ust protector) and in the long term could leave you with less lubrication and protection than when you started. Can help clean and de-gunk. May work ok if you lubricate frequently and don't use the gun very often. Has been reported to adversely affect gun bluing with long term use. Did do well in some short term rust tests. Field and stream reports that in combination with burnt powder it has a tendency to cause jams and is very hard to clean off:
http://books.google.com/books?id=572F69alwGYC&pg=PA25
Note that that link mentions Rem Oil contains teflon; teflon when exposed to high temperatures (such as those encountered in the barrel of a gun) gives off nerve gas.

Cutting oils with sulfur, chlorine, etc. as an extreme pressure additive can cause flash rusting. Many are also water soluble.

Drying oils (such as linseed/flax oil) oxidize to leave a hard gunky coating. Boiled linseed oil is the drying agent in some paints and also used as a wood preservative. Traditionally used on wood gun stocks. Other vegetable oils also likely to gunk up, burn, etc. Flax oil did beat Rem Oil,Outers Gun Oil, and pharmacy mineral oil and a couple others on a corrosion prone sword steel in a salt water bath. Rags soaked with drying oils get hot and if discarded/stored together or insulated can start fires. Linseed oil has been traditionally used on the outside of gun barrel; however, some avoid putting it on the part of the stock which contacts the barrel. Probably not good inside or on moving parts.
http://cbd.atspace.com/articles/rustprotection3/rust_protection3.html
olive oil is a non-drying oil and there have been some reports of using on guns. Was suggested that needs to be wiped off a bit so cartridge will stick to barrel. http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?action=printpage;topic=7732.0 An ad for a book said the answer to the question of whether the italians used olive oil on their guns was yes. Of course, they did lose. :)

Detergent oils (including many motor oils) absorb water rather than repelling it. This might be an advantage iif you needed to lift water off wet un-oiled metal but is a disadvantage if you want a protective barrier against water and don't want the oil to wash off. May have rust inhibiting quality even with some dissolved water. Motor oils do withstand high temperatures and combustion.

Some report using Mobil 1 (full) synthetic motor oil, with or without additional ingredients. Here is one poster who claims it works better than gun oils but maybe not as good at corrosion protection.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=271x1301

Motor oils and some other oils may contain chemicals which aren't very good for the person handling the gun.

Here is what a chem prof who formulates motor oils says about why using motor oil as a gun oil isn't such a good idea:
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4245645&postcount=80

Ballistol will form an emulsion with water, however 1 part balistol to 20 parts water has a pH of 9 so should still inhibit rust but could wash away.
Pretty low toxicity. May not eliminate copper.

Some oils have rust inhibiting additives. One technique is to raise the pH to about 9. Balistol, for example, has a pH of 9+/-0.5.

A pure silicone oil without petroleum additives won''t hurt the condom used to protect the end of the barrel like a petro lube would. Don't use silicone on or near anything you ever want to paint. Can also be used to "clean" your other weapon.

Oils containing paraffin (in the american sense, i.e. paraffin wax) are reported to have caused jamming. But some gun oils reportedly intentionally use paraffin wax. Good for protection in a corrosive environment, bad for a dusty environment.

Some gun oils contain ingredients to aid in removal of copper residue. Somewhat concentrated ammonia is one. But it attacks bronze cleaning rods/brushes (while steel ones wear the gun barrel).

cosmolene is used for long term machinery storage but needs to be cleaned and re-lubed before use..

MIL-PRF-63460E military spec for CLP gun oil http://www.g96.com/MIL-PRF-63460E_AMENDMENT-2.pdf
Does not permit graphite or powdered metals.

For long term storage (not use), some tests in a salt water environment showed plain old vaseline worked very well at protecting metal against rust. http://macgregorsailors.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=11169 It attracts dust, though, may not be good at high temperatures, and is to thick for moving parts.

Boeshield T-9 is parrafin wax/solvent based. Here is what the manufacturer and others have to say about use on guns:
http://boeshield.com/gun-retailers/using-boeshield-t-9-to-protect-guns/
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-381039.html
Be careful of paraffin build up in barrel or tight clearance moving parts. Very good for storage. Some do use for active guns.

