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SurvivalKid
02-22-2011, 08:05 PM
What would be the best knife for me. I want to start practicing bush craft, so I will be cutting smaller logs, carving, cutting. What would be best for me, a serrated or straight edge?

Also a good quality knife sharpener would be good as well.

Thanks for all the info,
SurvivalKid

Rick
02-22-2011, 08:06 PM
Have you ever owned a knife and have you spent much time using one?

Justin Case
02-22-2011, 08:15 PM
IMO. The only thing a serrated blade is good for is cutting aluminum,,

LowKey
02-22-2011, 08:16 PM
It sounds like he wants a beater. One with a heavy back edge you can hit with a log when you need to.

Kid, knives are all rather specialized as to purpose. Some carry more than one. When I go fishing I carry three. A beater, a bait knife and a filleting knife. I sure as heck wouldn't try to hack the head off a 26" bluefish with the filleting knife but I'm also not going to carry the head and entrails back 2 miles down the beach.

Straight edge for carving. But a dremel is faster. :)

Winter
02-22-2011, 08:24 PM
Go with one of the moras. Try it for everything you intend to do with a knife. That way you will have a better idea of what you want and need in a knife.

welderguy
02-22-2011, 08:24 PM
For the price and quality check out one of the mora knives. Also check out a coldsteel bushman also decent for the price
. But for any heavy chopping think about adding a hatchet for thiat duty.,it helps save your knife from being beat on.

SurvivalKid
02-22-2011, 08:24 PM
Have you ever owned a knife and have you spent much time using one?Yeah, I have a husky knife of some sort. its a pocket knife, was pretty sharp til i skinned 10 squirrels with it. Dulled up fast. I have also cut notches for wood making deadfalls, etc with it.

http://gyazo.com/0c5bf400ddbec6f747a9e1b20ad35393.png
http://gyazo.com/75720d08848986d99cf8b4e9746183aa.png
http://gyazo.com/a326d95f0d3a0da73f087ff3cc3b1f45.png

SurvivalKid
02-22-2011, 08:26 PM
Since Mora's are highly spoken upon here. Where could I purchase one? I know a couple guys have online shops on here just cant remember.

Winter
02-22-2011, 08:38 PM
http://www.safezonellc.com/mora840mg.html

crashdive123
02-22-2011, 08:48 PM
Practice sharpening the knife you have now too, other wise you will soon have two dull knives.

SurvivalKid
02-22-2011, 08:52 PM
Practice sharpening the knife you have now too, other wise you will soon have two dull knives.Never sharpened a knife, where can I get a quality sharpener?

Sourdough
02-22-2011, 08:56 PM
Rick, Are these going to be available......http://www.safezonellc.com/mora2000.html
I used mine in the kitchen for about two'ish years. And I wanted a light but sturdy tool for my survival vest, and so I moved it over there.

crashdive123
02-22-2011, 09:19 PM
Never sharpened a knife, where can I get a quality sharpener?

IMO it would be best to learn with either a stone (like and Arkansas stone) or a diamond plate. You can get them on-line or in your local sporting goods store. I probably don't need to say this, but I'm going to anyway - make sure you check with your parents with any of the advice you receive or see here.

LowKey
02-22-2011, 09:24 PM
You should learn to use a Whetstone for sharpening. The crisscross ones work okay but they wear out pretty quick. A good stone or three (depending on what you're sharpening) can last you a lifetime.
The trick is patience in getting the angle right and not folding the cutting edge.

SurvivalKid
02-22-2011, 09:27 PM
IMO it would be best to learn with either a stone (like and Arkansas stone) or a diamond plate. You can get them on-line or in your local sporting goods store. I probably don't need to say this, but I'm going to anyway - make sure you check with your parents with any of the advice you receive or see here.Thanks crash I will be sure to do that lol. She will buy me anything I want, as long as I can give her the cash in return, she says its not necessary but if I want something Im going to get it myself, wether I have to acquire it through her or not. I like having a peace of mind knowing something is mine.

