Being prepared is actually a tough proposition.....

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

I find myself thinking and trying harder than ever lately to truely be prepared. I am good for a week or a month. I am really finding it hard to grasp any longer term scenario. I am doubtful it will ever happen, but am amazed at how comfortable the thought is for some. I for one know it won't be so easy. I know that I have plenty of preperations and enough knowledge to get me by. Throw a family in the mix and healthcare for the entire family....My mind just can't grasp it. So if you smirk at me and don't share my concern, let's hear from you. I want to pick your brain!.......

[BENESSE]

Are you saying that the responsibility for so many people for a protracted period of time seems overwhelming to you?

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

Are you saying that the responsibility for so many people for a protracted period of time seems overwhelming to you?

I am absolutely not saying that! I am a Father it is what I do!

[BENESSE]

I find myself thinking and trying harder than ever lately to truely be prepared. I am good for a week or a month. I am really finding it hard to grasp any longer term scenario. I am doubtful it will ever happen, but am amazed at how comfortable the thought is for some. I for one know it won't be so easy. I know that I have plenty of preperations and enough knowledge to get me by. Throw a family in the mix and healthcare for the entire family....My mind just can't grasp it. So if you smirk at me and don't share my concern, let's hear from you. I want to pick your brain!.......

I am trying to understand this part CS.

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

I am trying to understand this part CS.

It is not anything any Father worth his salt, doesn't loose sleep over. I am happy to be the person responsible and I don't run from a difficult proposition, rather I prefer to confront it head on. I love a challenge. But I am not conceited to the point that I have lost reality and realize there are some real requirements of my families current day to day that would be really difficult to provide. There is alot of try in me, but I'll never be a doctor...

[Rick]

I think I'm with you. I don't foresee any action that would last over 2 weeks. I know there are a lot that disagree with that and that's okay. The best we can do is look into that crystal ball and decipher what is MOST likely to occur and what it's duration will be. For me, that's built around weather and man made accidents. Anything else COULD occur but it's not on my most probably list.

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

I think I'm with you. I don't foresee any action that would last over 2 weeks. I know there are a lot that disagree with that and that's okay. The best we can do is look into that crystal ball and decipher what is MOST likely to occur and what it's duration will be. For me, that's built around weather and man made accidents. Anything else COULD occur but it's not on my most probably list.

Yeah, your with me Rick. When you really get down to it and push it out past a month. Alot is lost and I realize it...Do we survive?...Sure, but it is beyond any preparedness I have read here or anywhere else.

[Rick]

If you have kids (grandkids) then also have to figure in what you have to do day to day to keep the lights on and food on the table. That alone is no cheap task. Then you factor in preparedness gear and at some point you have to realistically place a balance on what you can do in the near term and what you spend for long term protection. If the pot of gold was unlimited it would be easy but since it's not you do the best you can and don't worry about it.

[BENESSE]

To me, it's that balance (piece of mind) that's hard to achieve.
There are so many layers to it--present vs future...certain vs. probable vs. least likely..."living" life vs. preparing to survive...on and on.
No doubt money helps to diffuse some fears but a pragmatic mind set in sorting it all out is much more important, IMO. And action. Start somewhere...anywhere...and build from there. I've discovered that thinking about a task is more overwhelming than actually tackling it.

[Don]

I find myself thinking and trying harder than ever lately to truely be prepared. I am good for a week or a month. I am really finding it hard to grasp any longer term scenario. I am doubtful it will ever happen, but am amazed at how comfortable the thought is for some. I for one know it won't be so easy. I know that I have plenty of preperations and enough knowledge to get me by. Throw a family in the mix and healthcare for the entire family....My mind just can't grasp it. So if you smirk at me and don't share my concern, let's hear from you. I want to pick your brain!.......

