Wilderness Survival - West of Canada [Archive]

kyratshooter

03-31-2011, 12:12 AM

I'm not quite sure if you mean that you think I have never done anything outdoor stuff by saying this. I have done a lot of outdoor and am well-equipped.
Lately, I've been dreaming about making it the "hard way": I (ideally) do not want to bring a tent, sleeping bag, and all that kind of stuff. My goal is really just to prove myself I can apply properly things I have learned over the years.

So yup, indeed, I have never really done any real survival stuff out there, but I am confident about my skills, brain, and physical condition. I plan on making 4 days mostly because it'll force me to at least test my hunting skills since 4 days without food is kind of... well, you know. :P
I say "4 days minimum" because I actually might very well enjoy that way of life and actually decide to keep going for as long as I can since I have no time restriction in my life whatsoever.

I came here to ask experts about the basic stuff in order to make sure I do not make any stupid mistake on those elements which could cost my life (aside from trying to achieve this trip).
Isn't it wiser to ask for advice from experts than just trying to find everything on my own? You probably all have very good links/resources to give me and it'll be a great pleasure for me to discover these.

Payne, we get one of you about once each month, more the closer to school ending.

Newcommers post here, get their bubble burst when reality is presented and we hear no more from them.

What you propose is almost impossible, legally, in this day and time. The laws of the land restrict what you can kill, what you can dig up and where you can even pitch a tent and build a fire.

Most of the "experts" here on this forum are living on homesteads they carved out somewhere, in or out of the wilderness, from which they venture into the woods for a time and then exit back to their safe haven. We have been developing our skills for years and many of us, after all that experience, consider "survival" something that happens in an emergency, not a lifestyle.

There is a difference between "wilderness survival" and living in the woods.

payne

03-31-2011, 02:01 AM

First of all, personally being against privatization of natural resources (and in fact, anything) and advocating direct action, I do not really fear to transgress laws... even less if it's in order to save my life (I'm playing with words here since, in fact, I'll deliberately put myself into this situation). So ya... all I need is a spot free from human's sight. Please take note that I am a huge environmentalist as well, so have no fear about me starting a forest fire or pooping too near from water sources. ;)

Secondly, I do realize a lot of people, even "experts", consider deliberately putting itself into that kind of situation is purely stupid and shouldn't be encouraged, but I think people have to understand who they are talking to: I'm an outdoor-megalomaniac. If I accomplish something, I'm already on the look for something even bigger. Just consider no matter what is said here, I will try to achieve my goal.

EDIT: Sorry for sounding like a cocky/stubborn young adult, but I do know what I'm getting myself into.

1stimestar

03-31-2011, 06:02 AM

Do you have any thing like our Gazetteers? We have one for every state, like the Alaska Gazetteer. The show the state topological maps and include hiking trails, resources, etc. Very good tool to have. You can look them up online, they are put out by Delorme.

ClayPick

03-31-2011, 09:11 AM

Spending the summer with tree planters in BC will get you educated........ but not in wilderness survival.:lol::lol: Banff is full of skiers and holiday hikers. Shame your passing up Northern Quebec, the Cree there are some of most adept people that you will ever find.

finallyME

03-31-2011, 09:35 AM

Secondly, I do realize a lot of people, even "experts", consider deliberately putting itself into that kind of situation is purely stupid and shouldn't be encouraged, but I think people have to understand who they are talking to: I'm an outdoor-megalomaniac.

Your original questions do not paint you in this light. That is why an intro is important. We need to know where to start. You said you are studying math and science. What would you tell someone that asked you to explain differential equations? Since that topic takes years to study, unless you are a genius, it would be nice to know where to start. A lot of the stuff we know, we learned from experience over time. Survival isn't an extreme sport. It is not a sport at all. If you want a sport, try fast packing. My advice would be to try your adventure in eastern Canada. You know the area, but haven't tried the survival part. There are just as many open areas in eastern Canada as western. You can do a week before your trip west. That will teach you more than any website.

kyratshooter

03-31-2011, 09:49 AM

EDIT: Sorry for sounding like a cocky/stubborn young adult, but I do know what I'm getting myself into.

No you don't!

I am 60+ and headed out the door for a trip to town. I do not know if I will get there and back or not. I do not know what emergency will arise that will put me in an urban survival situation or a rural cross country trek.

Two years ago I walked out the door on Friday evening for a weekend camp. Sunday we packed up and headed home. Monday morning my wife was dead. She never made it home from that trip.

The concept that you know what is going to happen, how it will affect you, that you are capable of handling it and that you have any control at all is pure youthful arrogance.

My Side of the Mountain is a work of elementary school fiction, not a guide for life.

payne

03-31-2011, 10:22 AM

@1stimestar: Gazetteers look like a good start. I'll try to look at it tonight, when I'll come back from school.
@ClayPick: I'm pretty confident I'll find at least one tree planter that'll be able to teach me some tricks. ;)
Banff is indeed full of "tourists", but their kind of "trip" aren't my style. No need to worry about me paying hundreds of dollars to do little snobish adventures: I just hate that kind of stuff. The mountains at Banff are just too awesome to pass by without trying to climb some of their summit.
@finallyME: I've included a link to my Introduction thread. :)

I'm planning on doing this little adventure in the western Canada because I believe the place is just naturally more stunning.
However, indeed, I might want to start with the eastern... I'll think about it. I might do both as well. :P
For now, I'm sticking to western. ^_^

hunter63

03-31-2011, 10:58 AM

I will wish you luck, and hope you have a back up plan, and hope that everything works out.

BTW, authorities really don't care if you are "surviving", hungry, or whatever, they will arrest you anyway if you break any hunting/fishing/harvesting, laws.

As far as introductions go: Where does someone start if they have no idea of experience, skills, resources, location you have?

I have been refraining from getting too involved with questions like yours as of late........I don't want to give a smarta** answer to a possibility legitimate/specific question.
At the same time really wish a lot more people would do their homework before asking a general, vague, question.

You might just as well ask the question, "How does one build a space shuttle?" Then argue with the answer.........

I do commend you for your list and scenario, at least you seem to have done some thinking about this.

DOGMAN

03-31-2011, 11:10 AM

Anyone has some tips/informations for me?

Length: Minimum 4 days
Position: British Columbia/Alberta
Period: Somewhere in between June and September
Number of person: Probably alone

Required information:
1. A good spot to make sure I do not meet any human life.
2. What kind of weapon to bring to defend against bears.
3. Geographical information.
4. Equipment list.
5. Edible plants in this region.
6. Anything else you find relevant.

Thank you in advance! =)

EDIT: Here is my Introduction post: http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?15758-Payne&p=289849&viewfull=1#post289849
It looks like people use them a lot to give advices.

Ok...here ya go.

Go just outside of Jasper (BC-ALberta border) get a canoe and get on the Athabasca River and float North to Vega Ferry (it'll take a week). Camp along the river and fish with make-shift fishing gear....Take BEAR SPRAY and a shotgun because the bears are thick through there. Also, take a sling shot and try your hand at killing waterfowl along the way...eat fish and waterfowl. Also, there are lots of edible berries along the side streams (thats why all the bears are there) so hike up them and load a bucket with them. Take a guide book for other wild edibles.

As far as what to take- since your in a canoe you can take everything you'd ever need. BUT...DON'T USE THAT STUFF. take a sleeping bag, pad, tent, stove, fuel, first-aid kit, boots, repair kit, a weeks worth of backpacking food, etc....but keep all that in a couple of rubber made containers and don't get into the containers unless you have to. Live off your creativity and skills- make your shelters, harvest your food, etc...

THis is a great way to get deeper into a wild area and further away from the road system and people then just hiking out. With a canoe you can get deep into a wild place alot quicker than by foot. If you still want to hike- just lengthen your trip by having lay-over days and hike through the bush up side creeks.

typ3

03-31-2011, 06:58 PM

Payne:

I live "West of Canada" in a small town that lies between the Monashee and Selkirk mountain ranges, and it's my duty, as a proud British Columbian, to ask you to please stay away.

In your post you wrote: "First of all, personally being against privatization of natural resources (and in fact, anything) and advocating direct action, I do not really fear to transgress laws..."

Those laws don't exist to privatize natural resources, the laws against poaching exist to protect BC's wildlife and the well being of our ecosystems. As an avid hunter, I'm more than supportive of sustainable hunts, but what you're proposing is neither sustainable nor fair to BC's wildlife and residents. BC is arguably the most diverse hunting region in North America, supporting a massive variety of big game species, and as such there is a lot of hunting pressure from both BC residents and outsiders. Because of this, we are quite restrictive in issuing hunting licences and we manage game harvests quite closely. This is done not for what you call "privatization" but to protect the interests of British Columbians.

Also, mountain environments of both BC and Alberta are quite vast, and you sound quite unprepared to take them on. You sound like you'd best do some more research before heading out: as a paramedic I've treated more than a few Quebecois outdoor-megalomanics who've decided to ignore the advice of locals. BC's environment is vast and doesn't show any sympathy, especially not to arrogant megalomanics.

-B

P.S: I've happily reported poachers in the past, and I wouldn't hesitate to report any megalomanics I see despoiling BC's resources ;)

Rick

03-31-2011, 07:38 PM

Here are the answers to all your questions. Please read CAREFULLY.

