View Full Version : Any machinists here?
paracordist
06-23-2011, 05:20 PM
I need a special jig made to establish alignment for cutting and drilling firesteels for my BSB Bracelets. I'm seeking the service of a machinist who cam make me one per my design. It will be around 4" x 6", and no more than 1" thick. I have a working model made from a 2x4 but don't have the tools to get the perfect alignment I need; and its not durable. This item will serve a guide for hacksaws as well as drilling underwater. If this is something you can do for a very reasonable price, or trade please let me know by PM. Thanks!
canid
06-23-2011, 05:28 PM
you got a technical drawing, picture of the model or just a good sketch?
paracordist
06-23-2011, 05:48 PM
no but I can make one easy enough.
paracordist
06-23-2011, 07:34 PM
Ok here it is:
http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy239/kevingg_2000/misc/KGGJIG.jpg
(looking through patent submission forms) What? These? Uh, old papers I was gonna shred. No, no. That doesn't say patent. Oh, look. Butterflies.
canid
06-24-2011, 07:13 AM
Looks like everything but the slot milling can be done on a drill press.
I'm not sure what material would be suitable for a bimetal hacksaw blade miter, for durability, but i'm giving it some thought.
I'm going to run this buy a friend and see what I can do.
paracordist
06-24-2011, 08:56 AM
thanks canid; I've gotten some scary feedback about metals, reactions, self sustaining fires and water - all making me quite concerned that I go with the proper materials!!
I've also received a suggestion that a small threaded hole be added to each firesteel area for a "thumb screw" for retention, and also a little hole in each end for using a rod to pushout firesteels if they get "stuck" great ideas I'll add to my drawing.
Looks like everything but the slot milling can be done on a drill press.
I'm not sure what material would be suitable for a bimetal hacksaw blade miter, for durability, but i'm giving it some thought.
I'm going to run this buy a friend and see what I can do.
canid
06-24-2011, 08:58 AM
those are both excellent ideas.
paracordist
06-24-2011, 12:57 PM
some of the latest suggestions that are also great: make it in two pieces "top" and "bottom". they could use guide rods for alignment and clamp on the firesteel restricting movement. separation allows easy steel removal and cleaning.
finallyME
06-29-2011, 12:38 PM
I would use 304 Stainless. 316 would be better (more durable), but more expensive to machine (cuz it's harder to cut).
I am not a machinist. I am just the lowly Engineer that makes drawings for the machinist to cut stuff out. What program did you use to draw that? Looks old. :)
crashdive123
06-29-2011, 12:48 PM
Oh great - now we've got two engineers that are gonna be talking gibberish.
finallyME
06-30-2011, 01:21 PM
You know, I had to take a class on how to talk gibberish. It was much easier than when I was trying to learn Polish. Mostly because no one needed to understand me.
paracordist
07-01-2011, 11:14 PM
I would use 304 Stainless. 316 would be better (more durable), but more expensive to machine (cuz it's harder to cut).
I am not a machinist. I am just the lowly Engineer that makes drawings for the machinist to cut stuff out. What program did you use to draw that? Looks old. :)
autodesk civil 3d 2010 - maybe my drafting style is old school LOL?
kyratshooter
07-02-2011, 12:54 AM
Your first trimmed and drilled firesteel is going to cost you $3,254.97!
canid
07-02-2011, 02:04 AM
now that's funny: civil engineering software for mechanical drafting.
i'm an autocad guy (and 3dsmax), but i've been itching to try out solidworks.
paracordist
07-03-2011, 09:21 AM
it is essentially Autocad 2010 ramped up for civil design. since I'm a civil engineer it what I had available to sketch up my idea.
now that's funny: civil engineering software for mechanical drafting.
i'm an autocad guy (and 3dsmax), but i've been itching to try out solidworks.
finallyME
07-04-2011, 01:04 AM
autodesk civil 3d 2010 - maybe my drafting style is old school LOL?
It just looks strange. I usually can tell when someone doesn't know how to make a drawing. But, that drawing doesn't fit the profile of a neub. But, on the other hand, all the dimensions are in fractions, which is strange. Now that I know you are a civil using autocad, it makes sense. I just hope you are more kind to me, then I was to you, when I draw a house plan with solidworks.
finallyME
07-04-2011, 01:07 AM
now that's funny: civil engineering software for mechanical drafting.
i'm an autocad guy (and 3dsmax), but i've been itching to try out solidworks.
Well, believe it or not, I have used Solidworks to do a room layout. But, most of what I do is use Solidworks for small, one off parts.
