View Full Version : big brother is flying high in your sky
mountain1
01-23-2011, 02:31 PM
these people are out of control. it's time for the american people to say enough is enough.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/22/AR2011012204111.html
crashdive123
01-23-2011, 03:17 PM
Aside from the provocative article title, I don't see a problem with the use of the small drone in this case. They had enough cause for a judge to issue a warrant. They had the place under surveillance. They used unconventional means to conduct that surveillance in order to protect the lives of LEO. They executed the warrant. Had they been using the drone to indiscriminately surveil the public, I would see a problem, but not with the way it was used in the article you linked.
Pal334
01-23-2011, 03:50 PM
these people are out of control. it's time for the american people to say enough is enough.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/22/AR2011012204111.html
What are you talking about? The tactics being described are the same as those that have been used for decades with helicopters and light aircraft. The only difference seems to be is that a drone is more economical, surely that can not be what you are referringto?
Perhaps if I understood what you meant by "these people are out of control.", I could better understand the intent of this post
mountain1
01-23-2011, 04:25 PM
did no one catch the "urban monitoring" part. i call that spying on the american people and i also call that TYRANNY.
"these people are out of control"? look around you.
so now it's "OK" for the goverment to have silent drones flying around urban areas and spying on the citizens? sounds like china to me. what's next? you speak out against your goverment and then you disappear (again china), your are already called a racist for doing such things.
these people are out of control because it is none of their buisness what i do...period...
when are the american people going to wake up and realize they are not slaves.
i am a free soverign individual. nuff said...
Pal334
01-23-2011, 04:31 PM
did no one catch the "urban monitoring" part. i call that spying on the american people and i also call that TYRANNY.
"these people are out of control"? look around you.
so now it's "OK" for the goverment to have silent drones flying around urban areas and spying on the citizens? sounds like china to me. what's next? you speak out against your goverment and then you disappear (again china), your are already called a racist for doing such things.
these people are out of control because it is none of their buisness what i do...period...
when are the american people going to wake up and realize they are not slaves.
i am a free soverign individual. nuff said...
Mmmm, ok, I guess that is one way to look at it. I don't agree with your leaps in judgement, but that is freedom.
Why did you take the phrase out of context? The article says,
"One manufacturer already advertises one of its small systems as ideal for "urban monitoring.""
Someone's out of control but I don't think it's the guberment.
crashdive123
01-23-2011, 05:10 PM
Good golly Miss Molly. Your leap to
so now it's "OK" for the government to have silent drones flying around urban areas and spying on the citizens? had nothing to do with the article you cited. If you want us to buy into your conspiracy theories you may need to provide evidence, not conjecture.
http://www.coffeehousemysteries.com/userfiles/image/Animated-man-with-spyglass.gif
If someone needs to go to that extent in order to spy on me, well, I don't care, they must have way tooooo much time on there hands.
Or they want a lumpy chair. Huh? Now you're worried aren't you?
BENESSE
01-23-2011, 05:27 PM
did no one catch the "urban monitoring" part. i call that spying on the american people and i also call that TYRANNY.
"these people are out of control"? look around you.
so now it's "OK" for the goverment to have silent drones flying around urban areas and spying on the citizens? sounds like china to me. what's next? you speak out against your goverment and then you disappear (again china), your are already called a racist for doing such things.
these people are out of control because it is none of their buisness what i do...period...
when are the american people going to wake up and realize they are not slaves.
i am a free soverign individual. nuff said...
Hey bud, I'm in the mother-of-all-urban areas, and I don't mind.
Don't worry about MY urban area and I won't worry about your wilderness area. Fair?
C'mmon over and get involved in our day-to-day troubles or myob.
Camp10
01-23-2011, 05:33 PM
They routinely fly helicopters over my property (and the land around it) in the fall looking for pot plants. I dont know why it would be any different if it was a drone..except they might catch me showering under the eaves if I cant hear them coming.
crashdive123
01-23-2011, 05:35 PM
You never know Camp ......... you might be the next Youtube sensation.:innocent:
Camp10
01-23-2011, 05:41 PM
You never know Camp ......... you might be the next Youtube sensation.:innocent:
It might get lots of hits, but it wont be a sensation. Lol.
2dumb2kwit
01-23-2011, 05:45 PM
They routinely fly helicopters over my property (and the land around it) in the fall looking for pot plants. I dont know why it would be any different if it was a drone..except they might catch me showering under the eaves if I cant hear them coming.
Now that's an image I really didn't need in my head. LOL
JPGreco
01-23-2011, 05:50 PM
You're right to privacy doesn't exist in when you are in plain view of anything, including drones. If they can see you with a helicopter, they can see you with a drone. Hell, the local government around me used google maps to find people with pools who didn't have the proper paper work and certificates to have one.
mountain1
01-23-2011, 05:57 PM
it also says in the article that a few Pd's already have them.
"drones raise the prospect of much more pervasive survellance". what part of "urban monitering" to you folks not understand?
why do you think the goverment has a 'right' to spy on it's on citizens?
this is the problem with this country is that they will role over and do what they are told like good little slaves and take it.
these things are not a "conspiracy threoy" they are happing right in front of your eyes you just don't care or refuse to see...
i believe in liberty, freedom, and soveringty. not a "ruling" tyrannical goverment.
i don't need the 'police' to look after me. someone messes with me or my family, they'll find themselves in a pine box.
thank god i live in montana where the men are free and not slaves. you live your lives as you choose and i'll live mine free...
