Weapons for someone now allowed to own them. What would you go for?

[Commander Krill]

May be moving to USA next year, so I'm curious what people would go for.

I'm pretty set on a Sig P229 for self defense around the home and maybe an AR15.
Should I go for .223 REM in the AR15? Or 308?

I've been told aswell that a Remington 700 in 30/06 is a great weapon for big game hunting aswell.

Thanks in advance,

Krill.

[glockcop]

As a bare minimum for a "well ballanced collection" One should have a .22 rifle, .22 handgun, 12 guage shotgun, .38/357mag, 30-06 rifle. Anything can be substituted but this is a good all around group of weapons that can handle small to big game, self defense, and practice/training. By all means throw in that Sig 229. It won't replace the .38/.357 but it will suffice. It's a FANTASTIC weapon in it's own right. But remember, revolvers are easier to learn with for a novice, can handle just about any hangun need, and are very versitile. An AR in .308 could replace the 30-06 in my initial list but .223 is cheaper to shoot. Just my take on things. YMMV.

[Nutman]

Glocop tould you the basics it's really a matter what you are comfortable with and can aford a good 22 and shotgun IMOA is a must

[Sarge47]

As a bare minimum for a "well ballanced collection" One should have a .22 rifle, .22 handgun, 12 guage shotgun, .38/357mag, 30-06 rifle. Anything can be substituted but this is a good all around group of weapons that can handle small to big game, self defense, and practice/training. By all means throw in that Sig 229. It won't replace the .38/.357 but it will suffice. It's a FANTASTIC weapon in it's own right. But remember, revolvers are easier to learn with for a novice, can handle just about any hangun need, and are very versitile. An AR in .308 could replace the 30-06 in my initial list but .223 is cheaper to shoot. Just my take on things. YMMV.
This is my list of firearms, based on the above, that you can get that are very reliable & won't break you:

1.) .22 rifle...Ruger 10/22

2.) .22 pistol...Ruger Mark III Standard

3.) 12. Gauge Shotgun...You'll have to decide which type & model, I use a Rossi single barrel in .20 gauge.

4.) 38/357 pistol...Ruger of course, revolver.

5.) Ruger Mini Ranch 14; .223 if your on an ammo budget, or the 7.65 mm if you got the cash.

Of course you're about to find out what kind of can of worms you just opened as everybody on here has there opinions. :goof:

[glockcop]

Glocop tould you the basics it's really a matter what you are comfortable with and can aford a good 22 and shotgun IMOA is a must

I do not understand this reply. I got the ''comfortable'' and '' can afford'' part but the beginning lost me. My point here is that my minimalistic list covers all the basic needs someone could ask of a collection of firearms. But for example if you don't big game hunt, I guess you don't need an 30-06. The OP asked ''what would you go for?'', and that list is "what I would go for" as a minimum. YMMV.

[Sourdough]

Interesting that the original poster asked the question the way that he did. It is as if he feels he is moving to Somalia. Firearms are nice, and firearms are part of the American culture and Psyche. But clearly many Americans get by without them.

I am more interested in why you would consider moving to a Country that you feel you need to be armed 24/7/365. Hell if I felt like that I would leave America.

[glockcop]

Interesting that the original poster asked the question the way that he did. It is as if he feels he is moving to Somalia. Firearms are nice, and firearms are part of the American culture and Psyche. But clearly many Americans get by without them.

I am more interested in why you would consider moving to a Country that you feel you need to be armed 24/7/365. Hell if I felt like that I would leave America.

I'm sure our British friend has had to deal with his fair share of crime too. The UK has horrible knife related violent crime statistics because guns are restricted there. He is now looking to move to a place where he can acquire the proper tools to protect himself from criminals instead of being at their mercy. I can see his logic. Violent crime happens in every country across the globe. There are two sayings that fit here. "Armed people are citizens, unarmed people are subjects" and "Dictators prefer an unarmed populace". On the other side of the coin, you are correct in saying that plenty of Americans get by just fine unarmed.....I just won't be one of them when the alternative is our right. Good point though Sour.

[hunter63]

This is my list of firearms, based on the above, that you can get that are very reliable & won't break you:

1.) .22 rifle...Ruger 10/22

2.) .22 pistol...Ruger Mark III Standard

3.) 12. Gauge Shotgun...You'll have to decide which type & model, I use a Rossi single barrel in .20 gauge. (Remington or Mossberg pump, my choice)

4.) 38/357 pistol...Ruger of course, revolver.

5.) Ruger Mini Ranch 14; .223 if your on an ammo budget, or the 7.65 mm if you got the cash.

Of course you're about to find out what kind of can of worms you just opened as everybody on here has there opinions. :goof:

For the sake of redundence, I am in complete agreement with you right up to the Ruger 14.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a Ruger guy, but this one seems to be a solution looking for a problem.
Over priced, assessories expensive, won't interchange in different year production runs, .223 rather low power unless it small......
That said, Sub in the Ruger M77 in .30-06 or .308 for the Mini 14, and your covered.

One your basics are covered, then add in the AR .223 and auto loader hand gun, in what ever cal. floats your boat.
Both are pretty much self defence assets, not much other use, IMHO

[kyratshooter]

Wow!

