Survival Training Scenario

[pgvoutdoors]

This past weekend I use this training scenario in one of my classes. It got a lot of good responses, so I decided to put it on the forum. Read it over and post any key point you wish.

Wilderness Survival Scenarios
Gone Fishing

John and three friends have gone on a fishing trip deep into the Canadian wilderness. The outfitter has flown his group in by float plane, as the closest road to civilization is at least one hundred miles away. John has made plans for his group to be picked up in five days at the same landing site they were dropped off at.

By the morning of day four, John decides to get an early start on fishing a new location. He leaves a note saying “I’ve gone north to fish a new stream; I’ll be back by sunset.” He packs a lunch, two bottles of water, the map (the only one the group has), and his fishing equipment. He sets out at 6:00am, keeping the rising sun on his right to navigate north. John figures on locating the new fishing spot by 9:00am but he still hasn’t seen any signs of it. He looks over the map but is having trouble determining his current location. The terrain has many hills that look alike and the whole area is covered in tall pine trees. By 11:00am he decides to give up the search and stop and have lunch.

During lunch John looks over the map and realizes he has only a general idea where he may be – somewhere north of the camp. The sun is now high in the sky, making it very hard to navigate by. Its 12:00 noon and he heads in the direction he feels is generally south, and walks until 2:00pm. He sees nothing that looks familiar to him. He decides to push on but by 5:00pm he’s exhausted, hungry, and thirsty. He’s consumed all of his food and water. The sun is now starting to go behind the mountains and it will be dark in less than an hour. He decides to stay put for the night. All he wants to do is sleep.

By evening his friends realize that something has gone wrong for John not to have returned. Two of them decide to go look for him even though it’s dark and they have no idea where he is. They return after two hours of looking.

In the morning all three of John’s friends head out to find him and after six hours of searching they now are not sure where they are. With no map or compass, the men are starting to believe they will not find their way back to camp. They are forced to stop as they argue which way to go.

After a long cold night, John decides to continue his search for camp. He’s been without food or water for 18 hours and he feels exhausted. He wants to get back to camp before his friends come looking for him. He’s just not sure which way to go.

[your_comforting_company]

One of the first mistakes he made was following the sun. It moves across the sky all day long, and it's entirely possible to walk a big circle by doing so. Another was not having a compass or way to communicate with his group. Now he's gone from being a danger to himself, to being a danger to his whole group. That alone should drive home the point that you don't wander off by yourself in unfamiliar territory. I'm sure there are lots of other things to mention in there, but I'm out of time.. gotta head to work!

[EX121]

I think that instead of all of the friends looking for him, one should build a fire on a prominent hill top & hope to attract John. If the others then space themselves out on other hill tops (remaining in sight of each other) they could visually cover more ground safely. If they have whistles they should blow them periodically. John could also build a fire and make smoke to help attract attention.
One of the worst things he can do is to keep walking when he doesn't have a clue about where he is & where he is walking too.

[kyratshooter]

"When Idiots Get Lost"

Sounds like something for the cable survival shows. These guys would hurt themselves grilling burgers on the back porch.

4 people fishing in the Canadian woods and no compass in sight? Leaving camp alone? Roaming in circles?

Tell us now, do they all die?

Now tell us the downside.

Questions:
Why are they fishing with no guide?
Why were they released in the wilderness buy the bush pilot witout proper gear?
Why has Canada turned into a desert with water only in scattered lakes that seem to be difficult to find?

[pgvoutdoors]

"
Questions:
Why are they fishing with no guide?
Why were they released in the wilderness buy the bush pilot witout proper gear?
Why has Canada turned into a desert with water only in scattered lakes that seem to be difficult to find?

Many back-country fishing and hunting trips are done without guides. You can arrange the trip through an outfitter that in most cases will instruct you ahead of time on how to prepare. Good outfitters will ask to see your basic equipment prior to departure, but unfortunately many don't. Even if they provide the gear, check it yourself, at times it may not be complete. The bush pilots are just your transportation, you are expected to be ready by the time they pick you up. They may support more than one outfitter.

