Just 'Cause You're Born Here Don't Make You One of Us!

[Rick]

This is going to be a very interesting law to watch. Those cats in Arizona are pretty hard nosed. Down right obnoxious. My kind of folks!

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE70Q94G20110127

[BENESSE]

It's about damn time. Hope other states follow suit.

[Ole WV Coot]

Ain't gonna happen, elections too close for comfort, time to sneak in gun control again, can't afford to lose what is becoming the majority in many states. Cover your rear end is the primary objective and being "Politically Correct", another good reason to live in these hills with all the other Rednecks of which I am proudly one.

[Pal334]

Fortunately, They can not unilateraly change the law of the land on their own (they are not the legal entity that "issues" U.S. citizenahip). I do agree with their ultimate goal and wish them well in thier LEGAL pursuit of change

[Rick]

Come on, Rufert. Take a smell and let's track these boys down.

http://www.twitfall.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/funny_police_dog_look_crime.jpg

[Justin Case]

Not sure if it will go anywhere,, they have been trying to "Review" the 2nd amendment forever.

[Justin Case]

Also,, if it gets changed we may all get deported,, unless of course you are Native American decent ,,

[Winnie]

Come on, Rufert. Take a smell and let's track these boys down.

http://www.twitfall.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/funny_police_dog_look_crime.jpg

*Rufert* It's been a long time since those were tightie whities, aint no way I'm puttin' my nose near them thar garments.

[BENESSE]

Rick's thong once started it's life like that, I'm sure.

[Nutman]

If the parents aren't citizens and illegals then the kids can't be citizens i think the citizenships comes from the parents

[Justin Case]

If the parents aren't citizens and illegals then the kids can't be citizens i think the citizenships comes from the parents

all children born here are automatically citizens,, who or what the parents are matters not,

[Rick]

Justin is correct. It doesn't matter if you are here legally, illegally, on business or on vacation. If a child is born in the U.S. it is considered a U.S. citizen.

Section 1 of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution provides that "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

I obviously added the emphasis.

[2dumb2kwit]

So, if your cat has kittens in your oven...that makes them bisquits....right?

[Rick]

Wait, wait, wait, wait. This is a crayon. This is paper. I'm gonna draw you a picture.

[randyt]

I never could understand the reason for the 14 amendment.

[crashdive123]

I never could understand the reason for the 14 amendment.


In fact, at that time it was the well-recognized purpose of the 14th Amendment to vest the black citizens with only a short list of rudimentary rights. Those rights were:


To make and enforce contracts
To sue, be parties, give evidence
To the full and equal benefit of all laws and proceedings for the security of persons and property.

The harsh historical reality is that if the 14th Amendment had been touted in that day as a means of promoting or establishing equality between the races, it would never have been ratified.

Source: http://www.originalintent.org/edu/14thamend.php

[randyt]

thanks for the link Crash. I knew the intent but don't understand the reason. why not simply give the ex slaves and their children citizenship. there did not need to be a amendment to give others citizenship so why them.

[Rick]

It was created to nullify the Supreme Court's decision in Dred Scott vs. Stanford.

Here's a decent write up on it. http://www.originalintent.org/edu/14thamend.php

[kyratshooter]

The 14th ammendment is very clear and does not need all ther mumbo-jumbo of that "errant clause" link. This is a right wing website reading the 14th ammendment in the same way the left wing liberals read the 2nd ammendment!

If you were born here you are a citizen.

What I can not accept is that a family that enters illigally can not be sent back to where they came because one of their babies was born here, which is often the ruling of the immigration courts.

People all over the world have dual citizenship. So does the kid that was born here from illigal parents. Ship them all home and when the kid reaches 18 he/she can decide to return as a citizen.

As a sidenote, I have several friends from Europe and one from Canada that hold dual citizenship. Every one of them gained their status by serving in the U.S. military. I am almost as proud of their citizenship as they are.

I am very right of center on this issue. I actually believe that citizenship should be connected to national service. If you are born here you have the "right to access to citizenship" which does not become vested until you serve your nation in some major capacity. You EARN vestment of your citizenship.

You did not serve, sorry, you do not vote. Sick, halt, lame= Join the peace corps/VISTA. You were not in the military= How the hell can you be Commander in Chief?

But that is not how the document reads. It simply says if you were born here you are a citizen.

I can live with this one if the liberals will read the 2nd ammendment with as much clarity and sureness as they have in the 14th.

[crashdive123]

It was created to nullify the Supreme Court's decision in Dred Scott vs. Stanford.

Here's a decent write up on it. http://www.originalintent.org/edu/14thamend.php

Deja vu all over again.

[BENESSE]

I am very right of center on this issue. I actually believe that citizenship should be connected to national service. If you are born here you have the "right to access to citizenship" which does not become vested until you serve your nation in some major capacity. You EARN vestment of your citizenship.

You did not serve, sorry, you do not vote. Sick, halt, lame= Join the peace corps/VISTA. You were not in the military= How the hell can you be Commander in Chief?

I agree completely, and have believed the same for a long time.

[Rick]

I doubt any of of the recent Presidents were pulling the strings on tactical decisions. They may have established a political goal but I'd hope the Joint Chiefs were laying out the "how to" and he just gives the green light. I sure hope that's it.

[Winter]

It's unconstitutional.

If you are born here, you are an American citizen. If you let America's constitutional ideals run your life then you are an American.

[Rick]

Deja vu all over again.

My bed time is 7:00 p.m. I get a little goofy (ier) after that. Sorry

[Pocomoonskyeyes3]

G'night Rick, sleep well.

[crashdive123]

My bed time is 7:00 p.m. I get a little goofy (ier) after that. Sorry

I was just thinking it must have been that whole great minds think alike thing, but then thought ....wait....what?

[Nutman]

Well the law on illegals giving birth to babies in the U.S. should be fixed

[Pocomoonskyeyes3]

Well the law on illegals giving birth to babies in the U.S. should be fixed

I agree. There is a difference between someone who was brought here against their will (slaves) and people breaking the law to get here(illegal aliens). It smacks of rewarding criminals. While we're at it, why not give all murderers a brand new 19" HDTV with cable to use in their cells(heavy sarcasm).