MONTANA; WHERE THE MEN ARE MEN AND THE SHEEP ARE SCARED:)
mountain1
01-23-2011, 05:58 PM
they have no right to do that either. if someone wants to grow weed it's none of their da&m buisness.
mountain1
01-23-2011, 06:00 PM
Hey bud, I'm in the mother-of-all-urban areas, and I don't mind.
Don't worry about MY urban area and I won't worry about your wilderness area. Fair?
C'mmon over and get involved in our day-to-day troubles or myob.
i avoid the filth of urban speawl at all cost. you wouldn't catch me dead in nyc. if i were there i would take care of myself. don't need someone else to do it for me.
Do you find it the least bit odd that everyone that has responded to this post is wrong but you? And what makes you think Montana is exempt?
mountain1
01-23-2011, 06:02 PM
They routinely fly helicopters over my property (and the land around it) in the fall looking for pot plants. I dont know why it would be any different if it was a drone..except they might catch me showering under the eaves if I cant hear them coming.
sorry. forgot to reply with quote on the last statment with no quote added. about they have no right. which they don't.
mountain1
01-23-2011, 06:06 PM
Do you find it the least bit odd that everyone that has responded to this post is wrong but you? And what makes you think Montana is exempt?
no not at all! i just see it as a cross section of society today. people don't care about freedom or liberty. they would rather be slaves and controlled.
i actually find it very typical.
that's why i live where where i live.
most of montanas feel as i do. that's also why they live here.
JPGreco
01-23-2011, 06:11 PM
Show me the law that says I have a right to privacy when in plain view of anyone (I say anyone becaus government officials or private citizens can report my crimes). This includes if I'm beating my wife with the blinds open so people on the street can see into the house (assuming I have her gagged so she's not making any noise). Do I have a right to commit a crime that others can clearly see me committing?
Just so you don't link some conspiracy issue, its called Expectation of Privacy. In your own home, you have to highest expectation to privacy. Notice I said "IN". Not on your property, not walking down the street. Once outside of your home, your expectation of privacy diminishes because you are in plain sight.
How is the use of a drone to see whats going on in the neighboorhood any different than an officer walking down the street looking around?
BENESSE
01-23-2011, 06:12 PM
i avoid the filth of urban speawl at all cost. you wouldn't catch me dead in nyc. if i were there i would take care of myself. don't need someone else to do it for me.
Yeah, right, whatever floats your kayak.
You worry about ambushing hibernating bears, while we'll worry about the next terrorist F U challenge.
And don't call us...we certainly won't call on you.
Camp10
01-23-2011, 06:13 PM
If they can see you with a helicopter, they can see you with a drone.
I know that but when I hear a helicopter I can I can decide if I want to be seen showering or not. If they send in a drone, they've got me naked and singing along to Katy Perry.
@mountian1 Last year they found, caught and locked up the thugs that were known to burn camps and gate roads they didnt own. These two guys were growing on other people's land and had been a general PITA for a very long time. If there was no helicopter in the air, it wouldnt have happened.
Be careful. Just because we don't agree with your views doesn't mean we don't value liberty or freedom. And you don't have the right to refer to us as slaves or anything else. I promise you that there is surveillance over your house even as you read this. Any number of birds in space are streaming pictures and video to earth stations for people to review. And yes, it happens in Montana whether you like it or not.
Let me chime in.......... You'll often hear me complain about various methods employed by the government. Not in this case. Aerial surveilance has been upheld consistently by appeals courts. The reason? Your land or not, you don't own the sky above it. Therefore, if you're foolish enough to engage in illegal activity out in the open, where you have no "expectation of privacy," you take your chances.
Are there some exceptions? Yep, but they're not relevant to these facts.
JPGreco
01-23-2011, 06:17 PM
I know that but when I hear a helicopter I can I can decide if I want to be seen showering or not. If they send in a drone, they've got me naked and singing along to Katy Perry.
Well, in that case, I would recommend you write a letter to your local government asking them to affix a siren to the drone, that be sounded only when approaching your shower point. Or work out a schedule where your shower area will be drone free on certain days at certain times.
Or maybe invest in a shower curtain.... lol
BENESSE
01-23-2011, 06:17 PM
Let me just get this out of the way, once and for all...
Don't preach to me behind a fence when I'm on the front line.
JPG? You ever go to law school?
JPGreco
01-23-2011, 06:20 PM
Me? No, why do you ask?
Me? No, why do you ask?
You were right on. Good post.
JPGreco
01-23-2011, 06:27 PM
Ah, well I did take a 200 level constitutional law class in college, which is where I did learn the terminology, but thats the extent of my formal law education. My brother is in law school currently though, and apparently tearing it up.
I'm also not stupid and learn. Several of your posts in the thread about the school and the ten commandments were excellent and made me think.
He does that from time to time. That's why 2D likes him so much.
Ah, well I did take a 200 level constitutional law class in college, which is where I did learn the terminology, but thats the extent of my formal law education. My brother is in law school currently though, and apparently tearing it up.
I'm also not stupid and learn. Several of your posts in the thread about the school and the ten commandments were excellent and made me think.
You learned well. Constitutional law should be a requirement in high school and then again in college. Thanks for the kind words on the school thread.
JPGreco
01-23-2011, 06:33 PM
He does that from time to time. That's why 2D likes him so much.
Hahahaha, I was just reading the 2D vs Ken thread (well the first page since I'm not going through the whole thing). Just to throw it out there, I don't get offended when someone else makes me think.
And to be on topic. When law enforcement starts employing Xray or thermal technology to see THROUGH walls, clothing, into my vehicle, or to see anything else that is not in their line of sight is when I will be up in arms over invasion of privacy.
Oh, right. Like you wouldn't want one so you could drive by the girls' dorm. Paaalease.
