Savings bonds

[canid]

I'm a bit irked. I was at the treasury's site, and I have known for a while that they allow you to buy bonds on-line. What I did not know was that they will cease selling paper bonds on the first of the year.

Some people, such as myself, do not have a bank account, and as such can not register for their on-line service. Ergo; I will not be able to buy bonds.

Nice going.

[Winnie]

Well, that's not good. I hope it not a sign of things to come. I have Govt Savings Bonds. I've had some many years, but since the banks have being playing fast and loose, I converted a lot more of my savings. I like paper.

[pgvoutdoors]

The government is eliminating all paper instruments like checks and certificates, and going to direct deposits and electronic record keeping. If you don't have a bank account here soon, you best not need anything from the government.

[canid]

i did a little math earlier. i didn't double check my figures, but as i have it, if the US were to eliminate it's deficit tomorrow, and inflation were held static, every household would have to pay $78 per member into the treasury each month to eliminate the public debt in 50 years.

I'd like to find a way to encourage the public to try for at least a little of that, though the first issue is certainly no small obstacle either. I'm trying to figure out a way to motivate a sort of bond drive, and maybe draw some public attention to it.

[canid]

yeah; it's pretty sh#$ty. It sort of feels like being told that i'm too poor for my contribution to matter.

[crashdive123]

There is a simple way to eliminate the debt. (simple, not easy) It starts with living within our means.

[LowKey]

I don't do banking online. The internet is in no way secure and every day you read of more and more hacks.
And considering every government office or entity I've ever visited (from Post Office, to Registry of MV, to the local Police Department) they never have the best, or even the most upgraded computer equipment...

[hunter63]

I don't do banking online. The internet is in no way secure and every day you read of more and more hacks.
And considering every government office or entity I've ever visited (from Post Office, to Registry of MV, to the local Police Department) they never have the best, or even the most upgraded computer equipment...

I'm not comfortable with having every thing "on line" either.

Your information get transmitted around, whether you want it to or not.

I do have accounts but I like the face time and actual "cash" transactions.

Had got a notice that my credit card was one of a batch of hacked numbers for a very large retailer.
Netted me a free ID theft policy for a year and new numbers.

It's really too bad that most everything these days "requires" a credit card, but i guess a CC with a limited line is better than giving out you account numbers.

I can still remember reading "1984" long before 1984.........
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four

Sad about the saving bonds....Like who buys them?.... Old people with money, that don't want to mess with the interweb.

[canid]

and people who understand that it may be wiser to invest their money directly into a public treasury swarming with debt than a banking industry that is crumbling. If we've decided that it's not a lucrative investment, haven't we already lost our nation at heart?

[Winnie]

and people who understand that it may be wiser to invest their money directly into a public treasury swarming with debt than a banking industry that is crumbling. If we've decided that it's not a lucrative investment, haven't we already lost our nation at heart?

You hit the nail on the head there, Canid. As for bank security, I've had my account mismanaged and fraudulently emptied. Its not just online baniking that's not safe.

[Rick]

If you want to eliminate public debt then savings bonds is NOT the way to do it. Savings bonds are one more way the government borrows money and goes into debt. They borrow your $50 and pay back $66.45 (or whatever the inflation rated index turns out to be. I think 2.3% for May). Multiply that by the number of people, buying bonds and you have some serious debt. You might be interested to know that you purchase them from the Bureau of the Public Debt. That's an agency inside the Department of the Treasury. Would it be better to name them the Bureau of the Get Out of Debt?

[canid]

Domestic treasury bonds purchases offset the need for other nations to purchase our bonds. it really does work that way. Think about it this way: out public budget is such that it requires more than we pull in in public funds. The money has to come from somewhere. Would you rather it came in the form of a loan from overseas, or from right here at home to the extent that we can afford it? It is not as if we do not have the resources. If you had money in your account and your wife needed an essential item she could not afford from her account, do you help her out, or ask her to buy it on credit?

Perhaps more importantly, it is one avenue by which Americans can knowingly and directly make this contribution. We can do many things to reduce our dependence on foreign debt, and we need to do them all. I don't see any point in ignoring the benefit of any one of them when all our efforts combined are not currently cutting it.

[Rick]

No argument what-so-ever. I think you were right on the mark.
to the extent that we can afford it I thought you were trying to stop borrowing altogether. If we, as a nation, learn to live within our means then we wouldn't need to borrow as extensively as we do. Some borrowing will always be necessary but in that context borrowing at home makes sense.