JMO but there is a HUGE difference between those that this Amendment was intended to provide for, and those that reap the same rewards as a side benefit, because they break the law. I have no problem with those this applies to that are here LEGALLY, like work and travel visa's, as well as legal immigrants. Just the ILLEGAL ones.

[Trabitha]

This is going to be a very interesting law to watch. Those cats in Arizona are pretty hard nosed. Down right obnoxious. My kind of folks!

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE70Q94G20110127

I'm with you, Rick. Just wondered why it took so darn long tog et things moving with this after it was announced that the amnesty thing was being considered.

[Justin Case]

Its strange to me how some people expect the country to honor the 2nd amendment word for word EXACTLY as written , Yet want to "update" or speculate the meaning of the 14th,, The times have changed since both amendments were drafted,,,, They both are obviously out dated,, Weapons have changed, we have police and military now,, No need for militias, The 2nd needs to be amended, We have Immigration from Mexico now so the 14th needs amended as well,, The Constitution is just like any other set of laws,, They need to adapt and change accordingly with the times,, IMO

[BENESSE]

Its strange to me how some people expect the country to honor the 2nd amendment word for word EXACTLY as written , Yet want to "update" or speculate the meaning of the 14th,,

Because people like to pick and choose because they think that intellectual honesty is so inconvenient.

[Justin Case]

Because people like to pick and choose because they think that intellectual honesty is so inconvenient.

I guess so :)

[Pocomoonskyeyes3]

The Constitution is just like any other set of laws,, They need to adapt and change accordingly with the times,, IMO Careful, once you open that door you won't be able to shut it. Then it becomes so "Modified" that it isn't even the same anymore, and you have NO rights. This is one of those cases of "Be careful what you ask for....you just might get it, only to find it isn't what you wanted all along".

[Trabitha]

I think it needs to be taken into account that the "anchor baby" concept only came in to play in the 60's. Not only was it not "original intent" but we didn't have nearly as many issues as we do today with illegals flowing over the boarders. While the change made to the amendment was reasonable in the 60's, it's is not as reasonable today, given the abuse of the amendment that now takes place.

[Justin Case]

Careful, once you open that door you won't be able to shut it. Then it becomes so "Modified" that it isn't even the same anymore, and you have NO rights. This is one of those cases of "Be careful what you ask for....you just might get it, only to find it isn't what you wanted all along".

The gun laws were "amended" already, Hence "the second amendment",, why shouldn't they continue to be "amended" as needed,,? I am talking Amended per a vote.

[Pocomoonskyeyes3]

I think it needs to be taken into account that the "anchor baby" concept only came in to play in the 60's. Not only was it not "original intent" but we didn't have nearly as many issues as we do today with illegals flowing over the boarders. While the change made to the amendment was reasonable in the 60's, it's is not as reasonable today, given the abuse of the amendment that now takes place.
Thank you!

[Justin Case]

I think it needs to be taken into account that the "anchor baby" concept only came in to play in the 60's. Not only was it not "original intent" but we didn't have nearly as many issues as we do today with illegals flowing over the boarders. While the change made to the amendment was reasonable in the 60's, it's is not as reasonable today, given the abuse of the amendment that now takes place.

agreed,, The 14th amendment is too old,, It needs to be updated to meet current conditions. not unlike other amendments,,,,,

[Trabitha]

Actually, I don't believe it needs to "amended" again, rather it should be brought back closer to it's original intent. Basically back in the 1800's it was ratified for African Americans of the time in an attempt to address some of the injustices they were suffering. In 1866, Senator Howard clearly spelled out the original intent of the 14th Amendment when he said, "Every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons. It settles the great question of citizenship and removes all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States. This has long been a great desideratum in the jurisprudence and legislation of this country."
I believe our need NOW is different...but similar to the way it was translated in the 1800's.

[Pocomoonskyeyes3]

The gun laws were "amended" already, Hence "the second amendment",, why shouldn't they continue to be "amended" as needed,,? I am talking Amended per a vote.

EXACTLY!! Which goes AGAINST the original intent of the Original Amendment.Deciding Which type of guns or speech is "Allowed". Goes AGAINST the original Amendment meaning,purpose,and scope.

This is taken from something in the thread links, but is valid here .....

Even some decisions of the US Supreme Court, written long after the Court's early 14th Amendment decisions were rendered, attempt to paint a picture that the Supreme Court justices who lived during the Amendment's ratification were somehow confused about its meaning, but that they [the later justices] know better the true meaning of the Amendment. Such representations are legal poppycock intended to support a court's political agenda. All judges know that one of the primary "rules of construction" (both constitutional and statutory) is that early decisions, made closer to the time of the event, are to be given far greater weight than the views of jurists who may have ruled on the subject many decades after the fact.

So the closer to the actual case decisions of the Amendment(s) in question have more relevance and bearing on them. So now, here we are 2 centuries later trying to second guess them? Doesn't work that way. So in a sense many of the laws governing these Constitutional Rights is in a sense Breaking the Constitutional law!

[Justin Case]

Maybe we dont need it at all anymore ? slavery is gone,, That point in history is no longer relevant. We are way paste those days ;)

[Trabitha]

Weeelllll...then what do we do about illegals entering this country and causing a ruckus? ;) Sorry...your avatar makes me wanna talk all southern. LOL!

[Pocomoonskyeyes3]

Maybe we dont need it at all anymore ? slavery is gone,, That point in history is no longer relevant. We are way paste those days ;)

Accordingly with what you are saying here is Maybe we don't need any one of them. Yeah ... sure.... let's just make this Communist China while we're at it.

[Justin Case]

EXACTLY!! Which goes AGAINST the original intent of the Original Amendment.Deciding Which type of guns or speech is "Allowed". Goes AGAINST the original Amendment meaning,purpose,and scope.

This is taken from something in the thread links, but is valid here .....


So the closer to the actual case decisions of the Amendment(s) in question have more relevance and bearing on them. So now, here we are 2 centuries later trying to second guess them? Doesn't work that way. So in a sense many of the laws governing these Constitutional Rights is in a sense Breaking the Constitutional law!

