Why Bug'out to Hell, when there are options.

[Sourdough]

Most people who Don't own remote cabins, Figure to car camp or tent camp. But America is full of Forest Service Cabins. If I had to bug'out that is where I would be going.

Find out what cabins are in your area: http://www.fs.fed.us/recreation/reservations/

[BENESSE]

Wouldn't a lot of people have a similar idea?
I'd think they'd start there and work their way to abandoned homes whose owners have bugged out.
But it is a nice idea.

[hunter63]

If they are anything like or state parks, you need reservations a long time in advance.

So,... if everyone shows up at the same time, some have reservations, from PRE SHTF and you show up After SHTF, will the reservations still be honored?...
Or did the rangers Bug Out as well?....And whose gonna clean the port-a-potties?.........Is the cell phone coverage?....ATM out of money,...no quarters for the showers

I'm thinking that this would be a bad idea, just judging by a lot of people I've met in these areas, under ideal conditions.

[Sourdough]

Wouldn't a lot of people have a similar idea?
I'd think they'd start there and work their way to abandoned homes whose owners have bugged out.
But it is a nice idea.

This what I am talking about. http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/showthread.php/100387-alaska-summer?highlight=Resurrection+Creek Not many punks & scumbags are going to be here. Most people don't even know that they exist.

(His hike Summit Creek Trail is about 24 hard miles from my cabin. I was supposed to be hiking this week with him around The Russian Lakes).

[TechPrepper]

Honestly, I think I would rather get setup with an RV or Boat rather than try to make it to a cabin I couldn't be assured would be empty or available when the SHTF. Ideally you might have your own vacation cabin I suppose, but again, it may not be empty when you get there (a big problem when your BOL isn't lived in fulltime). Personally I have access to a motorhome which could be lived in for a while comfortably if necessary. I've even entertained the idea of picking up some land in a remote area with access to a water source and setting it up with RV hookups (e.g. septic system and water) with the idea that I could drive the RV to the BOL and park. Essentially bringing my cabin with me. The reason I like this more than a fixed cabin, is that without a cabin, the land would appear less attractive to people looking for a BOL to squat on.

[kyratshooter]

I'll be the bubble buster for this one.

Once more, every area of the continent is different.

Here in the east the only cabins available are in resort parks. More like an apartment complex in the woods than a "remote cabin".

Another hazard the western folks do not seem to realize. Everything in the east is already owned by someone.

And that in the west, if you could live on it, it would already be owned by someone. That land is empty and owned by no one for a reason. You will only last as long as the food, and often the water, you haul in.

Alaska? I will not be there. Most of us won't. In fact, Everyone in Alaska would not fill the school classrooms of my section of the state, and I am not in a heavily poultated state.

It seems that what happens in AK stays in AK and is not applicable anywhere else.

[Sourdough]

You will only last as long as the food, and often the water, you haul in.

Alaska? I will not be there. Most of us won't. In fact, Everyone in Alaska would not fill the school classrooms of my section of the state, and I am not in a heavily poultated state.

You must have large class rooms. 3/4 of a million people in Alaska.

[BENESSE]

It seems that what happens in AK stays in AK and is not applicable anywhere else.

You nailed it kyrat.
In addition, if AK is so different from where you are, it goes without saying that it's an entirely a different planet from the one I inhabit. The only thing we all share is human nature.

[Rick]

And an outhouse. But I'm not sharing it at the same time I don't care who you are.

[kyratshooter]

You must have large class rooms. 3/4 of a million people in Alaska.

My word you folks have really been on a growth spurt!

Still, you must remember that 700,000 is less than the population of Frankfort, Lexington and Louisville and they are smallish towns by eastern standards. KY is an average size state with 4 1/2 million. We have 88 people psm compared to your 1.2 psm.

Ms B is dealing with a state having 410 people per square mile, making Alaska seem like another planet, not another state.

When people in the eastern U.S. talk about "bugging out" I always wonder what theye are going to do when they find between 87 and 400 other people trying to share their little square mile.

[Rick]

My word you folks have really been on a growth spurt!

I think it's the long nights. You know, the only thing you can do when the nights are six months long is....Iditarod...oh, and midnight baseball.

[LowKey]

When people in the eastern U.S. talk about "bugging out" I always wonder what theye are going to do when they find between 87 and 400 other people trying to share their little square mile.

The state of MA has 835 persons per square mile.

This has been a major contention of mine since joining this forum. Too many people to bug out. You and 800 other people are not going to be able to 'live off the land'. Too many starving desperate people to bug-in without severe security measures. I'm sure if I put up a 10' barbed wire fence on top of a brick embankment, the authorities would be knocking at the door wondering what other screw-loose things I might be doing. But without something like that, you're garden-in-a-can and your horde of toiletpaper is not going to be safe from the mob. Unless SHTF is an epidemic you happen to be immune to.

[ryaninmichigan]

The population denisty of MI is around 170. But and it is a big but, alot of them will not leave the citys. Why would someone head north if they had not even camped in their back yard? SO real life numbers are quite a bit smaller. I do not see the majarity of Detroit citezens packing up and heading north. I can stay in or I can leave, up to me. I have resources at both my house in lower MI and my cabin in the north. The cabin can be traveled to by car ATV or even canoe if need be. There are river that conect in such a way that given enough time I could literly paddle from my house to the cabin. Not my first choice but it is feesable. Michigan is uniquie in that I do not have to worry much about a lot of things other states do. IE fresh water.

[LowKey]

Do you really think people are going to sit in the cities and starve quietly? Or are they going to go out, probably in the 'groups' they are in now, and loot the countryside including your cabin, whether they have camped in their probably non-existent backyard or not? You might be surprised at how good at surviving someone might be who has had to scrounge their whole life to get enough to eat. They aren't going to be picky and they aren't going to care if you got there first.

[ryaninmichigan]

Do you really think people are going to sit in the cities and starve quietly? Or are they going to go out, probably in the 'groups' they are in now, and loot the countryside including your cabin, whether they have camped in their probably non-existent backyard or not? You might be surprised at how good at surviving someone might be who has had to scrounge their whole life to get enough to eat. They aren't going to be picky and they aren't going to care if you got there first.

I guess the point is if the masses are going to come out a loot the countryside, the countryside I live in is a couple hundered miles closer to the citys than my cabin in the north. There are no large cities in the north so people from Detroit and Flint are going to be at my house a lot sooner than up there. What makes you think I would last any longer at home as opossed to up north? I guess if I am going to dyi I am going to die in the place I love. I would already be living up there if this whole making money thing would go away.

[kyratshooter]

Do you really think people are going to sit in the cities and starve quietly? Or are they going to go out, probably in the 'groups' they are in now, and loot the countryside including your cabin, whether they have camped in their probably non-existent backyard or not? You might be surprised at how good at surviving someone might be who has had to scrounge their whole life to get enough to eat. They aren't going to be picky and they aren't going to care if you got there first.

I worked in the corrective faclities as a teacher and councelor for 20 years. I have worked with the worst of the worst and have seen them react to different environments. The rural areas are not their favorite place to be.

I have seen hardcore murderers and rapists break down and cry on their first night in a facility located in the wilderness. They were afraid of the dark! I once saw a gang leader fight four men to stay in a car rather than get out and spend his appointed time in a "wilderness program" with no streetlights, no sidewalks and not a paved road in sight. They considered this the worst form of torture. Even with no fence around our facility we had no escapes. The inmates were scared to death of the local farmers. They had gotten the idea that we paid the farmers rewards for returned prisoners, dead or alive, no questions asked. (I can't imagine where they got such ideas)

One inmate made the comment during a counseling session that there was nothing between him and Memphis (100 miles away) but cornfields and the KKK.

Middle class suburban mindset and urban mindset are two different types of thought. While a suburban person might immidiately jump in the suv and attempt to fight the mass exit to grandma's house the urban getto residents do not consider the rural area a viable alternative. Their 'hood is home and they are going nowhere.

The major looting and mob activity will be in the urban area itself with ventures into suburbia. The suburban areas will have to organize quickly to fight off the hordes that are after all the plazma TVs and stairmasters in the homes of who they consider "rich".

Yes, I anticipate the "horde" sitting in the getto long enough for the water to go bad and large scale die offs to begin. They will be thinned considerably before they decide to leave. That was one lesson no one learned from Katrina. The people stayed put, and died. The gangs stayed in the getto and looted, they were niot roaming the rural areas.

