military pay cuts?

[oldsoldier]

I was talking to a neighbor last night. She has a son that is in the army and was recently stationed in Germany. He called her yesterday all wound up. They supposidly recieved a letter stating that as a cost cutting move that they ( the soldiers) will NOT recieve any pay for the months of april and may? Has has anyone heard anything about that? I've looked and can't find anything in the news or on-line about it. If it's true how the #@%$ can the :goobermint" do that. Personally I think theres more to his ( nieghbors son) than he's telling. Any clue?

[kyratshooter]

He screwed up big time!!!

I will guarentee you that he has had an article 15 nonjudicial punishment, or a court martial, that fined him two months pay.

It is a big mistake he made too, because I always gave the option to take 4 months half pay. He really ticked someone off! Probably direct disobedience of an order, contraband or he failed a pee-test.

After googling this I found that the loss of military pay is being used as a lever in the budget battle. Someone is threatening to shut down military pay if the continuing motion that is funding our government does not continue and the failure to the Admin to present an acceptable budget closes the government down.

Due to the fact that defense budget is on a two year appropriation seperate from the operating budget this is hardly possible. The government has shut down several times in the past and the military is always paid due to this seperate budget. It will also not affect social security which is a seperate rumor.

[klkak]

Report: Troops May Miss Paychecks in a Shutdown

March 13, 2011

Stars and Stripes

Troops would be forced to work without pay if the federal budget impasse leads to a government shutdown, according to multiple reports citing draft guidance circulating at the Pentagon.

The government has been funded by a series of continuing resolutions since the fiscal year began in October, but the current temporary measure expires on March 18. Should the deadline pass without another extension, servicemembers would begin missing paychecks if the shutdown lasts beyond April 1, the Air Force Times reported. It noted, however, that troops – and Defense Department civilians deemed essential and required to stay on – would receive back pay once the budget situation is resolved.

DOD civilians ruled nonessential would be furloughed in a shutdown and it was not clear whether they would be eligible for back pay.



[B]During the last government shutdown in 1995, servicemembers continued to work and continued to receive their pay.

On Wednesday, Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., called on Congress to pass a bill that would fund the military regardless of whether an agreement can be reached on the full federal budget. It would be irresponsible for Congress to “continue to fund the Department of Defense by passing two week-by-two week continuing resolutions while we are fighting two wars,” he said in a statement.
©

[klkak]

In other news

DoD to Lift Women in Combat Exclusions?
Week of March 14, 2011

A report released to the president and Congress recently recommends 20 changes in the way the military facilitates diversity, and suggests gender barriers be lifted on all career fields. The Military Leadership Diversity Commission is a group of 31 active-duty and retired officers, enlisted personnel and senior executives from major corporations. The commission is also recommending that the Department of Defense eliminate its combat-exclusion policies, which currently bar women from combat-arms specialties and from assignment in units battalion-size or smaller that have a routine mission to engage in direct combat. The Commission's final report is available on the Military Leadership Diversity Commission website.

[Old GI]

My agency says military will work and be paid in the event of a shutdown. Contractors under a funded contract will work and be paid until the funded contract expires. I'm about as non-essential (civilian) as you can get and I'll go on unpaid leave while the contractors and military that work for me stay on under those terms.

KRS - exactly what I was thinking; fined two months pay? Besides, I don't think an official letter with a specified time would ever hit the street, at least not now.

[kyratshooter]

My opinion of this blackmail falls under the heading of extremely political and I will not risk being banned by stating my ultra conservative thoughts other than to say; You simply do not hold troops hostage to promote domestic policy no matter which party you support or what the policy is.

We have never in my memory failed to pay our troops due to lack of a budget.

[oldsoldier]

You simply do not hold troops hostage to promote domestic policy no matter which party you support or what the policy is.

Yeah I sure wouldn't want to piss off a couple hundred thousand armed men and women by tellin' them " Hey you a'int gettin' paid"

[oldsoldier]

KRS - exactly what I was thinking; fined two months pay? Besides, I don't think an official letter with a specified time would ever hit the street, at least not now.

That's what I thought. He was always in trouble for smoking pot before he went in the army.