Yes, because the constitutional law was written for THAT point in time,, not now,, this is the 21st century,, Many things have changed, Constitutional law should change with the times, (it has too)

[randyt]

those who forget history are bound to repeat it. how about leaving it s it was intended.

[Justin Case]

Accordingly with what you are saying here is Maybe we don't need any one of them. Yeah ... sure.... let's just make this Communist China while we're at it.

The way they are written now,, NO , we dont need them,, They are useless,, they need to be updated with consideration to the world we live in NOW,, :) IMO

[Justin Case]

those who forget history are bound to repeat it. how about leaving it s it was intended.

Too Late.. The world HAS changed.

[Justin Case]

Weeelllll...then what do we do about illegals entering this country and causing a ruckus? ;) Sorry...your avatar makes me wanna talk all southern. LOL!

Toss the 14th amendment, rewrite it, send in the troops and lock our borders down and prevent further invasion.

[Trabitha]

Too Late.. The world HAS changed.

Yep, AND it has already changed from it's original intention, which put us in the situation we are in today.

[Trabitha]

Toss the 14th amendment, rewrite it, send in the troops and lock our borders down and prevent further invasion.

Wishful thinking. :( I don't know if I trust any of our current "law makers" to be messin' with writing an amendment...just sayin'.

[crashdive123]

Its strange to me how some people expect the country to honor the 2nd amendment word for word EXACTLY as written , Yet want to "update" or speculate the meaning of the 14th,, The times have changed since both amendments were drafted,,,, They both are obviously out dated,, Weapons have changed, we have police and military now,, No need for militias, The 2nd needs to be amended, We have Immigration from Mexico now so the 14th needs amended as well,, The Constitution is just like any other set of laws,, They need to adapt and change accordingly with the times,, IMO


Because people like to pick and choose because they think that intellectual honesty is so inconvenient.

I disagree. First let's look at the Fourteenth Amendment, Section 1.
Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. It has been argued by Constitutional scholars that the part that states "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" excludes those that have come to this country illegally. Since they are not subject to the "jurisdiction thereof" then any offspring should not be granted citizenship.

As far as the Second Amendment needing updating - once again, I disagree. It has been argued, and recently upheld by the Supreme Court, that it is an individual right. While it's true that weapons have changed, keep in mind that people of that time owned the most modern weaponry that was used by our military at the time.

If you disagree - why? Which weapons that are currently legal to own should be outlawed, and why?

[Pocomoonskyeyes3]

Yes, because the constitutional law was written for THAT point in time,, not now,, this is the 21st century,, Many things have changed, Constitutional law should change with the times, (it has too)

Well if you want to live in the country you are envisioning I'll buy you a one way ticket to that country. This ain't it. Here we have Constitutional Law. Constitutional law supersedes ALL other laws. It is what allows you to say what you want(Like speaking against the Constitution) Live where you want(assuming you can afford it), BE who you want. Even if it means going against everything it stands for.(which it seems you are suggesting).

[randyt]

Too Late.. The world HAS changed.

the world has been repeating history over and over..............

[Pocomoonskyeyes3]

the world has been repeating history over and over..............

And those who don't learn from it are doomed to repeat it (Paraphrased)

[crashdive123]

Its strange to me how some people expect the country to honor the 2nd amendment word for word EXACTLY as written , Yet want to "update" or speculate the meaning of the 14th,, The times have changed since both amendments were drafted,,,, They both are obviously out dated,, Weapons have changed, we have police and military now,, No need for militias, The 2nd needs to be amended, We have Immigration from Mexico now so the 14th needs amended as well,, The Constitution is just like any other set of laws,, They need to adapt and change accordingly with the times,, IMO


Yes, because the constitutional law was written for THAT point in time,, not now,, this is the 21st century,, Many things have changed, Constitutional law should change with the times, (it has too)


The way they are written now,, NO , we dont need them,, They are useless,, they need to be updated with consideration to the world we live in NOW,, :) IMO


Toss the 14th amendment, rewrite it, send in the troops and lock our borders down and prevent further invasion.

Kind of a Wow moment for me. I, along with millions of others took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. I repeated that oath several times (re-enlistment). While I disagree that it should be changed (IMO it should still be defended) I am curious to hear how you propose that it be changed. Keep in mind, that because of that simple document that was written not so long ago, that document that recognized the freedom that was the right of all, that document that laid the groundwork for the United States to become the most prosperous and powerful nation on the planet - Why and how would it be changed. I'm not asking to start a fight or flame war, but rather try to understand the statements that I quoted.

[Pocomoonskyeyes3]

Kind of a Wow moment for me. I, along with millions of others took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. I repeated that oath several times (re-enlistment). While I disagree that it should be changed (IMO it should still be defended) I am curious to hear how you propose that it be changed. Keep in mind, that because of that simple document that was written not so long ago, that document that recognized the freedom that was the right of all, that document that laid the groundwork for the United States to become the most prosperous and powerful nation on the planet - Why and how would it be changed. I'm not asking to start a fight or flame war, but rather try to understand the statements that I quoted.

Thank You Crash! I was trying to keep my military perspective/service out of it, as I know It would not have come across as calmly or eloquently as you have said here.( I probably didn't fare any better leaving it out anyways) But Yes I too have sworn many times to defend it as well..... to my death if need be. I would be glad to do so again.... Not for the "Piece of paper", but for the ideals and freedoms it guarantees.

[randyt]

well shoot fire if the constitution is out dated then the ten commandments are WAY out dated. I'm just kidding but there are some things that are timeless.

[Trabitha]

But, Crash and Poco...the mentality to toss it out and start all over has become a very popular one lately. You could chalk it up to people either not reading or understanding the Constitution or the simple fact that they don't put much stock in what it does for our rights as a nation. It seems in this case and many others... scrapping it and starting over looks like the better option to many.

Not justifying it in any way, as I am a huge supporter of our Constitution and what it stands for.