A new thread for us stuborn and opinionated geezers based on what WE want and not the capabilities of the shooter in question!

You can leave off the .22 pistol. It will be the least used item in the inventory right behind the Mini14. I am a continuious shooter and have not owned a .22 pistol for two decades. Don't use one, don't need one. I have also found no need for an assualt rifle since I turned in my M16 to the arms room for the last time back in '74. Leaving off those two items just saved $1500 on your battery.

Pistols are defensive items and .22 is inadequite for defense. .22 pistols are also not accurate enough in the hands of a novice shooter to take small game.

centerfire hunting rifle
.22 rifle
shotgun
.38/357 pistol

Those are the basics.

Contrary to popular survival forum myth, we do not have to fight our way to the grocery store using assualt rifles every day. When the time comes for you to need one there will be plenty lying around on the ground.

The first thing to buy will be the 10/22, then you need to sign up for an Apple Seed Course. It is some of the best basic marksmanship training you will find. Untrained people are as much a hazard to themselves as they are to the population in general.

You also failed to state which part of our country you are moving too. That will make a difference in what you will be allowed to purchase and what will be practical.

Also keep in mind that you will have to sell all your hardware when you go home. Buy items you can get a quick turnaround on. Leave off the exotic and expensive additions. If you choose properly you can buy and use the guns while here, then recover your money on the sale if you stay long enough for inflation to catch up with you.

[Curt]

Wow!

A new thread for us stuborn and opinionated geezers based on what WE want and not the capabilities of the shooter in question!

Good point!! Krill was also very vague on what he needed. Something for defense around the house and I guess a 30/06 is good for big game hunting. Does he want something for big game hunting?, what big game will he be hunting? Depending on what (if) he will be big game hunting, he may be able to get by on a simple 12g pump with interchangeable barrels.

[glockcop]

Wow!

A new thread for us stuborn and opinionated geezers based on what WE want and not the capabilities of the shooter in question!

You can leave off the .22 pistol. It will be the least used item in the inventory right behind the Mini14. I am a continuious shooter and have not owned a .22 pistol for two decades. Don't use one, don't need one. I have also found no need for an assualt rifle since I turned in my M16 to the arms room for the last time back in '74. Leaving off those two items just saved $1500 on your battery.

Pistols are defensive items and .22 is inadequite for defense. .22 pistols are also not accurate enough in the hands of a novice shooter to take small game.

centerfire hunting rifle
.22 rifle
shotgun
.38/357 pistol

Those are the basics.

Contrary to popular survival forum myth, we do not have to fight our way to the grocery store using assualt rifles every day. When the time comes for you to need one there will be plenty lying around on the ground.

The first thing to buy will be the 10/22, then you need to sign up for an Apple Seed Course. It is some of the best basic marksmanship training you will find. Untrained people are as much a hazard to themselves as they are to the population in general.

You also failed to state which part of our country you are moving too. That will make a difference in what you will be allowed to purchase and what will be practical.

Also keep in mind that you will have to sell all your hardware when you go home. Buy items you can get a quick turnaround on. Leave off the exotic and expensive additions. If you choose properly you can buy and use the guns while here, then recover your money on the sale if you stay long enough for inflation to catch up with you.

Not to nit pick but I heavily disagree with Kyratshooter on this one. I'm sure he has his good reasons for his view but IMO having a .22 pistol is a GREAT ASSET to defensive pistol practice/training. It is a REQUIREMENT in a basic battery for mostly everyone that wants to get proficient with a pistol but doesn't have a rich uncle to foot the ammo bill. Proficient pistolry is not a born in talent. It is an acquired skill that takes practice with the building of muscle memory to take over in that time of need. And just how is a novice shooter supposed to get good enough to take game with a pistol unless they practice ALOT with a pistol. Therefore IMO a .22 pistol is good for defensive practice and hunting practice. Alas, we all have our opinions but common sense takes front and center in any gun topic.

[Sarge47]

You can leave off the .22 pistol. It will be the least used item in the inventory right behind the Mini14. I am a continuious shooter and have not owned a .22 pistol for two decades. Don't use one, don't need one. I have also found no need for an assualt rifle since I turned in my M16 to the arms room for the last time back in '74. Leaving off those two items just saved $1500 on your battery.
I disagree, KY, I can pick up a Mini Ranch 14 for a little over $600 at a nearby Wally World. However, I live in a state where a center-fire weapon cannot be legally used for hunting, just shotgun, black-powder, or bow. We DO have a lot of Coyotes, though. For the record, I do not consider a Mini 14 to be an assault rifle, but in a pinch will probably be just as good, as a hunting rifle, especially with the 7.65 cartridge.. You're dead on about what part of the country he'll be moving to. And I LIKE my .22 pistol, I kill a lot of raccoons with it. The 38/357, or even a 1911-.45 cal., (Ruger's got a cool looking one.) can do the job for defense, like you said, and the stores around here, well...just sayin', they get pretty rough! :creepy:

[crashdive123]

Commander Krill - I hope your trip and move go well. There is plenty of time to find out what you like best and follow that route. One thing I will say though - based on post #12 - I sure hope you are not considering moving to Illinois.

