Anyone heard anything in the National Media about this?

[r0ckhamm3r]

This is perhaps a bit frightening.

http://www.10news.com/news/26814508/detail.html

I can understand the need to keep such things quiet for the purposes of investigating the source and intent of such a device. The question to me is balancing the value of keeping it quiet for investigative purposes against the public's right to know.

I am certain other devices have been found, what frightens me is this: how many have not been found?

Preparing for terrorist attacks requires information on the threats to prepare for. How is one to get information on preparations to take, if the government withholds that information from it's own citizens.

This situation also brings into question the role of the media in our country. This story was reported by local media in San Diego on February 9th. Five days ago, and I still have not heard a single report in the national media. Is the role of the media to keep the public informed, or is it to bury a story at the request of the government?

I also wonder about the job of the Customs and Border Patrol agent that made the comments. Does he still have his job? If you watch the video, you can see that he wanted to tell the truth, but was afraid to. Did he lose his job for having a desire to be honest? Did the Public Relations (censorship) officer lose her job?

Troubling.

[Rick]

I think that's true for any port and any city in the U.S. A lot has to do with definition. What is a chemical agent or a weaponized device? Are we talking about depleted uranium or parts that could be assembled into a pipe bomb? I don't get too shook up about this kind of stuff. The reason is it just doesn't do any good. I can't have an impact one way or the other so I don't stress out about it. It's certainly worth being aware of and planned for.


How is one to get information on preparations to take, if the government withholds that information from it's own citizens.

There are only so many threats you can plan for. You have to way for yourself what you consider to be the most likely to occur and start putting your resources to work to mitigate them and expand your preparations as time and money allow.

And frankly, if they reported on everything they found in a week's time we would probably by bored to tears and would stop paying attention. If they do find something big time then I want to know. The day to day stuff they can keep as far as I'm concerned.


Five days ago, and I still have not heard a single report in the national media.

If your local media does not put it on the wire how would the national media pick it up? If they do put it on the wire and something else is more newsworthy then it won't be there anyway. Think about how many news stories are available at the national level and the amount of time they have to report on them. Really, about 17 minutes in a half hour news spot after you subtract advertising time. That's not very much time. Given what has been going on in Egypt and the economy not to mention other Middle Eastern countries it's not surprising to me that this report didn't go anywhere.

Just my thoughts.

[Trabitha]

Nope, that report was the only one I read and it's being played down like nobody's business.
The only thing that gets me worked up about this one...isn't that there's WOMD's...because we ALL know they have been found all over the world and this country since 9/11. What works me up is that he clearly wanted to disclose something, and his "keeper" stepped in. I find a hard time understanding how that's even considered "reporting". Everyone has a script to follow so as to keep the masses calm. It just bugs me that some of these idiots think that we're incapable of knowing or hearing the truth.

[Trabitha]

http://www.foxnewsinsider.com/2011/02/14/san-diego-port-security-says-wmd-found-on-american-soil/?v=5

[r0ckhamm3r]

I agree Trabitha.

"Move along people, nothing to see here" seems to be the approach used in this situation. If the government finds something that poses a genuine danger to citizens, is the government not obligated to inform those citizens?

[canid]

It comes down to accepting that some people will try to get any manner of thing into the country, and freight ports are a good place to try.

Some people think they need to make their living selling drugs; Somebody will smuggle drugs. Some people think they need machine guns; Somebody will smuggle machine guns. Some people think they need to use WMDs; Somebody will try to smuggle those too. I never saw a reason to suspect the threat wasn't there, and as much as I hate restrictive laws and lack of governmental transparency, I'm glad our ports are as well secured as they are. It would be much, much worse were they not.

You just won't find me naive enough to pretend we're any more secure than we actually are, and I would advise others to accept that too. Far, far safer than we could be, and far, far from as safe as we might like to be.

[Rick]

How do you know it posed a danger? What's the definition? If it was just pieces parts waiting to be assembled then that's a lot different than an A bomb on a timer.

[OhioGrizzLapp]

Yes, he wanted to blurt it out and was under the gun from the public relations person. You can tell he just wanted to call it like it is. O'reilly or Beck will get behind this and find out what really happened. I am pretty confident no Nuke stuff came in, but I am also very confident other sorts of WMD have probably hit our shores.

