food for thought [Archive] - Wilderness Survival Forums

wareagle69

08-02-2011, 05:16 PM

so i was at work pulling the night shift again and i thought i would put in a good moovie and enjoy a bag of popcorn, rough life i know, so i was watching" i am legend" and was struck by the thought as i watch him go thru all the buildings 3 yrs after the occurance, he was looking for food, really 3 yrs later, with out heat in the north i wonder about the shelf life of these cans as they freeze and thaw,then the summer heat, the repat the cycle again!.
makes me wonder as i read what some doomers post about finding the cashed food or left behind stores, what is the safety of such food.
i could find out easy enough for the last 4 yrs i have had some canned pasta sauce in my garage just waitng for a test like this.hmmmm, well if ya never hear from me agin you'll know why lol.

BENESSE

08-02-2011, 06:20 PM

That movie really resonated with me since it takes place in NYC and I could see myself in those circumstances albeit a little far fetched with the mutants and all.
Similarly, the book "Earth Abides" portrays the US after most of the population dies from a deadly epidemic and those who survive (built in immunity) subsist for years on an abundant supply of canned foods left behind in grocery stores, warehouses and depots. Not as nutritious but better than nothing, IMO. Wonder if anything is downright dangerous even if still sealed tight? Could have something to do with the container itself leaching substances that can pose a problem as they become more degraded.

crashdive123

08-02-2011, 06:21 PM

If the can has not been compromised or has bulged out, the contents "should" be safe to eat. They may have lost some of their nutritional value.

COWBOYSURVIVAL

08-02-2011, 06:36 PM

I use the smell test when in doubt.

hunter63

08-02-2011, 08:21 PM

I use the smell test when in doubt.
Had to bring that up, huh....I find it hard to eat "sniffed food".

Winter

08-02-2011, 08:51 PM

I've eaten very old canned food a few times. The Campbell's cream of mushroom suffered badly in the taste department. Flavor and nutrients degraded badly.
It was 3 yrs out of date.

Some cheap grocery store brand Clam Chowder that I tried, 6 months after it's expiration, tasted exactly like the can.

From this I learned to always store quality canned goods. I believe the can lining in quality canned goods saves the food from the horrible can taste.

tipacanoe

08-02-2011, 09:44 PM

Had some Budweiser when I was in the Navy down in Antarctica, that had frozen and thawed out a number of times. The taste wasn't all that good for the first eleven ounces, the 12 ounce you didn't want to talk about.

Sourdough

08-02-2011, 09:55 PM

Storing can goods in an arctic or sub-arctic lake below freeze level, where the temperature is a steady 38*F should help.

Sparky93

08-02-2011, 10:24 PM

My mom once watched my great grandpa get some balogna out of the fridge, wipe the thick layer of slime off it, and make it into a sandwich mmmmmm yumie.....

whitis

08-03-2011, 02:33 AM

It probably won't kill you unless the cans are bulging or damaged but it may not do a very good job of keeping you alive and healthy in the long term, either.

Studies on 40, 65, and 100 year old canned food indicated that it was microbially safe.
http://www.grandpappy.info/hshelff.htm
If there are any microbes in the can, they arent going to wait 5 years to breed like rabbits.

On the other hand some unpasturized home cooked spaghetti sauce in mason jars that was a year old and had been exposed to some freeze thaw cycles was bad news even after simmering for 30 minutes. Put the first spoonful in my mouth and immediately felt an energy drain. Spit it out instead of swallowing, rinsed my mouth out. Was sick for days. Did not smell or taste bad. Boiling before and after not a substitute for pasteurization. Boiling afterwards may or may not kill the germs but it doesn't neutralize the toxins.

Another source says you loose 5%-20% of vitamin A and C per year and get oxidation of pigments and who knows what else): http://preparingyourfamily.com/shelf-life-commercially-canned-foods/
USDA gudelines mentioned in one of the sites referenced by the first link say to use high acid foods within 1.5-2 years and low acid foods within 2-5 years.