[shiftyer1]

I don't think a .22 pistol is a necessary purchase, it is the most affordable to shoot and it makes for alot of fun. My .22 pistols get shot the most out of my collection.

[Rick]

You guys slay me. I've had quite a chuckle out of this one. My only question is what is the best survival knife?

CK - I suspect you've got a case of letting the kid loose in the candy store. You can't have them where you are so once you get here the skies the limit.

First, decide on what you want your weapons for. What job do you want them to perform.

Next, check the state where you intend to move and determine what restrictions might exist if any. If you plan to conceal carry then know the restrictions for that (most states do have them) and which states recognize your permit and which states do not. That's important information.

Once you know what you want your weapons to do then stop by a gun shop. Many will allow you to rent various weapons to try out. Find out what feels good in your hand, then price the weapon and the ammo so you can get a feel for what it will cost you both for ownership and to practice with. You'll also want to find out how much range time costs if you won't have access to a free range or location to practice. Indoor ranges, as a rule, will not allow the use of high powered ammo such as 30.06 or shotgun except slugs. Each range varies of course so you will want to look around.

Finally, you'll wind up with what you want regardless of what you are going to do with them. I've bought because...well, just because...and I've bought with a specific purpose in mind and I've bought just because some weapon looked at me with sad looking ejectors and wagged it's sling. I've got a soft heart so I just had to bring it home. Don't tell my wife, though.

[Sarge47]

You guys slay me. I've had quite a chuckle out of this one. My only question is what is the best survival knife?

CK - I suspect you've got a case of letting the kid loose in the candy store. You can't have them where you are so once you get here the skies the limit.

First, decide on what you want your weapons for. What job do you want them to perform.

Next, check the state where you intend to move and determine what restrictions might exist if any. If you plan to conceal carry then know the restrictions for that (most states do have them) and which states recognize your permit and which states do not. That's important information.

Once you know what you want your weapons to do then stop by a gun shop. Many will allow you to rent various weapons to try out. Find out what feels good in your hand, then price the weapon and the ammo so you can get a feel for what it will cost you both for ownership and to practice with. You'll also want to find out how much range time costs if you won't have access to a free range or location to practice. Indoor ranges, as a rule, will not allow the use of high powered ammo such as 30.06 or shotgun except slugs. Each range varies of course so you will want to look around.

Finally, you'll wind up with what you want regardless of what you are going to do with them. I've bought because...well, just because...and I've bought with a specific purpose in mind and I've bought just because some weapon looked at me with sad looking ejectors and wagged it's sling. I've got a soft heart so I just had to bring it home. Don't tell my wife, though.
So what IS the best survival knife? :confused1: :sneaky2: :innocent:

[Rick]

I asked first.

[Commander Krill]

I'm sure our British friend has had to deal with his fair share of crime too. The UK has horrible knife related violent crime statistics because guns are restricted there. He is now looking to move to a place where he can acquire the proper tools to protect himself from criminals instead of being at their mercy. I can see his logic. Violent crime happens in every country across the globe. There are two sayings that fit here. "Armed people are citizens, unarmed people are subjects" and "Dictators prefer an unarmed populace". On the other side of the coin, you are correct in saying that plenty of Americans get by just fine unarmed.....I just won't be one of them when the alternative is our right. Good point though Sour.

Yes I've had plenty of run-ins with knife crime and it sucks :P

But for the people wondering why I want them... Civil unrest is probably going to follow all SHTF scenarios. Whether that be a natural disaster, economic crash, civil war, you name it, if there are hard times like that and people band together to survive and end up looting, then I want to make sure there is something between me and them that can either disolve the situation as soon as they see me as a threat or eliminate the threat if they attack me.

For the rifle, deer mostly.

[hunter63]

I gonna guess that for someone that hasn't been able to have firearms, this is kinda a "Kid in a Candy store scenario, and sound like you have already given it some thought.........
My advice would be to go for what you want, for starters, then add what ever your wallet and any other uses you might need to address.

Most advice given here is gonna mostly a mix of hunting, forging, self protection,......from multi firearm personnel in a "cover all your bases" angle.
And of course personal preferences will influence the answers.

Welcome aboard and have fun...........

[2dumb2kwit]

What the.....did I miss it, or has no one suggested a lever action 30-30? LOL

(Or even a lever action/revolver combo.(.38/.357, .44, 45lc):innocent:

[Rick]

Yeah, and no one mentioned a Mosin, either. (sniff)

[kyratshooter]

OK, I have been right about the content and direction of the thread, why should anyone think I was wrong about weapons choices?

You guys are making sugestions based on your needs for coyote killing and prayers for the comming apocilipse. If the OP happens to arrive in Chicago, Indiannia, Ohio he will be restricted to shotgun/black powder or possibley pistol cartridges for deer hunting.

Every time I bring up the uselessness of a .22 pistol someone uses the "training use" senerio. Training with a .22 pistol is like auto-erotic stimulation. It is not practice for the real thing. You may have the same sight picture but your trigger pull and recoil are not fooling anyone.

[Sarge47]

You guys are making sugestions based on your needs for coyote killing and prayers for the comming apocilipse. If the OP happens to arrive in Chicago, Indiannia, Ohio he will be restricted to shotgun/black powder or possibley pistol cartridges for deer hunting.

