View Full Version : Let's face it....
Sarge47
05-08-2011, 07:58 PM
Every so often somebody on here seems to wonder why we see Survival teachers like Cody & Dave being filmed with a film crew while supposedly lost without anybody else around. Well, besides the fact that the network has to keep them safe for insurance reasons, there's something else as well.
Take "Dual Survival" for instance. Show like this are shown decipting things that happen to ill-prepared people who lack the outdoors savvy most of us on here have. They get just a very minimal amount of gear that most newbies to the outdoors would, in all likelihood, only be carrying. Most of those types would be lucky to start a fire with a flame-thrower & gasoline; so shows like this are really tutorials on what they should know in advance. any Eagle Scout would do better than the people this show is talking about. Remember: "Chance favors the prepared mind."
Old GI
05-09-2011, 08:43 AM
Sarge, you are right. Just remember - It's a TV show first and foremost.
RCKCRWLER
05-09-2011, 12:28 PM
Plus, IMO, it's a more enjoyable show to watch than Les Stroud doing all the filming himself. Not baggin on Les I like his show, but if I had a choice I'd watch Dual survival just for the fact that filming is superior.
letslearntogether47
05-09-2011, 12:44 PM
Dual Survival is great show.
It not only shows some pretty good survival techniques.
But it also shows how seemingly two totally different folks can use each others strengths to work through obstacles in a survival situation.
Basically agree to disagree and move on with the best scenario.Trust and rely on one another.
Old GI
05-09-2011, 01:17 PM
Speaking of shows. I watched some of a Ray Mears' show on tracking wolves in Idaho last night. This was my one and only time I saw him and I know he is quite a favorite in this forum. However, I wasn't much impressed with that episode. I would like to see other episodes of his, that are more focused on wilderness survuval.
crashdive123
05-09-2011, 04:07 PM
Bushcraft is more his style, and he does it very well.
cbr6fs
05-09-2011, 04:43 PM
End of the day these shows are entertainment first and foremost.
Their degree of entertainment really goes up and their usefulness down IMO.
Shows like Bear Grylls many find really entertaining, but most of his escapades are bordering on suicidal, as far as advice for the layman goes.
As a rough idea, personally i only watch /bear Grylls out of the corner of my eye, but my Mrs watches the show, likewise my pensioner Mum, both only really go outside to get to and from their cars.
Ray Mears i have a LOT of time for, personally i find his slow methodical descriptions and way of doing things very useful and entertaining.
It's still only a show though and speaking with some of his crew (many of which now work with Bear Grylls) you find out that he has taken just as many luxurious liberties as BG.
The difference IMO though is that RM doesn't pretend to do otherwise, there are no secret harnesses edited out, if he wears a life jacket it's there for all to see.
Likewise when he does stray out into the wilderness he'll take things like an axe with him, which to honest is pretty much essential anyway.
Les Stroud i also really enjoy, as Mears he is more about going with the flow of nature rather than battling against it.
Dual Survival is sort of in between the 2 for me.
The hippy type bloke is REALLY starting to get on my nerves though, he just seems to be overplaying EVERY chance he gets and trying to sum it up in one sound bite, "you mess with nature your dead" kinda thing gets boring after a few episodes.
We also have a drinking game going on, when ever Dave says "survival situation" we down a double.
Needless to say we're usually pretty drunk by the end of the show.
As for the usefulness of these sort of shows.
Well Bear Grylls i'd say is more a danger to the general public than useful, they see him climbing cliffs, abseiling down the other side, swimming through icy waters and they quickly think they also can do these type of things.
Even if they were as fit and as talented a climber as BG they'd still more often than not get into trouble at best, at worst they'd kill themselves.
Mears and Stroud i honestly feel would help a little IF the person is able to recall what advice they offered.
Likewise Dual Survival.
Thing is though, these guys practice practice and then practice again.
They are all extremely skilled in survival, and have had experienced first hand the difficulties.
Ray Mears will light a fire using a fire bow method in a few mins.
First 10 times or so i tried it i failed, i can usually do it 1 time out of 5 in around 1 hour, it depends on the wood available and the weather though.
Bear Grylls will scale a cliff and drink out of a cliff side pool, personally i couldn't do that any more not matter how much i needed the water.
The whole thing with survival is, ability to adapt.