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?6837-What-Do-I-Need-To-Survive-in-the-Wild

payne

03-31-2011, 08:13 PM

@Dogman: Looks nice! However, I'd love not to have to rent a canoe... =/
Maybe people have some posts about how to construct our own canoe directly from the wild (in order not to hitch-hike with a canoe from Montréal to there! :P)?

@typ3: I'm far from being a poacher. In fact, I don't even own a gun, nor have I ever had any license. I've used an air-gun like three times in my life, but that's pretty much it. I do not intend on severely damaging the wildlife around there... and shooting animals isn't very "primitive": I will for sure avoid it since it'd kind of ruin the point of my adventure. If ever I do get a gun, I'll use it only in matters of self-defence. I am planning on using traps and crafted weapons to hunt... so I shouldn't be killing any big mammals.
Also, I do not intend to start cutting trees out of nowhere only to build myself a huge shack that I'll use only a few days... my goal is also mostly to try to pass my nights into temporary shelters. I believe this whole trip of mine will be extremely eco-friendly; you shouldn't fear my presence. :)
And as for the mountain environments, I've already mountaineered around Banff for a whole week: could you tell me if it is representative of those regions?

@Rick: I had already read it before starting this thread, thanks. :)
It indeed is a very good post and I will focus on mastering the required skills mentioned in point 1.

Also, since everyone seems to be concerned about this "detail", let me mention that I've started this thread mostly to get my searches oriented. I do not look organized at all because I am currently into a little school-rush.
Within 2 weeks, I should start making researches on my own more thoroughly and this whole project will look way less sloppy.
For now, I'm only letting you guys know who I am and I try to gather some key words for my ulterior searches.
I hope I've reassured y'all! =D

EDIT: Is this the kind of gazetteer I might want? Or does it looks like it wouldn't really have any relevant information?
http://www.maptown.com/cgi-bin/mt/store.cgi?overlord=Details&store_id=5106

Justme

04-03-2011, 08:28 PM

Tips for Payne: I was born in BC and camped out many times

1. Most of the places you would want to camp in are in the mountains, it gets freaking cold at night, even in the summer. And if it is raining, you will be extra cold without gear. I was even cold with gear.

2. If you are planning a 4 day trip, that is short. You don't need to hunt, but get a fishing license, also you should be able to find raspberries every where in central BC, southern BC gets very desert like in some places.

3 Bears are there, but cougars too. Don't go alone, even primitive man stayed in groups, it is safer that way. You are risking your life otherwise. Unless your camping on a small island on a lake or river, that would be safer.

4. Enjoy - the mosquito's heh heh heh

steelnwool

04-03-2011, 08:53 PM

Arg.. Build a canoe in the wilderness? In one of Ray Mears' shows, he meets up with a Native Canadian man north of Ottawa, and they take a couple of days to build a canoe. And the native man has been doing it for years, and they had all their gear gathered all ready. Please please please do not take these skills so lightly. Natives did not wake up one morning and have these skills. They evolved over tens of thousands of years.

You said you've never fired a gun. Which means you have never hunted. If you have never done something, do not think you can just go out and start doing it to keep your self alive.

I'm not talking out of my a-s cause I'm in the same boat as you. I would love to think I could do such a thing but I have 2 young kids and a wife so I am realist about my mortality.

TAKE BABY STEPS

examples;
- you don't want to take a tent or sleeping bag : Go on a camping trip in the woods near where you live, take EVERYTHING you need except a tent and sleeping bag and make those things a focus for your one or 2 day trip. Then do the same trip 5 or 10 times.
- I have never hunted and would like to learn how to process an animal end to end.. how am I going to accomplish this? I'm going to go hunting with an experienced hunter and pester him with questions all day long. I'm not going to waltz into the woods and run my fat *** after a dear... or even a rabbit.
- Fire : LIght a fire a hundred times without matches.
- Get cold and miserable for fun. Being able to do any of these skills under ideal situations is easy. Go out in your back yard, get all of your clothes wet, don't eat for a day and try to build a fire and a shelter. Then compound that with the mental feelings of being stuck and helpless. Its not a walk in a park.

The idea is romantic, and fantastic and all that stuff but take baby steps over years, do not throw your self into rugged wilderness for a lark.

payne

04-03-2011, 11:37 PM

@Justme: Aren't there any spot free from any license-requirement?
And how frequent can we meet predators in there?

@steelnwool: I guess I more had something like a minimally sophisticated raft in mind. ;)
And to all your concerns, I do plan on practising over a few months before going into the wild. This summer, I should get hired as a tree planter, and this would be the perfect time and place to practice all this stuff. I have no worry about me lacking the skills to survive in there.

BC-Dave

04-04-2011, 12:13 AM

Pretty much what everyone has said.

I live in the Chilcotin and 2 years ago I was in the same boat as you. I had this mindset where I really wanted to go 'live in the wild' and see how far life would take me, using the least amount of equipment as possible.

Let me tell you something right now -- that plan quickly spoiled. I thought I knew everything dude. I watched all those Ray Mears shows, all Survivorman, researched everything there is to know about the wilderness, etc. but it was nowhere NEAR what you need to know. Basically take what you think you know, quadruple it, and you are still not even half prepared.

Justme has the right idea. It gets cold at night. Around here, there is frost every month of the year, and even some years, snow. I remember when I first got here and it was 33 degrees celcius during the day. Man I was dieing, I was like holy s#$@! Was laying in my tent sweating and I was practically naked that night. Woke up after a few hours and I was shivering to my bone. Looked at the temp and it was -2. This was in August.
Also like he mentioned, be ready for the most mosquitoes you will ever encounter. I remember I counted 89 different bites on just my legs, not including below the ankle, in just 2 nights. Serious. Bug spray is a good idea, but most of it is really stinky and just basically going to increase chances of animals smelling you. Also you mention you would like to see if you could last longer than 4 days, so if you were to bring bug spray, what would you do when you run out? This is why I would rather get used to them naturally, which I did, by the way -- but it wasn't a fun ride lets just say.

As far as bears and cougars, yeah... they are here. As are wolves, moose, etc.
I know someone said to bring bear spray but trust me, please don't depend on it. Everybody who lives out here will laugh in your face when you tell them your bringing bear spray as a weapon. And I don't mean that as an offence, but seriously, every rancher out here has stories of hitting a grizz in the face from 30 ft, and the thing just kept running like it had no brakes. Now black bears I can understand, I've run into a black bear with two cubs as I was walking through some bush. Came out about 20 feet away. Both cubs climbed a tree and the momma just ran away. Nearly s$*@ myself and it was only like a 200lb black bear. An 800lb grizz sow is not something you want to be taking on with a can of bear spray lol.
Cougars - be careful of these nasty buggers. I lost a dog a couple months ago to one. Basically they stalk you like cats do. I've heard stories of ranchers rounding up their cattle, only to notice a cougar stalking right behind them.

Oh heres a story about a cougar. I live with my parents in a cabin, but I have a little truck camper sitting on the ground like 100 feet away from the cabin. One night the clouds were covering so it was complete darkness, and I had this dinky little flashlight which had like 5% battery power left, and I was walking to my camper. As I was walking I thought I heard something off in the bush but couldn't see anything. Anyways I went back to the cabin because I was sleeping in there for the night but I forgot something at the camper. Grabbed a better flashlight and went and grabbed it. On my walk back I shined my flashlight where I thought I heard something and I seen two glaring eyes looking at me about 10 ft up a tree -- about 15 feet away.

Anyways yeah.. most of the time they will bug off, but if they do attack you, you better have some kind of weapon, lol.

I see that you have posted you will be coming between June and Sept? Well thats a big difference bro. Here in June, you will see mostly deer and other various animals. In September, when the salmon is coming up the rivers... well... man I got no words to even say how stupid that would be to do. You can spot more than 5 grizzlies in a quarter of a mile in some places. Also thats rutting season and the last thing you would ever want to do is run into a bull moose, whether you have a rifle or not. I seen a truck after the last rutting season that was attacked by a moose, it was a dodge ram 3500 and the front door was smashed in like a cannon ball hit it.

Now back to the wilderness talk.

As far was food goes, fish should be number one. Fish, to me, is the easiest source of survival out here, because its so readily available in almost all lakes, assuming that you have a way to catch them. You could hunt for a week and get nothing, or go fishing and have food in 20 minutes. If you have a pellet gun, you can hunt small game. Squirrels and chipmunks aren't exactly the biggest source of meat but they will help. In late summer you will find grouse everywhere here.

As for saying you might stay out for a long period of time, let me ask you some questions.

Will you have money in case things go wrong? What happens if your clothing gets ruined, what will you wear? What if you knife breaks, or gets dull? Do you know how to give yourself first aid? What if critical equipment you have gets ruined? Etc. Etc.

You say you don't want a sleeping bag, tent, etc. I say, no thanks dude. Do you think you will just wander across an axe and saw and blade sharpener etc. out here? lol.
Don't get me wrong though dude, when I came out here I had the exact same mindset. I wanted to prove that I could survive like they did 'in the old days' with as few tools as possible in the most primitive way. I failed, miserably.