Saw some favorable mentions of eezox. Some claim very good corrosion resistance without thick buildup. Trichloroethane fumes, though. List of glove typesto use does not include most common types. Doesn't collect dust much. One test reported gummy at low temps and gave it only fair marks as a rust preventative.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=582482&postcount=24

There are some reports that ATF was originally sperm oil and modern ATF is a sperm oil substitute. Sperm oil is illegal.
Sperm oil is reported to have worked very well. Jojoba oil is supposed to be similar.
http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=62649

Carnauba and beeswax are used on stocks and barrel exteriors.

A homebrew gun oil recipes:
http://home.comcast.net/~dsmjd/tux/dsmjd/tech/eds_red.htm (Ed's Red, ATF based)
http://www.frfrogspad.com/homemade.htm
http://huntingfirearms.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=cooking&thread=2798&page=1 (bear oil)
Note that animal oils and cuts on your hand can lead to infection.

Paste wax has been used on the outside of gun barrels. You could probably also rub down with a candle though paraffin will flow into pores better if thinned with a quick evaporating solvent. Your stove fuel may work as a solvent, though gasoline can be very dangerous (explosive vapors) to use as a solvent. If a solvent which evaporates is used, you will get a harder coating (but it may be somewhat porous). Mineral oil (pharmacy) thins wax well (they are similar chemically) and wouldn't evaporate much.

This mentions pine oil for gun cleaning (but notlubricating):
https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/ccm-columns/its-your-weapon-maintain-it/

Century old cleaning and oiling instructions.
http://firearmshistory.blogspot.com/2011/08/cleaning-firearms-historical.html
http://www.shootersforum.com/general-discussion/5985-how-did-folks-keep-guns-rust-1800s.html#post33515


Some protective finishes/conversion coatings such as black oxide, bluing, and Parkerizing get much or nearly all of their rust inhibiting ability from creating a textured surface to retain oil.

Here are pictures of pieces of un-blued steel exposed to the environment for a few days after treating with 11 different products:
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=12616/GunTechdetail/Gun_Cleaning_Clinic__Knowing_the_Limits_of_Rust_Pr eventatives
This site is the manufacturer of some of the products shown, which didn't perform all that well other than their brand of cosmolene. the untreated steel was very badly rusted.

A series of 4 separate salt water immersion (5 hour/2 weeks) rust tests on sword steel
* Standard light weight oil, Break Free CLP (tm), Windlass Rustblocker (tm), Carnuba Wax ("car wax")
* Metal Glo (tm) , natural Olive Oil, WD-40 (tm), Vaseline (tm) brand petroleum jelly
* Flax Oil, Remington Rem Oil (tm) with Teflon, Outers 445 (tm), Mineral Oil
* Food Grade Silicone, Renaissance Wax (tm), 3-in-1 Oil, Rain-X (tm), 5W30 Motor Oil
http://cbd.atspace.com/articles.html
Winners of the individual tests were: WD-40, Flax Oil, Breakfree, Food Grade Silicone, Renaissance Wax
Note that the flax oil wasn't boiled, baked, or allowed to dry/oxidize for an extended period before the test started.

Firearms may be exposed to extreme heat and cold, dust, water, acid rain, humidity, sweat, sunlight, wind, wind driven sand, and salt spray. Inside the barrel is a particularly harsh environment and other ares may get fairly hot as well. Oils that aren't designed for this application may require more frequent cleaning, burn away, gum up, stick when cold, run off when hot, clog the barrel, etc. There are also trade-offs between cleaning, lubricating, and protecting.

[kyratshooter]

What to do in emergencies?

Almost completely covered here. Any lube is better than no lube. The problems with additives in oil hurting you is from continued exposure like folks rebuilding engines and working in oil change centers and staying saturated for days on end. A bit of 5-w20 is not going to hurt you if you use it to clean/lube your guns.

When I was in the army we kept a can of 30wt beside every M2 and poured it straight down the receiver when they got sticky from firing them all day. We did m60s the same. LSA would not hold up.

Never fear. If all the techno survivalists are right we will have a continuious supply of gas and oil in the cars sitting on the highways after the EMP strike. 5 quarts of 5-40 and 10 gallons of gas will clean anything you have for the next 10 years.