I don't quite understand your last question but I'll give it a try. Canada has many lakes and rivers especially in the north. The problem John was having was finding a particular fishing spot he was looking for. As far as being thirsty after he drank the two bottles of water he had brought with him, that has a few points to be discussed. Water availability is just one of them.

[kyratshooter]

Sorry, I just get frustrated with some of these half though out senerios where no one has an IQ above 80.


Does Darwin know this is going on?

[hunter63]

So did they die?
It's fun to play "what if games", but I get frustrated, as well, as the seems to always be the "answer", and I never seem to think that way, so I'm always "wrong"

My opinion would be....if they didn't die, how ever stupid they may be...that answer is "right".

That said, head down hill to water, both groups, to the biggest landing spot a plane could use and start a big fire.

Actually had heard a story, true or not, of a situation where one of a group of fisherman had appendicitis, so they set an island on fire to attract the fire wardens.
And the guy survived, group was in big trouble.

[ryaninmichigan]

What exactly are you looking for? What they did wrong? What should they do now?

Only a fool goes that deep into the bush with out a compass and the knowlege on how to use it corectly. Or a way to start a fire for that matter.

When he figured out he was lost he should have sat down. Sat down and did nothing for about 10 minutes, Get it in his head he is lost and is not leaving with out help. The went to his plan B.

The people back at camp should have had there own copy of the map. Four guys one map? dumb idea. there should have been at least two copies.

Sounds like people with no back woods expierence were turned lose. Another bad idea.

[pgvoutdoors]

Let me make it clear for all that believe they have a need to comment on every thread on the forum. That is fine, "IF" you have something pertinent to say. Commenting to just criticize the thread is not welcome. If you believe you are the only one that belongs in the wilderness, that's being narrow minded. Many members of the forum try to post incite that can be beneficial to people trying to better their wilderness skills. Poking fun at someone trying to learn is wrong. Poking fun at imaginary people in an scenario is just stupid! If you do not like the thread move on to another one or start one of your own. It took only three posts before a troll comment was made. I don't know why it's come to this, but trolls are becoming a real problem. This is why many good members have stopped posting.

This scenario brought up over a hundred good points that were discussed in the class I used it in. It's a training scenario as the title of the thread states, "What If" is the method of the training used here. If you don't believe in this method of training, don't participate. Simple enough! If you're just a troll, well forums let you run off at the mouth because - hits on the site are hits, and that means money.

This is not a test of anyones skills, just a chance to share some incite on wilderness survival. Remember - the members of this forum provide the quality of the forums content, but they only make up a very small percentage of the viewers. I try to contribute good information. I do not like to make comments like the ones in this post, but it has to be said now and then so that people visiting the forum knows that we try to work around the foolish comments of some people to provide good information.

[pgvoutdoors]

What exactly are you looking for? What they did wrong? What should they do now?

Sounds like people with no back woods experience were turned lose. Another bad idea.

Yes to both questions. There are many things that could have been done differently as well as things that could of be done once the first sign of trouble became apparent. No need to break down the whole thing at once. It's a given that they were not prepared well, what could of they done better? It's true that they made a lot of mistakes, but those mistakes not as uncommon as some may think.

The scenario is not spelled out exactly for a reason, everyone that reads it will relate differently base on their own experiences and knowledge.

[ryaninmichigan]

Yes to both questions. There are many things that could have been done differently as well as things that could of be done once the first sign of trouble became apparent. No need to break down the whole thing at once. It's a given that they were not prepared well, what could of they done better? It's true that they made a lot of mistakes, but those mistakes not as uncommon as some may think.

The scenario is not spelled out exactly for a reason, everyone that reads it will relate differently base on their own experiences and knowledge.

IMO here is what they did wrong.