[oldsoldier]

[QUOTE=klkak;287284]In other news

DoD to Lift Women in Combat Exclusions?
Week of March 14, 2011

IMHO it's about time. My belief is if you can do the job then it doesn't matter if your male or female. BUT if you can't do it hit the road. I served with several women who I'd have welcomed on my team in a combat situation. As well as men who I would not have wanted on my team playing grade school softball.

[crashdive123]

When I firs went in the Military payday was the 15th and the 30th. I can't remember what year it was, but to "save" money in one fiscal year (November 1st to October 31st for Federal Gov) they (and you know who "they" are) came up with the brilliant idea to shift paydays from the 30th to the 1st. By doing this in October, one Military payday was pushed into the next fiscal year, saving hundreds of millions of dollars on the books. That small change created a big hardship for a lot of military personnel. At the time, an E-5 (Sargent or Petty Officer 2nd Class) with a couple of kids qualified for food stamps in a lot of regions. An E-6 (Staff Sargent or Petty Officer 1st Class) with one kid qualified for WIC in a lot of regions. At the time of the change I was single and making less than 6K a year (or was it less than 5K?). I remember feeling lucky that I was making so much, and loaned out quite a bit to some Shipmates for a couple of days (no interest to those of you that ran slush funds). Messing with military pay is not a good idea.

[Old GI]

When I firs went in the Military payday was the 15th and the 30th. I can't remember what year it was, but to "save" money in one fiscal year (November 1st to October 31st for Federal Gov) they (and you know who "they" are) came up with the brilliant idea to shift paydays from the 30th to the 1st. By doing this in October, one Military payday was pushed into the next fiscal year, saving hundreds of millions of dollars on the books. That small change created a big hardship for a lot of military personnel. At the time, an E-5 (Sargent or Petty Officer 2nd Class) with a couple of kids qualified for food stamps in a lot of regions. An E-6 (Staff Sargent or Petty Officer 1st Class) with one kid qualified for WIC in a lot of regions. At the time of the change I was single and making less than 6K a year (or was it less than 5K?). I remember feeling lucky that I was making so much, and loaned out quite a bit to some Shipmates for a couple of days (no interest to those of you that ran slush funds). Messing with military pay is not a good idea.

You're exactly right. "Look at the money I saved on my watch". A shell game that probably got someone a fat bonus or another star.

[woodsman86]

Hello everyone again. I know I keep doing a disappearing act from time to time. I have been quite busy between divorce, WLC, 42A AIT, and now PCS to Fort Bliss, TX. The life of the Army is great. As for this topic I can assure we are going to be paid no matter the budget problem. Though the DOD did not pay Soldiers for a time back in the 90s, as recalled by an old squad leader I had, we are at war and the defense budget for the war will not be affected. The gov't cannot simply just cut off war funds which include our pay. We all must remember no matter what news agency is reporting, that bad news makes for good ratings but doesn't make it true.

I agree with kyratshooter, he got in trouble and received an Article 15 which the Battalion Commander can take half a months pay for two months and that's one expensive joint if you ask me. The military is making a shift to cut the ranks, so more Soldiers will be getting in trouble for things that may have been looked over before. Less war=less troops

I have had no pay issue to this point and have been taking a lion's share of leave lately, to which I have no complaint:)

[sushidog]

[QUOTE=klkak;287284]In other news

DoD to Lift Women in Combat Exclusions?
Week of March 14, 2011

IMHO it's about time. My belief is if you can do the job then it doesn't matter if your male or female. BUT if you can't do it hit the road. I served with several women who I'd have welcomed on my team in a combat situation. As well as men who I would not have wanted on my team playing grade school softball.

There's a lot more to military readiness than passing a PT test or performing well at military stakes. How well will most women do when they see their buddy's liver splattered all over their pretty little uniforms? Lots of male soldiers don't handle that well. What percentage will have the killer instinct of a male soldier, being willing and able to kill that first time without thought or hesitation? Most male solders can't handle that one. I was serving with a new 2lt who broke and ran when he first came under fire. To be fair, he came back about 30 seconds later when the sheer terror wore off and he gathered his wits about him. We called him "Lieutenant break and run" after that. Combat is the hardest, most unnatural thing a man can do, let alone a woman. I'm sure a few will out perform many men, but at what cost? Do we really want to subject them to this horror, which will scar them emotionally for the rest of their life? It's a hard thing for a man to face death. Can we expect a woman to turn and face the guns? Will she turn cold inside, like many combat vets I've known, who have no regard for life anymore? Do we really want to do this as a society? What will become of us if we do?