Back in the day, before the petrolium based lubes were available and folks kept the smokepoles loaded 24/7 they used what they had. Goose grease, skunk oil, hog lard. Some animals render very thin oil that does not go solid when it cools. Bear oil was the normal gun lube. You talk about something that stinks!

No one has yet discovered a lube better than the oil from a sperm whale. We are still searching for something that good for industrial use and have not found it yet. No you can't get it here, but you can in other parts of the world. You beach combers might find a dead one on the beach and make your apocolipse fortune in one boil down.

The other option? Don't clean as much as you normally do and stick to very durable weapons. Remington Nylon 66 is one example. You can go 10,000-20,000 rounds and never worry about cleaning, just pour a drop of hot earwax in there now and then. 10-22 is in the same catagory. The AK would be next and about any of the pump shotguns that you can shake and dump the gravel out the bottom. Any firearm used in ww2 from jungle to north pole would be about right.

I remember once issuing orders that my platoon could only break down half the m16s at a time for cleaning. They would break them down every chance they got to clean them so they would not jam. There is nothing like looking out the back window of a duce and 1/2 and realizing every m16 in the unit is disabled and being cleaned and you are running security cover in a hot zone. Procurement officers and GIs are really not very smart.

The reply to m16 durability is always "if you keep it clean!". Well what if you are in a situation where you can not keep it clean by our western standards? Every prepper thinks they are going to crank up their generator and live like they do now through any struggle. If you are forced to clean the gun constantly to keep it cranking you need another gun.

Spare parts?

Find out what Numrich Arms is out of for your particular unit. That will be the part you will need immidiately. I try to stick to guns that Numrich still has everything in stock but the grip screws, not because they have plenty of parts, but because you will not need any of them. It is like looking at the consumer guide used car reviews. You don't want the chevy with the short life radiator, electrical system and transmission. You want the Honda that has a million units on the road for 15 years all of them have 250,000 miles and none have needed a major repair yet.

Remember that the Mossburg, Springfield, Glenfield, Savage and Marlin 22 rifles were the cheap starter guns of their era. They were not expected or anticipated to last for 100 years. Hang them on the wall and buy a CZ, 10-22, Remington.

Some would recomend the Marlin 60, but I can tell you exactly what parts are going to fail in a 60. That makes it an excellent plinker gun for family outtings but not a survival gun. That and I can count on one hand the number of people I know that can break a Marlin 60 trigger group down and put it back together without kicking the dog and pi$$ing off the wife.

Do not buy spare parts. Buy duplicate guns. Two is not one, two is three. Shoot one til it breaks, then shoot the other one till it breaks, then canabilize the parts and shoot the repaired one till it breaks. If it is a good gun your grandson will do the last reapair and your great grandkids will still be shooting it. Probably lubing it with cat oil on the way to Alcatraz.

The one "spare part" everyone should own is a spring kit from Brownells. They have a ziplock bag of assorted coil springs that will cover almost every need a person will have for general repairs. It may not be the exact spring, but it will work. Using this kit you can put back into action a lot of guns that would be worthless door stops.

And always remember, you will lose more parts while cleaning the gun than you will ever break in use.

[SARKY]

Spare parts, spare parts, spare parts!!! The most common items to fail..... springs(any and all), Firing pin, sights front and rear can be broken if the gun is dropped, same for the trigger
guard.

[Winter]

Wow Whitis. Gonna take a few days to absorb all that info.

[Rick]

Whitis and KY - I had to give you guys some rep for those posts. Lots of great information there.


Someone posted on a machining forum a summary by someone who sat through a lubrication class with a hangover but gave a nice recap when challenged:

Might be one of the funniest lines I've read in a while. We've all been there at one time or another.

Mr. Rick?
(Groan) Huh? Oh, yeah. Lemme see........

[glockcop]

Farm diesel with a smidgen of house hold ammonia for a powder solvent/cleaner. 30 weight motor oil for everything else that needs lubrication. That aught to hold you over for the rest of eternity.

[glockcop]

Kyratshooter...''The reply to m16 durability is always "if you keep it clean!". Well what if you are in a situation where you can not keep it clean by our western standards?...... If you are forced to clean the gun constantly to keep it cranking you need another gun.''