1. Compasses for everyone.
2. When he left to fish somewhere else he should have circled on the map a genral area he was headed to. I don't buy into the don't go alone thing. I go all over alone. But people know where I am headed and when I should be back.
3. He should have had at the least a fire starter with him.
4 When he realized he was lost he should have sat down and built a fire. Grabed some green off the pine trees and threw it on the fire. and QUIT moving. theonly thing harder to find then a needle in a hay stack is a moving needle.
5. They should have had a plan for "if I am not back by this time, send help.
6. They did not all need to go look for him. Someone shoudl have stayed at the original meeting spot.
7. Long range walky talkies would have solved a lot of this.

I am sure there is more this is, just off the top of my head.

[pgvoutdoors]

Very good start ryaninmichigan. Thank you.

[pgvoutdoors]

As many of you know, most survival situations are because of failure to prepare properly or very poor judgment. It happens all the time!

[ryaninmichigan]

I will admit to having more then one unexpected camping trip while in the woods in my youth. Form young and dumb syndrome.

[pgvoutdoors]

One of the first mistakes he made was following the sun. It moves across the sky all day long, and it's entirely possible to walk a big circle by doing so.

A major point here. Navigating by the sun takes experience and for most people a very difficult thing to do reliably. Chances are John wasn't even truly north of the camp as he thought. As he tried to go back to the camp he more than likely got even further off course in the afternoon.

[pgvoutdoors]

I think that instead of all of the friends looking for him, one should build a fire on a prominent hill top & hope to attract John. .

If you have a person looking for you, you need to make yourself visible. John may be the one lost but the camp is lost to him. He is looking for the camp, so the camp needs to be visible in as many ways as possible, just like a lost person would do if they were waiting for someone to find them.

[pgvoutdoors]

Another was not having a compass or way to communicate with his group. Now he's gone from being a danger to himself, to being a danger to his whole group. That alone should drive home the point that you don't wander off by yourself in unfamiliar territory.

Anytime your actions force the group to do things outside their abilities, you have become an even bigger liability. People can panic if they feel a friend or family member is in dander. Responding to a bad situation without thinking it through first will usually lead to a more complicated problem down the road. Risking life unnecessarily to save a life is a bad move. The two friends leaving the camp at night without any means of navigation could of compounded the problem. They were lucky to be able to return to camp.

[Alaskan Survivalist]

I advocate self rescue. Don't put yourself in a situation you can't get yourself out of. Take responsibilty for your own actions and let others suffer the consequences of thiers. I would tell John the risks before he did it and if he insists on doing it anyway, thats his problem. If just seperating for agreed upon reasons people I know carry 44's and will fire 3 shots if they need help. Just how I was raised long before thier was anybody to come to your rescue but I would have the pilot picking me up to fly the area low to see if we could find John if he had not shown up by then and make report of it.

[pgvoutdoors]

Just how I was raised long before their was anybody to come to your rescue but I would have the pilot picking me up to fly the area low to see if we could find John if he had not shown up by then and make report of it.

The pilot was scheduled to arrive for them on the fifth day, that would be sometime on the next day after he got lost. If he was thinking clearly, John would sit tight and deploy as many signaling methods as possible. (what are some he may be able to use?) Once the pilot spoke to the men at camp he could take back off and look over the area for John. When he located him, he could determine a route to be used to reach him.

Why do you think John wanted to try to get himself back to camp before his friends found him? What goes through a persons mind when lost?

[Alaskan Survivalist]

There is a bit of common sense that seems to have been lost. If you are ever to get lost go back the same way you got there. Don't press on into the unknown or try to take shortcuts back. The options available today are endless, cell phones, strobe lights, helium balloons marking your position, etc. It truely is amazing what Search and Rescue is capable of. That said....self rescue is still acknowedged as the most immediate help you'll get. John should learn for himself. Sometimes people need experiences like this to teach them they are not as smart as they think they are. Getting lost in the woods is not an automatic death sentence. He'll know better the next time.