Every time I bring up the uselessness of a .22 pistol someone uses the "training use" senerio. Training with a .22 pistol is like auto-erotic stimulation. It is not practice for the real thing. You may have the same sight picture but your trigger pull and recoil are not fooling anyone.
1st, add Iowa to that list, if they haven't changed their laws since I lived there. Also, I've taken lots of small game with my .22 pistol, not to mention snakes! I like mine & plan on keeping it. Ammo cost was another reason that was brought up as well. Just sayin'... :sneaky2:

[glockcop]

OK, I have been right about the content and direction of the thread, why should anyone think I was wrong about weapons choices?

You guys are making sugestions based on your needs for coyote killing and prayers for the comming apocilipse. If the OP happens to arrive in Chicago, Indiannia, Ohio he will be restricted to shotgun/black powder or possibley pistol cartridges for deer hunting.

Every time I bring up the uselessness of a .22 pistol someone uses the "training use" senerio. Training with a .22 pistol is like auto-erotic stimulation. It is not practice for the real thing. You may have the same sight picture but your trigger pull and recoil are not fooling anyone.

Obviously your mind is set on not having a .22 pistol and believe me I'm not trying to sway you. But think about this. There are .22 conversions for Glocks, Sigs, 1911's, and others. Those conversions use your original frame which houses your original trigger group and controls. It's all about building muscle memory and weapon familiarity. There are also full scale dedicated .22's which replicate full scale centerfire pistols (aka S&W 617, Walther, and others). They harness the same benifits. No one can dismiss the fact that any "trigger time" is benificial. To suggest to the contrary would be foolish. No a .22 does not recoil like your .38 or .45 but it's still "trigger time" with a familiar platform which brings us back to muscle memory and weapon familiarity. This suggestion is far from based on "MY" needs. It is a realistic approach to giving a novice all the trigger time and experience he can handle with the benefit of dirt cheap ammo. Militaries globally take the same approach in training with .22's. IMO their logic is sound. Do you suggest that someone who is eager to learn but not ''floating in money'' just sit on their couch and admire their new centerfire pistol instead of actually fireing it or something exactly like it ALOT? I sure hope not. Now lets talk about a .22 pistol's usefulness in the field. With a little trigger time a novice can very quickly gain the skills to take small game. I've seen it personally many times with just a little guidance. I personally use my Ruger Single Six around my property and in the field ALOT on targets of opportunity and vermin to great effect. I have little desire to ATTEMPT to eat a squirell or rabbit taken with my Glock .40 or .357 mag. The .22 pistol does not spook every animal in the county/parish (like my neighbor's cattle) with it's mild report but is very good for ridding the property of duck killing raccoons and ''yeller'' dogs. I have killed just about everything that processes oxygen in Louisiana with a .22 pistol at one time or another. I, like most everyone else, would call that a highly useful tool which has earned it's place. As far as legalities go, there are not many places that actually restrict .22 ownership so we can take that concern right out to the trash. The bottom line is your disinterest in .22 pistols does not dilute there utility one bit but I respect your stance on the subject.

[Curt]

But for the people wondering why I want them... Civil unrest is probably going to follow all SHTF scenarios. Whether that be a natural disaster, economic crash, civil war, you name it, if there are hard times like that and people band together to survive and end up looting, then I want to make sure there is something between me and them that can either disolve the situation as soon as they see me as a threat or eliminate the threat if they attack me.

For the rifle, deer mostly.

We have a lot of opinions here and a many lists with lots of weapons. My personal thought is that if you are planning for a SHTF situation, you will likely want to limit the number of weapons to one or two, unless you have a secure location to hide out at. As I mentioned before, a 12g shotgun with interchangeable barrels is an extremely useful multi-purpose weapon, fulfilling both a self-defense and hunting role (big and small game), unless you will find yourself out west where the distance to big game precludes the use of a shotgun. But like the rest of the posts, this is simply an opinion, and a humble one at that

[crashdive123]

I guess I'm in agreement with Sourdough. If you truly feel that these events are about to unfold in the United States, why would you consider moving here?

[rwc1969]

May be moving to USA next year, so I'm curious what people would go for.

I'm pretty set on a Sig P229 for self defense around the home and maybe an AR15.
Should I go for .223 REM in the AR15? Or 308?

I've been told aswell that a Remington 700 in 30/06 is a great weapon for big game hunting aswell.

Thanks in advance,

Krill.

There ain't nothin' a God fearin' country boy cain't do with a good reliable shotgun and a .22LR. You may want to pick up some Beechnut and a .45 just in case.

[Rick]

And a Hank William's CD (Jr. or Sr. Doesn't matter.)