[Rick]

The other piece of this, at least in my mind, is these agencies are pretty hot to step forward and proclaim how good of a job they are doing. They talked about stopping the tunnel bombings in NY and the subway attacks. If there were something remotely threatening I'd think they would want to jump up and say, "Look what we did!". After the underwear bomber (I still think that's funny) fiasco they need some good publicity.

[Wise Old Owl]

I agree Trabitha.

"Move along people, nothing to see here" seems to be the approach used in this situation. If the government finds something that poses a genuine danger to citizens, is the government not obligated to inform those citizens?

Don't you think this is naive? Off and on I have worked near or on the ports and the security is tight, and all it takes is a reporter to poke a hole in it.... and so can I.

[Trabitha]

The other piece of this, at least in my mind, is these agencies are pretty hot to step forward and proclaim how good of a job they are doing. They talked about stopping the tunnel bombings in NY and the subway attacks. If there were something remotely threatening I'd think they would want to jump up and say, "Look what we did!". After the underwear bomber (I still think that's funny) fiasco they need some good publicity.

Exactly. God forbid someone comes out with the truth and pokes a hole in all their "accomplishments".

[Trabitha]

Don't you think this is naive? Off and on I have worked near or on the ports and the security is tight, and all it takes is a reporter to poke a hole in it.... and so can I.

I'm sorry, but I don't get what you're saying. You believe he's naive for wanting to know? Isn't that what the color coded system was for? Now we don't even have that. Now all we have to go by is what they decide to TELL us. Doesn't that tick you off even a little bit?

[r0ckhamm3r]

I would consider myself more of an optimist than naive. I believe the government has a responsibility to it's citizens. I hope what they found did not pose a danger to the public, but the cynic in me is very suspicious when I see something like this.

[canid]

The color code system was actually devised to make recognition of the degree of personal combat engagement a little more clear cut to condition into the minds of shooters. As adopted by the DHS it was a gimmick which served little real purpose.

We are always in danger both from threats which can be easily anticipated and those which can not. Whether the threat is terrorist attack, reckless drivers or rogue comets, naive would be to pretend we ever have a clear enough picture of our immediate situation - national security or otherwise - for the threat advisory level to mean much. When you apply the color codes to personal security in general, instead of the narrow context of terrorism or combat threats you might realize you are always in danger and the only bearing the color codes or states have is on the degree to which you know about it at the time.

Never fall below alert, never ignore an obvious potential threat and always remember that you can't see everything coming. You can't get much better than that from public addresses or newspapers.

I want all the details I can have about everything that threatens me too, but I'd never sleep at night there are surely some people who shouldn't be in the loop about how on the ball our security officials are at a given time. It's a double edged blade.

[Camp10]

The color code system was actually devised to make recognition of the degree of personal combat engagement a little more clear cut to condition into the minds of shooters. As adopted by the DHS it was a gimmick which served little real purpose.

I think John Cleese shares your opinion......

The English are feeling the pinch in relation to recent terrorist threats and have therefore raised their security level from "Miffed" to "Peeved." Soon, though, security levels may be raised yet again to "Irritated," or even "A Bit Cross."



The English have not been "A Bit Cross" since "The Blitz" in 1940 when tea supplies nearly ran out.

　

Terrorists have been re-categorized from "Tiresome" to "A Bloody Nuisance." The last time the British issued a "Bloody Nuisance" warning level was in 1588, when threatened by the Spanish Armada.

　

The Scots have raised their threat level from "Pissed Off" to "Let's get the Ba$tards." They don't have any other levels. This is the reason they have been used on the front line of the British army for the last 300 years.

　

The French government announced yesterday that it has raised its terror alert level from "Run" to "Hide." The only two higher levels in France are "Collaborate" and "Surrender." The rise was precipitated by a recent fire that destroyed France's white flag factory, effectively paralyzing the country's military capability.

　

Italy has increased the alert level from "Shout Loudly and Excitedly" to "Elaborate Military Posturing." Two more levels remain: "Ineffective Combat Operations" and "Change Sides."