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

I enjoyed the exercise PGV. There are a few that weighed in I'd love to take down in Sparkleberry Swamp with their compasses, Park the boat and say your turn to drive take us back to the landing. Understanding of the direction the current flows, the knowledge of the river that flows through the swamp. The growth of old woods and even the color of the sand bars is how I navigate it. A man over 50 dies there every year. It was my primary incentive for joining this website. Dead reckoning is out the window...there are no land marks. Moss grows on all sides of all trees. If you go in Sparkleberry you go prepared...period.

[pgvoutdoors]

There are a few that weighed in I'd love to take down in Sparkleberry Swamp with their compasses, Park the boat and say your turn to drive take us back to the landing.

I understand your feelings Cowboy. Some people feel that mistakes are only made by total idiots. It's "That would never happen to Me" way of thinking. Or, when the WTSHTF I'll just use my gun to solve all my problems. All I can figure is they just don't really know what it's like to be in the real Sh**.

As a guide I've seen a lot of mistakes made by people trying to have a good time in the wilderness. The scenario has some of the most common mistakes people make, there is nothing unrealistic about it. Search and rescue teams see it all the time.

For all of you that haven't ever had to work with others while in the wilderness, it's not much different than the people you may work with every day. Do you believe all of them make the best decisions in work and life? I'm sure all of you can think of someone you like but would never want to work with. These types of people are the ones that become liabilities in the woods as well. Unless people have been trained to think alike, most people respond to a situation differently. Woodsman skills are learned and reinforced by experience just like other life skills. So when looking at a training scenario, look at it through your eyes first and then the eyes of different types of people.

We all know the world doesn't all think alike. Put together any group of four people and you will have major differences in the way they approach a problem. The goal here is to approach the scenario in as many ways as possible. What could have that person been thinking? What could he have done differently? What would you have done to avoid the problems the people in the scenario were having. Remember, if the trip went perfect, there wouldn't be anything to discuss.

[pgvoutdoors]

The main point Cowboy hit on was knowing how to navigate. John didn't have a compass with him, it could of been because he forgot to bring one or (and this is more common than you may think) he didn't carry one because he doesn't know how to use one. Too many people lack even the most basic of land navigation skills. The main reason is, it takes time to learn. Most people will not practice to the point that they are confidant with their skills.

John did take the map but it didn't seemed to give him much help. As cowboy stated, good observation skills is one of the best navigation tools. The one reference John did choose to use was the sun, but that has been pointed out to be a moving reference, very hard to navigate by.

John pictured in his mind the new location he wanted to fish by looking at the map. That mental picture didn't seem to match up with what he saw while looking for it. Poor map reading skills could of contributed to that. He also could have been way off course due to his navigation by the sun.

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

Let' say you have a compass and your an expert at due South, It doesnt matter much if both sides of the landing are due south and an infinate swamp is on both sides of the ramp your still cold and your still soon to be dead...Know where you are to start with...don't get lost..lost in Sparkleberry isn't really an option.

[pgvoutdoors]

Well, no one wants to be lost and most don't set-out to be lost either. I agree, there are many places in the world where it's best not to get your self lost and in those places your odds of survival are slim at best. A survivor never gives up though!

As Cowboy points out, compass skills alone will not be much help in those kind of places. His skills of observation seem to be his key to staying on course. Knowing what to look for and keeping track of where you are will go a long way.

Another key point - always stay within your abilities.

[FVR]

And this is the reason I don't hike, hunt, or go wilderness stomping with numptys. Been there, done that, had to travel over 2 mountains to find a so called seasoned hunter.

[SARKY]

Compasses and maps for everyone. Maybe even A gps. A full pocket survival kit. One extra map in camp to show where you plan on going marked on the map. Some form of comunication or signal system all prearranged.

[Alaskan Survivalist]

It should be mentioned that in the north the sun will be in a southerly direction at noon and if its starting to get dark at 5 oclock you are well into November. Just saying.

[TAHAWK]

Very open scenario.