Twenty miles further into the rural area, the first blown bridge they come to will stop them. So will the first well aimed shots. They may have experienced shootouts and gunfire on a regualr basis but well aimed fire is something that stops them cold. They will take their chances with pray and spray from a getto gunner but they are scared to death of sharpshooters in the prison towers. Those guys hit what they are aiming at.

Rural areas will be combed by looters eventually but not as looting mobs. There will be random poking around in abandoned houses for whatever is available. This will be done mostly by neighbors who know the houses are empty. The same neighbors will be walking patrols and responding to unknown intruders as well armed protective groups in pickup trucks and on ATVs. At least in my are they will, since they already do and have done so for decades.

When I lived in suburbia it took me firever to get to know most of my neighbors. We worked different shifts, they moved in and out, some were wierd and I am sure some were so much into their "OPSEC" that if they have been the best preppers in the world no one would have known it.

When I moved to my present rural location I had people stopping to welcome me while I was still unloading the truck. I was invited to supper my first night so I would not have to cook. I have a standing invitation to a neighbor's storm shelter and if my retired next door neighbor sees me with a shovel in my hand he is pulling up in my yard with his Bobcat 10 minutes latter.

The concept of the roaming mob of looters is a page out of Lucifer's Hammer and although it is fiction it has stuck. The fact that their small town organized at the mobs approach and wiped them from the face of the earth is forgotten.

[Rick]

The first looter that steps on my flowers and I'll be callin' 911! That carp won't go around here.

[ryaninmichigan]

I worked in the corrective faclities as a teacher and councelor for 20 years. I have worked with the worst of the worst and have seen them react to different environments. The rural areas are not their favorite place to be.

I have seen hardcore murderers and rapists break down and cry on their first night in a facility located in the wilderness. They were afraid of the dark! I once saw a gang leader fight four men to stay in a car rather than get out and spend his appointed time in a "wilderness program" with no streetlights, no sidewalks and not a paved road in sight. They considered this the worst form of torture. Even with no fence around our facility we had no escapes. The inmates were scared to death of the local farmers. They had gotten the idea that we paid the farmers rewards for returned prisoners, dead or alive, no questions asked. (I can't imagine where they got such ideas)

One inmate made the comment during a counseling session that there was nothing between him and Memphis (100 miles away) but cornfields and the KKK.

Middle class suburban mindset and urban mindset are two different types of thought. While a suburban person might immidiately jump in the suv and attempt to fight the mass exit to grandma's house the urban getto residents do not consider the rural area a viable alternative. Their 'hood is home and they are going nowhere.

The major looting and mob activity will be in the urban area itself with ventures into suburbia. The suburban areas will have to organize quickly to fight off the hordes that are after all the plazma TVs and stairmasters in the homes of who they consider "rich".

Yes, I anticipate the "horde" sitting in the getto long enough for the water to go bad and large scale die offs to begin. They will be thinned considerably before they decide to leave. That was one lesson no one learned from Katrina. The people stayed put, and died. The gangs stayed in the getto and looted, they were niot roaming the rural areas.

Twenty miles further into the rural area, the first blown bridge they come to will stop them. So will the first well aimed shots. They may have experienced shootouts and gunfire on a regualr basis but well aimed fire is something that stops them cold. They will take their chances with pray and spray from a getto gunner but they are scared to death of sharpshooters in the prison towers. Those guys hit what they are aiming at.

Rural areas will be combed by looters eventually but not as looting mobs. There will be random poking around in abandoned houses for whatever is available. This will be done mostly by neighbors who know the houses are empty. The same neighbors will be walking patrols and responding to unknown intruders as well armed protective groups in pickup trucks and on ATVs. At least in my are they will, since they already do and have done so for decades.

When I lived in suburbia it took me firever to get to know most of my neighbors. We worked different shifts, they moved in and out, some were wierd and I am sure some were so much into their "OPSEC" that if they have been the best preppers in the world no one would have known it.

When I moved to my present rural location I had people stopping to welcome me while I was still unloading the truck. I was invited to supper my first night so I would not have to cook. I have a standing invitation to a neighbor's storm shelter and if my retired next door neighbor sees me with a shovel in my hand he is pulling up in my yard with his Bobcat 10 minutes latter.

The concept of the roaming mob of looters is a page out of Lucifer's Hammer and although it is fiction it has stuck. The fact that their small town organized at the mobs approach and wiped them from the face of the earth is forgotten.

Great post this is what Iwas getting at. People in the gehto do not go into the woods. They will go to the suburbs to loot but they are not going 200 miles North and walking back into the woods 5 miles to loot. They would not survive the journey.

[kyratshooter]

My biggist problem with folks that plan on bugging out is the trip itself. Grandmas house is a long way down the road!


I live 25 miles outside a major urban area. They are repaving the highway between here and town. The 20 minute trip at 70mph has turned into a two hour crawl, and there is no emergency in effect! Even taking the back roads traffic is nose to tail and the trip is nearly an hour!

The entire road system will turn into a parking lot in an emergency.

That is why I have a get home bag, not a bug out bag. My fear is getting caught away from the house.

[ryaninmichigan]

This when where you live comes into play. Here there interlocking trail systems that will take you virualy anywhere in the state. Then there are the river systems here. I can walk a 1/4 of a mile from my house and literally paddle across the state. I have actually look at the route just to see if I could. Ideally for me something like this would happen mid deb. Lakes are all frozen and me and mine could travel where ever we wanted on the snow machines. Head to the coast and the great lakes become the road.

[LowKey]

Until you run out of gas.

Have never read Lucifer's Hammer.

Katrina was short term. There were a lot of things that weren't learned. And a lot of things that were.

[Rick]

I figure I'll drive until I run out of gas then hitch some gang members to the front of the buggy, dangle some bling from a rope just out of reach in the front of them and I should be good to go.

[BENESSE]

Everything that has happened so far is child's play to what could happen. The books we've all read ( One Second After, Lucifer's Hammer, Patriots, Earth Abides, Alas Babylon, Lights Out, etc. ) give us a glimpse of the possibilities that aren't so far fetched when one really thinks about them. Most of us will go only so far in preparing, before "push comes to shove". That's just the hallmark of the human race, I guess.

[Rick]

Preparing for the end of the world is good and all the books make for a fun read I suppose but I would caution folks about preparing for TEOTWAWKI at the sake of the really important and immediate needs like retirement, health care, building a rainy day fund in the event of illness, injury or unemployment. Prioritize your needs. Take care of day to day living needs first, take care of the most likely threats like fire, flood, hurricane, tornado next. Then, if you have excess resources to put on end of the world things go for it. If you don't, you may find you have a room full of food and ammo, be retired and living only on social security with no extra money to enjoy what you've worked all those years for.

I posted this after another member shared many of these thoughts with me. So I can't take credit for all of it. They were just too good not to post and soundly on the mark IMO. Thank you for sharing them!!

[Winnie]

Just so Rick. There's being prepared and there's being Burt Gummer. I'll just be prepared. To answer OP, those sort of places would be fought over, over here, so I guess I won't be bugging out either, safer to stay home.

[BENESSE]

Preparing for the end of the world is good and all the books make for a fun read I suppose but I would caution folks about preparing for TEOTWAWKI at the sake of the really important and immediate needs like retirement, health care, building a rainy day fund in the event of illness, injury or unemployment. Prioritize your needs. Take care of day to day living needs first, take care of the most likely threats like fire, flood, hurricane, tornado next. Then, if you have excess resources to put on end of the world things go for it. If you don't, you may find you have a room full of food and ammo, be retired and living only on social security with no extra money to enjoy what you've worked all those years for.

I posted this after another member shared many of these thoughts with me. So I can't take credit for all of it. They were just too good not to post and soundly on the mark IMO. Thank you for sharing them!!

To me, that should go without saying and yet it needs to be said often since so many people can't seem to wrap their heads around the concept.
1. You gotta make it during all that time before TEOTWAWKI hits the fan.
2. TEOTWAWKI might not happen.
Maybe you think being broke won't matter during TEOTWAWKI (if you're convinced it's coming in your lifetime) but being in poor health will be a game changer. If you die because you were irresponsible, that right there will be TEOTWAYKI.

[Sourdough]

For me all that matters is hiking and exploring, (Boots in the field). The rest is just mental masturbation. Now don't get me wrong, mental masturbation is still more fun than Work, TV, or saving fiat money. Life is for living physically, get physical.

[Winnie]

SD, I'm lost for words. Your OP was how to find a Bug-out location. How has that turned into hiking and exploring "boots in the field"?

[Sourdough]

SD, I'm lost for words. Your OP was how to find a Bug-out location. How has that turned into hiking and exploring "boots in the field"?