Freezing canned food could affect the texture. It can also contribute to rusting cans and ruptured cans. Hot and cold cycling, even without freezing, can lead to condensation which causes rust. High temperatures in uncooled buildings could significantly reduce shelf life. A 15 celsius degree temperature change is likely to double (hotter) or halve (cooler) the rate of deterioration.

Cans stored in the lake are likely to rust unless very well protected. Underground caches also need protection. unidentified "cans" on the steamboat bertrand survived a century under water but the metaalurgy could be significantly different. Tin vs steel? nickel plate?
We study the artifacts that manage to survive under favorable conditions, not the ones that are completely destroyed.

There is an adage: "eat food that spoils,but eat it before it does." Long term survival should include open-pollinated seeds.

Winter

08-03-2011, 03:49 AM

Good info Whitis.

100yr old canned food? Yummy.

wtrfwlr

08-03-2011, 04:59 AM

The best one that I've ever done was I lost a venison 1/4 under a load of ground and sausage and didn't find it until 5yrs later(chest type freezer) and found it. Well I wasn't just going to throw it out so I thawed it, unwrapped it, looked it over and after a little trimming of the freezer burned outer small parts it was good to go on the smoker. I double wrap in plastic wrap and wrap very tightly in freezer paper. And do not forget to LABEL IT! Needs to have date and what's in the pkg.

Blasfemo

08-03-2011, 05:07 AM

yesterday i found a 7 year old expired beer wonder how that is gonna taste...

wtrfwlr

08-03-2011, 05:31 AM

It's just like wine, I think, just don't chill it it will be soooo much better at room temp. PM me when you get out of the ER or mental ward, whichever. Best wishes, all of our prayers are with you!

your_comforting_company

08-03-2011, 06:34 AM

This year I learned the difference between "high acid" and "low acid" foods in canning. I would think that pasta sauce, being mostly tomatoes high in acid, would last longer than say, canned corn. I've also learned about pressure canning vs boiling water bath. The things we are worried most about are the bacteria and yeasts and molds. At 240 degrees, these and the toxins they make are all destroyed and rendered harmless.
Makes me wonder if you could take "questionable" foodstuffs, pressure cook it (again) to make it safe. Might not have great texture, but if it'll fill a belly...

of course, this theory hinges on having a pressure cooker and a way to control the heat it gets.
Hunger is a strong motivator.

Sourdough

08-03-2011, 09:48 AM

Hell, I think nothing of drinking 12 year old Bourbon or 16 year old Whiskey. It tastes fine to me.

BENESSE

08-03-2011, 12:39 PM

Hell, I think nothing of drinking 12 year old Bourbon or 16 year old Whiskey. It tastes fine to me.

That's not Food For Thought, that's Food To Forget. Just as important, IMO.

oldtrap59

08-03-2011, 02:17 PM

I want very much to comment in this thread but after thinking about it for a bit, my comments would fill a book and probably upset many that buy into what the FDA and USDA studies have to say on the subject.(both of these gov offices are more into the profits of the drug companies and large food producers then they are into the good of the people putting them into their bodies IMHO) So all I will say is. Most items you find on the shelf of the average house are ok to eat well after the expiration date on the can. (May be the only time I agree with the FDA or USDA.) I didn't say they were good for you. Just that they would keep you alive.

Oldtrap

Rick

08-03-2011, 05:55 PM

WE - I think it's a valid point. Freeze thaw cycles on any type of food is not a good thing.

Freezer burned food is fine. It may not be very palatable but it's perfectly safe to eat.

My plan goes like this. If everyone dies then I'm going with them. If half of everyone dies then I may or may not. Depends. If not very many die then I'll probably hang around. I'm pretty certain I won't be the lone Robert Neville cruising the city looking for manikins.

crashdive123

08-03-2011, 06:05 PM

Yeah, but have you seen the new mannequins over at Billy Bobs Guns and Ammo? Woowee!

Rick

08-03-2011, 06:07 PM

I talked to Blondie once thank you. Would up with new guns and still can't find my American Express.

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yellowcab

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12-13-2025, 05:41 PM

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