Bowdrill fire

[payne]

EDIT: See this post (http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?16030-Bowdrill-fire&p=298496&viewfull=1#post298496) instead of the stupid bullcrap I've written in this 'original post'.

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I had some free time after the 'bicycle mechanics course' I took today at my college, so I decided to make my very first attempt at starting a fire with a bowdrill.
Not having any camera, I can't give pictures of what I was doing, so sorry if this makes your help utterly difficult. =/

Essentially, I located a bow-like branch on the ground. It was approximatively a bit shorter than my arm (I am not a tall person, by the way). Its thickness was varying between the size of 2 to 3 of my fingers (from on end to the other).
The cord I used was very crappy and I suspect it to be a bit waxed: when I'd try to make my branch spin, most of the time the rope was only sliding on the branch, which implies no spin at all. I'm wondering: could the tension of the cord also affect this? Once the branch was enrolled in the cord, there would be a tiny slack (not much, though).
For the spinning-branch, the only straight branch I could find was part of 'semi-dead' tree. Could this have participated to my failure? Is this branch supposed to be dead wood? It was the same size as my forearm, and it was as thick as my thumb.
The bottom plate of wood I've used was treated: I really couldn't find anything suitable in the wood so I had to make with it. I guess it didn't help neither?

I did not have much time since I was trying to start the fire right in front of every body, on the terrain of my college... and it's illegal. As soon as I realized I couldn't get the cord to have a proper friction with the wood, I just abandoned.
I know this isn't much of an experience, but I guess you guys could still get me some great advices based on it. Sorry for the lack of information. =/

[JPGreco]

Sounds like pretty much everything you did was wrong other than the mechanics. Treated wood isn't dry cause of the chemicals in it. Takes forever for that stuff to dry out. The spindle has to be dry as well, otherwise you won't get embers. If the spindle didn't spin cause of the bow, then you won't get embers either. The bow string should be rather tight, no slack.

[your_comforting_company]

I'm sure that if you use the search feature at the top, you will find plenty of information on the forum that would answer all your questions with only a little research.

[payne]

I'm sure that if you use the search feature at the top, you will find plenty of information on the forum that would answer all your questions with only a little research.
The thing was I wanted feedbacks on my own specific case.
JPG's answer was pretty much what I was waiting for.
Thanks. =D
I'll probably get my hand on a second, more serious, try within a week. I'll post the report in here. :)

[your_comforting_company]

Your case was very specifically, had every possible element wrong.
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?11393-Fire-Bow-(PIC-HEAVY)

Do a little homework, unless you really just like burning calories. Use dead wood. use a nice big curved bow. Use cordage that affords some grip, i.e. NOT waxed and adjust the tension on it as you take it up with your fingers. Your "bottom piece" should be dead and preferrably NOT treated also.
If you had done your homework you would have at least known that nothing about that kit was right. Since you have a week between tries, why not read the article above?

[payne]

Your case was very specifically, had every possible element wrong.
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?11393-Fire-Bow-(PIC-HEAVY)

Do a little homework, unless you really just like burning calories. Use dead wood. use a nice big curved bow. Use cordage that affords some grip, i.e. NOT waxed and adjust the tension on it as you take it up with your fingers. Your "bottom piece" should be dead and preferrably NOT treated also.
If you had done your homework you would have at least known that nothing about that kit was right. Since you have a week between tries, why not read the article above?
100% my fault. I apologize.
The worst is that I had already read that one.
My memory likes to trick me from times to times (though in this case, it was obviously a lack of thought as well... lol@using treated and waxed stuff!).

[JPGreco]

it was obviously a lack of thought as well...

Lack of thought can get you killed on your little expedition

[crashdive123]

I think this was a valuable lesson for you, and I applaud your efforts. You have probably learned a great deal about wood selection, technique, and effort. It may still take you several attempts to achieve success, but if you keep at it you will be successful.

This is why on your other threads so many of us are urging you to practice, get some time out doing instead of time in reading. Both are important, but one without the other, as you have experienced may not lead to success. I know you said you are busy, but I would encourage you to make the time. If you do, your journey will be a memorable one. It may even cause you to continue chasing your dream.

[welderguy]

Glad to hear your trying your skills before your trip . Keep trying you will get it. Just perfect it now before you need it on your trip.

[woodpro1102]

Not a great first post for me I guess but you really expect to last 20 days on your adventure? Common sense says to not use a treated wood. With out that you can not expect to survive. The second issue is doing it on campus knowing it is illegal? Please do a lot more planning and practicing because you attempt a trip like you had planned. Everyone starts somewhere but extended trips like that are nothing to take lightly, especially with more than one problem. Be prepared not only to take care of your self, but also be prepared to have to take care of your partner if anything were to ever happen to him.

There is a post somewhere around here listing the best wood specials for your bow and drill. These species may not be available near you but it will give you an idea of what woods will work well. Good luck in anything and everything you do. Stay safe man.