Easy: The OP was about Hike-in wilderness cabins supplied by USFS. Please Note the HIKE-IN part. (Sweetie, you need to move to America).

[Winnie]

Easy: The OP was about Hike-in wilderness cabins supplied by USFS. Please Note the HIKE-IN part. (Sweetie, you need to move to America).

No mention of Hike-in, in OP. Maybe this little old English type person is missing it.

[Sourdough]

No mention of Hike-in, in OP. Maybe this little old English type person is missing it.

Sorry see link in post #4

[kyratshooter]

Easy: The OP was about Hike-in wilderness cabins supplied by USFS. Please Note the HIKE-IN part. (Sweetie, you need to move to America).

Not fair Sourdough!

Does she need to move to the crowded northeast or the woods of Maine. To the farmland of the midwest or the cedar brakes of the southeast, the endless miles of Kansas prarie or the waterless deserts of the southwest. Any of these regions are as big as the UK.

And none of it is similar to your unpopulated southern AK temperate rainforest.

And 99% of us "Americans" do not consider humping supplies for 24 miles an option for long term survival.

As far as the only useful part of life being the physical, just have a couple of heart attacks and three or four back surgeries and you change your perspective. It turns into "Boots in the Field" when the meds are working right and you can walk standing up straight.

[BENESSE]

Amen to that Kyrat.

[Winnie]

Thankyou Kyrat.

+1 Bee.

[Sourdough]

And 99% of us "Americans" do not consider humping supplies for 24 miles an option for long term survival.

Sadly........you nailed that one.

This is why I think this WHOLE survival Facination is bogus. It is just entertainment, build a survival kit, but stay indoors and watch Simulated Survival TV.

[NightShade]

I think 99% of the people who are "going to bug out and survive in the wild" if SHTF are in for a big surprise. It will take alot more than a bad-a$$ survival kit, a few manuals, and watching alot of T.V.
Experience, preferably a life's worth, physical fitness, and determination are more important than a huge survival kit! All supplies run low eventually. The more you know, the less you need. The only way to know what you need and what your limitations are is to test them. I spend time outdoors because I enjoy it, practicing skills should I ever need them is just an added bonus that comes along with the territory.
Most people who are "going out to the wilderness" won't last long... about as long as their pack is designed to feed them... just my 2 cents.. for what its worth.

[EdD270]

Wow! I'm impressed. This is one of the very few threads related to TEOTWAWKI where there is displayed good sense and reasoning. Kudos to you all, and thanks for your comments.

[LowKey]

I have read Patriots. And The Road.
I grew up with a more science fiction view of TEOTW through various books. In most cases, the human population gets decimated before they have to deal with surviving. One can only hope if it happens, it happens that way.
Not holding breath. Would rather TEOTW waited until after I move on, thanks.

Rick, good post. One needs to be reminded of that once in a while.

[Trabitha]

Wouldn't a lot of people have a similar idea?
I'd think they'd start there and work their way to abandoned homes whose owners have bugged out.
But it is a nice idea.

Agreed. I would stay the heck away from state land in a situation where I had to bug out. Thankfully I have access to a family cabin I can go to...but even then if it's quite a ways a way...there could be someone else there by the time you made it there. IMO, a plan is good to have...but even the best plans can fail. That's why I will always have the car and tent as a back up just in case. That's if I have to leave my house at all. ;)

[Trabitha]

I have read Patriots. And The Road.
I grew up with a more science fiction view of TEOTW through various books. In most cases, the human population gets decimated before they have to deal with surviving. One can only hope if it happens, it happens that way.
Not holding breath. Would rather TEOTW waited until after I move on, thanks.

Rick, good post. One needs to be reminded of that once in a while.

I wanted to read The Road, but after watching the movie...I was so sad I couldn't get myself to read the book. Hey...I've asked this question before and no one has been able to answer me. Missing fingers in the movie...were never explained and I was told that it was never explained in the book either. What were the missing fingers about?

[crashdive123]

Think french fries or Vienna sausages.

[kyratshooter]

I wanted to read The Road, but after watching the movie...I was so sad I couldn't get myself to read the book. Hey...I've asked this question before and no one has been able to answer me. Missing fingers in the movie...were never explained and I was told that it was never explained in the book either. What were the missing fingers about?

Rick is probably right. I did not even note the missing fingers thing and can not stand watching the movie again to try and figure it out.

I did get a kick out of the last 5 minutes of the film when the Dad dies and the kid is taken in by the family.

The one bit of information the survivor gave the kid, if he was going to remain out on his own, was "stay off the roads"!
In other words, everything the Father could have done wrong he managed to do.

If you get off the road you might stay alive, find some ammo and food, avoid the canabal masses.

So, all you bug outters, happy hiking! Need a shopping cart?

[BENESSE]

It is a seriously disturbing movie. Makes you think.
Nothing comes as a huge surprise in it and I hope it never comes to that.
Similar things (and worse) have happened throughout recorded history, and given human nature, there's no reason to believe that we've evolved in that respect. I have, but I'm afraid of the ones who haven't. And they are in the majority or else the world wouldn't be where it is today.

[Sourdough]

Agreed. I would stay the heck away from state land in a situation where I had to bug out. Thankfully I have access to a family cabin I can go to...but even then if it's quite a ways a way...there could be someone else there by the time you made it there. IMO, a plan is good to have...but even the best plans can fail. That's why I will always have the car and tent as a back up just in case. That's if I have to leave my house at all. ;)

Sorry, I don't understand why you would choose living in your car or family cabin, and avoid wilderness cabins......?????

[LowKey]

The Survivor family had been following the son and dad for quite some time, heading south just like them but apparently staying just off the road. (Whose dog was scratching at the door of the storm shelter and who was the little boy the son had seen?)
Never noticed the missing fingers.

[kyratshooter]

Sorry, I don't understand why you would choose living in your car or family cabin, and avoid wilderness cabins......?????

Sourdough, the point is that here in the east we do not have wilderness cabins. Our cabins are in the resort parks. Some are even built like condos in blocks fo 25-50 units. Even the few "isolated" cabins are still drive up situations with easy access. It is not like your Alaskan experience at all.

http://parks.ky.gov/reservations/rooms/

When you put anapplication in for a job with our State park system the first question on the application is "how much resort hotel experience have you had?" Not how many wildflowers can you identify or how much SAR training you have.

We have backup plans for the back up plans because we know the traffic will not allow our primary plan to succeed.

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/rita_houstonians_running_out_of_gas_in_evacuation_ traffic_jams/

That is what Houston looked like BEFORE huricane Rita. It ain't pretty and it ain't Alaska.

[BENESSE]

On an "average" weekday it can take up to 45 minutes crawling by cab to get from the upper east side to the Lincoln tunnel (mid west side) on the way to Newark airport. Can you imagine if the city was bugging out?
It's a whole different world out here--the movies aren't exaggerating, take my word for it. You don't want to bug out if you don't have to.

[Rick]

Bugging out doesn't have to imply humping a pack and hiking anywhere. Survival doesn't have to mean humping a pack and hiking anywhere. Our friends along the coast bug out every hurricane season (usually). So do those who live with the threat of wildfire. Boots in the field doesn't mean anything to me like it does to the OP but mine still get muddy and I don't sit in front of a TV to live my life. I enjoy being outdoors but I'm not looking for some distant piece of earth as a bug out location. I have my kits and my bags and my gear. I use them. I practice with them and if the time comes I ever need them then I'll use them for real and if I'm lucky and the stars are all aligned and my name doesn't happen to be written in the big book yet then I'll make it.

If some cabin in the woods is a viable location for you then go for it. Your opinion is just as valid as the next person. But please don't chastise folks because they don't believe the same as you. I happen to STRONGLY believe that my job as a father and grandfather has been met, lived up to, enjoyed, faced head on, battled adversity for them and me, and taught and retaught life's lessons proves my living life to the fullest and my success. So does my faith and my job as a husband. So do a lot of other things many of which don't have a thing to do with the outdoors. That means my life is filled with a lot of things and I don't have time to spend hiking and exploring. But I am doing what I choose to do.

And if you didn't believe in fiat money you wouldn't have the first weapon, the first round of ammo and no boots. So that's a load of whooie for sure. How else are you going to keep score?

[crashdive123]

Bugging out used to be so much easier than it is today. We'd just cast off all lines, drive the boat to deep water, submerge.

[Rick]

Yeah, but packing it was a whole different ball game. 12,000 eggs, 2000 rolls TP, first aid kit, doctor, nursing staff, missiles, torpedoes...you know, the usual.