My viewpoint has changed on that idea. I say you should bring EVERYTHING you need and even don't need, so that you can survive with absolute ease. Then as things settle, you start getting more knowledge and getting used to it, you can discard things in order to be more primitive. A good idea would be to store the stuff somewhere, not throw away. You could possibly need them someday.

This winter the temp here got down to -50F with windchill. On average it was around -20C or so. I was sleeping in a camper with 3 layers of clothing on and sleeping inside a sleeping bag with 2 blankets of wool. I shivered my *** off dude. Trust me, bring as much clothing as possible, then when, or if, you get used to the weather, you can just not use the materials.

As far as a good location to not find people, out here is good. My nearest neighbors are from an Inidan reserve like an hour away almost. Town is 2 hours away from here.

You say you want to use crafted weapons and trap in order to catch food. Start practicing now is all I can say to that. I could have all the knowledge in the world about making deadfalls and pitfalls etc. and still not catch a single piece of game out here without knowing where to do it. Crafting bows is not easy here, it's mostly all lodgepole pine and spruce out here, and there is virtually nothing as far as natural cordage that would be efficient.

If you are serious about coming out into BC and you came out near me, I would gladly come out with you, though I might not be able to during certain parts of the summer.
I am no expert by any means, but I live here and I've learned a thing or two while being here. Oh and trust me -- being with someone will help you from going crazy. Sadly, I hold conversations with myself daily.

payne

04-04-2011, 02:21 AM

Loved reading that post, Dave. :)

I guess you haven't read my Introduction post, but anyways.
The only thing I really am fearing at the moment are predators: the rest doesn't look like any threat. I mean, as someone stated, 4 days isn't that much. I just wanted a "fair" introduction to wild survival. Not getting any food for 4 days is more than doable.
Cold is no threat neither. As stated into my Introduction, I've attempted Washington's summit during winter. Make some basic researches about the weather there and you should get quite a good picture (funny little anecdote: I nearly stupidly lost my gloves because of the amount of snow that falls there by removing them for less than 2 minutes and leaving them on the ground).
As for mosquitoes, 3 months of tree planting should get me used to them quite perfectly. :P
And being alone; I really and seriously just do not care at all.

I will have money in case things go wrong: I should do this little adventure near the end of my summer (though I still have to cross Canada with my bike after that :P). I currently am leaving to West for about 6 months with something like 2000$, but take in count I most likely will earn money.
Part of a little survival kit contains a kind of aluminum blanket, I guess that's what I'll wear if my clothes get ruined. However, I do plan on bringing an extra T-shirt as it looks like extra-tissue can always become handy in some situations (so I do plan on ruining that T-shirt).
About the knife, I'm not quite sure about the possibilities of survival without one, but I'm quite sure we do not rely 100% on knives: they do not represent the only mean of cutting something.
First aid could be a bit of a concern, but I do plan on improving my skills over it.

I'm not going there thinking I'll succeed, I'm going there because I just have to try it out.
I currently am completely unorganized and look like a total noob, but I'm not taking this whole thing as not-seriously as you all seems to think. As I've already stated, I just do not have the time to get too much over this at the moment because of school.

And ya, Dave, why not meet? I haven't subscribed to any university in order to really do not have any "time-stress", so I guess we have all the chances on the world to meet up: just give me dates and I'll try to fit them with my "schedule". Doing this with someone else isn't excluded at all, and I actually for sure do like the idea of still putting myself to the test while having a mentor teaching/watching me.

BC-Dave

04-04-2011, 03:40 AM

Yeah sorry I didn't read the intro post. And yeah I didn't mean to ramble about long time survival or anything it just seemed to me like you were wanting to stay for more than 4 days.

And I didn't mean to make it sound like you aren't organized or anything. 4 days is really nothing out here, if anything you will be wanting to stay way longer!

As far as meeting up, I might have to house sit for a good portion of summer. Although this isn't 100% so I can't really say. Only time will tell. But if I can do it, I definitely would. And don't think of me as like a mentor/teacher or anything lol. If I was to come with you I would definitely be going all out like yourself. Though I would probably bring a bow or rifle :P We could go drop a buck, smoke it on the spot and really live the life :)

Also to give you a idea of what it looks like out here, type in Chilko Lake and Taseko Lakes on google images. Better yet, if you have Google Earth, type it in on there. There is some reallllly good pictures on there uploaded by somebody. Plus it gives you an idea of what the surrounding area is like.

Justme

04-04-2011, 08:23 AM

There are license free area's everywhere, but unfortunately the law calls it poaching. If you poach, don't get caught, but I would probably just pay the $50 bucks or what ever it is for a fishing license just to be safe. If you do go alone, then at the very least, go to one of the many campsites that are free and that you have to hike to get to. It will not be busy and you will probably have one or two other people camping close by. Might be safer, and it still affords you a great deal of privacy. I hope you know what your doing, otherwise prepare for misery. Hope you don't get eaten, maybe check on getting a firearm.

Rick

04-04-2011, 09:29 AM

Welcome Justme. How about stopping by our Introduction section and tell us a bit about yourself? It's a license free area and doesn't even require a firearm.....yet.

payne

04-04-2011, 03:11 PM

Happy to hear that, Dave. :)
As I've mentioned in the OP, I plan on doing more than 4 days if ever I am doing well in the wild. Continuing as I hate it (or simply suck at it) would be plain stupid. 4 days just looked like quite a good minimum that'd set my mind up about how it really is to survive in the wilderness.

How hard/long is it to legally get a firearm?

Justme

04-04-2011, 07:19 PM

You know Payne, a gun can be pretty expensive, like $500 to $1000 for a cheap one, but if you are going rustic you could get a $25 bow and arrow set from Walmart. You won't even need a license. Now if you see a Grizzly Bear and decide to fire a arrow at it, make sure you are wearing war paint, and shout AI AI AI AI AI.

Rick - Thank you for the offer, and maybe I will introduce myself sometime, but I am kind of private, so for now I won't. Besides mysterious is fun.

Rick

04-04-2011, 07:26 PM

Mystery has no place in survival scenarios. No one should accept your word until we know you're qualified to give advice. We've had posers on here before.

Justme

04-04-2011, 07:31 PM

I prefer people not to take my word, but to make their own choices. Still I will look into the intro section if you insist. Anything you want to know ?

Justin Case

04-04-2011, 07:33 PM

Its all about earning credibility... First step is a good intro,,

Rick

04-04-2011, 07:36 PM

Here's a template you can use if you wish.

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?7813-Posting-Your-Introduction

I understand that some folks just don't like to reveal information about themselves especially on the internet. I really don't have a problem with that. But, as JC said, it does help us to know who is offering up information and whether they should be taken at face value or not. You can also talk in generalities rather than specifics if you choose (I'm between 20 and 30 as an example). Welcome, no matter what you decide.

payne

04-04-2011, 07:42 PM

Justin Case

04-04-2011, 07:46 PM

Hi Payne,,, here is something to consider http://www.henryrepeating.com/rifle-survival-ar7.cfm

Justme

04-04-2011, 07:49 PM

Bear spray and a sharp spear that you can make with a knife is better than nothing at all. Just have somebody go with you, and make sure you are able to run faster than them.

payne

04-04-2011, 08:07 PM

Bear spray and a sharp spear that you can make with a knife is better than nothing at all. Just have somebody go with you, and make sure you are able to run faster than them.
I laughed out loud there. XD

@Justin: Nice gun. However, it looks like it isn't very strong: they are talking about catching small games with it. :/

typ3

04-04-2011, 08:12 PM

As it looks right now, it seems like if I encounter a grizzly, I can't do much, even with a gun, so I guess it's kind of useless to buy a gun I might use once in my whole life for something like more than one thousand bucks (which represents half my current budget).
If I encounter one, well, so be it. Death is a liberation from this society. :P

Payne,

Based on what you've posted so far, I really don't think you're in the right mindset to be going out into the BC wilderness. Here are a few reasons why:

-Your irresponsibility doesn't just put your life at risk, it can endanger others. Volunteer SAR groups, police, and paramedics like myself, all put our own safety at risk when we attempt backcountry rescues. As much as rescuers try to mitigate the risks to themselves, there are risks. For example, having someone hanging from a rope dangling off a helicopter as in a HETS rescue will always be risky. Unfortunately it seems that you're blithely ignoring proper research and preparations, things which may end up with you needing a risky wilderness rescue which puts the lives of others in danger.

-You say the only thing you currently fear is predators. As someone who lives in an area of BC with plenty of Grizzlies, there are things which are FAR more dangerous to someone in the backcountry than ol' Grizz. Chief among those is inexperience and ignorance, especially with regards to the environment you're in.

BC Dave makes some really good points. The weather in BC mountains can go from hot to sub-zero in a matter of hours, and bring with it torrential rains, wind, and snow. Last year I was on a alpine hike in August where the weather went from around 25 C to 0 C in a matter of a couple hours. The conditions turned from sunny to overcast to driving rain then freezing rain then snow very quickly. We were very well prepared, but we decided to head home because of the volatility of the conditions: by the time we got to the trailhead there was maybe 10 cms of snow on the ground. And this was in August in Southern BC--the North is far more intense.