I understand what your driving at. The what ifs are just too numerous to effectively plan for. There is much more to surviving than just food water and shelter especially long term. My biggest concern in a survival situation is health care. My wife and I are both in our 50's. I have no chronic health issues but my wife does, how much medication can be stockpiled and what if her issues get worse. My son has Down Syndrome and is pretty healthy but he is prone to secondary infections when he gets a cold. What about treating injuries? Can I set a bone or stitch a bad cut? When I think of the many possible challenges I wonder if my preparations are just a vain exercise in ego. The best I can hope for is that if things get real bad then the worst will last only months and no more than a year. Even better, the worst will only disrupt our lives and make things like power and other comforts unreliable. Long term survival in that case may be doable.

Don

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

My point has been missed completely....

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

I understand what your driving at. The what ifs are just too numerous to effectively plan for. There is much more to surviving than just food water and shelter especially long term. My biggest concern in a survival situation is health care. My wife and I are both in our 50's. I have no chronic health issues but my wife does, how much medication can be stockpiled and what if her issues get worse. My son has Down Syndrome and is pretty healthy but he is prone to secondary infections when he gets a cold. What about treating injuries? Can I set a bone or stitch a bad cut? When I think of the many possible challenges I wonder if my preparations are just a vain exercise in ego. The best I can hope for is that if things get real bad then the worst will last only months and no more than a year. Even better, the worst will only disrupt our lives and make things like power and other comforts unreliable. Long term survival in that case may be doable.

Don

Don,

Your real close to what I tried to state. Good to hear from you! Thanks.

[Don]

Glad I came close.

Don

[Rick]

About the only thing you can do is look back into our own history and try to decide from that. We've had a number of longer term issues beyond the Civil War. The year without a summer, San Francisco earthquake, etc. Basic facilities were available if not throughout then shortly after the event. Medical care (such as it was back then) was available.

[Winter]

For most of us there comes a point with preparedness that improving it is not fiscally responsible.

Buy 200lbs of rice, 200 large cans of soup, a good water filter, and you are miles ahead of so many and will survive 90% of SHTF's.

My eldest child will be leaving home soon. I have no plan. I just have to allow it to be what it is. Her college choice may or may not allow her an AR in the dorm.

[Winnie]

CS, I think I know where you're coming from. It's not in the British psyche to be prepared as we know it on the forums. I just found it impossible to imagine anything that could go wrong enough for me to want to survive long term. I happen to be in the Rick camp again. I'm good to go for up to 3 months, and I've come to the conclusion that if things go on any longer well then, looks like I'd be digging my own grave, and that doesn't bother me. I'm perfectly happy to leave end of the world stuff to the tinfoil hat brigade.
I completely appreciate you are in a totally different situation, because you have a young family. However I still believe there is little chance of anything happening that would affect the whole of the world all at once. Remember, you live in a huge country and it's highly unlikely the US is going to fall off the map in one go!
Is what bothers you most health issues and how you would deal with them? If so, the only thing I can suggest are first aid courses - basic, intermediate and advanced. As you become more educated you can increase your first aid kit. And the big bonus you can pick the brains of the instructors while there. I'm sure they would recommend what items would be of most use and what you could confidently use. As a layman there's not really much more you can do to prepare yourself. I hope I've been of some use.

[randyt]

can you partnership up with a group of like minded folk? If so hopefully there would be medical training amongst the group. I'm talking a informal alliance.

[Don]

can you partnership up with a group of like minded folk? If so hopefully there would be medical training amongst the group. I'm talking a informal alliance.

I think you've hit the nail on the head in terms of long term survival. As much as I'd like to think I could go it alone and head up to my rural property with my food and fuel I realize that that has to be a last resort option. I live in a small city in central NH on a small lot but with enough ground to garden. I'm only steps from the local hospital and my neighbors are great folks who make it a habit to help each other out. Leaving that would mean that things have gotten really, really bad. I can forsee my neighbors banding together for self defence,cooperative gardening and mutual aid. If we could overcome the problems we are likely to face like the city sewer and water shutting down and keeping warm then we could make do nicely. We have very little crime in my town but we also have a lot of folks living on the edge of poverty or already getting government assistance. What they resort to when things get tough could determine whether I stay put or bugout. If I can't get through simple errands in town without having to draw a gun then me and mine will head out.

