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fishslayer112
07-14-2011, 01:01 PM
My cousin and I are intrested in all sorts of Native American arrowheads and bows and moccasins and so on. So we got a piece of hickory, split in, and let it dry. Once it dried I sanded it down and cut it to the shape I wanted. I then tied a string on. It feels like 50 lbs. but when i pull it back I cant get it to a full arms length. It also hardly gets off the string. And tips to make it faster with out decreasing draw weight?


https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&ik=31177b7895&view=att&th=131298c31cb01466&attid=0.0&disp=inline&zw
Canadian-guerilla
07-14-2011, 02:23 PM
My cousin and I are intrested in all sorts of Native American arrowheads and bows and moccasins and so on. So we got a piece of hickory, split in, and let it dry. Once it dried I sanded it down and cut it to the shape I wanted. I then tied a string on. It feels like 50 lbs. but when i pull it back I cant get it to a full arms length. It also hardly gets off the string. And tips to make it faster with out decreasing draw weight?

have you done a search for " tillering " ?


have you tried any primitive websites ?

http://slinging.org/

http://primitivearcher.com/

http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/
edr730
07-14-2011, 10:21 PM
It sounds as if your bow is stacking or very hard to pull the last few inches. Usually because it's too short. Longer bows are generally smoother pulling and faster. I've never been a fan of the short magnum bows for hunting. The magnums are far less accurate also. I like a 60-62 inch recurve for hunting. The longbow advocates use longer than this and kant their bows more when they hunt on their knees. A target archer will use the longest bow and be the most accurate.
crashdive123
07-14-2011, 10:34 PM
Read some of the threads by Canid and FVR on bow making. Right now it sounds like you have a stick with a string on it.
Rick
07-14-2011, 10:44 PM
edr - I'm not a bow man so my question might be dumb but..... Is your response the reason that military archers nearly always used long bows? I assumed this was true because of accuracy and distance. But is the longer bow also easier to use? I've seen examples where bows were longer than some archers were tall.
FVR
07-14-2011, 11:13 PM
Yes, the longer the bow the easier to pull high poundage.

Here is a good site to read through for bow building. http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/

Right now you have a good survival bow, quick and easy. You now need to tiller it, but with this fashion of bow it may not be possible.

Post a pic as I would like to see it.
canid
07-15-2011, 02:27 AM
Take all the advice offered in this thread so far. There's a lot more to making a good, efficient bow than tying string to a tapered stick, but anything that will throw an arrow is a great place to start.

The tillering process is the critical part. It's about removing every bit of wood that isn't working for you and being careful not to remove any that is. You do this by removing wood, predominately from the belly and sides until the limbs bend in a smooth arc. While doing this, you make sure not to pull the bow further than it is ready for, and not further than you wish your final weight to be so you do not over-stress any thinner or weaker portion of your limbs.

The back side should be free of any defect that will cause a crack to begin. the sides should be reasonably free of these as well. all edges should generally be rounded enough that such stress is not concentrated there (e.g. they should at least not be sharp edges).

A frequent pitfall is to have the outer portions of the limbs too thick or wide, such that they do not do as much work as the inner portions. This leaves them much heavier than they need to be, slowing down your bow. It also leaves the inner limbs doing twice the work they should, increasing the stress that is on those areas.

If you ever want to take and post some pictures while you're working on one, we'll be around to help you out as we have time.

Best of luck. I hope you get the bug and it sticks :D
Canadian-guerilla
07-15-2011, 10:28 AM
The tillering process is the critical part. It's about removing every bit of wood that isn't working for you and being careful not to remove any that is. You do this by removing wood, predominately from the belly and sides until the limbs bend in a smooth arc. While doing this, you make sure not to pull the bow further than it is ready for, and not further than you wish your final weight to be so you do not over-stress any thinner or weaker portion of your limbs.