You could discuss what was done wrong by John, the group of two, the group of three, and the entire group -- both before they left and at various points in time.

You could discuss what John should have done instead at various points, and ditto for the Group of Two and Group of Three (which we left lost away from camp and arguing)

We don't know if he has the means to start a fire. What should he have?

In a teaching situation, the learners may take the discussion one way or another, but all good if learning is going on.

[Wildthang]

I could list an entire page of what these guys did wrong, but that is too much work, so instead I will sum it up in the condensed version:

1. Lack of planning, basicall no plan at all.

2. Lack of experience, apparently no experience at all.

3. Lack of proper gear for survival, experience would have fixed that problem!

All other mistakes would fit somewhere into these categorys!

[Batch]

A man over 50 dies there every year.

Cowboy, what does that mean?

http://www.midlandsconnect.com/news/story.aspx?id=396497#.UU8VwFdTmdw

I assume you are talking about the 1 guy I could find an article about dying between the landing and his camp. Since he regularly camped in the same spot (half of his 51 years) and he was found between his normal camp and the place he normally put in. I would bet it is REAL safe to say he wasn't lost. While I didn't see a mention of the cause of death it seems the Sparkleberry swamp had little to do with his death. I have never been to that particular swamp. But, most swamps I have been in don't have very strong currents. That is how they become swamps. This guy was found against a tree less than 100 yards from where his canoe was found and he was found in 4' of water.

http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/2000/03/12/met_283830.shtml

This article says he drowned. He didn't die of hypothermia. He drowned in relatively shallow water. He didn't have a life vest on. The cause of his death wasn't the swamp. It was improper boater safety. A guy who has been canoeing for 25 years probably could right a canoe in 4' of water. I would bet it was compounded by a heart attack or something. My wife's boss died from drowning caused by a heart attack. He was kayaking with a friend. The friend looked back and saw Ron face down in the water while still in his kayak. He was wearing a PDF, but because he was still in his kayak the vest couldn't right him.

Any articles about people actually being lost in Sparkleberry?

As for the scenario outlined, I go out in pretty vast areas in the everglades region. I go out with a mix of true gladesmen, self proclaimed country boys and some true woodsmen as well as inexperienced people. Most people don't carry anything of use in this scenario. Folks who smoke will have a lighter usually. though I have had folks that smoke ask for a light. LOL

The ones who do carry a compass, a firestarter or some means of signalling usually don't practice with it very much if at all. I see people walk off into the woods with nothing but a half liter bottle of water all the time. In a place where the heat can kill and a minimum of one gallon per person is the recommended amount.

I have three signal mirrors in my pack. One is a small rescue medic I think that I cut down to fit into a Newt Livesay knife kit. The other two are a lexan 2.75 X 4.25" by ACR and a 3" X 5' glass signal mirror by Star something or another. Which one is the best signal mirror and how do I know?

I have half a dozen or more signal whistles. Which one is the loudest?

I can navigate fairly well by the sun. But, how do I know? Because I regularly test myself and others and then use the compass to verify. Starting in camp when people go to pitch their tent and want to find a shady spot. You'll see them go to set up where their tent will get full sun. Which way is east? LOL

Like I have posted here before people walk or ride out into the swamp down here and never come back. Imagine you walk off of the main road into an area 100 yards from your friends. You get turned around and fire 3 shots in the air with your 12 gauge. They fire back in return. They can even hear your yells. At night you can hear the traffic on the interstate and on Turner River Road. This is the beginning of your 4 day ordeal in the Big Cypress Swamp.


“I never saw woods like these woods before,” Mosch said of the Everglades. “This is something like you’d see in hell. Think of the worst jungle you can imagine and times it by 10.”

http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2009/nov/22/lost-hunter-talks-jamey-mosch-stalked-everglades-p/


“Until you’ve been there, you won’t believe how mean the Big Cypress is and how hard you need to prepare for a trip,” Cooper offers. “Last year it took us 2 1/2 hours to go 2 1/2 miles. We know this because we tracked our progress using a GPS.”

http://www.gameandfishmag.com/2010/09/30/hunting_whitetail-deer-hunting_fl_aa080904a/


"It's pretty treacherous here at night with the mosquitoes," said Lt. Mike Marks, of Miami-Dade Fire Rescue. "I don't know how he would survive that at night here with the mosquitoes."