This goes for the environment, weather, food water everything, you could go out in say Scotland in August be trained by the top survival experts for 1 month.
If you were then dropped off in February to utilise that knowledge you'd be completely lost, as the environment would be completely different.
Some would be able to adapt to it, others not.
Some would just about survive, others would flourish.
It's all about being able to adapt, having common sense enough to know what tasks are a priority and what tasks are too risky, it's then a case of being determined to see a task through to completion, that takes a LOT of mental toughness.
Put a fairly out of shape mother up in a situation like that against say a very fit single guy and my money is on the mother.
Simply because she has the want and need to survive and get back to her kids.
EdD270
05-09-2011, 06:17 PM
Amen, cbr6fs. These shows are first and foremost to sell advertising time to pay the bills, any useful information is incidental.
Les Stroud and Ray Mears shows are very good, but kind of dull, thus, less income. Grylls show is inane, but exciting to many, so makes more money.
I like the Man,Woman, Wild shows, lots of good info, if you can get past her constant whiney chatter. Dual Survival is pretty good, Lundin is a genuine knowledgable survival "expert", but I notice that nearly every episode they modify Canterbury's list of credits, he started out as an ex-military paratrooper, specops operator, etc, and is now merely ex-military.
The best survival instructors, Lundin excepted, have evidently opted out of the TV gig, Ron Hood for example.
cbr6fs
05-09-2011, 07:11 PM
If i'm going to far off-topic then please delete my post op's.
I do think it's relevant though as we are specifically talking about TV survival shows.
With that in mind i honestly do not believe you can teach someone to "survive"
I had one mate that 30 mins into a hike sat down and gave up because his shoe lace snapped.
Another has a prosthetic leg that snapped, he found a stick roughly the same length, wedged it in and continued the 3 day camping trip.
Some people simply do not have the will power and determination to pull them through really tough times.
So if we take the best case scenario, that a TV show gives good clear, concise and responsible advice some people simply will not have the willpower or determination to carry out the tasks required to survive.
Others may have that willpower and very little knowledge, but still survive.
History really backs this up, with many people over the years being in terrible situations but they survive simply out of sheer stubbornness mixed with some good old common sense.
As i said before with my experience with a firebow, even IF you watch these shows and remember what they said, it's only by determination and willpower that you can see through the hundreds of failures, that you can actually learn and gain enough experience from these failures enough to eventually succeed.
I remember one show where Ray Mears went on a kayak expedition with a very talented Kayaker Ray Goodwin.
As they set up camp one night Mears made a fire using the firebow method, took him a few mins but he made it look easy.
Seeing this Ray Goodwin wanted a go, it took over an hour of frustration and failures before he got an ember.
Take a look here from 6:15 onwards.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLKf7ExFK2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLKf7ExFK2
So even if you had the knowledge to make a firebow, to select the correct woods, to find the correct tinder and everything else you'd need.
How many people do you know that would have the determination and patience enough to have over 1 hour of constant failures enough to succeed and learn?
Even then, even if you practised this technique on a daily or weekly basis who's to say that if the worst does happen that there will be trees, tinder or the correct type of wood to enable this method to succeed?
My opinion is,
Yes i watch these shows
Yes i find some more entertaining than others to watch
But although you can teach and learn survival techniques, basic survival at the end of the day comes down to a persons willpower, determination.
A lot of this determination comes from visualising a goal, be it seeing those loved ones again, a juicy steak when you get back, a soft bed, a car, bike, bath or whatever floats your boat.
Having something to fight for and get back for tends to give that determination enough to survive and get back to civilisation, to get you motivated enough to see through those tough times.
bobzilla
05-10-2011, 12:16 PM
I would like to see a show that portrayed a fully prepared survivalist instructing people on what they need to have,how to use the equipment,and their thought process on the expedition.Much is lost with people making it look harder than it is,and scares people,like the wilderness is too dangerous.For ratings,film the beauty of the area.
I saw a show on the wolves of Yellowstone and the photographer went out for days filming,he had the equipment to survive and it is my favorite survivalist series,portraying the wilderness for what it is,beautiful.He had the gear and showed his campsites.The wolves were the stars of the show,the beauty of Yellowstone the stage,and enjoyment came from the natural setting.
ryaninmichigan
05-11-2011, 12:45 PM
Somebody needs to buy that guy a pair of boots. That hippy gets on my nerves.