JPGreco
01-23-2011, 06:36 PM
You learned well. Constitutional law should be a requirement in high school and then again in college. Thanks for the kind words on the school thread.
You're welcome. I will enjoy having a constitutionalist around that actually knows it and isn't a crazy right or left winger, or religous/anti religious nut job (at least you don't seem to be any of those to me yet).
JPGreco
01-23-2011, 06:37 PM
Oh, right. Like you wouldn't want one so you could drive by the girls' dorm. Paaalease.
I'm not to government.... lol
Besides, those kinds of images are terrible compared to standard cameras. Not that I would know....
He's not. He's just your standard run of the mill nut job. (snort)
crashdive123
01-23-2011, 06:40 PM
@mountain1 - I'm glad that you are happy living in Montana. It's a beautiful state - been there a time or two. Your independent living style is one that you choose, and I'm glad that you are happy with it. You say in your bio that you live off grid 5 to 6 months out of the year. I'd have to assume that the rest of the time you live?????? You can knock off your condesending remarks about others on this forum though. It has become boorish and tiresome. I don't think any of us need a lecture by you on freedom or liberty. I know darn well that I don't!
2dumb2kwit
01-23-2011, 06:41 PM
He does that from time to time. That's why 2D likes him so much.
It kinda tickles, when I think! LOL
condensing remarks
Those are kinda' like drips, right?
gryffynklm
01-23-2011, 07:15 PM
Mountain1
"MONTANA; WHERE THE MEN ARE MEN AND THE SHEEP ARE SCARED"
Do you realize what you are saying?
If that is what you like then well.......... it is best to keep that to yourself. No wonder he doesn't want arial surveillance over his property.
I'm sure thats illegal even in Montana.
By the way ever wear a Kilt?
Keep in mind that I'm just being an a$$ and have nothing better to do at the moment then polk fun at a Mountain.
Pal334
01-23-2011, 08:31 PM
they have no right to do that either. if someone wants to grow weed it's none of their da&m buisness.
With your permission Those are quotes that I will keep. (above) and :"MONTANA; WHERE THE MEN ARE MEN AND THE SHEEP ARE SCARED "
r0ckhamm3r
01-23-2011, 08:35 PM
Might as well look up at a jet contrail and shake your fist, screaming that it is trespassing on your property.
I believe that we do have a right to privacy, but the airspace above your property does not belong to you. Making such a claim is the same as trying to claim that you own the moon.
A helicopter or drone flying around taking video of my property is going to have a very boring afternoon unless they really like cattle.
Pal334
01-23-2011, 08:40 PM
A reminder may be in order. This is not a stereotypical "Survival Forum". Most folks are here to learn and share. Not many get involved in unsubstantiated "Conspiracy" or unmarked black helicopter theories. Please provide as much background in the future with your posts, that is what gets you credibility.
BENESSE
01-23-2011, 08:40 PM
Might as well look up at a jet contrail and shake your fist, screaming that it is trespassing on your property.
Excellent idea! Score one for you!
LowKey
01-23-2011, 08:50 PM
Or invest in a lot of camo netting.
oldsoldier
01-23-2011, 08:54 PM
@mountain1 - I'm glad that you are happy living in Montana. It's a beautiful state - been there a time or two. Your independent living style is one that you choose, and I'm glad that you are happy with it. You say in your bio that you live off grid 5 to 6 months out of the year. I'd have to assume that the rest of the time you live?????? You can knock off your condesending remarks about others on this forum though. It has become boorish and tiresome. I don't think any of us need a lecture by you on freedom or liberty. I know darn well that I don't!
+1 thanks crash wanted to say something but you said it much better.
Pocomoonskyeyes3
01-23-2011, 08:54 PM
The only Problem I would have with this is in regards to the Posse Commitatus act of 1878. I have a problem with using military Equipment or Personnel in Law enforcement roles. In regards to catching Illegal pot growers I have seen Military personnel using military equipment in finding and removing these plants and even one case watching the Prisoners while LEO's walked away. So in these type cases then I have a problem.... when LEO's Break the law to enforce the law(Oxymoron I know) No different than illegal wiretaps, or Coerced confessions.
BTW I have a source.......
http://www.dojgov.net/posse_comitatus_act.htm
SEC. 15. From and after the passage of this act it shall not be lawful to employ any part of the Army of the United States, as a posse comitatus, or otherwise, for the purpose of executing the laws, except in such cases and under such circumstances as such employment of said force may be expressly authorized by the Constitution or by act of Congress; and no money appropriated by this act shall be used to pay any of the expenses incurred in the employment of any troops in violation of this section And any person willfully violating the provisions of this section shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction thereof shall be punished by fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars or imprisonment not exceeding two years or by both such fine and imprisonment.
Yet the money confiscated still goes to the LE agencies in these cases......
Sorry but for some reason the link provided in the OP keeps popping up, then disappearing and reappearing Like it doesn't want to load or something........Well 20 minutes later it finally loaded.
For now, the use of drones for high-risk operations is exceedingly rare. The Federal Aviation Administration - which controls the national airspace - requires the few police departments with drones to seek emergency authorization if they want to deploy one in an actual operation. Because of concerns about safety, it only occasionally grants permission........I am curious if this was permission granted.
........Such technology could allow police to record the activities of the public below with high-resolution, infrared and thermal-imaging cameras.This would go past what is considered "In Plain View" And would be an illegal search, IMO
One manufacturer already advertises one of its small systems as ideal for "urban monitoring." The military, often a first user of technologies that migrate to civilian life, is about to deploy a system in Afghanistan that will be able to scan an area the size of a small town. And the most sophisticated robotics use artificial intelligence to seek out and record certain kinds of suspicious activity.This also concerns me as it might not be covered in a warrant, granted in a particular case. This would border on Illegal searches.