[Sarge47]

And a Hank William's CD (Jr. or Sr. Doesn't matter.)
And a case of Bud...just sayin'! :sneaky2: :innocent: :cool2:

[kyratshooter]

Obviously your mind is set on not having a .22 pistol and believe me I'm not trying to sway you. But think about this. There are .22 conversions for Glocks, Sigs, 1911's, and others. Those conversions use your original frame which houses your original trigger group and controls. It's all about building muscle memory and weapon familiarity. There are also full scale dedicated .22's which replicate full scale centerfire pistols (aka S&W 617, Walther, and others). They harness the same benifits. No one can dismiss the fact that any "trigger time" is benificial. To suggest to the contrary would be foolish. No a .22 does not recoil like your .38 or .45 but it's still "trigger time" with a familiar platform which brings us back to muscle memory and weapon familiarity. This suggestion is far from based on "MY" needs. It is a realistic approach to giving a novice all the trigger time and experience he can handle with the benefit of dirt cheap ammo. Militaries globally take the same approach in training with .22's. IMO their logic is sound. Do you suggest that someone who is eager to learn but not ''floating in money'' just sit on their couch and admire their new centerfire pistol instead of actually fireing it or something exactly like it ALOT? I sure hope not. Now lets talk about a .22 pistol's usefulness in the field. With a little trigger time a novice can very quickly gain the skills to take small game. I've seen it personally many times with just a little guidance. I personally use my Ruger Single Six around my property and in the field ALOT on targets of opportunity and vermin to great effect. I have little desire to ATTEMPT to eat a squirell or rabbit taken with my Glock .40 or .357 mag. The .22 pistol does not spook every animal in the county/parish (like my neighbor's cattle) with it's mild report but is very good for ridding the property of duck killing raccoons and ''yeller'' dogs. I have killed just about everything that processes oxygen in Louisiana with a .22 pistol at one time or another. I, like most everyone else, would call that a highly useful tool which has earned it's place. As far as legalities go, there are not many places that actually restrict .22 ownership so we can take that concern right out to the trash. The bottom line is your disinterest in .22 pistols does not dilute there utility one bit but I respect your stance on the subject.

Actually, I just post crap like this to get you guys to thinking about things. Usually it works, to the limitations available.

The reason I don't own a .22 pistol is because I have been reloading and casting my own slugs for 40 years and I can shoot centerfire cheaper than .22. As far as being overpowered, that is up to the reloader. It is also one of the advantages a wheelgun has over an autoloader.

Anything a .22 will do one of my centerfires will do better, and I just don't need one.

[Rick]

Yeah, you never know when you'll want to cook something. (that's all Bud is good for)

[LowKey]

I wanna know if our new British ex-pat here has looked into how long he has to be here, and what type of resident card and FID he has to have in order to purchase a weapon in the US state he plans to live in...?
Certainly don't move to Massachusetts. No FID for resident aliens. Today.
http://www.comm2a.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=69:fletchervhaas&catid=7:miscellaneous-&Itemid=36

[BENESSE]

...but somehow it doesn't sit right when someone moving to our country (not Rawanda, btw) is interested in getting a weapons arsenal before even setting foot here. (from what we know so far)
Just seems in bad taste.

[glockcop]

Actually, I just post crap like this to get you guys to thinking about things. Usually it works, to the limitations available.

The reason I don't own a .22 pistol is because I have been reloading and casting my own slugs for 40 years and I can shoot centerfire cheaper than .22. As far as being overpowered, that is up to the reloader. It is also one of the advantages a wheelgun has over an autoloader.

Anything a .22 will do one of my centerfires will do better, and I just don't need one.

Well that makes a whole lot more sense to me now. I was under the impression that you thought a .22 pistol was "useless" because you said, (quote)"everytime I bring up the uselessness of a .22 pistol someone bring up the 'training use' senario....". In 1974 the NFL "moved the goal post" too. Believe me, I have thought long and hard on the subject of getting a novice shooter up to snuff. Over the years there have been those few recruits that have a terrible time learning proper form and weapon handling due to flich from the "boom and push". 22 lr pistols and rifles work wonders in short order to break the phobia. That is truely amazing that you can reload centerfire rounds cheaper than the 4-5 cents per round cost of .22 LR. I have not come that close by far in my limited reloading adventures. Even with a downloaded .38 to about 4-500fps, I'll still take my .22 for small game so as to not spoil as much meat on these lil critters and keep a flatter trajectory on top of that. Hey, to each his own.

[Sarge47]

Actually, I just post crap like this to get you guys to thinking about things. Usually it works, to the limitations available.

The reason I don't own a .22 pistol is because I have been reloading and casting my own slugs for 40 years and I can shoot centerfire cheaper than .22. As far as being overpowered, that is up to the reloader. It is also one of the advantages a wheelgun has over an autoloader.

Anything a .22 will do one of my centerfires will do better, and I just don't need one.
That makes sense! However, since I don't own ANY centerfire weapons other than a .20 ga., I'll have to stick to my .22s.

[kyratshooter]

Even with a downloaded .38 to about 4-500fps, I'll still take my .22 for small game so as to not spoil as much meat on these lil critters and keep a flatter trajectory on top of that. Hey, to each his own.

When you hit a small critter with a hard cast .38 slug it just pokes a hole straight through with no more damage than a .22 lr. I have harvested several rabbits/squirrels that decided to commit suecide in front of my .38s. I do not go looking for them but if they show up I am happy to make supper out of them.

I can not remember the last time I went out hunting with a pistol, or if I ever have. In my mind pistols are defensive tools, even in the hunting field. If I am carrying a .22 rifle while hunting I am carrying a pistol for defense against dangerous game or humans. If I am in defense mode I want something bigger than .22, so I never carry one, never shoot one and have no need to own one. I guess that makes me wierd.