Alex

Edit* I thought I read you were going on a 20 day trip but just saw a post about a 6 month trip? Also, another post that you cannot afford a camera? How will you buy food and supplies? A decent digital camera can be had for around $100. That same $100 wont last you anywhere near 6 months as far as food goes. Whats the plan?

[crashdive123]

Hey there woodpro1102 - if your second post were in the Introduction section --- now that would be great.

[payne]

Hello everyone!

I had stopped posting on the forum, yet I kept lurking around. Anyways, I just came back from a 3-days hike with some friends, and on the first night, I had some spare time in front of the fire, so I decided to try to arrange a little kit for a bow-drill fire.
First thing I realized, is that I need a much better knife: it took hours, and my thumb was in pain, to carve properly the kit. By the time I thought I was done, I proceeded to make my first attempt at spinning the spindle with the bow, but then realized I was missing quite an important part: the kind of socket that goes at the top of the spindle so you can apply pressure without burning yourself. Unfortunately, it was too dark to attempt to find something suitable, so I just decided to find a piece the next night.
Next night, I finally find something that seems to suit properly my spindle. However, as soon as I'm done preparing the tindle ball, it started raining, so once again: mission aborted.
Next day, it was time to return home. I decided I hadn't spent that many hours on this little kit to never actually even get to try it out once, so I just took it home with me. Of course, I found out I had forgotten my bow-drill behind me once I arrived home: so here I was, back again to carve some wood (the new bow kind of sucked, but anyways).

Finally, I was done. As I started to spin the spindle, in a matter of a single minute, the rope frayed itself, so I had to use something else: a synthetic-ish green and thin rope.
Once I've made this change, everything was working... except one detail: as soon as I'd get to smell some smoke, the spindle would just pop out... thus dooming me to restart. I restarted, again and again, it would always pop out as I started to smell smoke (and yet I never got to actually see some).

I thought it could be some problem with my kit, so I decided to take some pictures. That's where you guys come in: do you see anything wrong?

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/1104/1004791q.jpg
The whole "kit".

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/9352/1004792e.jpg
I've just realized I had missed that picture pretty bad. Anyways, this is supposed to be what I drill on, and the other part of wood under it is where the ember should fall.

http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/8383/1004793t.jpg
Here, we see the spindle's bottom edge, and the chunk of wood under it is what I put pressure on (what goes on the top edge of the spindle).

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/6673/1004794g.jpg
My baby skin! I mostly wanted to represent the size of my spindle (my forearm's size), and I've also pictured the size of the tindle ball (my hand's size, pretty much). The tindle ball is made of the rope that I was previously using before it frayed: I've simply frayed it even more and it gave me this.

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/1687/1004795j.jpg
A representation of the size of the hole in my "socket". Could this be a source of error seeing as it has about 2mm of free space.

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/844/1004796.jpg
This is how I was positioning my spindle with my bowdrill.


Something we do not see is how my bowdrill actually broke on one end. This ended up actually being useful to quickly adjust the tension in the rope.
Talking of tension... how tight should the rope be while I'm drilling? And how much pressure am I supposed to put on the "socket"?

EDIT:
Forgot to ask: a friend of mine was saying cedar is the best wood component for all of the parts of that kind of kit. Is that true?

[Alaskan Survivalist]

Are you kidding me? Bicycle mechanics is a college coarse? To think I could have been a college professor when I was 8 years old. I must be a genius and never knew it!

[rwc1969]

I like cedar, eastern red cedar specifically, for all parts of the bow set except the bearing block. Some feel it's one of the more difficult woods to use though, especially if you use the red heartwood.

It is more difficult than box elder or autumn olive, but for me works better than cottonwood or any of the "popples", which are generally just too soft and or punky around here.

If you can get smoke, stop. Take a break and have another go. I don't know why your spindle would slip as soon as you get smoke, but maybe a break would allow you to have a bit more control when you get back to it. Once it's smoking it only takes a few seconds and a slight increase in pressure and speed to get the ember.

It could be that your bearing block starts to heat up and bind at the same time the smoke comes and the binding causes it to flip out of the string. Mine usually only flips out when I'm first getting set up or when I'm trying to use too short of a spindle, or perhaps my string is just a bit tight.

[your_comforting_company]

I personally like to use yucca spindles on Black willow.
All your components look good to me, with the exception of lubricating the socket. I don't know what wood you are using, but It all looks good and dead and dry to me from the pics.
The only suggestion I might make is PRACTICE!! This is a very mechanical process. Concentrate on posture and purpose, and above ALL ELSE, BREATHE!
Several factors can cause the spindle to pop out, including the lack of lube, fatigue causing a fluctuation in posture of the socket, and/or the cord being too tight. I like to take up the slack in the string with my fingers as I take up the bow, so that I can tighten or loosen the tension depending on the performance of the spindle. If it won't spin, tighten your string OR lighten the pressure on the socket, and gradually increase both as you start to get smoke.