It's a sad day indeed to see us degenerate to this level. What's next, sending children into combat like some 3rd world armies do? Are there no more rules to combat? Is nothing sacred anymore? Have we no honor? I guess I'm an old fart, cause I just can't see it. Sometimes I wish I were in the grave rather than to see where the US is going, it hurts my heart so.

Chip

[SARKY]

Has anyone noticed that the cuts NEVER affect the politicians?

[Winnie]

There's a lot more to military readiness than passing a PT test or performing well at military stakes. How well will most women do when they see their buddy's liver splattered all over their pretty little uniforms? Lots of male soldiers don't handle that well. What percentage will have the killer instinct of a male soldier, being willing and able to kill that first time without thought or hesitation? Most male solders can't handle that one. I was serving with a new 2lt who broke and ran when he first came under fire. To be fair, he came back about 30 seconds later when the sheer terror wore off and he gathered his wits about him. We called him "Lieutenant break and run" after that. Combat is the hardest, most unnatural thing a man can do, let alone a woman. I'm sure a few will out perform many men, but at what cost? Do we really want to subject them to this horror, which will scar them emotionally for the rest of their life? It's a hard thing for a man to face death. Can we expect a woman to turn and face the guns? Will she turn cold inside, like many combat vets I've known, who have no regard for life anymore? Do we really want to do this as a society? What will become of us if we do?

It's a sad day indeed to see us degenerate to this level. What's next, sending children into combat like some 3rd world armies do? Are there no more rules to combat? Is nothing sacred anymore? Have we no honor? I guess I'm an old fart, cause I just can't see it. Sometimes I wish I were in the grave rather than to see where the US is going, it hurts my heart so.

Chip

Much as I applaude your sentiments and I can fully understand why you feel as you do, women have been fighting on the front line of wars since before the French Revolution. Geurilla armies and Resistance forces have had their ranks filled by women replacing the menfolk who were drafted into the regular Army. Then there's the women who took it upon themselves to defend their homes and families.
I'm not saying women must fight on the front line, but I see no reason to stop them either.

[Winnie]

Over here, it's not so much the politicians, as the Councillors(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_council). Some are paid more than the Prime Minister.

[OhioGrizzLapp]

Also, politicians voted to NOT raise the pay scale of the military for KOLA ....same thing for folks on Social Security, 2 years in a row now, they voted to not raise the KOLA or even give any KOLA. There will be a 3 year moratorium on adding KOLAS for Military BELOW the rank of E8........now aint that some crafty shnanigans to make sure the upper ranks get paid and the folks that do the work get screwed yet again.

[oldsoldier]

sushidog.....Agreed to an extent. IMO 99% of the women in the military likely would not want a combat role, not counting some of the female pilots I knew. However I served with a few females I'd sure not want to mess with. I think there are women wo wouldn't be the least bothered by combat. Look at some of the women in isreal or the mossad. You do make some good points and I agree with them. I think it would be harder for a man to serve in combat with a women than visa versa because many of them would be worrying about watching out for the woman than themselves or their team mates. In that case it may be a danger to others to have a women in combat. At least until that "macho" mind set can be changed.
I as my screen name suggests am an old soilder started in 1977. But even then I felt the same.

[sushidog]

Winnie, thanks for the comment. I feel that men and women have different roles to play. I too have served with many women in the combat support and service support roles. Any yes, sometimes they are required to fire a weapon in defense of their position/lives. I certainly recognize the rich history and invaluable contributions that the fairer sex has had serving in the military. All have a role to play when a nation goes to war, however I view a man's role more suitable to the combat arms than women who's nature is more towards nurturing, building, repairing, transporting, coordinating, administration, planning etc. These are vital roles which women could fill to free up suitable men to sacrifice their lives, body parts and sanity on the crucifix of combat. I certainly don't want to penalize women in any way, rather I seek to protect them and spare them the raw horrors of war, as much as is feasably possible. I recognize that every soldier's basic role is to shoot, move and communicate, so all must be proficient in the combat arts. However, choosing to put women directly in a combat situation does not make maximum use of their skills and talents to our maximum advantage. I feel it diminishes us as a society to sacrifice the mothers or future mothers of our children on the altar of the battlefield.