[Trabitha]

well shoot fire if the constitution is out dated then the ten commandments are WAY out dated. I'm just kidding but there are some things that are timeless.

;) I like that randyt. ;)

[randyt]

well ya know the world has changed since the commandments were written. LOL

[crashdive123]

I'm not saying that the Constitution should not every be amended. It's been done 27 times. What I want to try and understand are the two specific Amendments that were talked about "needing change". I disagreed that they were outdated and needed change - I want to hear what change those that believe it should be changed are proposing. I'm not looking for bumper stickers - but proposals.

[Justin Case]

I'm not saying that the Constitution should not every be amended. It's been done 27 times. What I want to try and understand are the two specific Amendments that were talked about "needing change". I disagreed that they were outdated and needed change - I want to hear what change those that believe it should be changed are proposing. I'm not looking for bumper stickers - but proposals.

I already said it,, the second amendment needs to have some restrictions../more restrictions,, There is no need for it the way its written,, there is no way in hell anybody or group can stand up the the US military/ Government,,, NO WAY,,, thats the part i have trouble with, Of course everyone has the right to defend themselves,, I am no saying that at all,, But,, one does not need to "Try" and outgun the military,, wont happen,, as far as defending yourself from another "person",, hey I'm all for that !! a 12 ga should work just fine ! as far as the 14th,,, what Trabitha said,, It needs to be changed to deal with illegal immigration,, should have been done a LONG time ago,, It was NOT written for immigrants from Mexico.. It was written in a different time period,, its obsolete, as far as the ten commandments,, well, I;m an Atheist,, so I wont even go there ;)

[2dumb2kwit]

But, Crash and Poco...the mentality to toss it out and start all over has become a very popular one lately. You could chalk it up to people either not reading or understanding the Constitution or the simple fact that they don't put much stock in what it does for our rights as a nation. It seems in this case and many others... scrapping it and starting over looks like the better option to many.Not justifying it in any way, as I am a huge supporter of our Constitution and what it stands for.

Only to people who don't understand the genius of the documents. Most people seem to have a hard time wrapping their heads around the consequences of actions...or in-actions. You also have people who want to suit their own agenda, and don't care about the consequences.

[Justin Case]

I'm not saying that the Constitution should not every be amended. It's been done 27 times. What I want to try and understand are the two specific Amendments that were talked about "needing change". I disagreed that they were outdated and needed change - I want to hear what change those that believe it should be changed are proposing. I'm not looking for bumper stickers - but proposals.

Thats all I am trying to say here,, I think it should have been amended a LONG time ago with respect to Immigration and guns,, (updated,, Not abolished)

[2dumb2kwit]

I already said it,, the second amendment needs to have some restrictions../more restrictions,, There is no need for it the way its written,, there is no way in hell anybody or group can stand up the the US military/ Government,,, NO WAY,,, thats the part i have trouble with, Of course everyone has the right to defend themselves,, I am no saying that at all,, But,, one does not need to "Try" and outgun the military,, wont happen,, as far as defending yourself from another "person",, hey I'm all for that !! a 12 ga should work just fine ! as far as the 14th,,, what Trabitha said,, It needs to be changed to deal with illegal immigration,, should have been done a LONG time ago,, It was NOT written for immigrants from Mexico.. It was written in a different time period,, its obsolete, as far as the ten commandments,, well, I;m an Atheist,, so I wont even go there ;)

I disagree with you, but I see no need in debating you, over it. The great thing about the documents that we're talking about, is that if enough people think you are right, there is a way to change it. The guys who wrote them, were pretty smart, and included ways to up date/change them. The ways are kind of involved, and take a bunch of people wanting to go in a cretain direction, but thats a good thing. Things that are too easy to change are often changed when they shouldn't be. LOL

[crashdive123]

I know that is what you are saying. As I said, I want to know how and why you think the 2nd and 14th Amendments should be changed. Those are the two you brought up.

[Justin Case]

I disagree with you, but I see no need in debating you, over it. The great thing about the documents that we're talking about, is that if enough people think you are right, there is a way to change it. The guys who wrote them, were pretty smart, and included ways to up date/change them. The ways are kind of involved, and take a bunch of people wanting to go in a cretain direction, but thats a good thing. Things that are too easy to change are often changed when they shouldn't be. LOL

Agreed,, It would have to be done with a unanimous vote. :)

[Pocomoonskyeyes3]

I already said it,, the second amendment needs to have some restrictions../more restrictions,, There is no need for it the way its written,, there is no way in hell anybody or group can stand up the the US military/ Government,,, NO WAY,,, thats the part i have trouble with, Of course everyone has the right to defend themselves,, I am no saying that at all,, But,, one does not need to "Try" and outgun the military,, wont happen,, as far as defending yourself from another "person",, hey I'm all for that !! a 12 ga should work just fine ! as far as the 14th,,, what Trabitha said,, It needs to be changed to deal with illegal immigration,, should have been done a LONG time ago,, It was NOT written for immigrants from Mexico.. It was written in a different time period,, its obsolete, as far as the ten commandments,, well, I;m an Atheist,, so I wont even go there ;)

Hmmm.... I wonder if North Vietnam...oops I mean Vietnam would agree with you about standing up to the US military? You think the government held back the troops in Vietnam? I'd be willing to bet they would hold back even more on their own people. Some seem to think that Afghanistan and Iraqi insurgents are doing pretty good too.

If American troops would ever go against American citizens I'd be willing to bet that they would find LESS sympathetic people here to help them, than they did over there.... not to mention the soldiers that would turn against the government.... just doing what they were sworn to do....uphold the Constitution against ALL enemies... both Foreign AND Domestic.