Sparky93
07-09-2011, 12:44 AM
I believe the fractions mean that the tolerance +/- 1/64 of an inch. If I had the equipment I could make it for you but I do not have the resources to do so. If you had asked a couple of months ago before I graduated high school I had acess to one of the nicest machine shops in southern Indiana. I could make that in about three to four hours, maybe more maybe less if I had the tools.
Sparky93
07-09-2011, 12:52 AM
How accurate is the diameter of the firesteels because the hole will have to be toleranced for M.M.C.?
Also does the blind holes for the firesteels have to be flat bottomed.
I like the one piece idea due to simplicity and if you add a smaller hole at the bottom of the blind hole out the other side it would give you a push rod hole and also a cleaning port that you could stick an air nozzle to to blow out debrees to clean it. The multi peice idea in my opinion is going to double if not triple the machining time making the jig cost more.
COWBOYSURVIVAL
07-09-2011, 08:40 AM
I haven't used Solidworks but from the errors in drawings that were created by Solidworks it doesn't interest me. ACAD 2005 at home and ACAD 2010 at work. As to fractions indicating +/- 1/64. I disagree tolerence should be specified on all dimensions on all drawings.
Sparky93
07-09-2011, 12:28 PM
... As to fractions indicating +/- 1/64. I disagree tolerence should be specified on all dimensions on all drawings.
I argee with you that the tolerance should be stated, but thats what are teacher taught us to use if the tolerance is not stated and the dimensions are fractions.
paracordist
07-10-2011, 10:51 AM
How accurate is the diameter of the firesteels because the hole will have to be toleranced for M.M.C.?
Also does the blind holes for the firesteels have to be flat bottomed.
I like the one piece idea due to simplicity and if you add a smaller hole at the bottom of the blind hole out the other side it would give you a push rod hole and also a cleaning port that you could stick an air nozzle to to blow out debrees to clean it. The multi peice idea in my opinion is going to double if not triple the machining time making the jig cost more. I think based on feedback like yours, this should be made in two halves. then it can be clamped on the firesteels and the holes can be a bit smaller than 3/8" so they hold the steels firm.
Sparky93
07-10-2011, 02:12 PM
Thinking about how I would do it now, I don't think it would be that much added time to machine. I would machine the bolt holes first, bolt the two pieces together and machine the two Peices as one. If the size of the firsteels is accurate then the firesteel hole could be reamed to .373 for a good press fit.
letslearntogether47
07-10-2011, 10:15 PM
I have been a machinist for over 20 years.I have every piece of equipment needed at my disposal,including CNC horizontal mill.
Sorry i missed this thread,I've been on vacation this week.
I would make the jig 2 part bolted together then drill and ream the holes to size for the fire steels.Then machine .010 off the inside of each peice so you have a .020 clamp when the 2 sides are tightened together.
Personally,I think aluminum would work just fine for this application.You would just have to watch out how far you saw when sectioning the firesteels.
I'll check back here tomorrow from work.I could do up a quick drawing in Solid Works so you can make corrections visualize it.
Scratch aluminum.CR steel would be best for threads and durability.
letslearntogether47
07-11-2011, 07:38 AM
Figures,can't see the drawing here at work.
Anyways,I must have been tired last night.The jig can't be split in 2 pieces as the top part would be sectioned by the cuts for the saw guides.
Sparky93
07-11-2011, 12:27 PM
Figures,can't see the drawing here at work.
Anyways,I must have been tired last night.The jig can't be split in 2 pieces as the top part would be sectioned by the cuts for the saw guides.
What if you started out with two work peices bolted together with six bolts in it (two in every top piece) then machine it as you would if it was one piece then use a endmill to cut the slots wich would then make the part into a four piece jig. I am curious as to what the best way to machine something like this would be and you have way more experiance machining than I do.
letslearntogether47
07-11-2011, 12:55 PM
Honestly,I hate using an endmill that small.
I would just use our verticle band saw to make those slots.
I understand what you mean about cutting the top piece into sections.
Did a quick SW drawing,but can't see his original at work.Hope this works,then I'll do some changes.
Too bad he's not around.I'm between jobs and have some spare time.
Sparky93
07-11-2011, 01:03 PM
Yah I thought about the endmill, it would have to be pretty long and narrow. Sounds like a recipe for a broken endmill.
letslearntogether47
07-11-2011, 01:09 PM
How about this?
Sparky93
07-11-2011, 01:14 PM
Thats what I was thinkin, I like the Solid Works I'm a Autodesk Inventor man but I'm going to have to learn Solid Works here in a few months when I go off to college.
letslearntogether47
07-11-2011, 01:14 PM
Yah I thought about the endmill, it would have to be pretty long and narrow. Sounds like a recipe for a broken endmill.