　

The Germans have increased their alert state from "Disdainful Arrogance" to "Dress in Uniform and Sing Marching Songs." They also have two higher levels: "Invade thy Neighbor" and "Lose."

　

Belgians, on the other hand, are all on holiday as usual; the only threat they are worried about is NATO pulling out of Brussels .

　

The Spanish are all excited to see their new submarines ready to deploy. These beautifully designed subs have glass bottoms so the new Spanish navy can get a really good look at the old Spanish navy.

　

Australia, meanwhile, has raised its security level from "No worries" to "She'll be alright, Mate." Two more escalation levels remain: "Crikey! I think we'll need to cancel the barbie this weekend!" and "The barbie is canceled." So far no situation has ever warranted use of the final escalation level.

　

John Cleese

British Comedian and Actor

[BENESSE]

For us in the city, the only (unspoken) level of awareness has always been high alert. It's just SOP. We don't need color coded signs to tell us when to start really paying attention vs. when to be kinda watchful.
I always anticipate all sorts of trouble--from a crazy person pushing me onto the subway tracks if I stand too close, to seeing unattended bags or anything beyond regular, run of the mill quirkiness that the city attracts.
If I heard that something nasty was discovered in one of the gazzillion freight containers that get unloaded here daily, it wouldn't change my MO one bit. Just knowing about it would be useless, unless there is something specific I can do that I'm not already doing. Everything else, to me at least, is making sawdust instead of furniture.

[Pocomoonskyeyes3]

JMO..... But with all the illegal aliens and drugs that DO make it into this country, I just can't see ANY Gov't. agency stopping a DETERMINED effort to bring something,anything they (meaning an organized terrorist organization) want into the country. The ONLY thing that surprises me is that it hasn't happened....Yet. It is merely a matter of time before it happens. It was just a few years ago that a tunnel was found to smuggle illegals and drugs into this country that had been operating unknown for YEARS. We are being naive to think that it CAN'T be done, when people and drugs by the kilos are smuggled into the country Every day. You may think this is pessimistic, but it is realistic, when you realize the existing problems we already have that can't be stopped with the resources being used, that are ALSO supposed to keep us "safe". The Border Patrol is understaffed to handle the situation there. There are many places along the coast and our land boundaries that have gaping holes in them that are exploited each and every day.

All it will take is a Terrorist organization making the right connections with the Drug Cartels to (pardon the expression) Blow the doors open. Oddly enough they say that illegal drugs support the finances of terrorist organizations already. IF this is true there could be WMD's here already. It's Foolish to think that our ports of entry would be the ONLY place that is vulnerable. Quite honestly, if I Were a terrorist that would be the LAST place I would try and utilize. It makes no sense at all to try and smuggle something in at the strongest protected point of entry....unless you are trying to divert the attention from the real point of insertion. I can't believe that people and our Gov't. think that Terrorists are so stupid as to try something through only the Ports of Entry..... you know those places that the Customs, Coast Guard and Border Patrol are at their heaviest concentrations. <Insert Heavy Sarcasm>Oh yeah, that's the Perfect place to sneak something in.

I also would not use something that is so easily detectable, like radiation or chemicals... much easier to bring in a thermos of deadly biological agents that can be used to spread disease that would be almost impossible to stop. If it leaks...so what? It just spreads it that much more. Illegals are already used as "mules" for drugs.... what is so different about the scenario I pose here? "Hey Julio here take this Thermos to America and I will pay you $500 to get you started in the Land of Plenty."

I don't fear our borders being crossed illegally because of Illegal Aliens (only a nuisance really). I fear our borders being crossed illegally for far more sinister reasons, and it seems we are powerless to stop it. Worse it seems that some people want to aid these Illegal Aliens, and rant about those places that are trying to STOP these illegal crossings. Make a concrete wall 100' tall all along the border as far as I'm concerned. Look at the jobs that would create! Until these illegal border crossings are stopped we will always be severely Vulnerable.
<Rant Over>

[Rick]

I realize that was your opinion and I respect that. There is a difference between the smuggling of WMD and that of people or drugs. WMDs offer a traceable footprint that neither people nor drugs have. They can be identified, often at a great distance, depending on type and quantity. Even a dirty bomb could give itself away depending on the material used. From detecting the various forms of radiation to Xraying Conus containers there are a number of measures used for WMD that can't be used for people. There are a lot of documents on the web, both government and civilian, that can offer insight into tracking.