[crashdive123]

No doctor or nursing staff. Plenty of bacon though. Bacon cures a lot of ills.

[Rick]

You didn't have hospital corpsmen onboard? I figured ever sub had a couple. But, yeah, bacon is good.

[crashdive123]

Yep - one Corpsman. No doctors, and sadly, no nursing staff.

[Trabitha]

Sourdough, the point is that here in the east we do not have wilderness cabins. Our cabins are in the resort parks. Some are even built like condos in blocks fo 25-50 units. Even the few "isolated" cabins are still drive up situations with easy access. It is not like your Alaskan experience at all.

http://parks.ky.gov/reservations/rooms/

When you put anapplication in for a job with our State park system the first question on the application is "how much resort hotel experience have you had?" Not how many wildflowers can you identify or how much SAR training you have.

We have backup plans for the back up plans because we know the traffic will not allow our primary plan to succeed.

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/rita_houstonians_running_out_of_gas_in_evacuation_ traffic_jams/

That is what Houston looked like BEFORE huricane Rita. It ain't pretty and it ain't Alaska.

Exactly. Our state parks would be inundated with "city folk" and the unprepared who want to get out of town and have on other plans. It will the the exact area to avoid if you're prepared out here. Just best to stay home if you can...and if you MUST leave...stay out of public/state parks.

[Trabitha]

Think french fries or Vienna sausages.

Ick...yeah...you're probably right though. LOL!

[Seniorman]

I suggest that those who read fiction and figure if TSHTF, they'll just grab their bug out bag, their AR 15 and Glock, and 2,000 rounds of ammo, and run up to the high country or forests to survive alone, buy a copy of "The Ridgerunner, Elusive Loner Of The Wilderness," by Richard Ripley, Back Eddy Books Publs., (c)1986.

This is the true story of Bill Moreland, who was living -- or existing -- alone, in the harsh wilderness of central Idaho, in the mountains around the remote St. Joe and Clearwater rivers, in the late 1930s and mid-'40s. He sometimes stole a few items from remote Forest Service cabins or lookouts, suffered miserably, and finally was caught. He "lived off the land," mainly, was a superb woodsman, but still barely survived.

"Bugging out to the wilderness," really isn't going to be nearly as romantic as a lot of people seem to think.

Just a suggestion. :thumbup1:

S.M.

[Rick]

That's why places like Sanctuary on Camelback Moutain, St. Regis Holel, Wauwinet, Amangani, and the Auberge du Soleil are all real high on my bug out destinations. If things get REALLY bad I think Sandals or Club Med might be the better choice.:creepy:

[Seniorman]

I'm with you, Rick. :D

S.M.

[BENESSE]

"Bugging out to the wilderness," really isn't going to be be nearly as romantic as a lot of peole seem to think.

Just a suggestion. :thumbup1:

S.M.

Not I, SM! Nothing romantic about that.
Being able to survive is also knowing and working within your limitations. Unless you've got nothing to loose.

[Rick]

Or nothing to work with. Some of us will probably survive just because no one wants to waste a bullet. What ever works I say.

[dnotestine]

My first post on this forum :-)

One of the best bug out ideas I've heard is following the power line routes with a four wheeler. Perhaps some well planned storage of gas and supplies buried along the way. It might give one an hour two head start. One could use Google maps to chart a course.

Trying the roads would be a nightmare. Millions of cars would start with a 1/4 tank of gas. Everyone taking such a route would be walking immediately. Plus the rural people would already have bridges blown and each town along the route would be a major battle getting through them.

I live very rural and people currently living here probably wouldn't want new comers overtaxing their community, which will be lucky to support them. I believe the roads and trails would be barricaded immediately, backed up with lots of guns that exist in the rural areas.

[Rick]

Welcome. It's a good idea but what do you do when those power lines cross rivers or lakes?

[dnotestine]

Planning - plus there will be fences and other objects - but with Google maps and scouting the path beforehand, one can hopefully find a route that will get them in the direction they need to go.

[Sourdough]

My first post on this forum :-)



I live very rural and people currently One of the best bug out ideas I've heard is living here probably wouldn't want new comers overtaxing their community, which will be lucky to support them. I believe the roads and trails would be barricaded immediately, backed up with lots of guns that exist in the rural areas.

Man, I wish I lived Rural, Dude you like got it made man...........

[Winter]

Different kind of rural SD. You're getting grumpy bro, take a trip the Anchorage and a strip club.

Taking power right of ways is a good idea. Most people you would run into are , at least, thinking harder than the rest. This could provide possible companions for your trip.

Look at rivers and creeks themselves as passage. A guy with a canoe in flatland Virginia, for instance, can get out into the sticks.

SD here, lives in the backwoods. I live 100m from the backwoods or the ocean. I worry about you guys down south.

[Sourdough]

I am just having my period.........My newest Kelty (Escape & Evasion) Pack should be here tomorrow, and three new tents should arrive tomorrow or Tuesday. I am making survival burritos and freezing them. Soon me and the Gold Pan are gone prospecting.

[Sparky93]

I wish we I had gold deposits around here I love gold prospecting but the only chance I get is when my family and I go on vacation out west.

[Winnie]

I am just having my period.........My newest Kelty (Escape & Evasion) Pack should be here tomorrow, and three new tents should arrive tomorrow or Tuesday. I am making survival burritos and freezing them. Soon me and the Gold Pan are gone prospecting.

That does it "Dude". That first remark was rude and insensitive. You've just about exhausted my patience with your sniping and innuendo. Get that Bug out of your Backside, be a man and apologise for it.
And while you're at it, a general apology for your recent behaviour wouldn't be a bad idea either.

[Rick]

Sparky - You do have gold deposits in your back yard! You won't find nuggets in most places but there's quite a bit of placer and flour gold. You can pan at both Yellowwood Forest and at Morgan-Monroe Forest. Just contact the forest office and tell them you want a permit to pan (you must have one) and they will send you one free of charge. Another place close to you is Salt Creek at Gatesville. You can access the creek right behind the Gatesville Store. They are really good folks and don't mind you panning there. You can even spend the night camping if you choose. I've seen high bankers working the creek at Gatesville. We've just panned. You can find some small nuggets at Gatesville as well as Garnets and Diamonds if you are lucky. All of it left by the glaciers.

If you want a bit further trip then try Big Pine Creek up in Warren County. I've seen floating sluices and high bankers working the Twin Bridges area. Some of it is on private property and I'm told it's now posted so you have to get permission but there is a lot of placier gold in Big Pine.

Adam's Mill is another place up in Carroll County. I've panned downstream from the covered bridge about one block or less.

Both it and the Big Pine are fairly shallow when the water is down. Salt Creak is generally six inches or so when the water is down but there are deep holes in it.

Thar's gold in them Hoosier Hills!!!!!

[Sourdough]

That does it "Dude". That first remark was rude and insensitive. You've just about exhausted my patience with your sniping and innuendo. Get that Bug out of your Backside, be a man and apologise for it.
And while you're at it, a general apology for your recent behaviour wouldn't be a bad idea either.

NOPE.........Man'up Cupcake, ain't no change coming from this cowboy. Anytime Krypshooter or anyone wants to get in my face they can expect me to stand my ground.

[Rick]

You're missing the afternoon soap operas aren't you? See? That one winter with TV was all it took. You haven't been the same since you found out As The World Turns was going off the air. Yeah, I know. It broke my heart too but a man just has to suck it up.

[Sparky93]

Sparky - You do have gold deposits in your back yard! You won't find nuggets in most places but there's quite a bit of placer and flour gold. You can pan at both Yellowwood Forest and at Morgan-Monroe Forest. Just contact the forest office and tell them you want a permit to pan (you must have one) and they will send you one free of charge. Another place close to you is Salt Creek at Gatesville. You can access the creek right behind the Gatesville Store. They are really good folks and don't mind you panning there. You can even spend the night camping if you choose. I've seen high bankers working the creek at Gatesville. We've just panned. You can find some small nuggets at Gatesville as well as Garnets and Diamonds if you are lucky. All of it left by the glaciers.

If you want a bit further trip then try Big Pine Creek up in Warren County. I've seen floating sluices and high bankers working the Twin Bridges area. Some of it is on private property and I'm told it's now posted so you have to get permission but there is a lot of placier gold in Big Pine.

Adam's Mill is another place up in Carroll County. I've panned downstream from the covered bridge about one block or less.