EdD270
02-22-2011, 09:45 PM
I prefer the straight edge over a serrated.
I suggest you look around the yard sales and thrift stores to find a knife and sheath. Knife should have a 3.5" to 5" blade, handgrip as long as your hand is wide, blade about 1/8-3/8" thick. Ideally a good brand, like Case, Gerber, Schrade, etc., but don't have to be for starters. If you're going to buy a new knife, I suggest getting a Mora, they're reasonably priced and of very good quality.
There are a variety of knife sharpeners on the market, most require a level of skill and experience to use properly. The Lansky-type sharpeners that hold the knife onto a rod to guide it along the sharpening stone is great for beginners to learn how to maintain the angle, critical to successful sharpening, but they are kind of expensive. The cheap plastic sharpeners with the crossed ceramic or steel inserts work tollerably, but are not something you'll want to depend on long-term.

klkak
02-22-2011, 09:52 PM
After you learn to sharpen a knife, start buying as many different types of knives as you can afford and try them out. Eventually you'll find one thats best for you.

Camp10
02-22-2011, 09:54 PM
As for the knife (and I am about to take holy you know what) Dont get a Mora unless you just plan on using it to cut tomatoes! I cut one apart to see the tang thickness and found large air gaps around the center of the tang. Want to see the proof?

http://i949.photobucket.com/albums/ad337/lewisknives/100_0395.jpg

If you press down on the blade, the energy is transfered to the middle of the tang (because the end is braced). When there is nothing there to support it, it is likely to fail. Now, I guess it is better to have the air gap on the top of the tang then the bottom. It might handle "normal" work as long as you arent battoning, prying, or doing anything that might require pulling up on the handle (rolling my eyes).... Picture a pencil on its side with the eraser on one desk and the tip on another and nothing supporting the rest of the pencil...how much force would it take to snap that pencil in the middle?

I suppose it is possible that I picked up the only junk one Mora ever made but my advice would be to stick to a full tang knife as long as you are buying factory made.

mosquitomountainman
02-22-2011, 10:37 PM
Serrated blades are great for cutting bread, tomatoes, and rope. Other than that they are the most useless edge you can have on a knife (in my opinion of course). The mora's are great knives at a good price. I believe you'll find that a knife is a very personal thing and few will agree on which is "best." My recommendation is a sheath knife with a blade about 3 1/2 to 4 inches long with a good, sharp point and decent curve to the tip. The next best "knife" is a 12 to 14 inch machete! :pirate

OhioGrizzLapp
02-22-2011, 10:59 PM
Kid, I would say start with a decent Mora and work up from there. After I would say 20-30 knives I tried, I ended up with a Cold Steel SRK, for me, it has been the best knife besides a Randal #1, that I have ever owned. The SRK works for me because of all the rustic furniture and bushcraft I do. It is hefty, stays sharp and will NOT break under anything I could ever put it to... I even used it as a step up on a tree trunk so I could cut a limb and it did not break or even bend at all. Your needs may be different. I do agree with everyone though.... learn to sharpen knives, free hand on a stone and also with a gadget like a Loray, Lanski and other guided sharpeners.

Sarge47
02-22-2011, 11:58 PM
Oh no! Not another "WHAT KIND OF KNIFE SHOULD I BUY" thread! :smash:

Oh well, start out with a Mora, if Cody Lundin can use one anywhere in the world then so can you! They also won't break the bank!(about $15 to $30) Be very carful handling the Mora Survival 2000 if you buy one, it has one of the sharpest blades I've ever come across. To learn to sharpen a knife properly go to your local meat cutter or Restaurant chef and ask them to show you how! Most good knives just need to be stroked on steel from time to time to realign the microscopic teeth. I used to cook professionally & learned how to keep all my knives sharp from the people I worked with/for. Mora may not be full tang, but it's still a great knife. It's also pretty lightweight so it's easier to handle, not to mention "razor sharp." For a good quality folder I recommend a Victorinox Swiss Army Knife (SWK) like the Explorer. It's a good size folding knife to start out with. :cool2:

Sarge47
02-23-2011, 12:17 AM
Check out pocket sharpeners like:

http://www.amazon.com/Smiths-PP1-Pocket-Multifunction-Sharpener/dp/B000O8OTNC/ref=pd_sim_hi_11

Also this might help you learn:

http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Guide-Sharpening-Leonard-Lee/dp/1561581259/ref=acc_glance_hi_ai_-2_t_1

Enjoy! :cool2:

rwc1969
02-23-2011, 12:49 AM
You can make an excellent sharpener using sheets of wet/ dry sandpaper in 400, 600, 800, and 1000 grit sandpaper, and use a leather strop, bluejeans, cardboard, wood or the like to hone it.