One other suggestion: Don't stop spinning just because you see smoke. The smoke will change color ever so slightly and it is that change in the smoke color that indicates a live ember. First smoke will be grayish, and smoke from an ember is a yellowish color. The change is very slight and might not be very noticable at first. Just because you have smoke does not mean you have fire YET.. keep spinning for another few seconds (maybe 30) and you should be able to get an ember.

Do not expect to get it on your first try, or even the first 10 tries. I don't even want to tell you how many times I tried before I finally got all the elements "just right" to get an ember, but it was a LOT of tries.

It looks like you are well on your way. Let us know how it goes. If you have proper wood, you should be working on the mechanics and posture (practice!!) and soon you'll be spinning fire every chance you get!
One thing I've noticed... When I'm trying to "show off" I can almost never get an ember, but when I do it just messing around, like to light the grill, I can make fire in 2 minutes or less. Every once in a while the universe smiles on me and I make fire :D

Good Luck and keep practicing! Let us know how you fare!

[crashdive123]

I suspect that your spindle is popping free every time you smell smoke because you get excited, change your positioning to see, and either release your downward pressure or have moved your bow out of the way.

[letslearntogether47]

All 5 things must work in harmony to get a bow drill fire.
Bearing block,spindle,fire board,bow and............you.
It took me almost a month of pain and suffering to get the technique and correct materials to work.
The string or cortege is very important.Paracord or even better,cotton clothes line works best.
If spindle slippage is an issue,try cutting the spindle in a hex shape where the cortege runs.
You'll build strength and technique the more you practice.
I do best with white cedar spindle and fireboard and an oak bearing block.
Good luck......

[mosquitomountainman]

I like the dead exposed roots of cottonwood trees for the spindle and base but a lot of other woods work well too. The string fraying and breaking could be from a couple of factors such as the wrong type or thickness of string or poor technique. If when you work the bow back and forth the string crosses over itself near the spindle it will quickly fray and break. Some good tips about the spindle popping free have also been given but I'd like to add one more: I've had times when the bearing block built up friction as I spun the spindle and the increased friction made me work harder to keep tension on the string which made the spindle pop out of the socket. Even lubricating the socket didn't help in this instance. I just had to find a different, harder material for the socket. A section of the rear portion of the backbone from an elk works great. Drill a hole through it and wear it like a necklace. It will invite some stares and questions but is absolutely "authentic" from the purist's perspective.

If you're having trouble with the string slipping on the spindle do the hex shape thing first or rough the area up where the string rides. Another thing I've done is use an "Egyption Bow Drill." It's a different method of wrapping the string around the spindle. I used it a couple of times when I cut my hand and couldn't get a good grip on the bow. I've also used it with students if they were having problems with string slippage. There's a good explanation here http://www.wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/fire/bowdrill/egyptian/index.html or just do a search on the Egyptian Bow Drill. The only real difference is how the string is wrapped around the spindle. You can also drill a hole in through the spindle and run the string through it before attaching it to your bow. It takes some creative wrapping around the spindle though!

The size, length, etc. of the bow is personal preference. I've seen little tiny bow drills and four man bow drills (they were so large it took four people to do it) and everything in between and they all worked. Sometimes a shorter bow works best. It seldom works to just chuck a spindle in an electric drill and go at it. It's the stop/start/reverse direction sequence that makes it work. Otherwise you'd never be able to make a fire with a hand drill.

If your materials are good, proper technique is 90 percent of the battle.

Have fun!

[payne]

I'll try again tonight. :)

But before, can someone explain me what the 'hex shape' is?
About my socket, it's a dead and dry knot of wood. What should I lubricate it with? (Something found in the nature please.)
Else, I'd like to know how much time it takes you to assemble a full kit like this one. It took me several hours, and I'm wondering if it's normal or not. I guess there's a lot of luck about finding some pieces (like this damn socket).
One last precision: I don't know the wood-type of my components. It's probably made out of 4 different wood. XD

EDIT: And do you have any good tips for if I want to make my own rope directly out of the wood? I probably must use roots, but I'm pretty sure there's more to know about it.

[rwc1969]

Lube:

Soapwort leaves
Pine resin
Possibly hickory leaves, but I'm not so sure about this one

A great pre-lubed bearing block is a nice solid piece of fatwood, that's what I now use

I saw a guy on YT use hickory entire for the bowdrill, string, bow and all, and he didn't even use a knife. The string was made from the bark. I can't find the vid, but it is a good one and the guy knows his stuff. I don't recall what he used for the bearing block, probably hickory, but he did use hickory leaves for lube, and, IIRC, he also put a bit of pine resin on the string for grip, but I could be wrong on that. He did do something a bit unusual though, as the natural cordage can't take a lot of stress, and otherwise the string would either break or slip.