-Getting a gun for predator protection isn't really necessary. Although I do sometimes carry a 12 gauge or rifle for predator protection, most in the backcountry rely on pepper spray, bear bangers, and common sense. For someone without experience around bears, carrying a firearm is, IMHO, a bad idea. The consequences of shooting a bear in "self defense" can be pretty intense, and inexperience might lead you to either use the gun when you shouldn't, or hesitate far too late. Can you tell the difference between a bluff charge and an imminent attack?

Payne, may I suggest you find a buddy, a tent, and a backpack and do some straightforward backpacking along established routes. Straightforward hiking, without a "survivalist" bent, can be very rewarding and educational. It's also the best way to build up the maturity necessary for more extreme outtings.

BENESSE

04-04-2011, 08:22 PM

A lot of good advice given here.
IMO, at 19, payne is old enough to go out for 4 days (according to him) and find out for himself the lay of the land. He'll never learn more than actually doing it, the way he wants to do it. If he finds out the hard way, so be it. That'll be more meaningful than anything anyone says.

payne

04-04-2011, 08:39 PM

Payne,

Based on what you've posted so far, I really don't think you're in the right mindset to be going out into the BC wilderness. Here are a few reasons why:

-Your irresponsibility doesn't just put your life at risk, it can endanger others. Volunteer SAR groups, police, and paramedics like myself, all put our own safety at risk when we attempt backcountry rescues. As much as rescuers try to mitigate the risks to themselves, there are risks. For example, having someone hanging from a rope dangling off a helicopter as in a HETS rescue will always be risky. Unfortunately it seems that you're blithely ignoring proper research and preparations, things which may end up with you needing a risky wilderness rescue which puts the lives of others in danger.

-You say the only thing you currently fear is predators. As someone who lives in an area of BC with plenty of Grizzlies, there are things which are FAR more dangerous to someone in the backcountry than ol' Grizz. Chief among those is inexperience and ignorance, especially with regards to the environment you're in.

BC Dave makes some really good points. The weather in BC mountains can go from hot to sub-zero in a matter of hours, and bring with it torrential rains, wind, and snow. Last year I was on a alpine hike in August where the weather went from around 25 C to 0 C in a matter of a couple hours. The conditions turned from sunny to overcast to driving rain then freezing rain then snow very quickly. We were very well prepared, but we decided to head home because of the volatility of the conditions: by the time we got to the trailhead there was maybe 10 cms of snow on the ground. And this was in August in Southern BC--the North is far more intense.

-Getting a gun for predator protection isn't really necessary. Although I do sometimes carry a 12 gauge or rifle for predator protection, most in the backcountry rely on pepper spray, bear bangers, and common sense. For someone without experience around bears, carrying a firearm is, IMHO, a bad idea. The consequences of shooting a bear in "self defense" can be pretty intense, and inexperience might lead you to either use the gun when you shouldn't, or hesitate far too late. Can you tell the difference between a bluff charge and an imminent attack?

Payne, may I suggest you find a buddy, a tent, and a backpack and do some straightforward backpacking along established routes. Straightforward hiking, without a "survivalist" bent, can be very rewarding and educational. It's also the best way to build up the maturity necessary for more extreme outtings.
I never really intended on getting rescued. I'm not telling anyone I'm going into the forest, so no one will know I'm lost, which is kind of my intention. As I've said, dying isn't that much of a fear for me and I will be mentally prepared about it. However, don't think I'm going in there with purposely suicidal thoughts in mind. It's just a choice I've made, a risk I am willing to take in order to feel accomplished about this whole adventure.
Also, the kind of weather you're describing there is far from that heavy and I am already more than prepared for that kind of situation.

Please take note that, as I've said, I will not go in there as naked as you may think. I've already said I opened this thread in order to gather some key informations to be able to make quicker and more efficient researches when I'll have the time to do so. My current unprepareness is to due me being stuck into a 2 weeks of exams at school. Once I'm done with that, I'll have time to gain some "textual" experience.
Then, as I've also said, I will leave to the West to get hired as a tree planter. I do not intend on turning my thumbs around there neither: it'll be 3 months of actual manual practice of everything I'll have learned here at home. Not to mention I probably will find someone experienced among all those outdoors crack-heads! ;)
It's only when I will feel prepared that I will go in there, and I most likely will feel prepared once I'm done tree planting. If ever I do not feel prepared enough after that, well, I still will go in there, but I will probably bring a lot of extra "just-in-case" stuff (which is something I want to avoid as much as possible).

crashdive123

04-04-2011, 10:20 PM

I never really intended on getting rescued. I'm not telling anyone I'm going into the forest, so no one will know I'm lost, which is kind of my intention. As I've said, dying isn't that much of a fear for me and I will be mentally prepared about it. However, don't think I'm going in there with purposely suicidal thoughts in mind. It's just a choice I've made, a risk I am willing to take in order to feel accomplished about this whole adventure.
Also, the kind of weather you're describing there is far from that heavy and I am already more than prepared for that kind of situation.

Please take note that, as I've said, I will not go in there as naked as you may think. I've already said I opened this thread in order to gather some key informations to be able to make quicker and more efficient researches when I'll have the time to do so. My current unprepareness is to due me being stuck into a 2 weeks of exams at school. Once I'm done with that, I'll have time to gain some "textual" experience.
Then, as I've also said, I will leave to the West to get hired as a tree planter. I do not intend on turning my thumbs around there neither: it'll be 3 months of actual manual practice of everything I'll have learned here at home. Not to mention I probably will find someone experienced among all those outdoors crack-heads! ;)
It's only when I will feel prepared that I will go in there, and I most likely will feel prepared once I'm done tree planting. If ever I do not feel prepared enough after that, well, I still will go in there, but I will probably bring a lot of extra "just-in-case" stuff (which is something I want to avoid as much as possible).

This response indicates to me that you are not looking for any advice from the people on this forum. That being the case - you're 19 and have the world by it's tail. Just go do it. Let us know how it goes.

payne

04-04-2011, 10:38 PM

This response indicates to me that you are not looking for any advice from the people on this forum. That being the case - you're 19 and have the world by it's tail. Just go do it. Let us know how it goes.
I basically meant I knew I could be putting in danger the lives of other by doing this, so I decided not to let people know when and where I might do this since I personally do not care about not getting rescued.
I never said I didn't want you people's help. Just consider I'm saying that messages like "Don't do it" aren't considered like helpful to me. However, stuff like "I've found a nice spot for you" or "Here's a basic equipment list you might want to consider looking at:" are helpful posts.

Of course, some people think that only because I am 19, I believe I am invincible and do not require olders' tips, but that's not the case. I am well aware of the fact that this could be highly dangerous, and I created this thread to receive inputs and increase my chances of survival.

BENESSE

04-04-2011, 10:39 PM

This response indicates to me that you are not looking for any advice from the people on this forum. That being the case - you're 19 and have the world by it's tail. Just go do it. Let us know how it goes.

That's my take as well.
Sometimes, people need to to what they want to do and their common sense will have to evolve from personal experience. The tougher it is, the more they learn. It really applies to most things in life. We all know that, and we've all been there one way or another. We don't always do the right thing even though we know what the right thing is. And you all know what that is as applied to you.
I'd say, payne, go for it and best of luck. And if you feel like it, you'll come back and tell us the good, the bad and the ugly.

payne

04-04-2011, 11:44 PM

Just trying to clarify something: do you guys think I am unreceptive about your suggestions? Or are you about to refuse helping me because I sound/act(/am?) too stubborn/immature?

BC-Dave

04-04-2011, 11:44 PM

payne

04-05-2011, 12:10 AM

I know you don't want to tell anybody because you want to do this yourself, but you have to think about it from other perspectives such as, what if you died and how your family would feel if you went missing and didn't know what happened to you or couldn't find your body for 6 months? Or how much money it would cost sending SAR out for you, etc.

I know I don't have complete certainty right now as to if I can do this with you but even if I can't it's still a good idea to come out around me. You said your tree planting right? Most tree planting is done up around here anyways so it would be perfect.

If I wasn't able to come with you, you would still just be able to do it by yourself except you could basically show me on a map where you are going to camp, a general area of where you will explore, etc. That way I will know where to at least find you if sheet hits the fan. Can't remember if I posted it or not but my nearest neighbor is like 30 miles away, and thats only in one direction. You could go west 60 miles before finding another person etc.

And I don't necessarily just mean like in my back yard or anything, there is parks and lakes around here like 100+ km away that I would drive you to or whatever.

Also I have satellite internet so you could always come back and "update" your interwebz friends on your status, lol :)

But I'll stick to our PM convo as far us our organizing of this.

Oh and I have a wilderness survival book thats based on BC/Alberta, which has some pretty good info but I'm wayyyy to lazy to copy some of it right now but I will later. It just basically tells you the best woods to use for fire bows, how to make lean-to's, proper fire making, etc.
I do not feel like explaining why I do not really care about my family's feeling and why I believe it is actually rational to think so in this particular situation (you must know that I'm a lot into "out-of-the-box" philosophy and rationalization, which usually gets away from human emotions since they are irrational). If people do feel like wasting money and time on trying to find me while I do not want to get rescued, well, I can't say much and surely wouldn't put the shame on me. To the limit, it's just non-respect of my believes and wishes.
(Ya, some times I'm a bit radical on my thoughts. >_>)

Your book looks nice, Dave. :)
I've downloaded a PDF of an army's survival guide, so unless your resource is being very specific about BC/Alberta, don't waste your time: the document has 443 pages. ;)

DOGMAN

04-05-2011, 03:02 AM

Just trying to clarify something: do you guys think I am unreceptive about your suggestions? Or are you about to refuse helping me because I sound/act(/am?) too stubborn/immature?

