Beginner Questions

[Sparky93]

Whats are the first five things a beginner should learn related to survival, like firecraft, plant identifacation, etc. I would like to make a list and check one thing off at a time.

[NightShade]

Water purification, fire building, shelter building, first aid, orienteering... not nessacarily in that order.

[Sourdough]

The very first thing is get your butt into the wilderness. Second thing is Get your Butt into the wilderness. Read Sarge47 blog posts, but get your butt into the wilderness. If I forgot to mention it "Get your Butt into the wilderness". It will show you what you need to learn. Example: Last week I learned steel butt plates don't work with padded straps.

[Sparky93]

The very first thing is get your butt into the wilderness. Second thing is Get your Butt into the wilderness. Read Sarge47 blog posts, but get your butt into the wilderness. If I forgot to mention it "Get your Butt into the wilderness". It will show you what you need to learn. Example: Last week I learned steel butt plates don't work with padded straps.

Good advice, I spend most of my time outside wether I'm worken as a farm hand or hunten and fishen but fore the past few days I have been sick and bed ridden so I have spent most of my time pickin on my guitar or I'm on this forum. The other day I tryed to make a fire with a bow drill but all I managed to do was get a lot of smoke and no coal. I think my problem was my hearth so once I crawl out of my bedroom I'll try again with a different hearth.

[hunter63]

The first list.....
What are you gonna survive?

[kyratshooter]

There are a lot of things that need to be done BEFORE you go to the wilderness. The people that did not learn before they went to the woods are the ones we read about in the SAR stories.

Not all survival skills are restricted to wilderness use either.

You need to know water purification skills, firebuilding skills and at least minimal shelter building skills before you go on a hike through the local park.

You have a three minute air loss window
three hour shelter window
three day water limit

That is required for survival in the wilderness, the suburbs of Seattle or the concrete of NY City.

[Winter]

These are the things that people who find themselves in a survival situation need to simply stay alive.


Shelter- made or found
Water - procurement and purification
Fire - modern and primitive
Food- gathering off and processing
Basic first aid


Secondary skills, the things that get you to safety.

Map reading and compass skills
Orienteering
Trapping and snares
advanced first aid
chainsaw juggling

[Sparky93]

The first list.....
What are you gonna survive?
I guess the scenario I would most likely be in is I've gone on a fishin trip with my family and I gotten turned around or night fall has dissoreantated me and I am forced to spend the night in the wilderness. While dissoreantated I have wonder farther off the beaten path than I thought and I am now lost. The things that come to my mind I would need are fire, shelter, and clean drinking water. That is the kind of scenario I would like to prepare for, surving until rescued. What are the first five things I should learn to prepare for such a scenario.

[Sparky93]

These are the things that people who find themselves in a survival situation need to simply stay alive.


Shelter- made or found
Water - procurement and purification
Fire - modern and primitive
Food- gathering off and processing
Basic first aid


Secondary skills, the things that get you to safety.

Map reading and compass skills
Orienteering
Trapping and snares
advanced first aid
chainsaw juggling

W.S.F.B.F.
Wilderness Survival Forum Best Friends or Water, Shelter, Fire, Basic first aid, Food :)

[Rick]

Sparky - You've asked a very good question. Last fall a father and two sons did a canoe trip to meet up with other folks. This was down by you and you probably remember the news story. The father decided they could not make the meet so pulled in to the bank to spend the night. Unfortunately, he forgot his cell phone and when they didn't arrive an all out SAR effort was called in. So, yes, it happens right here in Indiana. Fortunately, all were found okay the next morning after a lot of manhours and dollars spent.

You've gotten some pretty good advice. And some bad advice. Christopher McCandless is a good example of what happens to you when you go to the woods with no skills and let the woods teach you. And that chain saw juggling thing? Well, I can speak from experience that you had better get it perfect every time. I missed once. It's an, "Oh Snap!" moment.

[Sparky93]

I remember hearing about the that. I know better than to wonder off into the wilderness unprepared when my family and I go camping in colorado and I go fishing I always carry a fire starting device, a whistle, a knife and some cordage and whatever else I have in my fly fishing gear. But what I would like to prepare for is the unexpexted night in the wilderness when all I have is my multi-tool which I carry on me at all times.

[Sarge47]

You had to go to the wilderness to learn that? Seems a bit of common sense would have done just as well.

Are we throwing the keys to the car at a kid and aiming him at the freeway now?

There are a lot of things that need to be done BEFORE you go to the wilderness. The people that did not learn before they went to the woods are the ones we read about in the SAR stories.

Not all survival skills are restricted to wilderness use either.

You need to know water purification skills, firebuilding skills and at least minimal shelter building skills before you go on a hike through the local park.