Tombstonesilverwolf
05-11-2011, 01:00 PM
It's a good show, but it seems more of what happens if you ended up stuck there unwillingly. Honestly when I visit the wilderness alone I never take anything with me at all. Too much to lug and besides I use my enviornment. You don't need matches to make a fire when you got the right stones, you don't need a tent when you got trees and brush, most people use slings to kill a rabbit for dinner; when I just throw a rock at its' spine and there is dinner.
But again, it's just a TV show, alot of people take it seriously. I worry humanitys' future.
crashdive123
05-11-2011, 01:55 PM
Hey there Tombstonesilverwolf, how about stopping by the Introduction section and telling us a bit about yourself. You don't need to take anything there either. Thanks.
Sarge47
05-11-2011, 05:30 PM
Somebody needs to buy that guy a pair of boots. That hippy gets on my nerves.
RiM! Long time no see...how ya doin'? :shifty:
ryaninmichigan
05-12-2011, 03:58 PM
Been busy. How you been? This place has changed quite a bit
Sarge47
05-12-2011, 05:53 PM
Been busy. How you been? This place has changed quite a bit
Yep, & our old friend, VW, has "lit out" as well! Glad to see you back! :laugh:
ryaninmichigan
05-12-2011, 06:23 PM
That guy was something else. What broke the final straw?
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keepagoodoffing (http://keepagoodoffing.ru)keepsmthinhand (http://keepsmthinhand.ru)kentishglory (http://kentishglory.ru)kerbweight (http://kerbweight.ru)kerrrotation (http://kerrrotation.ru)keymanassurance (http://keymanassurance.ru)keyserum (http://keyserum.ru)kickplate (http://kickplate.ru)killthefattedcalf (http://killthefattedcalf.ru)kilowattsecond (http://kilowattsecond.ru)kingweakfish (http://kingweakfish.ru)kinozones (http://kinozones.ru)kleinbottle (http://kleinbottle.ru)kneejoint (http://kneejoint.ru)knifesethouse (http://knifesethouse.ru)
knockonatom (http://knockonatom.ru)knowledgestate (http://knowledgestate.ru)kondoferromagnet (http://kondoferromagnet.ru)labeledgraph (http://labeledgraph.ru)laborracket (http://laborracket.ru)labourearnings (http://labourearnings.ru)labourleasing (http://labourleasing.ru)laburnumtree (http://laburnumtree.ru)lacingcourse (http://lacingcourse.ru)lacrimalpoint (http://lacrimalpoint.ru)lactogenicfactor (http://lactogenicfactor.ru)lacunarycoefficient (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru)ladletreatediron (http://ladletreatediron.ru)laggingload (http://laggingload.ru)laissezaller (http://laissezaller.ru)
lambdatransition (http://lambdatransition.ru)laminatedmaterial (http://laminatedmaterial.ru)lammasshoot (http://lammasshoot.ru)lamphouse (http://lamphouse.ru)lancecorporal (http://lancecorporal.ru)lancingdie (http://lancingdie.ru)landingdoor (http://landingdoor.ru)landmarksensor (http://landmarksensor.ru)landreform (http://landreform.ru)landuseratio (http://landuseratio.ru)languagelaboratory (http://languagelaboratory.ru)largeheart (http://largeheart.ru)lasercalibration (http://lasercalibration.ru)laserlens (http://laserlens.ru)laserpulse (http://laserpulse.ru)
yellowcab
12-12-2025, 02:30 PM
laterevent (http://laterevent.ru)latrinesergeant (http://latrinesergeant.ru)layabout (http://layabout.ru)leadcoating (http://leadcoating.ru)leadingfirm (http://leadingfirm.ru)learningcurve (http://learningcurve.ru)leaveword (http://leaveword.ru)machinesensible (http://machinesensible.ru)magneticequator (http://magneticequator.ru)magnetotelluricfield (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru)mailinghouse (http://mailinghouse.ru)majorconcern (http://majorconcern.ru)mammasdarling (http://mammasdarling.ru)managerialstaff (http://managerialstaff.ru)manipulatinghand (http://manipulatinghand.ru)