Both it and the Big Pine are fairly shallow when the water is down. Salt Creak is generally six inches or so when the water is down but there are deep holes in it.

Thar's gold in them Hoosier Hills!!!!!

Yah, I've heard about yellowwood and morgan monroe but have never been there, the only place I have tryed is on my family's property and it's all strip mine ground. We live in pike county and in my GPAA book it shows pike county as having small amounts of gold deposits but I have never put much effort into findin them.

[Shalako]

If this turns out to be a total societal breakdown, and I'm not predicting that it will, I seriouly doubt there will be enough Forest Service Cabins to make a dent in the demand for same. In such event, the Metro areas would likely quickly become impossible to survive in and getting out would quickly become very hazardous. Many would flee to the hinterlands-few would have the capability to survive there despite their belief to the contrary. A few hunting trips and hiking excursions will not likely to equip one with the skills necessary for long term survival.

[Shalako]

Yea dnotestine. I also live rural. If SHTF I will go to another location that's really far out and isolated. Down South most of the really rural areas are populated by people who are related or those who have known one another all their lives. Most will stick together in difficult times. They will do whatever it takes to support and protect them and theirs.

[Rick]

We've seen mass starvation during 1816's Year Without a Summer. We've seen the economic collapse 1929 to 1940 or so. We've seen societal migrations 1930 to 1940 Dust Bowl. We've seen massive natural and man-made disasters in the 1906 Earthquake, 1871 Chicago Fire and 2005's Hurricane Katrina. Not once, did we see massive pillaging and murder that folks claim is eminent. Not once did roving hordes rape, pillage and plunder everything in site. I have no idea where they dredge that up from because there sure is no past precedent they can point to.

[dnotestine]

Yea dnotestine. I also live rural. If SHTF I will go to another location that's really far out and isolated. Down South most of the really rural areas are populated by people who are related or those who have known one another all their lives. Most will stick together in difficult times. They will do whatever it takes to support and protect them and theirs.

Hi Shalako,

I live in Southern Appalachia, 90 miles from the nearest mall, very close to the Smoky Mountain Park. If you've seen Deliverance then you know where I live. For the movie buffs out there, the little boy with the lightbulb looking head, that played the banjo on the cabin porch, he's our Walmart greeter. Though Walmart is approx. 25 miles.

Its taken a while to get here but it was doable. I've been here about 6 years and will never be completely accepted by the locals. Many still have driveway signs that read "If you ain't kin, don't drive in". I've read the sign myself. Though I love the people here, self reliant, protective of their community and culture - all around good people. They will stick together as they are already used to helping one another. Farmer's markets are already springing up, more than normal. These country folk are growing more gardens than have been seen in a long time. When you ask, they know what's coming - they have good old fashion county sense.

The way the towns are located here are like beads on a string, walled in on the sides by mountains. Once the outside bridges are gone, zombies will have it tough to make it through. They'll have to fight for every inch. I believe that society will collapse for awhile. The world has never had so many people, close to half of them getting a check from the government and there are no more financial bubbles on the horizon so there is nothing that is going to improve the economy of the world. Its a house of cards. I ask anyone - What is out there that is going to fix things?

Let's hope for the best, plan for the worst.

[Mtman]

Did any of you guys catch the 6 o'clock news about the State of Minn. shutting down?
Over the last few weeks on the tube I keep hearing of economic problems, and government threatening to shut down.. Kind of creepy to hear about talk like this so early, [I wasn't expecting the real shut down to happen until latter part of 12' at the earliest..] But no crystal ball here either...
For what I understand about a "Government shutdown" is basically a U.S. bankruptcy, similar to an individual filing for bankruptcy. Then all debts are wiped clear, and a few years down the road they come out with a new money and start all over again.
I read a report long time ago, about an approx. 80 yr. economical cycle, and it was claimed that every capitalistic structured economy dating back to the Roman empire rises and collapse about every 80 yr.
Barbarians over took Room, Silver war wiped out the old confederate money system, crash of Oct. 1929 bottomed in Nov. 1932 but it wasn't until 1933 that the new money with the silver certificates came out. [to make the people "trust" in paper money again.. [then in 1970 the gov. collected all of them back and came out with different coins and paper money...
So I guess we're about ready & due to economically head south again..
The only Difference is, back in 1929, the population was just a few...compared to population explosion since then, so instead of seeing "Brother helping Brother" out like the old days, you have crowded cities where no one wants to have anything to do with people they don't know.. You can never tell who you're dealing with now days type of mind-set...so you have a woman raped right down town N.Y. in the middle of the day on a busy sidewalk and people look the other way so they can say; I didn't see anything... ain't my problem dude...
Maybe this is a little over drama here.. but hope you all will know what I'm trying to say about the "differences" between today's world and how it was 80 yrs. ago..
I sure hope things hold together for at least another so I can get our home sold to truck back to the mountains!!
Cheers!

[Rick]

Can you guys site sources or is that just your "gut" feeling or just things you make up? Let's see some of those awful numbers and I'd like to see your news article on the rape.

As to shut downs, Minnesota is certainly setting no precedent nor is it the first they've done so. The US government shut down in 1995, Minnesota shut down in 2005. New Jersey shut down in 2006, Pennsylvania in 2007 and now Minnesota again.

Anyone can come on here and cry wolf. Everyone can talk about how bad it is. At least show your sources to support your dire predictions.

[crashdive123]

The only Difference is, back in 1929, the population was just a few...compared to population explosion since then, so instead of seeing "Brother helping Brother" out like the old days, you have crowded cities where no one wants to have anything to do with people they don't know.. You can never tell who you're dealing with now days type of mind-set...so you have a woman raped right down town N.Y. in the middle of the day on a busy sidewalk and people look the other way so they can say; I didn't see anything... ain't my problem dude...
Maybe this is a little over drama here.. but hope you all will know what I'm trying to say about the "differences" between today's world and how it was 80 yrs. ago..
I sure hope things hold together for at least another so I can get our home sold to truck back to the mountains!!
Cheers!

On September 11, 2001 when the United States came under attack (not a controlled demolition) the entire country was united. That big city where "no one wants to have anything to do with people they don't know" all came together to recover and help those that were hurting. The entire country poured out their hearts, wallets, and time to help those city people they did not know. Time after time - event after event we see the majority of the country helping neighbors that they don't know. Sure there are small pockets of lawlessness, and of course the media is quick to cover the "sensational" stories (if it bleeds, it leads), but the majority of what happens are people helping people.

[NightShade]

Rick, Crash ........ Thank you.

[Shalako]

Rick, my Father and Grandfather lived through the Great Depression. They said they never witnessed any increase in crime the entire period. Of course they lived in a very remote area.I've been around a long time-already old. Age doesn't make one more intelligent, but it does add perspective if you pay attention during your life. No one knows how this will wind up-likely not as bad as many predict, but who knows. One thing to keep in mind is that peopl;e are very different now than they were many Years ago-no where as responsible generally. The difference is striking. Of course, as you mention, the apparently was no widespread violence during Katrina which gives one hope. Of course the situation was different also.

[Rick]

No one has a crystal ball to be able to predict the future so no option is off the table. But we can look at the past to give us some indication of how people will react in the future. People are people. Their norms do change but we are all basically the same with the same wants and needs.

Those of us that have lived a good long life have listened to a lot of nay sayers over many years. "This", whatever "this" was, has always been the one that will do us in. But, so far, we've kept plugging right along. I've been on the forum since 2007 and for four years I've listened to predictions of economic upheaval and social collapse and roving hoards of ne'er-do-wells, and bugging out to distant planets to avoid the thugs that are going to steal whatever you have. It's been four years (Yeah, but you just wait, it'll happen)!

If someone wants to post their opinion then have at it. Yours is as good as the next guys and no more right or wrong than any other. But when you start posting "facts" then you need to support those "facts". Post your source. That's all I ever ask. I hold myself to the same standard by the way. I'm an optimistic. I admit it. But I'll let you in on a little secret. I'm an optimist because I can look at the numbers and see we are not headed for all that windmill jousting I listed above.

And one more thing that I've posted on before....Everyone has some job that they have either gone to school for, been trained by their employer or industry, have received OJT for and/or have experience at. I listened to you guys talk about machining parts in the other thread and I would only have to make one post for you to know I'm not only not a machinist I have no earthly idea about any of it. And I don't see others arguing about this dimension or that calibration (see? I don't know). But when a post crops up on economics or finance suddenly everyone is an expert. You don't have to have any education, any training and experience and you don't even have to be successful in life to be an expert at predicting what will happen. I have been educated in economics and finance, I have been trained by my employer and the last years of my corporate life were spent managing corporate mergers. When I see some of the comments on finance they are as off base and (sadly) funny as my posts would be in the machining thread, or plumbing or HIVAC or name just about any profession you chose. Yet I've had forum members get mad at me if I suggest they are incorrect in their hypothesis. It's just like a clock pendulum swinging back and forth. Good times are good until the pendulum starts swinging back to the other side then they turn bad and on and on and so forth. It's called a business cycle. And we'll pull out of this one too.