Chip

[sushidog]

Oldsoldier, I hear what you're saying. I served with a few "life takers and baby makers" myself. In 1977 I was in Ft. Riley, Kansas, home of the Big Red One (the first and finest infantry division.) You know what they say, "If you're going to be one, you might as well be a big red one!"

Chip

[Winnie]

I, to a point agree too. I do believe men in a unit would probably be less of an effective team because of the presence of a woman maybe to the point of endangerment. But I suppose because I'm a woman, I feel if a woman wants to be on the front line she should be given that choice. Personally? I wouldn't want that(I'm old fashioned too). But theres' the rub. Men do not have a choice, so if you're going to allow women on the front line, then they should all go or none at all.
Oh and I happen to think fathers are just as important, but I was a Daddys' girl!

[oldsoldier]

Oldsoldier, I hear what you're saying. I served with a few "life takers and baby makers" myself. In 1977 I was in Ft. Riley, Kansas, home of the Big Red One (the first and finest infantry division.) You know what they say, "If you're going to be one, you might as well be a big red one!"

Chip


Chip never got to serve with them. Never was a "LEG" spent more time jumpin' outa' perfectly good airplanes and choppers.

[Rick]

Chip, I believe similar arguments have been offered up for African Americans, Native Americans, Hispanics, Asian and Gays. If a woman wants to serve in a combat unit my guess is she can perform as well as men. Probably better than a good number of them. Women serve in combat roles in no less than 11 countries today. You might want to talk to Sgt. Lee Ann Hester and ask her how she earned her Silver Star in combat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leigh_Ann_Hester

[sushidog]

You're right Rick, let's just send all women into combat and exterminate the human race in the process. We need exterminating anyway just to consider such an inhuman act. I'll just stay at home, knit doilies and breast feed my kids.

Maybe it's sort of a Darwin award, that these people don't need to reproduce anyway. As I've said before, I've served with many honorable, proficient and dedicated female soldiers, just not in combat. While we're at it, let's "allow" children, the mentally deficient and suicidal, drug users and convicted felons to serve in combat too. I'm aware that some women make excellent cold blooded killers, of this I have no doubt. By the way, have you met my Ex? ;)

Anyway, what does my opinion matter? The world is going to hell in a handbasket and there is certainly nothing I can do about it. I just pray that Christ comes quickly.

Chip

[LowKey]

I'm an old fart too sushidog, never served, but I see women as far more than 'the fairer sex' suitable only for staying at home making babies. The terms you are using and the way you are saying it make it sound like that is what you believe.

A woman is a fully capable human being.

Will a woman go all gaga over a buddy's guts spattered on her uniform (which is no more pretty than the guy's next to her)? The initial shock would rattle anyone, man or woman. But consider that a lot of women are very capable nurses, doctors, or EMTs in roles that put them where blood spatters and destroyed bodies are a daily occurrence, I don't think a woman would go to pieces any more than any man in that same situation.

If a person is capable and trained for combat, and today, signs up for whatever the military decides to do with them, then they should fill the roll they are most capable of doing. If that is combat, good for them. What everybody skirts is the POW issue. Face it, that is the real, squeamish reason men don't want women out there. Because men know what other men are capable of doing. Especially men that would resent a woman taking up arms against them.

I know, I haven't 'been there' so I should shut up. But I hope some of the Firefighters and Police Officers here can respond on women's abilities on the front lines of domestic battles at least.

[Rick]

Chip - Your opinion is your own. However, you response diluted your position rather than enforcing it. I was offering up some items to consider not deriding your position. Not all women will fill the combat role just as not all women choose to be LEO or EMT. Nor would all women be qualified just as all men are not. I would think any woman that has the credentials to land a 12+ton aircraft on a bobbing deck at night with minimal lighting has a pretty good set a cajones, if you'll pardon the expression. You would not want to see what I can do with that aircraft. I wouldn't be pretty at all.