You have a three minute air loss window
three hour shelter window
three day water limit

That is required for survival in the wilderness, the suburbs of Seattle or the concrete of NY City.
Ky, I like a lot of what you say, too bad the system won't let me give you anymore rep for awhile. However, I don't think anybody is suggesting to throw a newbie into the Wilderness all alone. They should go with experienced hands to learn 1st hand how it's done...unless they're a forum Troll of course. :laugh:

[Rick]

But what I would like to prepare for is the unexpexted night in the wilderness when all I have is my multi-tool which I carry on me at all times.

I think that's ultimately what we all strive for. Do more with less.

[Sparky93]

I just was done bein sick, I'm about to lose my mind stayin cooped up inside:drool:

[Camp10]

before anything else, a beginner needs to know how to control their own emotions and take a few minutes to absorb what may be happening. Step one is to be honest with yourself and admit you are in a survival situation.

Fire, water purification, shelter and basic medical are next and the order might depend on the situation.

[Sparky93]

before anything else, a beginner needs to know how to control their own emotions and take a few minutes to absorb what may be happening. Step one is to be honest with yourself and admit you are in a survival situation.

Fire, water purification, shelter and basic medical are next and the order might depend on the situation.

I like this advice. I've read in books and seen on TV that people end up getting themselves more lost than they already were by panicing causing them to get more disoriantated and more lost.

[crashdive123]

I like this advice. I've read in books and seen on TV that people end up getting themselves more lost than they already were by panicing causing them to get more disoriantated and more lost.

Since you seem to like acronyms - think S.T.O.P. (sit, think, observe, plan)

[Sarge47]

Since you seem to like acronyms - think S.T.O.P. (sit, think, observe, plan)
There ya go! +1! :thumbs_up: :thumbs_up: :thumbs_up:

[hunter63]

A lot of people like lists and organization, and that is a valuable skill.
Most situations that may find you in survival mode is because you didn't plan for THAT particular situation.
That is why mind set, and inventiveness is important as lists.

My gear increases in size and number, because what I had on my list to start with, didn't cover what has happened Now.

I do like your acronym, alot of people use them, and is very helpful.

[LowKey]

I'm more for the pre-survival list of things you should check off.

1. Map and compass reading. If you take them with you and use them, you aren't likely to get too lost. The time to take out the compass is before you leave camp, not after you're lost. Check maps of the area you are going into before you even leave the house.

2. First aid. And not disaster first aid. Learn the basics for cuts scrapes, sprains, broken bones, what to do if you get one of your flyhooks stuck in the web of your thumb. That stuff. And CPR. You never know when you might happen upon an older hunter having a heart attack dragging out his deer. You can get certified in a weekend.

3. It's been said here before, Know your gear and practice using your gear. And I'll add, don't keep all your gear in your pack. Like you said, you may end up with just your multitool. I keep an energy bar stashed in one of my pockets, the flashlight is on my belt, etc. (not that I can get too lost the places I been hiking).

4. Identify the bad plants first. Whatever your local version of poison ivy and other nasties that'll sting or raise welts. Insects too. Then worry about the ones you can eat.

5. In the meantime, practice your water/shelter/fire/food.

And don't stop practicing after you've ticked off a skill on your list. Keep practicing.

[Sparky93]

Okay another question, I have my trusty Gerber Suspension multi tool (not purchased in any way shape of form do to Bear Grills) and a plethera of small pocket knives, but I need a good fixed blade knife my criterta is 4"-5" drop point blade and I would like to keep the cost under $50. Any sugestions?

This kinda what I'm thinkin (Click the picture and it will get larger)
6758

[Sarge47]

Okay another question, I have my trusty Gerber Suspension multi tool (not purchased in any way shape of form do to Bear Grills) and a plethera of small pocket knives, but I need a good fixed blade knife my criterta is 4"-5" drop point blade and I would like to keep the cost under $50. Any sugestions?

This kinda what I'm thinkin (Click the picture and it will get larger)
6758

I own one of these, the price is under $50 and free shipping to boot...can't beat that!

http://cgi.ebay.com/Buck-Vanguard-Fixed-Blade-Knife-w-Rubber-Handle-692BKS-/200625567261?pt=Collectible_Knives&hash=item2eb637361d

[Winter]

Ouch Sarge, hollow ground stainless hurts my soul.

Sparky, try out Ontario Knife Co and Condor knives and tools.

[Sparky93]

I think this may be just what I'm lookin for
Condor Tools & Knives Bushlore with a 4 5/16" drop point blade msrp $39.98
6759

[Sparky93]

$32.99 on knife-depot.com
http://www.knife-depot.com/knife-301083.html

[Sparky93]

Better yet!!
knife-depot.com + shipping = $38.24
knifecenter.com + shipping = $35.85
smkw.com + shipping = $33.97
Total Savings = $4.27
A shiny new knife = Priceless

[Winter]

hahaha, nice. Nothing like a S. American machete maker getting into the knife business.