[Justin Case]

I know that is what you are saying. As I said, I want to know how and why you think the 2nd and 14th Amendments should be changed. Those are the two you brought up.

well because the 14th for example is being used in a way inconsistent with its intent,, It was written to deal with slaves,,, not Immigrants today,, The 2nd was to defend yourself from a corrupt government,, or the government,, That would be IMPOSSIBLE today,, you could arm EVERY person in the US with an assault rifle and they still would not stand a chance against the US military,,,, which is controlled by the Government,,, BUT, but but,,,, People should have the right to defend from their peers/criminals...... Anyway,, these are just the things i feel wken I think about it,, I am embarrassed to say, But I do not know near enough about the Constitution as i should,,,,, I am NO Lawyer . :) :)

[2dumb2kwit]

Hmmm.... I wonder if North Vietnam...oops I mean Vietnam would agree with you about standing up to the US military? You think the government held back the troops in Vietnam? I'd be willing to bet they would hold back even more on their own people. Some seem to think that Afghanistan and Iraqi insurgents are doing pretty good too.

If American troops would ever go against American citizens I'd be willing to bet that they would find LESS sympathetic people here to help them, than they did over there.... not to mention the soldiers that would turn against the government.... just doing what they were sworn to do....uphold the Constitution against ALL enemies... both Foreign AND Domestic.

'Zactly!!!!!

[Justin Case]

Hmmm.... I wonder if North Vietnam...oops I mean Vietnam would agree with you about standing up to the US military? You think the government held back the troops in Vietnam? I'd be willing to bet they would hold back even more on their own people. Some seem to think that Afghanistan and Iraqi insurgents are doing pretty good too.

If American troops would ever go against American citizens I'd be willing to bet that they would find LESS sympathetic people here to help them, than they did over there.... not to mention the soldiers that would turn against the government.... just doing what they were sworn to do....uphold the Constitution against ALL enemies... both Foreign AND Domestic.

Our Government would never let the people take control,,,, they have the power,, Military people are sworn to take orders,, Martial law and all that would happen.. again, welcome to the 21st century. :)

[Pocomoonskyeyes3]

Here is that Oath......

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God. Notice that the Constitution is named BEFORE the President, and the President is listed before "Officers appointed over me". This constitutes a "Chain of Command" in the ORDER to which their allegiance is supposed to go. Constitution, then President, then the officers.

[crashdive123]

Agreed,, It would have to be done with a unanimous vote. :)

Actually it takes a 2/3 majority of both houses of Congress (not unanimous) or 2/3 of the states request a Constitutional Convention. Then, it takes 3/4 of the states to approve it (not unanimous).

[crashdive123]

well because the 14th for example is being used in a way inconsistent with its intent,, It was written to deal with slaves,,, not Immigrants today,, The 2nd was to defend yourself from a corrupt government,, or the government,, That would be IMPOSSIBLE today,, you could arm EVERY person in the US with an assault rifle and they still would not stand a chance against the US military,,,, which is controlled by the Government,,, BUT, but but,,,, People should have the right to defend from their peers/criminals...... Anyway,, these are just the things i feel wken I think about it,, I am embarrassed to say, But I do not know near enough about the Constitution as i should,,,,, I am NO Lawyer . :) :)

I disagree, but I now know how you're thinking. Thank you.

[Pocomoonskyeyes3]

Our Government would never let the people take control,,,, they have the power,, Military people are sworn to take orders,, Martial law and all that would happen.. again, welcome to the 21st century. :)

Don't believe it. You would lose in which way the tides would turn. Soldiers Learned about Kent State. They are none too eager for a repeat.

[Justin Case]

Actually it takes a 2/3 majority of both houses of Congress (not unanimous) or 2/3 of the states request a Constitutional Convention. Then, it takes 3/4 of the states to approve it (not unanimous).

I should have said "majority",, ;)

[crashdive123]

Majority is 50% + 1. The Constitution is very specific in this regard.

[2dumb2kwit]

Our Government would never let the people take control,,,, they have the power,, Military people are sworn to take orders,, Martial law and all that would happen.. again, welcome to the 21st century. :)

Oh....you mean like in Egypt?

Oh...wait.....

[Justin Case]

Here is that Oath......
Notice that the Constitution is named BEFORE the President, and the President is listed before "Officers appointed over me". This constitutes a "Chain of Command" in the ORDER to which their allegiance is supposed to go. Constitution, then President, then the officers.

LOL,, sooo,, Its all still part of the oath,, It doesn't say "Constitution "OVER" the President,, The President is the " commander n chief",, he controls the power,,,, (military),, he can screw up BAD,, but nothing you, I or the whole country can do about it until after the fact.

[crashdive123]

LOL,, sooo,, Its all still part of the oath,, It doesn't say "Constitution "OVER" the President,, The President is the " commander n chief",, he controls the power,,,, (military),, he can screw up BAD,, but nothing you, I or the whole country can do about it until after the fact.

Believe it or not, military personnel are trained to disobey illegal orders.

[Pocomoonskyeyes3]

LOL,, sooo,, Its all still part of the oath,, It doesn't say "Constitution "OVER" the President,, The President is the " commander n chief",, he controls the power,,,, (military),, he can screw up BAD,, but nothing you, I or the whole country can do about it until after the fact.
No,the order is there, or "Chain of Command" if you prefer. It is One thing soldiers of all branches understand all too well. It was drilled into us from day one.

Well you have your opinion from one side of the fence, and I from the other..... We'll just have to agree to disagree.

[randyt]

we really covered a lot of ground here. I'm curious about something that may relate. Before we were americans, we were mostly english. Were the hessians brought in because some of the english troops had difficulties engaging in combat with fellow englishman.

[2dumb2kwit]

we really covered a lot of ground here. I'm curious about something that may relate. Before we were americans, we were mostly english. Were the hessians brought in because some of the english troops had difficulties engaging in combat with fellow englishman.

Most of us weren't around, back then. You'll have to ask Rick.:whistling:

[kyratshooter]

we really covered a lot of ground here. I'm curious about something that may relate. Before we were americans, we were mostly english. Were the hessians brought in because some of the english troops had difficulties engaging in combat with fellow englishman.

The English King was actually German. He did not even speak English. England has a long tradition of hiring mercenaries and they hire the German Hessians during that particular engagement.

We were not really "mostly English". There were so many Germans in colonial America that if they had chosen a national language at the Declaration of Indepencence it would have been German. It was not until WW1 (that was also when the Englsih royal family changed their name from Hanover to Windsor) that they stopped keeeping court records in German in upstate New York. I had to learn to read German to do research for my Masters because the accounting records I needed to access in rural PA were in German.