Flat trajectory means nothing at 25 yards, which is the limit of pistol usefullness to the honest shooter, and probably why factory fixed sites are set for 25 yards. The ranges I shoot on the metal silouette range I would never attempt to shoot in real life.

[glockcop]

When you hit a small critter with a hard cast .38 slug it just pokes a hole straight through with no more damage than a .22 lr. I have harvested several rabbits/squirrels that decided to commit suecide in front of my .38s. I do not go looking for them but if they show up I am happy to make supper out of them.

I can not remember the last time I went out hunting with a pistol, or if I ever have. In my mind pistols are defensive tools, even in the hunting field. If I am carrying a .22 rifle while hunting I am carrying a pistol for defense against dangerous game or humans. If I am in defense mode I want something bigger than .22, so I never carry one, never shoot one and have no need to own one. I guess that makes me wierd.

Flat trajectory means nothing at 25 yards, which is the limit of pistol usefullness to the honest shooter, and probably why factory fixed sites are set for 25 yards. The ranges I shoot on the metal silouette range I would never attempt to shoot in real life.

Where did this arbitrary number of 25 yards come from as being the limit of usefulness to the "honest pistol shooter"? Bull splat. A few of my fellow detectives and I sometimes shoot our 25 yard qualification course at 50 yards just for fun. The loser buys the beer. My group of buddies in our youth terrorized the cotton tail populations along the river batcher with our long barrled .22 revolvers out to about 50 yards and sometimes beyond. Young eyes do help. You see, nobody told us ''coon azzes'' that we could not shoot our pistols accurately past 25 yards. So we unwittingly killed rabbits at ''unrealistic ranges'' with our .22 pistols none the wiser. Now, moving on. My math says that a down loaded 158 gr .38 special poking along at an anemic 4-500 fps when sighted in at 25 yards will be down about 5.5 inches or more at 50 yards! Can we say "Rainbow". A 40 gr .22 lr sighted in at 25 yards is only down by about .75 inches at 50 yards. The .22 mag Single Six I use will be about .3'' high at 50 yards. That is a substantial difference of nearly 5'', possibly more between the down loaded .38 and .22 lr. The shooter is flat out missing rabbits at this range because of the limitations of his down loaded ammo, not the weapon. But hey, if someone can't shoot a pistol accurately past 25 yards, I guess the drop in trajectory doesn't matter at 50. Your self imposed 25 yard limit is a safe bet with your down loaded ammo. Much further is a guessing game. Good call.

[Winnie]

I felt much as you did for some time, then I realised wherever you go there will always be an element of society determined to break the law. So, here's a novel idea. Why not do what I do and lobby your MP to get the laws regarding Firearm ownership(and use) changed. Join the Countryside Alliance, the BASC and if you have one, a local gun club. The only way we in the UK will ever get our rights back, is to fight for them.
Also, there are other ways of protecting yourself and your property if you feel the need. You just need to get inventive:shifty:

[kyratshooter]

Where did this arbitrary number of 25 yards come from as being the limit of usefulness to the "honest pistol shooter"? Bull splat. A few of my fellow detectives and I sometimes shoot our 25 yard qualification course at 50 yards just for fun. The loser buys the beer. My group of buddies in our youth terrorized the cotton tail populations along the river batcher with our long barrled .22 revolvers out to about 50 yards and sometimes beyond. Young eyes do help. You see, nobody told us ''coon azzes'' that we could not shoot our pistols accurately past 25 yards. So we unwittingly killed rabbits at ''unrealistic ranges'' with our .22 pistols none the wiser. Now, moving on. My math says that a down loaded 158 gr .38 special poking along at an anemic 4-500 fps when sighted in at 25 yards will be down about 5.5 inches or more at 50 yards! Can we say "Rainbow". A 40 gr .22 lr sighted in at 25 yards is only down by about .75 inches at 50 yards. The .22 mag Single Six I use will be about .3'' high at 50 yards. That is a substantial difference of nearly 5'', possibly more between the down loaded .38 and .22 lr. The shooter is flat out missing rabbits at this range because of the limitations of his down loaded ammo, not the weapon. But hey, if someone can't shoot a pistol accurately past 25 yards, I guess the drop in trajectory doesn't matter at 50. Your self imposed 25 yard limit is a safe bet with your down loaded ammo. Much further is a guessing game. Good call.

The 25 yard mark is not an arbatrary number. 25 and 50 yards are the NRA levels of competence with a handgun. And you know as well as I do that most shooters can not keep their shots in the black at 25 yards! Most factory pistols and ammo can not meet the Camp Perry competition standards at 50 yards, meaning they can not accomplish small game standards at that range either. I am talking shooting from a machine rest and eliminating the shooter as a variable. We did that thread about ammo/weapon capabilities and military requirements a while back.

The normal tendency is to remember the one lucky shot and forget the 99 shots that missed. I think that is one of the advantages of that "dirt cheap .22 ammo". It's cheap enough for you to forget your misses.

[Camp10]

...but somehow it doesn't sit right when someone moving to our country (not Rawanda, btw) is interested in getting a weapons arsenal before even setting foot here. (from what we know so far)
Just seems in bad taste.