Just post your sources. Please.

[dnotestine]

I agree about looking at history to see our future - There has been collapse of financial systems before and there is always a transitional period of time when many items are hard to find. Will it last a few months or years - who knows. IF and I say IF the dollar collapses - and many experts say there is a good chance of it, what happens when the majority of people can not purchase anything with those dollars? The ones that can, clean the stores out (look at hurricane preparedness). Others start to panic seeing they do not have supplies. The government will not be able to help, as it won't have any money that any one will want. Remember the chaos in Katrina, but imagine that in lots of cities. Do you trust the government to help all those cities? Don't take my word for it, do your own research - type into Google phrases like 'dollar decline' or 'gold standard' and read about what many are saying - make up your own mind. I read articles today of possible $5000 gold or $1000 silver. I think its farfetched but if it happens, I'll put a down payment on a house for a gold coin - or maybe buy one with a gold coin.

Yes, many will help others but there are just too many 'others'. Many of those 'others' have been trained to just sit and wait - all will be OK. Checks in the mail. What percentage of the population will get hungry and decide to start taking what they believe is rightfully theirs anyway? 5%, 10% or more? Its happened in the Soviet Union, Iraq, Haiti, Eastern block countries, all over the world, countries have collapsed. Rapes, genocide, killings, war lords, mutilation, pirates are in the news constantly. We can say it won't happen here and hopefully it won't BUT Its happened in other civilized countries. Take Yugoslavia, one of the most advanced countries in the world, went through years of genocide and chaos, after the fall of the Soviet Union.

Its plain crazy not to prepare. At least buy food and stock as much as you can. I've always felt storing is the best savings possible - better than a savings account, even better than gold or silver. We save for a rainy day and we'd buy groceries when the rainy day hit. Buy now with cheaper dollars and if you ever need money just don't buy groceries for awhile.

I do agree with Rick, lets look at facts and sources. Take a look at famine throughout history, causes and the potential now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine
"In 2007 Food riots have taken place in many countries across the world"

I just do not see anything economically that save the decline of the dollar. Oh but wait, there's more, possibly a global currency is on the horizon to save us. Does anyone have any faith in the idiots at the UN or IMF? I firmly believe that everyone should plan on living through at least 6 months of supply shortages. Wait then to see what happens, and hopefully you'll have the crops already in.

Hope for the best, plan for worst.

[DrewtheFungophile]

If SHTF and society collapsed, I would run to the Mountains with a pack of essentials. No cabin, No tent...no need. What I need will be found around me, and nothing will draw looters and other filth to the mountains.

[Rick]

It didn't happen in Katrina. It didn't happen in New York on 911. It didn't happen during the Loma Prieta earthquake or the Northridge earthquake. It didn't happen during the Chicago heatwave. It didn't happen during the Alabama tornadoes this year or the super outbreak in 1974. It didn't happen during the '93 blizzard in the Northeast. It's not gonna happen regardless of how much doomsayers hope for it.

[kyratshooter]

It didn't happen in Katrina. It didn't happen in New York on 911. It didn't happen during the Loma Prieta earthquake or the Northridge earthquake. It didn't happen during the Chicago heatwave. It didn't happen during the Alabama tornadoes this year or the super outbreak in 1974. It didn't happen during the '93 blizzard in the Northeast. It's not gonna happen regardless of how much doomsayers hope for it.

They have not shut off the welfare checks yet Rick!

[Rick]

Of course. I knew society had overlooked something. How fortunate that welfare checks did not exist in Noah's day. FEMA would have been stamped on the side of the ark and about 2/3 of the animals would have been lost.

[crashdive123]

Yes, Krat - you were right. Post deleted.

[Sparky93]

It's Okay krat, I liked it :)

[crashdive123]

I didn't say I didn't like it.

[dnotestine]

It didn't happen in Katrina. It didn't happen in New York on 911. It didn't happen during the Loma Prieta earthquake or the Northridge earthquake. It didn't happen during the Chicago heatwave. It didn't happen during the Alabama tornadoes this year or the super outbreak in 1974. It didn't happen during the '93 blizzard in the Northeast. It's not gonna happen regardless of how much doomsayers hope for it.

I agree with you that breakdown didn't happen in those cases, but perhaps it was because they were localized and fairly small in nature? They didn't happen on a large financial scale. What happens if the breakdown is nation wide or even world wide? Where it will take months or years to bring in or create the infrastructure to help. Lots of 'what ifs' but isn't that what preparation is all about? 'Be prepared' but not to the point it becomes your whole life.

I think Katrina is a good example of what might happen. 10s of thousands of people that just set and waited for help to come, not planning anything though they were warned. Then it was everyone else's fault that the help didn't come fast enough. There were brutal rapes and beatings in the stadium many of those were in. They destroyed the stadium to the tune of millions of dollars. What if help wasn't there for a month?

Check it out:
http://www.truth-it.net/the_superdome_after_hurricane_katrina.html

'Tired, hungry and traumatized by days spent under the damaged roof of a once-gleaming football stadium, the refugees of New Orleans have spoken of a nightmarish week living among the crazed and the desperate. Stories of rape, murder and suicide have emerged. Medical teams delivered babies in filthy conditions, with human feces never far away and fresh water in short supply. At least three were reported to have died.

… (A) man died in mysterious circumstances on Friday as a police car passed the New Orleans Convention Center, where equally squalid conditions forced many to sleep outside among streets full of rubbish. More than 24 hours later, his body, like so many others, had not been moved. 'Right where he fell,' Larry Martin told the Los Angeles Times. 'Like roadkill.'

On Saturday morning Africa Brumfield, 32, sat with relatives near the corpse of a young man in (the) streets around the convention center. He had died on Friday night as he walked in the street. 'There is rapes going on here. Women cannot go to the bathroom without men. They are raping them and slitting their throats,' she told Reuters.'
. Survivors Reveal Superdome Horror

What would have happened if this would have continued for weeks? Rick is right - it hasn't happened on a large scale in 'American' history - so far. But if you look at what happened in that stadium on a micro-scale, I firmly believe that with a large-scale problem, those same people and others like them, will get tired of just raping and beatings those close to them. I'm sure they would spread into other areas. Especially when they get real hungry.

[yellowcab]

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Chil (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/1182860)Istv (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/769658)�аза (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/823095)Герц (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/1246126)XVII (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/796114)Ioan (http://jobstress.ru/t/832962)Fior (http://jogformation.ru/t/1032661)Coto (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/1148082)Готь (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/1152145)О�ип (http://journallubricator.ru/t/1228992)Dima (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/1148084)thes (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/1180749)Fagg (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/1182258)Circ (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/1183615)книг (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/1180392)
Niki (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/1181471)XVII (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/813065)Кор� (http://kentishglory.ru/t/1183467)LOST (http://kerbweight.ru/t/1188004)Кото (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/820299)Скур (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/785105)Пиго (http://keyserum.ru/t/1181265)CD-д (http://kickplate.ru/t/1354619)Конц (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/1330421)Cold (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/1096521)Шеве (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/1308759)пред (http://kinozones.ru/film/5843)Брум (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/1199472)(Бор (http://kneejoint.ru/t/1134653)карм (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/1711234)
Дани (http://knockonatom.ru/t/1003235)Rodm (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/1210900)Челн (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/1436547)Варт (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/1250760)акти (http://laborracket.ru/t/1306615)Zone (http://labourearnings.ru/t/1548879)Zone (http://labourleasing.ru/t/1548589)Zone (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/1190961)Zone (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/1189618)R2A1 (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/1188903)Zone (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/1187233)Miyo (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/1193979)Zone (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/1192312)Zone (http://laggingload.ru/t/1190623)Zone (http://laissezaller.ru/t/1192262)
Zone (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/1192307)Miyo (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/1193982)Jord (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/1241132)Zone (http://lamphouse.ru/t/1185457)мен� (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/1185408)Zone (http://lancingdie.ru/t/1186848)R081 (http://landingdoor.ru/t/1189026)Haro (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/1320223)ПЛ-0 (http://landreform.ru/t/1187293)Zone (http://landuseratio.ru/t/1185640)Zone (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/1191418)би�е (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1177209)марк (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/1537764)kbps (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/1548)Frag (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/592040)