This guy has a few vids on the process. This one is specifically for convex blades, but it can be applied to any using the same basic technique.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rt44uDP82CE

I use this for my convex and it gets the knife extremely sharp. For my fillet knives and my little folders i just use a ceramic, porcelain, or steel V sharpener with the two rods. They actually get the knives shaving sharp as well, but are frowned upon for some reason, probably because it takes very little skill to work them.

I beleive a Mora would be a good choice, I like the scandi edge or a flat grind the best for what I do. The only thing I don't like about stick tangs and non-full tang knives is the risk of the handle breaking and driving the tang right into your hand. It does not feel good one bit.

Rick
02-23-2011, 08:20 AM
Rick, Are these going to be available..

Long story on those, SD. Lot's of talk with Mora, too. They failed the Rockwell test and have been sent back to Mora for testing. I think a bad batch got out.

@ CAmp - No argument. I'm sure there are those out there. I doubt that it's isolated to Mora, though. Any injection molded handle is going to run that risk. I've never had one break like you've described or had anyone tell me one broke that way.

@ Kid - Whatever you choose, purchase your knife and sharpener at the same place if you purchase on line. There is no sense in paying for shipping twice.

While I also like an Arkansas stone to sharpen my knives they aren't very handy to carry to the field, IMO. So I carry something smaller that I can use to help with that in the field then clean the knife up on stone once I get home if I need too. There are a lot of good, small sharpeners on the market and which one you choose is really up to you. Here are a couple of considerations.

The first two are by Gerber:

http://www.kk.org/cooltools/gerber-sharpener.jpg

http://www.trdparts4u.com/ProdImages/gerber-09841.jpg

http://www.shoppingwarehouse.net/images/product/51/5_205070.jpg

I have all three and like them all.

your_comforting_company
02-23-2011, 08:36 AM
Rick sent me one of the top Gerber sharpeners there, and I've used it quite a few times since I recieved it. I didn't like it all that much at first, I'm just a fan of stones, but I gotta tell you, when in the field and you need to touch up your edge, that one is GREAT. A few licks of my Gerber knife on that Gerber sharpener to get the job done and if I really abuse it, I can touch it up on my big rocks when I get home.
It's a little too big to go in my pocket, but fits really well on a keychain, or in my pack. Lately I just keep it in the console of my truck and if I'm going hiking or whatever, just pick it up and toss in back pocket or hang on the outside of my molle.

BENESSE
02-23-2011, 09:16 AM
I have something similar to the first one that I use on my kitchen knives. Unfortunately, I've never learned the proper technique and now I'm noticing some pitting on the edges of 2 knives. Seems like I'm sharpening about once a week which seams like a lot because I use those knives on fish, veggies & fruit only.
Is there an idiot proof sharpener? Maybe I should just watch youtube for instruction.

MidWestMat
02-23-2011, 10:15 AM
Having no experience with the Moras, my favorite Bush knife is the SOG Seal Pup. sharp, sturdy, and maintans its edge well.

your_comforting_company
02-24-2011, 07:22 AM
The only idiot proof sharpeners I know of are big machines with clamps and jigs and angle-finders, etc. Not really for home use.
Kitchen knives are normally much thinner than a pocket-knife, which makes the angle narrower (not sure that's a good description). Thin blades won't hold an edge as long and require more touch-up than say, my sharpfinger skinner. It's not uncommon for me to sharpen a kitchen knife 4 or 5 times during processing of a deer or hog.
Is your cutting board wood by any chance, B? Wood and paper will dull an edge very quickly as the fibers can be quite aggressive and plant materials often contain silica. Is there a way you can take a picture of the rogue knife that is getting pits?

klkak
02-24-2011, 03:17 PM
This is a pretty idiot proof sharpening kit. I know cuz its the one I use most often.

http://www.knifeworks.com/dmtdeluxealignerkit4stones.aspx

NCO
02-24-2011, 04:53 PM
You might know my opinion on moras, they make descend screwdrivers... Martiini offers great and relatively inexpensive solutions.

Camp10
02-24-2011, 05:52 PM
You might know my opinion on moras, they make descend screwdrivers... Martiini offers great and relatively inexpensive solutions.