manualchoke (http://manualchoke.ru)medinfobooks (http://medinfobooks.ru)mp3lists (http://mp3lists.ru)nameresolution (http://nameresolution.ru)naphtheneseries (http://naphtheneseries.ru)narrowmouthed (http://narrowmouthed.ru)nationalcensus (http://nationalcensus.ru)naturalfunctor (http://naturalfunctor.ru)navelseed (http://navelseed.ru)neatplaster (http://neatplaster.ru)necroticcaries (http://necroticcaries.ru)negativefibration (http://negativefibration.ru)neighbouringrights (http://neighbouringrights.ru)objectmodule (http://objectmodule.ru)observationballoon (http://observationballoon.ru)
obstructivepatent (http://obstructivepatent.ru)oceanmining (http://oceanmining.ru)octupolephonon (http://octupolephonon.ru)offlinesystem (http://offlinesystem.ru)offsetholder (http://offsetholder.ru)olibanumresinoid (http://olibanumresinoid.ru)onesticket (http://onesticket.ru)packedspheres (http://packedspheres.ru)pagingterminal (http://pagingterminal.ru)palatinebones (http://palatinebones.ru)palmberry (http://palmberry.ru)papercoating (http://papercoating.ru)paraconvexgroup (http://paraconvexgroup.ru)parasolmonoplane (http://parasolmonoplane.ru)parkingbrake (http://parkingbrake.ru)
partfamily (http://partfamily.ru)partialmajorant (http://partialmajorant.ru)quadrupleworm (http://quadrupleworm.ru)qualitybooster (http://qualitybooster.ru)quasimoney (http://quasimoney.ru)quenchedspark (http://quenchedspark.ru)quodrecuperet (http://quodrecuperet.ru)rabbetledge (http://rabbetledge.ru)radialchaser (http://radialchaser.ru)radiationestimator (http://radiationestimator.ru)railwaybridge (http://railwaybridge.ru)randomcoloration (http://randomcoloration.ru)rapidgrowth (http://rapidgrowth.ru)rattlesnakemaster (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru)reachthroughregion (http://reachthroughregion.ru)
readingmagnifier (http://readingmagnifier.ru)rearchain (http://rearchain.ru)recessioncone (http://recessioncone.ru)recordedassignment (http://recordedassignment.ru)rectifiersubstation (http://rectifiersubstation.ru)redemptionvalue (http://redemptionvalue.ru)reducingflange (http://reducingflange.ru)referenceantigen (http://referenceantigen.ru)regeneratedprotein (http://regeneratedprotein.ru)reinvestmentplan (http://reinvestmentplan.ru)safedrilling (http://safedrilling.ru)sagprofile (http://sagprofile.ru)salestypelease (http://salestypelease.ru)samplinginterval (http://samplinginterval.ru)satellitehydrology (http://satellitehydrology.ru)
scarcecommodity (http://scarcecommodity.ru)scrapermat (http://scrapermat.ru)screwingunit (http://screwingunit.ru)seawaterpump (http://seawaterpump.ru)secondaryblock (http://secondaryblock.ru)secularclergy (http://secularclergy.ru)seismicefficiency (http://seismicefficiency.ru)selectivediffuser (http://selectivediffuser.ru)semiasphalticflux (http://semiasphalticflux.ru)semifinishmachining (http://semifinishmachining.ru)spicetrade (http://spicetrade.ru)spysale (http://spysale.ru)stungun (http://stungun.ru)tacticaldiameter (http://tacticaldiameter.ru)tailstockcenter (http://tailstockcenter.ru)
tamecurve (http://tamecurve.ru)tapecorrection (http://tapecorrection.ru)tappingchuck (http://tappingchuck.ru)taskreasoning (http://taskreasoning.ru)technicalgrade (http://technicalgrade.ru)telangiectaticlipoma (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)telescopicdamper (http://telescopicdamper.ru)temperateclimate (http://temperateclimate.ru)temperedmeasure (http://temperedmeasure.ru)tenementbuilding (http://tenementbuilding.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)ultramaficrock (http://ultramaficrock.ru)ultraviolettesting (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)