[Survival Guy 10]

Hex or hexagon is a six sided polygon and for lube i have heard everything from ear wax to like oil from your face but i know that YCC uses soap if im not mistaken

[mosquitomountainman]

In my experience the hand socket is the most difficult piece to find/make. That's why I try have one with me. Some people drill a tapered or rounded depression part way through their knife handle and use it for a socket. I test new woods by trying to indent them with a thumbnail. They should be soft enough to "dent" but not so soft that it indents deeply. It's not the greatest test for the inexperienced but it's the only way I know of. I don't know any quick, natural cordage that will stand up to the strain of bow/drill fire making. Rawhide or leather lacing would be my first choices. Good cordage is one of the things that are difficult to make quickly which is why I always carry some in my survival kit. Good tips so far on the lube. I rub the spindle end behind my ear for natural "oil." Natives usually carried the "makings" with them rather than depending upon finding the right materials where they stopped.

[payne]

But isn't pine resin a bit glue-ish? I see it as slowing down the thing more than anything. :O
And how should having a hex-shaped spindle prevent it from poping out?

EDIT: Just tried out once again without making any modifications. This time, I got to get kind of a lot of grey smoke. I kept going, but it never turned to yellow. Unfortunately, I couldn't increase the pressure on my socket because then the spindle would stop turning... and I hardly can increase the tension of the rope: it's probably already on the edge of exploding. =P
Then, I've tried the Egyptian method, but the results were bad: the rope would always **** up and create kind of a knot because it'd pass over itself, thus preventing me from spinning the spindle.
Didn't try the hex-shape yet, and I will not have the time to tonight. Maybe in 2-3 days. Now, I have to go study for my final exams. =/
Oh, and I tried to lubricate the socket's hole with ear wax, but I guess I just did not have enough because I took a shower this morning, and used Q-tips to clean my ears.

Keep the useful comments flowing in, though! :D

[hunter63]

................... It seldom works to just chuck a spindle in an electric drill and go at it. It's the stop/start/reverse direction sequence that makes it work. Otherwise you'd never be able to make a fire with a hand drill.

If your materials are good, proper technique is 90 percent of the battle.

Have fun!

Now that makes sense....Thanks for the tid-bit......

[mosquitomountainman]

But isn't pine resin a bit glue-ish? I see it as slowing down the thing more than anything. :O
And how should having a hex-shaped spindle prevent it from poping out?

EDIT: Just tried out once again without making any modifications. This time, I got to get kind of a lot of grey smoke. I kept going, but it never turned to yellow. Unfortunately, I couldn't increase the pressure on my socket because then the spindle would stop turning... and I hardly can increase the tension of the rope: it's probably already on the edge of exploding. =P
Then, I've tried the Egyptian method, but the results were bad: the rope would always **** up and create kind of a knot because it'd pass over itself, thus preventing me from spinning the spindle.
Didn't try the hex-shape yet, and I will not have the time to tonight. Maybe in 2-3 days. Now, I have to go study for my final exams. =/
Oh, and I tried to lubricate the socket's hole with ear wax, but I guess I just did not have enough because I took a shower this morning, and used Q-tips to clean my ears.

Keep the useful comments flowing in, though! :D

With the Egyptian method it pays to use a larger string. I use paracord as a minimum size on it. It needs to be large enough to coil naturally. You may be tilting the bow up or down from horizontal. If you do that the cord will overlap itself and the increased friction will fray/break the string and also make it harder to keep your momentum. If your hand socket has too much friction you'll have to have the cord stretched very tight and/or really have to apply pressure to turn the spindle. Either condition will make the spindle pop out of the socket. What I've had happen to me is that as I bore down on the hand socket toward the final leg the friction in the hand socket increased, the string slipped and the spindle stopped. If I tightened up on the string the spindle kept flipping out of the socket. I had almost as much heat at the top of the spindle as at the bottom where it was in the fireboard. From your description you may be having the same problem. You need a better hand socket (harder material) or better lubrication. I've never used pine pitch or resin but the friction at the spindle would probably heat it up enough to keep it liquid and it would lubricate in that state.

Next time you try be sure to have someone check your technique. If you have no one who knows enough then do it in front of a large mirror and keep watch yourself. (Use a cookie sheet under everything to protect the floor and a good fan to get rid of the smoke.) Be sure your bow is level throughout your stroke. The string should not pass over itself at any time. Be sure your arm is braced against your leg so that the spindle is held vertically and not rocked back and forth. Keep the friction at the hand socket as low as possible. Cut the top to a point if need be. Keep trying! It took me a long time to get my first bow-drill fire. If there's anyone local to teach you find them and get their help. It's much easier to teach someone in person than in print.

Good luck on the finals!

[mosquitomountainman]

Now that makes sense....Thanks for the tid-bit......

Thanks. I learned it from John McPherson (Primitive Wilderness Living & Survival Skills by John and Geri McPherson) last summer. They are some really cool and knowledgable people.

[payne]

Question: are there any easy ways to quickly obtain a decent fireboard in the wood? I kind of had a lot of luck to stumble upon mine, and I actually had to ask for a friend of mine to help me brake the thing... =/
And another one: is it a good idea to harden the wood of certain components of the kit by passing them over a fire?