Not really. I agree that early M16 needed to be cleaned and lubricated more frequently. But not so much for today's rifle, people. Lots of refinements have taken place since the "Matty Matel" was first fielded. Most folks listen to these old tired "tales" and clean their AR's waaaay more often than the weapon actually requires. I'm all about having a squeaky clean weapon but an AR of today's maufacture will go about 3000 rounds of quality ammo before gumming up to the point of giving problems. By my math that is about 150 straight 20 round mags before needing a douching. By anyone's standards, that's alot of shooting folks. Depending on different factors, sometimes alot longer. Our Department S&W AR's have gone through some flat out grueling and abusive durations with little to no care in some of the more intensive SWAT training programs/courses without missing a beat. I've witnessed some terrible abuse from sales reps that would make most gun owners cringe. Today's AR's even withstand the most ham handed police rookies in training (and GI's). That says alot :). Folks, don't discredit the AR's reliability over the ''war stories'' of yesteryear. Today's AR's flat out RUN, PERIOD!

Kyratshooter...''And always remember, you will lose more parts while cleaning the gun than you will ever break in use.''

I absolutely 100% agree.

[Rick]

''And always remember, you will lose more parts while cleaning the gun than you will ever break in use.''

I just finished cleaning my AR after a trip to the range and as I removed the tiny extractor pin and laid it on the work bench I thought, "Don't forget what Uncle KY said". I'm happy to report there were no lost pieces and none left over. That has to count for something.

[BENESSE]

Do you have to clean your gun each time after you shoot?
Since I rent mine at the range, I have no idea what they do with it afterwards and it didn't occur to me to ask.
(If yes, what a drag!)

[kyratshooter]

Do you have to clean your gun each time after you shoot?
Since I rent mine at the range, I have no idea what they do with it afterwards and it didn't occur to me to ask.
(If yes, what a drag!)

They spray them with G96 or WD-40 and wipe them down with a dirty rag.

If you want to know which pistols keep going and going and never need repair talk to the guys that run the range. A 5 minute talk with them is worth 12 hours of "expert opinion" on the internet.

Glock Cop, the parts interchange, its the same gun.

[Rick]

Benesse - I do. Especially my handguns. To me it's sort of like changing the oil in the car every time you drive it but 1) I don't mind doing it because it's a manly task Ar, ar, ar, ar, 2) If I don't let crud build up in them then I don't have a worry about something going wrong because of lack of maintence. 3) it makes it easier to clean them if the goop isn't built up and (drum roll please) 4) I don't want the police report to read "subject shot by intruder. Attempted to fire weapon and it jammed due to poor maintenance."

Or my epitaph to read...

Here lies Rick.
His draw was pretty quick
And his aim was true and purdy.
The only problem quick Rick had
was his favorite weapon was dirty.

[BENESSE]

I can see now how one would need a few "options."

[crashdive123]

B - I clean mine after each use as well.

[BENESSE]

My mom made me do that with the lawnmower...as if mowing the lawn wasn't bad enough.
What do troops do when they have to shoot and be on the move? There are only so many weapons and stuff they can carry.

[Pal334]

Always kept a cleaning kit. One piece of equipment you can't do without. And is amazing how quick you can clean when you are motivated

[Rick]

(Big sigh) Yes, I clean the lawnmower, edger, trimmer and blower each time I mow the yard. I'd had the same lawn mower since 1992 or 93. I used to clean the broom with a brush but then I'd have to clean the brush with the broom and it became a vicious circle.

[hunter63]

Very good advice from all........Remember, anything with a spring has a "sprong factor" when (not if) it gets loose and "it"disappears into another dimension, Forever!!!!
So KRS is absolutely correct.
Also like (and follow) the more than one of each model you shoot is wise....Kinda like having a "Parts car".

Was strongly advised Not to use WD-40 on the new Lancaster flint-er...effects the 'browning" per the builder.... light machine oil, for lube, hot soapy water to "pump out"
If the water is hot enough it evaporates with out rust, till it can be oiled.