Well, Frenchy- since you asked...The problem is not with your plan- its with your attitude.

Honestly, you sound like an egotistical, no-it-all fool, punk kid. I was the same way at your age....However, after 20 years of working, living and playing in some of the wildest places on the planet- I have been humbled considerably by ol' Mother Nature.

Maybe you will learn something here- most likely not. Your experienced just enough to be dangerous to yourself- but sadly you don't even see it. Never fear though- Mother Nature often has pity on fools. I predict you'll go on your little adventure (4 days isnt very long to stay out...lost toddlers have survived longer) everything will go well, and your false sense of your abilities will only grow, and you will then pursue even bigger adventures, which will also go well, and further inflate your ego.

But, eventually- the schitt will hit the fan, and either you or one of your partners will get injured or even killed. Thats when you'll really find out what your made of. Thats when you'll really see the power of nature, thats when you'll begin to understand emotion and human connections, and thats when you'll start to understand what Survival is all about.

But, after that, most likely you'll move-on...As the saying goes: "its all fun and games until someone gets hurt"....thats what most people do, they get out of the woods, off the rivers and out of the mountains when they confront the most primal fear we have.

So, lets see what your made of...go look Mother Nature in the eyes- ask her to dance, and see what happens... after she knees you in the [OH MY!], and clubs you in the back of the head- get up and ask her to dance again. Then come on here and tell me your an outdoorsman who "thinks outside of the box"....until then your just another college kid playing on the internet WHO DOESN'T EVEN REALIZE THE MOST DANGEROUS THING IN THE WOODS IS HIS OWN ATTITUDE...

Justin Case

04-05-2011, 09:09 AM

@Payne,, you are over 18,,, do what you want,,, However,, you may find more meaningful adventure in the military,,, enlist ! ;)

DOGMAN

04-05-2011, 09:15 AM

So, in regards to that above post....uuhh...I guess my loser cousin from Michigan logged onto my account this morning at 1am and wrote that....could've possibly been Charile Sheen---winning--- Or, aarrgh....maybe Captain Quint stole my log on information last weekend when we went schAARRK fishing on his troller and that ol' salt wrote that. I am not really sure though...whomever wrote that is way over-dramatic, not a very good writer, and perhaps a little full of himself. Pay no mind to it Payne- whoever hacked into my account and wrote that doesnt know what the heck they're talking about...obviously that was merely the ramblings of a madman.

payne

04-05-2011, 11:53 AM

@Dogman: I for sure do sound egoistical. However, I'd say I'm one of the less egoistic guy out here. Being in love with anarchism's beliefs, I can't do different (and here, don't even start arguing about this political view... I've never ever seen a single person that was against it that actually proven itself to really know what anarchism is about). I plan on leaving city and going to live into communes at some point in my life because I hate how individualist our society became.
I hate working; I love volunteering. Working makes me feel like a slave since I am basically forced to work (in order to gain cash in order to survive... really, neoliberalism isn't about freedom at all). I am the general coordinator of 2 committees at my college, and am an active member of 5 others committees. I also used to volunteer for some organisms that help homeless people.
However, I do not have the pretension of being sure all I come up with is always the best thing and the absolute truth, I in fact change of opinion very fast and often in regards to a lot of subjects and this, simply because I believe rationality is a lifestyle.

If you do fear what Mother Nature has prepared for you, it's probably because you do not see the human as I see it. I personally see it as being a machine that is well under-estimated.
All people hear about are the bad and worse stories, and it's easily explainable by the human's nature which always tends to prefer sensationalism.
You also seems to not understand I do not value life as much as others do (and once again, don't think of me here as a suicidal kid).

There's also another thing people must understand about this project: I've written "4 days minimum", not "4 days then I leave this place!". Setting a basic goal is just a way to make sure I actually try to pass it through if ever I realize I just dislike it.

And... anyways, I quit explaining myself.
People need to decide themselves: either hand out useful and relevant answers, or leave this thread. "Please don't do this, you look so unprepared" or stuff like that aren't relevant to my eyes.

@Payne,, you are over 18,,, do what you want,,, However,, you may find more meaningful adventure in the military,,, enlist ! ;)
I am far from wanting to support the army.

... and now, I think I've just learned I should read -all- the new messages before starting to reply to them individually: I just defended my point on someone who wasn't really DOGMAN and that was ranting. XD
I'll leave it there because I still find it minimally relevant to explain a bit more "Who is payne?". :P

JPGreco

04-05-2011, 12:24 PM

I plan on leaving city and going to live into communes at some point in my life because I hate how individualist our society became.
I hate working; I love volunteering. Working makes me feel like a slave since I am basically forced to work (in order to gain cash in order to survive... really, neoliberalism isn't about freedom at all...

I've heard that comment a lot. About how enslaving it is to have to work to support yourself, etc... Just remember, you will have to work anywhere you go to support yourself. The exchange may not be time for money, but it will always be time for something. That something will either be what you need or used to trade for what you need. Money really is no different than bartering, it's just really a middleman.

Even if you live alone in the wilderness, you are still a "slave" to your responsibilities. There is always something you must do that you may not want to do.

All of those responsibilities increase as well when you have a family.

That reality is why I've never been interested in communes or anything. I'd rather use my time for money to give myself greater flexibility in obtaining things I may need or want. There are two ways to a life of obligations to one's self. Abandon society or conquer it.

JPGreco

04-05-2011, 12:30 PM

payne

04-05-2011, 12:37 PM

I've heard that comment a lot. About how enslaving it is to have to work to support yourself, etc... Just remember, you will have to work anywhere you go to support yourself. The exchange may not be time for money, but it will always be time for something. That something will either be what you need or used to trade for what you need. Money really is no different than bartering, it's just really a middleman.

Even if you live alone in the wilderness, you are still a "slave" to your responsibilities. There is always something you must do that you may not want to do.

All of those responsibilities increase as well when you have a family.

That reality is why I've never been interested in communes or anything. I'd rather use my time for money to give myself greater flexibility in obtaining things I may need or want. There are two ways to a life of obligations to one's self. Abandon society or conquer it.
I'll try to avoid bringing politic into this. >.<
I suggest reading about Degrowth: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degrowth

Working 40 hours/week in order to obtain money to buy yourself things you don't need is how mad this society has became.
While your logic seems to make it appear as there's no difference between our consumerist society and the lifestyle of communes' work, there really is one: here, you work 40 hours only to help people sustain their current lifestyle (which is outrageous) and over-consumption. Those 40 hours also help the country keeping its economical growth, which is a necessary only to capitalists.
In communes, the number of hours worked is reduced because people are living based on the principle "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need".

In other words: you can either work to support yourself and you community, or work to support the whole world (except Third World, of course) and their false-needs.
You might want to take a look at the video "Modern Servitude": http://www.delaservitudemoderne.org/video-en.html
However, it usually isn't very well received if you haven't already tried to think a bit like someone against economical growth. The ideas presented are quite radical, and are some times biased.
I think this is based on "fight fire with fire": "Fight capitalism's propaganda with anarchism's propaganda".

Hell, even in a commune you have more obligations than just to yourself and family. Everyone has a role to play in a commune and most modern communes won't tolerate a freeloader. Maybe a hipster druggie commune will, but most are more along your thought process of not liking how society is so they go create their own micro society, which will still have rules, regulations, and obligations.
I've never said anything against that order of idea. You are 100% right. :)

Justin Case

04-05-2011, 12:50 PM

I think you need to find a girlfriend,,, you should be chasing http://www.petracortright.com/cat.gif at your age ;)

crashdive123

04-05-2011, 12:54 PM

Might I suggest that you stick to your quest. Most here don't take too kindly to being lectured by a young stranger on how the world turns. If that's how you want to live your life - go for it. Bringing it up here is probably not going to help you with your quest.

For the record - has anybody said "don't do it"? I know that some have urged caution, but I believe most said just go do it.

hunter63

04-05-2011, 01:00 PM

I think you need to find a girlfriend,,, you should be chasing http://www.petracortright.com/cat.gif at your age ;)

LOL, Well I for one wish you well, payne, I have always contended that one reaches the height of intelligence at about 18-19 years of age........Then get progressively stupider, as you get older or at least it seemed that way to me.
Stay safe, have fun.

JPGreco

04-05-2011, 01:17 PM

I'll try to avoid bringing politic into this. >.<
I suggest reading about Degrowth: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degrowth

Working 40 hours/week in order to obtain money to buy yourself things you don't need is how mad this society has became.
While your logic seems to make it appear as there's no difference between our consumerist society and the lifestyle of communes' work, there really is one: here, you work 40 hours only to help people sustain their current lifestyle (which is outrageous) and over-consumption. Those 40 hours also help the country keeping its economical growth, which is a necessary only to capitalists.

Ah, but I don't. That is the assumption that I am an employee for someone else that I don't care about. I work for my dad so all of my work hours apply to myself and family.

I will agree on the over consumer part (but thats why I specifically always said need and not want) and somewhat on the working for someone else, hence my comment on abandon or conquer. Conquer means you work for you and your family on your terms. It is possible.