But when drones come to perch in numbers over American communities, they will drive fresh debates about the boundaries of privacy. The sheer power of some of the cameras that can be mounted on them is likely to bring fresh search-and-seizure cases before the courts, and concern about the technology's potential misuse could unsettle the public.
"Drones raise the prospect of much more pervasive surveillance," said Jay Stanley, a senior policy analyst with the American Civil Liberties Union's Speech, Privacy and Technology Project. "We are not against them, absolutely. They can be a valuable tool in certain kinds of operations. But what we don't want to see is their pervasive use to watch over the American people."Again concern is raised IF the technology mentioned above IS used From take-off to landing then Many homes would be searched illegally.
Now I Just know someone is thinking "Well if you aren't breaking the law, Why worry?" To those that think /believe that.... How would you feel if the LEO's were allowed to pick your locks walk in, and search your house without a warrant ANYTIME they wanted? This technology borders on just that. I'm sure to a sharp enough analyst, your Gun safe would give off a different heat signature than say.... your refrigerator. However in this case they don't even have to come inside your house OR ask your permission to look. I also see sharp Lawyers getting off some really crooked crooks off on technicalities caused by this technology. Now to all the law abiding citizens THAT should give you concern.
DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer. Just an average citizen TRYING To understand these laws. What SEEMS to be a violation of laws Might not be a violation. However to an average citizen like myself they sure SEEM to be.
themoondancer811
01-23-2011, 09:01 PM
Ok, so I didn't read this whole thread, nor do I want to, but I would like to say that people, country people, who run homesteads and are self-sufficiant don't have TIME or the CARE to worry about "big brother" and all this government bull.
I never heard my husband, brothers or father(I grew up on a dairy farm also) talk about these things, or even politics. It was all chores, and repairs, and chores, and a lot of nodding and swearing. The conversation in families are always about how you can tell a man by how straigh he plows, how tall and neat his woodpile, how sharp he keeps his axe, how clean his barn, if his wheels squeek on the tractor...how his corn grows, how white the fences are... Worries about government? bah.
People who truly "live off the grid" and homestead are usually far to simple of people to be bothered. It seems a very trendy thing, to live off the grid, but it's hard, hard work. No time to think big thoughts.
BENESSE
01-23-2011, 09:08 PM
Moondancer, I'm a city kid but grew up with the same values as you.
When you work hard for a living, you don't have time for counterproductive distractions.
LowKey
01-23-2011, 09:27 PM
The trick is to know when to pay attention.
mosquitomountainman
01-23-2011, 09:32 PM
Ok, so I didn't read this whole thread, nor do I want to, but I would like to say that people, country people, who run homesteads and are self-sufficiant don't have TIME or the CARE to worry about "big brother" and all this government bull.
I never heard my husband, brothers or father(I grew up on a dairy farm also) talk about these things, or even politics. It was all chores, and repairs, and chores, and a lot of nodding and swearing. The conversation in families are always about how you can tell a man by how straigh he plows, how tall and neat his woodpile, how sharp he keeps his axe, how clean his barn, if his wheels squeek on the tractor...how his corn grows, how white the fences are... Worries about government? bah.
People who truly "live off the grid" and homestead are usually far to simple of people to be bothered. It seems a very trendy thing, to live off the grid, but it's hard, hard work. No time to think big thoughts.
Whoa! No time to think big thoughts? For the last seven years we've been off-grid and provide most of our food through gardening, foraging, hunting and fishing and we actually have lots of free time in the winter and even when working a person's mind can be delving with other matters. The founders of this nation worked very hard and proved themselves quite adept at "thinking big thoughts" and they surely were not "simple" people. The largest detriment to thinking today is the television and computer games. I'd be willing to bet that most of those living off-grid use their time for other things than rotting their brains in front of a boob tube.
themoondancer811
01-23-2011, 09:43 PM
Yikes...mountain man, put on the breaks. For starters, I meant no insult when calling my OWN family "simple people." They are brilliant in every regard, but no interest in the big modern day politics/ government etc.
You are right, our forefathers did indeed create our country by thinking, "big thoughts." I agree, but from the people I know in my family (my father is now 87) were old yankees, farmers and simple folk. So from my specific life, this is how I have experienced it. Of course, other people may have different experiences. I have speant 52 years farming, I guess we just choose to live in our own lives.
As for TV and video games, I couldn't name one.
Edit- What exactly do you feel is WRONG with being a "simple" person? I am taken quite a back that you are so insulted by the phrase?
mountain1
01-23-2011, 09:48 PM
@mountain1 - I'm glad that you are happy living in Montana. It's a beautiful state - been there a time or two. Your independent living style is one that you choose, and I'm glad that you are happy with it. You say in your bio that you live off grid 5 to 6 months out of the year. I'd have to assume that the rest of the time you live?????? You can knock off your condesending remarks about others on this forum though. It has become boorish and tiresome. I don't think any of us need a lecture by you on freedom or liberty. I know darn well that I don't!
no. i say in my bio that i snowmobile to my house 5-6 months a year. 4wd the rest.
and you actually can't see my cabin from space on google maps. the roof and siding on all structures on the property are forest green and blend in with the surrounding forest canopy. i'm fully aware that that is old tech.
mosquitomountainman
01-23-2011, 09:51 PM
Pocomoonskyeyes: Excellent points you made there. I couldn't have stated it better myself.
mountain1
01-23-2011, 09:53 PM
Mountain1
"MONTANA; WHERE THE MEN ARE MEN AND THE SHEEP ARE SCARED"
Do you realize what you are saying?