Almost all the groups of pioneers included Germans fresh off the boat. They gave us the KY rifle and our heritage as riflemen.

We were a British colony, so British laws took precidence, giving us our legal system and the language it is written in.

[randyt]

that's interesting, I didn't know that. Were there many germans involved in the drafting of the constitution and declaration of independence?

I knew there were germans and dutch in the colonies but I was under the impression that the majority were from great britain.

[Rick]

There was also a very large delegation of Swedish. The New Sweden Company was actually a trading company that was established in New Sweden (what became Wilmington, Delaware). That goes back to the mid 1600s. Two of my direct ancestors were there and arrived aboard the Charitas from Stockholm in 1641. So the colonies were very much a melting pot even at the start of the country.

[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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губе (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/279225)Deni (http://gascautery.ru/t/850534)маÑ�Ñ‚ (http://gashbucket.ru/t/422480)Vict (http://gasreturn.ru/t/850084)Carr (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/559583)юнке (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/856958)ХаÑ�Ñ� (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/816214)Ð*оди (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/675556)Ross (http://geartreating.ru/t/662558)Ecli (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/568715)Ð�рти (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/559153)Sign (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/559825)Diad (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/139722)Ñ�ерт (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/139785)Ñ�ерт (http://getthebounce.ru/t/138503)
ремо (http://habeascorpus.ru/t/672986)Hono (http://habituate.ru/t/759186)Doct (http://hackedbolt.ru/t/356793)Кубл (http://hackworker.ru/t/677615)�ммо (http://hadronicannihilation.ru/t/676730)��ау (http://haemagglutinin.ru/t/674059)Wins (http://hailsquall.ru/t/143042)�ерт (http://hairysphere.ru/t/470277)Rexo (http://halforderfringe.ru/t/561468)Nive (http://halfsiblings.ru/t/562461)Pale (http://hallofresidence.ru/t/562593)Sham (http://haltstate.ru/t/472626)OLAY (http://handcoding.ru/t/649923)разв (http://handportedhead.ru/t/851917)Kera (http://handradar.ru/t/561878)
Ahav (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/138378)Nico (http://hangonpart.ru/t/448107)Line (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/557053)Wind (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/395311)�оде (http://hardasiron.ru/t/479580)Push (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/566732)Nigh (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/567335)Omsa (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/141085)fade (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/601365)Benn (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/527862)Make (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/168104)XVII (http://headregulator.ru/t/479331)(МИФ (http://heartofgold.ru/t/760818)�ерт (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/395727)Халт (http://heatinggas.ru/t/812543)
Ð*рон (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/686943)Plan (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/602710)grey (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/601582)плаÑ� (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/606233)Соде (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/603268)Glob (http://jobstress.ru/t/603253)Koff (http://jogformation.ru/t/608026)друг (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/672566)Марк (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/787868)Chin (http://journallubricator.ru/t/534743)Nobo (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/528918)Davi (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/514654)Марк (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/352247)Andr (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/351421)Rama (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/674104)
Izab (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/648842)grea (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/610104)Мак� (http://kentishglory.ru/t/672220)окон (http://kerbweight.ru/t/646920)золо (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/605737)Богд (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/478580)Jack (http://keyserum.ru/t/674918)Fuxi (http://kickplate.ru/t/158045)Zone (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/604993)мен� (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/605752)Zone (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/609058)горо (http://kinozones.ru/film/5204)Seik (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/610936)�ере (http://kneejoint.ru/t/605124)�ере (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/611951)
Naso (http://knockonatom.ru/t/607154)Zone (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/604933)Fris (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/663297)Иллю (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/1067712)УÑ�дÑ� (http://laborracket.ru/t/262515)Бого (http://labourearnings.ru/t/497504)Ð*удн (http://labourleasing.ru/t/672723)Rich (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/832022)горо (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/808742)Гонб (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/832298)Гурж (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/818866)Jame (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/509782)XVII (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/374092)Foll (http://laggingload.ru/t/478727)зачи (http://laissezaller.ru/t/487656)
Ð*оди (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/422765)Dale (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/373549)Vali (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/569618)науч (http://lamphouse.ru/t/737856)Wann (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/469312)Дубр (http://lancingdie.ru/t/375302)Rabi (http://landingdoor.ru/t/595459)иллю (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/761502)Ñ�бор (http://landreform.ru/t/760132)Цочн (http://landuseratio.ru/t/727349)(МИФ (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/760848)плаÑ� (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1161598)ножк (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/1163655)меÑ�Ñ� (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/908)Nurs (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/590881)

[yellowcab]