[yellowcab]

Доро (http://laterevent.ru/shop/1179516)Meta (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/453316)Wind (http://layabout.ru/shop/600617)Book (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/1326470)акад (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/443224)Book (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/794008)Diva (http://leaveword.ru/shop/1026099)2009 (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/446267)пред (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/789365)Jard (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/609639)функ (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/358597)1771 (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/788611)Befl (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/859776)ARAG (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/613263)Ковр (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/1175512)
Мета (http://manualchoke.ru/shop/1175823)прев (http://medinfobooks.ru/book/2485)trac (http://mp3lists.ru/item/5843)Pene (http://nameresolution.ru/shop/1151731)MERE (http://naphtheneseries.ru/shop/912394)Tref (http://narrowmouthed.ru/shop/462574)камн (http://nationalcensus.ru/shop/1065065)Ð*оÑ�Ñ� (http://naturalfunctor.ru/shop/642402)мÑ�чи (http://navelseed.ru/shop/106836)Fend (http://neatplaster.ru/shop/459432)Хмал (http://necroticcaries.ru/shop/185796)Wind (http://negativefibration.ru/shop/642375)Pock (http://neighbouringrights.ru/shop/652652)карт (http://objectmodule.ru/shop/471558)Zelm (http://observationballoon.ru/shop/97624)
happ (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/458318)вход (http://oceanmining.ru/shop/457825)zita (http://octupolephonon.ru/shop/571551)ЛитÐ* (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/150357)Grin (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/218329)КраÑ� (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/204735)Доук (http://onesticket.ru/shop/583306)граж (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/584782)Kiss (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/688736)Monk (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/688288)Внук (http://palmberry.ru/shop/691043)Фред (http://papercoating.ru/shop/680682)Hans (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/1027361)Ветл (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1173502)Ð*азм (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1174501)
проф (http://partfamily.ru/shop/1295583)юнке (http://partialmajorant.ru/shop/1176957)золо (http://quadrupleworm.ru/shop/1544492)Ли�о (http://qualitybooster.ru/shop/1544589)Яро� (http://quasimoney.ru/shop/598998)Alfr (http://quenchedspark.ru/shop/912846)Крот (http://quodrecuperet.ru/shop/1080851)Cook (http://rabbetledge.ru/shop/1400896)VIII (http://radialchaser.ru/shop/1412563)Vasi (http://radiationestimator.ru/shop/513308)Hell (http://railwaybridge.ru/shop/740122)теат (http://randomcoloration.ru/shop/914594)Howa (http://rapidgrowth.ru/shop/1077608)Hors (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru/shop/1400945)Одег (http://reachthroughregion.ru/shop/1401479)
Unde (http://readingmagnifier.ru/shop/516709)патр (http://rearchain.ru/shop/879107)Куше (http://recessioncone.ru/shop/879957)Тихо (http://recordedassignment.ru/shop/1643698)Step (http://rectifiersubstation.ru/shop/1659059)�ефе (http://redemptionvalue.ru/shop/1065413)Камы (http://reducingflange.ru/shop/1688124)Пи�а (http://referenceantigen.ru/shop/1695319)Jewe (http://regeneratedprotein.ru/shop/1773023)ба�- (http://reinvestmentplan.ru/shop/1776528)Holi (http://safedrilling.ru/shop/1822104)Huma (http://sagprofile.ru/shop/1823261)Пове (http://salestypelease.ru/shop/1855372)�лех (http://samplinginterval.ru/shop/1881242)преп (http://satellitehydrology.ru/shop/1917220)
Павл (http://scarcecommodity.ru/shop/1929768)�чет (http://scrapermat.ru/shop/1941455)�лов (http://screwingunit.ru/shop/1957767)Изме (http://seawaterpump.ru/shop/1969026)Fred (http://secondaryblock.ru/shop/1461270)Буты (http://secularclergy.ru/shop/1495101)орга (http://seismicefficiency.ru/shop/1515193)Rola (http://selectivediffuser.ru/shop/406668)абит (http://semiasphalticflux.ru/shop/1672531)Audi (http://semifinishmachining.ru/shop/1694227)kbps (http://spicetrade.ru/spice_zakaz/1548)kbps (http://spysale.ru/spy_zakaz/1548)kbps (http://stungun.ru/stun_zakaz/1548)Intr (http://tacticaldiameter.ru/shop/486433)Will (http://tailstockcenter.ru/shop/1758549)
теле (http://tamecurve.ru/shop/1769469)авто (http://tapecorrection.ru/shop/1775428)Spir (http://tappingchuck.ru/shop/490988)Зори (http://taskreasoning.ru/shop/503106)Криш (http://technicalgrade.ru/shop/1854744)Dire (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru/shop/1901471)�збу (http://telescopicdamper.ru/shop/1941445)Гофш (http://temperateclimate.ru/shop/856798)Бонд (http://temperedmeasure.ru/shop/915576)Мака (http://tenementbuilding.ru/shop/984496)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)авто (http://ultramaficrock.ru/shop/985534)Иллю (http://ultraviolettesting.ru/shop/487266)

[yellowcab]

audiobookkeeper.ru (http://audiobookkeeper.ru)cottagenet.ru (http://cottagenet.ru)eyesvision.ru (http://eyesvision.ru)eyesvisions.com (http://eyesvisions.com)factoringfee.ru (http://factoringfee.ru)filmzones.ru (http://filmzones.ru)gadwall.ru (http://gadwall.ru)gaffertape.ru (http://gaffertape.ru)gageboard.ru (http://gageboard.ru)gagrule.ru (http://gagrule.ru)gallduct.ru (http://gallduct.ru)galvanometric.ru (http://galvanometric.ru)gangforeman.ru (http://gangforeman.ru)gangwayplatform.ru (http://gangwayplatform.ru)garbagechute.ru (http://garbagechute.ru)
gardeningleave.ru (http://gardeningleave.ru)gascautery.ru (http://gascautery.ru)gashbucket.ru (http://gashbucket.ru)gasreturn.ru (http://gasreturn.ru)gatedsweep.ru (http://gatedsweep.ru)gaugemodel.ru (http://gaugemodel.ru)gaussianfilter.ru (http://gaussianfilter.ru)gearpitchdiameter.ru (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru)geartreating.ru (http://geartreating.ru)generalizedanalysis.ru (http://generalizedanalysis.ru)generalprovisions.ru (http://generalprovisions.ru)geophysicalprobe.ru (http://geophysicalprobe.ru)geriatricnurse.ru (http://geriatricnurse.ru)getintoaflap.ru (http://getintoaflap.ru)getthebounce.ru (http://getthebounce.ru)
habeascorpus.ru (http://habeascorpus.ru)habituate.ru (http://habituate.ru)hackedbolt.ru (http://hackedbolt.ru)hackworker.ru (http://hackworker.ru)hadronicannihilation.ru (http://hadronicannihilation.ru)haemagglutinin.ru (http://haemagglutinin.ru)hailsquall.ru (http://hailsquall.ru)hairysphere.ru (http://hairysphere.ru)halforderfringe.ru (http://halforderfringe.ru)halfsiblings.ru (http://halfsiblings.ru)hallofresidence.ru (http://hallofresidence.ru)haltstate.ru (http://haltstate.ru)handcoding.ru (http://handcoding.ru)handportedhead.ru (http://handportedhead.ru)handradar.ru (http://handradar.ru)
handsfreetelephone.ru (http://handsfreetelephone.ru)hangonpart.ru (http://hangonpart.ru)haphazardwinding.ru (http://haphazardwinding.ru)hardalloyteeth.ru (http://hardalloyteeth.ru)hardasiron.ru (http://hardasiron.ru)hardenedconcrete.ru (http://hardenedconcrete.ru)harmonicinteraction.ru (http://harmonicinteraction.ru)hartlaubgoose.ru (http://hartlaubgoose.ru)hatchholddown.ru (http://hatchholddown.ru)haveafinetime.ru (http://haveafinetime.ru)hazardousatmosphere.ru (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru)headregulator.ru (http://headregulator.ru)heartofgold.ru (http://heartofgold.ru)heatageingresistance.ru (http://heatageingresistance.ru)heatinggas.ru (http://heatinggas.ru)
heavydutymetalcutting.ru (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru)jacketedwall.ru (http://jacketedwall.ru)japanesecedar.ru (http://japanesecedar.ru)jibtypecrane.ru (http://jibtypecrane.ru)jobabandonment.ru (http://jobabandonment.ru)jobstress.ru (http://jobstress.ru)jogformation.ru (http://jogformation.ru)jointcapsule.ru (http://jointcapsule.ru)jointsealingmaterial.ru (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru)journallubricator.ru (http://journallubricator.ru)juicecatcher.ru (http://juicecatcher.ru)junctionofchannels.ru (http://junctionofchannels.ru)justiciablehomicide.ru (http://justiciablehomicide.ru)juxtapositiontwin.ru (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru)kaposidisease.ru (http://kaposidisease.ru)
keepagoodoffing.ru (http://keepagoodoffing.ru)keepsmthinhand.ru (http://keepsmthinhand.ru)kentishglory.ru (http://kentishglory.ru)kerbweight.ru (http://kerbweight.ru)kerrrotation.ru (http://kerrrotation.ru)keymanassurance.ru (http://keymanassurance.ru)keyserum.ru (http://keyserum.ru)kickplate.ru (http://kickplate.ru)killthefattedcalf.ru (http://killthefattedcalf.ru)kilowattsecond.ru (http://kilowattsecond.ru)kingweakfish.ru (http://kingweakfish.ru)kinozones.ru (http://kinozones.ru)kleinbottle.ru (http://kleinbottle.ru)kneejoint.ru (http://kneejoint.ru)knifesethouse.ru (http://knifesethouse.ru)
knockonatom.ru (http://knockonatom.ru)knowledgestate.ru (http://knowledgestate.ru)kondoferromagnet.ru (http://kondoferromagnet.ru)labeledgraph.ru (http://labeledgraph.ru)laborracket.ru (http://laborracket.ru)labourearnings.ru (http://labourearnings.ru)labourleasing.ru (http://labourleasing.ru)laburnumtree.ru (http://laburnumtree.ru)lacingcourse.ru (http://lacingcourse.ru)lacrimalpoint.ru (http://lacrimalpoint.ru)lactogenicfactor.ru (http://lactogenicfactor.ru)lacunarycoefficient.ru (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru)ladletreatediron.ru (http://ladletreatediron.ru)laggingload.ru (http://laggingload.ru)laissezaller.ru (http://laissezaller.ru)
lambdatransition.ru (http://lambdatransition.ru)laminatedmaterial.ru (http://laminatedmaterial.ru)lammasshoot.ru (http://lammasshoot.ru)lamphouse.ru (http://lamphouse.ru)lancecorporal.ru (http://lancecorporal.ru)lancingdie.ru (http://lancingdie.ru)landingdoor.ru (http://landingdoor.ru)landmarksensor.ru (http://landmarksensor.ru)landreform.ru (http://landreform.ru)landuseratio.ru (http://landuseratio.ru)languagelaboratory.ru (http://languagelaboratory.ru)largeheart.ru (http://largeheart.ru)lasercalibration.ru (http://lasercalibration.ru)laserlens.ru (http://laserlens.ru)laserpulse.ru (http://laserpulse.ru)