The Martiini is better constructed. The center is epoxy filled to get all the gaps. I had a tough time cutting through the center of the Martiini and there is no pockets or voids. For about the same money, a better knife IMO.

http://i949.photobucket.com/albums/ad337/lewisknives/100_0680.jpg

http://i949.photobucket.com/albums/ad337/lewisknives/100_0679.jpg

http://i949.photobucket.com/albums/ad337/lewisknives/100_0681.jpg

Sarge47
02-24-2011, 06:55 PM
See the problem, SK? Ask that question here & 50 people will give you 50 different answers. BTW, the Martini costs quite a bit more than a Mora. Cody Lundin uses nothing else, & he's considered one of the best Survival experts.

JPGreco
02-24-2011, 07:03 PM
There are knife sharpeners for kitchen knives that are idiot proof to some degree. Small objects that you hold and pull the knife through which will apply the proper angle, though I've never liked those. Then there are electric that have spinning stone wheels that will sharpen your knife too. The stones are placed so all you have to do is draw the knife through a few times and it will be done.

Personally, I always like the long sharpening rods. They are fast and offer a long surface to draw across. I was told to stop sharpening the kitchen knives when I worked in college cause other idiot employees were cutting themselves on them since I kept them very sharp.

Camp10
02-24-2011, 07:25 PM
BTW, the Martini costs quite a bit more than a Mora.

Nearly $4 between the two examples I cut apart....LOL. I guess as a percentage though, that's quite a bit.

Rick
02-24-2011, 08:18 PM
Interesting experiment you've conducted Camp. I had to give you some rep for it.

SurvivalKid
02-24-2011, 09:01 PM
Thanks for all the info, Im going to start out with a Mora 2000 and go from there.

Winter
02-25-2011, 02:29 PM
Good call Kid.

NCO
02-26-2011, 04:12 PM
One more soul lost....

Justin Case
02-26-2011, 05:08 PM
One more soul lost....

I will probably regret asking,,,,,,,,,,, but,,,,,,,,,,, What exactly do you dislike about Mora knives ?? :whistling:

BENESSE
02-26-2011, 05:30 PM
....... :m107:

crashdive123
02-26-2011, 07:25 PM
I will probably regret asking,,,,,,,,,,, but,,,,,,,,,,, What exactly do you dislike about Mora knives ?? :whistling:

The fact that they are from Sweden.

Rick
02-26-2011, 07:53 PM
Really, it's an evil alien thing. He was put on this planet to be a thorn in my side. Nothing more.

Survival Guy 10
03-05-2011, 07:29 PM
The fact that they are from Sweden.

Gosh Dang Sweds

Rick
03-05-2011, 07:33 PM
No, no, no. Swedes = Good. Norwegians=Jury is still out.

klkak
03-06-2011, 04:08 AM
These are the words of a world famous Alaska back country guide.

After hearing a lot of positive comments about the Mora 2000 knife, I decided to put one through some test to see how it held up.

Upon receiving the knife and examining it, the first thing you notice is it’s light weight and unique blade geometry. Then the comfortable rubber type handle. Doing some reading I found that the blade is composed of Scandinavian Sandvik stainless steel. This steel holds and edge well and is fairly easy to re-sharpen in the field.

I used the knife for the following tasks over a several month period:

Whittling fire tender
Making sparks with a ferro-rod
Skinning game to include splitting the brisket of a deer
Slicing vegetables and meat for meals
Chipping ice for water
Whittling triggers for traps
Cutting fabric and leather
Cutting cardboard
Cutting rope, twine, string etc,
Stripping electrical wiring
Cleaning my fingernails
A multitude of other tasks suitable to a light utility knife

The Mora 2000 preformed on the level of much pricier knives. The Mora 2000 is a reliable knife and is now part of my guiding gear.

I recommend the Mora 2000 as a good light to medium duty utility knife.

hunter63
03-08-2011, 09:45 PM
Kevin, I liked your review, ordered one from Rick and the 2000 is currently in/on my fanny pack.
Worked well so far.
Replaced a retired 1968 Mora, not sure of the number.

klkak
03-08-2011, 11:25 PM
It is a descent knife.

beetlejuicex3
03-09-2011, 12:37 AM
Bleh. For what he originally wanted to do I would have said a SOG Jungle Primitive (http://www.amazon.com/SOG-Specialty-Knives-F03T-N-Primitive/dp/product-description/B000JJJ652).