As for the working to help the country, well, I wouldn't be so quick to bash that since this country's ability to protect and provide for its people is what allows you the choice to go live in a commune. There are a lot of countries in this world where you wouldn't have that choice and others where the options are a lot worse. Yes, there are problems with the nation and the world, but I wouldn't be so quick to want to abandon the US. Look at the atrocities in most of Africa. The poverty of China and India (even those not living in mainstream society in those countries). I for one do not mind some of my money going to maintain the US. Yes, there is a lot that can be done better, which is why we vote and can use our freedoms, but there are a lot of places I would not want to be.

I'm not bashing on communes. In fact, one of the best representatives of simple life is the Amish of central Pennsylvania. They live a simple live, provide for themselves, do a little work that goes to the outside world for money to buy some things that they can't make themselves, and just go on living. However, even they pay some taxes (not all the ones we pay, but some) which goes to help them be able to live the life they CHOSE and not have to worry about someone killing them just because they have a different opinion. You want to live in this country, you need to pay your share. There are plenty of places you can go if you don't want to pay taxes. Its actually the same argument I have with illegal immigrants, that they need to pay their share. If you use less than others, you can pay less, that is fine, but everyone uses at least a little.
/rant.

DOGMAN

04-05-2011, 02:22 PM

I say attune your avocation and your occupation and you'll never work a day in your life.

Also, I challenge you to print off all this stuff your writing and save it, then come back here in 10 years and tell us again your philosophy, and see if your living your beliefs. I am willing to bet you've sold out. After 20 some odd years of living a non-traditional, non-conformist lifestyle I have heard all the crap your writing many times...however, i have seen very few people stick to their radical ideals much past their college years. Your not saying anything that hasn't been being said for the past 50 years.

If your really a free-thinker, and like to think outside of the box- why are you just citing books? Why are you living the old paradigm of "going to college"...Free yourself man- Lets hear some original discourse. Lets hear some new ideas! You sound just like a guy who is trying to relive the Christopher McCandless experiment...

Aurelius95

04-05-2011, 03:21 PM

Hell, even in a commune you have more obligations than just to yourself and family. Everyone has a role to play in a commune and most modern communes won't tolerate a freeloader. Maybe a hipster druggie commune will, but most are more along your thought process of not liking how society is so they go create their own micro society, which will still have rules, regulations, and obligations.

Did you ever see The Beach with Leo DiCaprio? A wonderful Utopia on a remote island. Still had to deal with a micro-society. Or how about Lord of the Flies? Anyway, you make good points JP.

BENESSE

04-05-2011, 04:04 PM

At this point, I just don't understand this continued "passion" that's coming across, all wrapped in good intentions of setting payne straight. He is 19!!! for God's sake--old enough to go to war, father children and make his own decisions no matter what they are. As long as he is not doing anything illegal or immoral, (I didn't notice that he planned to) it's his business.
Do you really think that you're gonna change his mind with a couple of posts, or, if you can go back that far, do you think that at his age you would have listened to a bunch of older, anonymous people persuade you against doing something you wanted to do badly?
It's one thing to give him advice on making a pot or fashioning a fish hook from thorns. It's quite another to challenge his approach to life about which he didn't ask advice. I have a feeling you wouldn't particularly take to it kindly if someone started challenging some of your choices.

DOGMAN

04-05-2011, 05:32 PM

Do you really think YOU are going to change our minds about changing his mind?.....some of us just like to argue and read our own BS...

NCO

04-05-2011, 05:37 PM

It's his corpse, I mean body, he may do with it what ever he want's, as long as it doesn't require anything from anyone else. Just saying that you don't need four days to die of hypothermia...

payne

04-05-2011, 05:42 PM

(but thats why I specifically always said need and not want)
Are you sure? Let me quote you:

I'd rather use my time for money to give myself greater flexibility in obtaining things I may need or want.
Anyways, let's move on:

As for the working to help the country, well, I wouldn't be so quick to bash that since this country's ability to protect and provide for its people is what allows you the choice to go live in a commune. There are a lot of countries in this world where you wouldn't have that choice and others where the options are a lot worse. Yes, there are problems with the nation and the world, but I wouldn't be so quick to want to abandon the US. Look at the atrocities in most of Africa. The poverty of China and India (even those not living in mainstream society in those countries). I for one do not mind some of my money going to maintain the US. Yes, there is a lot that can be done better, which is why we vote and can use our freedoms, but there are a lot of places I would not want to be.
First of all, I'm from Canada, not the US. :P
Secondly, it looks like you are thinking what we call "representative democracy" is a democracy in itself. Well, it's far from it: giving your power of decision to someone which rarely listens to its population doesn't look like a "power to people" way of running the country.
And freedom you say? How comes so many people manifesting against the current system get arrested for stupid reasons?

LOL, Well I for one wish you well, payne, I have always contended that one reaches the height of intelligence at about 18-19 years of age........Then get progressively stupider, as you get older or at least it seemed that way to me.
Stay safe, have fun.
Funny to say, but I for sure think this is partially true.

I think you need to find a girlfriend,,, you should be chasing http://www.petracortright.com/cat.gif at your age ;)
This is a very poor way of seeing women and youth.
In this case, you seems to treat women like a quest or a sexual object and induce the idea that youth's phase is pretty much resumed by the chase of sexual acts.
Now I do realize you didn't have this in mind while writing this, but it's my duty to inform people about the fact that it's this kind of thought that unconsciously affects our society.

I personally am a feminist, just like pretty much everyone else, yet they do not want to recognize it because people have a natural fear of social movements and refuse to inform themselves. Who could be against equality of the sexes?

Also, I challenge you to print off all this stuff your writing and save it, then come back here in 10 years and tell us again your philosophy, and see if your living your beliefs. I am willing to bet you've sold out. After 20 some odd years of living a non-traditional, non-conformist lifestyle I have heard all the crap your writing many times...however, i have seen very few people stick to their radical ideals much past their college years. Your not saying anything that hasn't been being said for the past 50 years.
People stop believing in this kind of mentality over the years because they all get so discouraged to see how stubborn the current people are. Whenever I try to talk to someone about this kind of stuff at my college, people just move away; no one wants to be informed, no one even seems to want to debate on ideologies conflicts. Everything has to be done by others while they sit on their butt comfortably.

If your really a free-thinker, and like to think outside of the box- why are you just citing books? Why are you living the old paradigm of "going to college"...Free yourself man- Lets hear some original discourse. Lets hear some new ideas! You sound just like a guy who is trying to relive the Christopher McCandless experiment...
2 years ago, I was just as close-minded and stupid as the people I've described above. Then I met some friends, and my love for debates pushed me to try to understand their way of thinking, and I came to realize it was really just so elegant.
I don't think I would have "awaken" without this little push that granted me my presence at the college.
Starting to think of this kind of stuff on your own is very hard, and I still need people to inform me about certain things before I actually get to see their is a problem there.
So no, I'd never want to get away from the old paradigm of "frequenting college"; I am still forging my personal thoughts.

And about "Christopher McCandless experiment";
This summer, I pretty much planed it with Into The Wild in mind. I wanted to put to the test my beliefs.
I also count on the multiple months I will spend in the West (because I will not only try to do this little wilderness survival trip) to think a lot. I will probably pass most of my time alone, so I guess it's good news to me.

some of us just like to argue and read our own BS...
I love to argue; keep it coming! ;)
What I find kind of sad is that all the time past arguing about these "irrelevant" things is time lost on the preparation of my trip.

So now, let's try to focus on two specific questions I asked in the OP:
3. Geographical information.
5. Edible plants in this region.
The region is near the south of the BC.

P.S. I'd love to create a separate thread so everyone can start banging on each other for our personal political beliefs and such, but the General Chat forum has a rule specifically against that. XD

Justin Case

04-05-2011, 05:45 PM

This is a very poor way of seeing women and youth.
In this case, you seems to treat women like a quest or a sexual object and induce the idea that youth's phase is pretty much resumed by the chase of sexual acts.
Now I do realize you didn't have this in mind while writing this, but it's my duty to inform people about the fact that it's this kind of thought that unconsciously affects our society.

I personally am a feminist, just like pretty much everyone else, yet they do not want to recognize it because people have a natural fear of social movements and refuse to inform themselves. Who could be against equality of the sexes?

Virgin,,,,,,,,,,,

payne

04-05-2011, 05:48 PM

Virgin,,,,,,,,,,,
Am not. ;)

Nice prejudice, though. ;o

NCO

04-05-2011, 05:51 PM

I personally am a feminist, just like pretty much everyone else, yet they do not want to recognize it because people have a natural fear of social movements and refuse to inform themselves. Who could be against equality of the sexes?

Feminism is just Chauvinism turned the other way, be an individualist. All just are, some have more interesting figure than others..