a great explanation of tillering :thumbs_up:

the 2 times i've tried tillering, i took my time, 5 minutes at a time, then stand back
edr730
07-15-2011, 04:26 PM
Rick, yes you're correct about the longbows. My understanding is that the smaller bows were used by men on horseback. Kinda the pistoleros of the day or the buffalo hunters. I don't know what even a novice bowyer knows. But, I have listened around the campfire to the best archers and bowyers in the nation many times as a boy. Fred Bear was was always close...he wasn't old then. Howard Hill was around if the tournament was a big one. Many other big names that have been lost or forgotten in time. Jennings, Rube Powell may ring a bell to some. Jennings worked for Fred at that time. Sometimes things rubbed off if I hadn't fallen to sleep on the ground somewhere. Those men were just other archers to me back then. For the most part I just liked to listen to the stories because some of those men could really tell 'em. Fishslayer, anyone that takes a stick and a string and trys to cast an arrow with it is all right in my book.
crashdive123
07-15-2011, 04:29 PM
Absolutely - many a stick and string have harvested food for the family.
wtrfwlr
07-15-2011, 06:36 PM
edr- What an enviable youth you were blessed with. I do recognize those names and they ring more than bells with me they are legends. With the utmost respect may I also throw a nod to Mr. Ben Pearson? I'm from Arkansas so there is a faint connection to his legacy with me. Did you ever have the chance to meet him? I understand how special it must be to have those stories from your past, would love to hear some of them myself. Please think about making your experience with these pioneers of our time available to others. Fishslayer congrats on the attempt the only help I can throw your way is contact your local Traditional Bowhunters Assc. there is lot's of help there. And I really learned alot from the three volumes of Traditional Bowyers Bible. Feel free to ask me whatever.-wtrfwlr
JPGreco
07-15-2011, 09:30 PM
edr - I'm not a bow man so my question might be dumb but..... Is your response the reason that military archers nearly always used long bows? I assumed this was true because of accuracy and distance. But is the longer bow also easier to use? I've seen examples where bows were longer than some archers were tall.

It wasn't so much for accuracy because archers weren't really front line infantry. The movies do have it right in this respect where competing armies just volleyed rounds of arrows at each other. The army that could shoot farther could hit his enemy while not being hit themselves. Basically, the long bow got as big as it physically could be handled. The funny thing is how that style of fighting carried over into firearms with army's facing each other and shooting.
wtrfwlr
07-15-2011, 10:10 PM
You've got it right with that if you read about some of the ancient English bows that would shoot unbelievable distances with lenghts of 70" and up and 150# draw weights, But hey, that,s ancient warfare and if I had my druthers I would rather be a1000 yds away than standing toe to toe poking each other with sharp sticks!
edr730
07-19-2011, 10:00 PM
wtrfwir I'm sorry I don't recall Ben Pearson, but he was a long ways away from my state. A great man no doubt. Of course, I recall the equipment. I suspect he was around though. I guess he would have been the competition. The two men who were constant were Fred Bear and even more so was Rube Powell or the man with the upside down sailors hat. He was the one who started the professional archery association at that time. I recall Ann Marston and I do recall some of the top names. I was small, but I was probably at the NFAA nationals in Grayling and New York but never went to Bend, Oregan or Arkansas. The big army tents all blend together and I didn't always know were I was at the moment. I was only about 10. I can repeat stories if you want to contact me. There are still a handful of those top archers left of that era and maybe you'd rather talk to some that were adults at the time. It's no trouble for me to ask, but I can't be sure of the answer. I have DVD's of my Dad's movies of many of the old archers at the old tournaments.
mouse111111
08-13-2011, 10:27 PM
Actually I'm more impressed with the Turks during the first cruesades. Their bows were so large they had to shoot them by placing the bow on their feet, laying on the ground, and pulling the string to their chins. Those bows had a range of over 500 yards! And on the other hand there were plains indians with only 25 pound long bows that could still take down buffalo.
Mad Cow
08-15-2011, 03:47 PM
My cousin and I are intrested in all sorts of Native American arrowheads and bows and moccasins and so on. So we got a piece of hickory, split in, and let it dry. Once it dried I sanded it down and cut it to the shape I wanted. I then tied a string on. It feels like 50 lbs. but when i pull it back I cant get it to a full arms length. It also hardly gets off the string. And tips to make it faster with out decreasing draw weight?


https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&ik=31177b7895&view=att&th=131298c31cb01466&attid=0.0&disp=inline&zw

Design is critical. Narrow tips, and some reflex will gain speed, and lose some hand shock. Self bows are not my thing, but I have shot some that were as sweet as any fiberglass laminated bows I own. The bow design chapter in the traditional bowyers bible is priceless, as well as the section on tillering, and alternative bow woods. Also, never never draw the bow past the finished weight.
oldtrap59
08-15-2011, 05:39 PM
I resently found an older vcr tape(being an oldtimer I still have a tape player) at a rumage sale that does a pretty good job of showing how to build a wooden flatbow. Has insight on wood and how to come up with a good stave all the way to how to seal the finished bow. Not sure the makers are still in business but this was put out by an outfit called the Stickery. The man that does the bow work on the tape is named Keller. Never know what you might find at a yard sale.