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yellowcab
12-11-2025, 12:09 AM
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yellowcab
12-11-2025, 12:10 AM
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yellowcab
05-21-2026, 12:57 PM
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gardeningleave.ru (http://gardeningleave.ru)gascautery.ru (http://gascautery.ru)gashbucket.ru (http://gashbucket.ru)gasreturn.ru (http://gasreturn.ru)gatedsweep.ru (http://gatedsweep.ru)gaugemodel.ru (http://gaugemodel.ru)gaussianfilter.ru (http://gaussianfilter.ru)gearpitchdiameter.ru (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru)geartreating.ru (http://geartreating.ru)generalizedanalysis.ru (http://generalizedanalysis.ru)generalprovisions.ru (http://generalprovisions.ru)geophysicalprobe.ru (http://geophysicalprobe.ru)geriatricnurse.ru (http://geriatricnurse.ru)getintoaflap.ru (http://getintoaflap.ru)getthebounce.ru (http://getthebounce.ru)
habeascorpus.ru (http://habeascorpus.ru)habituate.ru (http://habituate.ru)hackedbolt.ru (http://hackedbolt.ru)hackworker.ru (http://hackworker.ru)hadronicannihilation.ru (http://hadronicannihilation.ru)haemagglutinin.ru (http://haemagglutinin.ru)hailsquall.ru (http://hailsquall.ru)hairysphere.ru (http://hairysphere.ru)halforderfringe.ru (http://halforderfringe.ru)halfsiblings.ru (http://halfsiblings.ru)hallofresidence.ru (http://hallofresidence.ru)haltstate.ru (http://haltstate.ru)handcoding.ru (http://handcoding.ru)handportedhead.ru (http://handportedhead.ru)handradar.ru (http://handradar.ru)
handsfreetelephone.ru (http://handsfreetelephone.ru)hangonpart.ru (http://hangonpart.ru)haphazardwinding.ru (http://haphazardwinding.ru)hardalloyteeth.ru (http://hardalloyteeth.ru)hardasiron.ru (http://hardasiron.ru)hardenedconcrete.ru (http://hardenedconcrete.ru)harmonicinteraction.ru (http://harmonicinteraction.ru)hartlaubgoose.ru (http://hartlaubgoose.ru)hatchholddown.ru (http://hatchholddown.ru)haveafinetime.ru (http://haveafinetime.ru)hazardousatmosphere.ru (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru)headregulator.ru (http://headregulator.ru)heartofgold.ru (http://heartofgold.ru)heatageingresistance.ru (http://heatageingresistance.ru)heatinggas.ru (http://heatinggas.ru)
heavydutymetalcutting.ru (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru)jacketedwall.ru (http://jacketedwall.ru)japanesecedar.ru (http://japanesecedar.ru)jibtypecrane.ru (http://jibtypecrane.ru)jobabandonment.ru (http://jobabandonment.ru)jobstress.ru (http://jobstress.ru)jogformation.ru (http://jogformation.ru)jointcapsule.ru (http://jointcapsule.ru)jointsealingmaterial.ru (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru)journallubricator.ru (http://journallubricator.ru)juicecatcher.ru (http://juicecatcher.ru)junctionofchannels.ru (http://junctionofchannels.ru)justiciablehomicide.ru (http://justiciablehomicide.ru)juxtapositiontwin.ru (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru)kaposidisease.ru (http://kaposidisease.ru)
keepagoodoffing.ru (http://keepagoodoffing.ru)keepsmthinhand.ru (http://keepsmthinhand.ru)kentishglory.ru (http://kentishglory.ru)kerbweight.ru (http://kerbweight.ru)kerrrotation.ru (http://kerrrotation.ru)keymanassurance.ru (http://keymanassurance.ru)keyserum.ru (http://keyserum.ru)kickplate.ru (http://kickplate.ru)killthefattedcalf.ru (http://killthefattedcalf.ru)kilowattsecond.ru (http://kilowattsecond.ru)kingweakfish.ru (http://kingweakfish.ru)kinozones.ru (http://kinozones.ru)kleinbottle.ru (http://kleinbottle.ru)kneejoint.ru (http://kneejoint.ru)knifesethouse.ru (http://knifesethouse.ru)
knockonatom.ru (http://knockonatom.ru)knowledgestate.ru (http://knowledgestate.ru)kondoferromagnet.ru (http://kondoferromagnet.ru)labeledgraph.ru (http://labeledgraph.ru)laborracket.ru (http://laborracket.ru)labourearnings.ru (http://labourearnings.ru)labourleasing.ru (http://labourleasing.ru)laburnumtree.ru (http://laburnumtree.ru)lacingcourse.ru (http://lacingcourse.ru)lacrimalpoint.ru (http://lacrimalpoint.ru)lactogenicfactor.ru (http://lactogenicfactor.ru)lacunarycoefficient.ru (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru)ladletreatediron.ru (http://ladletreatediron.ru)laggingload.ru (http://laggingload.ru)laissezaller.ru (http://laissezaller.ru)
lambdatransition.ru (http://lambdatransition.ru)laminatedmaterial.ru (http://laminatedmaterial.ru)lammasshoot.ru (http://lammasshoot.ru)lamphouse.ru (http://lamphouse.ru)lancecorporal.ru (http://lancecorporal.ru)lancingdie.ru (http://lancingdie.ru)landingdoor.ru (http://landingdoor.ru)landmarksensor.ru (http://landmarksensor.ru)landreform.ru (http://landreform.ru)landuseratio.ru (http://landuseratio.ru)languagelaboratory.ru (http://languagelaboratory.ru)largeheart.ru (http://largeheart.ru)lasercalibration.ru (http://lasercalibration.ru)laserlens.ru (http://laserlens.ru)laserpulse.ru (http://laserpulse.ru)