All that being said, the government has to get it right every time. The terrorists only have to get it right once.

[Pocomoonskyeyes3]

I realize that was your opinion and I respect that. There is a difference between the smuggling of WMD and that of people or drugs. WMDs offer a traceable footprint that neither people nor drugs have. They can be identified, often at a great distance, depending on type and quantity. Even a dirty bomb could give itself away depending on the material used. From detecting the various forms of radiation to Xraying Conus containers there are a number of measures used for WMD that can't be used for people. There are a lot of documents on the web, both government and civilian, that can offer insight into tracking.

All that being said, the government has to get it right every time. The terrorists only have to get it right once.

I have to respectfully disagree.Biological agents would not be able to be discovered until it had been sent to a lab. Radiological components can be shielded (Would HAVE to be shielded to be transported safely).If shielded properly only a small amount would be detectable IF it were being looked for specifically, RIGHT next to it. No "Eye in the sky" is going to "See" it. (Besides if "Eyes in the Sky" were being used to protect our border, We would have LESS illegal immigrants, not More) Chemical agents could be concocted on American soil without transporting anything Except the Knowledge/plans.

You are right.... We have to get it right EVERY time, They only once. Our Vulnerabilities are glaringly obvious if they are just looked at from a different perspective. The problem is, No one is looking. It is like pretending the person we are talking to doesn't have a "Booger" sticking out from their nostril. Our Borders are our glaring weak point. As I said, IF I were trying to infiltrate into US soil with a WMD OR it's components our Southern Border is the most likely point of entry. That is our Achille's Heel. Only a fool would try and smuggle a fully complete WMD across the border. Too large. Components however are another matter. It does not have to be a "Fat Man" or "Little Boy" to bring about devastation. "Fat Man" measurements.....

The device was 128 inches (3,300 mm) long, 5 feet (1.5 m) in diameter, and weighed 10,200 pounds (4,600 kg). In accordance with the name, it was more than twice as wide as Little Boy, which was dropped on Hiroshima three days earlier; however, the mass was only 15% more than that of Little Boy.
"Fat Man" was an implosion-type device using plutonium-239. A subcritical sphere of plutonium was placed in the center of a hollow sphere of high explosive. Thirty-two pairs of detonators located on the surface of the high explosive were fired simultaneously to produce a powerful inward pressure on the core, squeezing it and increasing its density, resulting in a supercritical condition and a nuclear initiation. From......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_Man

A device 1/100th of this size would be devastating.


Little Boy, the Hiroshima bomb, used 141 lb (64 kg) of uranium with an average enrichment of around 80%, or 112 lb (51 kg) of U-235, just about the bare-metal critical mass.
From.........
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapon_design
141 lbs of U-235..... Tons Of Drugs are smuggled into this country every single day by various methods.

I think you are giving the "Eyes in the Sky" too much credit.

Related material.....
http://www.dangerouslaboratories.org/radscout.html

Regardless of whether anyone believes WMD's Can be smuggled in Whole or in pieces/parts/components, Our borders are STILL our vulnerable point. All it takes is the Wrong/Right (for "Them") person crossing the border..........

[LowKey]

Everyone always point to sealing the border with "several hundred miles of wall."
Ok.
Now what about the Canadian border?
How much wall is that?
You can't always look to the south for all the 'problems'.

As for terrorism and safety and all that, I don't particularly care to hear about what the government has stopped or found. Couldn't care in the slightest. I just hope, when the time comes, that the government will inform an affected area if they suspect they won't find something in time.

I'm not going to live my life cowering under a rock waiting for IT to happen. Like Benesse describes, due diligence, awareness of one's surroundings are plenty enough to worry about. If you want the government to make you feel safe, you may find yourself in the cage rather than the terrorist.