XVII (http://laterevent.ru/shop/1178598)Nard (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/452347)Stie (http://layabout.ru/shop/453287)Wilf (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/600011)1000 (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/106094)Форм (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/465889)конц (http://leaveword.ru/shop/466218)2300 (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/269715)�рти (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/575717)Соде (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/268350)Турц (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/268823)�рти (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/576256)ESCO (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/575929)Pion (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/612260)TOYO (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/614273)
мета (http://manualchoke.ru/shop/598808)Во�п (http://medinfobooks.ru/book/1846)Midw (http://mp3lists.ru/item/5204)Мак� (http://nameresolution.ru/shop/1042062)Book (http://naphtheneseries.ru/shop/181616)Tref (http://narrowmouthed.ru/shop/461746)Бары (http://nationalcensus.ru/shop/1055825)ин�т (http://naturalfunctor.ru/shop/501649)Кита (http://navelseed.ru/shop/102927)диза (http://neatplaster.ru/shop/455347)Wind (http://necroticcaries.ru/shop/178304)Toki (http://negativefibration.ru/shop/520795)Wind (http://neighbouringrights.ru/shop/639917)Boom (http://objectmodule.ru/shop/306129)Vale (http://observationballoon.ru/shop/10363)
капю (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/102125)Bata (http://oceanmining.ru)Pedi (http://octupolephonon.ru)аппа (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/148966)Vale (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/203009)угол (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/150013)ЛитÐ* (http://onesticket.ru/shop/580084)Гама (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/582366)Харч (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/684472)ЛитÐ* (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/683790)Sigo (http://palmberry.ru/shop/579241)Pink (http://papercoating.ru/shop/583828)ЛитÐ* (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/689353)Фоми (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1168717)печа (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1168747)
Chri (http://partfamily.ru/shop/1173752)пере (http://partialmajorant.ru/shop/1172689)Стро (http://quadrupleworm.ru/shop/1542797)Грек (http://qualitybooster.ru/shop/1538319)Пил� (http://quasimoney.ru/shop/596022)Пушк (http://quenchedspark.ru/shop/599209)и�ку (http://quodrecuperet.ru/shop/1072596)руко (http://rabbetledge.ru/shop/1074744)Edwi (http://radialchaser.ru/shop/337771)Prim (http://radiationestimator.ru/shop/510280)Кути (http://railwaybridge.ru/shop/619486)Came (http://randomcoloration.ru/shop/517916)Davi (http://rapidgrowth.ru/shop/914442)Дюри (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru/shop/1082734)Маль (http://reachthroughregion.ru/shop/347873)
BAFT (http://readingmagnifier.ru/shop/514458)Sick (http://rearchain.ru/shop/733205)каме (http://recessioncone.ru/shop/640395)рефе (http://recordedassignment.ru/shop/1021493)Хаба (http://rectifiersubstation.ru/shop/1054619)авто (http://redemptionvalue.ru/shop/1063293)Угро (http://reducingflange.ru/shop/1680840)syst (http://referenceantigen.ru/shop/1693782)Козы (http://regeneratedprotein.ru/shop/1764677)Бали (http://reinvestmentplan.ru/shop/1774943)118x (http://safedrilling.ru/shop/1819206)Птен (http://sagprofile.ru/shop/1057334)Gamb (http://salestypelease.ru/shop/1849504)Боча (http://samplinginterval.ru/shop/1875853)Бирг (http://satellitehydrology.ru/shop/1481678)
Прон (http://scarcecommodity.ru/shop/1493492)Caro (http://scrapermat.ru/shop/1481549)авто (http://screwingunit.ru/shop/1495130)Сунд (http://seawaterpump.ru/shop/1560426)Sacr (http://secondaryblock.ru/shop/1417683)дет� (http://secularclergy.ru/shop/1492134)Каме (http://seismicefficiency.ru/shop/338740)Каба (http://selectivediffuser.ru/shop/400743)Manf (http://semiasphalticflux.ru/shop/402539)�олн (http://semifinishmachining.ru/shop/1687848)ме�� (http://spicetrade.ru/spice_zakaz/908)ме�� (http://spysale.ru/spy_zakaz/908)ме�� (http://stungun.ru/stun_zakaz/908)Emma (http://tacticaldiameter.ru/shop/483797)Jose (http://tailstockcenter.ru/shop/491311)
авто (http://tamecurve.ru/shop/499214)Шаро (http://tapecorrection.ru/shop/502171)Roll (http://tappingchuck.ru/shop/488588)Camb (http://taskreasoning.ru/shop/499995)Коле (http://technicalgrade.ru/shop/1822778)мышо (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru/shop/1881344)Поле (http://telescopicdamper.ru/shop/1902132)�ику (http://temperateclimate.ru/shop/784864)Caro (http://temperedmeasure.ru/shop/402523)Бе�е (http://tenementbuilding.ru/shop/981583)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)Фаде (http://ultramaficrock.ru/shop/981973)Тек� (http://ultraviolettesting.ru/shop/484100)

[yellowcab]

инфо (http://audiobookkeeper.ru)инфо (http://cottagenet.ru)инфо (http://eyesvision.ru)инфо (http://eyesvisions.com)инфо (http://factoringfee.ru)инфо (http://filmzones.ru)инфо (http://gadwall.ru)инфо (http://gaffertape.ru)инфо (http://gageboard.ru)инфо (http://gagrule.ru)инфо (http://gallduct.ru)инфо (http://galvanometric.ru)инфо (http://gangforeman.ru)инфо (http://gangwayplatform.ru)инфо (http://garbagechute.ru)
инфо (http://gardeningleave.ru)инфо (http://gascautery.ru)инфо (http://gashbucket.ru)инфо (http://gasreturn.ru)инфо (http://gatedsweep.ru)инфо (http://gaugemodel.ru)инфо (http://gaussianfilter.ru)инфо (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru)инфо (http://geartreating.ru)инфо (http://generalizedanalysis.ru)инфо (http://generalprovisions.ru)инфо (http://geophysicalprobe.ru)инфо (http://geriatricnurse.ru)инфо (http://getintoaflap.ru)инфо (http://getthebounce.ru)
инфо (http://habeascorpus.ru)инфо (http://habituate.ru)инфо (http://hackedbolt.ru)инфо (http://hackworker.ru)инфо (http://hadronicannihilation.ru)инфо (http://haemagglutinin.ru)инфо (http://hailsquall.ru)инфо (http://hairysphere.ru)инфо (http://halforderfringe.ru)инфо (http://halfsiblings.ru)инфо (http://hallofresidence.ru)инфо (http://haltstate.ru)инфо (http://handcoding.ru)инфо (http://handportedhead.ru)инфо (http://handradar.ru)
инфо (http://handsfreetelephone.ru)инфо (http://hangonpart.ru)инфо (http://haphazardwinding.ru)инфо (http://hardalloyteeth.ru)инфо (http://hardasiron.ru)инфо (http://hardenedconcrete.ru)инфо (http://harmonicinteraction.ru)инфо (http://hartlaubgoose.ru)инфо (http://hatchholddown.ru)инфо (http://haveafinetime.ru)инфо (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru)инфо (http://headregulator.ru)инфо (http://heartofgold.ru)инфо (http://heatageingresistance.ru)инфо (http://heatinggas.ru)
инфо (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru)инфо (http://jacketedwall.ru)инфо (http://japanesecedar.ru)инфо (http://jibtypecrane.ru)инфо (http://jobabandonment.ru)инфо (http://jobstress.ru)инфо (http://jogformation.ru)инфо (http://jointcapsule.ru)инфо (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru)инфо (http://journallubricator.ru)инфо (http://juicecatcher.ru)инфо (http://junctionofchannels.ru)инфо (http://justiciablehomicide.ru)инфо (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru)инфо (http://kaposidisease.ru)
инфо (http://keepagoodoffing.ru)инфо (http://keepsmthinhand.ru)инфо (http://kentishglory.ru)инфо (http://kerbweight.ru)инфо (http://kerrrotation.ru)инфо (http://keymanassurance.ru)инфо (http://keyserum.ru)инфо (http://kickplate.ru)инфо (http://killthefattedcalf.ru)инфо (http://kilowattsecond.ru)инфо (http://kingweakfish.ru)инйо (http://kinozones.ru)инфо (http://kleinbottle.ru)инфо (http://kneejoint.ru)инфо (http://knifesethouse.ru)
инфо (http://knockonatom.ru)инфо (http://knowledgestate.ru)инфо (http://kondoferromagnet.ru)инфо (http://labeledgraph.ru)инфо (http://laborracket.ru)инфо (http://labourearnings.ru)инфо (http://labourleasing.ru)инфо (http://laburnumtree.ru)инфо (http://lacingcourse.ru)инфо (http://lacrimalpoint.ru)инфо (http://lactogenicfactor.ru)инфо (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru)инфо (http://ladletreatediron.ru)инфо (http://laggingload.ru)инфо (http://laissezaller.ru)
инфо (http://lambdatransition.ru)инфо (http://laminatedmaterial.ru)инфо (http://lammasshoot.ru)инфо (http://lamphouse.ru)инфо (http://lancecorporal.ru)инфо (http://lancingdie.ru)инфо (http://landingdoor.ru)инфо (http://landmarksensor.ru)инфо (http://landreform.ru)инфо (http://landuseratio.ru)инфо (http://languagelaboratory.ru)инфо (http://largeheart.ru)инфо (http://lasercalibration.ru)инфо (http://laserlens.ru)инфо (http://laserpulse.ru)