[letslearntogether47]

Payne,
As this is your first time trying to get a bow drill fire.
I would suggest that you try with store bought materials.
I know that doesn't sound all that he-man wilderness.But when you get a fire,you'll know what pressure,time and perseverance it takes.
Just my 2 cents.

[hunter63]

Thanks. I learned it from John McPherson (Primitive Wilderness Living & Survival Skills by John and Geri McPherson) last summer. They are some really cool and knowledgable people.

Good reference, thanks for the reminder.

I do have and have read their book, or at least one of their books, mostly for advice on hide tanning.

If I remember correctly, the one I have, had a comment at the end of the book: If all else fails, get in your Suburban, and go home......LOL

BTW, The part about people carrying their "fixins" with them makes a lot of sense, just like today we would carry our ferro rods and tender.

I did find, while out on a 'walk what I, and several other knowledgeable artifact people, what we think may have been a stone, the top of a bow drill, (socket).

Pictured with it appears to be adz or ax head.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/hunter63/PICT0777crop.jpg

Payne, hang in there, don't feel bad,I have not been able to constantly start fire with a bow drill, either
I do not "depend" on this method as a primary fire lighting method.

But I would, and will continue, to pursue this method, as well as many others, just because I want to be able to do it.

[rwc1969]

Pine resin works great as a lube.

Here's another tip from John and Geri's book, and the one that allowed me to get my first ever ember, using entirely self made materials, including cordage.

Before you attach the last end of the string to the bow, put a real good twist in it. It will help to prevent slippage.

My fireboards are usually sticks that are about 1-2" in diameter. I split them in half lengthwise and pick one.

If you want to eliminate the slippage and breakage of the string use paracord. I have started nearly 50 fires using the same piece of paracord, it may help to take that out of the equation to start.

I can now start a fire pretty much every try, but only if I have the right materials. I tested myself one time this winter, when we had near a foot of snow, windy and cold. I failed miserably! Besides the weather and heavy clothing creating issues I hadn't foreseen, I just plain didn't have the right materials. So, when you finally do get it, don't think that you'll be able to go out in winter with heavy boots and clothing and make it happen so easily.

[mosquitomountainman]

Hunter 63 - Cool find. I've used a rock before but never had one looking that good. I generally use a section of the backbone on a deer (marginal - too small) or elk (works best). (Get a section near the hips.) Drill a hole through the sides and wear it around your neck. Most people think it's cool (or that maybe you're a little, uhm ... odd?). I keep one in my BOB too.

[payne]

Before you attach the last end of the string to the bow, put a real good twist in it. It will help to prevent slippage.
Sorry to have to ask, but what do you mean by "a real good twist in it" ?
Also, do you have any tips to give me when it comes to making my own cordage? (I've never tried, nor informed myself about it much)

[hunter63]

Hunter 63 - Cool find. I've used a rock before but never had one looking that good. I generally use a section of the backbone on a deer (marginal - too small) or elk (works best). (Get a section near the hips.) Drill a hole through the sides and wear it around your neck. Most people think it's cool (or that maybe you're a little, uhm ... odd?). I keep one in my BOB too.

Cool part of the round rock is that it had definite wear marks inside, and show that it had been "worked" so that it fits your hand perfectly,... kind hard to do naturally, so the archaeologist at the local collage, (I have been hanging out with the local Archaeological Society) thinks that it indeed "Cultural" rather than "natural".
He will not say, for sure, that it is a top of a bow drill, LOL

Finding and wearing your socket is also a cool idea.

Sorry, Payne for sidetracking your thread.......................

[payne]

Sorry, Payne for sidetracking your thread.......................
May your soul perish in hell!

[rwc1969]

Tight as you can get it without it twisting over on itself again. I have some cordage making vids on my YT channel.

I made the cordage and then tried to start a fire with it.

Here's my epic fail with that dogbane cordage, just when I thought I knew it all too, lol.

http://youtu.be/L4BFDpdUw94

[your_comforting_company]

I tried paracord on my bow and it only lasted for 3 fires before it broke. The outer sheath seems to be the problem with using paracord. Unless you are VERY good at making natural cordage, buy rope from the hardware store. I have not made rope yet that can withstand very many attempts at firemaking. I carry my socket rock, which is a piece of limestone that has been pecked out with another harder stone. Since I have lye soap (that I made) in my bag also, I use that for lube; a small piece of your emergency candle, any animal fat, oily anything, pine needles.. anything that's slick works for lube, even phlegm. The point is to reduce friction at the bearing end so you can increase friction at the working end.

If your cordage is too tight, it will often cause the spindle to pop out too. Mostly this is attributed to slight shifts in position. You should have one foot on the ground, holding the hearth, the other knee is on the ground, and your butt is neither touching the ground or your feet. Bearing hand should be locked tight around your hearth leg (in my case left foot holds hearth and right knee props me up giving me a 'tripod' for stability).