Rendered Bear grease is very fowl, but old times swear that if melted and dumped into a muzzle and allow to stay there it will "soak into the metal"....This actually make sense if you consider that old rile and shotgun barrels were wrought iron or Damascus twist, and were hammer welded over a mandrel to form the tube.

Of course there is also the "pi$$ down the barrel", the ammonia in your urine will break up the corrosive powder residue before real cleaning.
(This is common advice) in Nagant circles)

I'm guessing that in a real pinch just boiling it in water would carry away most of the dirt, nose and ear wax, fat from most any animal, could be used to lube parts and components.

[Rick]

Just remove the bayonet from the Mosin BEFORE you pee down the barrel. Just sayin'.

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

Just remove the bayonet from the Mosin BEFORE you pee down the barrel. Just sayin'.
I'll add for the record it takes Remington 3-5 days to acknowledge your order for a trigger! That is in our current state of affairs imagine when SHTF..,...

[glockcop]

Kyratshooter...."Glock Cop, the parts interchange, its the same gun''.

Well, yes and no. Yes most parts do interchange in old vs new AR's but today's steel/aluminium alloys, rifleing profile and twist rates,Wylde chambers, chrome lined barrels/bolt carriers, NP3 internals (on some makes), upgraded mags/followers, and slightly different specs in other areas make it waaaay better than in days of yore. The specs of gas tubes vs barrel length have been tweeked to a point of being a science. Modern propellants also have made leaps and bounds since it's inception which greatly contribute to performance and reliability. So do "most" of the old and new parts interchange? Yes. But it ain't the same weapon first dragged through Viet Nam. To get back to the topic, all you need to keep a modern AR running is an old toothbrush and some 30 weight motor oil. How much more reliable can you get? Not much.

[kyratshooter]

Ms. B,

please be aware that the term "cleaning" means different things to different people. To the average person "cleaning" is wiping down the outside, and running a patch down the bore and wiping off any dirt/oil they see on the visible parts. This can take 5 minutes.

To others it is taking the weapon down to the last part and soaking the entire mess in solivents and then reassembling.

Different guns lend themselves to different procedures. A 1911 can be taken down totally and cleaned thoroughly and reassembled in about 15 minutes and requires no tools for the process. A Ruger .22 pistol will require an hour, enough heavy tools to rebuild a car and may never go back together properly again.

Some guns are recomended by the manufacturer never to be disassembled more than "field stripping" into major components for cleaning. Other guns are intended to be completely taken apart.

The cleaning after every use syndrome is a hangover from the black powder and corossive primer days. Back then if you left the gun dirty overnight it had a layer of rust on it due to the corossive nature of the powder and primers. That is still the case if you use surplus ammo that has corossive primers, such as the soviet block ammo.

When I was in the army some of the ammo for the M1 was still corossive and the regualtions were that you clean the day your fire and for two days after even if you do not shoot the rifle again.

What do you do in a combat situation? You clean when you can. The M1 required high maintainance due to crossive primers. We had a requirement in training that you had to be able to break down an M1 and put if back together in a specific time, BLINDFOLDED. That was partly so you could clean it in the dark if necessary.

With the M16 we would break them in half and pull the bolt, wipe the bolt down with a rag and wipe out the locking lugs in the receiver, squirt some LSA on the bolt and stick it back together every couple of hours if we were on a dusty road, and 3-4 times a day if in the jungle. If you look at many of the pictures of infantry troops in Viet Namn you wil note that almost all of us wore a kerchief around our neck or a strip of towel hanging around our neck. That was a cleaning rag for our rifles, not just a sweat rag.

GC I am sorry it seems that I dispute you in discussing the m16 but I was deprived of all that intense SWAT training and had to make do with 2 years combat on three continents. Part of that experience included writing letters to Moms explaining why they had lost their children. I was not allowed to tell them it was because a worthless rifle jamed in their hands. I am slightly jaded. I will not get over it anytime this side of the grave.

[glockcop]

Kyratshooter..."GC I am sorry it seems that I dispute you in discussing the m16 but I was deprived of all that intense SWAT training and had to make do with 2 years combat on three continents."