[yellowcab]

инфо (http://laterevent.ru)инфо (http://latrinesergeant.ru)инфо (http://layabout.ru)инфо (http://leadcoating.ru)инфо (http://leadingfirm.ru)инфо (http://learningcurve.ru)инфо (http://leaveword.ru)инфо (http://machinesensible.ru)инфо (http://magneticequator.ru)инфо (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru)инфо (http://mailinghouse.ru)инфо (http://majorconcern.ru)инфо (http://mammasdarling.ru)инфо (http://managerialstaff.ru)инфо (http://manipulatinghand.ru)
инфо (http://manualchoke.ru)инфо (http://medinfobooks.ru)инфо (http://mp3lists.ru)инфо (http://nameresolution.ru)инфо (http://naphtheneseries.ru)инфо (http://narrowmouthed.ru)инфо (http://nationalcensus.ru)инфо (http://naturalfunctor.ru)инфо (http://navelseed.ru)инфо (http://neatplaster.ru)инфо (http://necroticcaries.ru)инфо (http://negativefibration.ru)инфо (http://neighbouringrights.ru)инфо (http://objectmodule.ru)инфо (http://observationballoon.ru)
инфо (http://obstructivepatent.ru)инфо (http://oceanmining.ru)инфо (http://octupolephonon.ru)инфо (http://offlinesystem.ru)инфо (http://offsetholder.ru)инфо (http://olibanumresinoid.ru)инфо (http://onesticket.ru)инфо (http://packedspheres.ru)инфо (http://pagingterminal.ru)инфо (http://palatinebones.ru)инфо (http://palmberry.ru)инфо (http://papercoating.ru)инфо (http://paraconvexgroup.ru)инфо (http://parasolmonoplane.ru)инфо (http://parkingbrake.ru)
инфо (http://partfamily.ru)инфо (http://partialmajorant.ru)инфо (http://quadrupleworm.ru)инфо (http://qualitybooster.ru)инфо (http://quasimoney.ru)инфо (http://quenchedspark.ru)инфо (http://quodrecuperet.ru)инфо (http://rabbetledge.ru)инфо (http://radialchaser.ru)инфо (http://radiationestimator.ru)инфо (http://railwaybridge.ru)инфо (http://randomcoloration.ru)инфо (http://rapidgrowth.ru)инфо (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru)инфо (http://reachthroughregion.ru)
инфо (http://readingmagnifier.ru)инфо (http://rearchain.ru)инфо (http://recessioncone.ru)инфо (http://recordedassignment.ru)инфо (http://rectifiersubstation.ru)инфо (http://redemptionvalue.ru)инфо (http://reducingflange.ru)инфо (http://referenceantigen.ru)инфо (http://regeneratedprotein.ru)инфо (http://reinvestmentplan.ru)инфо (http://safedrilling.ru)инфо (http://sagprofile.ru)инфо (http://salestypelease.ru)инфо (http://samplinginterval.ru)инфо (http://satellitehydrology.ru)
инфо (http://scarcecommodity.ru)инфо (http://scrapermat.ru)инфо (http://screwingunit.ru)инфо (http://seawaterpump.ru)инфо (http://secondaryblock.ru)инфо (http://secularclergy.ru)инфо (http://seismicefficiency.ru)инфо (http://selectivediffuser.ru)инфо (http://semiasphalticflux.ru)инфо (http://semifinishmachining.ru)инфо (http://spicetrade.ru)инфо (http://spysale.ru)инфо (http://stungun.ru)инфо (http://tacticaldiameter.ru)инфо (http://tailstockcenter.ru)
инфо (http://tamecurve.ru)инфо (http://tapecorrection.ru)инфо (http://tappingchuck.ru)инфо (http://taskreasoning.ru)инфо (http://technicalgrade.ru)инфо (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)инфо (http://telescopicdamper.ru)инфо (http://temperateclimate.ru)инфо (http://temperedmeasure.ru)инфо (http://tenementbuilding.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)инфо (http://ultramaficrock.ru)инфо (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)