Don

[kyratshooter]

This thread reminds me how short trem the America Memory is. Or the British for that matter.

Winnie is sitting in the middle of a catostrophic winter storm season, for which no one was prepared. How many weeks has that been going on now?

My regional governments have not been prepared for the winter blasts we have endured this year. Apparently we had winter last year and it was not supposed to return.

Hurricane Katrina still has almost a million U.S. citizens displaced from their homes. Is a 5 year stint as a refugee, inside the U.S. long term enough for one to endure. Apparently we have decided all have been compensated and no one wants to go back home.

We had a thread a couple of days ago where ther DHS/FEMA was buying food for 7,000,000, for earthquake survival and response in the New Madrid Fault area. With a 5 year span with no forseeable recoverey in New Orleans, what is the prospect for Memphis, St louis, Peducah KY, Louisville and possibly Cincinnati and Chicago if that fault rips again? Yet survival boards one and all were touting this as part of the large scale plot against us. Power and control over the people.

Just because you can not 'forsee it" does not mean it is not a distinct possibility. If one can not see long term problems why is one here? Anyone on this computer can go for two weeks without food. Most of us need too. Out little weekend emergencies in the woods are situations we should be able to solve with what is in our pockets.

If there is no need for long term preps why do we discuss them? Canning and drying food, gardening, homesteading, off grid systemns are just a lure to the board and no one is really doing that stuff? We are all just sitting behind a keyboard eating twinkies?

I have seen long term SHTF with my own eyes. It exists and it can come here. The people that have endured it do come here!

For some reason the areas I have dwelt in have been periodically flooded with refugees. We got thousands of "displaced persons" (DPs) after WW2, thousands of "Boat People" after the fall of Viet Namn, Iranian refugees in the '70s, Senigalesse, Rowandans, Sudanesse, Romanians, Croatians, all of them fleeing situations they never anticipated and could not cope with. Then we complain because the government can not close out borders to keep out the millions from Central America who live in what we would consider permenent SHTF crisis and are coming here to escape it as if they shold sit and watch their children die while their "governments improve" or the "people force change".

It is called migration and it has been happening since the first Neanderthal saw the first Cromagnion walk across a pass in the Cacussas mountains. It is why many of us call ourselves Anglo-Saxons instead of Celts and Americans instead of Cherokee, Souix, Apachee and Shawnee. It is why we all speak the same root language that came ,from all places, the south Asian steppes. SHTF for everyone, and life changed "long term".

We call it SHTF and discuss the senerios, then we claim we can not imagine it happening to us, when 3/4 of the world population lives daily as we fear to live, and can not imagine living, for more than 2 weeks.

The statement that one would NOT WANT TO LIVE through a more drastic incident is a shock for me. Are we talking about loss of will to live if the power goes out for a year? Are we just saying we would not enjoy it? Is the real ammo stockpile just one bullet for each family member, for use when the tolit paper runs out? In two generations the ability to improvise and cope with any hardship has been conditioned out of modern people.

What would I do about my family in that situation? Espically regarding med care? Where has everyone been? Out stuffing BOBs and BOVs and buying AR rifles instead of training for first aid, hooking up with medically trained people and stockpiling meds as well as ammo?

This is the reason many of us stress networking and training and group building efforts before the incident instead of the prevelent trend of parinoid OPSEC and lone wolf shoot'em and loot'em while you run through the national forest approach. There will be about 15 people heading for my place if things ever do fall apart, and far from being overwhelmed or overburdened, I will be happy to see every one of them.

I am shocked at this thread, and some of the responses.

[hunter63]

To me, it's that balance (piece of mind) that's hard to achieve.
There are so many layers to it--present vs future...certain vs. probable vs. least likely..."living" life vs. preparing to survive...on and on.
No doubt money helps to diffuse some fears but a pragmatic mind set in sorting it all out is much more important, IMO. And action. Start somewhere...anywhere...and build from there. I've discovered that thinking about a task is more overwhelming than actually tackling it.