If that is what you like then well.......... it is best to keep that to yourself. No wonder he doesn't want arial surveillance over his property.
I'm sure thats illegal even in Montana.
By the way ever wear a Kilt?
Keep in mind that I'm just being an a$$ and have nothing better to do at the moment then polk fun at a Mountain.
now that is funny.
it's a 'famous' saying from a 'famous' strip club here in MT.
i could send you a tee shirt. just picture a guy/sheep/stump. it is hilarious. and in some cases supposedly true. guys get lonely on the range. so the sayin' goes...
crashdive123
01-23-2011, 09:53 PM
no. i say in my bio that i snowmobile to my house 5-6 months a year. 4wd the rest.
and you actually can't see my cabin from space on google maps. the roof and siding on all structures on the property are forest green and blend in with the surrounding forest canopy. i'm fully aware that that is old tech.
Great. I'm happy for you. High tech, low tech - it's your choice. That wasn't the real point of my comment though.....the next three sentences of it were.
Pocomoonskyeyes3
01-23-2011, 09:58 PM
Not Necessarily so..... One Very famous politician was met by a farmer who changed his mind and methods in Washington....Even helped him get re-elected.....
http://hushmoney.org/Davy_Crockett_Farmer_Bunce.htm
mountain1
01-23-2011, 09:58 PM
With your permission Those are quotes that I will keep. (above) and :"MONTANA; WHERE THE MEN ARE MEN AND THE SHEEP ARE SCARED "
it's not my quote. it's just an old montana saying.
crashdive123
01-23-2011, 10:03 PM
It's a Montana saying, a Wyoming saying, a Texas saying, a Scottish saying (my guess the origins), an Australian saying, a New Zealand saying, an Army saying, an Air Force saying, a Marine Corps saying.....and on and on (Notice that it is not a Navy saying):innocent:
Camp10
01-23-2011, 10:07 PM
It's a Montana saying, a Wyoming saying, a Texas saying, a Scottish saying (my guess the origins), an Australian saying, a New Zealand saying, an Army saying, an Air Force saying, a Marine Corps saying.....and on and on (Notice that it is not a Navy saying):innocent:
Navy saying is something about separating the men from the boys with a crowbar....I dont really remember.
mountain1
01-23-2011, 10:09 PM
Ok, so I didn't read this whole thread, nor do I want to, but I would like to say that people, country people, who run homesteads and are self-sufficiant don't have TIME or the CARE to worry about "big brother" and all this government bull.
I never heard my husband, brothers or father(I grew up on a dairy farm also) talk about these things, or even politics. It was all chores, and repairs, and chores, and a lot of nodding and swearing. The conversation in families are always about how you can tell a man by how straigh he plows, how tall and neat his woodpile, how sharp he keeps his axe, how clean his barn, if his wheels squeek on the tractor...how his corn grows, how white the fences are... Worries about government? bah.
People who truly "live off the grid" and homestead are usually far to simple of people to be bothered. It seems a very trendy thing, to live off the grid, but it's hard, hard work. No time to think big thoughts.
Whoa! No time to think big thoughts? For the last seven years we've been off-grid and provide most of our food through gardening, foraging, hunting and fishing and we actually have lots of free time in the winter and even when working a person's mind can be delving with other matters. The founders of this nation worked very hard and proved themselves quite adept at "thinking big thoughts" and they surely were not "simple" people. The largest detriment to thinking today is the television and computer games. I'd be willing to bet that most of those living off-grid use their time for other things than rotting their brains in front of a boob tube.
as usual mmm thanks. their is alot of "down time in winter". i do care about many things and pay attention. it's my nature.
and to moondancer. we live the livestyle, not because it's trendy. because it's who we are.
i know very few people who want go to the outhouse when it's -30. we don't mind:)
nor do i know many people who butcher their own chicken for dinner at 8 deg. we don't mind...
we choose to be primitive because society sucks and we want no part of it...
Pocomoonskyeyes3
01-23-2011, 10:09 PM
Navy saying is something about separating the men from the boys with a crowbar....I dont really remember.
ROFLMAO!!!!!!! (Sorry Crash)
crashdive123
01-23-2011, 10:10 PM
Navy saying is something about separating the men from the boys with a crowbar....I dont really remember.
Navy mascot is a goat. Of course that's an Officer thing. Us enlisted folks were much more refined.
You'll get a kick out of this question and answer....
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070408060634AAly6I3
themoondancer811
01-23-2011, 10:11 PM
Not Necessarily so..... One Very famous politician was met by a farmer who changed his mind and methods in Washington....Even helped him get re-elected.....
http://hushmoney.org/Davy_Crockett_Farmer_Bunce.htm
Ok, ok guys, I retrack my statement in that not ALL farmers/homesteaders are like this (I don't think I ever said that anyway) but honestly, if you met the people in my community, and my family in the 60's and 70's, you would find the same as I have said. They just were not interested in those things. They worked hard, they loved their families and went to church. But again, I do not understand why it is insulting to have people in the world who have a simple life, simple people...I mean, that was a great pride in my family and still is today. We can't all be Davy Crockett nor do I wish to be.
Sorry for hyjacking the thread. ;)
mountain1
01-23-2011, 10:13 PM
It's a Montana saying, a Wyoming saying, a Texas saying, a Scottish saying (my guess the origins), an Australian saying, a New Zealand saying, an Army saying, an Air Force saying, a Marine Corps saying.....and on and on (Notice that it is not a Navy saying):innocent:
yep. fully aware. but apparently some folks aren't.
themoondancer811
01-23-2011, 10:16 PM
[QUOTE=mosquitomountainman;275571]
we don't mind...
we choose to be primitive because society sucks and we want no part of it...