[canid]

Agreed completely; but do you see much hope that we're in a big hurry to do that (living within our means)?

The obvious avenues are already being discussed (and debated) publicly. I'm choosing this avenue because currently, I'm not hearing it discussed at all. As I have said, we need to do them all. From a global standpoint, us loaning ourselves money is in fact not the same animal as foreign nations loaning us money. It is a temporary, voluntary measure to agree we will do in some extra part with our own what we don't have to do with somebody elses.

the flip side is that that dollar we are investing in ourselves is increasing our means, rather than purchasing non-durable goods (of course many of us will try to do both, rather than sacraficing one for the other) from a nation who will use that dollar to purchase more of our debt.

incidentally; the interest rate on these bonds is set such that they are more equitable than lucrative, it is fixed according to inflation such that the example $50 dollars you lent them will be worth about the same as the $66.45 is worth when the bond matures.

[Rick]

There are two sides to the coin. If other countries are borrowing from us then the interest they earn can be used to buy durable goods from us. That means we can increase exports, which is a good thing. As part of global economy it becomes less and less an us vs. them thing. But I agree that we need to borrow from us first just on principle (as opposed to principal).

[canid]

We export goods according to demand, not supply. The more we try to modify apparent demand by adjusting prices the further we drift from the hard reality of what an economy is. To increase our exports relative to our inports, we have a number of choices.

we can adjust the prices of our exports to make them price competitive. independent of cost saving measures constantly being sought (and often undermining the value of the goods as it is), this reduces revenue.

we can import less. we are a nation of competent manufacturers who can choose to make quality durable goods at a reasonable cost and price, if we can encourage the public to understand that a quality item which costs $100 dollars and lasts 10 years is equal in investment to a $50 import which lasts 5, except that it is also a local investment that doesn't hemorhage money overseas or have consume much more in real resources than either of the two items which are being replaces twice.

[canid]

I don't mean that we must compete unfairly against our neighbors, but be mindful that this process can harm us if left un-checked. the rate nations like china are producing inefficient, use throwaway goods is ultimately hurting them anyway. I don't want to see us continuing in that direction or them, but we can make the decision for ourselves at home.

sorry; i've got a load of coffee in my system and it seems to be tangent hour for me :D

I'll stop pushing my opinions while it's in the realm of economic science (before it gets too political) so long as I feel that many of you are thinking about it hard.

[Rick]

All I meant was if a country can afford to buy goods then they will. Hence the demand is generated. In many cases demand is there but there is no means of obtaining it. You might want a house but if you can't afford it then you don't buy it (or shouldn't). The demand is there but the means is not. If you suddenly have money then means meets demand. Supply then follows demand. Jobs are created. Our people go back to work. Roses bloom and rainbows brighten the skies. See? It's a good thing.

[Winter]

We are like 7 trillion $ in debt, I wouldn't bank on US anything.

[Rick]

A trillion here a trillion there and pretty soon you're talking about serious money.

[crashdive123]

We are like 7 trillion $ in debt, I wouldn't bank on US anything.

Closer to 15 trillion.

[Winter]

Mindboggling.

[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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lambdatransition (http://lambdatransition.ru)laminatedmaterial (http://laminatedmaterial.ru)lammasshoot (http://lammasshoot.ru)lamphouse (http://lamphouse.ru)lancecorporal (http://lancecorporal.ru)lancingdie (http://lancingdie.ru)landingdoor (http://landingdoor.ru)landmarksensor (http://landmarksensor.ru)landreform (http://landreform.ru)landuseratio (http://landuseratio.ru)languagelaboratory (http://languagelaboratory.ru)largeheart (http://largeheart.ru)lasercalibration (http://lasercalibration.ru)laserlens (http://laserlens.ru)laserpulse (http://laserpulse.ru)