Also you have to understand that not all threats come from outside the borders. There are plenty enough disgruntled crazies already here that could easily cause enough carnage without sneaking something in through a port or over the border.

[Pocomoonskyeyes3]

Everyone always point to sealing the border with "several hundred miles of wall."
Ok.
Now what about the Canadian border?
How much wall is that?
You can't always look to the south for all the 'problems'.

As for terrorism and safety and all that, I don't particularly care to hear about what the government has stopped or found. Couldn't care in the slightest. I just hope, when the time comes, that the government will inform an affected area if they suspect they won't find something in time.

I'm not going to live my life cowering under a rock waiting for IT to happen. Like Benesse describes, due diligence, awareness of one's surroundings are plenty enough to worry about. If you want the government to make you feel safe, you may find yourself in the cage rather than the terrorist.

Also you have to understand that not all threats come from outside the borders. There are plenty enough disgruntled crazies already here that could easily cause enough carnage without sneaking something in through a port or over the border.

Paragraph 1) You're right. BOTH Borders are vulnerable, North and South. However the northern Border is less vulnerable IMO, For a few reasons.
A) Canada has less "Hospitable" shoreline that is accessible, And it is the only nation above ours.
B) It has better security, very similar to ours, than our Southern Neighbors.
C) It has no established Drug Cartels that are alleged to have ties to Terrorist organizations.
D) It has Stricter Firearm controls in place than our Southern Neighbors.

Paragraph 2) I doubt seriously that you would get any warning from the Gov't. IF Something slipped past them. It would hinder their efforts to catch them before it happened, as well as Tip-off the Terrorists that they were on to them. An Evacuation effort would be (IMO) a Last Minute thing, 1) Because it would alert the Terrorists. 2) The ensuing Panic COULD be worse that an "event".

Paragraphs 3 & 4) Again I agree. Diligence is key. I have lived in Italy for 2 1/2 years when the Red Brigade was active, and in Germany for 3 years when the Bader-Meinhof factions(and others) were around. BG Dozier was kidnapped by the Red Brigade while I was in Italy. There were several incidents that targeted Americans in particular while I was in Germany. I lived my life pretty normally then, no major differences between then and now other than I am less suspicious of everyone now.

By far and large our most vulnerable Border is to the South for the reasons I stated above. Also there are other countries to our South that Could be sympathetic to an anti American Terrorist organization and borders between there and us are easier to penetrate. Until 9/11 Most Americans were fairly ignorant of terrorist threats pertaining to our Country. Sure we have had our share of "Loonies" and that is usually covered fairly well by the FBI. Sooner or later they get caught, as they have nowhere to run to, and very few places to hide. Foreign Terrorists on the other hand would not only be welcomed in other countries but probably very quietly hailed as "Heroes". It is MUCH harder to bring them to Justice once they Ex-filtrate. There is no "cure" We can only rely on "Prevention".

[Rick]

"the terrorist threat on the northern border is higher, given the large expanse of area with limited law enforcement coverage." - Homeland Security.

http://www.freep.com/article/20110201/NEWS15/110201050/Concerns-raised-about-security-U-S-Canada-border

[BENESSE]

We've been extremely lucky so far for whatever reason.
I don't live in fear, I'm not even anxious about it, but I know that it's just a matter of time before someone succeeds again in inflicting a world of hurt on us.

[Rick]

I guess the whole purpose of planning is so we don't live in fear and can mitigate any impact to ourselves assuming we make it through the initial impact.

[BENESSE]

I was thinking more about a localized wrong place wrong time kinda thing. Nothing anyone can do about that unless they're holed up in a cave or in an outhouse in Alaska.

[Pocomoonskyeyes3]

We've been extremely lucky so far for whatever reason.
I don't live in fear, I'm not even anxious about it, but I know that it's just a matter of time before someone succeeds again in inflicting a world of hurt on us.

Likewise here "B", mainly because I don't live in or near what I think would be a likely Target.