I agree with this statement, thanks for posting.

[Sourdough]

When you really get down to it and push it out past a month. Alot is lost and I realize it...Do we survive?...Sure, but it is beyond any preparedness I have read here or anywhere else.

I (With all respect) must disagree. But I do like this thread and hope it get legs.

[BENESSE]

The statement that one would NOT WANT TO LIVE through a more drastic incident is a shock for me. Are we talking about loss of will to live if the power goes out for a year? Are we just saying we would not enjoy it? Is the real ammo stockpile just one bullet for each family member, for use when the tolit paper runs out? In two generations the ability to improvise and cope with any hardship has been conditioned out of modern people.
I am shocked at this thread, and some of the responses.

My take on what people have said has not been the same as yours, kyrat.
I think people prepare for for whatever they can, for as long as they can. The frustration only comes when one is clearly not able to do what one thinks it's necessary.
As far as the will to survive anything, well...it's hardwired in our DNA regardless of what we say now. When the time comes, most will do whatever it takes to make it and a few will perhaps put a bullet through their head, jump out the window or go down with the ship, because to them, life at any cost and under any circumstance is not worth living. History has borne that out--from natural disasters, wars, occupations, concentration camps, the Titanic, WTC, illnesses, on and on. Either choice is hard, no choice is wrong.

No one knows for sure, not even you.

[Sourdough]

This thread reminds me how short term the America Memory is. Or the British for that matter.

I am shocked at this thread, and some of the responses.

We will have NO More of that type of talk: Please join hands with me, sway slowly side to side, and sing: "Everything is beautiful in it's own way. There Is none so Blind as He who will not see".

[Alaskan Survivalist]

Cowboy, It may be difficult, even impossible. But.....you know you have to try, even with your last breath to save your family. The more impossible it seems should drive you even harder if you know how dire the situation may become. Having the heart to try is the biggest part of survival, even when all is lost.

[BENESSE]

We will have NO More of that type of talk: Please join hands with me, sway slowly side to side, and sing: "Everything is beautiful in it's own way. There Is none so Blind as He who will not see".

As long as the few of you can see, I'm sure you'll tell the rest of us all about it.

[Sourdough]

As long as the few of you can see, I'm sure you'll tell the rest of us all about it.

We are trying, that is why this thread has real value.

[kyratshooter]

I understand what you are saying B. and I agree that the breaking point for everyone is different. While one person might choose to live through loss of family, loss of limb, loss of nation and loss of possessions, others will plunge from their 50th floor office window before they will go home to tell their trophy wife there is no more money to pay the pool boy.

I have seen that breaking point several times. I have looked at it head on and made my decision to keep living, often from one hour to the next.

What is a concern for me is that so many apparently have made no more preperations than a BOB, and can not see surviving farther than 72 hours in a motel without room service. They have shortened their time for making that decision by months, or even years, by not preparing at all for any long term hardship. And that "hardship" is actually no more than "normal life" for most of the world population.

And they are regular participants on a "survival forum".

If one has not seen preps for more than short term on this site then many of the long posts and extensive threads we have done to transfer information have been a waste.

But now I remember!

There were all the short posts that stated: I need to get into that. I need to start that. I will do that when the income tax check comes in. How would I do this-that-or the other if I decided to start at some point?

Many did not do those tasks. They did not start, they did not can. They did not buy a few more ramen noodles than they needed each week, or the 50 pound bag of salt, or the Antibiotics at the feed store, or the personal meds they need for more than the next week. They read, and they comment and they talk, and that is all they do.

Personally, I have slowly put away a year of food. I have enough fuel to last the rest of the winter. I have a small generator for emergency use and alternative light sources and power if I do not want to crank it up. I have wrangled my way into possession of 6 months heart medication to add to my continuious 90 day refills. After the 9 months heart meds run out I will have about 3-6 more months before the "big one" takes me out. My goal is to have the family and the friends that make up my "group" situated and trained to carry on during that year. My legacy will be their preperation and the survival of my grandchildren even if it is at the level their great-great-grandparents lived in the 1930s rather than a "21st century" level.