THAT's my point, not everyone DOES it because "society sucks" They do it because they CAN, because we live in America.
mosquitomountainman
01-23-2011, 10:17 PM
Yikes...mountain man, put on the breaks. For starters, I meant no insult when calling my OWN family "simple people." They are brilliant in every regard, but no interest in the big modern day politics/ government etc.
You are right, our forefathers did indeed create our country by thinking, "big thoughts." I agree, but from the people I know in my family (my father is now 87) were old yankees, farmers and simple folk. So from my specific life, this is how I have experienced it. Of course, other people may have different experiences. I have speant 52 years farming, I guess we just choose to live in our own lives.
As for TV and video games, I couldn't name one.
Edit- What exactly do you feel is WRONG with being a "simple" person? I am taken quite a back that you are so insulted by the phrase?
"Simple" as in needs and desires is fine. "Simple" as in mental capacity I would have a problem with. I think most of my reaction had to do with the impression I got from your post that a "true homesteader" wouldn't have time to get involved in "outside issues" or have an informed opinion of those things. I believe that's a false assumption.
Congratulations and thanks regarding your livelihood. I had/have relatives in Kansas who farm. I spent most of my summers working at one place or another when growing up. They were some of the best years of my life.
crashdive123
01-23-2011, 10:20 PM
FWIW I took the comments to refer to a simple lifestyle. Not necessarily easy, but simple as in not complicated.
Camp10
01-23-2011, 10:20 PM
Navy mascot is a goat. Of course that's an Officer thing. Us enlisted folks were much more refined.
You'll get a kick out of this question and answer....
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070408060634AAly6I3
"All the good mascots have been taken." That's pretty good.
themoondancer811
01-23-2011, 10:26 PM
"Simple" as in needs and desires is fine. "Simple" as in mental capacity I would have a problem with. I think most of my reaction had to do with the impression I got from your post that a "true homesteader" wouldn't have time to get involved in "outside issues" or have an informed opinion of those things. I believe that's a false assumption.
Congratulations and thanks regarding your livelihood. I had/have relatives in Kansas who farm. I spent most of my summers working at one place or another when growing up. They were some of the best years of my life.
I agree, I am sorry if it did come out sounding like that, as it certainly was not meant to. Sometimes things from the brain do not quite type out the same. :) "Simple minded" and "simple folk" are two very different things. My father for one, left school at 16, fought in the navy in WW2, can't read much of anything but everyone here would very much love his company! :) He's a wonderful man. So I guess there is a strange line in determining exactly what "simple" should be regarded as.
mosquitomountainman
01-23-2011, 10:29 PM
[QUOTE=mountain1;275595]
THAT's my point, not everyone DOES it because "society sucks" They do it because they CAN, because we live in America.
JFYI - the quote "we don't mind ... we choose to be primitive because society sucks and we want no part of it..." is not mine.
I have different reasons for living the way we live.
mountain1
01-23-2011, 10:29 PM
FWIW I took the comments to refer to a simple lifestyle. Not necessarily easy, but simple as in not complicated.
live your live free, without worry. you've only got one and i'll be dam8ed if i live it for the 'man' or anyone else.
that is the point of it all.
most as a society in general have become a slave to the daily grind. so they will let the "ruling" class control them without question. it's all by design. and it seems to be working just as planned.
pocos post is right own.
crashdive123
01-23-2011, 10:38 PM
live your live free, without worry. you've only got one and i'll be dam8ed if i live it for the 'man' or anyone else.
that is the point of it all.
most as a society in general have become a slave to the daily grind. so they will let the "ruling" class control them without question. it's all by design. and it seems to be working just as planned.
pocos post is right own.
1. My post was not to you, it was to Mosquittomountainman, so no need to take offense.
2. I don't know why you have some sort of chip on your shoulder, but "the man" or "the ruling" class ain't hanging around this forum so you can knock of the histrionics.
3. While I'm sure that there are a few that might agree with you, as Pal334 indicated, this is not one of those conspiracy based survivalist forums. Lord knows there are enough of them out there already.
mountain1
01-23-2011, 10:39 PM
[QUOTE=themoondancer811;275601]
JFYI - the quote "we don't mind ... we choose to be primitive because society sucks and we want no part of it..." is not mine.
I have different reasons for living the way we live.
yeah i saw that.
that is bye no means the only reason we live as we do. there are many;
no one around for miles, we are basically camping everyday(except we have a cabin), SILENCE, just the general freedom do do what ever the he11 we want when we want. we have no bills except the mortgage. to all the uninitiated; just imagine a life without a power,water,sewage,trash bill, etc., the list goes on and on with the bills we do not have that most folks choose to have. we are independent and free of that. that within it's self helps give us the freedom we enjoy.
we are free from those bonds of society that most people have made themselves slaves to.
it is a choice we have made many years ago and will keep it at al cost...
crashdive123
01-23-2011, 10:42 PM
Keep up with your snide remarks and you'll be free to go elsewhere.
You're sipping the cookin' sherry again aren't you?
themoondancer811
01-23-2011, 10:50 PM
You're sipping the cookin' sherry again aren't you?
ME! ME! ME! *jumping up and down*
JPGreco
01-23-2011, 10:52 PM
Mountain1,
Wait, I'm confused. Maybe its my brain rot from TV and video games in my overly complex urban lifestyle, but did you not say that you simple mountain folk don't have time to ponder the complex inner workings of our facist prying government, yet you started this very thread, A thread about the government and how it is supposedly illegally spying on the lives of its citizens. The only conclusion I can draw from this is that simple mountain folk have just as much time to come up with crackpot conspiracy theories as us urbanites.