I've been eyeballin' their boomslang knife and some of the axes.

[Sparky93]

I just got through watchin the 7 part youtube series by Dave Canterbury on building a cheap bushcraft kit, and found it very informitive for a starter kit for the beginer to build off of. Heres the link for the first video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAPNtca7RGQ&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

[crashdive123]

For cheap kits (not necessarily just for bushcraft) this thread might give you some ideas. http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?4953-Preparedness-on-a-budget.&p=87734

[Rick]

Nice job, Lowkey. I agree with keeping stuff on your person.

Sparky - Here's my survival kit that I keep in my pocket just in case. It doesn't take up a lot of room.

http://i348.photobucket.com/albums/q348/safe_zone/survivalkit.jpg

[Sparky93]

Kershaw Onion, awesome knife cheap, super light and razor sharp.

[Sparky93]

I got on of those little lights layin around here somewhere, hmmm...
It's just a matter of finden it in my "collection"

[Rick]

I'm pretty pleased with it. I have a couple of long knives I carry, one of which is full tang, but if you lose your pack when the canoe dumps or gremlins make off with it during the night then anything is better than nothing. At least it's nice sized when open and you can work with it.

[Sparky93]

Yah my uncle is a knife weight freak and he bought five Kershaw Onions so he can have use them in a slightly more disposable manner

[Sparky93]

So I just learned somethin, I want to make sure that I order the 2011 version of the condor bushlore and not one the older versions. In the new model the grind stops at the handle where in the old model the grind start an inch from the handle, also the blade on the 2011 model is 1/8" thick where the old one was 1/4" thick. They both have the same name, they just made some design changes on the newer model.

Now since the blade is 1075 carbon steel I have read that I will need to oil the blade, what kind of oil is best for this?

[Winter]

I use cooking oil. That way I don't poison myself when I use the knife for food prep.

[Jpfree]

Sparky I'm probably not the most experienced camper on here by any means but one thing I always, ALWAYS make sure to have on me out in the wilderness is a weather radio. There's nothing more dangerous when you're out there cut off from communication than a freak storm or flash flood or something. Try and stick with something durable and solar powered.

[Rick]

Cooking oil can go rancid if you don't use your knife for some time. I'm sure Winter doesn't let his set that long, though. I recommend you use food grade mineral oil as a first choice or even petroleum jelly. Neither will go bad and neither will taint your food if you choose to use your knife in its preparation. Both will keep water away from the metal and prevent rust. Just remember that too much oil will collect dirt, dust and lint all of which can attract and hold moisture. You only need a thin layer to cover the surface of the metal.

If you carry petroleum soaked cotton balls you not only have a fire starter but you have a medicinal remedy for chafes, chapped lips and hot spots as well as a great lubricant for your knife.

[Sparky93]

Cooking oil can go rancid if you don't use your knife for some time. I'm sure Winter doesn't let his set that long, though. I recommend you use food grade mineral oil as a first choice or even petroleum jelly. Neither will go bad and neither will taint your food if you choose to use your knife in its preparation. Both will keep water away from the metal and prevent rust. Just remember that too much oil will collect dirt, dust and lint all of which can attract and hold moisture. You only need a thin layer to cover the surface of the metal.

If you carry petroleum soaked cotton balls you not only have a fire starter but you have a medicinal remedy for chafes, chapped lips and hot spots as well as a great lubricant for your knife.

Petroleum jelly sound like one of those good, multi-use items to have in your kit.

[Sparky93]

Sparky,

Totally out of line for me to say this, and I am not an administrator nor have any authority on this forum at all. With the greatest respect, I say that I enjoy your posts and am super glad your here. However, I must admit that (although the avatars are different) I find myself constantly confusing your posts and an old time forum member called Sarky. If I could magically make a change, I would at least put a number after you handle. Again, this is no reflection on you kind sir and again - I have no standing on this forum at all and just my personal thoughts.

I completely agree, if I knew how I would place a number behind my name maybe Rick or Crash can change my screen name Sparky93 or somethin.

[Sparky93]

You kind sir - are a gentlement and extremely fast on the keyboard :) I have no doubt Rick/Crash will accommodate your desire. I am passing along some rep your way.

Thats the first time I've ever been called fast on the keyboard, I use the two finger hunt and search method :)

[crashdive123]

I do not have access to change your screen name, but Rick does. I'm sure he'll see this thread, but you may want to shoot him a pm.

[Sparky93]

I do not have access to change your screen name, but Rick does. I'm sure he'll see this thread, but you may want to shoot him a pm.