Justin Case

04-05-2011, 05:52 PM

Am not. ;)

Are so

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/rr275/The_New_Guy_album/Smiley_Tongue.jpg

LOL.. :)

Rick

04-05-2011, 05:58 PM

They way I see it, the human brain doesn't reach full maturity until at least the mid 20s. Until then folks are just a bunch of hormones wrapped up in smooth skin and good hair. Trying to tell them anything and have it stick is darn near impossible. I've raised three and now that they are in their 30s I seem to be getting smarter. Let the boy play.

tsitenha

04-05-2011, 06:12 PM

Salut garcon, Le monde ici te donne leur meilleurs connaissances, donne tois meme du temp, sois a canoeter, faire des piste dans la brouse, planter des arbres, faire la peche et la chasse..De quois ca vas te prendre pour ameliorer ton temp et jouiesment dans le bois. Mois J'ai vecue ma vie dans la brouse, J'apprie de mes aines mais c'etait a la mesure d'une vie, mon ecole... tu vois deja que je tappe avec des fautes d'ortographe :) mes dans le bois un autre histoire. Prend bein soins de tois.

Justin Case

04-05-2011, 06:24 PM

randyt

04-05-2011, 06:25 PM

I noticed the older I became the smarter my dad became, weird huh?

actually that's not true my dad and I got along fantastic and I can't remember nary a time we didn't get along and he was a great source of information.

tsitenha

04-05-2011, 06:30 PM

Aines = elders. Dont have the proper key board. but they did giveme a shot to L'aine once in while :)

1stimestar

04-05-2011, 06:40 PM

Just a few things: Before you go off without telling anyone where you are going, I challenge you to watch 127 Hours. Do that, then tell or don't.
Asking us to tell you a good spot and what to bring won't get you the results you are looking for. Figuring out a tentative path, reasearching it, mapping it, planning for it and saying "this is what I plan to bring with. What do you think?" would get you a lot more information that would be helpfull to you. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlhLOWTnVoQ

Justme

04-05-2011, 09:22 PM

Payne, you have a good head on your shoulders, I like your ideology. I will make a better response and give you some idea's when I have more time

Ssgt_DimeBag

04-05-2011, 10:38 PM

Justin Case

04-05-2011, 11:03 PM

Rick wears a thong sometimes, does that count as female ? (lol)

Ssgt_DimeBag

04-05-2011, 11:11 PM

Rick wears a thong sometimes, does that count as female ? (lol)

LMAO! Poor Rick n his thong.
I hear that they can be used as a slingshot!

1stimestar

04-06-2011, 01:50 AM

http://www.musicbanter.com/attachments/lounge/2993d1229236014-body-art-this_thread_is_useless_without_pics.gif

Lol sorry had to do it.

crashdive123

04-06-2011, 07:58 AM

Be careful what you ask for. He has pics.

BENESSE

04-06-2011, 08:02 AM

http://www.musicbanter.com/attachments/lounge/2993d1229236014-body-art-this_thread_is_useless_without_pics.gif

Lol sorry had to do it.

Oh NO!
You've opened the door a crack and Rick is no doubt busy looking for that thong. If y'all had breakfast, don't look if Rick posts!!!!

DOGMAN

04-06-2011, 02:21 PM

http://www.musicbanter.com/attachments/lounge/2993d1229236014-body-art-this_thread_is_useless_without_pics.gif

Lol sorry had to do it.

well, here ya go....

http://to55er.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/fat_man_thong_stairs.jpg

Rick

04-06-2011, 03:04 PM

Is there any that are younger then 50 that have the patience to talk and guide the youth as they would like others to treat there own?

We tolerate you. Does that count?

Let the record show that I am NOT the one that posted. In fact, I'm rarely the one that posts it. Pepto anyone? (I gotta get new boots).

savage

04-06-2011, 04:03 PM

By all means spend some time in the bush. Raw wilderness does wonders for your perspective. Definitely go prepared, and don't put yourself in a place where you can't get help if you need it. Though looking at impending death in the face will probably change your thoughts on the value of your life. In my late teens I had a friend who decided to take off into the woods for a while. He was fairly outdoorsy but had not done anything like that before. He was never seen again. I think they found a possible campsite and one of his boots. I don't mean to discourage you, I'm just saying there is a smart way to do this and a foolish way to do this. The wilderness does not generally tolerate fools.

Justin Case

04-06-2011, 04:05 PM

well, here ya go....

http://to55er.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/fat_man_thong_stairs.jpg

What kind of boots are those Rick ? they must get good traction ?

Rick

04-06-2011, 04:23 PM

Men's boots.

Winnie

04-06-2011, 04:37 PM

RICK!! To the corner with you! My brain has collapsed. Godamighty man, I can't believe you did it AGAIN!

Winnie

04-06-2011, 04:38 PM

Oh NO!
You've opened the door a crack and Rick is no doubt busy looking for that thong. If y'all had breakfast, don't look if Rick posts!!!!

Too late, I was just sick a lot

Rick

04-06-2011, 04:46 PM

But, but, but, I didn't do it. I'm innocent I tell ya. I've been framed!!!!!!

Justin Case

04-06-2011, 04:51 PM

But, but, but, I didn't do it. I'm innocent I tell ya. I've been framed!!!!!!
tell it to the Judge Thong Boy !

BENESSE

04-06-2011, 05:54 PM

Dogman gets 10 lashes with a wet noodle!!!

payne

04-06-2011, 07:19 PM

Ssgt_DimeBag

04-06-2011, 07:39 PM

well, here ya go....

http://to55er.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/fat_man_thong_stairs.jpg

Here ya go payne.If this was out there in the bush with you.....you would want to be very prepared.
Now where are my sunglasses?Lol

COWBOYSURVIVAL

04-06-2011, 07:52 PM

Payne,

I haven't responded to your post yet. No surprise to me it deteorated though. You were advised your question was too broad early in the post. I love this place and it is how it works. The knowledge is here, it is up to you to ask the right questions or search for it. I used to get a rub from the humor sometimes, but it keeps the sight from being really dry. There are more posts about running off to the wilderness here than anywhere I have been on the web. Try direct questions after a search for the information first.

CS

Rick

04-06-2011, 07:55 PM

That's three guys that post the pic and none of them were me. Ya'll should be very proud of me showing such restraint. You know how weak I am.

payne

04-06-2011, 07:58 PM

Ssgt_DimeBag

04-06-2011, 08:06 PM

That's three guys that post the pic and none of them were me. Ya'll should be very proud of me showing such restraint. You know how weak I am.

Very proud of you Rick......now heres your cookie go back to your cage! Lol

Rick

04-06-2011, 10:21 PM

I was headed to the cage when they snapped the pic.

kyratshooter

04-06-2011, 10:43 PM

OMG I was not ready for that!

I was like looking straight into the nuclear flash of an atomic blast. My retinas are gone, my eyeballs collapsed and my eyelashes were seared from my face, but the image is still stamped on my brain.

GET IT OUT!

Justin Case

04-06-2011, 10:47 PM

His poor wife has to look at that whenever he get "Frisky" !

BENESSE

04-06-2011, 11:04 PM

That's three guys that post the pic and none of them were me. Ya'll should be very proud of me showing such restraint. You know how weak I am.

This has to be the ultimate for you!
People reading your mind and acting on your behalf and YOU come up smelling like a rose.
Twilight Zone time!

Melissa Montana

04-07-2011, 12:06 AM

OMG Rick! You bunch of sexy man meat you!LMAO
Does your wife know you stole her panties ?

Rick

04-07-2011, 08:38 AM

Minister of Science stuff actually.

It's a Hong, thank you very much. Only sissies wear panties. Do you see a sissie in that pic?

Melissa Montana

04-07-2011, 10:25 PM

Minister of Science stuff actually.

It's a Hong, thank you very much. Only sissies wear panties. Do you see a sissie in that pic?

A Hong ?
I tried a google search.....yep nothing.

1stimestar

04-08-2011, 01:36 AM

A Hong ?
I tried a google search.....yep nothing.

Hahhaha probably a good thing.

Sourdough

04-08-2011, 06:51 AM

A Hong ?
I tried a google search.....yep nothing.

Suggest Google search: "Where's the Beef"

Rick

04-08-2011, 06:53 AM

Benesse has given me strict orders that I am never to mention the T word again. So, from now on it's a Hong.

NCO

04-08-2011, 08:39 AM

What's Hong Kong then?

gryffynklm

04-08-2011, 09:06 AM

It could be a size designation??

Justin Case

04-08-2011, 09:11 AM

rofl :),,,,

crashdive123

04-08-2011, 12:05 PM

What's Hong Kong then?

Large monkey wearing a thong.

BENESSE

04-08-2011, 12:08 PM

That ain't no way to talk about Rick!

payne

04-08-2011, 02:26 PM

Whenever I'll have updates as of the organization of this project, am I authorized to create a new thread?
This one just ran out of control. :P

Winnie

04-08-2011, 02:33 PM

Whenever I'll have updates as of the organization of this project, am I authorized to create a new thread?
This one just ran out of control. :P

That would be best, this one has gone into the gutter.

tsitenha

04-08-2011, 03:02 PM

No that Hong wasn't in a Gutter it was in.................between

BENESSE

04-08-2011, 04:47 PM

Payne, there's no guarantee that a fresh new thread won't end up it the gutter. You've got to take what you got, (not abandon it) wrestle it out of the gutter and put it back on track.

Rick

04-08-2011, 05:01 PM

A plan would be a good way to start.