And I did every bit of this on about half what the average person makes as income each year. I am a retired teacher living on Social Security and a whimpy little pension.

I know almost to the day how long my time line extends. Is that an advantage or a disadvantage?

Hopefully I will never know. Hopefully, if the New Madrid fault cracks the infastructure will be back in operation within a year. Hopefully, The National Guard medics will have my heart meds in stock down at the Armory where they bring in all those meals they stockpiled and the pallets of water bottles stacked up.

[Don]

Kyratshooter,

I don't understand your outrage. No one said that long term survival was'nt a possibility or that we shouldn't do what we can to prepare for it. The point being made was that long term survival is not as simple as loading up the truck and heading for the hills. Everybody has different needs medical and otherwise and there is no one size fits all formula for survival short or long term. Everyone is going to have their own set of considerations and trying to plan for every contingency is daunting. I don't see that as defeatist just realistic. I'll continue to plan the best I can for what ever challenges I think likely. No one can plan for every challenge there are just too many. The Yellowstone coldera could blow up, we could get hit by a gamma ray blast or a comet or an asteroid all of which would devistate the planet and overwhelm our preparations. A nuclear, biological or chemical attack if large enough would be very difficult to cope with. I don't doubt that anyone on this board could cope with the average natural or social disaster but somethings will require more. Banding together with friends and neighbors is also a prudent thing to do because we all have strengths and weaknesses. Where one is weak another can be strong. No one that I can see on this thread is advocating surrender.

Don

[kyratshooter]

I am not outraged, I am surprised, disapointed perhaps.

I am also very aware of the difference between short term, long term and impossible survival situations.

The impossible being the end of the world events that would actually end all life. Not life as it now exists, but all life. No one will get through that no matter how deep they dig or how much they stockpiled.

What has shocked me is the "hobby" attitude that has been revealed.

Is what we do a sport?

Is it a hobby?

It most definately is optional, because not everyone does it.

I understand that "everyone has a different level of preperation" as their standard, due to whatever factors, but the threshold of expectation seems to be shortening.

The only thing close to "outrage" I am experiencing is that it seems that some people log in and give advice as if they were trained, prepared and equipped, when they do not have more than a day of food in the cabinet or a singel bandaid in the medicene cabinet.

[Nutman]

I fully understand what CS is saying trying to make sure you got all the bases covered is overwhelming at times wondering if you have enough food and other supplies for the long streach i'm comfortable knowing i have food and water and other nessisities put back and am committed to keeping thing going for my family but at the same time always thinking have i done enough

[BENESSE]

Here's what baffles me and I don't hear that much talk about it. In fact, kyrat has been silent on this topic considering everything else he had to say. It's about people who don't treat their health and fitness with the same level of dedication as stockpiling food, guns & meds. In a SHTF scenario when your vital organs start giving out due to a life long abuse and neglect, nothing else is going to matter. You are not going to make it and your family won't have you around when they need you most.
So when I hear someone drone on about their perfect long range triple redundant preps for survival and yet they smoke, eat and drink entirely too much, carry more weight than the heaviest BOB, I have scratch my head and wonder about where they're coming from.

[kyratshooter]

That is a whole different can of worms Ms. B.

There are several levels of "fitness" to address.

Fitness by our national health standards means you will not last a month in a true crisis. You have zero reserves to draw on.

Then there is fitness by combat standards, which is more related to strength than fitness.

Then there is the level of fitness needed for long term survival.

They are not the same and I have studied Fitness for survival extensively.

My views on fitness would not be acceptable to most people that have been indoctrinated by the health and fitness industry or the military. I have developed my belief by studying the people that survived, the situations they survived and the way our bodies are engineered to survive. As soon as I speak them I am flamed, even though I have scientific and historical documentation for every concern. That is why I keep quiet on "fitness".