Your attempt at sarcastic degradation does not dilute the fact that the modern AR is a fine and reliable weapon. Apparently you missed the classes on ''reading comprehension'' during your two years of ''touring the continents''. Now pay attention....I said that the original incarnation needed frequent attention...I also said the modern versions are MUCH more reliable than it's predecessor. It is unfortunate that your experience with the AR's ancestor left you bitter. This has denied you the adaptability to stay current. My condolences.

[shiftyer1]

Chrome lined barrels, gas tube and bolt made a big difference in the performance of the m16/ar. Was it a good time to test a new design? HELL NO!!!!!!!! Like it or not ar's have been adopted as the go to rifle by the US and several designs are based on it. It is the same gun but they worked pretty hard to make it reliable, tweaking parts don't make a new gun but it can and does make a better gun.

I don't own one so I have to base my opinions on others comments. I've hear lots of first hand BAD experiences like kyrat shared and also have several trusted friends that have really beat on their ar's to see what would happen because dad said their junk. They actually work now.

Although if I punched you in the face everytime I saw you and suddenly changed my ways and didn't do that anymore, would you trust joe blow when he told you i've changed?

I still think ak's have the edge though.

I'll let ya'll 2 to get back to huffin and puffin now. Didn't mean to interrupt.

[Rick]

Let's not degrade into name calling and person attacks. It's not allowed. Each of us can have our own opinion on any subject and we should respect each other enough to accept that we can have different opinions and move on.

[Rick]

KY - I think you make an excellent point of the definition of cleaning. There is indeed a huge difference between what two or three of us might define it as based upon our experience and the weapon we are using. Good post!

[glockcop]

Let's not degrade into name calling and person attacks. It's not allowed. Each of us can have our own opinion on any subject and we should respect each other enough to accept that we can have different opinions and move on.

Rick, I agree. Order should be restored. But in my defense, I did not start the snide comments. I stated the facts of this weapon's current refinements and was given a challenging remark in return. I will not accept left handed blabbery without rebuttal. But now that the ''coach'' has stepped in, I'll graciously bow out and ''let the stew brew''. Bon Appetit.

Back on topic. I have also heard of people using finger nail polish remover (acetone) for removing plastic fouling from shotgun barrels. Don't know first hand, I just heard about it. Keep away from synthetic stocks.

[Rick]

We can challenge and dispute each others comments at any time. However, there is a right way and a wrong way. We can tell someone they are wrong without calling them the village idiot. By the way, final snipes count in the wrong column, too.

[Mad Cow]

Hey guys so I just got my first gun at the beginning of the summer (old Mossberg .22 that I inherited from my grandfather, you can see it on an earlier post I made), so as I was cleaning it a few days ago a thought occurred to me. If shtf what happens when I run out of Hoppes 9? So I thought I’d bring this to you guys. What can be used to keep you firearms in business for years after society has collapsed? Just a hypothetical question.

I bought the same gun years ago from a guy who had it for a long time before. He sold it to me for $10.00 because it would not fire. I bought it, took it home removed the barreled action from the stock and put it under the water of a verry hot shower tor 10 minutes. I then shook out the water and let it dry an cleaned it and the gun is now one of my favorites to shoot. .22 ammo is nasty, but good hot water with some dawn will break up the crud, at least it has for me.

[hunter63]

I bought the same gun years ago from a guy who had it for a long time before. He sold it to me for $10.00 because it would not fire. I bought it, took it home removed the barreled action from the stock and put it under the water of a verry hot shower tor 10 minutes. I then shook out the water and let it dry an cleaned it and the gun is now one of my favorites to shoot. .22 ammo is nasty, but good hot water with some dawn will break up the crud, at least it has for me.

Bravo, New guy scores a point for returning from the brink. Good show.

I'm a hot soapy, even boiling, water, gun cleaning type of guy my self.
Had am old J.C.Higgins 12ga, didn't want to strip down the trigger group, but was super dirty when I got it.........You would have been amazed and the crap that came out.

[Mad Cow]

Bravo, New guy scores a point for returning from the brink. Good show.

I'm a hot soapy, even boiling, water, gun cleaning type of guy my self.
Had am old J.C.Higgins 12ga, didn't want to strip down the trigger group, but was super dirty when I got it.........You would have been amazed and the crap that came out.

It's funny how shot guns and .22 seem to be the most neglected guns owned.