I recommend picking up the book Wildfire: Fire Making Art by Russell Cutts. It explains all the elements very well.

If your cordage is binding on itself while spinning, you have the strings crossed. Insert your spindle the opposite direction (still with the right ends up and down) so that when you are in position, the cordage doesn't pass over itself. That's a pretty simple fix.

Knowing what wood you are using would be infinitely helpful in troubleshooting the problems here. Hardwoods are generally a no-no, even though I've forced fire out of several harder woods, like nandina. It doesn't take a great deal of botanical knowledge, but I think you need at least some. There are countless combinations that work, some better than others, and my favorite (I know I sound like a broken record) are yucca and black willow. Both very easy to identify, both usually very high in silica content.

[payne]

I'd like to reiterate a question: how should 'hex-shaped' spindle enhance performances?

[mosquitomountainman]

I'd like to reiterate a question: how should 'hex-shaped' spindle enhance performances?

It helps the string to grip the spindle. When you use a round spindle it gets slick where the string rides and then the string starts to slip. I've also roughed up that area with a knife but the hex shape is a better way of doing it.

[payne]

Okay, thanks. :)

Other question: when am I supposed to know when I should try to get an ember with a new hole on the fireboard? Should I try to simply use one as deep as possible, or are there some weird rules?

[your_comforting_company]

I use them as deep as they will go and still operate.
if the hearth is 1/2" thick, I'll go almost to the bottom. If yours is real thick it'll probably reach a point it starts to hang up. you'll know when it's time to start a new one.

[letslearntogether47]

The last thing you want to do is waste a lot of energy and burn through.
Or pop the side off and lose the notch.

[yellowcab]

возм (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/5374)415.6 (http://cottagenet.ru/plan/526)лини (http://eyesvision.ru/physics/82)Bett (http://eyesvisions.com)Univ (http://factoringfee.ru/t/1079314)Erle (http://filmzones.ru/t/742524)Харт (http://gadwall.ru/t/658563)Pete (http://gaffertape.ru/t/843834)Davi (http://gageboard.ru/t/859933)Таи� (http://gagrule.ru/t/687430)Четы (http://gallduct.ru/t/882330)SG30 (http://galvanometric.ru/t/449242)Euge (http://gangforeman.ru/t/676872)Ткач (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/944396)Pens (http://garbagechute.ru/t/1143191)
врач (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/658816)Evil (http://gascautery.ru/t/1036610)Nuit (http://gashbucket.ru/t/457137)XVII (http://gasreturn.ru/t/976951)Atla (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/565705)Клей (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/1160204)теат (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/1047005)Игор (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/815882)Майк (http://geartreating.ru/t/815198)Blan (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/741242)Cyli (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/559980)�рти (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/572492)по�л (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/298251)Robe (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/672819)Joha (http://getthebounce.ru/t/254717)
Майч (http://habeascorpus.ru/t/820772)Hiru (http://habituate.ru/t/964772)Nick (http://hackedbolt.ru/t/449583)Ð*оди (http://hackworker.ru/t/854312)Ð�аÑ�Ñ€ (http://hadronicannihilation.ru/t/853869)Соро (http://haemagglutinin.ru/t/847684)защи (http://hailsquall.ru/t/654958)Ñ�ерт (http://hairysphere.ru/t/561081)Nive (http://halforderfringe.ru/t/564771)Clea (http://halfsiblings.ru/t/563262)Ñ�ерт (http://hallofresidence.ru/t/563689)Orea (http://haltstate.ru/t/561077)журн (http://handcoding.ru/t/835084)Tesc (http://handportedhead.ru/t/1027693)Pale (http://handradar.ru/t/562671)
Mich (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/508272)Jose (http://hangonpart.ru/t/753437)Vogu (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/565731)Fash (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/557418)Omsa (http://hardasiron.ru/t/566877)Coto (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/567525)Coto (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/567981)Micr (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/179077)Alle (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/602200)Shaf (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/770961)Andr (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/359796)рома (http://headregulator.ru/t/765046)Иван (http://heartofgold.ru/t/947313)Rouc (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/536582)Мик� (http://heatinggas.ru/t/1048875)
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XVII (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/813048)Бари (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/817008)�опу (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/813039)Henr (http://lamphouse.ru/t/846287)XIII (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/815242)Maur (http://lancingdie.ru/t/784654)�луж (http://landingdoor.ru/t/767850)отде (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/1048303)Мил� (http://landreform.ru/t/882268)Скак (http://landuseratio.ru/t/838792)Jean (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/975426)ча�т (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1161938)Wind (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/1480059)Eplu (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/1078)Игош (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/591096)

[yellowcab]