yellowcab
05-23-2026, 02:47 AM
инфо (http://audiobookkeeper.ru)инфо (http://cottagenet.ru)инфо (http://eyesvision.ru)инфо (http://eyesvisions.com)инфо (http://factoringfee.ru)инфо (http://filmzones.ru)инфо (http://gadwall.ru)инфо (http://gaffertape.ru)инфо (http://gageboard.ru)инфо (http://gagrule.ru)инфо (http://gallduct.ru)инфо (http://galvanometric.ru)инфо (http://gangforeman.ru)инфо (http://gangwayplatform.ru)инфо (http://garbagechute.ru)
инфо (http://gardeningleave.ru)инфо (http://gascautery.ru)инфо (http://gashbucket.ru)инфо (http://gasreturn.ru)инфо (http://gatedsweep.ru)инфо (http://gaugemodel.ru)инфо (http://gaussianfilter.ru)инфо (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru)инфо (http://geartreating.ru)инфо (http://generalizedanalysis.ru)инфо (http://generalprovisions.ru)инфо (http://geophysicalprobe.ru)инфо (http://geriatricnurse.ru)инфо (http://getintoaflap.ru)инфо (http://getthebounce.ru)
инфо (http://habeascorpus.ru)инфо (http://habituate.ru)инфо (http://hackedbolt.ru)инфо (http://hackworker.ru)инфо (http://hadronicannihilation.ru)инфо (http://haemagglutinin.ru)инфо (http://hailsquall.ru)инфо (http://hairysphere.ru)инфо (http://halforderfringe.ru)инфо (http://halfsiblings.ru)инфо (http://hallofresidence.ru)инфо (http://haltstate.ru)инфо (http://handcoding.ru)инфо (http://handportedhead.ru)инфо (http://handradar.ru)
инфо (http://handsfreetelephone.ru)инфо (http://hangonpart.ru)инфо (http://haphazardwinding.ru)инфо (http://hardalloyteeth.ru)инфо (http://hardasiron.ru)инфо (http://hardenedconcrete.ru)инфо (http://harmonicinteraction.ru)инфо (http://hartlaubgoose.ru)инфо (http://hatchholddown.ru)инфо (http://haveafinetime.ru)инфо (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru)инфо (http://headregulator.ru)инфо (http://heartofgold.ru)инфо (http://heatageingresistance.ru)инфо (http://heatinggas.ru)
инфо (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru)инфо (http://jacketedwall.ru)инфо (http://japanesecedar.ru)инфо (http://jibtypecrane.ru)инфо (http://jobabandonment.ru)инфо (http://jobstress.ru)инфо (http://jogformation.ru)инфо (http://jointcapsule.ru)инфо (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru)инфо (http://journallubricator.ru)инфо (http://juicecatcher.ru)инфо (http://junctionofchannels.ru)инфо (http://justiciablehomicide.ru)инфо (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru)инфо (http://kaposidisease.ru)
инфо (http://keepagoodoffing.ru)инфо (http://keepsmthinhand.ru)инфо (http://kentishglory.ru)инфо (http://kerbweight.ru)инфо (http://kerrrotation.ru)инфо (http://keymanassurance.ru)инфо (http://keyserum.ru)инфо (http://kickplate.ru)инфо (http://killthefattedcalf.ru)инфо (http://kilowattsecond.ru)инфо (http://kingweakfish.ru)инйо (http://kinozones.ru)инфо (http://kleinbottle.ru)инфо (http://kneejoint.ru)инфо (http://knifesethouse.ru)
инфо (http://knockonatom.ru)инфо (http://knowledgestate.ru)инфо (http://kondoferromagnet.ru)инфо (http://labeledgraph.ru)инфо (http://laborracket.ru)инфо (http://labourearnings.ru)инфо (http://labourleasing.ru)инфо (http://laburnumtree.ru)инфо (http://lacingcourse.ru)инфо (http://lacrimalpoint.ru)инфо (http://lactogenicfactor.ru)инфо (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru)инфо (http://ladletreatediron.ru)инфо (http://laggingload.ru)инфо (http://laissezaller.ru)