JPGreco
01-23-2011, 11:00 PM
You know, its funny, I deal with socialite snobs somewhat regularly. Never imagined there were off the grid snobs too. Guess what; Everyone is a "slave" to the lifestyle they have chosen. You have things in your lifestyle that you have to do or you will die (or at the least, be miserable). There are things that suck and things that are great about both sides of the line.
crashdive123
01-23-2011, 11:02 PM
Alright - a couple of things. Let's all stop the BS. I know it's hard to let some comments go without responding, but in this case I would politely ask that everybody let it go. Thank you.
Also - Camp - you attributed your quote to the wrong person.
Camp10
01-23-2011, 11:07 PM
Alright - a couple of things. Let's all stop the BS. I know it's hard to let some comments go without responding, but in this case I would politely ask that everybody let it go. Thank you.
Also - Camp - you attributed your quote to the wrong person.
Sorry..deleted my post. I shouldnt have posted it anyways. My apologies to mosquitomountainman.
By the way, gotta say, I like your sig. There's probably a survival message in there somewhere. Probably.
crashdive123
01-23-2011, 11:16 PM
No problem Camp. I understand where you were coming from.
My monkey got messed with once. But it was my monkey and I was the monkey monkeying with it.
mosquitomountainman
01-23-2011, 11:25 PM
Sorry..deleted my post. I shouldnt have posted it anyways. My apologies to mosquitomountainman.
No offense taken.
Pocomoonskyeyes3
01-24-2011, 12:22 AM
You know, its funny, I deal with socialite snobs somewhat regularly. Never imagined there were off the grid snobs too. Guess what; Everyone is a "slave" to the lifestyle they have chosen. You have things in your lifestyle that you have to do or you will die (or at the least, be miserable). There are things that suck and things that are great about both sides of the line.
LOL I think I have the "Best of Both Worlds" Just living a slightly Rural Life. Out of Town, but close. Good sized city nearby.
mountain1
01-24-2011, 01:01 AM
Mountain1,
Wait, I'm confused. Maybe its my brain rot from TV and video games in my overly complex urban lifestyle, but did you not say that you simple mountain folk don't have time to ponder the complex inner workings of our facist prying government, yet you started this very thread, A thread about the government and how it is supposedly illegally spying on the lives of its citizens. The only conclusion I can draw from this is that simple mountain folk have just as much time to come up with crackpot conspiracy theories as us urbanites.
nope that wasn't me.
but i do think that tv and video games rots your brain. when i go into town to see friends i make them come outside. i frankly can't stand to be in a room with the 'zombi box' on..,
themoondancer811
01-24-2011, 01:25 AM
LOL I think I have the "Best of Both Worlds" Just living a slightly Rural Life. Out of Town, but close. Good sized city nearby.
Seriously, at this point in my life, i agree. I don't think I will ever move more than a half and hour from town again. I am just too tired. I don't mind if I still run on solar, keep a small garden and my goats but nothing bigger. A vacation would be nice for a change.
mountain1
01-24-2011, 01:42 AM
Seriously, at this point in my life, i agree. I don't think I will ever move more than a half and hour from town again. I am just too tired. I don't mind if I still run on solar, keep a small garden and my goats but nothing bigger. A vacation would be nice for a change.
my wife and i have to take seperate vacations (our "vacations" are backpacking/hunting trips or going to see our familys-mine is in alabama-hers idaho). last year i didn't go anywhere. she did her annual 2 week wilderness girls backpacking trip with her best friend. this year she's doing the same and then i'm going on a 2 week solo traditional bowhunting trip for elk in the bob marshell willderness. shes also going to visit her brother in NC for a couple of weeks. i'm staying here to take care of everything. as she does when i'm gone. it's nice to have two people to split things up so we can still do some things. but mostly we would prefer to never leave the area. it's beautiful here with elk too but i just want to go hunting this year-there-by myself. just the same as she wants to go on a 80 mi backpacking trip with her best friend.
me me me jump up and down hooray...:):) it's all about planning...
plan and take that vacation! you'll enjoy it...
mountain1
01-24-2011, 01:53 AM
You're sipping the cookin' sherry again aren't you?
nope, i make my own 'spirits'. and i'm not drinking them now...
Sarge47
01-24-2011, 02:00 AM
Conspiracy Theory: I saw that movie; Mel Gibson was in it! :yes: For the record, the Feds have jurisdiction over every state in this country, including Montana. Forget the Pot farms, many criminals are now running Meth labs in our National Forests. Anyway, the Feds can fly drones over my place all they want; even bug the house...boy, are they gonna be bored out of their fricken' skull! Here's the thing, stay on the right side of the law & no problems! :bored: Remember, the laws are there to help you keep those freedoms that we talk about on here.
And a final "Sheep joke:" A city boy & a country boy was walking down a country road when they came across a sheep with it's head stuck in the fence.
"Man," the city boy said, "I wish that was a nice looking chick instead of a sheep stuck there!" :scared:
The country boy had a winsome look on his face & said: "I just wish it was dark!"
I also loved that Navy/Crowbar comment...really funny! :thumbs_up:
mountain1
01-24-2011, 02:34 AM
Conspiracy Theory: I saw that movie; Mel Gibson was in it! :yes: For the record, the Feds have jurisdiction over every state in this country, including Montana. Forget the Pot farms, many criminals are now running Meth labs in our National Forests. Anyway, the Feds can fly drones over my place all they want; even bug the house...boy, are they gonna be bored out of their fricken' skull! Here's the thing, stay on the right side of the law & no problems! :bored: Remember, the laws are there to help you keep those freedoms that we talk about on here.