@Rick While I agree with Homeland Securities assessment of the Northern Border's security (or Lack thereof), I still think that due to the reasons I listed above, that the Southern Border is the more likely point of entry for any Terrorist Faction. They have compatriots/sympathizers(Venezuela comes to mind) there as well, which would facilitate a breach of our Borders. Regardless, our Borders still need tighter security. While I don't want us to have a version of the Berlin Wall, Something needs to be done. I'm sure there are sharper pencils in the box than I, that can come up with some viable solutions. This is definitely something that falls under the saying "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure." It's time to take a Proactive, instead of Reactive posture regarding Terrorism.

[crashdive123]

For those that are not aware --- OTM's (a term standing for Other Than Mexican) are crossing our border at an alarming rate. Sadly it is not getting the coverage that it deserves. It is getting some, but IMO, not nearly enough.

http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region_central_southern_az/other/terrorists-crossing-az-border-into-u.s.%3F

http://dad29.blogspot.com/2010/05/that-biggest-illegal-problem-otms.html

http://www.examiner.com/homeland-security-in-national/the-mexican-border-war-and-otm-s-other-than-mexicans-video


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TlBZbkaILw

[BENESSE]

I didn't know, but I'm not surprised.
What ticks me off is that we never do anything pro-actively, not even actively...in fact, just the opposite. Unfortunately, it'll take a major catastrophe again for the govt. to start treating this as seriously as it does lesser matters abroad.
After the first WTC bombing in 1992 nothing meaningful was done to prevent the 2nd one, and now here we are again. What is it going to take?
I'd like to see a creation of a serious, single cause movement, that being, Securing Our Borders Now. Without that, nothing else much matters.

[Rick]

How would you do it? I'm not being facetious. What would you do to stop them crossing over?

[BENESSE]

Get the military involved. At the very least, pull 10% of the troops out of places we have no business being in and place them at the border. Drones. Helicopters. Whatever it takes, I don't care. Or border is under attack and we've gone to war for far less than that. For once, you'd see a country united behind a cause that literally affects all of us.

[Rick]

I've posted this before but I think the border should look like...


http://i348.photobucket.com/albums/q348/safe_zone/koreafence.jpg



Yeah, that's electric fence. And it should be. Mexico has a stake in this as well. We should restrict aid to Mexico until they start patrolling their side of the border.

[BENESSE]

That's a great place to start, R.

[2dumb2kwit]

How would you do it? I'm not being facetious. What would you do to stop them crossing over?

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?15144-Cruising-amp-Shooting-The-ultimate-experience!

...'cept, in hummers.:whistling:

[MidWestMat]

The world is a disaster of many kinds waiting to happen and always has been. We can choose not to live in fear, do what you can with what you have and trust in God for the rest. So really, for us to hear about every little thing that cold possibly go wrong actually has a counter productive effect. Either by crippling us emotionaly, or by deadedning us to threats. Better to be as prepared as possible with mind set, skills, tools, and supplies. To live life AWAKE, not just to potential threats, but to potential joys.

[paratrooper_rick]

I say we need a giant moat around the states - fence on the inside and outside - and fill it with pictures of rosie odonnel and actual alligators..... no one would cross that willingly

We could build a boardwalk around it and charge to see it to pay for it's upkeep - just call it the national border amphibian zoo :D -

throw in a few bouncing betties on the perimeter with hesco barriers, concrete T-Walls, and then line it with drums of nuclear waste from the power plants.....

Goood times.... :D

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

I say we need a giant moat around the states - fence on the inside and outside - and fill it with pictures of rosie odonnel and actual alligators..... no one would cross that willingly

We could build a boardwalk around it and charge to see it to pay for it's upkeep - just call it the national border amphibian zoo :D -

throw in a few bouncing betties on the perimeter with hesco barriers, concrete T-Walls, and then line it with drums of nuclear waste from the power plants.....

Goood times.... :D

Save the gators for our northern border...ask Rick!

[Pocomoonskyeyes3]

For those that are not aware --- OTM's (a term standing for Other Than Mexican) are crossing our border at an alarming rate. Sadly it is not getting the coverage that it deserves. It is getting some, but IMO, not nearly enough.

http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region_central_southern_az/other/terrorists-crossing-az-border-into-u.s.%3F

http://dad29.blogspot.com/2010/05/that-biggest-illegal-problem-otms.html

http://www.examiner.com/homeland-security-in-national/the-mexican-border-war-and-otm-s-other-than-mexicans-video


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TlBZbkaILw

Thanks for backing my "theoretical" ideas on the border with facts. I too was unaware of this. It just seemed logical that the Terrorists would be trying just this tactic. It seems that my theories were true..... which is not good news at all.