Yup,definitely a recipe for"""snap""".
letslearntogether47
07-11-2011, 01:17 PM
Thats what I was thinkin, I like the Solid Works I'm a Autodesk Inventor man but I'm going to have to learn Solid Works here in a few months when I go off to college.
It's not too bad.Very powerful stuff.
I bet I use only about 1/3 of it's power if that.
Been working with it for 10 years now.Don't even mess with the sheet metal stuff or surfacing.
Sparky93
07-11-2011, 01:30 PM
I got exepted to mechanical engineering tech. at purdue but my next choice would have been to go to college for maching at VU
letslearntogether47
07-11-2011, 01:58 PM
I got exepted to mechanical engineering tech. at purdue but my next choice would have been to go to college for maching at VU
Ultimately you will probably end up doing both.I'm sure the Mech Eng. tech has hands on as well.
It really helps to make parts from print for a while so you'll know what the machinist are looking for on a print.
I'm lucky,started out rebuilding machines,turning bushings with tol. +.002/-.000.Then self taught myself the CNC verticle mill(conversational no G code).
Then was sent to school for Solid Works.So I basically make the prints,then make the parts,then assemble.
And that's good,if I make a mistake on the part....I just change the print to match.:lol:
Sparky93
07-11-2011, 02:07 PM
hahah true that, my favorite part of learning to machine was learnig how parts are made so when I design something I design it in a way that it can be easily manufactured. I took the machining class as a senior so I learned on the manual machines my next would have been CNC. The class was a pretty awesome class we had about fifteen Vertical Mills, one horizontal mil,l about 15 lathes vertical bandsaw, 6 or 7 suface grinders, three Hass vertical 3 axis CNC machines, two Hass CNC lathes, a horizontal bandsaw, and a fully stocked tool crib.
letslearntogether47
07-11-2011, 02:13 PM
You'll never stop learning in this trade.
I plan on taking a Master Cam class sometime.I have the requirements with machining experience and Solid Works.
A lot of manufacturers in this area require Master Cam.
I'm more of a quick prototype machinist.Not really doing large lots or job shop stuff.
Sparky93
07-11-2011, 02:26 PM
That sounds about like my dream job. I love to design and build things.
letslearntogether47
07-11-2011, 02:32 PM
The thing that ruins most"dream jobs" is time constraints and staying in budget.
But,it's all part of the job.
If a client says I want a machine to do x-y-z and you have so much time to do it.
It get a little tricky and sometime frustrating.Especially if the design and concept is not quite right and needs to be changed.
Sparky93
07-11-2011, 02:54 PM
Here is a picture of a bracket I designed and machined to attach a centifugal clutch to the fly wheel on our high school shell eco challenge car.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-2X3j1iJmeIg/ThtGM306U3I/AAAAAAAAAEY/Z3ZIRqiTtns/s288/DSCF1201.JPG
Here is the bracket mounted on the engine with the cluth on it.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-OI1yXGApHks/ThtGT7TJMxI/AAAAAAAAAEc/a7paq8tDLLA/s288/DSCF1207.JPG
I've got cooler stuff I've machined but these are the only picture I had.
letslearntogether47
07-11-2011, 03:11 PM
Looks good.
How did you center the shaft?
Sparky93
07-11-2011, 03:17 PM
I placed it on a old surface plate and since I surface ground the backside of the bracket plate flat and the shafts face was turned true I tacted it in place with a welder and then welded the backside. Probably not perfect but it did what I needed.
Sparky93
07-11-2011, 03:20 PM
Had I had it I would of used a thicker piece of metal for the bracket plate and bored a hole through it for a press fit, that way I could of welded it without having to worry about centering it.
letslearntogether47
07-12-2011, 09:17 AM
I guess maybe he found somebody to make one for him.
The best material would be aluminum with steel inserts for the drill and saw stops.
That would be more machining and turning involved.Not sure if he needs to see when the jig would be submersed in water.
But a good water soluable oil would keep stuff from rusting.
Sparky93
07-12-2011, 12:20 PM
I guess maybe he found somebody to make one for him.
The best material would be aluminum with steel inserts for the drill and saw stops.
That would be more machining and turning involved.Not sure if he needs to see when the jig would be submersed in water.
But a good water soluable oil would keep stuff from rusting.
I like it, plus with the steel inserts it would be just as good but alot lighter.
letslearntogether47
07-12-2011, 01:02 PM
I like it, plus with the steel inserts it would be just as good but alot lighter.
Definitely,and that would make shipping it a little less costly.
I have some O2 oil hard stuff here that would work for drill guides and the stop the saw.