[yellowcab]

laterevent (http://laterevent.ru)latrinesergeant (http://latrinesergeant.ru)layabout (http://layabout.ru)leadcoating (http://leadcoating.ru)leadingfirm (http://leadingfirm.ru)learningcurve (http://learningcurve.ru)leaveword (http://leaveword.ru)machinesensible (http://machinesensible.ru)magneticequator (http://magneticequator.ru)magnetotelluricfield (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru)mailinghouse (http://mailinghouse.ru)majorconcern (http://majorconcern.ru)mammasdarling (http://mammasdarling.ru)managerialstaff (http://managerialstaff.ru)manipulatinghand (http://manipulatinghand.ru)
manualchoke (http://manualchoke.ru)medinfobooks (http://medinfobooks.ru)mp3lists (http://mp3lists.ru)nameresolution (http://nameresolution.ru)naphtheneseries (http://naphtheneseries.ru)narrowmouthed (http://narrowmouthed.ru)nationalcensus (http://nationalcensus.ru)naturalfunctor (http://naturalfunctor.ru)navelseed (http://navelseed.ru)neatplaster (http://neatplaster.ru)necroticcaries (http://necroticcaries.ru)negativefibration (http://negativefibration.ru)neighbouringrights (http://neighbouringrights.ru)objectmodule (http://objectmodule.ru)observationballoon (http://observationballoon.ru)
obstructivepatent (http://obstructivepatent.ru)oceanmining (http://oceanmining.ru)octupolephonon (http://octupolephonon.ru)offlinesystem (http://offlinesystem.ru)offsetholder (http://offsetholder.ru)olibanumresinoid (http://olibanumresinoid.ru)onesticket (http://onesticket.ru)packedspheres (http://packedspheres.ru)pagingterminal (http://pagingterminal.ru)palatinebones (http://palatinebones.ru)palmberry (http://palmberry.ru)papercoating (http://papercoating.ru)paraconvexgroup (http://paraconvexgroup.ru)parasolmonoplane (http://parasolmonoplane.ru)parkingbrake (http://parkingbrake.ru)
partfamily (http://partfamily.ru)partialmajorant (http://partialmajorant.ru)quadrupleworm (http://quadrupleworm.ru)qualitybooster (http://qualitybooster.ru)quasimoney (http://quasimoney.ru)quenchedspark (http://quenchedspark.ru)quodrecuperet (http://quodrecuperet.ru)rabbetledge (http://rabbetledge.ru)radialchaser (http://radialchaser.ru)radiationestimator (http://radiationestimator.ru)railwaybridge (http://railwaybridge.ru)randomcoloration (http://randomcoloration.ru)rapidgrowth (http://rapidgrowth.ru)rattlesnakemaster (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru)reachthroughregion (http://reachthroughregion.ru)
readingmagnifier (http://readingmagnifier.ru)rearchain (http://rearchain.ru)recessioncone (http://recessioncone.ru)recordedassignment (http://recordedassignment.ru)rectifiersubstation (http://rectifiersubstation.ru)redemptionvalue (http://redemptionvalue.ru)reducingflange (http://reducingflange.ru)referenceantigen (http://referenceantigen.ru)regeneratedprotein (http://regeneratedprotein.ru)reinvestmentplan (http://reinvestmentplan.ru)safedrilling (http://safedrilling.ru)sagprofile (http://sagprofile.ru)salestypelease (http://salestypelease.ru)samplinginterval (http://samplinginterval.ru)satellitehydrology (http://satellitehydrology.ru)
scarcecommodity (http://scarcecommodity.ru)scrapermat (http://scrapermat.ru)screwingunit (http://screwingunit.ru)seawaterpump (http://seawaterpump.ru)secondaryblock (http://secondaryblock.ru)secularclergy (http://secularclergy.ru)seismicefficiency (http://seismicefficiency.ru)selectivediffuser (http://selectivediffuser.ru)semiasphalticflux (http://semiasphalticflux.ru)semifinishmachining (http://semifinishmachining.ru)spicetrade (http://spicetrade.ru)spysale (http://spysale.ru)stungun (http://stungun.ru)tacticaldiameter (http://tacticaldiameter.ru)tailstockcenter (http://tailstockcenter.ru)
tamecurve (http://tamecurve.ru)tapecorrection (http://tapecorrection.ru)tappingchuck (http://tappingchuck.ru)taskreasoning (http://taskreasoning.ru)technicalgrade (http://technicalgrade.ru)telangiectaticlipoma (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)telescopicdamper (http://telescopicdamper.ru)temperateclimate (http://temperateclimate.ru)temperedmeasure (http://temperedmeasure.ru)tenementbuilding (http://tenementbuilding.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)ultramaficrock (http://ultramaficrock.ru)ultraviolettesting (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)