Long term health, organ duribility and lifespan is more associated to genetics than habit, except for smoking, which damages every system in the body.

Vices are a different matter, mostly psychological, and they will be addressed by the individual as soon as their favored activity/comodity runs out.

[BENESSE]

That is a whole different can of worms Ms. B.

There are several levels of "fitness" to address.

Fitness by our national health standards means you will not last a month in a true crisis. You have zero reserves to draw on.

Then there is fitness by combat standards, which is more related to strength than fitness.

Then there is the level of fitness needed for long term survival.

They are not the same and I have studied Fitness for survival extensively.

My views on fitness would not be acceptable to most people that have been indoctrinated by the health and fitness industry or the military. I have developed my belief by studying the people that survived, the situations they survived and the way our bodies are engineered to survive. As soon as I speak them I am flamed, even though I have scientific and historical documentation for every concern. That is why I keep quiet on "fitness".

Long term health, organ duribility and lifespan is more associated to genetics than habit, except for smoking, which damages every system in the body.

Vices are a different matter, mostly psychological, and they will be addressed by the individual as soon as their tobacco or liquer runs out.

By the time the stuff runs out it might be too late. You'll probably quit smoking when you get lung cancer, but why wait? It's tough enough to treat it now when all's well, let alone WTSHTF?
Whatever compromises your chances of survival--physical, psychological, financial, you name it, it's all equally worth addressing before you're forced to. If you want to pick and choose whatever's the easiest, then at least own it and don't sweep the rest under a rug.

[Trabitha]

I find myself thinking and trying harder than ever lately to truely be prepared. I am good for a week or a month. I am really finding it hard to grasp any longer term scenario. I am doubtful it will ever happen, but am amazed at how comfortable the thought is for some. I for one know it won't be so easy. I know that I have plenty of preperations and enough knowledge to get me by. Throw a family in the mix and healthcare for the entire family....My mind just can't grasp it. So if you smirk at me and don't share my concern, let's hear from you. I want to pick your brain!.......

Lord...can I relate. I chalked it up to being "new" at this and having so many different things to worry about. After a while though, I've begun to wonder if my feelings are more because after stocking or preparing for a few months...what are we REALLY preparing for? The fear of being that desperate or that removed from what we see today as "civilization" is almost overwhelming at times.
I've prepared to stay home for the most party, but the option of "bugging out" must always been in the back of our minds. THIS option is more than a little worrisome when you have family and/or children to worry about. Can my son keep up? What happens if we can't drive because the roads are packed? It can get you rather worked up if you try and run through all the things that can go wrong.

My way of dealing with it is to create a hobby that uses the same mentality. Backpacking/camping. Of course, I look out the window in days like today (constant snow) and the thermometer readings that we've seen this week...and I wonder if I even WANT to survive. LOL! BRRRRRRRRRR!!

I may have totally missed your point...and if so...i'm sorry. ;)

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

Lord...can I relate. I chalked it up to being "new" at this and having so many different things to worry about. After a while though, I've begun to wonder if my feelings are more because after stocking or preparing for a few months...what are we REALLY preparing for? The fear of being that desperate or that removed from what we see today as "civilization" is almost overwhelming at times.
I've prepared to stay home for the most party, but the option of "bugging out" must always been in the back of our minds. THIS option is more than a little worrisome when you have family and/or children to worry about. Can my son keep up? What happens if we can't drive because the roads are packed? It can get you rather worked up if you try and run through all the things that can go wrong.

My way of dealing with it is to create a hobby that uses the same mentality. Backpacking/camping. Of course, I look out the window in days like today (constant snow) and the thermometer readings that we've seen this week...and I wonder if I even WANT to survive. LOL! BRRRRRRRRRR!!

I may have totally missed your point...and if so...i'm sorry. ;)

You did very well Trabitha... Wow! the thread was meant to cause thought, and it sure enough worked!