"Do you consider yourself an outdoorsman?" Local 10's Todd Tongen asked.

"Yes," Marks said.

"Do you think you could be out there for six days?" Tongen asked.

"No," Marks said.

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2013/02/08/Lost-python-hunters-rescued-in-Everglades/UPI-58491360305000/

http://www.local10.com/news/Man-Missing-In-Everglades-National-Park/-/1717324/3074924/-/bx62rfz/-/index.html


"That's a tough environment between insects, snakes and alligators," Kronheim said. "It's quite a survival story."

http://www.sptimes.com/2003/06/17/State/Man_rescued_after_nig.shtml


Finding your way is difficult by boat and almost impossible on foot, Birenbaum said. "It's not an easy place to survive."


http://www.storm2k.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=85821


“It appeared he was a little overheated and a little dizzy, so we sat him down, gave him some water and put his feet up and let him rest,” said scoutmaster Howard Crompton, who was leading the 17-year-old and two younger boys on the hike Saturday through Big Cypress National Preserve in the Everglades.

“Then he stopped breathing.”

http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2009/may/10/weston-teen-dies-while-hiking-fellow-boy-scouts-bi/

and I could post stories of flipped airboats and broken down airboats and buggies all day and still not scratch the surface.

[Wildthang]

Well that Sparkleberry swamp must be some kind of place. If I ever go there I am taking a GPS with lots of extra batteries:scared:

[Batch]

It should be mentioned that in the north the sun will be in a southerly direction at noon and if its starting to get dark at 5 oclock you are well into November. Just saying.


There is a bit of common sense that seems to have been lost. If you are ever to get lost go back the same way you got there. Don't press on into the unknown or try to take shortcuts back. The options available today are endless, cell phones, strobe lights, helium balloons marking your position, etc. It truely is amazing what Search and Rescue is capable of. That said....self rescue is still acknowedged as the most immediate help you'll get. John should learn for himself. Sometimes people need experiences like this to teach them they are not as smart as they think they are. Getting lost in the woods is not an automatic death sentence. He'll know better the next time.

How well do cellphones work in everybody's woods. Spotty at best where I go. Usually you do not have cell phone coverage. Strobe lights are a good option for night if you can get within line of site of the rescuers. I have never heard of using helium balloons. Do you carry some kind of small helium cylinder?

As for the sun setting, I don't have much experience with mountains or up north. But, folks from Michigan have told me that we don't really have a twilight down here. How does a sun setting behind a mountain affect the available light. Wouldn't your proximity to the mountain be a deciding factor?

I think it is a great point that is made on the importance of the camp setting up means of signaling to the lost fisherman who is looking for them.

[Seniorman]

BATCH - "... How well do cellphones work in everybody's woods. Spotty at best where I go. Usually you do not have cell phone coverage."

Out here in the Rocky Mountains, there are many, many places out in the boonies where there is no cell phone coverage. It is not at all unusual for people to go playing around up in the thick forests and mountains, get lost, and find their cell phones don't work.

Being prepared never hurts. :helpsmilie: :nod:

S.M.

[Alaskan Survivalist]

How well do cellphones work in everybody's woods. Spotty at best where I go. Usually you do not have cell phone coverage. Strobe lights are a good option for night if you can get within line of site of the rescuers. I have never heard of using helium balloons. Do you carry some kind of small helium cylinder?

As for the sun setting, I don't have much experience with mountains or up north. But, folks from Michigan have told me that we don't really have a twilight down here. How does a sun setting behind a mountain affect the available light. Wouldn't your proximity to the mountain be a deciding factor?