[hunter63]

You are correct......
Both are owned by anyone....in need of varmint control, not necessarily, hunter's, Home defense, ahd shooters in general.
To them it's like a hammer in the box, with no intrest than to use when needed.

[Beans]

Been there, done that, got trophies, T shirts, Etc

I have fired my share of weapons over the last 67 years, black powder, smokless powder, single action revolvers, double action revolvers. Semi Auto pistol, M1-Garand, BAR, M-2 Carbine, M-14, M-16. Thompson full auto, MP-5, Stens, Uzi's, Bolt guns, Lever guns, pump guns, single shots, 1919A4, M-60's, MA Duce, German MG 42, Ak 47, Some of them have been fired in combat, some on the firing ranges, some on LEO quals. some in competition.

I have used oil off the dipstick in a Military 4x4 duce and a half truck to keep my M-16 running.

All my black powder guns have been cleaned with hot soapy water and lightly oiled afterwards. Just clean as soon as possible.

MY BFF, we have been shooting together for around 30 years, a pard that I can/do/ will trust with my wife, my life, my bank account and my credit cards.

He is also a very active shooter, cleans his black powder firearms on the range immediately after the match using a Ballistol mixture without any signs of rusting. He has been using this mixture for over 10 years. He shoot CAS with his black powder revolvers, rifle and shotguns.

My choice if it ever occurs would be my AK-47 and my glock pistol. these tools are like my USMC issued K-bar. there are other tools that do some things better but these choices , at least for me, does everything "GOOD enough.

Both have been designed to operate with very little maintenance. The Ak47 I have seen pulled from a canal covered with rust, The bolt had to be kicked open to load it and it still fired.

My Glock has fired several hundred rounds, in matches in the desert enviorment, without cleaning and still operates. When i was working I would shoot a match on the weekend put the Glock up. work all week and then shoot it the next weekend's match.

When Glock first brought their pistol into the US, their rep Bob McNally brought one of the first Glock 17 to the SOF convention in Las Vegas, for demonstrations. He also ran one of the first Glock Armor schools in a hotel room in the Sahara Hotel. As part of the Demo he would throw the G17 across the asphalt parking lot over and over again, Did it break, Yes it did. The sights broke off. Did it look like hell? Yes it did. It was scratched and surface dinged. We all cringed when he did it. No one volunteered to do the same thing to our Browning HP, 1911, Sigs ETC.

He would then take it to the Desert Sportsman gun range. drag it in the dirt, bury it, throw it again across the rock/gravel/sand range/parking area, pick it up and make sure the barrel was clear, then pass it around with full 17 rd magazines for us to fire.

He did this for several days in a row, the duration of the convention, using the same pistol.

AS part of the SOF staff I was part of Mr. McNally's range detail and I never saw the pistol fail to fire. It made a believer out of me. Although I have kept my 1911's, my primary carry gun over the last 24 years has been made by Glock, G17, G19, G23 and now my match gun a G35. Although I still sneak my 1911 in there occasionally both for CCW and matches.
Firearms have came a long way since 1987, in reliably and design, both civilian and Military.


No! I don't neglect my firearms, they get cleaned regularly and oiled. I have been using Mobil 1 to lube my firearms for at least 5 years and no firearm failure. Do I shoot? Yes I shoot between 10,000- 15,000 rds a year.

Gun maintenance is a personal choice. My grand father who raised me on a farm in NE Missouri would clean his Winchester Model 12 shotgun everytime he or I used it. His Remington Model 12 .22 Pump rifle never got cleaned unless he or I had it out in the rain. the Winchester 94 harvested a whitetail deer every year and unless it got wet it was hung over the back door without cleaning, when the hunt was over until next year season. He fired it 3-4 times every year to make sure it still hit what he pointed it at, then he went hunting with it.

I am one of the lucky people that can handle a firearm leave fingerprints on it without causing any rust, even up to 6 months later. Some people it seems cannot look at a firearms without causing rust.

My opinon on WD 40. It does great to remove moisture from on or inside a firearm. When I was an active LEO we were warned about WD 40 Gumming up the action of our weapons If we didn't use it sparingly and then cleaned it out of the weapon.