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

This thread reminds me how short trem the America Memory is. Or the British for that matter.

Winnie is sitting in the middle of a catostrophic winter storm season, for which no one was prepared. How many weeks has that been going on now?

My regional governments have not been prepared for the winter blasts we have endured this year. Apparently we had winter last year and it was not supposed to return.

Hurricane Katrina still has almost a million U.S. citizens displaced from their homes. Is a 5 year stint as a refugee, inside the U.S. long term enough for one to endure. Apparently we have decided all have been compensated and no one wants to go back home.

We had a thread a couple of days ago where ther DHS/FEMA was buying food for 7,000,000, for earthquake survival and response in the New Madrid Fault area. With a 5 year span with no forseeable recoverey in New Orleans, what is the prospect for Memphis, St louis, Peducah KY, Louisville and possibly Cincinnati and Chicago if that fault rips again? Yet survival boards one and all were touting this as part of the large scale plot against us. Power and control over the people.

Just because you can not 'forsee it" does not mean it is not a distinct possibility. If one can not see long term problems why is one here? Anyone on this computer can go for two weeks without food. Most of us need too. Out little weekend emergencies in the woods are situations we should be able to solve with what is in our pockets.

If there is no need for long term preps why do we discuss them? Canning and drying food, gardening, homesteading, off grid systemns are just a lure to the board and no one is really doing that stuff? We are all just sitting behind a keyboard eating twinkies?

I have seen long term SHTF with my own eyes. It exists and it can come here. The people that have endured it do come here!

For some reason the areas I have dwelt in have been periodically flooded with refugees. We got thousands of "displaced persons" (DPs) after WW2, thousands of "Boat People" after the fall of Viet Namn, Iranian refugees in the '70s, Senigalesse, Rowandans, Sudanesse, Romanians, Croatians, all of them fleeing situations they never anticipated and could not cope with. Then we complain because the government can not close out borders to keep out the millions from Central America who live in what we would consider permenent SHTF crisis and are coming here to escape it as if they shold sit and watch their children die while their "governments improve" or the "people force change".

It is called migration and it has been happening since the first Neanderthal saw the first Cromagnion walk across a pass in the Cacussas mountains. It is why many of us call ourselves Anglo-Saxons instead of Celts and Americans instead of Cherokee, Souix, Apachee and Shawnee. It is why we all speak the same root language that came ,from all places, the south Asian steppes. SHTF for everyone, and life changed "long term".

We call it SHTF and discuss the senerios, then we claim we can not imagine it happening to us, when 3/4 of the world population lives daily as we fear to live, and can not imagine living, for more than 2 weeks.

The statement that one would NOT WANT TO LIVE through a more drastic incident is a shock for me. Are we talking about loss of will to live if the power goes out for a year? Are we just saying we would not enjoy it? Is the real ammo stockpile just one bullet for each family member, for use when the tolit paper runs out? In two generations the ability to improvise and cope with any hardship has been conditioned out of modern people.

What would I do about my family in that situation? Espically regarding med care? Where has everyone been? Out stuffing BOBs and BOVs and buying AR rifles instead of training for first aid, hooking up with medically trained people and stockpiling meds as well as ammo?

This is the reason many of us stress networking and training and group building efforts before the incident instead of the prevelent trend of parinoid OPSEC and lone wolf shoot'em and loot'em while you run through the national forest approach. There will be about 15 people heading for my place if things ever do fall apart, and far from being overwhelmed or overburdened, I will be happy to see every one of them.

I am shocked at this thread, and some of the responses.

Show me KY...Lol! I am not impressed with your words. Talking about it and doing it are two very different animals!

[Rick]

Well, just be shocked then. Everyone has an opinion and everyone is welcome to their own. You were oh so close but missed it by a smidgen.


Just because you can not 'forsee it" does not mean it is not a distinct possibility.

I will agree that anything is a possibility. Just not a DISTINCT possibility. There is a big difference in that little word and I think that's where a good many of us disagree.

[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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