yellowcab
05-21-2026, 12:58 PM
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manualchoke.ru (http://manualchoke.ru)medinfobooks.ru (http://medinfobooks.ru)mp3lists.ru (http://mp3lists.ru)nameresolution.ru (http://nameresolution.ru)naphtheneseries.ru (http://naphtheneseries.ru)narrowmouthed.ru (http://narrowmouthed.ru)nationalcensus.ru (http://nationalcensus.ru)naturalfunctor.ru (http://naturalfunctor.ru)navelseed.ru (http://navelseed.ru)neatplaster.ru (http://neatplaster.ru)necroticcaries.ru (http://necroticcaries.ru)negativefibration.ru (http://negativefibration.ru)neighbouringrights.ru (http://neighbouringrights.ru)objectmodule.ru (http://objectmodule.ru)observationballoon.ru (http://observationballoon.ru)
obstructivepatent.ru (http://obstructivepatent.ru)oceanmining.ru (http://oceanmining.ru)octupolephonon.ru (http://octupolephonon.ru)offlinesystem.ru (http://offlinesystem.ru)offsetholder.ru (http://offsetholder.ru)olibanumresinoid.ru (http://olibanumresinoid.ru)onesticket.ru (http://onesticket.ru)packedspheres.ru (http://packedspheres.ru)pagingterminal.ru (http://pagingterminal.ru)palatinebones.ru (http://palatinebones.ru)palmberry.ru (http://palmberry.ru)papercoating.ru (http://papercoating.ru)paraconvexgroup.ru (http://paraconvexgroup.ru)parasolmonoplane.ru (http://parasolmonoplane.ru)parkingbrake.ru (http://parkingbrake.ru)
partfamily.ru (http://partfamily.ru)partialmajorant.ru (http://partialmajorant.ru)quadrupleworm.ru (http://quadrupleworm.ru)qualitybooster.ru (http://qualitybooster.ru)quasimoney.ru (http://quasimoney.ru)quenchedspark.ru (http://quenchedspark.ru)quodrecuperet.ru (http://quodrecuperet.ru)rabbetledge.ru (http://rabbetledge.ru)radialchaser.ru (http://radialchaser.ru)radiationestimator.ru (http://radiationestimator.ru)railwaybridge.ru (http://railwaybridge.ru)randomcoloration.ru (http://randomcoloration.ru)rapidgrowth.ru (http://rapidgrowth.ru)rattlesnakemaster.ru (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru)reachthroughregion.ru (http://reachthroughregion.ru)
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