Several other peoples opinon of WD 40 good and bad http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17525

[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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manualchoke (http://manualchoke.ru)medinfobooks (http://medinfobooks.ru)mp3lists (http://mp3lists.ru)nameresolution (http://nameresolution.ru)naphtheneseries (http://naphtheneseries.ru)narrowmouthed (http://narrowmouthed.ru)nationalcensus (http://nationalcensus.ru)naturalfunctor (http://naturalfunctor.ru)navelseed (http://navelseed.ru)neatplaster (http://neatplaster.ru)necroticcaries (http://necroticcaries.ru)negativefibration (http://negativefibration.ru)neighbouringrights (http://neighbouringrights.ru)objectmodule (http://objectmodule.ru)observationballoon (http://observationballoon.ru)
obstructivepatent (http://obstructivepatent.ru)oceanmining (http://oceanmining.ru)octupolephonon (http://octupolephonon.ru)offlinesystem (http://offlinesystem.ru)offsetholder (http://offsetholder.ru)olibanumresinoid (http://olibanumresinoid.ru)onesticket (http://onesticket.ru)packedspheres (http://packedspheres.ru)pagingterminal (http://pagingterminal.ru)palatinebones (http://palatinebones.ru)palmberry (http://palmberry.ru)papercoating (http://papercoating.ru)paraconvexgroup (http://paraconvexgroup.ru)parasolmonoplane (http://parasolmonoplane.ru)parkingbrake (http://parkingbrake.ru)
partfamily (http://partfamily.ru)partialmajorant (http://partialmajorant.ru)quadrupleworm (http://quadrupleworm.ru)qualitybooster (http://qualitybooster.ru)quasimoney (http://quasimoney.ru)quenchedspark (http://quenchedspark.ru)quodrecuperet (http://quodrecuperet.ru)rabbetledge (http://rabbetledge.ru)radialchaser (http://radialchaser.ru)radiationestimator (http://radiationestimator.ru)railwaybridge (http://railwaybridge.ru)randomcoloration (http://randomcoloration.ru)rapidgrowth (http://rapidgrowth.ru)rattlesnakemaster (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru)reachthroughregion (http://reachthroughregion.ru)
readingmagnifier (http://readingmagnifier.ru)rearchain (http://rearchain.ru)recessioncone (http://recessioncone.ru)recordedassignment (http://recordedassignment.ru)rectifiersubstation (http://rectifiersubstation.ru)redemptionvalue (http://redemptionvalue.ru)reducingflange (http://reducingflange.ru)referenceantigen (http://referenceantigen.ru)regeneratedprotein (http://regeneratedprotein.ru)reinvestmentplan (http://reinvestmentplan.ru)safedrilling (http://safedrilling.ru)sagprofile (http://sagprofile.ru)salestypelease (http://salestypelease.ru)samplinginterval (http://samplinginterval.ru)satellitehydrology (http://satellitehydrology.ru)
scarcecommodity (http://scarcecommodity.ru)scrapermat (http://scrapermat.ru)screwingunit (http://screwingunit.ru)seawaterpump (http://seawaterpump.ru)secondaryblock (http://secondaryblock.ru)secularclergy (http://secularclergy.ru)seismicefficiency (http://seismicefficiency.ru)selectivediffuser (http://selectivediffuser.ru)semiasphalticflux (http://semiasphalticflux.ru)semifinishmachining (http://semifinishmachining.ru)spicetrade (http://spicetrade.ru)spysale (http://spysale.ru)stungun (http://stungun.ru)tacticaldiameter (http://tacticaldiameter.ru)tailstockcenter (http://tailstockcenter.ru)
tamecurve (http://tamecurve.ru)tapecorrection (http://tapecorrection.ru)tappingchuck (http://tappingchuck.ru)taskreasoning (http://taskreasoning.ru)technicalgrade (http://technicalgrade.ru)telangiectaticlipoma (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)telescopicdamper (http://telescopicdamper.ru)temperateclimate (http://temperateclimate.ru)temperedmeasure (http://temperedmeasure.ru)tenementbuilding (http://tenementbuilding.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)ultramaficrock (http://ultramaficrock.ru)ultraviolettesting (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)