Oldtrap

Looked up the Stickery and found only a fellow that makes walking sticks in SC. Doesn't seem to be the same outfit.
Mad Cow
08-15-2011, 08:11 PM
I resently found an older vcr tape(being an oldtimer I still have a tape player) at a rumage sale that does a pretty good job of showing how to build a wooden flatbow. Has insight on wood and how to come up with a good stave all the way to how to seal the finished bow. Not sure the makers are still in business but this was put out by an outfit called the Stickery. The man that does the bow work on the tape is named Keller. Never know what you might find at a yard sale.

Oldtrap

Looked up the Stickery and found only a fellow that makes walking sticks in SC. Doesn't seem to be the same outfit.

There is also allot of free videos online to. Thats one thing I like about the self bow crowed, they sure like showing people haw to make bows.
mouse111111
08-16-2011, 08:24 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGz6Pxx31FE This video kinda helped me through my first. Watch all 7 or so parts.
oldtrap59
08-16-2011, 01:01 PM
Checked out the site that FVR showed in post #6 in this thread. Looks to have alot of info on bows and other related projects. Thanks FVR. Ya you tube is a good source but some of us find it impossible for one reason or another to get high speed service where we live. If you've ever tried to watch a vidio on dialup(Many of you I'm sure have never had that pleasure) you know what I'm talking about. Oh well. In my case I traded life in the country for high speed. So far I have no regrets.

Mad Cow. I have to agree with your statment on the self bow folks. I used to go every year to the Iowa traditional bow hunters meet. There were always plenty of self bows there forsale or if you wanted you could find several bowyers that were more then happy to help you out making your own. I learned more on those three day weekends then I ever did reading all the bow building books I own. Just something about hands on. The thing that always surprised me most was how these guys could take just about any kind of wood stave and make a good working bow. I don't remember their names anymore but there were a couple fellows that always came up from southern Ill that I swear could make a bow from anything wood. If my memory serves me I think at that time they said between them they had built over a #1000 self bows over the years. I guess that's the answer. EXPERIENCE!!

fishslayer. Read all you can read on bow building. Watch all you can find online or elsewhere. If you have the chance go to a traditional meet and get some hands on. Soon your hickory stick will be a bow.

Oldtrap
Mad Cow
08-16-2011, 02:13 PM
It is awesome. I whined about not being able to get decent wood one time, so a guy took me to ACE. we bought two axe handles, and a broom handle and had a shooting bow that afternoon. After the splice dried on the axe handles we had another bow. My boys still shoot them. The one made from axe handles came apart in the rain, but was glued back together and is back in action, Well sitting in my oldest Sons closet being neglected. Once I understood how to design them, it became easy. The challenge for me is in fixing mistakes, and having patients. What woods are you near ? You should have some famous bow makers near you.
mouse111111
08-18-2011, 08:31 AM
Ya I understand that we only just got DSL.
mouse111111
08-24-2011, 06:58 PM
Do black walnut or persimmon work well as self-bows? Actually I'm sure persimmon does but I don't know how flexible black walnut is. I found several nice saplings out behind the pond.(Would have had osage and locust but I used them for firewood before I discovered bow-making.)
Mad Cow
08-25-2011, 12:36 AM
Just about anything can be used, you just have to use good bow design and building practices, like never drawing past the finished weight, and taking your time. The first book in the traditional bowyers bible will give you everything you need on bow design, but in the end you have to make some shavings. Here are some links I used when I started. I used them along with the traditional bowyers bible book one. Also keep in mind that many folks say only osage, and yew are the best bow woods. Also keep in mind that a marginally straight and knot free piece of either is sold for about $150.00 or more. Hickory is getting that way to. You can do just fine with the non standard bow woods, you just need to pay attention to design. After you break a few, you will figure out what you are doing and wont believe how easy making bows can be.

http://www.murraygaskins.com/abw.html

http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/6213#.TlXPcaiezrc

http://www.primitiveways.com/sapling_bow.html
wholsomback
08-25-2011, 09:27 AM
Just got done making my daughter a shortbow and tillering is the only way to get it to shoot properly.Now after I get my wifes longbow built we can all be out stumpshooting and havin fun.On building bows practice makes perfect but a tree never is,selfbows all come out differently but if you would use planks it would make for a more consistant build everytime you build it.One good point is the longer your drawlength the longer your bow needs to be.
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