Rick I do have an idea on securing the border....just build all of our prisons there.....THAT would stop the Terrorist incursions.....


This is the Statistics of where the Illegal aliens(that were apprehended) were from by Nation on P 92. for 2008 If this doesn't convince you that our Southern Border is wide open for Terrorists then nothing will. Keep in mind this is ONLY the ones that were caught..... Who knows how many got away?
http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/statistics/yearbook/2008/ois_yb_2008.pdf

[crashdive123]

Several years ago I read a news story that Hugo Chavez was openly courting Middle Eastern terrorist groups saying that he would "Mexicanize" any jihadist that wanted to be able to blend in easier as they came across the southern border with Mexico.

[Pocomoonskyeyes3]

Several years ago I read a news story that Hugo Chavez was openly courting Middle Eastern terrorist groups saying that he would "Mexicanize" any jihadist that wanted to be able to blend in easier as they came across the southern border with Mexico.
Now that you mention it, I have seen "Mexicans" that didn't really "look" like the "Typical" Mexican..... When I looked at the DHS Report of Illegal Aliens caught coming across the Border from Mexico, I was kinda' surprised at some of the countries represented. It's not JUST Jihadists we have to be concerned about either, as sometimes one Terrorist Group will "contract out" jobs to other groups. This is something that I read about when I was first "introduced" to the Terrorism plight while overseas. I did study this some from what few books I could find on the subject back then. The theory is, that a country might be looking for people from Nation "A" but pay less attention to Nation "F" as there are very few similarities in ideologies/threats. Which allows the "mission" to be carried out.

[SARKY]

How many of you really trust this administration to be able to protect us from a terror attack?

[BENESSE]

Well I didn't trust the 2 previous ones that could have prevented '92 and '01
WTC attacks. Terry Shiavo could have seen those coming.
This admin. no worse and let's not pretend it is.

[Rick]

I don't trust any administration. I do trust our intelligence network, LE establishment and military, however. They only have to be right once. LE has to be right every time. Just ask the Japanese how well that worked at Pearl Harbor.

[BENESSE]

I don't trust any administration. I do trust our intelligence network, LE establishment and military, however. They only have to be right once. LE has to be right every time. Just ask the Japanese how well that worked at Pearl Harbor.

I trust them only to the extent that the admin. allows them do their job and keep the rest of us in the loop. As far as the Japanese at PH, well, that was the good ol days when we had what it took and they didn't. Now, every Kim, Karim and Gupta does.

[Trabitha]

I don't know...our intelligence network has failed a bit too often in the past 10 years. *shrug* maybe I'm just too strict...

[Pocomoonskyeyes3]

I don't know...our intelligence network has failed a bit too often in the past 10 years. *shrug* maybe I'm just too strict...
Sadly I have to agree with Trabitha. Our "Intelligence" agencies have resorted to too much reliance on "Electronic Intelligence" and not enough on "Human Intelligence". It has hurt us in a few instances that could have been prevented had Hum Int sources been more available. No matter how good electronics and Technology may get, there are some things that only a Human can really do well. Still considering all things, they do a pretty good job. Maybe not as good as they could.... but still a pretty good job.

[crashdive123]

It's not that they "decided" to rely on other than human intelligence. Congress tied their hands in the past, basically passing legislation (or maybe it was a threat to pull funding) that did not allow the intelligence agencies to "do business" with bad guys.

[BENESSE]

Speaking of human intelligence...watch "Munich" if you haven't already.
It's very gratifyng because it's based on actual events.

[Pocomoonskyeyes3]

Yeah another case of Politicians meddling with stuff they should leave alone....