I think it is a great point that is made on the importance of the camp setting up means of signaling to the lost fisherman who is looking for them.

The sun droping behind a mountain does not darken the entire sky only puts you in the shadow of the mountain. It's when it drops below the horizon it gets dark. Theres always "what ifs". It would probably be a good mental excersise for you to figure out some "what ifs" on your own.

[Batch]

The sun droping behind a mountain does not darken the entire sky only puts you in the shadow of the mountain. It's when it drops below the horizon it gets dark. Theres always "what ifs". It would probably be a good mental excersise for you to figure out some "what ifs" on your own.

I don't get that response. I did do the mental exercise and came to a conclusion that it shouldn't be ant different than me standing on the shady edge of a hardwood hammock. But, then when I was told that it got dark much later up north than it does down here I had to ask why about that.

So, rather than just be ignorant about something that I know nothing about I guess I would rather ask. Or trying to figure it out in my head.

So while on that subject why are you so bitter?

[Alaskan Survivalist]

I don't get that response. I did do the mental exercise and came to a conclusion that it shouldn't be ant different than me standing on the shady edge of a hardwood hammock. But, then when I was told that it got dark much later up north than it does down here I had to ask why about that.

So, rather than just be ignorant about something that I know nothing about I guess I would rather ask. Or trying to figure it out in my head.

So while on that subject why are you so bitter?

The earth shifts on its axis. We get same amount amount of light and dark just get more in summer and less in winter and the time of sunset changes with time of year. When the sun sets can be used to determine time of year. Not bitter...or mean to be. I find observation and reasoning very useful in every situation and think should be used more. BTW my grandmother was Seminole and have many relatives in Florida I've stayed with on visits. My father was raised in your swamps during the depression and after the war came to Alaska. He had no knowledge or skills needed for Alaska but figured things out and I learned this trait from a "Swamp Rat". I'm not a complete stranger to that culture. I hope that point is better understood and taken the way I mean it. To clarify further the sun will reflect light off clouds or other parts of the earth to light an area even if in the shade will have light reflected on it just not as much.

[Nothus]

As much of a mistake John made, his friends made a greater one. John got lost on day 4, the pilot is expected back on day 5. John, as long as he doesn't panic should be OK for several days. The friends should have sat tight. They could try making noise, but with heavy pine cover sound wouldn't travel far. For the plane to land the area had to be open, and there is no indication that the camp was set up at any distance from the landing site. Perhaps a large controlled fire. Without the light pollution we experience in inhabited areas, the sky glow should be seen over a large area. John would not have had enough time under the conditions to walk any distance not to see it. The group should have waited for the pilot. He would know the procedures used in the Province for lost persons, and been able, by radio, to activate them if John hadn't found his way back because of the fire.

[kyratshooter]

It's been two weeks,

Are they all dead yet?

[Young_prepper]

The pilot's still alive... I think...

[BENESSE]

This isn't good for people with Alzheimer's.

Who are they and where did the pilot come from?!

[Batch]

AS, sorry about the bitter comment. I probably just interpreted type speak wrong.

[kyratshooter]

This isn't good for people with Alzheimer's.

Who are they and where did the pilot come from?!


Apparently there was a pilot that put a hunting group down beside a haunted lake and first one guy disappeared. Then the others went out looking for him and they disappeared one after another.

Like those movies where you scream, "LOOK BEHIND YOU!"

The pilot is due to come back and see if the serial killer susquach has finished his evil work!

The pilot owns a used hunting gear store and this is his way of gathering inventory.

[Wildthang]

This isn't good for people with Alzheimer's.

Who are they and where did the pilot come from?!

From the sky:smartass:

[Alaskan Survivalist]

AS, sorry about the bitter comment. I probably just interpreted type speak wrong.

No Problem...Typing is not my first language.