[yellowcab]

laterevent.ru (http://laterevent.ru)latrinesergeant.ru (http://latrinesergeant.ru)layabout.ru (http://layabout.ru)leadcoating.ru (http://leadcoating.ru)leadingfirm.ru (http://leadingfirm.ru)learningcurve.ru (http://learningcurve.ru)leaveword.ru (http://leaveword.ru)machinesensible.ru (http://machinesensible.ru)magneticequator.ru (http://magneticequator.ru)magnetotelluricfield.ru (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru)mailinghouse.ru (http://mailinghouse.ru)majorconcern.ru (http://majorconcern.ru)mammasdarling.ru (http://mammasdarling.ru)managerialstaff.ru (http://managerialstaff.ru)manipulatinghand.ru (http://manipulatinghand.ru)
manualchoke.ru (http://manualchoke.ru)medinfobooks.ru (http://medinfobooks.ru)mp3lists.ru (http://mp3lists.ru)nameresolution.ru (http://nameresolution.ru)naphtheneseries.ru (http://naphtheneseries.ru)narrowmouthed.ru (http://narrowmouthed.ru)nationalcensus.ru (http://nationalcensus.ru)naturalfunctor.ru (http://naturalfunctor.ru)navelseed.ru (http://navelseed.ru)neatplaster.ru (http://neatplaster.ru)necroticcaries.ru (http://necroticcaries.ru)negativefibration.ru (http://negativefibration.ru)neighbouringrights.ru (http://neighbouringrights.ru)objectmodule.ru (http://objectmodule.ru)observationballoon.ru (http://observationballoon.ru)
obstructivepatent.ru (http://obstructivepatent.ru)oceanmining.ru (http://oceanmining.ru)octupolephonon.ru (http://octupolephonon.ru)offlinesystem.ru (http://offlinesystem.ru)offsetholder.ru (http://offsetholder.ru)olibanumresinoid.ru (http://olibanumresinoid.ru)onesticket.ru (http://onesticket.ru)packedspheres.ru (http://packedspheres.ru)pagingterminal.ru (http://pagingterminal.ru)palatinebones.ru (http://palatinebones.ru)palmberry.ru (http://palmberry.ru)papercoating.ru (http://papercoating.ru)paraconvexgroup.ru (http://paraconvexgroup.ru)parasolmonoplane.ru (http://parasolmonoplane.ru)parkingbrake.ru (http://parkingbrake.ru)
partfamily.ru (http://partfamily.ru)partialmajorant.ru (http://partialmajorant.ru)quadrupleworm.ru (http://quadrupleworm.ru)qualitybooster.ru (http://qualitybooster.ru)quasimoney.ru (http://quasimoney.ru)quenchedspark.ru (http://quenchedspark.ru)quodrecuperet.ru (http://quodrecuperet.ru)rabbetledge.ru (http://rabbetledge.ru)radialchaser.ru (http://radialchaser.ru)radiationestimator.ru (http://radiationestimator.ru)railwaybridge.ru (http://railwaybridge.ru)randomcoloration.ru (http://randomcoloration.ru)rapidgrowth.ru (http://rapidgrowth.ru)rattlesnakemaster.ru (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru)reachthroughregion.ru (http://reachthroughregion.ru)
readingmagnifier.ru (http://readingmagnifier.ru)rearchain.ru (http://rearchain.ru)recessioncone.ru (http://recessioncone.ru)recordedassignment.ru (http://recordedassignment.ru)rectifiersubstation.ru (http://rectifiersubstation.ru)redemptionvalue.ru (http://redemptionvalue.ru)reducingflange.ru (http://reducingflange.ru)referenceantigen.ru (http://referenceantigen.ru)regeneratedprotein.ru (http://regeneratedprotein.ru)reinvestmentplan.ru (http://reinvestmentplan.ru)safedrilling.ru (http://safedrilling.ru)sagprofile.ru (http://sagprofile.ru)salestypelease.ru (http://salestypelease.ru)samplinginterval.ru (http://samplinginterval.ru)satellitehydrology.ru (http://satellitehydrology.ru)
scarcecommodity.ru (http://scarcecommodity.ru)scrapermat.ru (http://scrapermat.ru)screwingunit.ru (http://screwingunit.ru)seawaterpump.ru (http://seawaterpump.ru)secondaryblock.ru (http://secondaryblock.ru)secularclergy.ru (http://secularclergy.ru)seismicefficiency.ru (http://seismicefficiency.ru)selectivediffuser.ru (http://selectivediffuser.ru)semiasphalticflux.ru (http://semiasphalticflux.ru)semifinishmachining.ru (http://semifinishmachining.ru)spicetrade.ru (http://spicetrade.ru)spysale.ru (http://spysale.ru)stungun.ru (http://stungun.ru)tacticaldiameter.ru (http://tacticaldiameter.ru)tailstockcenter.ru (http://tailstockcenter.ru)
tamecurve.ru (http://tamecurve.ru)tapecorrection.ru (http://tapecorrection.ru)tappingchuck.ru (http://tappingchuck.ru)taskreasoning.ru (http://taskreasoning.ru)technicalgrade.ru (http://technicalgrade.ru)telangiectaticlipoma.ru (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)telescopicdamper.ru (http://telescopicdamper.ru)temperateclimate.ru (http://temperateclimate.ru)temperedmeasure.ru (http://temperedmeasure.ru)tenementbuilding.ru (http://tenementbuilding.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)ultramaficrock.ru (http://ultramaficrock.ru)ultraviolettesting.ru (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)