[sushidog]

If my comments appeared to be sexist, I appologize to any women reading these posts as surely this is not my intent. However there are many who ignore the obvious physical and emotional differences between men and women. Am I painting with a broad brush? Absolutely. Are their frail, effeminate men and butch, macho women? Most certainly, but it's not the physical differences that concern me. Neither is it the capabilities of any human being, especially women, when push comes to shove and it's time to step up to the plate and do heroic deeds.

I'm just saying we need to match the correct tool to the job at hand. You wouldn't dig in the garden with a silver spoon, would you? A steel spade is much more suitable for this purpose. Again you wouldn't dine with a shovel, would you? If you dig in the dirt with a silver spoon you can easily damage it rendering it unsuitable for it's intended purpose. Recognizing the obvious gender differences may not be politically correct, but they are real. As a survivalist I tend to be a realist. I do not color the world as I wish it to be, but am merely photographing the images I see.

Yes, we have an all volunteer military now, but this is the exception to all of recorded history. How many among us still remember their draft number. Mine was 300. I think it's delusional to think that we will always have a volunteer military. The cost is far too high to fund a major war. The military has always been about sacrifice. Yes there have been many in recent years who have survived to make it a career. However the vast majority of people who have served in any military throughtout time have and will always be the ones who sacrifice their lives and futures for the sake of others. I would like to see women removed from this pool of available draftee's, how about you? If we set a precident so everyone believes (and the few that volunteer demonstrate) that they are 100% effective in combat, roughly the equivalent of a male soldier, it will be impossible to reverse this trend when the worst happens. And believe me it will.

I have purposely not addressed the issue of the enhanced torture techniques to which females will be subjected at the hands of their captors, as I feel this is incidental to my case. Women who enter combat are certainly aware of the very real possibility of capture and must decide ahead of time if they will allow themselves to be captured when faced with its certainty, or act in a manor similar to the Japanese, denying the enemy the satisfaction and information derived from their capture. A quick, clean death is much preferable to the mental hardships one is forced to endure and relive when one survives extended combat, regardless of gender. One always questions how they survived when apparently more capable comrads they served alongside didn't. We relive events over and over in our minds asking ourselves if there was something that could have happened differently. Could we have done something differently which could have altered the outcome? The "what if" scenarios never end. This torture is as potent as any the enemy could devise, and is the reason many combat vets choose to seek relief by ending their lives. Many (I dare say most) can't leave the combat experience "in country" but take it home with them and relive it almost every night and day. This is the torture I wish to spare "the fairer sex." If I'm a sexist for wishing this, so be it. However someone must live peaceful lives, without knowing these horrors, to make these sacrifices meaningful. If not women and children, who are we fighting and dying for? What's the point of it all?

Chip

[Justin Case]

Just sayin ;)


lQg28Qwmaro

[white84wof]

I am the wife of a SSG in the army and he called me about ten min ago to tell me that he was only paid 1000 dollars this pay period. So yes the rumors are true that they are taking money from the soldiers. I know it may seem like a lot of money to some people but we do not live on post and his bah is normally more than 1000 a month. I am afraid of what this is going to mean for our family. He is the sole provider for us and I am a college student right now. I don't know what we are going to do. I also wonder if this is going to affect my gi bill. I am using the gi bill to go to college and i just got out of the military two months ago. Right now we are all scared and extremely angry. How are we going to pay all of our bills. How can the people in the big office justify taking money from the soldiers when they make more than most of us can dream about and they only have to serve one term and get a paycheck for the rest of their lives. That is not even counting all the free crap that they get because they are the fat cats. I just called some guys in my old unit and there are people that have only gotten paid 300 dollars. Were is the justice in all of this?!!!!!!:flare:

[Rick]

Why don't you stop by the Introductions section and tell us a bit about yourself. Since this is your first post we have no idea whether you are legit or not.

[doug1980]

Well my wife got her pay cut in half for this month because the budget isn't finished. She will get back pay but I don't think our bill collectors will care.

[armywifehawaii]

my husband is an active duty deploying soldier, they didnt cut military pay completely, they only alotted military 50%. all soldiers got single soldier pay, even those with families.