And a final "Sheep joke:" A city boy & a country boy was walking down a country road when they came across a sheep with it's head stuck in the fence.
"Man," the city boy said, "I wish that was a nice looking chick instead of a sheep stuck there!" :scared:
The country boy had a winsome look on his face & said: "I just wish it was dark!"
I also loved that Navy/Crowbar comment...really funny! :thumbs_up:
nice!!! i like the joke. never heard it:)
but, the feds have no jurisdiction over any state. ever heard of the 9th and 10th admendment of the little thing called the constitution? the county sheriff has more "authority" than any dam& fed. the federal goverment was formed by the states. not the other way around. i'm all about succession, but i know it will never happen because politicians are cowards.
none has any jurisdiction over a human being. i am alive so i am free...
that is the problem... people think that other people have the right to 'control' them. i call that slavery.
the feds mean absolutly nothing to me. it's MY life leave me be...
we did it once we can do it again
but, the feds have no jurisdiction over any state.
I didn't know that.
ever heard of the 9th and 10th admendment of the little thing called the constitution?
Never heard of them. I'm really glad that you're an authority on this stuff! Can you explain it all to me? In detail? Statute and case law citations would be really appreciated.
I'd be really grateful if you would help me understand all of this. This kinda' stuff has always confused me. Especially that 1794 case, Penhallow v. Doane, and that other one, from 1819, Mcculloch V. Maryland. What were they all about?
Camp10
01-24-2011, 07:07 AM
My monkey got messed with once. But it was my monkey and I was the monkey monkeying with it.
It's not monkeying if it's your monkey your monkeying.
Oh, cool. Life is good again.
crashdive123
01-24-2011, 09:11 AM
Sounds like a whole lot of monkey business going on around here.
Sarge47
01-24-2011, 01:00 PM
We done lost Mountain1! Shoot, there goes our resident expert on Government covert ops, The Constitution, & crimes against nature involving sheep! I know 'cuz he told me so himself! :sneaky2:
I know what the Constitution is...a big 'ole sailing ship from the really old days! :innocent:
Why, he even knew more about the law than Ken! I can see why the Federal Government might consider him a "target of opportunity!" :lol:
See what I mean? Nobody ever wants to explain this stuff to me! : (
BENESSE
01-24-2011, 02:03 PM
Ken, these are very high-falluting ideas, they're afraid you won't understand.:sneaky2:
2dumb2kwit
01-24-2011, 02:48 PM
See what I mean? Nobody ever wants to explain this stuff to me! : (
One day...when I have more time...I'll 'splain some of it to ya.
OK?
One day...when I have more time...I'll 'splain some of it to ya.
OK?
I sure hope that isn't an empty promise.
2dumb2kwit
01-24-2011, 03:22 PM
I sure hope that isn't an empty promise.
I might have to do a little studyin', and you may have to help me with some of the bigger words, but I'll 'splain what they mean...as I see it. LOL
gryffynklm
01-24-2011, 03:32 PM
You see Ken, in regard to the Penhallow v. Doane case you have to look closely at the rhetoric in the opnening stateme...............
OOOOOOOOOh........................
Shiny...........................
What was the ques.........................
shiny....................
You see Ken, in regard to the Penhallow v. Doane case you have to look closely at the rhetoric in the opnening stateme...............
OOOOOOOOOh........................
Shiny...........................
What was the ques.........................
shiny....................
Thanks, Karl! That clears up some of my confusion.
2dumb2kwit
01-24-2011, 03:43 PM
I might have to do a little studyin', and you may have to help me with some of the bigger words, but I'll 'splain what they mean...as I see it. LOL
We'll have to take it a little at a time, so where would you like to start.
How about, how my idea about paying taxes and voting won't fly, 'cuz of the 24th amendment and the 14th amendment?
We'll have to take it a little at a time, so where would you like to start.
How 'bout we begin with, "We the People...."?
2dumb2kwit
01-24-2011, 03:59 PM
How 'bout we begin with, "We the People...."?
Good point!
'Cuz I ain't sure that all the votes are coming from "people", here lately. (Last few years, or so...at least.)LOL
Sarge47
01-24-2011, 06:31 PM
I think you guys might owe M-1 an apology! Ya see Montana natives do think they own the sky; check this out:
http://www.bigskychamber.com/ :shifty:
beetlejuicex3
01-24-2011, 09:46 PM
Question. Can they see anything with a "spy drone" that they couldn't otherwise see with a patrol car or helicopter?
I always ask myself about these things: "who's manning it and who's looking at the data?" It's not THE MAN. It's some poor 9-5 schlub like you and me who is likely underpaid and would love to make a fortune selling book rights and interivews to the press if something devious was actually taking place.
JPGreco
01-24-2011, 10:40 PM
Depends on your definition of "more". Any arial reconnaissance has the capability of surveying a large amount of land based on the optics it is equipped with and distance it covers. A drone may be better equipped than a helicopter and be able to see more. It can definitely see more than a person on the ground. However, it's still line of sight. A satellite in space is also line of sight. If I'm growing pot in my backyard, no matter how they see it (foot patrol, helicopter, drone, satellite, google maps), I'm still going down with no legal recourse over invasion of privacy rights.
oldsoldier
01-25-2011, 09:38 AM
We done lost Mountain1! Shoot, there goes our resident expert on Government covert ops,:lol:
Yeah dang it looks like I missed all the fun again!
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yellowcab
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yellowcab
12-10-2025, 07:17 AM
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yellowcab
12-10-2025, 07:18 AM
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yellowcab
03-10-2026, 11:33 AM
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yellowcab
03-10-2026, 11:34 AM
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