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

Cowboy, what does that mean?

http://www.midlandsconnect.com/news/story.aspx?id=396497#.UU8VwFdTmdw

I assume you are talking about the 1 guy I could find an article about dying between the landing and his camp. Since he regularly camped in the same spot (half of his 51 years) and he was found between his normal camp and the place he normally put in. I would bet it is REAL safe to say he wasn't lost. While I didn't see a mention of the cause of death it seems the Sparkleberry swamp had little to do with his death. I have never been to that particular swamp. But, most swamps I have been in don't have very strong currents. That is how they become swamps. This guy was found against a tree less than 100 yards from where his canoe was found and he was found in 4' of water.

http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/2000/03/12/met_283830.shtml

This article says he drowned. He didn't die of hypothermia. He drowned in relatively shallow water. He didn't have a life vest on. The cause of his death wasn't the swamp. It was improper boater safety. A guy who has been canoeing for 25 years probably could right a canoe in 4' of water. I would bet it was compounded by a heart attack or something. My wife's boss died from drowning caused by a heart attack. He was kayaking with a friend. The friend looked back and saw Ron face down in the water while still in his kayak. He was wearing a PDF, but because he was still in his kayak the vest couldn't right him.

Any articles about people actually being lost in Sparkleberry?

As for the scenario outlined, I go out in pretty vast areas in the everglades region. I go out with a mix of true gladesmen, self proclaimed country boys and some true woodsmen as well as inexperienced people. Most people don't carry anything of use in this scenario. Folks who smoke will have a lighter usually. though I have had folks that smoke ask for a light. LOL

The ones who do carry a compass, a firestarter or some means of signalling usually don't practice with it very much if at all. I see people walk off into the woods with nothing but a half liter bottle of water all the time. In a place where the heat can kill and a minimum of one gallon per person is the recommended amount.

I have three signal mirrors in my pack. One is a small rescue medic I think that I cut down to fit into a Newt Livesay knife kit. The other two are a lexan 2.75 X 4.25" by ACR and a 3" X 5' glass signal mirror by Star something or another. Which one is the best signal mirror and how do I know?

I have half a dozen or more signal whistles. Which one is the loudest?

I can navigate fairly well by the sun. But, how do I know? Because I regularly test myself and others and then use the compass to verify. Starting in camp when people go to pitch their tent and want to find a shady spot. You'll see them go to set up where their tent will get full sun. Which way is east? LOL

Like I have posted here before people walk or ride out into the swamp down here and never come back. Imagine you walk off of the main road into an area 100 yards from your friends. You get turned around and fire 3 shots in the air with your 12 gauge. They fire back in return. They can even hear your yells. At night you can hear the traffic on the interstate and on Turner River Road. This is the beginning of your 4 day ordeal in the Big Cypress Swamp.



http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2009/nov/22/lost-hunter-talks-jamey-mosch-stalked-everglades-p/



http://www.gameandfishmag.com/2010/09/30/hunting_whitetail-deer-hunting_fl_aa080904a/



http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2013/02/08/Lost-python-hunters-rescued-in-Everglades/UPI-58491360305000/

http://www.local10.com/news/Man-Missing-In-Everglades-National-Park/-/1717324/3074924/-/bx62rfz/-/index.html



http://www.sptimes.com/2003/06/17/State/Man_rescued_after_nig.shtml



http://www.storm2k.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=85821



http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2009/may/10/weston-teen-dies-while-hiking-fellow-boy-scouts-bi/

and I could post stories of flipped airboats and broken down airboats and buggies all day and still not scratch the surface.

Sparkleberry swamp is actually a landing on a big place called Lake Marion and Moultrie. I didn't say how the people died just that they died. One died after a boating accident when his dogs climbed on his head and drowned him. I lived 4 yrs in FL, so I know that a swamp in FL and the swamp here are very different and yes there absolutely is current in Sparkleberry swamp! But, I guess your knowledge of swamps.... and google has already proved I don't know what I am talking about even when it is my backyard. I think you made too many assumptions I was replying to the OP 2 yrs. ago, not looking for a pissing match who knew more about the swamp. I will digress, you know everything about swamps.

[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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