инфо (http://lambdatransition.ru)инфо (http://laminatedmaterial.ru)инфо (http://lammasshoot.ru)инфо (http://lamphouse.ru)инфо (http://lancecorporal.ru)инфо (http://lancingdie.ru)инфо (http://landingdoor.ru)инфо (http://landmarksensor.ru)инфо (http://landreform.ru)инфо (http://landuseratio.ru)инфо (http://languagelaboratory.ru)инфо (http://largeheart.ru)инфо (http://lasercalibration.ru)инфо (http://laserlens.ru)инфо (http://laserpulse.ru)
yellowcab
05-23-2026, 02:48 AM
инфо (http://laterevent.ru)инфо (http://latrinesergeant.ru)инфо (http://layabout.ru)инфо (http://leadcoating.ru)инфо (http://leadingfirm.ru)инфо (http://learningcurve.ru)инфо (http://leaveword.ru)инфо (http://machinesensible.ru)инфо (http://magneticequator.ru)инфо (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru)инфо (http://mailinghouse.ru)инфо (http://majorconcern.ru)инфо (http://mammasdarling.ru)инфо (http://managerialstaff.ru)инфо (http://manipulatinghand.ru)
инфо (http://manualchoke.ru)инфо (http://medinfobooks.ru)инфо (http://mp3lists.ru)инфо (http://nameresolution.ru)инфо (http://naphtheneseries.ru)инфо (http://narrowmouthed.ru)инфо (http://nationalcensus.ru)инфо (http://naturalfunctor.ru)инфо (http://navelseed.ru)инфо (http://neatplaster.ru)инфо (http://necroticcaries.ru)инфо (http://negativefibration.ru)инфо (http://neighbouringrights.ru)инфо (http://objectmodule.ru)инфо (http://observationballoon.ru)
инфо (http://obstructivepatent.ru)инфо (http://oceanmining.ru)инфо (http://octupolephonon.ru)инфо (http://offlinesystem.ru)инфо (http://offsetholder.ru)инфо (http://olibanumresinoid.ru)инфо (http://onesticket.ru)инфо (http://packedspheres.ru)инфо (http://pagingterminal.ru)инфо (http://palatinebones.ru)инфо (http://palmberry.ru)инфо (http://papercoating.ru)инфо (http://paraconvexgroup.ru)инфо (http://parasolmonoplane.ru)инфо (http://parkingbrake.ru)
инфо (http://partfamily.ru)инфо (http://partialmajorant.ru)инфо (http://quadrupleworm.ru)инфо (http://qualitybooster.ru)инфо (http://quasimoney.ru)инфо (http://quenchedspark.ru)инфо (http://quodrecuperet.ru)инфо (http://rabbetledge.ru)инфо (http://radialchaser.ru)инфо (http://radiationestimator.ru)инфо (http://railwaybridge.ru)инфо (http://randomcoloration.ru)инфо (http://rapidgrowth.ru)инфо (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru)инфо (http://reachthroughregion.ru)
инфо (http://readingmagnifier.ru)инфо (http://rearchain.ru)инфо (http://recessioncone.ru)инфо (http://recordedassignment.ru)инфо (http://rectifiersubstation.ru)инфо (http://redemptionvalue.ru)инфо (http://reducingflange.ru)инфо (http://referenceantigen.ru)инфо (http://regeneratedprotein.ru)инфо (http://reinvestmentplan.ru)инфо (http://safedrilling.ru)инфо (http://sagprofile.ru)инфо (http://salestypelease.ru)инфо (http://samplinginterval.ru)инфо (http://satellitehydrology.ru)
инфо (http://scarcecommodity.ru)инфо (http://scrapermat.ru)инфо (http://screwingunit.ru)инфо (http://seawaterpump.ru)инфо (http://secondaryblock.ru)инфо (http://secularclergy.ru)инфо (http://seismicefficiency.ru)инфо (http://selectivediffuser.ru)инфо (http://semiasphalticflux.ru)инфо (http://semifinishmachining.ru)инфо (http://spicetrade.ru)инфо (http://spysale.ru)инфо (http://stungun.ru)инфо (http://tacticaldiameter.ru)инфо (http://tailstockcenter.ru)
инфо (http://tamecurve.ru)инфо (http://tapecorrection.ru)инфо (http://tappingchuck.ru)инфо (http://taskreasoning.ru)инфо (http://technicalgrade.ru)инфо (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)инфо (http://telescopicdamper.ru)инфо (http://temperateclimate.ru)инфо (http://temperedmeasure.ru)инфо (http://tenementbuilding.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)инфо (http://ultramaficrock.ru)инфо (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)
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