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Noki (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/67288)Lars (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/107074)Neal (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/179812)Brad (http://lamphouse.ru/t/239449)Чаде (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/80116)Якун (http://lancingdie.ru/t/67881)Clas (http://landingdoor.ru/t/163747)Part (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/167940)Stel (http://landreform.ru/t/257653)Side (http://landuseratio.ru/t/167997)Прои (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/225970)обра (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1161077)непо (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/590312)�ауш (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/640)хищн (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/590467)

[yellowcab]

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кра� (http://manualchoke.ru/shop/598315)�хок (http://medinfobooks.ru/book/1578)trac (http://mp3lists.ru/item/4936)Поль (http://nameresolution.ru/shop/575636)Yang (http://naphtheneseries.ru/shop/105018)пазл (http://narrowmouthed.ru/shop/461310)Haut (http://nationalcensus.ru/shop/501590)Kare (http://naturalfunctor.ru/shop/358354)2879 (http://navelseed.ru/shop/101203)Memo (http://neatplaster.ru/shop/454957)Wind (http://necroticcaries.ru/shop/175477)Wind (http://negativefibration.ru/shop/186284)Wind (http://neighbouringrights.ru/shop/507364)Blac (http://objectmodule.ru/shop/108921)Vale (http://observationballoon.ru)
Unit (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/98617)Brun (http://oceanmining.ru/shop/570507)упак (http://octupolephonon.ru/shop/573295)Тоща (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/148361)XVII (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/201127)ЛитÐ* (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/148561)Brev (http://onesticket.ru/shop/579116)ЛитÐ* (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/580982)Ð�бол (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/683315)опти (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/682681)ЛитÐ* (http://palmberry.ru/shop/578017)Luki (http://papercoating.ru/shop/582720)Agat (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/688294)зани (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1167607)Ð�лфе (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1167638)
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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

�айт (http://audiobookkeeper.ru)�айт (http://cottagenet.ru)�айт (http://eyesvision.ru)�айт (http://eyesvisions.com)�айт (http://factoringfee.ru)�айт (http://filmzones.ru)�айт (http://gadwall.ru)�айт (http://gaffertape.ru)�айт (http://gageboard.ru)�айт (http://gagrule.ru)�айт (http://gallduct.ru)�айт (http://galvanometric.ru)�айт (http://gangforeman.ru)�айт (http://gangwayplatform.ru)�айт (http://garbagechute.ru)
�айт (http://gardeningleave.ru)�айт (http://gascautery.ru)�айт (http://gashbucket.ru)�айт (http://gasreturn.ru)�айт (http://gatedsweep.ru)�айт (http://gaugemodel.ru)�айт (http://gaussianfilter.ru)�айт (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru)�айт (http://geartreating.ru)�айт (http://generalizedanalysis.ru)�айт (http://generalprovisions.ru)�айт (http://geophysicalprobe.ru)�айт (http://geriatricnurse.ru)�айт (http://getintoaflap.ru)�айт (http://getthebounce.ru)
�айт (http://habeascorpus.ru)�айт (http://habituate.ru)�айт (http://hackedbolt.ru)�айт (http://hackworker.ru)�айт (http://hadronicannihilation.ru)�айт (http://haemagglutinin.ru)�айт (http://hailsquall.ru)�айт (http://hairysphere.ru)�айт (http://halforderfringe.ru)�айт (http://halfsiblings.ru)�айт (http://hallofresidence.ru)�айт (http://haltstate.ru)�айт (http://handcoding.ru)�айт (http://handportedhead.ru)�айт (http://handradar.ru)
�айт (http://handsfreetelephone.ru)�айт (http://hangonpart.ru)�айт (http://haphazardwinding.ru)�айт (http://hardalloyteeth.ru)�айт (http://hardasiron.ru)�айт (http://hardenedconcrete.ru)�айт (http://harmonicinteraction.ru)�айт (http://hartlaubgoose.ru)�айт (http://hatchholddown.ru)�айт (http://haveafinetime.ru)�айт (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru)�айт (http://headregulator.ru)�айт (http://heartofgold.ru)�айт (http://heatageingresistance.ru)�айт (http://heatinggas.ru)
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[yellowcab]

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