If they come here for the freedoms the other 9 articles of the Bill of Rights gives them it's okay but if they want that pesky #2 they are bad? Hmmmm....

[glockcop]

The 25 yard mark is not an arbatrary number. 25 and 50 yards are the NRA levels of competence with a handgun. And you know as well as I do that most shooters can not keep their shots in the black at 25 yards! Most factory pistols and ammo can not meet the Camp Perry competition standards at 50 yards, meaning they can not accomplish small game standards at that range either. I am talking shooting from a machine rest and eliminating the shooter as a variable. We did that thread about ammo/weapon capabilities and military requirements a while back.

The normal tendency is to remember the one lucky shot and forget the 99 shots that missed. I think that is one of the advantages of that "dirt cheap .22 ammo". It's cheap enough for you to forget your misses.


25 yards most certainly is an arbitrary number. Who cares what distance the NRA says you can or can't hit at? No one can say what another man can or can't do. Like I said nobody told us as young men that we could't hit our targets past 25 yards with a .22 pistol. That mental stigma was never planted therefore we DID hit our targets past 25 yards with regularity. Marksmanship is 50% skill and 50% mental. "most shooters can not keep their shots in the black at 25 yards". Really? The vast majority of new recruits can when they leave my range. This applies only to those who don't practice enough and were not taught properly. As youngsters while out hunting, we didn't rely on ''luck''. We took home way more rabbits than we missed that's for sure. If a shot was outside of our skills we passed it. We were brought up by true outdoorsman that taught the importance of ethical hunting. We took the shots we were comfortable with and knew we could make. 50 yards was about our limit on rabbits with a pistol but that limit did not happen over night. You see, we practiced alot with those ''useless'' .22 pistols to get to that level of proficiency and it has rolled right over to my abilities as a firearms instructor today. New shooters are like a fresh clean slate with no ingrained bad habits. With a little time and proper guidance, their skills develope quickly. Now an old fart like you may be alot more difficult to train proficiently past 25 yards :). Given the time, I'll get you hitting rabbit sized targets at 50 yards with a pistol too but we may have some bad habits to break ( just poking at ya a lil bit:)). It takes practice and that practice hones and develops skills. That's why most novice shooters (that don't reload) need a .22 pistol. This may sound cocky but that is not the intention: Like an old timer I knew once said, "Boy, it ain't braggin' if you can back it up". And as young men hunting rabbits with our .22 revolvers, we could certainly "back it up". One more point of interest is apparently nobody told our .22 revolvers that they "were not up to small game standards" at 45-50 yards. Ha, Bull splat! Who comes up with this cr@p? Somebody needs to send that memo to all our dead rabbits too. The proof is in the frying pan on this one.

[hunter63]

That's why the 10/22 and the MKII and MKIII are s popular......lot's of bullets.........
I don't really care what anyone else thinks....I like shooting my .22's.........

[Sarge47]

That's why the 10/22 and the MKII and MKIII are s popular......lot's of bullets.........
I don't really care what anyone else thinks....I like shooting my .22's.........
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :whistling: :sneaky2: :cool2:

[Rick]

I don't have any valid reasons for owning any of the weapons I own. I had money burning a hole in my pocket at the exact same time that I saw something I liked. Viola! Gun ownership. But, yeah, my .22s are a lot of fun.

[glockcop]

I don't have any valid reasons for owning any of the weapons I own. I had money burning a hole in my pocket at the exact same time that I saw something I liked. Viola! Gun ownership. But, yeah, my .22s are a lot of fun.

Rick and hunter63, IMO you both made a very, very good point. The OP asked "what would you go for?". Obviously "fun" is a very big part of firearm ownership. Who doesn't want to have fun? When you can have fun And build important fundamentals without breaking the bank, it's a good day indeed. "What would you go for?"..... a nice .22 for starters. Most of us here are definately on the right track. God bless America...''Land of the free to disagree'' :).

[Beans]

I am more interested in why you would consider moving to a Country that you feel you need to be armed 24/7/365. Hell if I felt like that I would leave America.

It is a a fairly common feeling here in border Country. Undocumented travelers passing by your house ( in my rural area) late at night, turning on a water source and leaving it running, liberating unsecured items. A neighbor even found two undocumented travelers trying to hitch a ride on the horses they had in a field next to their house. A friend of mine found an undocumented family sleeping in his car parked in front of his garage.

Drug laden trucks found abandoned within 200 yards of your house. House burglaries, LEO's getting killed, ranchers getting killed on thier land. Border Patrol, Homeland Security, Customs trucks racing down the highway running red/blue lights. Drive down the road in any direction and spot a Border Patrol vehicle setting in an overlook position within 10 miles from your house. It is a rare day that I don't see a LEO vehicle setting on the side of the road with a group 5-15 undocumented travelers handcuffed.

There is even a debate how the Monument Fire (http://www.inciweb.org/incident/2324/) got started.
AS it was spotted by a Border Patrolman looking for foot prints in the area. No lighting strikes in the area, so it looks like it was human caused.

But from what i understand Downtown Detroit is just the same.


Interesting that the original poster asked the question the way that he did. It is as if he feels he is moving to Somalia. Firearms are nice, and firearms are part of the American culture and Psyche. But clearly many Americans get by without them. And that part is also true.