Could press then in the alum. for the drill guides.The maybe just flat head screws under the saw slots for a stop.
Sparky93
07-12-2011, 01:08 PM
His profile shows he has not been on the forum in the past two days, maybe you could get a hold of him via his website where he sales his paracord products.
http://sites.google.com/site/paracordist/
letslearntogether47
07-12-2011, 01:32 PM
True,I'll have to try that site later when I get home.
Thanks for the link.
This would work,but making all the inserts would take a while.
Maybe just a set of 4 he can move to the next row.
Sparky93
07-12-2011, 01:40 PM
Are the inserts a "bolt" with a hole drilled through it?
letslearntogether47
07-12-2011, 02:28 PM
No, I thought about doing that as well and just thread all the holes.
Could just use SHC screws for the inserts.Easier than turning a bunch.
Sparky93
07-12-2011, 02:35 PM
Yah, you could probably even do that in the drill press. Clamp a nut in the vise and screw a SHC screw into the nut and then drill the hole, unscrew one, screw in a new one and repeat.
paracordist
07-13-2011, 11:40 PM
Sparky and letslearn, I just finished reading to catch up LOL. I've been away with the family for a few days and did not read up. You guys know your stuff. I didn't get anyone to make this because the price I got is $100 and I just can't spend that much money. Obviously I didn't know how much was involved when compared to our makeshift wood version! How much do you think the aluminum version would cost? someone suggested drill bushings for the holes. as for the hacksaw part, as long as I'm careful I assume I can saw through the steel and then stop before hitting bottom. It does not have to do 4 steels at one time either. I just thought that would be cool; however one would be fine if it was much cheaper.
Sparky93
07-14-2011, 12:29 AM
Paracordist,
I would say if letslearn's price fits your budget then go with him, he has more experiance and more precise tools than I have. If precision isn't critical I could make somethin up on a drill press +/- 1/64 and trade you it for one of your paracord products close to the materials cost for the jig.
This is kinda what I was thinkin
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-LP2JGY8qSKc/Th5wB32WiRI/AAAAAAAAAEw/inS33N7y8Bc/s288/Firesteel%2BJig.bmp
The two bolt holes on top are to bolt the jig down to a workbench, the firsteel hole and drill guide are oversize 1/64 to give a little bit of clearance and to hold the firesteel in place there is a 1/4 inch thumb scew.
I'm sure letslearn could make you an excellent jig and I urge you to go with him over me if it's in your budget.
letslearntogether47
07-14-2011, 10:26 AM
Hey Kevin,
I have some 4" wide 1" thick aluminum on the shelve.
I'm not looking to get rich off a fellow W.S. brother.
Just maybe 1/2 your profit for life would be good.:shifty:
J/K,I figure a Best Paracord bracelet and maybe one of those cool monkey fist key chains.BTW,I have someone that wants to place an order for a BP bracelet.
I've made a nice King Cobra lanyard for my knife,have to post a pic. sometime.
Anyways,this would be the best and easiest way to make it.Something like this would take my tomorrow to make and could ship this weekend.
It has 1/4-20 socket head cap screws drilled through to work as hold downs as well as drill guides.I'll drill and ream the 3/8 holes +.001.Not sure how tight a tolerance firesteel stay at.
Here's a pic. of the new revised jig.
Let me know.
-Bob
letslearntogether47
07-14-2011, 11:03 AM
Ok one firesteel site puts the demensions at.•Size: 3/8 inch diameter by 4 inches long (9.5 x 100mm)That's .374 x 3.937.
So +.002 at .376 should be plenty of clearence.
paracordist
07-17-2011, 01:37 PM
Sparky and letslearn, both of your inputs are awesome, as well as your final jigs! Sparky yours is perfect as a one-steel jig. I really appreaciate your willingness to barter because cash is very tight. I'd like to take letslearn up on his offer for trade at a bsb and a saints lanyard. I'll take your advice on tolerance because I just don't know. What material is the jig lets learn? I'd say if you are still willing its a go. You don't need to go out of your way to get it done quickly, I need to order more 1.5" bearings for the saints lanyard and that along will take a couple weeks to get here. Sorry for late responses, just getting back from vacation with the family!
letslearntogether47
07-17-2011, 06:32 PM
Hi kevin,
Hope you had a nice vacation.
The jig would be made of 1 inch thick,4 inch wide by 4 inch long aluminum.It will be light that way,and easy to ship.