NCO

04-08-2011, 05:08 PM

That, or at least something that doesn't include potential poaching, etc...

crashdive123

04-08-2011, 05:17 PM

Payne - starting a new thread is fine. If you want specific, detailed answers then present a specific, detailed plan. Just keep in mind, that once you get past the weeds and into the details, you may not like every answer you receive. Take what you want and leave the rest.

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12-11-2025, 08:11 PM

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yellowcab

12-11-2025, 08:12 PM

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yellowcab

03-11-2026, 05:09 PM

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03-11-2026, 05:11 PM

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05-22-2026, 08:53 AM

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habeascorpus (http://habeascorpus.ru)habituate (http://habituate.ru)hackedbolt (http://hackedbolt.ru)hackworker (http://hackworker.ru)hadronicannihilation (http://hadronicannihilation.ru)haemagglutinin (http://haemagglutinin.ru)hailsquall (http://hailsquall.ru)hairysphere (http://hairysphere.ru)halforderfringe (http://halforderfringe.ru)halfsiblings (http://halfsiblings.ru)hallofresidence (http://hallofresidence.ru)haltstate (http://haltstate.ru)handcoding (http://handcoding.ru)handportedhead (http://handportedhead.ru)handradar (http://handradar.ru)
handsfreetelephone (http://handsfreetelephone.ru)hangonpart (http://hangonpart.ru)haphazardwinding (http://haphazardwinding.ru)hardalloyteeth (http://hardalloyteeth.ru)hardasiron (http://hardasiron.ru)hardenedconcrete (http://hardenedconcrete.ru)harmonicinteraction (http://harmonicinteraction.ru)hartlaubgoose (http://hartlaubgoose.ru)hatchholddown (http://hatchholddown.ru)haveafinetime (http://haveafinetime.ru)hazardousatmosphere (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru)headregulator (http://headregulator.ru)heartofgold (http://heartofgold.ru)heatageingresistance (http://heatageingresistance.ru)heatinggas (http://heatinggas.ru)
heavydutymetalcutting (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru)jacketedwall (http://jacketedwall.ru)japanesecedar (http://japanesecedar.ru)jibtypecrane (http://jibtypecrane.ru)jobabandonment (http://jobabandonment.ru)jobstress (http://jobstress.ru)jogformation (http://jogformation.ru)jointcapsule (http://jointcapsule.ru)jointsealingmaterial (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru)journallubricator (http://journallubricator.ru)juicecatcher (http://juicecatcher.ru)junctionofchannels (http://junctionofchannels.ru)justiciablehomicide (http://justiciablehomicide.ru)juxtapositiontwin (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru)kaposidisease (http://kaposidisease.ru)
keepagoodoffing (http://keepagoodoffing.ru)keepsmthinhand (http://keepsmthinhand.ru)kentishglory (http://kentishglory.ru)kerbweight (http://kerbweight.ru)kerrrotation (http://kerrrotation.ru)keymanassurance (http://keymanassurance.ru)keyserum (http://keyserum.ru)kickplate (http://kickplate.ru)killthefattedcalf (http://killthefattedcalf.ru)kilowattsecond (http://kilowattsecond.ru)kingweakfish (http://kingweakfish.ru)kinozones (http://kinozones.ru)kleinbottle (http://kleinbottle.ru)kneejoint (http://kneejoint.ru)knifesethouse (http://knifesethouse.ru)
knockonatom (http://knockonatom.ru)knowledgestate (http://knowledgestate.ru)kondoferromagnet (http://kondoferromagnet.ru)labeledgraph (http://labeledgraph.ru)laborracket (http://laborracket.ru)labourearnings (http://labourearnings.ru)labourleasing (http://labourleasing.ru)laburnumtree (http://laburnumtree.ru)lacingcourse (http://lacingcourse.ru)lacrimalpoint (http://lacrimalpoint.ru)lactogenicfactor (http://lactogenicfactor.ru)lacunarycoefficient (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru)ladletreatediron (http://ladletreatediron.ru)laggingload (http://laggingload.ru)laissezaller (http://laissezaller.ru)
lambdatransition (http://lambdatransition.ru)laminatedmaterial (http://laminatedmaterial.ru)lammasshoot (http://lammasshoot.ru)lamphouse (http://lamphouse.ru)lancecorporal (http://lancecorporal.ru)lancingdie (http://lancingdie.ru)landingdoor (http://landingdoor.ru)landmarksensor (http://landmarksensor.ru)landreform (http://landreform.ru)landuseratio (http://landuseratio.ru)languagelaboratory (http://languagelaboratory.ru)largeheart (http://largeheart.ru)lasercalibration (http://lasercalibration.ru)laserlens (http://laserlens.ru)laserpulse (http://laserpulse.ru)

yellowcab

05-22-2026, 08:54 AM

laterevent (http://laterevent.ru)latrinesergeant (http://latrinesergeant.ru)layabout (http://layabout.ru)leadcoating (http://leadcoating.ru)leadingfirm (http://leadingfirm.ru)learningcurve (http://learningcurve.ru)leaveword (http://leaveword.ru)machinesensible (http://machinesensible.ru)magneticequator (http://magneticequator.ru)magnetotelluricfield (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru)mailinghouse (http://mailinghouse.ru)majorconcern (http://majorconcern.ru)mammasdarling (http://mammasdarling.ru)managerialstaff (http://managerialstaff.ru)manipulatinghand (http://manipulatinghand.ru)
manualchoke (http://manualchoke.ru)medinfobooks (http://medinfobooks.ru)mp3lists (http://mp3lists.ru)nameresolution (http://nameresolution.ru)naphtheneseries (http://naphtheneseries.ru)narrowmouthed (http://narrowmouthed.ru)nationalcensus (http://nationalcensus.ru)naturalfunctor (http://naturalfunctor.ru)navelseed (http://navelseed.ru)neatplaster (http://neatplaster.ru)necroticcaries (http://necroticcaries.ru)negativefibration (http://negativefibration.ru)neighbouringrights (http://neighbouringrights.ru)objectmodule (http://objectmodule.ru)observationballoon (http://observationballoon.ru)
obstructivepatent (http://obstructivepatent.ru)oceanmining (http://oceanmining.ru)octupolephonon (http://octupolephonon.ru)offlinesystem (http://offlinesystem.ru)offsetholder (http://offsetholder.ru)olibanumresinoid (http://olibanumresinoid.ru)onesticket (http://onesticket.ru)packedspheres (http://packedspheres.ru)pagingterminal (http://pagingterminal.ru)palatinebones (http://palatinebones.ru)palmberry (http://palmberry.ru)papercoating (http://papercoating.ru)paraconvexgroup (http://paraconvexgroup.ru)parasolmonoplane (http://parasolmonoplane.ru)parkingbrake (http://parkingbrake.ru)
partfamily (http://partfamily.ru)partialmajorant (http://partialmajorant.ru)quadrupleworm (http://quadrupleworm.ru)qualitybooster (http://qualitybooster.ru)quasimoney (http://quasimoney.ru)quenchedspark (http://quenchedspark.ru)quodrecuperet (http://quodrecuperet.ru)rabbetledge (http://rabbetledge.ru)radialchaser (http://radialchaser.ru)radiationestimator (http://radiationestimator.ru)railwaybridge (http://railwaybridge.ru)randomcoloration (http://randomcoloration.ru)rapidgrowth (http://rapidgrowth.ru)rattlesnakemaster (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru)reachthroughregion (http://reachthroughregion.ru)
readingmagnifier (http://readingmagnifier.ru)rearchain (http://rearchain.ru)recessioncone (http://recessioncone.ru)recordedassignment (http://recordedassignment.ru)rectifiersubstation (http://rectifiersubstation.ru)redemptionvalue (http://redemptionvalue.ru)reducingflange (http://reducingflange.ru)referenceantigen (http://referenceantigen.ru)regeneratedprotein (http://regeneratedprotein.ru)reinvestmentplan (http://reinvestmentplan.ru)safedrilling (http://safedrilling.ru)sagprofile (http://sagprofile.ru)salestypelease (http://salestypelease.ru)samplinginterval (http://samplinginterval.ru)satellitehydrology (http://satellitehydrology.ru)
scarcecommodity (http://scarcecommodity.ru)scrapermat (http://scrapermat.ru)screwingunit (http://screwingunit.ru)seawaterpump (http://seawaterpump.ru)secondaryblock (http://secondaryblock.ru)secularclergy (http://secularclergy.ru)seismicefficiency (http://seismicefficiency.ru)selectivediffuser (http://selectivediffuser.ru)semiasphalticflux (http://semiasphalticflux.ru)semifinishmachining (http://semifinishmachining.ru)spicetrade (http://spicetrade.ru)spysale (http://spysale.ru)stungun (http://stungun.ru)tacticaldiameter (http://tacticaldiameter.ru)tailstockcenter (http://tailstockcenter.ru)
tamecurve (http://tamecurve.ru)tapecorrection (http://tapecorrection.ru)tappingchuck (http://tappingchuck.ru)taskreasoning (http://taskreasoning.ru)technicalgrade (http://technicalgrade.ru)telangiectaticlipoma (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)telescopicdamper (http://telescopicdamper.ru)temperateclimate (http://temperateclimate.ru)temperedmeasure (http://temperedmeasure.ru)tenementbuilding (http://tenementbuilding.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)ultramaficrock (http://ultramaficrock.ru)ultraviolettesting (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)