I forgot to add that that the US Government has signs posted in areas that warn US citizens that when traveling in certain areas advising do not stop, keep your door locked and windows rolled up because of "smugglers and illegal immigrants" their words. Also an area in our part of the state has been off limits to travelers/visitors because it is a drug smugglers corridor and it is posted as such.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/06/17/portion-arizona-wildlife-refuge-closed-safety-concerns/

This is not a politcal post just an answer to why I am armed 24/7/365

[Prospector]

7-4-2011
I find a high powered pellet rifle in .17 or .22 calliber (some have both barrels) works very well for pests around the homestead. Not too loud, accurate, and NOT long range.

[Bushman]

Gary Sitton once said that his 'basic' list would be,

"a .22 rimfire rifle, a 12g shotgun, a 30-06 rifle, and a .45 ACP for self-defence"

I tend to agree, as the first 3 cover most bases for anything you NEED to hunt...........and the 4th for anything thats HUNTING YOU !!

[kyratshooter]

Gary Sitton once said that his 'basic' list would be,

"a .22 rimfire rifle, a 12g shotgun, a 30-06 rifle, and a .45 ACP for self-defence"

I tend to agree, as the first 3 cover most bases for anything you NEED to hunt...........and the 4th for anything thats HUNTING YOU !!

Now all we have to figure out is if you need a bolt action, single shot, pump, simiauto or lever action in each long guns and if a revolver or simiauto is best for the .45!

We should have that cleared up in no time!

[Rick]

I'm gonna put this on the flip chart so I can follow along. If someone will volunteer to help we can flowchart this puppy.

[kyratshooter]

Is there an excel app big enough to handle this one?

[hunter63]

So, Like what says the OP.........????

[Rick]

Ooh. MS Project will work!

[Bushman]

Now all we have to figure out is if you need a bolt action, single shot, pump, simiauto or lever action in each long guns and if a revolver or simiauto is best for the .45!

We should have that cleared up in no time!

heheheheh...............

if I remember aright Sittons' list included ......... a bolt action .22 R/F, a pump action 12g and a bolt action pre '64 Mod 70 Winchester...........plus a Mil Spec 1911 Colt .45 ACP.

he were a simple man was Sitton................
helluva writer too...........

died before his time (may he R.I.P.)

[Curt]

Now that we have successfully addressed this post, lets talk religion or politics!!! LOL

[crashdive123]

Not likely. Not here.

[kyratshooter]

I am a pagan libritarian anarchist, I also like revolvers and bolt action battle rifles.

This is the only place that will have me.

[Rick]

I can't believe you! You know better than that. What on earth is wrong with you? You misspelled Libertarian. I swear I can't take you anywhere!

[crashdive123]

Cut him some slack. He was a teacher.

[BENESSE]

Maybe Kyrat meant to say Librarian.

[Rick]

Hmmm. Librarian. I'll bet that's it.

http://blogs.sltrib.com/vault/uploaded_images/ConanTheLibrarian-796202.jpg

[kyratshooter]

I got pagan and anarchist right, what do you want, perfection?

Besides, I abide by the Mark Twain philosophy, that a well educated man should be able to spell any word properly in three different ways.

You know it dosen't make sense for kake to start with a C and cissors to start with an S.

[Sarge47]

Now that we have successfully addressed this post, lets talk religion or politics!!! LOL
Just stay away from Football, that can draw blood! :innocent: :sneaky2:

[Bushman]

@ Kyratshooter...........


"KENTUCKY:
Five million people,
Fifteen last names."

got that in an email today........... splains a LOT !!! :)

Harry

[hunter63]

May be moving to USA next year, so I'm curious what people would go for.

I'm pretty set on a Sig P229 for self defense around the home and maybe an AR15.
Should I go for .223 REM in the AR15? Or 308?

I've been told aswell that a Remington 700 in 30/06 is a great weapon for big game hunting aswell.

Thanks in advance,

Krill.

One more time....OK, Commander....It would be intresting to know what you decided on.

[LowKey]

The OP hasn't been back since the day he posted this.

[Curt]

The OP hasn't been back since the day he posted this.

No wonder, he probably knew the furor that it would start :D He probably posted it and just watched it grow and grow!!

[hunter63]

I was thinking the same thing.......a my favorite gun thread, no matter how it's disguised, but in all fairness he did ASK, what we would suggest.
I would just be intrested in the outcome.

[Bladeforger]

What the.....did I miss it, or has no one suggested a lever action 30-30? LOL

(Or even a lever action/revolver combo.(.38/.357, .44, 45lc):innocent:

Weeeeeelllll, just to be sure it isn't skipped over...

.45 Colt in one of the 92 levers, with hot and mild loadings;
.45 Colt in one of the SAA clones for mild loadings ONLY;
.45 Colt in Blackhawk for the stout loads; and
.45 Colt in an 1873 for mild loads if you want to play Cowboy Action.:cowboy:

And I'm with Sarge on the .22 pistols--the more the merrier.

Whoever said that the best survival knife is the one you have with you... most days that would be my Spyderco Barong, other days it might be the flat-ground Spyderco Native. Maybe I'll have to get a NGRS. :online2long:

Keith

[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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