Thanks, I'll do that.

[Sparky93]

Ok, so heres my kit list so far.

Tools
____________
Knife
Multitool
Folding Saw
Small Camp Axe (with a wood handle)
Multi File/Rasp (medium and fine file and rasp on the same tool)

Fire Kit
____________
Storage Tin
Ferro Rod
Petroleum Jelly
Cotton Balls

Misc. Items
____________
Army Surplus Wool Blanket (preferably 100% not 80/20)
Two Bungee Cords
50' of Nylon Rope (1/2" in diameter???)
12'x8' Tarp
Stainless Steel Coffe Cup
Metal Water Canteen
Fork & Spoon
Head Lamp

Food Kit
____________
50' of 10x Spiderwire Fishing Line
Small Worm Hooks
Large Worm Hooks
Split Shot
Snare Wire

Hygiene Kit
____________
Tooth Bush
Tooth Paste
Dental Floss
Small Mirror
Hand Sanitizer

I want this kit to kind of be a multi purpose survival/primitive camping kit. All this stuff Would be rolled up into the wool blanket in a bedroll. Does anybody have anything to add that I have missed?

[kyratshooter]

Only two sugestions:

1. I would include a billy of some kind for cooking as well as you stainless cup. You can pack other stuff inside so it does not take up much room.

2. Hoppis straps. These allow you to tie up the blanket roll and sling it as a tump line or as a pack. they do not have to be leather like the ones shown. Webbing and 550 cord works fine.

http://www.colonialmarket.com/casada/tumplines.html

Here is a short list of supplies for the Lewis and Clark expidition, not that you will need that much gear, but if you scroll down to the end it has leather for hoppis straps for tying the blankets/sheepskins into packs.

The list is also a good reminder of what they though necessary for excursion into true wilderness. When you look at the list pay special attention to quantities of 15-30. The final group that went to the west coast was 15 men. 15 items or 30 items would have provided one each or two each.

[Rick]

I guess everyone will have their opinion and by the time you get done it will weigh in at 12 tons. That said, Toilet Paper and a BIC lighter. Me loves my TP in the woods. Once you "finalize" your pack then go out and use it. See what you have that you don't need or don't like and see what you needed that you don't have. Keep doing that a few times and you'll have a pack that is right for you.

[hunter63]

Only two sugestions:

1. I would include a billy of some kind for cooking as well as you stainless cup. You can pack other stuff inside so it does not take up much room.

2. Hoppis straps. These allow you to tie up the blanket roll and sling it as a tump line or as a pack. they do not have to be leather like the ones shown. Webbing and 550 cord works fine.

http://www.colonialmarket.com/casada/tumplines.html

Here is a short list of supplies for the Lewis and Clark expidition, not that you will need that much gear, but if you scroll down to the end it has leather for hoppis straps for tying the blankets/sheepskins into packs.

The list is also a good reminder of what they though necessary for excursion into true wilderness. When you look at the list pay special attention to quantities of 15-30. The final group that went to the west coast was 15 men. 15 items or 30 items would have provided one each or two each.

I'm not seeing a lsit?
Cool site on haversacks and such, thanks

[Sparky93]

Today I went out in the woods behind my house (we own 40 acres out in the country) and started setting up a test camp. I scouted out a good location close to a creek, made a fire pit and made a frame for a tarp to go on for a lean-to shelter. I got my fire goin first to keep the skeeters down while I worked. Tomorrow my to do list is to string up my tarp, make a raised bed, and enclose the ends of the shelter. I plan to use this as a base camp to test my pack.

Rick- Great sugestion, I thought about that while I was out workin on my camp

kyrat- The bungee cords in my list are attended to hold my roll together and I can get two for two dollars and save some money for other gear. As for the billy, good sugestion I will add that to my kit.

I still need to come up with a small first aid kit though.

[Sparky93]

First Aid Kit
____________
Storage Tin
Roll of Gauze
Butterfly Band Aids
Neosporene
Sterile Pads
Super Glue

Any sugestions on other essential first aid items?

[crashdive123]

If you are going to carry super glue, make sure it is medical grade (Dermabond). Plain ole super glue can severely damage skin tissue.

[Sparky93]

If you are going to carry super glue, make sure it is medical grade (Dermabond). Plain ole super glue can severely damage skin tissue.

yah I'll definitely carry medical grade, my dad team ropes and got his pinky finger pinched off in a dally. We were all suprised he didn't try to super glue it back on and keep roping.

*Team roping is when two people rope a cow on horseback
*A dally is when you tie the rope to the saddle horn

[Winter]

That's an awesome list.

I don't carry most of it. I knife, a bidder knife, a saw, socks, and food. I'm usually within 3 miles of my home though.

[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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