Honestly I don't know who is the bigger threat... Terrorists or our own Politicians. Maybe the Intelligence services should do an assessment of that.:innocent:

[crashdive123]

I think that neither are the biggest threat to this country. I won't share my thoughts here, as it would probably start a flame war and get me banned.:innocent:

[r0ckhamm3r]

Congress: "You people in the intelligence community are no longer allowed to deal with unsavory people in any way"

CIA: "But that will severely hamper our ability to collect usable intelligence"

Congress: "You can gather intelligence using lily white sources, we don't want to hear you whine about it any more, the matter is closed. By the way, we are cutting a quarter of your budget."

6 months later, after a major incident

Congress: "We need to know why our intelligence community failed to let us know about this"

CIA: "Umm, you forbade us to deal with unsavory people and cut our budget"

Congress: "We need to hold hearings and have an investigation into the failures of the intelligence community, someone must be held accountable"

[Rick]

You WANT me on that wall. You NEED me on that wall. Hmmm. Who was that? Now, let me think.

[yellowcab]

RING (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/4499)201.4 (http://cottagenet.ru/plan/863)Bett (http://eyesvision.ru/better-eyesight-magazine-better-eyesight-1922-11)CHAP (http://eyesvisions.com/stories-from-the-clinic-chapter-5)Пи�а (http://factoringfee.ru/t/1387016)Хукк (http://filmzones.ru/t/1379963)Жанг (http://gadwall.ru/t/1491835)Хоме (http://gaffertape.ru/t/1321513)учре (http://gageboard.ru/t/1232834)DISN (http://gagrule.ru/t/1040066)Волк (http://gallduct.ru/t/1611501)печа (http://galvanometric.ru/t/1659161)Onli (http://gangforeman.ru/t/1678673)Alri (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/1702932)Крым (http://garbagechute.ru/t/1582628)
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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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Flor (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/784371)Miyo (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/610974)�абу (http://kentishglory.ru/t/886745)Гани (http://kerbweight.ru/t/834859)luna (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/607116)кара (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/609908)Kenn (http://keyserum.ru/t/1009680)фото (http://kickplate.ru/t/648230)Козл (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/691178)ASAS (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/607084)Zone (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/610252)пути (http://kinozones.ru/film/5434)Поту (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/654878)фиан (http://kneejoint.ru/t/606486)обра (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/1015879)
Zone (http://knockonatom.ru/t/608760)XVII (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/653752)Hara (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/677610)Zone (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/1193481)Лима (http://laborracket.ru/t/768427)Igor (http://labourearnings.ru/t/1002543)Chri (http://labourleasing.ru/t/897668)Епан (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/1067921)XIII (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/1073703)1148 (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/910799)Zone (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/1185961)арми (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/857926)Бари (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/817027)XVII (http://laggingload.ru/t/836738)Кард (http://laissezaller.ru/t/857462)
учен (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/835061)Vasm (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/841691)Сухо (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/838378)газе (http://lamphouse.ru/t/1056818)Ð�бра (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/834026)Геор (http://lancingdie.ru/t/820326)Scho (http://landingdoor.ru/t/819427)NBRD (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/1183796)Bett (http://landreform.ru/t/1071628)ПелÑ� (http://landuseratio.ru/t/859709)Zone (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/1190189)храм (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1162036)Ð*уин (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/1536653)Dolb (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/1138)хоро (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/591165)

[yellowcab]

беже (http://laterevent.ru/shop/1178828)Zanu (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/452696)Clau (http://layabout.ru/shop/599885)Севе (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/600751)комп (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/107073)Соде (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/466337)This (http://leaveword.ru/shop/794135)Вашк (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/305460)Blue (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/577629)9500 (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/447108)Song (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/269391)Кита (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/669745)(оло (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/601022)Hyun (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/612625)четв (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/1174832)
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happ (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/457391)Loui (http://oceanmining.ru/shop/142138)Fres (http://octupolephonon.ru/shop/143171)авто (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/149518)ЛитÐ* (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/203472)Кады (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/150824)ЛитÐ* (http://onesticket.ru/shop/581106)Fing (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/583499)ЛитÐ* (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/685321)ЛитÐ* (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/684733)Quee (http://palmberry.ru/shop/689508)ЛитÐ* (http://papercoating.ru/shop/584704)окон (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/690155)Иллю (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1171767)Ханд (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1171749)
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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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