беже (http://laterevent.ru/shop/1178768)Прои (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/452608)Cata (http://layabout.ru/shop/599758)INTE (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/600556)Меша (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/106478)�нци (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/466181)Голо (http://leaveword.ru/shop/648172)0917 (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/302642)Robe (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/576767)Post (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/446824)1609 (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/269219)ZENI (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/640334)ENGL (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/577361)Prol (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/612533)откр (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/1040591)
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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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handsfreetelephone.ru (http://handsfreetelephone.ru)hangonpart.ru (http://hangonpart.ru)haphazardwinding.ru (http://haphazardwinding.ru)hardalloyteeth.ru (http://hardalloyteeth.ru)hardasiron.ru (http://hardasiron.ru)hardenedconcrete.ru (http://hardenedconcrete.ru)harmonicinteraction.ru (http://harmonicinteraction.ru)hartlaubgoose.ru (http://hartlaubgoose.ru)hatchholddown.ru (http://hatchholddown.ru)haveafinetime.ru (http://haveafinetime.ru)hazardousatmosphere.ru (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru)headregulator.ru (http://headregulator.ru)heartofgold.ru (http://heartofgold.ru)heatageingresistance.ru (http://heatageingresistance.ru)heatinggas.ru (http://heatinggas.ru)
heavydutymetalcutting.ru (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru)jacketedwall.ru (http://jacketedwall.ru)japanesecedar.ru (http://japanesecedar.ru)jibtypecrane.ru (http://jibtypecrane.ru)jobabandonment.ru (http://jobabandonment.ru)jobstress.ru (http://jobstress.ru)jogformation.ru (http://jogformation.ru)jointcapsule.ru (http://jointcapsule.ru)jointsealingmaterial.ru (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru)journallubricator.ru (http://journallubricator.ru)juicecatcher.ru (http://juicecatcher.ru)junctionofchannels.ru (http://junctionofchannels.ru)justiciablehomicide.ru (http://justiciablehomicide.ru)juxtapositiontwin.ru (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru)kaposidisease.ru (http://kaposidisease.ru)
keepagoodoffing.ru (http://keepagoodoffing.ru)keepsmthinhand.ru (http://keepsmthinhand.ru)kentishglory.ru (http://kentishglory.ru)kerbweight.ru (http://kerbweight.ru)kerrrotation.ru (http://kerrrotation.ru)keymanassurance.ru (http://keymanassurance.ru)keyserum.ru (http://keyserum.ru)kickplate.ru (http://kickplate.ru)killthefattedcalf.ru (http://killthefattedcalf.ru)kilowattsecond.ru (http://kilowattsecond.ru)kingweakfish.ru (http://kingweakfish.ru)kinozones.ru (http://kinozones.ru)kleinbottle.ru (http://kleinbottle.ru)kneejoint.ru (http://kneejoint.ru)knifesethouse.ru (http://knifesethouse.ru)
knockonatom.ru (http://knockonatom.ru)knowledgestate.ru (http://knowledgestate.ru)kondoferromagnet.ru (http://kondoferromagnet.ru)labeledgraph.ru (http://labeledgraph.ru)laborracket.ru (http://laborracket.ru)labourearnings.ru (http://labourearnings.ru)labourleasing.ru (http://labourleasing.ru)laburnumtree.ru (http://laburnumtree.ru)lacingcourse.ru (http://lacingcourse.ru)lacrimalpoint.ru (http://lacrimalpoint.ru)lactogenicfactor.ru (http://lactogenicfactor.ru)lacunarycoefficient.ru (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru)ladletreatediron.ru (http://ladletreatediron.ru)laggingload.ru (http://laggingload.ru)laissezaller.ru (http://laissezaller.ru)
lambdatransition.ru (http://lambdatransition.ru)laminatedmaterial.ru (http://laminatedmaterial.ru)lammasshoot.ru (http://lammasshoot.ru)lamphouse.ru (http://lamphouse.ru)lancecorporal.ru (http://lancecorporal.ru)lancingdie.ru (http://lancingdie.ru)landingdoor.ru (http://landingdoor.ru)landmarksensor.ru (http://landmarksensor.ru)landreform.ru (http://landreform.ru)landuseratio.ru (http://landuseratio.ru)languagelaboratory.ru (http://languagelaboratory.ru)largeheart.ru (http://largeheart.ru)lasercalibration.ru (http://lasercalibration.ru)laserlens.ru (http://laserlens.ru)laserpulse.ru (http://laserpulse.ru)