I could work on it a little each week and shoot you a few pictures of progress.I've already cut a piece of 3/8 x 4 in. long stock to act as a sample of fire steel.
paracordist
07-18-2011, 02:03 PM
Thats awesome. I'll order the bearing for the fist. BTW, where abouts in MA do you live? (PM me if you prefer). I'm in Manchester NH area and maybe we could meet. Question about the holes for drilling the firesteels, they need to guide a drill bit only small enough to get a piece of paracord through tightly (right now I have to burn a point on the paracord to get it through and thats what I want); Some people mentioned drill bushings of some sort; any recommendation? Last thing I want is to mess this thing up!
Hi kevin,
Hope you had a nice vacation.
The jig would be made of 1 inch thick,4 inch wide by 4 inch long aluminum.It will be light that way,and easy to ship.
I could work on it a little each week and shoot you a few pictures of progress.I've already cut a piece of 3/8 x 4 in. long stock to act as a sample of fire steel.
letslearntogether47
07-18-2011, 02:23 PM
I started it today and I'm about 1/2 done.
Had some extra time at work here between jobs.
I'll snap a picture tonight if I get a chance.
Drill bushing will work,but figured that a socket head cap screw could work both to hold the fire steel and be a guide for the drill.
If anything gets screwed up it will be me doing it.lol
My only concern is the amount of threads in the aluminum.Hopefully just hand tightening the bolts will hold the fire steel.
I'll test it on a piece of cold rolled 3/8 steel.
letslearntogether47
07-29-2011, 11:44 AM
A couple pics of the finished jig.
Just need to drill more 1/4-20 bolts.
paracordist
07-29-2011, 12:19 PM
I am drooling heavily. You are the man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
a couple pics of the finished jig.
Just need to drill more 1/4-20 bolts.
letslearntogether47
07-29-2011, 12:38 PM
Cool,should be able to get it to you soon.
paracordist
08-01-2011, 10:05 AM
Cool,should be able to get it to you soon.
Great! What colors for your lanyard and bracelet?size? Can't wait.
Sparky93
08-01-2011, 10:12 PM
Looks awesome, nice job.
That is a pretty spiffy job. I wish I had the tools and the talent to make something like that. I've never done much work in metal. Nice job.
letslearntogether47
08-02-2011, 08:30 AM
Great! What colors for your lanyard and bracelet?size? Can't wait.
Yeah,I have to get that to you.I lost my darn modem the other night.Seems to not be recognizing my network.
Just shows as Wireless connection in the networks available.I'll have to get that fixed up.Not sure if I can see your site from here at work.
I'll get you the wrist size.Still need to drill the other cap screws,but,it's been busy last week and this week.
Should have some time this week to get ur done.
Probably just ship it out as I don't know if I'll be heading North this next month.
That way you'll have it to get your work done.
Looks awesome, nice job.
Thanks,
Wasn't too bad as I could program a pattern in the CNC for the multiple holes.
That is a pretty spiffy job. I wish I had the tools and the talent to make something like that. I've never done much work in metal. Nice job.
Thanks Rick,
Biggest thing working with metal is not to take too much off.Can be very hard to put it back on,most of the time it's junk unfortunately.
Also,even when machining parts,cleanliness is a must.Some steel chips under the part or between the part and vise can cause some problems.
paracordist
08-04-2011, 10:19 PM
This pair coming your way tomorrow letslearn; just pm me your address tonight or in A.M.
http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy239/kevingg_2000/Paracordist%20Creations%203/003-1.jpg
Biggest thing working with metal is not to take too much off.Can be very hard to put it back on
My barber tells me the same thing.
letslearntogether47
08-05-2011, 10:40 AM
Wow,that's sweet.
I'll shoot you me address in a PM.
crashdive123
08-05-2011, 03:17 PM
You know Rick's barber? Who would've thunk it?
Sparky93
08-06-2011, 12:01 AM
Two awesome craftsmen and some amazing peices of work!
letslearntogether47
08-08-2011, 09:03 PM
My barber tells me the same thing.
Sounds like a good barber,Rick.
You know Rick's barber? Who would've thunk it?
No,but I do have 2 ears.lol
Two awesome craftsmen and some amazing peices of work!
Thanks Sparky,I plan to ship the jig tomorrow to Kevin.
Didn't have time to get do it this morning.
paracordist
08-08-2011, 10:36 PM
let me know when you get the goods from me
Which, of course, is better than having the goods on you.
letslearntogether47
08-09-2011, 07:27 AM
let me know when you get the goods from me
I'll be shipping today.It will go out with the 1 pm mail today,Kevin.
I'll confirm later.
letslearntogether47
08-09-2011, 03:24 PM
let me know when you get the goods from me
Kevin,
It left with UPS this afternoon.
I PMed the tracking number to you.
It only weighed 3 lbs as it's mostly aluminum.
-Bob
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