[yellowcab]

laterevent.ru (http://laterevent.ru)latrinesergeant.ru (http://latrinesergeant.ru)layabout.ru (http://layabout.ru)leadcoating.ru (http://leadcoating.ru)leadingfirm.ru (http://leadingfirm.ru)learningcurve.ru (http://learningcurve.ru)leaveword.ru (http://leaveword.ru)machinesensible.ru (http://machinesensible.ru)magneticequator.ru (http://magneticequator.ru)magnetotelluricfield.ru (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru)mailinghouse.ru (http://mailinghouse.ru)majorconcern.ru (http://majorconcern.ru)mammasdarling.ru (http://mammasdarling.ru)managerialstaff.ru (http://managerialstaff.ru)manipulatinghand.ru (http://manipulatinghand.ru)
manualchoke.ru (http://manualchoke.ru)medinfobooks.ru (http://medinfobooks.ru)mp3lists.ru (http://mp3lists.ru)nameresolution.ru (http://nameresolution.ru)naphtheneseries.ru (http://naphtheneseries.ru)narrowmouthed.ru (http://narrowmouthed.ru)nationalcensus.ru (http://nationalcensus.ru)naturalfunctor.ru (http://naturalfunctor.ru)navelseed.ru (http://navelseed.ru)neatplaster.ru (http://neatplaster.ru)necroticcaries.ru (http://necroticcaries.ru)negativefibration.ru (http://negativefibration.ru)neighbouringrights.ru (http://neighbouringrights.ru)objectmodule.ru (http://objectmodule.ru)observationballoon.ru (http://observationballoon.ru)
obstructivepatent.ru (http://obstructivepatent.ru)oceanmining.ru (http://oceanmining.ru)octupolephonon.ru (http://octupolephonon.ru)offlinesystem.ru (http://offlinesystem.ru)offsetholder.ru (http://offsetholder.ru)olibanumresinoid.ru (http://olibanumresinoid.ru)onesticket.ru (http://onesticket.ru)packedspheres.ru (http://packedspheres.ru)pagingterminal.ru (http://pagingterminal.ru)palatinebones.ru (http://palatinebones.ru)palmberry.ru (http://palmberry.ru)papercoating.ru (http://papercoating.ru)paraconvexgroup.ru (http://paraconvexgroup.ru)parasolmonoplane.ru (http://parasolmonoplane.ru)parkingbrake.ru (http://parkingbrake.ru)
partfamily.ru (http://partfamily.ru)partialmajorant.ru (http://partialmajorant.ru)quadrupleworm.ru (http://quadrupleworm.ru)qualitybooster.ru (http://qualitybooster.ru)quasimoney.ru (http://quasimoney.ru)quenchedspark.ru (http://quenchedspark.ru)quodrecuperet.ru (http://quodrecuperet.ru)rabbetledge.ru (http://rabbetledge.ru)radialchaser.ru (http://radialchaser.ru)radiationestimator.ru (http://radiationestimator.ru)railwaybridge.ru (http://railwaybridge.ru)randomcoloration.ru (http://randomcoloration.ru)rapidgrowth.ru (http://rapidgrowth.ru)rattlesnakemaster.ru (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru)reachthroughregion.ru (http://reachthroughregion.ru)
readingmagnifier.ru (http://readingmagnifier.ru)rearchain.ru (http://rearchain.ru)recessioncone.ru (http://recessioncone.ru)recordedassignment.ru (http://recordedassignment.ru)rectifiersubstation.ru (http://rectifiersubstation.ru)redemptionvalue.ru (http://redemptionvalue.ru)reducingflange.ru (http://reducingflange.ru)referenceantigen.ru (http://referenceantigen.ru)regeneratedprotein.ru (http://regeneratedprotein.ru)reinvestmentplan.ru (http://reinvestmentplan.ru)safedrilling.ru (http://safedrilling.ru)sagprofile.ru (http://sagprofile.ru)salestypelease.ru (http://salestypelease.ru)samplinginterval.ru (http://samplinginterval.ru)satellitehydrology.ru (http://satellitehydrology.ru)
scarcecommodity.ru (http://scarcecommodity.ru)scrapermat.ru (http://scrapermat.ru)screwingunit.ru (http://screwingunit.ru)seawaterpump.ru (http://seawaterpump.ru)secondaryblock.ru (http://secondaryblock.ru)secularclergy.ru (http://secularclergy.ru)seismicefficiency.ru (http://seismicefficiency.ru)selectivediffuser.ru (http://selectivediffuser.ru)semiasphalticflux.ru (http://semiasphalticflux.ru)semifinishmachining.ru (http://semifinishmachining.ru)spicetrade.ru (http://spicetrade.ru)spysale.ru (http://spysale.ru)stungun.ru (http://stungun.ru)tacticaldiameter.ru (http://tacticaldiameter.ru)tailstockcenter.ru (http://tailstockcenter.ru)
tamecurve.ru (http://tamecurve.ru)tapecorrection.ru (http://tapecorrection.ru)tappingchuck.ru (http://tappingchuck.ru)taskreasoning.ru (http://taskreasoning.ru)technicalgrade.ru (http://technicalgrade.ru)telangiectaticlipoma.ru (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)telescopicdamper.ru (http://telescopicdamper.ru)temperateclimate.ru (http://temperateclimate.ru)temperedmeasure.ru (http://temperedmeasure.ru)tenementbuilding.ru (http://tenementbuilding.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)ultramaficrock.ru (http://ultramaficrock.ru)ultraviolettesting.ru (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)